"The Islamic orientation makes us say that the occupiers have intervened in the affairs of elections, and our religious duty forces us to make this most important matter clear"

http://www.apostatesofislam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=661

ABOUT THE ARABIC LANGUAGE AND ALPHABET:

http://dictionary.ajeeb.com/en.asp

http://www.ectaco.com/online/diction.php3?refid=532&lang=3

Online automatic translators. Note that these automatic translators are far from flawless, but they can still be useful in certain situations:

http://www.systranbox.com/systran/box

http://www.free-translator.com/

How to write and pronounce Arabic:

http://www.funwitharabic.com/alphabet.html

http://www.i-cias.com/babel/arabic/

http://arabic-language.eigenstart.nl/

Write with Arabic keyboard:

http://www.arabicdictionaries.com/arabickeyboard.htm

The history of the Arabic alphabet and script:

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/arabic.htm

http://www.ancientscripts.com/arabic.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_language

The differences between Classical (Koran) Arabic, written Modern Standard Arabic and Colloquial Arabic (spoken dialects):

http://www.pacificarabic.com/resources/diglossia.html

http://slate.msn.com/id/2063956

http://i-cias.com/cgi-bin/eo-direct.pl?arabic.htm

Have just been watching inhabitants from Sadr City
spewing hatred courtesy of Nazimedia BBC. Despite handing out free frozen chickens which some residents refused to take suspecting them to be 'poisoned', despite having obtained cash for handing in weapons, this surly lot are NOT GRATEFUL.
One burka clad Muslim Woman wanted 'TO TEAR AMERICANS WITH HER TEETH - which shows their affection for Infidel soldiers... Depressing sight of ignorance, backwardness and TOTAL control
of their 'sheep' by clerics such as that thug Al Sadr. I say - get to hell out of Iraq and leave them to slaughter each other in their hellish Death Cult!

> So, how should they leave? On this, I say that
> there must come a day when these American forces
> leave in a prompt, despicable, and hated
> manner, if the blessed and sublime God allows,
> by the will of Iraqis and not by the will of
> those who had been installed by the occupation
> forces. Consequently, the will of the people is
> stronger than the tyrants, stronger than those
> few henchmen, stronger than those panderers who
> speak about the rise of new Iraq.

Despicalbe and hated??? Tell us how you really feel!

If this happens because God allows it, the how does it logically follow that the will of people is stronger than the tyrants? Seems that would merely mean the will of God is greater. But, I have to agree with you that the will of the People IS stronger than the tyrants, and a few henchmen, like you that the rest of the terrorists that plauge the world.

> I say that the task that lays upon is to speak
> out that these elections, taking place with the
> presence of the occupiers, have to be refused.

Vote or not vote, that is your choice and I respect your choice. If you choose not to have your vote counted, then you have only yourself to complain about when those given power are not who you would have choosen. But I have to tell you that the fewer terrorists such as yourself that vote, the happier the People will be with the election results, so I prefer you abstain from voting please.

> Also the deprivation [of elections] for such a
> huge number of Iraqis has to be refused as well.

Huge number? Your number is small, and growing smaller every day. And whatever your number, the Iraqi people are better off without your votes.

> The Islamic orientation makes us say that the
> occupiers have intervened in the affairs of
> elections, and our religious duty forces us to
> make this most important matter clear.

Actually, we intervened in your terrorist ffairs, and setup free elections, not intervened in them. Do not need an Islamic orientation to see we came, we kicked your butts, and now the people are getting to elect their leaders rather than cower in fear of you and other scum like you. Your so-called "religious duty" forces you to be stupid, but that's ok, survival of the fittest baby, and removing you from the gene pool is a service to the world.

Thought Sadr was the young guy who challenged Sistani, got his behind kicked, and has been lying low ever since.
If it is him, hadn't he agreed to be on the ticket of one of the political parties ?

????????

Catherine
no gold star for you
but a black hole
I pray every day to have Help in Destroying our enemys the Islamic Terrorist and we have Bam 31,000 dead and 115,000 dead mulsums who Support Islamic Terrorist??
Saint Catherine---Saint of genocidal tendicies and sick humour.

Take note
I lost many good friends of all religions in that Tsunami.Some of them children.
So you arrogant short skirted troll preacher go back to your 71 virgin friends in heaven Instead of hidimg behind the brave American Tribe spouting your mouth and killing innocent spiders in your bravado.
The enemy is in your back yard,practice what you preach,take one of those much talked about guns and do what you have to do,before you have mosques on every street corner,screaming the koran 16hrs a day nonstop.
Stop hunting innocent squirrels
Stop killing innocent spiders
Did,nt the blood of the buffaloo quench your thirst for blood
Does'nt your faith preach that you should pray for goodness upon your foe

Catherine
look into my face and behold the sweestest dreams of some,and the worst nightmares of others

Many of the friends Hawkwind lost where also good
friends of mine
Kindly think before you make comments like the one that Hawkwind is refering to
As for what relgion I am That none of your Fooking bussiness but I can assure you that the religion does not have genocide in it,s history
What little respect I tried to have for you has been destoyed by your total arrogance
Your arrogance that makes you blind to the fact that the disasters you refer to killed over 60000 children,muslim and none muslim.You, and any-body else who condones your quake remarks are not much better than fanatics that this site is rallying against
I suggest like Hawkwind that you go back to your 71 short skirted sisters,at the bottom of a black hole and make Naseems day.
Catherine
look into my face and behold it will only reflect your worst nightmares.I wish upon you that your dreams are images of the all the children that got washed away.

test.

If these morons would stop attacking iraqi police and security forces as well as US troops, and doing everything to try and push back the date of the elections, they would be acheiving the goal of riiding Iraq of the "occupation" a damn sight quicker. Do they not see that the coalitions presence is now there to insure the elections go ahead, and make sure they are done fairly (without terrorists rigging it to place another islamic tyrant in power).

By keeping the war going,and forcing the elections not to take place, they are defeating the objective of the one thing they say they want most "an end to US occupation". The fact that their actions contradict their alleged intentions tell us that they have more ominous plans than they state.

Mr Rikki,

Good day to you. Everyone wants he Americas to go ...even the Americans want Americans to go.

Alas you miss the point though....they want them to go on their terms no yours...i.e. not after elections and a democratic process installed but but Americans leaving as a rag tag cowering bunch with their tails betwen their legs.

So, that is wha this is about ...the number of terrorists number about 40,000 with upto 200,000 hangers on too. What chance of the election under these circumstances ....very little I'd say,...shame....sure it is.

The election I'm afraid won't help...the shia will win hands down and at that pont the sunnis will delcare civil war...The election will make things worse not better. I think you ought to go and let them sort it themselves.

Catherine.....what a callous little bitch you are. Even your own Americans have turned on you, you don't represent them.....what a wally....take one of your guns and shoot yourself in the foot. Your comments are insane...you are starting to think with your heart not your brain.

By the way did you contribute to the Tsunami fund at all?

The disrupting of major weapons projects, the destruction of gigantic stores of arms, and the removal of Saddam Hussein's regime, is more than enough to justify the original invasion. There was, and is, no need to prove some Al-Qaeda connection. Any Muslim regime, in any Muslim country, already has an Al-Qaeda connection, in esse or in posse.

But that was Iraq War #1. Iraq War #2, the Light-Unto-the-Muslim-Nations Project, is a misallocation of resources: men, materiel, money, and attention. All of these are finite. More than $200 billion has already been spent in and on Iraq. No aid should go to Iraq; all rebuilding should be paid for out of future oil earnings, by a country that has the world's second-largest oil reserves. No Americans should be fighting to get Sunnis, or anyone else to vote. The dreamy belief that "democracy" can 1) be transplanted with relative ease, when it took centuries of political development, and which included all sorts of ideas -- the end of the divine-right theory of monarchy, the social-contract theory which justified government and also justified revolt against government, the very idea of the "citizen" as opposed to the subject, the idea of the nation-state and the rule of law. Not a single one of these ideas has taken root anywhere in the Muslim world. The Ruler is to be obeyed, no matter what he does -- because he is The Ruler. The only exception is when it can be shown that he is not a Muslim. The idea of the "citizen" is completely alien to almost all those in Iraq; they care about, and can conceive of only their own wellbeing, that of their families, their tribes and, at times, their sectarian or ethnic identity. The idea of an "Iraqi people" working for the betterment of a mythical place called Iraq, is absurd.

If the Americans pull out, what could happen? Perhaps a standoff, in which the three Ottoman vilayets of Basra (the Shi'a), Baghdad (the Sunnis), and Mosul (the Kurds), reassert themselves. Perhaps fissiparous forces cause a breakup of the country. Perhaps there will be open civil war. Perhaps the Shi'a of Iran will help the Shi'a of southern Iraq, and Saudi Arabia and the Gulf sheikdoms sending aid to the Sunnis. Meanwhile Syria, its Alawite rulers (the Alawites make up no more than 12% of the population), torn between their long-standing ties to Iran, and their fear of the Sunni Muslims who make up a majority of Syria's population and who have have demonstrated their affection for the Alawites in such acts as massacring 83 Alawite cadets at a military academy in Aleppo in 1980) would not know what to do.

It is absurd for the United States to spend tens of billions, or hundreds of billions, more, on a country whose people, save for a handful of the elite who were refugees from Saddam Hussein (Allawi, Chalabi, Ambassador Francke, et al) and are entirely unrepresentative men and women, do not like us, and cannot like us, and cannot be grateful, and who have demonstrated, in their absolute failure to fight for "their own country," in their general whining about how the Americans have not done an Instant Makeover of Iraq (why should anything more be done, given the cost in men and money and materiel, to overthrow a monstrous regime? Since when did the Marshall Plan become the model for all American wars, so that some Americans believe we have some sort of duty, even to those whose ideology (in this case, the belief-system of Islam) remains implacably hostile to American Infidels.

Let the Americans leave, but with the capacity, from the air, to wreak terrible damage if such were necessary. And then let Sunni and Shi'a, Arab and Kurd, settle things for themselves. And if they damage each other, and if other Sunni and Shi'a allies come in, so what?

The Iran-Iraq War went on for eight years. From the viewpoint of Infidels, it should have gone on forever. Let a large part of the Muslim world be tied down with this. Let all foreign aid (a disguised jizya) from Infidels to Muslim states end; let aid be re-directed to those black African states that are attempting to deal with their own growing Muslim populations (that means, for example, in the Cote d'Ivoire it was Laurent Gbagbo who should be supported, and not the northern Muslims from other countries who are forcibly attempting to obtain citizenship, and thereby to dominate the country). Let money be spent on educating Infidels about Islam, and on de-islamizing Western Europe, and on demonstrating the preposterousness of "deux-rivisme" that is such a favorite of the sillier French politicians -- the idea that the "two banks" of the Mediterranean have so much in common, and can so easily coopoerate. The less France, the less Europe, has to do with North Africa, except in order to help its regimes constrain Islam, the better. Any connection between the Muslim world and the Infidel world will always lead to a weakening of the resolve of the latter, given the uses of taqiyya, the abuses of tolerance, the readiness of people to believe the unbelievable and ignore the evidence of their senses.

Let Iraq be Iraq -- yes, indeed.

it is necessary to expose the vocal minority of Americans who continue to exploit the tragedy of September 11 to advance their pre-existing anti-Muslim agenda.”

Many in this minority have NO feelings PRE 911!
911 was the wakeup. The beginning of studies....

Hatred for Muslims?....I don't hate Muslims, I hate ISLAM!

Then again moderate Muslims are not really Muslims at all except by name.They have been targeted as Kuffar (infidels) by thier own extremist mullahs and Imans.And the thousands of henchmen hell-bent on killing ANYONE they can who may appear to stand in the way of world wide shaira.

Naseem-
The tyranny of the Sunni minority in Iraq is over, and that's the way America and the majority Shia likes it. We're more than aware of the sectarian dynamic in Iraq - one need look no further than the relationship between Ayatollah Sistani and Abu Musabb al-Zarqawi to understand this (what did Sistani call him - a "filthy infidel"?).
It really doesn't matter if the elections are perfect - the Shia are taking over regardless, it's a simple matter of demographics. What the Sunnis need to realize, for their own good, is that this is going to happen either through elections or civil war - if they want to suffer the solution of conflict, they will indeed SUFFER the solution.
As far as America is concerned, our work, particularly in strategic terms, is pretty much done once the Shia take over. We understand what a Shia Iraq presents in the region to the likes of Iran and especially Saudi Arabia.
Americans aren't terribly concerned with the perceptions of the insurgents, Naseem - we're not in Iraq to accommodate them, are we?

Amen, Hugh.

Hmm. Why is this Sadr fellow still stealing oxygen?

Maybe we could get some of that Ukrainian dioxin to slip in his hummus...

'm going to post this same message in several topics here at JW today...

I have several graphic files saved as PDFs. They are great to e-mail to your friends about the dangers of islam. If you want copies, email me at sidlawson@gmail.com and I'll send them to you.

I don't know how else to enable you to get copies. I've asked RS if he wanted copies so he could put them here at JW, but got no answer from him. So I'll send them to you if you want them - email me and I'll send them to you.

My gmail account is secure, and SusanB knows me (but not by the name of Sid).

If anyone else here in this forum has a web site wherein he/she could provide these files as a link for downloading (and not be afraid of getting murdered by an islamist here in the USA), please let me know. EVERYONE should be sending these anti-islamist PDFs to their friends, posting them in their churches and schools, putting them on windshields at the mall, DROPPING THEM FROM AIRPLANES.

Sid

Yes, the world with the US at the helm has done some damage in that pissant country called iraq. Plenty of shot up and blown up anti democratic insurgents, a good start. Democracy is a runaway freight train headed straight for iraq and no lowly muslim insurgency is going to stop it.

Once again nassem with the inflatable numbers comes on and claims 40,000 terrorists, this is rubbish. Again, with no proof to back up the absurd claim. Since naseem is so anti American here is an alternate source of terrorist insurgency numbers.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,11153733%5E2703,00.html

What did Catherine say that got shiva, hawkfart and naseem's panties in a bunch? The post must have gotten kicked.

Hugh - Amen and Amen.

Has anyone noticed that the same graceless lack of gratitude is building in Indonesia and Malaysia?

When we go on humanitarian missions, whether it's to save a culture from tyranny, as was the "War in Iraq," or to rehabilitate the areas devastated by the tsunami, as the Indian Ocean 2004 event, we should be well aware that there are local and international movements that cynically bait us to go, as the U.N. recently did, so as to separate us from our treasure and to use our human capital, but gratitude is not possible.

EPG - Speaking of lack of gratitude...

I heard on Fox news this morning that Indonesia had issued statement saying that all military aid personnel must be out of the country by Mar 26.

...and that the White House was asking for a clarification from the Indonesian Government.

out by Mar 26? Or what? lol, I guess they will file a comlaint with the UN, lol

How many troops does India, Indonesia, etc, have in iraq? Seems only fair that when we help them they should help us, if not in dollars then in troops.

Why not leave Indonesia right now? This will force the Indonesian government, and the local Muslims in Aceh to concentrate on taking care of their own problems, not waiting with a sense of entitlement, and unrelieved hostility, for the Infidels -- Americans and Australians -- to thanklessly do it all for them (much as in Iraq).

And if they are busy taking care of Aceh, they may have a little less time, and a little less money, to oppress the Christians in the Moluccas, to continue to burn down thousands of churches, to attck Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, and Confucians, all over the archipelago, as has been going on for decades.

There should be no further transfer of wealth from Infidel countries to Muslim countries. No foreign aid, no military aid. Nothing. It does not elicit gratitude. American aid to Egypt, a nasty regime of a nasty country, so far amounts to $65 billion, and with every year Egypt becomes more and more anti-American; it is now a world center of both anti-American and antisemitic propaganda.

Let the rich Arabs be constantly reminded that it is their duty to share with the umma al-islammiyya. Let the spotlight be put on the Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous Saudis -- resentments can be encouraged, all over the Muslim world. And every dollar that must be coughed up by the rich Arabs to support poorer Arabs (and other Muslims)is money that will not be avaiable for mosques and madrasas and bribes all over the Western world. While waiting to diminish Saudi revenues through crash, government-funded programs (akin to the Manhattan Project), every effort should be made to force them to share those unmerited revenues with their fellows.

Would the Egyptians object? Would the Jordanians? The attention, of Western and non-Western governments, the press, television, should be focussed on the vast sums already received (some 5-6 trillion dollars, since 1973) by the OPEC oil states, and the poorer Arabs and Muslims be relentlessly reminded of these vast sums. Let demands for an equitable sharing among the entire umma al-islamiyya be raised and mangified.

Anything which causes a diminishment in the amounts those in Saudi Arabia, the U.A.E., Kuwait et al have to support the JIhad, and the more that money has to be spent on bread, or snaitation and subway systems, in Cairo or Amman, the better.

But please -- no more transfer of Infidel wealth to people who hate Infidels, because they are Infidels. This is madness.

"Consequently, the will of the people is stronger than the tyrants, stronger than those few henchmen, stronger than those panderers who speak about the rise of new Iraq"
This IS true in the civilized world of the west. Islam does not embrace the modern world, to the contrary, everything the Qu'ran teaches is to
heighten back to literally the stone age.
So, my question is this "Where were these feelings before March 2003?"

MR HUGH,
Two world class posts mister! Have ever considered a political career?

Hugh,

You've just given me the first argument for getting out of Iraq that I find in the least persuasive. I am more optimistic than you about the chances to improve things in Iraq and in the greater ME, but I've begun to scale back my expectations.

I do still think it was and is a worthy experiment. Long-term, these people will be a huge danger to us if left unchecked, and I'm a big fan of at least trying to nip big problems in the bud.

Dan

Nasseem

"By the way did you contribute to the Tsunami fund at all?"

I of course did not contribute to the tsunami relief because all it will do is help to rebuild the enemy. I don't care how many of their children died in the catastrophe. They don't care if a terrorist kills our kids so why should I care if their kids die?

If our governments are contributing, we are contributing.

Dan and all:
You may find this interesting:

"Regional Implications of Shi'a Revival in Iraq" by Vali Nasr www.twq.com/04summer/docs/04summer_nasr.pdf

"...The change in the sectarian balance of power is likely to have a far more immediate and powerful impact on politics in the greater Middle East than any potential example of a moderate and progressive government in Baghdad..."

And don't the Saudis know it.

Amen Hugh and Great Post as always!Speaking of Muslim gratitude came across what happened to Doris Gluck who is now under police Protection after writing a book called 'I Married A Holy Warrior' and giving information to police about her former husband and his Mujahideen buddies.
Doris Gluck [not her real name] you may recall was the German woman in her forties who met 'Omar'[not his real name] in a cafe. Omar wanted Doris's help to advertise for a German wife to get German Citizenship. Five weeks later they were married and Doris could hardly believe her 'good luck.' This good looking Eyptian stud much younger than herself was now her hubby...
Of course Omar wasn't that keen on working - at least not 9-5 variety but Doris was happy to support him between jobs.
A fall from his bicycle which broke Omar's arm led to him spending more time at the local mosque - and we all know how dangerous this can be! Omar stopped drinking [he still wasn't keen on working] and became a pious Muslim.
Hearing the call from his Brothers in Bosnia,Omar said he was going and Doris got the choice of 'either come or our marriage is over.' So Doris
as deeply in love as before went to Bosnia with him. There she had to wear a full burka and tolerate her husband taking a second, younger wife. Omar worked in the Front organization "People are People" whilst in reality making Pro Muslim,Anti Serb propaganda videos.
One evening, Omar and Doris went to a place
in Bosnia where three Serbs had been captured and were to be executed in revenge killings. Omar was to film the executions. The first Serb was shot by women who had lost husbands and sons fighting
the Serbs. To Doris's horror [she starts thinking Omar isn't so holy] second Seb was forced to his knees and had his head sawn off with a knife!! Later, merry Mujahideen played football with the head. Doris says she was in such a state with witnessing the beheading [something she thinks about every night] that she doesn't know if her husband took part in killing of third Serb.
Anyway she went back to Germany and after some time - she has the excuse of being 'deeply in love' with Omar,divorces him. In the meantime, Omar is a Militant in Indonesia and spends a year in jail there.[Wonder if he applied to Doris for funds??}
By 2003 as he hasn't committed a crime on German soil, the Dhimmi Germans let him back in their Country and are now supporting Omar, his second wife and their five children on Welfare.
Doris says he isn't afraid Omar would kill her but she is worried about his friends torturing and
killing her!! [Well, she was in the Balkans and have seen them doing this.]
Doris says Omar believes killing Infidels is the right thing to do. She says Islam is a WONDERFUL RELIGION. Oh Doris, don't you understand even now
how you were deceived, manipulated and willing stooge for a horrendous Death Cult...

Hey all you Hajj travelers, if the U.S. Border officials fingerprint you upon your return from your Islamic "cleansing", be sure to scream racism, religious bias, unwarranted detainment, harrassment, and Islamophobia when you call the "Hajj Hotline" provided by the Islamic extremist militants at the Council on American Islamic Relations CAIR.

I guess these clowns haven't heard that the world is at war with Islamic extremists, and that all nations and their citizens have the right to protect themselves from illiterate mad bombing terrorists, born of and bred by Wahabbi Islamic lunatics.

http://www.cair.com/default.asp?Page=articleView&id=35708&theType=NB

By the way did you contribute to the Tsunami fund at all?

Posted by: Naseem at January 12, 2005 08:34 AM

Not a penny!!

Only that Tax dollars that the federal goverment takes??

WHAT IS SO WRONG TO PRAY FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF YOUR ENEMIES THE ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND THEIR SUPPORTERS??

http://www.zum.de/psm/rta/doa62a.php
Reichstagsakten 1888/89, 7. Lp., Vol. 121, Attachment 76: Collection of Documents pertaining the Uprising in East Africa, Attachment to No.62
Dar-es-Salam, December 28th 1888

I have the honour to report to the Deutsch-Ostafrikanische Gesellschaft's general office on Zanzibar that unrest has occurred here, probably in consequence of the blockade. Robbing insurgents entered Dar-es-Salam during the night from the 23rd to the 24th; they were caught by our Askaris, under the leadership of Herr Borenstein, who was on duty, when they forced entry into the house of an Indian, and they were chased out. The stoilen wares, as well as a number of spears and a battle axe habe been taken from the insurgents; one of our Arab soldiers was injured by a severe blow to his head. On christmas eve the skirmish was repeated. I had already been informed in the afternoon that the insurgents were planning something, and that they would assemble that night in the village of Bagamoyo near Dar-es-Salam in order to attack. Around 9 o'clock I dispatched a patrol in order to reconnaitre, which soon got into a skirmish with the rebels. After a brief fight the insurgents withdrew, leaving behind a number of rifles and powder horns. If the insurgents had losses, is unknown. On our side one Askari was injured by being stabbed in his leg. On the report of the patrol we fired a number of granades at the withdrawing rebels, which then fled in all directions.
One of our men, who got separated from his unit and was taken prisoner by the rebels, now found the opportunity to escape. He arrived with his arms tied on his back. For the time being the insurgents take prisoner all persons they can catch, and sell them on the slave market at Kvuduchi.
According to daily reports they shall plan to attack the station of Dar-es-Salam in force. As I have just been informed by Abdallah, an Arab I have appointed judge Umbuamadji, an uncle of Tippu Tip, by letter, the insurgents are lead by Akyda Salamini, who had been banned from Dar-es-Salam, and by the former Liwaly of Kisigu and Kikunja, as well as by a number of slave merchants from Kilwa. The two Liwaly were reported to have said that they would have to pursue the matter to the end, as they were without income for months. While Sultan Kauamba of Mikindu, the most important personality of the region, has refused to join in the destabilization of Dar-es-Salam, the matter seems not to be harmless, as a lot of rabble from Kilwa, Konduchi and other coastal towns has come to the area. Admiral Deinhard has approved my request that S.M.S. "Möwe" will spend a number of days here every now and then. The warship has entered the port this morning. While imminent danger seems not to be apparent at the moment, it has not to be overlooked that the unrest paralyzes both the trade and the development of the town. Both Indians and Arabs, as long as they do not belong to the Askaris, are permanent refugees, and the rumours and job's news do not seize.

signed A. Leue

http://www.zum.de/psm/rta/doa27.php
Reichstagsakten 1888/89, 7. Lp., Vol. 121, Attachment 41: Collection of Documents pertaining the Uprising in East Africa, No. 27: Directive to the Imperial ambassador in London
Friedrichsruh, October 21st 1888

The movement of the Muslim Arabs, supported by slave traders, which first found its expression in the Mahdi revolt in the Egyptian Sudan, has since expanded and had also resulted in collisions with European enterprises at other points of the African continent. The raid on an Italian expedition in 1886 by the Emir of Harar, the threat to stations on the eastern border of the Congo Free State by Arabs, the treatment of Stanley and his companions by Tippu Tip, the attacks on English mission stations in Uganda and on trade settlements on Lake Nyassa, the rebellion in coastal stretches of the Sultanate of Zanzibar which are under British and German administration - all these events give the impression that they are connected with each other, a connection which provides evidence for a slowly increasing, but freely forming movement among the Muslim population in the direction of a reaction against Christian and civilisatoric efforts, namely in the area of slave trade. All nations interested in the promotion of Christian morale share an equal interest in counteracting the dangers posed by such a movement.
The rising importance and expansion the Muslim agitation has gained over the last years in Africa, goes hand in hand with a rising export of powder and arms from Europe to equatorial Africa.
Ample equipment with arms and ammunition facilitates the slave trader's raids and the Arabs' attempts to keep the European opponents of slave trade from penetrating further and to repel them from their present positions.
Therefore it seems to us a common obligation of the European nations engaged in the peaceful opening-up of Africa to obstruct both the slave trade and the arms trade with greater emphasis, than it has been done so far. Such an aim seems only feasible by a blockade of the entire East African coast, which is strong and firm enough to obstruct the export of slaves and the import of arms more effectively as before. If the Royal British government does approve such a measure, we are prepared to enter negotiations with all other concerned powers in order to obtain their approval. I would regard it especially appropriate to obtain France's accord in regard to reject Arab slave trader dhows the right to sail under the French flag.
I ask Your Excellency most humbly to communicate with Lord Salisbury according to the beforementioned comments and to report his answer.

signed von Bismarck

His Excellency the Imperial ambassador
Count von Hatzfeldt
London

http://www.zum.de/psm/rta/aufstand_doae.php
Report from the Imperial consul general on Zanzibar. (extract.) 5.5.1888
Conclusion of a treaty on Appril 28th 1888, in which the Sultan transfers the administration of his mainland coastal lands to the Deutsch-Ostafrikanische Gesellschaft

http://www.zum.de/psm/rta/doa2.php
Reichstagsakten 1888/89, 7. Lp., Vol. 121, Attachment 41: Collection of Documents pertaining the Uprising in East Africa, No.2: Report from the Imperial consul general on Zanzibar
Zanzibar, May 5th 1888
arrived in Berlin June 4th 1888

I have the honour to most obediently send to you the both examples of the treaty signed on April 28th by His Highness the Sultan of Zanzibar on one side and by myself as authorized representative of the Deutsch-Ostafrikanische Gesellschaft on the other side, one version being in English language, the other in Arabic, and to add the following explanations.
From the beginning the Sultan displayed his reluctance to sign a contract with the Deutsch-Ostafrikanische Gesellschaft as such. Repeatedly he assured me orally that he wished to sign the treaty with the Reich government. In order to remove these difficulties and to act in accordance with the instructions given to me I have suggested the solution to mention in the treaty introduction that my authorization as representative of the Deutsch-Ostafrikanische Gesellschaft would have been approved by your Excellency, and so the misgivings of His Highness were overcome. The Sultan emphasized the form of a treaty, seemingly with the intention to more sharply stress the obligation of the opposing side than it would have been done by merely unilaterally granting a concession.
According to the wishes of the Gesellschaft, article 10 concerning the financial share of the Sultan in company profits, has been altered in accordance with its statutes.
Article 11 contains the most favoured nation clause.
Article 14 determines the date for the transfer of the administration. It has the advantage that the Sultan is bound to it from August 15th onward, but the Gesellschaft is free to decide the date of transfer after that date.
As a matter of precaution I have added article 15 in order to make sure that linguistic flaws in the Arab version do no harm. According to Dragoman Michalla, the Arab text of the preliminary treaty is imprecise and unclear in its formulations, and it would have been necessary to write a new text. But this would have complicated the negotiations, as already at that time I was wrongly accused of having added changes to the first 8 unaltered points. Herr Michalla thus had to acquiesce in changing those points in an explanatory way which differed from the English text, which also had been confusing to the Arab consultants of the Sultan, but otherwise to leave the Arab text unaltered. As now the English text is decisive in case of differing interpretations, the danger from linguistic flaws of the Arab version has been removed.

Michahelles

His Excellency the Prince von Bismarck

COULD THIS BE WHAT J.Q.ADAMS WAS TALKING ABOUT??

http://www.zum.de/psm/rta/doa8a.php
Reichstagsakten 1888/89, 7. Lp., Vol. 121, Attachment 41: Collection of Documents pertaining the Uprising in East Africa, Report from the Imperial consul general on Zanzibar

No.8, attachment no. 1, Report from District Chief of Lindi
Lindi, August 16th 1888
The Arab segment of the population of Lindi lives on the slave trade. All soldiers and Sultan's men are accomplices and receive their share in the robbery.
The main slave traders are :
Mahamadi Ngunga
Bachofa Hamed
Abid bin Zef
Halaal bin Zef
Salim bin Abdallah
Seliman, the Sultan's prison guard
Rashid de Pappa
and the Kadi Omani bin Jemali
The latter is given a large percentage for remaining silent.
British warships hardly ever have confiscated a slave dhow here and do not visit the port. Almost all the dhows sail under the French flag which they obtain from the consulate in Madagscar, as they have their ships measured there.
I remark simultanously that it is difficult to undertake anything here against slave trade, which is also profitable to the indigenous along the coast, without having a sufficient force at my disposal.

the district chief
Freiherr von Eberstein

AND HISTROY REPEATS IT'S SELF??/

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength, Wisdom, Sight, and Courage to Victory [FREEDOM] to Destroy ALL islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Open the Worlds Eyes to their Threat give the World Strength to Stand Up and Fight them Amen

I know I'm swimming against the tide and disagreeing with some of the greats here but..

My humble opinion:

It's said that G-d wept when he saw the Israelites celebrating at the destruction of the pursuing Egyptians by the sea of reeds because, "Are not the Egyptians also My creation?"

When we observe suffering like the suffering inflicted by tsunami, it's our responsibility to attempt to relieve that suffering -- despite that many of those suffering see us, (the West/Jews/Christians) as enemy infidels.

The scenes of devastation and faces of suffering children, adults move me but what strikes fear in my heart (along with the desire to do the right thing) is how I will answer to G-d when asked why I callously turned my face away from those in need.

As it says in Ecclesiastics:

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose ...

Mike

"If our governments are contributing, we are contributing."

yeah and I bet you say since clinton won two presidencies that means we all wanted him too?

Sure we create the government but we don't have to agree with what it does.

P.S.- By the way I don't have a job and don't need one and when I do feel like working i don't pay taxes. So that means I did not contribute a red cent to the terrorists.

Whats the big deal, we know that there that are over 6,000,000,000 people on the planet. Divide 150,000 tsunami deaths by the worlds population and it is less than .0000% in other words it makes no difference. Anyone in India, Indonesia, etc crying over the dead Americans in California from the mudslides, any help from any in other countries besides the US?

thank you cross

Hugh
You get 3 Gold Stars for the Day!!
I am like Dan and thought some could be saved but the more I find I just don’t Know and from the Air looks real good to me??
Maybe a little more time?? But today they are shooting from mosques again and no mulsum in the world seams to find fault with this?? Until we shoot back?

Cross think it is still there hard to tell??
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/004610.php#comments
Posted by: Catherine at January 11, 2005 06:59 PM
OR COULD BE THIS ONE??
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/004606.php#comments
Posted by: Catherine at January 11, 2005 04:37 PM
OR IT COULD BE THIS ONE??
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/004605.php#comments
Posted by: Catherine at January 11, 2005 05:26 PM
OR IT COULD BE THIS ONE??
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/004605.php#comments
Posted by: Catherine at January 11, 2005 02:41 PM
OR IT COULD BE THIS ONE??
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/004599.php#comments
Posted by: Catherine at January 10, 2005 12:06 PM
OR MAYBE IT WAS THIS ONE?? THAT IS THE ONE I THINK??
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/004605.php#comments
Posted by: Catherine at January 11, 2005 02:41 PM

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength, Wisdom, Sight, and Courage to stay the course to Victory {FREEDOM] to Destroy ALL islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Open the Worlds Eyes to their Threat give the World the Strength to Stand Up and Fight Amen

PS
Have to take a time out have belly dancing class!!

Posted by: Kemaste at January 12, 2005 02:47 PM

I do not rejoice in the death of these people or their lose I just Pray for God to Help us in our Fight against this Evil enemy Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them

You have to read the post with the archives! Story is important to coments or should be some of us get off but must read the story too!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom,Sight and Courage to Victory[FREEDOm] to Destroy ALL Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Open the Worlds Eyes to their Threat give the World Strength to Stand Up and Fight them Amen

"I pray every day to have Help in Destroying our enemys the Islamic Terrorist and we have Bam 31,000 dead and 115,000 dead mulsums who Support Islamic Terrorist??"

Was this it? This? Was this the offensive remark that got hawkweed, shiva and naseem upset...hahaha lol rotflmao!

To Dan above:

There was not space in my first posting to dilate upon all the reasons why not absence of democracy, but presence of Islam, is the problem for Infidels. One wishes to do nothing that prevents Muslims themselves, or a sufficient number of them, from beginning to recognize that the political, economic, intellectual, and social failures of Muslim peoples and polities come from Islam itself.

If you have time, you might google the phrase "Light-Unto-the-Muslim-Nations" (with or without the dashes), or "Posted by Hugh" and "jihadwatch" as well, or with the phrase "misallocation of resources" and previous discussions of why we should leave Iraq much sooner than once contemplated -- just as soon after these elections as possible (certainly by the summer).

This is more likely to help accomplish a much larger goal -- the weakening of Islamic states -- as well as allow for the application of those preently-misallocated resources for other uses. In particular, Europe must be won back, and intelligent anti-Islamic forces encouraged, while the crooks (such as Chirac) are exposed, and all the Arab hirelings, including most of the upper-level bureaucrats at the E.U., and indeed all those whose pre-existing mental conditions -- anti-Americanism and antisemitism -- make them security threats to the Infidel world in its attempt to protect itself from what is a world-wide Jihad -- are driven from positions of power and influence. And that requires, as well, changing who is in control at the BBC (including the sinister John Simpson, a convinced hater of America -- see his book on Iraq, and of Israel -- see his praise for, and introduction to the book of, his friend the anti-Israel conspiracy-theorist Peter Hounam).

Iraq will not be a "model" of anything. The Muslim countries have had a positive model of secularism and quasi-democracy for 80 years. It is called Turkey. Not a single Muslim country has been affected in the slightest. Those same Muslim countries have had, for the past 25 years, a negative model as well -- the Islamic Republic of Iran. That model, too, has had almost no effect in alerting other Muslims to the dangers of Islam -- rather, it is a model that others have looked to.

Yet the Administration persists in talking about a "model" for that area. The President keeps repeating slogans such as "freedom isn't free." Apparently it isn't, but why are American soldiers and taxpayers doing all the paying for that "Iraqi Freedom"? As for the argument that we "must stay the course," by all means -- but which "course" is it we are "staying"? Not the course of refashioning Iraq. The "course" that needs staying is quite different, and Iraq has become merely a dangerous drain on resources. Islam is an immutable belief-system. It is irreconcilably hostile, it inculcates hostility, to Infidels. It preaches world domination -- expansion of dar al-Islam until it has taken over, swallowed up, all of dar al-harb. This was not understood as long as Muslims were weak, and while the Cold War was going on, when it was mistakenly believed that Islam itself was just fine, and such a natural bulwark to Communism (well, so was Hitler, but we were right to take him on, and the Japanese militarist worshippers of "Kodo" as well).

We need grownups who are flexible and cunning to make policy. From our point of view, an Iraq that becomes a fault line for Sunni-Shi'a temblors, would be highly desirable.

Miss Catherine (The Great);
Thanks for helping to identify the wolf in sheeps clothing(shiva), it is all your posts that has finally gotten under the skin long enough to let the LIGHT in so we may see who stands or who hides.
Though I feel very saddened for those truly innocent people who died I do not support helping those with DIHMITUDES which basically covers the islamic religion as a whole and yes no donation here unless you count My tax money that has been turned over to U.N. so kofi can pay for his vacation.

Yes the trolls are out and we know who you are;

"Three can keep a secret if two are dead"

Miss Catherine please give yourself 10 Gold Stars and KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.

SHIVA IS SUPREME

Shiva also means the ‘Embodiment of Supreme Efficiency’. God’s efficiency is seen in every moment of our life, if only we care to be observant.

There are a number of planets and stars around the earth. They do not collide with each other. We find that rivers flowing continuously. No river would ever say, “I would like to go on strike tomorrow.” [Laughter] The wind goes on blowing incessantly. The wind will never say, “I am tried of blowing. Please give me a holiday.” [Laughter] If the wind demanded a holiday, all global problems would be solved immediately, as it would bring about the extinction of humanity. [Laughter] The sun has no holiday either. Fruits and flowers follow the seasons. No tree would ever say, “Why should I flower? You don’t thank me for my efforts. Why should I flower? [Laughter] Why should I bear fruit? You are ungrateful.” No tree would ever complain.

God’s efficiency is beyond the stretch of human imagination. Shiva is supreme, when one considers His level of efficiency and the fact that He requires no support from anybody. He is one without a second.

out by Mar 26? Or what? lol, I guess they will file a comlaint with the UN, lol

Posted by: cross at January 12, 2005 11:55 AM

Naw--they'll just start blowing up doctors, nurses, people carrying in food and medical supplies--you know, the usual.

OT:

A short update on the new site project.

Rabbit is currently busy putting all the information on the "clearinghouse" site. Once everything is given the final approval, it will be moved "Babypasta".

I can say, from all the information that was sent in and all the hard work everyone put in to this, it's going to be fantastic. I sent over 5 hours worth of data. And, have a couple more hours to send tonight.

The Mission Statement is completed, just putting 1 change in, But, it is exactly what the group stated they wanted us to represent. George Mason did a wonderful job on putting this together.

Now, the next section I would like to add is going to be called "The Experts Corner".

If everyone could forward over to me articles from the likes of Robert, Hugh, Daniel Pipes, Michelle Malkin, Ali Sina, Steve Emerson, Victor Hanson, etc., we will make a space for those.

You can forward them to susan_b356@yahoo.com

Miss Catherine please give yourself 10 Gold Stars and KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.

Posted by: Chuck at January 12, 2005 05:31 PM

No I went belly dancing!! aOh the shaking!!

Hair down and tick-len the back!!

January 11, 2005
Brits from Getmo to be released??

1802 Jefferson got rid of Judges??

March 27th British airways to stop Flights to Saudi Arabia?? Says because of low Demand??

Some place in Calif that was going to close the gun range? Was hit by a mud slide? Kind of makes you wonder? Because when you think about the defense of the People Like I said kind of makes you wonder??

Pakistan are fighting? An attack on a shia cleric ?
4.3 Earthquake Southern Philippines??

How easy to distract with the Rather Fake documents after 3 mo’s??

Ask yourself what else just surfaced ? Hillary’s boy goes to jail over campaign funds? Berger[CAUGHT STUFFING PAPERS IN HIS PANTS] is back in the News & the UN=LONs =Oil for Food? And it looks like they have taken the lib bait and it will be tragedy Talk and TV for Awhile??

Car bomb maker caught in Iraq??

Fire in a plant in OK??

January 12, 2005
Germany arrest Terrorist supports who were making Fake Iraqi Documents in 5 German states? Terrorist were raising money and recruiting for jihad 14 arrested searched 50 homes business and mosques??

Bruce Lindsey was in front of Grand Jury over the Burger [STUFFS PAPERS IN PANTS] thing Dose this make the 911 commission??

Ham-as says Abbas has no power to stop the attacks on Israelis and ham-as has no plans to stop attacks on Israel?? OH but that we would untie the Hands of Israel and let her Fight this Fight??

What would America do if Mexico was shooting Rockets into America and Killing Americans???

Book by Steve Vincent “In the Red Zone”

Indonesia says all foreign troops must be out by March 26? And what is the British Flights to stop Flights to Saudi arabi on March 27th??

White House to ck what this is about??

Detroit to have closed hearing on a Teacher of a middle school who was suspended with pay because Teacher said that the Bedouins Arabs used the qu-ran as toilet paper?? Why would this be a suspension if it were true?? Do not let mulsums change our laws!! Freedom of thought Just because you may not like what is said, does not make it so??

Woman started Fire in an apartment building in Detroit?? Could this woman be a mulsum?? Remember Podia Not only dirty bombs but also apartment fires??

Mousal shooting coming from a mosque? What does this mean? Means we have the right to level the mosque like we did in WW2 Mt. Casino, the Islamic Terrorist have declared a religious war?? Where is the outrage for the Islamic terrorist using mosque to fight from never a word until we fight back?? Well is this really what the mulsums want a religious war?? Well then they better look at some pictures of WW2 and the carpet bombings we did during WW2 and Remember we have better Bombs today!! Then wonder when it will be that finnily give up on hope that all mulsums are not savages and not worth bothering to save any??

Think about it we do not care about your children more than we care about our own Children!!!

Where is the outrage from the mulsums that in Iraq they are using mosque to hide weapons and fight out of??
We in America are still waiting for the outrage of what the Islamic Monsters are doing and the silence is deafening?
Soon Americans will see that because there is no outrage that the mulsums world approve of what the ISLAMIC TERRORIST MONSTERS do Who want to kill our Children Americans will not let this happen!!! THINK ABOUT IT??

L.A. Calf mulsum in court for sending weapons systems through Ct. to Iran???

MS to help India in their Sat systems??

Train in Co. derailed from a bolder on track??

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength, Wisdom, Sight, and Courage to stay the course to Victory [FREEDOM]to Destroy ALL Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Amen

PS
Firing near the US embessy at bonda aucha??

Hugh-

Couldn't agree more.

Since the U.S. military planners decided not to invade Iraq with sufficent forces to pacify and totally disarm the country and drive the Muslim terrorists to their death, while hermetically closing the borders from Syria and Turkey and Iran and Pakistan, we are now reaping their Pussyfooting Doctrine's repulsive effects:

hapless troops murdered on the Iraqi roads with sickening regularity -daily, weekly, monthly and yearly. Even inside supposedly well-armored Bradley Fighting Vehicles.

Without the iron will and cooly-cunning brains, we find a Viet Nam lite resulting from this inept strategy and catastrophic wishful-thinking.

There are now two routes to take:

send in a hell of a lot more soldiers (with the current political climate, unlikely, unless a terrorist attack, clearly linked to al-Qaeda cadres in Iraq, occurs in the U.S.) or have the Iraqi elections, say the Babylonians are on their own, and phase the remaining troops out- back to Kuwait and Qatar. And learn the lesson:

Either do it for real, or stay home.

Bush, Rumsfeld, et al are a tactical embarassment and obviously know their military history and guerrilla psychology as well as they know The Koran.

Selah!

Hugh,

You are dead wrong!

You have said in the past that the frontline of the war against Islam is in Europe, not in Iraq. This is a mistaken view.

The frontline of the war against Islam is wherever the fighting portion of the West, i.e. the US, is engaged in killing jihadists. This is being done in Iraq. This task should not be underated, and must never be abandoned until the enemy is obliterated.

You say that democracy cannot be achieved in Iraq. I say it can be achieved. How? By the sword, of course. But one may say, "Yes, but as soon as you remove the sword, democracy in Iraq will fall apart."

Then we must never remove the sword.

I once read in Livy a Roman general who exhorted his wavering troops with these words:

"There is neither honor nor salvation in retreat!"

Is there a "frontline" or is there not a problem with Jihad, and creeping islamization, in many parts of the world? If one has a choice of sinking another $200 billion, over the next year or two, into Iraq, or in spending that money on every conceivable source of non-oil energy and on devices to save energy, in order to deprive the Muslim oil states of the wherewithal that allowed this latest Jihad -- the one which began with the oil bonanza in 1973 -- would it not make more sense to spend that money in the most effective way possible?

Having destroyed Iraq's armaments, and seized many of its weapon scientists, why should the United States not rely on the oldest strategy in the history of the world -- Divide et Impera -- divide and conquer? Iraq consists of three former Ottoman vilayets, yoked together by Sir Percy cox, a country, but not a nation-state, that is on the fault-line between Sunni and Shi'a Islam, and what's more, between non-Arabs (for Berbers, and some other non-Arab Muslims, may well identify with the Kurds against Arab supremacists) and Arabs, that strategy )

Men, materiel, and money are always finite. They must be carefully deployed, and husbanded. If the war of self-defense against the Jihad has no foreseeable end --and how can it, given the immutable texts of Islam? -- it is important that Infidels not lose heart. Morale must stay high. But one can already see that morale among American troops, especially the National Guard and Reservists, is diminishing. New enlistments, and re-enlistments, are sinking. Why? Is it because they are not patriotic? Or is it because, if you have eyes to see, and you have served in Iraq, even if you do not know the tenets of Islam, you cannot fail to notice the behavior of the Iraqis. "Freedom is not free" is a mere slogan, but even if one accepted it, the Iraqis seem intent on having American soldiers pay the price, not they. And the general ingratitude, and disgusting attitude of "Wake me when it's over" of so many Iraqis, leaves many soldiers, and their families, cold. The disconnect between the Official Line in Iraq -- about how wonderful many Iraqis are, and how they yearn for "democracy" -- and there is never an explanation of just why or how this supposed "democracy" will lessen the impact, or influence, of Islam (because there is no such connection -- the only example of semi-successful de-islamization, which is under constant threat and requires constant vigilance, is that of Ataturk's systematic effort to diminish the political and social role of Islam in Turkey, and only afterwards, as a consequence, slowly introduce, by degrees, a modicum of Western-style democracy).

Many soldiers may not know what is in Qur'an and hadith and sira, but they have certainly learned about what use mosques are put to, and they have observed, too, the attitude toward them of a Muslim population which, despite all that the soldiers have done (removing Saddam Hussein was more than enough, but all the work on schools, hospitals, power grids, etc. to date also has been impressive), still, by and large, exhibit hostility. And for the obvious reason -- we remain Infidels, and it does not matter what good we do (it is no different, now, with the Infidels bringing succour to Banda Aceh, but with non-Muslim populations in Thailand and Sri Lanka, it will be a completely different story).

All the wonderful things that are said in Washington about the Iraqis, their supposed broad-based desire for "freedom" and "democracy" and so on, is known to the soldiers on the ground (and I speak as well from the experience in Iraq of close relatives)as exaggerations or falsehoods. The most salient characteristic of the Iraqis is that they are perfectly willing not to help the Americans, and to let the latter do the fighting, and the rebuilding, and to pocket American largesse, and even that largesse for themselves, or their families, or their tribes, without any sense of being the "citizen" of a state, which must exist prior to, not after, the establishment of a "democracy." And if "democracy" is to be more than mere head-counting, but to include individual and minority rights, that in a Muslim country that has not first experienced some de-islamization on the Kemalist model, is simply impossible. The election will take place; the Shi'a will win-- and then what? Are we expected to stay around in order to rebuild the country for Ali al-Sistani and company? Have you looked at Al-Sistani's website, and the list of what is "najis" or "unclean" (blood, spit, excrement, Infidels)? How many American soldiers will be thrilled with the task of risking their lives in order to rebuild a country of Muslims who not only possess the future revenue stream that should pay for everything, but will continue to try to kill (or watch with indifference others try to kill) those same Americans?

This policy of bringing "democracy" and the whole Light-Unto-the-Muslim-Nations Project is based on evasion of the nature of Islam, and on an inability to use one's imagination. There are a hundred things that could be done -- many of them already listed at Jihadwatch over the past year -- that are not being done, and that have not even been contemplated. Military force is the least effective method to deal, at this point, with the threat of Islam.

Sloganeering ("Freedom is not free" etc.) is absurd. Making policy on the basis of unrepresentative elites -- the Iraqis who have spent between 20-45 years abroad, and who are precisely those whom official Washington meets, and assumes are reperesentative men (and, in the case of Ambassador Francke, women). They aren't.
It would be terrible to spend hundreds of billions more, do great damage to army stores, and above all, permanent damage to the citizen-soldiers whose support is needed, not just for this Iraqi business, but for many decades to come.

Above all, education of Infidels about the nature of Islam, here and in Canada and in Europe and Australia, is necessary. Without that understanding, the argument that Infidels must keep Muslim migrants from entering, disarm the Muslim states no matter what their current regime may be (such arms can always be transferred, or fall into the hands of, Muslim terrorists, and in any case, terrorism is just one of the weapons of Jihad).l

What would happen to morale if, for example, on three successive days three American planes, loaded with troops, were shot down, or something similar? Isn't it obvious that eventually something like this will happen, and the outcry will be uncontainable? And therefore it is time now to use the occasion of these damned elections to announce that we are leaving, having trained X number of troops. First we will withdraw from the major cities, beginning with the most dangerous ones. Then we can decide what arms to give the Kurds (who can always be resupplied by air). Then let the Sunni and Shi'a Arabs handle each other, while we watch. If they establish a modus vivendi, okay. If they don't, also okay.

And get on with the business of, through all means, depriving the Saudis of their discretionary incomes. That can be done in several ways. One, with a government program (no reliance on the Invisible Hand here -- the free market did not pay for the Manhattan Project, and it won't be enough here) to lessen not "American dependence on foreign oil" (this is a meaningless goal, since what is desired is limiting Saudi, Kuwaiti, U.A.E., Iranian sales). Second, put constant spotlights on the Saudi wealth and, having cut off all Infidel foreign aid to Muslim states, suggest that they get their money from their fellow rich members in the umma al-islamiyya. Let the rich Arabs be under constant political pressure to share with the poor Arabs and other Muslims. It may not work, but every dollar that the Saudis have to give Eygpt, or Somalia, to pay for bread and cooking-oil, is a dollar less for mosques, madrasas, and armaments.

Second, no arms for the Muslims, or not much more than rifles, jeeps, and zumookers.

Third, destroy Iran's nuclear facilities.

Fourth, instead of all that debt-relief and foreign aid that has been used to bribe Pakistan, make Musharraf an offer that he and his henchmen really can't refuse. Turn over those nuclear weapons (we won't announce it, General Musharraf; you can pretend to your own people that you still possess them -- but we have to have them, or Pakistan's recent economic recovery will be over, and permanently).

Fifth, make clear that there will be specific consequences for any major terrorist attack in the West. The Soviet Union by and large behaved itself, or misbehaved within limits, because it had been given to understand that if it did X, America would do Y. And Y was very unpleasant. What have Al-Qaeda, or Hezbollah, or Laskar Jihad, or a hundred other groups, been given to understand will happen if, for example, planes are shot down at Heathrow, or the Louvre is blown up? What about beginning to make clear that all Muslims will be promptly expelled from the dar al-harb? Or that access to medical care and education, for Arab and Muslim elites, will be cut off? Or all conceivable transactions, save for the buying of oil? Or why not spend far less than is now being spent in Iraq, and seize the oilfields of al-Hasa,in eastern Saudi Arabia (conveniently located right on the Persian Gulf, so that ships can be loaded) and offer the local Shi'a not only autonomy, but a much greater share in the oil revenues -- and while we are at it, offer to share that oil wealth with poor countries around the world, including perhaps a few Muslim ones, all in the name of equity?

Are these things all beyond possiblilty? Are we really stuck with Iraq, Iraq, Iraq? Is that the limit of our imagination? And what, now that Iraq has been disarmed, is in it for us? Are all those Iraqis going to be so busy running for aldermen and dogcatcher that they won't have time to lend a hand, or a few weapons, to the Jihad? Or will Saudi Arabia simply melt at the sight of what is going on in Iraq, and its leaders will decide to go and do likewise? Is that what everyone is expecting?

Hugh-

Once again, you've put down eloquently and explicitly what I have been emailing to those watching the screens at:

president@whitehouse.gov

since September 12, 2001. E.G.:

Those who pussyfoot end up declawed.

I can only hope the next batch of leaders have not only a spine but somthing at the top end of it other than a glorified hatrack.

But it will take a 9/11 times ten, at least, to grow that organ.

Meanwhile, Busho fiddles while Baghdad burns.

Naseem

I as an American think that we should stay in Iraq. Islamic Jihad is still alive and well, we should stay in Iraq until its dead and buried.

Moslems should look at Vietnam, America lost 50,000 men while inflicting over 1 million casualties.

Naseem, the Moslem world couldn’t put up a half hearted fight, to say their beloved Moslem countries.
How do you think they will handle losing 200,000+ Jihadist?

Osama Bin Laden destroyed two building and killed under 3,000 people.
America has destroyed two Moslem regimes and killed 50,000+ people.
Fair trade?

Yet your Qur’an claims Allah will protect the Moslems from us infidels? Guess NOT!

It should say..... to save their beloved Moslem countries.

Another Great Post HUGH! A very good question, why are the American Taxpayers funding the war in Iraq which is costing billions and getting NOWHERE?? There may be some liberal Iraqis educated in the West who want Democracy but the rest are living in the Stone Age and frankly, seem to want to stay there.
Also watched TV footage of New Zealanders who helped to rebuild hospitals and schools and were only in Iraq for Humanitarian reasons but got shot at just the same.
Was struck by lack of gratitude : the
Hospital Doctors never said a word of thanks but demanded more medical supplies and a Female Doctor
ordered carpenters etc who were building new toilets not to use the corridor as the sight of them upset usual burka ,hijab female patients...
A little O.T but saw a picture of Erdogan and his
Hijab pious Missus. Secular, you must be kidding!!
KEEP TURKEY OUT OF E.U. By the way, article on Al Jazeera denies Armenian Genocide.

Naseem spluttered:
Mr Rikki,

Good day to you. Everyone wants he Americas to go ...even the Americans want Americans to go.

Alas you miss the point though....they want them to go on their terms no yours...i.e. not after elections and a democratic process installed but but Americans leaving as a rag tag cowering bunch with their tails betwen their legs.

Thats Mr.Mr.Rikki to you.....

Nice to see your still an idiot Nazza.

Tell me after all the killing thats taken place in Iraq, don't you think most of the people there are fed-up with it, and just want the elections to take place now??? They do, exept for the spiteful, racist, islamo-facist sunni minorities that can't stand the thought of western democracy "poisoning" yet another former victim of islamic oppression. Zarqawis pack of rats are fighting a losing battle now. Why don't they realise that most iraqis are fed up of living under the rule of tyranny, and the idea of a wahabbi utopia probably doesn't sit with them too well neither.
If Zarqawi and his goons had any respect for the Iraqi people, then he and his vultures would get the hell out of there, like I wish our american friends would.

In a posting above, written in haste, I refer to "rifles, jeeps" and "zumookers." No such animal. I should have written "zumbooruks."

For the Snark was a Boojum, you see.

The scenes of devastation and faces of suffering children, adults move me but what strikes fear in my heart (along with the desire to do the right thing) is how I will answer to G-d when asked why I callously turned my face away from those in need.

As it says in Ecclesiastics:

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose ...

Posted by: Kemaste at January 12, 2005 02:47 PM

AND today will you send money to help the love ones who lost theirs by the Islamic Terrorist Killers in Israel??

Will you feed the Tiger who ate your children??

There is a point where you have to Fight against an enemy who will do yours harm!!

We have helped the people of the Killer wave and know they[mulsums] want us to go away I say let them help themselves??

New #s Indoneisa alone 210,000 mulsums dead???

You can kick a dead horse but that will not make him go??

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM AMEN

We're going to increase the pressure on these Jihadis. They're going to cry mercy. In fact, some are as this is being typed.

http://www.dsispecialaccess.net/arabic_decipher

If the US could stop interfering in everybody's countries, especially the ones that are unfortunate enough to have oil beneath their soil, then the world would be a peaceful place, and Americans would not have to live in fear.

AS for the idea that radical Muslims want world domination: does this not echo US aims?

'Our overriding purpose, from the beginning through to the present day, has been world domination - that is, to build and maintain the capacity to coerce everybody else on the planet, non-violently if possible and violently if necessary. But the purpose of the US foreign policy of domination is not just to make the rest of the world jump through hoops - the purpose is to facilitate our exploitation of resources.'
(RAmsey Clark, Former US Attorney General)

Anyway, Nostradamus predicted the final triumph of Islam.

White Queen,
If islamic warmongers would stop killing innocent people that just happen to not be muslims, commiting terrorism, causing wars on every continent, then maybe the west wouldn't have to interfere.

As for your oil bullshit, I don't particularly like the thought of Saudi Arabia getting an easy ride by Bush and Blair because they're fortunate enough to have shit-loads of oil, but it's something we may have to tolerate a wee bit longer. Iraq is sod-all to do with oil BTW.