An informed source close to the investigation of the murders of the Coptic family in New Jersey has given me some more information:
The police and prosecutor are "very scared" of this case. The Muslim community in Jersey City is putting enormous pressure on City Hall to softpedal the case. Says my source: "They [police and prosecutor] want this case to go away quickly because of that."
Both press and prosecutor are hampered by general ignorance of Islamic teaching on proselytizing and conversion, and of how jihadists operate.
Of course, my problem with the police and prosecutor's reaction is that if this really was a Sharia-inspired killing, they are opening the door to more of the same if they do not handle this case carefully and thoroughly.
My source went to the Armanious house after the murders. The house does not appear to be of a wealthy family, and does not stand out in the poor neighborhood where it is located; this makes it more difficult to sustain the notion that the primary motive was robbery. My source saw that there was no sign of forced entry.
There are indications that Sylvia, the 15-year-old, innocently let one of the perpetrators know where she lived.
The police and prosecutor are "very scared" of this case. The Muslim community in Jersey City is putting enormous pressure on City Hall to softpedal the case
SO CAIR IS NOW PUTTING PRESSURE TO STOP THE INVESTAGTION??
Yes I would say to use your Second add rights and buy lots of AMMO!!
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength, Wisdom, Sight, and Courage to stay the course to FREEDOM to Destroy ALL Islamic Terrorist and ALL Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Open the Worlds Eyes to their Evil give the World Courage to Stand and Fight this Evil Amen
Start a Blog Storm
Robert Spencer should post the names, addresses, telephone numbers and e-mail addresses of the prosecutors of this case. Then everyone should start a blog storm urging people to demand that the prosecutors fully investigate the murder. Anti-dhimmis can "exert pressure" also.!!
We should then contact our favorite blogs and ask them to further the blog storm.
I agree . . . the muslim interests represent a minority. The non-muslim interest is a majority and it must be respected and recognized. We can exert our own pressure - the likes which CAIR will never match.
The investigators are in dire need of a mandated
'short course' on Islam taught by Spencer, Fitzgerald, Warraq, Pipes, Emerson et al.
That poor little girl, how could she know that some idiot would want to murder her and her family just because of what she said. This can not disappear from the attention of the public. It may be up to us to keep this story alive.
REMEMBER THE ARMANIOUS FAMILY!
E-Mail Hudson County Prosecutor
Edward DeFazio
hcpo@hcpo.org
I would love to know the details of the "Muslim community" putting pressure on the authorities. Who, exactly, and how? Is there an organization involved? Is it being organized through a mosque?
If nothing happens with this case, your source should do his best to blow the whistle on all involved.
Athena:
Jersey City is in Hudson County, NJ. Here is the website for the prosecutor's office:
http://www.hcpo.org/
There is a "phone numbers" link in the left-hand column.
And here are the phone numbers for the Jersey City police:
http://www.CityOfJerseyCity.com/police.html
The NY Post, at http://www.newyorkpost.com/news/regionalnews/38704.htm , quoted an assistant Hudson County prosecutor named "Guy Gregory" but didn't state whether his exact relationship with the case.
Herein lies the biggest problem - our Justice Department fears Islamist consequences while at the same time our government kowtows to CAIR as well as radio stations and other media outlets.
So this, what I am about to say, might be the right way for a solution. I'm sure most of you will say "we've heard this before" but believe me, it WILL work if we can get everyone to write to their representatives up in the House in DC.
I have written to Bob Goodlatte several times over this. If we can get the Congress to start talking in the lunchroom over the flood of letters that they receive, maybe then they will start to initiate laws against Muslims.
The legal credibilities of CAIR, for example, will soon be blown wide open. As you know, Andrew Whitehead, founder and chairman of ANTI-CAIR, is being sued. CAIR, in turn, is also being sued.
The prediction of the eradication and elimination of the CAIR organization, including its thug employees and followers and supporters of Hamas, are going to fall, but it will happen a lot sooner if we start writing our concerns to our congressional representatives.
We WILL NOT allow CAIR to dictate what we have to say about their precious "religion of peace." Call it what they may - and can someone please tell me why Islam is a religion of peace when 95 percent of all wars in the world are brought on by Muslims?
Here's the letter I sent off to prosecutor DeFazio in NJ regaring the Armanious case:
-----------------------------------------------------
Dear Mr. DeFazio:
Greetings from the state of Virginia.
While I am not here to influence your case, I feel that it is highly recommended that the investigation of the slaughter of the Armanious family be looked into as being a potential religious crime. Please continue on without intervention from the Muslim community in New Jersey. Muslims are a minority. The majority speaks. You must listen to US, the majority.
It is also strongly recommended that your team of investigators does not cave in from pressure from a self-penned "prominent Muslim civil rights group" called the Council on American-Islamic Relations. This group of Islamist thugs has had several officers arrested on terrorism charges. This group was birthed from Hamas, yet they are allowed to breed on US soil and provide hinderance to get our minds away from the facts that they are terrorist supporters. This group openly criticizes every single aspect of Homeland Security. They are vehemently bitter whenever they discuss "the Zionist state" of Israel - America's principle allies in the Middle East. CAIR astutely refuses to condemn Osama bin Laden as the executor of the 9/11 massacre here in our country. CAIR ridicules the US Government policies against Terrorism. CAIR is nothing but an ugly snake in the grass. Beware of them. They are experts in the field and find ways to make people apologize and "repudiate" away from investigations that potentially involve YOUNG MUSLIM MALES.
Do not cave under pressure and take your time with this case. If you cave in and hurry up the investigation, you are potentially opening up for more hate crimes from Muslims. Do not believe for one minute that these Muslims are peaceful. Do, however, believe that they are a highly organized and cunning lot.
I would hope to expect less pandering from the police department; however, I am very skeptical on this. Trust me, they will do anything to stop the investigation - do not fear Muslims who cry out racism.
For they are certain that this is a religious hate crime.
Bring these thugs to justice. IP addresses, as we all know, are probably one of the only clues that you may have.
I would highly recommend advising the mayor about this.
My sincerest wishes are that you are successful in bringing the Islamist thugs to justice who did this to the Armanious family.
Mr. Spencer says,
"...home invasions very rarely happen to poor families."
I wonder from what stats you derive this conclusion?
Poor folks are the main focus of crimes and, home invasions.
The onus is not upon myself, but upon you, since you own/operate this website.
There was another CAIR guy on Bill O'Reilly a few minutes ago who complained about the insensitivity of Christian aid workers in the Tsunami region spreading the word of Jesus. This is a good chance to email Fox in order to tell them about CAIR as well as what muslims are all about. I have emailed them already.
Moe's Foe,
The sentence came from my source, not me, but I shouldn't have put it up. I have taken it out.
RS
Alternative theories:
Freak Fly Fishing Lure Accident.
"Twister" board game mix-up.
Macrame Party That Got Out of Control.
I can see why Law Enforcement would not want to jump to any conclusion with so many other plausible theories to explore.
If The New York Times and the rest of the media would give greater attention to this story, and at least try to make people understand why the Copts in Jersey City have no doubts about who committed the crime, by finding out what it is in the experience of those Copts that makes them come to that conclusion, instead of vague allusions to "communal strife" and so on -- if, in other words, the persecution of the Copts in the land of which they are the descendants of the original inhabitants, and not those who call themselves Muslim Arabs (most of whom, no doubt, are themselves the descendants of Copts as well, if they only realized it, their ancestors over the centuries having concluded that it was easier to convert ("revert") to Islam.
More seriousness please, less frivolity by the media. Less about the Armani fashion empire, more about the Armanious family murder, is called for.
Any attempt to "insabbiare" (sand over) the results of the investigation will not work for this case is not something that can be forgotten or overlooked. It is likely, in fact, to get more and more attention, and to become a "teaching moment" on the inculcated murderous hostility that can be found in many passages in Qur'an and Hadith. If the police in Jersey City are unaware of those passages, they -- and the police everywhere in the West, as well as the other security services -- need to learn about what Islam teaches. Repetition of pious phrases, pretense that it is only a "handful of crazies," (akin to those Muslims who think that by constantly repeating that no Muslims cheered on the afternoon of September 11, we will simply forget the reports from Cairo, from Baghdad, from Riyadh and Jeddah, from Ramallah and Nablus and Gaza, from Amman, even from Hamza Street in Beirut -- not to mention the reports from Pakistan, Indonesia, indeed everywhere except, of course, Teheran, where many are now heartily sick of the mullahs, and the Islamic Republic for which they stand), and continued seeming unawareness of why it would be perfectly plausible that, for the sins of having promoted Christianity, the Armanious family would be killed. Still more disturbing is the reliance, in the American armed services as well as in some of its police forces, on Muslims to come in and teach about "what Islam teaches." The naivete here is the stuff of schoolgirls, and beyond belief.
HEY MUSLIMS! WE KNOW ONE/SOME OF YOURS DID THIS. AND IT WILL NOT BE FORGOTTEN OR FORGIVEN.
I RECOMMEND YOU DO THE RIGHT THING AND CLEAN YOUR HOUSE AND TURN THEM IN NOW!!!
THAT WOULD BE IMPRESSIVE.
WHAT YOUR SELF-PROCLAIMED REPRESENTATIVES ARE DOING WILL BE COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE. AND DANGEROUS.
UNDERSTAND!!! MOST AMERICANS KNOW THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH ISLAM-- THEY DON'T BELIEVE WHAT THE MEDIA OR POLITCIANS SAY. THEY KNOW. YOU ARE TEACHING THEM.
ok gang...
stated: Muslims are a minority. The majority speaks. You must listen to US, the majority.
this is stupid... regardless of either being a minority or majority aint the issue...
the issue is that any group, either large or small that allows or does not speak out about these crimes is wrong...
Point taken Rambam -
Find your representatives, senators:
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OT
There is a PBS Frontline program starting on Al Qaeda in Europe.
ot
check out the www.pbs.org site too
ot
wow... pbs has some rather interesting links.
www.terror.net
How Modern Terrorism Uses the Internet
http://www.usip.org/pubs/specialreports/sr116.html
more ot
http://www.siteinstitute.org/
Somewhere this afternoon I read a comment by Gary Bauer. He made the point that if the situation was reversed and it had been a Muslim imam and his family that had been murdered, no doubt that the Muslim community would be calling it a hate crime. I will add that the police would probably jump on the bandwagon and label the murders as such and proceed from there, leaving no stone unturned, regardless of the ethnic or religous group that might be spotlighted. Afterall, CAIR has no problem
labeling a simple occurence as a rock going through the window of an Muslim-owned business as a "hate crime."
"teaching moment" on the inculcated murderous hostility that can be found in many passages in Qur'an and Hadith. If the police in Jersey City are unaware of those passages, they -- and the police everywhere in the West, as well as the other security services -- need to learn about what Islam teaches. Posted by Hugh
You know what they'll say if someone quotes the filth from the Qur'an: "Oh, I'm sure they don't take those verses literally, any more than Christians take the violent content of the Bible literally." The Qur'an is indisputably unbelievable, which is one reason non-muslims pay little attention to what it says. It is inconceivable that nice, polite, quiet muslims engender the primitive, barbaric savagry found in the Qur'an.
Law enforcement agencies have to work under tremendous restrictions and pressures in today's world, especially since muslims invaded our country with their excess baggage. One slip of the tongue, one inadvertent mistake, one hint of profiling or discrimination and someone's career could instantly go up in smoke. I'm surprised anyone would want to work under the politically correct guidelines imposed on public servants in the lower echelons, especially the stressful, dirty, low-paying, dangerous and thankless jobs like law enforcement.
I'm sure the police department is catching hell from both directions. The muslims know this crime was committed by muslims. They were on the defensive immediately, and CAIR has probably threatened them with lawsuits and public humiliation if they dare suggest that this crime was inspired by Islam.
The Copts also know that muslims are guilty and they are demanding justice. The police probably think they're dealing with a Hatfields and McCoys scenario, feuding and bad blood from an old disagreement. Well, you could look at it like that, but you would miss most of the story. The plight of the Copts in Egypt is unknown to most people, as is the history of the Middle East and the doctrine of Islam. How do you educate a police department about Egypt, the Copts, and centuries of Islamic tyranny so they will understand what is obvious to those involved?
They will probably dismiss the religious hatred motive as too far-fetched, because to those who are ignorant of Islam, it is exactly that---too far-fetched. But this will be a lesson, at least for one police department. Mulitculturalism is much more complicated than its proponents bothered to tell anyone. It presents more challenges than one can imagine, as this case is proving.
No muslims; No mosques. Deportation & Demolition.
Susan,
that's exactly why the people who frequent Jihad Watch are so important. We all know we need to open the eyes of our colleagues, friends and families so they stop voting for politically correct politicians. We all know politicians who are informed about the dangers of Islam and who are willing to stand up against Islamists. We should help these people in any way we can.
I have suggested before that maybe we should compile a list of politicians who are on our wave-length - and we also need to make sure that Robert gets more air-time on radio and television. That's why I keep mentioning Jihad Watch in every politically motivated email I'm sending out.
How long will it take before people like Rush Limbaugh begin to pick up on this? Once that happens, the ball will start to roll and CAIR (and the rest) will get squashed like bugs.
From Matthew Henry's Commentary on Romans 8:31-39:
"There is still every day, and all the day long, one or other of the people of God bleeding and dying under the rage of persecuting enemies. Accounted as sheep for the slaughter, they make no more of killing a Christian than of butchering a sheep.
Sheep are killed, not because they are hurtful while they live, but because they are useful when they are dead. They kill the Christians to please themselves, to be food to their malice. They eat up my people as they eat bread (Psalm 14:4)
"The triumph of believers in this: Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors.
We are conquerors though killed all the day long, yet conquerors. A strange way of conquering, but it was Christ's way; thus he triumphed over principalities and powers in his cross. It is a surer and nobler way of conquest by faith and patience than by fire and sword. The enemies have sometimes confessed themselves baffled and overcome by the invincible courage and constancy of the martyrs, who thus overcame the most victorious princes by not loving their lives to the death (Rev 12:11)"
Jihadwatch is "must read", according to Michelle Malkin.
http://michellemalkin.com/index.htm - scroll down to January 24th.
Contacting the MSM is a waste of time. They are openly siding with the terrorists.
I contacted Powerline. Get the word out to conservative outlets, the rest will do whatever they can to bury it.
Thanks, justamof4, for providing that contact information. We have to keep on these folks.
Thanks for the legwork.
Don't laugh too loud :)
The ACLU should be champing at the bit over this case.
THIS represents a TRUE threat to our civil liberties!
How long will it take before people like Rush Limbaugh begin to pick up on this? Once that happens, the ball will start to roll and CAIR (and the rest) will get squashed like bugs.
Posted by: John at January 25, 2005 11:00 PM
I've wondered why Rush hasn't become involved in the Islamic issue myself. Neal Boortz lambastes them almost on a daily basis. And he does not mince any words! I can't believe CAIR hasn't assaulted him and his program, demanding retractions and apologies.
"The Muslim community in Jersey City is putting enormous pressure on City Hall to soft-pedal the case."
This is not acceptable.
What we are failing to do is to learn from aggressive, tireless actions of Muslims resisting the "outing" of Islamic deception and motive.
If we want to win we have to adopt their unrelenting tactics. If we want law enforcement to pay attention and stay on this case we have to keep up the pressure.
Muslims never tire of obscuring the truth and distancing themselves from the bloodshed, beheading and religious persecution. They counter it by pressuring individuals/groups to have sensitivity training and therefore opening official channels for taqiya.("See, we're just like you!")
Why can't we create a small group that educates groups, churches, synagogues, social clubs, businesses on the tactics of terrorism, conquest and jihad? The bloody truth can be explicitly conveyed. We can carefully couch it in political correctness lite profusely laying on, "not all Muslims are terrorists, this is a radical but dedicated minority in our society, etc., etc." This may seem distasteful to you but it's a way to disseminate the truth and it's grease for the pig. Will they sue us for telling the truth? Probably but it's publicity and we can call Savage or FOX and hope they cover it.
Am I completely nuts? I guess I am.
Contact can be achieved by outreach and word of mouth.
Ultimately the group would be paying for this service like they would for a quest speaker.
** Create a small group of knowledgeable, personable individuals and possibly one who has suffered (ideally) at the hands of Islam.
** Develop a presentation/program of materials -- video, pamphlets, visuals and material written by experts. (WHAT'S REALLY GOING ON.) Plus modern examples of non assimilation, deception and taqiyah. Provide backlists and websites where more information can be accessed.
Yes, this takes money, time and people who can travel (and maybe I'm dreaming). I'm throwing it out because if we're going to make a difference we have to get out of our comfort zone and into the fight -- for survival of future generations and those who escaped persecution in their countries only to be slaughtered in the land of the free.
Is there a wealthy Jihad Watcher out there who wants to contribute to this American Jihad? Should we create a fund?
Ideas anyone?
Now I'll shut up ...
just beem looking at the site from scotland, very interested in the topics. will shortly be bringing you the news from scotland regarding organizations working from the mosques in glasgow and other cities. praying for the coptic christians in new jersey, praying for men and women of wisdom everywhere.
I don't blame the prosecutor for being scared of this case. A sensible answer to "was this killing religiously motivated?" is "we are still investigating that possibility," instead of a simple denial.
I can think off hand of two unsolved killings- one including several members of a family- and one arson that caught my eye in local papers. They have nothing to do with jihad but serve to me as a reminder that even in small cities, crimes are never solved.
Those who won't say so much as,"we are looking at this case from all angles including religious motivation" are inviting more of the same if this case goes unsolved.
If a Muslim family had been killed I assure you that is what they would be saying.
Posted by: Sheik Canuck (swt) at January 25, 2005 10:18 PM
Maybe they went to Paris on holliday and asked themselves where are all the French People??
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her Amen
PS
THIS IS BAD??
http://www.siteinstitute.org/bin/articles.cgi?ID=news63505&Category=news&Subcategory=0&Current=1
Judge Bars Terror Evidence Against Sheik
By William Glaberson
January 26, 2005
In an important victory for a Yemeni sheik charged with financing terrorism, a federal judge yesterday prevented prosecutors from introducing what they have described as vital evidence during their initial presentation to the jury.
The judge in federal court in Brooklyn, Sterling Johnson Jr., ruled that the prosecutors cannot display three items they have said are their only corroboration for secretly recorded conversations in which they say the sheik and an aide plotted to take money for terrorist organizations.
Source: http://http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/26/nyregion/26sheik.html?pagewanted=print&position=