The jihad continues in Iraq -- this time apparently targeting the election victors. From AP, with thanks to JE:
Twin explosions during Friday prayers outside Shi'ite mosques in Baghdad have killed about 30 people and injured dozens, officials said.The first blast occurred in Baghdad's southern Dora neighbourhood near the al-Khadimain mosque and reportedly killed 30, Iraqi National Guard 1st Lieutenant Ahmad Ali said.
The mosque's imam, he said, was making appeals for blood donations.
A second blast, apparently caused by a mortar attack, occurred outside the Al Qura mosque in a predominantly Shi'ite neighbourhood of western Baghdad, Lieutenant Colonel Jalal Sabry of the local police station said.
(Working with my wife at her job today, everyone stay safe!)
Today’s OT news and commentary, Always Jihad Related, Truth never to be silenced.
Campus for carnage:
http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=17078
12 step program:
http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=17051
I wonder if infidel blood would be accepted.... I doubt it.
Looks like "Freedom is on the march!!!" in Iraq. I can't wait for the BuShi'ite RULERS of Iraq to implement their "Freedom" agenda: Sharia.
LOL... you gotta love that Gary. He wakes up in the morning and the first thing he thinks about is how he can vilify the liberals today. Too bad Gary doesn't actually have what it takes to debate, then he would be able to get all that angst out of his system.
Today’s OT news and commentary, Always Jihad Related, Truth never to be silenced.
LOL... you really are full of yourself, you know that? "Truth never to be silenced"... LOL... why not try "Talent on loan from god"?
You should just come out and say, "Today's OT news and commentary, Always Liberal Related, Talent on loan from god."
What Israel is to Islam, so liberals are to Gary. You know someone is full of BS when they have the same answer to everything.
Gary refuses to debate, typical of what one has to do when truth just isn't on their side. For instance, maybe Gary would be kind enough to explain to this idiot liberal how Ward Churchill has more influence that David Horowitz, or how Lynne Stewart has more influence that James Baker.
Gary?
KJ:
Why must you assume that as the Iraqi elections took place under the aegis of the invasion that Bush ordered, that nothing good will result?
Dr. Nimrod Raphaeli, an Iraqi-born Jew who serves as a senior analyst of Middle East Economic Studies with MEMRI doubts that Iraq will adopt Sharia. He notes that the coalition of competing Shi'ite parties (SCIRI and al-Dawa) only form a plurality and that coalition still includes the secular Iraqi National Congress of Ahmad Chalabi. Further, the Kurds also form a sizeable presence and favour the separation of powers and giving primacy in legislation to democracy over religion. Raphaeli sees the Kurds allying with Allawi.
Ward Churchill has influence? Maybe in the minds of people who are already communist jihadist liberals like you. I heard him speak on C-span...its entertaining to see how someone can become so delusional about something as stupid and ridiculous as communism and all of these nihlistic and paranoid ideas associated with it that college profs. seem to like to come up with. Have they ever lived in reality?...or are they living in their 1960s drug warped minds and trying to apply and force their psychopathic delusions on the real world.
The influence that the Ward Churchills of the world have are much more deadly than KJ and General Patton would allow. Although a lot of people have the critical thinking skills and historic knowledge to see him for what he is, many do not, and university students are very vulnerable to the influence of their teachers.
As for Lynne Stewart, she may not have a mass following, but some of her clients do have a coterie of followers who are ready to die for what her creepy clients preach and take a lot of other people with them on their quest for 72 virgins.
What is the truth then, kj? And since when was this about discussing the "influence" of various minor characters? What's wrong with Shiite's having the leading voice in Iraq? Last I checked, they comprised about sixty percent of the population.
And really, so what if they decide to base their constitution on the Koran and Sharia? Thats up to them. But really, this webpage is about recognizing that Islamic law and society (in its current form) and Western society are incompatible.
I read both of those links. The second one was a bunch of bullshit. But the first bothers me. I don't want that in my country.
waterdragon52:
I wasn't saying that this Churchill psychopath wasn't dangerous. The C-span showing had a whole auditorium full of students clapping for his statements. I just wonder if they really realize what the alternatives are...Sharia...a communist dictatorship...or that most of them will be killed to bring about this great revolution to bring heaven on earth...or to perfect humanity...or whatever they think is going to happen.
The damage done by Ward Churchhill is verbal and those who listen are small in number, however the real damage done by Bush/Cheney and the neo cons is observable, instead of fighting Islamists, they are creating Islamists and Islamic Republics wherever they leave their fingerprints.
The "Democratic" record of Bush/Cheney
Let's see family friends and business partners with the family who made Islamic terrorism an international affair - the Saudis.
Gary chooses to ignore this "anamoly".
A waste of international good will, the blood of our
youth, and our national prosperity, invading and occupying Afghanistan and Iraq, to leave them both as Islamic Republics with Shari'a as basis of constitution and law.
Even the "neo con" Wolfowitz, eulogized Ayatollah al Hakim, after his assassination, comparing him to Abraham Lincoln.
Cheney was a member of the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA) and as such instrumental in the PNAC document, drawn up before 9-11 to invade Iraq, but he was also a Senior Advisor to the Azerbaijan Chamber of Commerce
Azerbaijan is 93.4% Muslim
Not carried in the major news is the fact that this administration is 100% behind the Muslim majority in Kosovo that are oppressing and murdering the increasingly minority Serbs.
Nor are we told that Haliburton (Cheney) has built and is maintaining the largest and most expensive military installation in the world (Camp Bondsteel) in Kosovo, sitting astride a projected pipeline from the Caspian sea, or that there is another military camp in Kosovo (Camp Monteith) or the miliary installation in Muslim Bosnia (Camp Eagel).
Nor are we told that Bosnia is a hotbed of radical Islamism, whose Imam's are young (30 and 20's) mujtahedeen. And that this administration and NATO are propping up and supporing the Bosnian Muslims.
Gary seems to forget that the Kosovorian Albanians and Bosnian Muslims have a history of Jew hating fanaticism and provided troops to the Waffen SS, there was of course the Kosovarian Skanderberg Division and the Muslim Croatian (Bosnian)Handjar (Handschar)Division.Yet this administration, and previous, including Sen Joe Lieberman, have supported the Muslims in the Balkans.
Bush and the neo cons,have brought into power in Iraq, the Extremist Islamist Supreme Council for the Islamic REvolution in Iraq (SCIRI) and an Islamic republic modeled on Iran.
Iraqi Interim Constitution
Article A makes clear that Shari'a is the law of the land
Article B makes clear that Iraqi Arabs are part of the pan Arab or Arab Nationalist movement (Nasser or the Ba'aths)
Afghanistan an Islamic Nation
Afghanistan Draft Constitution
Compare the above Constitutions to The Iranian Constitution
Bush's war on terrorism, has only managed to geometrically expand the number of Islamist terrorists cells of the Muslim Brotherhood, but also to provide an Islamist recruiting and training ground in Iraq, with Islamists flying in from all over the world to fight the "infidel".
And just think, prior to the invasion Iraq was a hostile terroritory for Islamists, and Saddam was considered a murtadd (apostate, against whom Osama had issued a fatwa).
Prior to the invasion we never heard of Ansar al Sunnah, the Unity and Jihad Brigade of this or that group, or any of the other hundreds of Islamist groups that have come to life and are getting training and experience in Iraq.
We didn't hear of them, because they didn't exist, Saddam snuffed them out as soon as they reared their heads.
The only group he tolerated was the (anti mllahcracy of Iran) Mujahedeen e-Khalq, a leftist Muslim Jihad group that had been waging war against the Mullahs of Iran since the Ayatollah Khomeini; driven out of Iran they found succor in Iraq, but their attention was focused always towards Iran.
Here is what the International Institute for Strategic Studies[says in Strategic Survey 2003/4
And KJ I consider myself a social liberal, but can't define myself left or right, other than I deplore and fear the fascist tendencies of those who consider themselves "conservative"or right today. (I'm actually an old Goldwater conservative, who has, as Goldwater did, matured overtime).
But I just heard Ward Churchill a few minutes ago on Democracy Now, being interviewed by Amy Goodman, and to tell you the truth he turns my liberal stomach. As does Lynne Stewart, who actually passed public instructions from the blind Sheikh.
I am disgusted in many ways with the oligarchy, and the unholy alliance of the corporate/religious right, but I am also disgusted with the unholy Red/Green/Brown alliance of Socialists, Muslims and Jew Hating Christians.
While I acknowledge Israel's right to exist, and hope they prevail against the Islamics who wish to wipe out the Jews, and subject them to dhimmitude.
I am also considered an antisemite, because I am simultaneously anti Zionist, and a "Holocaust Tm" denier. Resenting and considering as dangerous to the Jews, and the gentile, the Holocaust industry and the negative impact it has had on free speech, because the laws once enacted to protect the Jews from criticism, are now being used (especially in Europe) to protect the Muslims, whose numbers, power and strength is growing.
Point of all this is that this is NOT a simplisitic left v right issue.
The native conservative inclinations of Americans are being used and manipulated by corporate and financial elites, and against their own long term best interests, while in international affairs, they are not doing what people think they are doing. They are not fighting a war on Islamist terrorism, but actually providing a training and recruiting ground for them in Iraq, and simulataneously, through policies and actions, promoting the fanatic, self pitying, supremacy of Arab/Muslim solidarity.
What's the Matter with Kansas How the Republican Party, the corporate elite, have destroyed America, rent it in two, and are eliminating the working middle class, with the working middle class cheerleading their own destruction.
And at the other extreme we have the self hating Americans, the irrational socialists and leftists, hoping to destroy what is left of this country, even willing to commit suicide to advance the cause of international Jihad.
Why would that be? Economically, and in class theory, both socialism and Islam are "theoretically" eqalitarians. In Islam property is "theoretically" owned by the Ummah, but is controlled by the mujtahid whose socio economic power, prestige and wealth depend on that control over their populations (their ummah).
But socially, civil and human rights, Islam and the Christian right share the same values, fears and needs, as both are patriarchial, misogynistic (yes Christianity is misogynistic, just not as extreme as Islam) and homophobic. Both Islam and Christianity have as their core - patriarchial family values.
I see no difference at all, in the social structure between Islamic theocracy and Dominion Theology, aka Christian Reconstructionism,or the Noachide Movement
Under the Noachide Laws
From where I, a secularist, a free thinker sit, I see no difference in their final effect to distinguish the Noachide, Dominionist Theocracy from a Mullahcracy. For instance they would all decapitate or stone people to death for blasphemy, and adultery.
The basics of Christianity, peace, love, forgiveness are antithetical to Islam, and sadly to Judaism as well. Do unto others as you would have done unto you is in Deuteronomy, An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, which is also distinctly Arab and Muslim.
Posted by: Giaour at February 16, 2005 03:59 PM
"Do unto others as you would have done unto you is in Deuteronomy"
Yes, Giaour, WHAT YOU WOULD HAVE OTHERS DO UNTO YOU, in other words, the way you, yourself, would wish to be treated.
How do you equate that with "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, which is also distinctly Arab and Muslim." and how does the former support your contentio that peace, love and forgivemenss are antithetical to Judaism.
If you can't get something as simple as the meaning and intent of, "Do unto others" correctly, maybe you should show a little more restraint before running off at the keyboard the way you do.
ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS
I get into arguments with Muslims, who whine about being persecuted by the Jews, and how the neo con policy is really a Zionist anti Islamic plot.
And in response I mention the following anomalies.
The neo cons are mostly secular Jews, Marxists of the Trotsky persuasion.Need I post a roll call, from Adelman, and Kristol to Wolfowitz?
The so called left (such as ANSWER) and the "intellectuals" that advocate for the
Islamists are also mostly secular Jews of the Marxist anti Trotsky persuasion
The Balkans:
Sen Joe Lieberman, other Jewish Senators, the neo cons, NATO, all interfered to protect the Muslims of Croatia (Bosnia) and Kosovo from the the Greek Orthodox Serbs and Roman Catholic Croats.
Kosovo is now a virtual Albanian Muslim country, and the Orthodox Serbs that have not been driven out are persecuted, dispossessed and murdered, and yet the neo cons not only do nothing, but continue to support the Muslim Kosovairan Albanians.
Albanian is becoming yet again, a Muslim theocracy, with the tacit approval of the neo cons.
We invaded Afghanistan, threw out the Taliban, but replaced it with the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan(Dowlat-e Eslami-ye Afghanestan} Republic, Hamid Kharzai(besides having been an advisor to UNOCAL) is a Shi'a and was and women are no better off now than then, they still have to wear Burqa's, and there is no real freedom and democarcy as we know it.And Afghanistans constitution, like Iraq's proclaim it an Islamic Republic with Islamic Law (Shari'a) the basis of Constitution and Law.
Democracy means simply majority rule, and the majority in those countries are Muslims.
We wasted our blood and money invading Iraq, and have alienated most of the world in the process, and have solidified the world wide Muslim hatred towards America, created a recruiting and training ground for Jihadists from all over the world, and for what? To create an Islamic Republic in the model of Iran.
Meanwhile the Bush/Cheney family and corporate elite are bossom buddies and business partners with the chief financiers and supporters of Islamism - the Saudis. See Paul Ungers House of Bush House of Saud, Freedom Houses recent document on Saudi funding of Hate literature. Prince Bandar has slept 14 times in the Lincoln Bedroom, visits Bush's "ranch" at Crawford and is known in the family as Bandar Bush, and are business partners with the family in The Carlyle Group.
Tony Blair, Bush's partner in the WoT, has recently expanded Britains Hate Speech Laws,to provide special protection to the Muslims.One can get 7 to 10 years in Prison for mentioning that the perp in an honor killing, rape or murder was a Muslim (Shades of the Armanious coverup). Muslims in Britain are a protected and privileged minority.
These and other anomalies are ignored, denied, obfuscated and rationalized by the Islamists, and they are also ignored, obfuscated and rationalized by the Bush Botsand anti Jihadis, like most of the posters on this blog.
Peas in a pod, the Islamists and Bush bots have more in common than not, in many ways.
Gees I see that I stepped on some Jewish sensitivities. I have a tendency to do that, as I really step hard on Muslim sensitivities and Christian as well.
The meaning and intent of Do unto others is Christian, the Christian interpretation of the words of Jesus. The Jewish parallel is An Eye for an eye.
Actually the words of Jesus in the oldest extant Greek Version, translate thus: That which others would do unto you, do you also unto them So sayeth the prophet so sayeth the Law
And as you know the Law is Leviticus, and Leviticus states An Eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, it does not state anywhere in the Torah or TeNACH, do unto others as you would wish others to do unto you.
As regards the Christian concept of peace, love and forgiveness being antithetical to Judaism, well my friend it is (as regards the Ger or Goy), you see long before I read the Qur'an (to counter the Islamic propaganda and taqiyyah) I studied the bible, in fact I'm a biblical scholar of sorts, read it through the first time at age 14, and have many versions, both hard copy and on my hard drive, including Greek and Hebrew.
The forgiveness of the Torah, where it exists, exists only as regards other members of the tribe, not the Ger. An example is the Jubilee year.
Giaour:
Deuteronomy, which you, yourself cite as the reference from which you took "do unto others" is the Fifth Book of Moses -- the Tanach, or as you might have it, the Old Testment.
Perhaps you are flattering yourself just a bit in claiming to be a bible scholar.
Sigh... here we go again. I may not have time today to answer all monkey hoots, but probably can get them all this weekend.
waterdragon: Why must you assume that as the Iraqi elections took place under the aegis of the invasion that Bush ordered, that nothing good will result?
I never said that. Nothing good will result; not because of Bush, but rather because democracy is the last thing the world needs in a nation of religiously-insane jihadis. The fact that Bush enabled the Shi'ites to take over has nothing to do with the fact that no good will result. But it is the reason that "democracy" was brought to Iraq to begin with.
Yeah, the "democracy" in Malaysia is going reeeal well for the outvoted non-Muslims, isn't it?
Dr. Nimrod
Wait. You're kidding right?
... Raphaeli, an Iraqi-born Jew who serves as a senior analyst of Middle East Economic Studies with MEMRI doubts that Iraq will adopt Sharia. (blah blah blah spin spin)... sees the Kurds allying with Allawi.
Man! I wish there was some kind of way that we could bet money on this. I could make a fortune. Hopefully I won't be banned with Sharia is "voted in" and will be able to remind you that you said A former Iraqi said it wouldn't happen. Let's ask Mr. Spencer what HE thinks about the matter: Mr. Spencer, what say you sir? Sharia in Iraq in less that five years, or no?
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"General Patton":Ward Churchill has influence? Maybe in the minds of people who are already communist jihadist liberals like you.
You stupid monkey. I feel like that guy in the superbowl commercials, "Hey, Andy? This report doesn't make sense... that phone didn't ring. You're not talking to anyone. Hello? Yes, I know about that. I'll take care of it myself. Sorry, but I work with a bunch of monkeys."
You are actually SUPPORTING my contention that Ward Churchill DOESN'T have that much influence, especially compared to the right-wing academic David Horowitz.
I don't like the a-hole either. (Out of respect for the Lion Of England, I won't refer to him as "Churchill" but rather "Ward Churchill" "Professor Churchill," etc.) I said here before that a bunch of 9-11 orphans should attend all of his classes a exercise their freedom of speech to tell him what they think of him.
That being said, Prof. Churchill is an American and has the right to say what he wants. He is a tenured professor and has the right to teach whatever he wants. If no one takes his classes, I guess he'll be S.O.O.L. Prof. Churchill is also a Native American, so if he has a beef with the systems that destroyed his culture, his people, his ancestors, his heritage, I will give him a little slack... I still say, and will always say, that he is an a-hole for saying what he said, but then again, some people actually say the same thing about ME. (No; really.)
I heard him speak on C-span...its entertaining to see how someone can become so delusional about something as stupid and ridiculous [blah blah blah luvya Rush] and force their psychopathic delusions on the real world.
Funny, you don't sound like you were "entertained." You call yourself "General Patton." You must think a lot of yourself. What have you done in your life that makes you worthy of taking the name of General Patton? Are you a veteran? A combat veteran? A WW Two vet? A REAL General? Or just some trashtalking wretch trying to impress someone?
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The influence that the Ward Churchills of the world have are much more deadly than KJ and General Patton would allow.
Well, since the "anti-Jihadi" crowd is stridently anti-liberal, and most college educated people are libearl, that shouldn't surprise you. That's why I beg my conservative friends here to PLEASE tone down the rhetoric. But you can see the positive effect this has had...
Although a lot of people have the critical thinking skills and historic knowledge to see him for what he is, many do not, and university students are very vulnerable to the influence of their teachers.
That is a bunch of ca-ca. Have you learned everything you know about college from hate radio and FAUX news? I just graduated from college last year (at 38 years old) and believe me, college teachers can't even influence their students to pull up their pants and comb their hair, much less study, and MUCH, MUCH less get them to change their political viewpoints.
The biggest problem I saw at USF (Al Aryan's former employer) is the STUDENTS influencing other students. Why don't you lay of the teachers? You monkeys have been blaming teachers for all of society's woes for decades now. Just get off it. If you don't want you kids to go off to college and become Commies/homos/liberals/muslims, then send them to a right-wing college like Pepperdine, Liberty, Heritage, or Bob Jones.
As for Lynne Stewart, she may not have a mass following, but some of her clients do have a coterie of followers who are ready to die for what her creepy clients preach and take a lot of other people with them on their quest for 72 virgins.
And as I have said before, I hope they send her to a MALE prison, where see can see another side of Islam. And the Muslims can see another side of her: the inside (shudder!).
Now, can we talk for a moment about James Baker, and his clients that have NATIONS FULL of followers who are ready to die for what her creepy clients preach and take a lot of other people with them on their quest for 72 virgins?
Well? Who has more influence? Career shyster Lynne Stewart of (former Secretary of State) James Baker?
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What is the truth then, kj?
The truth is that jihadi apologists come in all stripes and persuasions. But you pretend to be all upset with only the liberals ones, just like your side pretended to really, really hate draftdodgers, but only from 1992-1999.
AND you pretended to really hate opportunistic politicians that seek office in a state in which they don't live, until Alan Keyes did it.
AND you pretend to have a lot of respect for combat veterans. Until one of them runs for office against an "R".
AND the GOP is becoming a cult of personality centered around Dub for now, but soon to be Jeb or Aaah-nold. Conservative values mean nothing, like fiscal responsibility, self-dependence, "individual rights", no nation-building, etc. etc.
That's the truth.
And since when was this about discussing the "influence" of various minor characters?
Well, you monkeys hoot and scream and hurl your feces through the bars over a minor character like Lynne Stewart helps a jihadi and Ward Churchill blames America for 911, yet say nothing about BIG players like Jerry Falwell and James Baker doing the saaaame thing, only to a much HIGHER degree. Remember Falwell's quote, whiel the death count was still uncertain? He blamed the ACLU, the feminists, the homosexuals, and the atheists. No big deal though, he's got an "R" after his name. Thou hypocrit.
What's wrong with Shiite's having the leading voice in Iraq? Last I checked, they comprised about sixty percent of the population.
Nothing, assuming that you want another Iran, this one hundreds of miles closer to Israel and Europe, in possession of trillions of barrels of oil.
And really, so what if they decide to base their constitution on the Koran and Sharia?
Just imagine if Al Gore was doing this, and I think that you could come up with some objections (like that used-to-be conservative ban on nation building.)
Thats up to them.
Yeah, now it is. Thanks to Lord Bush.
But really, this webpage is about recognizing that Islamic law and society (in its current form) and Western society are incompatible.
So why did Gary post a link first thing this morning about Ward Churchill?
I'll redden the rest of the monkey asses this weekend.
KJ
I am not sure what Giaour's position is, except that he emanates hatred enough for a whole battalion of suicide bombers. I wonder whether he and Catherine will ever meet - if they do, they will either fall into bed or generate enough heat to meet both icecaps. (But no light at all.)
"Prof. Churchill is also a Native American, so if he has a beef with the systems that destroyed his culture, his people, his ancestors, his heritage, I will give him a little slack..
Posted by kj at February 18, 2005 03:20 PM
WARD CHURCHILL IS A FRAUD:
If Ward Churchill loses his job teaching at the University of Colorado, he could end up giving Howard Dean a real run for his money to head the Democratic National Committee.
Churchill already has a phony lineage and phony war record – just like John Kerry! (Someone should also check out Churchill's claim that he spent Christmas 1968 at Wounded Knee.) In 1983, Churchill met with Libyan dictator Moammar Gadhafi and later felt it necessary to announce that his group, the American Indian Movement, "has not requested arms from the Libyan government." In 1997, he was one of the "witnesses" who spoke at a "Free Mumia" event in Philadelphia on behalf of convicted cop-killer Mumia Abu-Jamal.
Come to think of it, Churchill could give Hillary a run for her money. All that's left for Churchill to do now is meet with Al Sharpton and kiss Suha Arafat.
Churchill's claim that he is an Indian isn't an incidental boast, like John Kerry pretending to be Irish. It is central to his career, his writing, his political activism. Churchill has been the co-director of the American Indian Movement of Colorado, the vice chairperson of the American Indian "Anti-Defamation" Council, and an associate professor and coordinator of American Indian Studies at the University of Colorado.
By Churchill's own account, a crucial factor in his political development was "being an American Indian referred to as 'chief' in a combat unit" in Vietnam, which made him sad. This is known to con men everywhere as a "two-fer."
In addition to an absence of evidence about his Indian heritage, there is an absence of evidence that he was in combat in Vietnam. After the POW Network revealed that Churchill had never seen combat, he countered with this powerful argument: "They can say whatever the hell they want. That's confidential information, and I've never ordered its release from the Department of Defense. End of story." Maybe we should ask John Kerry to help Churchill fill out a form 180.
In one of his books, "Struggle for the Land," Churchill advances the argument that one-third of America is the legal property of Indians. And if you believe Churchill is a real Indian, he also happens to be part owner of the Brooklyn Bridge.
In his most famous oeuvre, the famed 9-11 essay calling the 9-11 World Trade Center victims "little Eichmanns," he said "Arab terrorists" – his quotes – had simply "responded to the massive and sustained American terror bombing of Iraq" by giving Americans "a tiny dose of their own medicine."
Having blurted out "Iraq" in connection with 9-11 in a moment of pique, Churchill had to backpedal when the anti-war movement needed to argue that Iraq had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Arab terrorism. He later attached an "Addendum" to the essay saying that the 9-11 attack was not only payback for Iraq, but also for various other of this country's depredations especially against "real Indians" (of which he is not one).
In light of the fact that Churchill's entire persona, political activism, curriculum vitae, writings and university positions are based on his claim that he's an Indian, it's rather churlish of him to complain when people ask if he really is one. But whenever he is questioned about his heritage, Churchill rails that inquiries into his ancestry are "absolutely indefensible."
Churchill has gone from claiming he is one-eighth Indian "on a good day" to claiming he is "three-sixteenths Cherokee," to claiming he is one-sixty-fourth Cherokee through a Revolutionary War era ancestor named Joshua Tyner. (At least he's not posing as a phony Indian math professor.) A recent investigation by the Denver Post revealed that Tyner's father was indeed married to a Cherokee. But that was only after Joshua's mother – and Churchill's relative – was scalped by Indians.
By now, all that's left of Churchill's claim to Indian ancestry is his assertion: "It is just something that was common knowledge in my family." (That, and his souvenir foam-rubber "tommyhawk" he bought at Turner Field in Atlanta.)
Over the years, there were other subtle clues the university might have noticed.
Churchill is not in the tribal registries kept since the 1800s by the federal government.
No tribe will enroll him – a verification process Churchill dismisses as "poodle papers" for Indians.
In 1990, Churchill was forced to stop selling his art as "Indian art" under federal legislation sponsored by then-representative – and actual Indian! – Ben Nighthorse Campbell, that required Indian artists to establish that they are accepted members of a federally recognized tribe. Churchill responded by denouncing the Indian artist who had exposed him. (Hey, does anybody need 200 velvet paintings of Elvis playing poker with Crazy Horse?)
In the early '90s, he hoodwinked an impecunious Cherokee tribe into granting him an "associate membership" by telling them he "wrote some books and was a big-time author." A tribal spokeswoman explained: He "convinced us he could help our people." They never heard from him again – yet another treaty with the Indians broken by the white man. Soon thereafter, the tribe stopped offering "associate memberships."
A decade ago, Churchill was written up in an article in News From Indian Country, titled, "Sovereignty and Its Spokesmen: The Making of an Indian." The article noted that Churchill had claimed membership in a scrolling series of Indian tribes, but over "the course of two years, NFIC hasn't been able to confirm a single living Indian relative, let alone one real relative that can vouch for his tribal descent claim."
When real Indians complained to Colorado University in 1994 that a fake Indian was running their Indian Studies program, a spokeswoman for the CU president said the university needed "to determine if the position was designated for a Native American. And I can't answer that right now." Apparently it was answered in Churchill's favor since he's still teaching.
If he's not an Indian, it's not clear what Churchill does have to offer a university. In his book, "A Little Matter of Genocide: Holocaust and Denial in the Americas, 1492 to the Present," Churchill denounces Jews for presuming to imagine the Holocaust was unique. In the chapter titled "Lie for Lie: Linkages between Holocaust Deniers and Proponents of the Uniqueness of the Jewish Experience in World War II," Churchill calls the Third Reich merely "a crystallization" of Christopher Columbus' ravages of his people (if he were an Indian).
His research apparently consisted of watching the Disney movie "Pocahontas," which showed that the Indians meant the European settlers no harm. (That's if you don't count the frequent scalpings.)
Even the credulous Nation magazine – always on red alert for tales of government oppression – dismissed Churchill's 1988 book "Agents of Repression" about Cointelpro-type operations against the American Indian Movement, saying the book "does not give much new information" and "even a reader who is inclined to believe their allegations will want more evidence than they provide." If The Nation won't buy your anti-U.S. government conspiracy theories, Kemosabe, it's probably time to pack up the old teepee and hit the trail of tears.
In response to the repeated complaints from Indians that a phony Indian was running CU's Indian Studies program, Churchill imperiously responded: "Guess what that means, guys? I'm not taking anyone's job, there wouldn't be an Indian Studies program if I wasn't coordinating it ... They won't give you a job just because you have the paper." This white man of English and Swiss-German descent apparently believes there are no actual Indians deserving of his position at CU. (No wonder the Indians aren't crazy about him.)
As long as we're all agreed that there are some people who don't deserve jobs at universities, why isn't Churchill one of them?
KJ:
But wouldn't you classify yourself as an "anti-jihadi"?
I earned my college dip 12 years ago at the age of 40. My impressions of the influence university profs have on students, however, are drawn from current conversations, most often with the university students who serve me coffee every weekday morning in the local Starbucks and what they understand about the political environment, for example the highly misleading stats about Palestinian deaths vs Israeli deaths (as taught in class), or a young Jewish student who was working over the ticketholders' line at the Toronto Jewish Film Festival trying to push the one-state solution option because that's what her teachers at York U taught her was the surest way to peacefully accommodate both [Jewish] Israelis and Palestinians.
I don't know where you attended college, but the academic environment here in Toronto is very highly charged, with a lot of pro-Palestinian propaganda and activity actively promoted by faculty in all sorts of disciplines. Concordia, in Montreal is even worse.
And talk of "reddening monkey asses" really distinguishes you intellectually, as did your description of your planned activities on Election Day (knocking heads, or something like that, wasn't it?)
cross -
Hear, hear. Not that it has much actually to do with resisting Jihad - the one thing Churchill has not tried is becoming a Muslim; I wonder why? - but Churchill is a disgrace. He is the sort of adventurer that gives university teachers a bad name. If it is true that the Indian Studies program was set up for him, then that means that a whole university has allowed itself to be led by the nose, to be used for the careerist ambitions, of an unqualified snake-oil salesman.
This sort of thing happens. Twenty years ago I graduated from Britain's top university college for Asian and African studies. I came to know a lecturer who had spent several years lobbying to set up a Religious Studies department. He was neither senior nor qualified enough for this, but he was persistent. Among other things, he started posturing as the leader of the local Christians, all but ousting the college chaplain - a decent Anglican man who hated him for very good reason - running prayer groups, retreats, and so on. Yet I was able to see at close quarters how he seduced and utterly betrayed a young Christian undergraduate whom some members of the faculty hated for reasons connected with her faith. The faculty wanted this young woman out and the "Christian" leader obliged, spreading rumours and breaking confidences. Clearly this did not do him any harm, since a year or two afterwards his Religious Studies Department was set up - with himself as head. Churchill is not the first or the second person to achieve tenure and rank by dishonest means; he is just one of the most repulsive.
Either you have reading comprehension problems or are obfuscating Water Dragon. Eye for an eye is in Exodus and Leviticus as well as Deuteronomy, but do unto others is nowhere in the Torah Or TeNACH, but only in the NT.
# Exodus 21:24
eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
# Exodus 21:27
And if he knocks out the tooth of a manservant or maidservant, he must let the servant go free to compensate for the tooth.
# Leviticus 24:20
fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth. As he has injured the other, so he is to be injured.
# Deuteronomy 19:21
Show no pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.
However in the NT
Matthew 5:38“You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[a] 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Matthew 7:12 "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye
even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
And yet again you manage to foul it all up waterdragon, or is it obfuscation on purpose.
And don't question my Biblical Scholarship, I'll eat you alive.
Hey Waterdragon:
The Golden Rule throughout history, alas it is not the Old Testament (TeNACH).
If I am wrong, then please provide me a quote, book, chapter verse to refute me, rather than handwaving.
"Do not to your neighbor what you would take ill from him." -- Pittacus,
650 BCE
"Do unto another what you would have him do unto you, and do not do unto
another what you would not have him do unto you. Thou needest this law
alone. It is the foundation of all the rest." -- Confucius, 500 BCE
"Avoid doing what you would blame others for doing." -- Thales, 464 BCE
"What you wish your neighbors to be to you, such be also to them." --
Sextus, a Pythagorean, 406 BCE
"We should conduct ourselves toward others as we would have them act toward
us." -- Aristotle, 385 BCE
"Cherish reciprocal benevolence, which will make you as anxious for
another's welfare as your own." -- Aristippus of Cyrene, 365 BCE
"Act toward others as you desire them to act toward you." -- Isocrates, 338
BCE
.
"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye
even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets." -- Jesus of
Nazareth, circa 30 CE
Ward Churchill will, single-handedly, bring about the end of tenure. Even Presidents and Supreme Court judges can be relieved of duty.
Who the Hell is Ward Churchill? -- a racing stripe in Boulder's drawers. Nobody. He will be canned; tenure will end.
The basics of Christianity, peace, love, forgiveness are antithetical to Islam, and sadly to Judaism as well. Do unto others as you would have done unto you is in Deuteronomy, An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, which is also distinctly Arab and Muslim.
Posted by: Giaour at February 16, 2005 03:59 PM
The basics of Christianity, peace, love, forgiveness are antithetical to Islam, and sadly to Judaism as well. Do unto others as you would have done unto you is in Deuteronomy, An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, which is also distinctly Arab and Muslim.
Posted by: Giaour at February 16, 2005 03:59 PM
You authored that one, not me.
Hah! Now, Ward Churchill is offering to sign a loyalty oath to keep his job. I can just see Ward and Paolo sharing a foxhole.
Yeah, right.
I see kj joined us today. I finally realized, all his point-by-point argument back, is simply reaction to us hitting too close to the Truth. Naturally that must be defended against.
Long day at the greenhouse... night all!
Dear Giaour
The forgiveness of the Torah, where it exists, exists only as regards other members of the tribe, not the Ger.....
I beg to differ....
(Leviticus 19:33) And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not do him wrong.
(Leviticus 19:34) The stranger that sojourneth with you shall be unto you as the home-born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were sojourners in the land of Egypt: I am Jehovah your God.
An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth was meant for those in government, example (Judges), not the individual. Jesus said he came not to destroy, but to fulfill. I believe you are suggesting that he came to destroy the old Testament (law).
Sincerely
Bar
Discussion getting very lively, eh! Lucky we still have Free Speech - certainly won't get this under Sharia.Am still reading about 'Mess' in Balkans. Ironically, turns out that Madeleine Korbel [Albright] and her family fled to Belgrade in Serbia for safety during WW 11!! We think our Liberals do the darndest things : here's an example of Jewish folly as 'Maddie' was instrumental in getting those who had protected her bombed again!!! On the 'so called evidence ' of satellite photos which were later disproved like most of the pro Muslim propaganda Media statements. Fancy Giaour is angry because there was an all out campaign to depict Serbs as the 'bad guys' and dismember their country. Whether readers like or not -THIS WAS AMERICAN POLICY. U.S were prepared to sacrifice unknown Serbs [without oil] for their Saudi buddies [with oil]. Okay, so most of the Serbs have been driven out of Kosovo and U.S have got an Albanian Tiger by the Tail - which can be counted on to bite and rend them [also that oil pipeline]. Note that the
'grateful Muslims' of Kosovo and Bosnia applauded
9/11 making U.S Military aware that they had made another booboo...
Truely amazing,the Muslims that lay claim to jesus in the Quran and profess to be part of the third Book from God,don't even know the facts about Jesus absolving all his followers from any punishment under the Ten Commandments from the Old Testiment.
It's simple,Love your neighbour as yourself,Love your enemies,forgive,help the poor,and show Gods love through your deeds.
Islam and the Quran was invented almost 700 years after Jesus AND after he warned of a "False Prophet" that would claim to speak for his Father by repeating past messages,he would premise peace but only bring war and suffering.
Sound familiar,know anybody that fits that
profile.
"Sons of Monkeys, sons of swine, I'm gonna make yer country mine, Hijack, carbombs, kill the Jews, kill the Chrisitans, make them News"...
Evereybody sing:" cut off a head for Al Jazeera, cut off a head for Al Jazeera..."
Sheik Yer'mami, 'Winds of Jihad"
http://www.terrorists-suck.org/fight/winds_of_jihad.html
SO ONCE AGAIN MORE MULSUMS KILL OTHER MULSUMS WE SEE THIS ALL OVER THE WORLD NOW THEY BRING THE FIGHT ONCE AGAIN TO OUR LIVES TRYING TO THAKE OUR CHILDREN!!
THE Q? IS WILL WE STAND TOGETHER AND FIGHT THESE MONSTERS WHO WIL TAKE ALL THAT YOU LOVE OR FALL BECAUSE YOU BICKER THIS IS WHAT THEIR BOOK[qu-ran]] TELLS THEM WE HAVE PROVEN THEM WRONG IN THE PAST WHAT WILL TODAY BE??
February 18, 2005
http://www.beecy.net/frank/
Republic of Congo 60 miners dead 350 ill W.H.O. on the way and think it may be the pelage??
Japan says to China better not use Force on Twain??
Cat loose in Simi Valley Calf.??
Syria-on Texan caught leaving the USA on his way to catch ubl[YELLOW COWARD WHO RUNS AWAY] seams he had 13,000$ cash, Pepper Spray, Rounds of Ammo, Bullets, Bullet Proof Vest, and 3 Geiger Counters??
Sri Launka pissed at Greece because the stuff they sent [clothes] were fur coats??
Mulsums killing people in Indonesia? Over 1000 people?
N.J. to sue Blockbuster? Watch out Babs??
New Farmone for cockroaches? Guess there will be some new Roach Motels??
Tort reform signed? Well sort of?
Inflation all because of Cigs., Beer, Wine, and Liquor? Makes you feel good about life!! Seams those who partake are paying bigger taxes and helping more than others!!
Dr. Killed in N.J. water plant may have been mulsums, and Terrorist related??
Marriage of homosexuals to become legal in Canada! What do you think the mulsums will have to say about that??
Indonesia another huge Earthquake and people killed??
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength, Wisdom, Sight, and Courage to stay the course to Victory[FREEDOM] to Destroy ALL islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Open the Worlds Eyes to their Threat give the World Courage to Stand Up and Fight this Evil Amen
PS
http://www.ehowa.com/show/media.html?image=iraqielection.wmv
This is what makes me think that if muslims could turn from islam they would... its plain to see that they DO want freedom, not repression and slavery that is required of adherents to the cult of islam.
Posted by: Just_Linda at February 18, 2005 04:31 PM
Gaiour: I am also considered an antisemite, because I am simultaneously anti Zionist, and a "Holocaust Tm" denier. Resenting and considering as dangerous to the Jews, and the gentile, the Holocaust industry ... (blab oink)
Holocaust (Trademark)? Niiiice. Did you learn that at from David Duke or Ralph Nader? Jews are the most oppressed group of people in the history of the world, and I admire them for their willingness to prevail and succeed. There is a reason they are so prevalent in science, academia, Hollywood, law, politics, engineering, and medicine: they WORK. The redneck mob of Amerikkka was SOOOOO busy ridiculing them and making up "Pollack" jokes, making them out to be (gasp!) CHEAP. What a crime! Meanwhile, the "hard workin' American farmer" was busy hiring children and migrants to work his fields; what could be cheaper than that? Oh yeah: SLAVERY was cheaper... and the poor farmers said "If you take away the slaves, agriculture is DOOOOMED! And the conservatives believed them. But AMERCIA won that war, and took away the slaves. Then the farmers cried "We NEEEED child labor. Without it, American agriculture is DOOOOMED" but the liberals outlawed that too. Then along came the communist, faggot, atheist unions, and the farmers cried "If you unionize, American agriculture is DOOOOOMED" but the liberals fought hard enough and stood up to the goons with brickbats and unionized (partially). Then Monsanto bought the farms and used nothing but machinized farming, then they sold the lands to Walmart and urban sprawl developers and moved the farms to Mexico and the orchards to Brazil, so now they can kill the union organizers, spray poison on their slaves, poison the water with bug spray, hire children, and that's that. Looks like American agriculture is finally going to be MOOOOOVED. But I digress.
Got a little time on my hands tonight as mother just made us a big dinner of potato soup and catheads (biscuits the size of cat's head, for you yankees/Earl Pitts fans) and though sick and tired, I need to let the food digest a little more before heading off to nightmare land.
Gaiour, if you espouse liberal ideals, why don't you support the ONLY liberal democracy in the Middle East; namely, Israel? What is the "Holocaust Industry"? Where people make a living by selling books and artwork about the Holocaust? Where people lecture and speak about the Holocaust? You've read the bible 14 times? Big deal. Go read "Dark the Night" or "Maus" and then get back to me.
I am neither conservative nor Christian nor Jewish nor Israeli, but I am a Zionist and let me tell you why. Israel is possessed by Jews because it was given to them by the King of England. HE possessed it because the Ottoman Turks gave it to him at the Treaty of Versailles. THEY signed the treaty because they declared war on England and lost. It’s that easy.
If you think Strahsburg is part of France and not part of Germany, then you should agree that Israel belongs to the Jews. If you think that Sakhalin belongs to Russia and not Japan then you should agree that Israel belongs to the Jews. If you think that Greece belongs to Greece and not Turkey then you should agree that Israel belongs to the Jews. Don’t let yourself be hoodwinked by that sweet young thing on campus with the “free palestine” tee-shirt. The Arab citizens of Israel (i.e. the ones that didn’t desert it when it was under attack) have more civil rights, more liberty, and more opportunity than ANY GROUP OF ARABS ANYWHERE, even those in Arab-dominated nations. That’s how liberal, secular democracy works: everyone may peacefully protest the government, everyone may hold office, and everyone has equal recourse to the law. Remember, that’s the way America used to be?
The Holocaust is the worst thing in modern history because it was the perpetration of genocide by a group of modern, well-educated, progressive people UPON a group of modern, well-educated, progressive people because and solely because of what they were. It was a well-documented, carefully charted, and “engineered” massacre beyond modern scale.
American Indians were slaughtered by the conservative invaders because they wanted the land (here and the Caribbean) or the gold (Mezo- and South America.) Aboriginal Australians and Tasmanians were slaughtered because the conservative invaders wanted the land. Jews were slaughtered because they were Jews.
**********************************************
If Ward Churchill loses his job teaching at the University of Colorado, he could end up giving Howard Dean a real run for his money to head the Democratic National Committee.
Hahahahahaha oink oink oink. Yeah, that Dean. He sure is crazy, isn’t he? I mean, liberals aren’t supposed to want to fight! We’re supposed to lay down and be polite, just like Alan Colmes.
Churchill already has a phony lineage and phony war record – just like John Kerry! (Someone should also check out Churchill's claim that he spent Christmas 1968 at Wounded Knee.)
Bwahahahhahalolol oink oink oink… “Wounded Knee” ….goddam, that’s funny! You probably remember all the “Starving Ethiopian” jokes of the eighties too, don’t you, you compassion conservative? Hey, do you know any jokes about people dying of AIDS? That would be great if you told them. By the way, where was Lord Dub in 1968? Running through the meatgrinding jungle with the Marines? Patrolling the Mekong with men like Kerry? Oh, that’s right. His daddy got him a slot in the TANG that was guaranteed non-deployable, even though there were hundreds of more deserving men on the waiting list ahead of him.
Wait a minute... you're not supposed to be talking about Kerry! It's time to focus on Hilary a.k.a. Hitlery! Didn't you get your RNC fax?
In 1983, Churchill met with Libyan dictator Moammar Gadhafi and later felt it necessary to announce that his group, the American Indian Movement, "has not requested arms from the Libyan government."
Would you prefer that he lied?
In 1997, he was one of the "witnesses" who spoke at a "Free Mumia" event in Philadelphia on behalf of convicted cop-killer Mumia Abu-Jamal.
Since he was convicted, he must be guilty, right? So a new trial wouldn’t hurt anything, right? (BTW he wasn’t a Muslim until he went to prison.)
Come to think of it, Churchill could give Hillary a run for her money. All that's left for Churchill to do now is meet with Al Sharpton and kiss Suha Arafat.
Or maybe Ward would like to switch parties and meet with Bob Jones and kiss the asses of the entire Saudi Royal family. Or maybe he could take the stage and blow Islam like Dub did at his inauguration speech (LOL… you monkeys have made yourselves forget that already, haven’t you? LOL)
Churchill's claim that he is an Indian isn't an incidental boast, like John Kerry pretending to be Irish.
You’re right (as usual, you’re a conservative), Kerry definitely is an Italian name. There is no Kerry County in Ireland, Kerry County is in… um… Poland. Yep, that’s it. Kerry is Polish. Haha… no wonder he’s so dumb, huh? (Sarcasm off) Oh, you monkeys! You’re so funny! I guess Rush taught you well.
I can’t believe you would say that Kerry isn’t Irish, when his family name is taken from a place in Ireland. What a fool you are. You probably think that Bush is a Texan too.
It is central to his career, his writing, his political activism. Churchill has been the co-director of the American Indian Movement of Colorado, the vice chairperson of the American Indian "Anti-Defamation" Council, and an associate professor and coordinator of American Indian Studies at the University of Colorado.
And that’s bad because?
By Churchill's own account, a crucial factor in his political development was "being an American Indian referred to as 'chief' in a combat unit" in Vietnam, which made him sad. This is known to con men everywhere as a "two-fer." In addition to an absence of evidence about his Indian heritage, there is an absence of evidence that he was in combat in Vietnam. After the POW Network revealed that Churchill had never seen combat, he countered with this powerful argument: "They can say whatever the hell they want. That's confidential information, and I've never ordered its release from the Department of Defense. End of story." Maybe we should ask John Kerry to help Churchill fill out a form 180.
I’m not here to defend Ward Churchill. If he’s lied about serving his country, someone needs to call him on it. Let’s see some proof, a (non-monkey) link, etc.
In one of his books, "Struggle for the Land," Churchill advances the argument that one-third of America is the legal property of Indians. And if you believe Churchill is a real Indian, he also happens to be part owner of the Brooklyn Bridge.
Well, some people advance the argument that three-thirds of America is the legal property of the Indians. I can see why.
In his most famous oeuvre, the famed 9-11 essay calling the 9-11 World Trade Center victims "little Eichmanns," he said "Arab terrorists" – his quotes – had simply "responded to the massive and sustained American terror bombing of Iraq" by giving Americans "a tiny dose of their own medicine."
AND some right-wingers blamed America too, but you can’t be bothered with any facts that contradict your theory. Your theory is that ALL liberals hate America and that ALL conservatives love America. You hype on the facts that “fit” your theory and ignore the ones that don’t. And that is the nature of conservatism. That’s why conservatism hates science and scientists. You know, those “pointy-headed academic elitists”, the guys that wore classes and pocket protectors when they were kids. The ones that invented the missile, the Nuclear bomb, the combustion engine, the cure for polio, joint replacement surgery, the cell phone, Gatorade, all our ships, submarines, tanks, and armaments, and other crummy liberal eggheaded ideas.
Having blurted out "Iraq" in connection with 9-11 in a moment of pique, Churchill had to backpedal when the anti-war movement needed to argue that Iraq had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Arab terrorism. He later attached an "Addendum" to the essay saying that the 9-11 attack was not only payback for Iraq, but also for various other of this country's depredations especially against "real Indians" (of which he is not one).
Perhaps Prof. Churchill’s momentary lapse of reason was inspired by the Bush administration’s attempts from the day of 9-11 to connect 911 with Iraq. I remember very well listening to Rush Limbaugh on 09-12-01, just to see how he’d spin it, and he said it was Saddam then. And he went on to say that the attack on America was nothing new, that liberals had been doing the same thing for decades, like making us use low-flow commodes. No, I’m not kidding, would that I were… that’s what the fat drug addict said.
In light of the fact that Churchill's entire persona, political activism, curriculum vitae, writings and university positions are based on his claim that he's an Indian, it's rather churlish of him to complain when people ask if he really is one. But whenever he is questioned about his heritage, Churchill rails that inquiries into his ancestry are "absolutely indefensible."
First of all, most monkeys have no idea what a curriculum vitae is.
He rails that inquiries are indefensible? Maybe he’s being advised by Karl Rove. That’s exactly what Dub & Friends say when anyone questions Dub or one of his tagalongs.
For example,
Reporter: “Does the Bush administration think that its good policy to attack Senator Kerry, a combat veteran, considering that Bush avoided Vietnam by going to the T.A.N.G?”
Spokesman: “The President is proud of our troops in Iraq that are serving in the National Guard. It’s sad that the democrats are belittling the National Guard at a time when Guardsmen are being killed in combat.”
Churchill has gone from claiming he is one-eighth Indian "on a good day" to claiming he is "three-sixteenths Cherokee," to claiming he is one-sixty-fourth Cherokee through a Revolutionary War era ancestor named Joshua Tyner. (At least he's not posing as a phony Indian math professor.)
Well, most monkeys can’t understand fractions, so let me try to help you here. I have an Irish last name, so I call myself “half Irish.” Suppose I found out that my mother actually had an Irish parent. I would then be one-half Irish, PLUS another one-quarter Irish (since my mother would be one-half Irish) making me three-quarters Irish (three-quarters is the sum of one-half and one-quarter.) Now say I discovered that one of my mother’s parents was black. That would make me one-quarter black (assuming all other progenitors weren’t black at all.) For me to count as one-eight black, I would need one black great-grandparent. For me to count as one-sixteenth black, I would need one black great-great-grandparent.
There really is an easy way to dispel any inaccuracy in these “claims” (or “defenses” as the case may be.) There is a genetic testing company somewhere--I’m sure that they could be found with a search engine pretty fast--that will take a sample of your blood and give you a racial analysis.
The same can be done using “family knowledge;” e.g. my wife is part black, part white, and part Mexican. “White” means Caucasian, “black” means Negroid (and in America, and least a little bit Caucasian; DNA studies show that “black” people in America are on average 18% Caucasian) and “Mexican” means Native American (i.e. Mongolian) and Caucasian. Since there is no record of interracial shenanigans with the Caucasians of Ireland and anyone else, and since my kinsmen were relative latecomers to America and didn’t mix that much with the native Indians and black people, and given that my wife’s “black” mother is likely 18% white and her father was definitely only half-black and probably one-quarter white and one-quarter Indian, I can show on paper that our kids are 66% white. But I digress.
A recent investigation by the Denver Post revealed that Tyner's father was indeed married to a Cherokee. But that was only after Joshua's mother – and Churchill's relative – was scalped by Indians.
Wait a minute… that SOUNDS like you’ve got it all sewn up, but does that mean that Joshua’s mother WASN’T an Indian? Indians didn’t just scalp Caucasians; they also scalped each other. Well, for your side perception is stronger than truth, and you’ve definitely made your case…too bad it isn’t based on facts.
If someone REALLY wants to get the “facts” that Prof. Churchill ISN’T AN INDIAN, here’s what you do:
Offer a $20,000 scholarship to anyone at UC (or wherever he teaches) that can convince Prof. Churchill to send a blood sample to that company I mentioned above. Hell, make it a full, four-year, boarding and tuition scholarship for a Native American charity. Call every Native American charity you can think of and tell them that you’ll send them a check to cover a BS degree at UC to the first charity that convinces Prof. Churchill to send in that sample. Wouldn’t he like to pay for the education of a Native American charity case, especially since it would only cost him a little vial of blood? Paste flyers all over campus, take out ads in the campus paper. Tell Bill O’Reilly to whine about it every day.
Then the issue would be put to rest. Either he is part Indian, or he isn’t, but this would settle the matter, FOR GOOD. Rush claims to have 60 MILLION listeners. If every one of them sent in a penny to the “Expose Ward Churchill” campaign, that would fund a 600,000 dollar scholarship. That would send a lot of poor kids to college. Make him put up or shut up, or YOU shut up.
It really is very easy to think these things through when you think clearly. You GOPers should try it some time.
By now, all that's left of Churchill's claim to Indian ancestry is his assertion: "It is just something that was common knowledge in my family." (That, and his souvenir foam-rubber "tommyhawk" he bought at Turner Field in Atlanta.)
??? Wait, don’t tell me. You made that up yourself, right? At least it wasn’t as crass as the Wounded Knee “joke.”
Hey, didja hear the latest? They’re gonna put Bonzo on the dime! Maybe they can put General Custer on that screwy dollar coin. HAWHAWHAW! (… and General Cornwallis on the quarter, Robert E. Lee on the fifty, and John Wilkes Booth on the penny. Make America proud again!)
Churchill is not in the tribal registries kept since the 1800s by the federal government.No tribe will enroll him – a verification process Churchill dismisses as "poodle papers" for Indians. In 1990, Churchill was forced to stop selling his art as "Indian art" under federal legislation sponsored by then-representative – and actual Indian! – Ben Nighthorse Campbell,
I think he changed his name to Been Whiteman’s Horse Campbell.
… that required Indian artists to establish that they are accepted members of a federally recognized tribe. Churchill responded by denouncing the Indian artist who had exposed him.
Again, this issue could very easily be laid to rest with a simple blood test and ONE PENNY sent in to a campaign to check the racial ancestry of Prof. Churchill. If every Dub-voting monkey in America sent one penny each, they could put up a $500,000 scholarship.
(Hey, does anybody need 200 velvet paintings of Elvis playing poker with Crazy Horse?)
What, do you think that any dumbass thing you say that has to do with Indians is a funny joke on Ward Churchill? You’ve made a joke about Wounded Knee, the Atlanta Braves tomahawk choppers, and now Crazy Horse? What’s next, will you tell him that when he’s kicked out of the university, he will yell “Geronimooooooo!”?
In the early '90s, he hoodwinked an impecunious Cherokee tribe into … (blablablablablah now time for another childish joke:) … If The Nation won't buy your anti-U.S. government conspiracy theories, Kemosabe, it's probably time to pack up the old teepee and hit the trail of tears. (blablablablablablah) … As long as we're all agreed that there are some people who don't deserve jobs at universities, why isn't Churchill one of them?
Because right-wing monkeys don’t decide who is hired to teach at universities. University administrators are hired for that. I think it works something like this: new hires get a six-year “trial period” after which there is a vote amongst his peers as to whether he receives tenure.
**************************************************
But wouldn't you classify yourself as an "anti-jihadi"?
Yes.
I earned my college dip 12 years ago at the age of 40. My impressions of the influence university profs have on students, however, are drawn from current conversations, most often with the university students who serve me coffee every weekday morning in the local Starbucks and what they understand about the political environment, for example the highly misleading stats about Palestinian deaths vs Israeli deaths (as taught in class), or a young Jewish student who was working over the ticketholders' line at the Toronto Jewish Film Festival trying to push the one-state solution option because that's what her teachers at York U taught her was the surest way to peacefully accommodate both [Jewish] Israelis and Palestinians.
So some young idealistic fools get tricked by the Dawa booth and the apologists like Ani D’Franco et alia… big deal. The same crapeating phony hippies were whining about Clinton for "starving 500,000 Iraqi children to death" five years ago.
Did you set them straight, did you give the ALL the facts about the Israeli-“palestinian” problem, or did you just scream at them that they were commie hippy faggot liberal Satanists? Did you use reason to try to carefully pry open their eyes, or did you incinerate them with poisonous invective? If you dealt with them in a calm, rational manner, and carefully went through every one of their arguments, point-by-point, perhaps you may have done some good.
I don't know where you attended college,
USF, former employer of Sami Al Aryan and Ramadan Shallah, described by Bill O’Reilly (who knows a lot about everything) as “a hotbed of radical Islamic sentiment.”
…but the academic environment here in Toronto is very highly charged, with a lot of pro-Palestinian propaganda and activity actively promoted by faculty in all sorts of disciplines. Concordia, in Montreal is even worse.
Well, it doesn’t help that you are hanging out in a Starbucks, who has never gotten one dollar from me. If they are “too good” to do business in the nation of Israel but can set up shop everywhere else, then they are too good to get my money. (They had some chains in Israel but shut them down, allegedly “in solidarity” with the “palestinians” so no wonder college losers flock to work there in droves. When you get hired at Starbucks you get 16 hours of training. 14 of that is spent learing to say "That'll be four-twenty-five for your cup of coffe" with a straight face.)
Do you still reside in Toronto or near Concordia? If so, register for a class. You graduate at 40, 12 years ago. It follows that you are 52. Probably your kids, if any, are grown and you may enough free time to take one class. Just take a b.s. night class in basketweaving or whatever. Once you are a student you can make you voice heard on campus. One voice can make a big difference. Especially a mature voice. I like to think that I had something to do with the Dawa booth being shut down the year after they set up on Holocaust Memorial Day with a bunch of lies about Israel and the Jooooz. I argued with the Mobots for about an hour and a half that day while the Hillel sellouts stood quietly by and said nothing. But later I wrote to President Genschaft and told her about the signs of the Star of David equalling a swastika, etc.
And talk of "reddening monkey asses" really distinguishes you intellectually, as did your description of your planned activities on Election Day (knocking heads, or something like that, wasn't it?)
Oh, so if I insult someone, that means that everything else I’ve said is meaningless? Nice dodge. Well, when truth isn’t on your side, that’s the kind of things you have to do.
Don’t call Asscroft, I didn’t knock any heads on election day. I just hung out for a while at a poll in case some Nazis showed up to disrupt things. I was ready to bust heads, but wasn’t forced to.
Hear, hear. Not that it has much actually to do with resisting Jihad - the one thing Churchill has not tried is becoming a Muslim; I wonder why? - but Churchill is a disgrace. He is the sort of adventurer that gives university teachers a bad name. If it is true that the Indian Studies program was set up for him, then that means that a whole university has allowed itself to be led by the nose, to be used for the careerist ambitions, of an unqualified snake-oil salesman.
If it is true that he LIED about his ancestry to gain a teaching position and eventually achieve tenure, then it seems to me that his tenure could be revoked. Maybe. I’ve already given the solution to that. Cajole him into the test, and let’s see how it shakes out.
Note: Just because he fails the test doesn’t mean that he didn’t have good reason to think that he was Indian. I have good reason to think that I’m Irish, but it is all based on word-of-mouth family history handed down from a long time ago. I could find out that I’m adopted and about as Irish as Dub is a cowboy (i.e. not at all.)
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Ward Churchill will, single-handedly, bring about the end of tenure. Even Presidents and Supreme Court judges can be relieved of duty. Who the Hell is Ward Churchill? -- a racing stripe in Boulder's drawers. Nobody. He will be canned; tenure will end.
No, he WAS nobody… until a monkey figured out that they could make all liberals look bad by beating one up in the public arena. Since Lord Dub’s nation-building folly in Iraq is turning into a wretched disaster, and since he’s determined to stock our judiciary with religiously-insane con-rep ideologues, and since the GOPers are poised to hand your social security to an investment broker on Wall Street, we need to start beefing up the “Everything Wrong is Because of the Liberals” chant. Especially if the economy tanks, and if the Jihadis attack us again, we must be ready to deflect all blame from Lord Dub and his ragtag coterie of international “contractors”, Saudi Royal Family lackeys, and draft-dodging, “high morals”, social reformers.
“Tenure will end”?….I’ll say it again. I wish we could bet money on these crazy predictions.
Of course the monkeys hate tenure. Tenure was invented because serious academic institutions didn’t want outside influences (like the church; big, vested industries; and political headhunters) to be able to threaten educators that dared to say something controversial, like “The earth is more than six-thousand years old” or “the fossil record shows that humans evolved from more-primitive apes” or “there is no genetic trait that makes one race superior or inferior to any other.” Now can you guess WHO was making such a ruckus about claims like these? You got it: Christian Conservatives! Wow… it’s amazing how things come full circle isn’t it?
Man, this is all so easy to “fix” (I mean, really fix; not fixed like Dub “fixed” Iraq and Reagan “fixed” Lebanon): STOP SENDING THE PRECIOUS LITTER OF YOUR LOINS TO PUBLIC UNIVERSITIES. Send them all to colleges that put “God’s Law” first. Eventually those colleges will grow and the “ungodly” colleges will fade away. We’ll have to do away with language study since the bible clearly states in the myth of the tower of Babel that God didn’t want us to learn other languages. Then we’ll have to do away with geology since the bible says the earth is only 6000 years old. And we’ll have to do away with math, since the bible says that the value of PI is 3. And why use medicine, since praying for good health will surely produce better, faster, and longer-lasting results? Let’s do away with medicine. The next time your ‘roids flare up, go see your Imam.
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The basics of Christianity, peace, love, forgiveness are antithetical to Islam, and sadly to Judaism as well. Do unto others as you would have done unto you is in Deuteronomy, An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, which is also distinctly Arab and Muslim.
Goddam, why do some insecure people think they should make a commercial for their cult at every opportunity? Hey, waterdragon. I thought that Christians believed “ALL of the bible” to be “God’s Word.” Didn’t Judaism come from God?
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I see kj joined us today. I finally realized, all his point-by-point argument back, is simply reaction to us hitting too close to the Truth. Naturally that must be defended against.
Oooh. Nice rebuttal. That’s using logic, reason, and sound analysis to prove your point. I guess when I make an argument back, and go point-by-point, I am “simply reacting” to your “hitting too close to the Truth.” That’s a very good rebuttal as to why Lynne Stewart is more influential than James Baker. At least in Bizarro Gary world, it is.
Ah, please forgive me for my absurd point-by-point rebuttals. They’re all I have, until I can scrape up enough food stamps to order Rush Limbaugh’s extension course in Advanced Republican Studies.
Gary, please stop beating me over the head with the Truth, with a capital “T” no less! You know I have no defense against your SUPERIOR debate skills.
Oh god, that’s enough. Okay, everymonkey pile on. I’ve answered your hoots and hollers with plain, simple, commonsense language. Now fire back with some more crap about me being a commiehippiefaggotcowardracemixingjewboyleftistloserliberalloner.
“Hey, Gary… this analysis doesn’t make sense. That phone didn’t ring. You’re not talking to anyone. Hello? Yes, I know. I'll fix it myself, right away. I'm sorry, it’s just that … I work with a bunch of monkeys.”*
KJ
LLLL
PS... If you meet a Muslim who claims to believe in the bible, ask him if believes Psalm 86.4!
*-If you “don’t get it” get over to a search engine post haste and find an mpeg for the Superbowl commercials with the guy who works with a bunch of monkeys. No matter what your political persuasion and religion or lack therof, and no matter how pathetic your IQ, you will love this.
After we leave Iraq, the bombings will only continue.
Shi’a Islam will bomb Sunni Islam into submission.
Kj
The whoopie cushon commercial was the best..... See even this Nazi thinks its funny....
I think Giaour claimed to have read the Bible a few weeks ago when he was the age of 14.
Not read it 14 times.... I just hope that self-proclaimed Bible scholar doesn’t eat me....
But I don’t think he can, he doesn’t eat solid food yet!
Dear Kj
"the fossil record shows that humans evolved from more-primitive apes"
That is not correct. Check your facts, the fossil record does not support Darwin’s
theory of evolution, but flies in the face of it!
Your argument that you (kj) are a decedent of an ape is to difficult for me to rebut.
So kj, I concur.
Thanks Bar; glad we have yet another agreement. I have read many alternative theories of evolution, probably more than the average joe. Of particular interest is the idea that we were aquatic mammals for a million years or so. Think about it: we can make tears. Why do we need to make tears? With a minimal amount of practice (if any is neede at all) we can hold our breathe for over a minute. The direction of growth for our body hair suggests a lot of swimming was going on. And there are no fossils available for a long period of time. If you blow in a baby's face she will take a deep breath. Very young babies can easily be taught to float.
Well that is just one alternative theory. A theory is a set of premises that explain data. New data is being added all the time. Sometimes theories have to be altered; sometimes they have to be replaced.
Evolution is a theory. "Creative Design" is a fantasy, and "Six Days in 4,000 B.C." is a fairy tale.
Like I said before, if you want to believe in something that isn't based on science and logic, please be my guest. Just don't teach it to my kids in the schools my taxes fund. Start your own school, and send you kids to learn that the earth is only 6000 years old and the fossils were put there by the liberals--I mean, by SATAN--to trick you away from God.
No matter what science says, when conservatives make up their minds, they are through with logic and reason. Like the "homosexuality is a choice" crapfest. The bible thumpers go on and on about how they "know" that the sissies just hate god and decide to enjoy a satanic life. But the homosexuals say that they felt gay their entire lives, and didn't "choose" it. One could even say, why did the Cheneys raise their daughter in such a way that she "became" gay? And Sonny Bono? And Newt's parents? And Phyllis Schafly? And Alan Keyes? And Condi's parents? And Ann Coulter's parents?
Kj
Something else I am sure we agree on is that Islam does not allow this free exchange of opinions. We would be killed for such tergiversation.
Hehe...I love it when liberals bring up science and evolution to try to make themselves look smart. The only bad thing is they give science a bad name! First of all a theory in science can be defined as an idea that has been highly scritinized through a large number of experiements and is generally accepted and also can be used to make predictions A thoery is well beyond what Kj is trying to explain it as. He's talking about a hypothesis really. Second of all I'm getting really tired of people (who say that they beleive in evolution) saying that we evolved from apes. According to the theory humans and apes evolved from a common ancestor...this common ancestor was NOT an ape. Second there are really no fossils at all when you think about how long life has been on the planet and how many species have to be in between the ones we have if the theory of evolution is correct (no one was there so we will never know for sure...we have ideas that are backed up by what evidence we were able to find so far...and a lot of scientific conjecture). I just think its funny when people use science as a kind of absolute truth...the truth is that its far from it...any real scientist would know that.
Well said General Patton
Example of great science at work, 98% of all DNA is called junk DNA, just because they haven’t a clue what its function is. A paleontologist who “believes in the theory of evolution” will contend that it is very rare for conditions to exist that allow fossils to form, so it is not surprising that evidence does not exist to prove the theory. And from the medical field, Henrietta Lack died in 1951 of cervical cancer at John Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore. Her cancer cells were special, for they were the first cells to be grown in perpetuity in tissue cultures. Before HELA (Henrietta Lack) cells, only one or two divisions were possible. The HELA cells were sent world wide. In 1972 the Russians sent us six cell lines they thought contained cells with cancer causing viruses. As it turned out, these cell lines were all contaminated with HELA cells that contained monkey viruses. Dr. Walter Nelson Reese had the responsibility of keeping the cell lines in the U.S. cataloged. After the incident with the Russians, he decided to examine all cell lines. He discovered, much to his amazement, that over a third of them were HELA contaminated, probably when culture lids were opened and aerosolized particles would float around the lab and sometimes drop into another cell line. The aggressive HELA cells, often carrying viruses from other species, would soon take over a culture. Amazingly bad science, here is a another crazy fact, a scientific failure to prove the existence of a unique, exogenously acquired retro-virus, HIV. A failure to verify the HIV antibody tests proof of HIV infection. No scientific evidence that HIV causes AIDS. Why the news media doesn’t care I cant figure out. Maybe the same reason they don’t care about the human rights abuses that Islam continues to follow.
Well...scientifically speaking the Theory of Evolution is the best we can come up with...and its based on genetics, embryology, morphology, and palenotology, etc. (although there are few fossils that we have been able to find compared to the large amount of species and life that has lived on the earth and died). There have to be really good specific conditions for a very old fossil to form and be preserved. Most animal bodies will be completely destroyed after death...although teeth can last a while. I guess my point was that science is our best guess at the time and it is not absolute truth and shouldn't be thought of as that. The coolest part of science is that we don't know everything and new questions and ideas always arise. I can say that I don't believe in creationism...I don't think the Bible is meant to be a scientific text book...I don't see anywhere in the Bible where it says God created everything at a specific date. It doesn't say how exactly God created everything either. Most of the time tells the ocean or something to bring forth life and it happens on its own. Second...I don't see anything in science anywhere that is even close to a shred of evidence that supports the idea that God doesn't exist...I've never heard of an experiment to try this. It’s a waste of time for science to get involved in anything religious because how do you test it? It would be far better and more exciting to have scientists spend their time on figuring out how to detect or devise experiments to show that strings from string theory exist...the math says they do but how do you show that they exist if they are too small to detect with any instrument or method we know of? Just look at what happened when they tried to come up with a theory of everything...they created 7 new theories that explain the universe and what we see happening...so are they all right? Do they all point to another idea that we haven’t discovered yet? Are we smart enough to even discover that idea?...or understand our universe (and others) completely? Anyway...I think science is really neat and I just don't like it when some narcissistic, egotistical, liberal who has an over inflated view of himself uses it to try to make other people look stupid to reinforce his view of himself. That’s not what it’s for its another way to help us understand whats going on around us and it has some interesting and neat ideas.
In order for me to believe in the Theory of evolution, I would first have to disregard the second law of thermal dynamics, "in any closed system, the amount of disorder always increases with time".
The big bang, First there was “nothing” and then it exploded? That just confuses me, even though that is not a difficult task. The mathematical probabilities of evolution taking place and becoming what we are and see today are extremely daunting.
Well...in the big bang there was a single point of infinite density and where space and time are infinately warped called a singularity. The problem with before the big band is that we still do not have the theory of everything that combines the very large (infinite density, theories of relativity) with the very small (a single point, quantum theory). Thats where the string theorists are trying to do their work. It also applies to black holes. I think if I remember correctly that string theory would say that a singularity is actually a very small string of energy...about a billion billion times smaller than the nuclus of an atom. There are a whole bunch of ideas about how the big bang happened in string theory...the ones I remember have to do with branes...that the universe exists on the surface of a membrane...and there are other branes/universes just milimeters away from us but since we are on a different brane we can't detect it. We are acutally strings attached to this membrane. The problem of the weakness of gravity is thought to be because gravity is a string that excapes from the brane and can affect other branes...this kind of solves the problem of dark matter.
The theory of evolution says that there was a lot more energy used to create life than the order created...so thermal dynamics isn't broken in that regard. Use of energy is actually an increase in disorder of the universe. The organic chemistry and the interaction of atoms and molecules has to be just right for life to form...along with all of the constants of the universe...thats what I think is amazing about this stuff.
I like this website about string theory...also the Elegant Universe is a good book and DVD to look at.
http://superstringtheory.com/
Is the second law of thermal dynamics broken in regards to, the natural order of things moving from order to chaos, in evolution does it not for a time move in reverse, from chaos to order?
The basics of Christianity, peace, love, forgiveness are antithetical to Islam, and sadly to Judaism as well. Do unto others as you would have done unto you is in Deuteronomy, An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, which is also distinctly Arab and Muslim.
Goddam, why do some insecure people think they should make a commercial for their cult at every opportunity? Hey, waterdragon. I thought that Christians believed “ALL of the bible” to be “God’s Word.” Didn’t Judaism come from God?
Posted by: kj at February 19, 2005 02:49 AM
KJ:
I didn't write that. Giaour did. I took him to task for it, pointing out that what he cites from Deuteronomy doesn't support his point that Judaism is a systemically hostile and beligerent religion like Islam (the "quote" suggests the polar opposite -- that you treat others as you wish to be treated yourself), and further, that Deut is the Fifth Book of Moses.
He then replied by saying the Golden Rule is common to many faiths, not just Judaism and posting a number of Old Testement quotes to support his claim that Judaism is "anti-peace" etc.
Evolution is a theory. "Creative Design" is a fantasy, and "Six Days in 4,000 B.C." is a fairy tale. ~ Posted by: kj
The theory of evolution,
first there was “nothing” and then it exploded, Then random chance took over and billions of years later here we are.
This theory violates the elementary laws of science from beginning to end.
“Matter cannot be created or destroyed” So where was all this matter?
“The laws of entropy” Any ford pinto parked for 20 or even 1,000,000 years will never become a corvette, it will only become a rusty ford pinto. So how did evolution reverse this process?
Now we are left with random chance. The random chance that all the right chemicals in just the right amount came together at just the precise time. And this couldn’t happen just once, but a billion times in a row chance has got to get it right without a failure or the whole process fails. It is mathematically impossible for random chance to evolve into what we are today. The human body is far to complex for random chance.
To buy this “fairy tale” of evolution requires one to ignore certain laws of science and a colossal amount of blind faith.
Evolution is a theory. "Creative Design" is a fantasy, and "Six Days in 4,000 B.C." is a fairy tale. ~ Posted by: kj
The theory of evolution
first there was “nothing” and then it exploded, Then random chance took over and billions of years later here we are. This theory violates the elementary laws of science from beginning to end. “Matter cannot be created or destroyed” So where was all this matter? “The laws of entropy” Any ford pinto parked for 20 or even 1,000,000 years will never become a corvette, it will only become a rusty ford pinto. So how did evolution reverse this process?
Now we are left with random chance. The random chance that all the right chemicals in just the right amount came together at just the precise time. And this couldn’t happen just once, but a billion times in a row chance has got to get it right without a failure or the whole process fails.
It is mathematically impossible for random chance to evolve into what we are today. The human body is far to complex for random chance. The earth is far to complex for random chance.
To buy this “fairy tale” of evolution requires one to ignore certain laws of science and a colossal amount of blind faith.