From the Christian Science Monitor, with thanks to Eschwapp:
SANAA, YEMEN – When Judge Hamoud al-Hitar announced that he and four other Islamic scholars would challenge Yemen's Al Qaeda prisoners to a theological contest, Western antiterrorism experts warned that this high-stakes gamble would end in disaster. Nervous as he faced five captured, yet defiant, Al Qaeda members in a Sanaa prison, Judge Hitar was inclined to agree. But banishing his doubts, the youthful cleric threw down the gauntlet, in the hope of bringing peace to his troubled homeland."If you can convince us that your ideas are justified by the Koran, then we will join you in your struggle," Hitar told the militants. "But if we succeed in convincing you of our ideas, then you must agree to renounce violence."
The prisoners eagerly agreed.
Now, two years later, not only have those prisoners been released, but a relative peace reigns in Yemen. And the same Western experts who doubted this experiment are courting Hitar, eager to hear how his "theological dialogues" with captured Islamic militants have helped pacify this wild and mountainous country, previously seen by the US as a failed state, like Iraq and Afghanistan.
I am eager to see this too. After all, no one else seems to be able to do this. British moderate Muslims, to name just one, have been powerless against claims that people like Omar Bakri represent "pure Islam." Other Islamic moderates have disdained the need for it. But if it's true that Hitar can convince Muslims to renounce violence using the Qur'an -- and I have serious doubts, based on what I know of the Qur'an and other Islamic sources -- then he has found what the whole world wants and needs.
Ben F put up the link to that earlier... I like this, but:
He is working with people twisted by their teachers. He is in a position where they cannot be further swayed by those who'se control they fell under earlier... I would like to see and hear about him challenging those teachers- preferably in a safe location for him.
Or he could join the team here...
I was delighted to read of Mr. Hitar's work. It makes sense when we consider that Islam (like many religions) programs certain belief systems into the minds of it's adherants at a very early age and those beliefs are assimilated as reality.
The power hungry with an axe to grind find it easy then to exploit this early training and simply have to teach young people to act on a radical interpretation of the Koran. And of course there is plenty of room to 'interpret' the Koran in a malevolent way! What if Christians were taught at an early age that everything in the old testament was expected of us today!
Mr. Hitar is simply DEPROGRAMMING brainwashed people and once they can no longer support their beliefs, they must let them go and change their viewpoint.
We ACT on our beliefs, all of us and sometimes what we believe is not correct after all or is not rational, but we are not able to see that for ourselves unless we seek the truth or someone forces us to see it - beyond all doubt. Then we can change.
People need to be given the chance, if at all possible, to become rational because their mistaken beliefs are not their fault, having been forced on them at an early age, but if they are incapable or refuse to give them up because of their thirst for power and revenge - then the community is obligated to either restrain or destroy them.
It would be bliss for this guy to have found the solution to the intolerance and mass cruelty commited in the name of islam today. Unfortunately a great claim requires great evidence and we need to see that evidence first.
Mr Hitar could be perfecting the fine art of
deception. The goal is take over the world they
must present examples to give us hope to weaken
our resolve to prevent us from stopping
the spread of this software virus of the
brain.
Why are we so quick to belive they are really
deprogramed. This fails the reality test.
posted by Patricia: "What if Christians were taught at an early age that everything in the old testament was expected of us today! "
We as Christians do not live the Law of Moses because Christ brought a higher law, and said as much.
Doctrinal abrogation in the koran eliminates those peaceful elements found in Islam, urging those of that "faith" to greater depravities against their fellow men and telling them quite explicitly, that whatever peaceful message existed before, is now null and void.
mohammad Cursing Christian
Though the New testament is more clearly defined as the "religion of peace". It to has been used in the past and even today as a tool to gain power and control over people; witness a group called " the Children of God" in the seventies , they prayed on young and searching souls who where vulnerable and once they got you in , you where told to read the bible from sun up to sun down and if you did not do that, or you decided to leave than you where told you would go to hell. This was away to gain power over your thinking. the difference was there was no militancy, no violence, no physical threat to your being if you decided to leave as there is in Islamic cult.
I became familiar with " the children of God" in the early 70s` and saw how they operated first hand, my brother who had a brother-in-law that got drawn into this cult, would later assist as a de-programmer of this cult. They would draw you in and get you to forsake your whole family parents. sisters,brothers, ETC. and then they would try to get you to convince your family to give money to the cult so that you may be saved from all your sins. Many churches supported this group until an investigation showed how they really operated. There was of course no militancy in these cults outside of the possibility of the Waco and David Koresh cult who projected what he called the right to bear arms to protect his flock from what he perceived as a threat from so-called anti-Christains which again was just another ploy to convince his brainwashed flock that they where the rightful ones to go to the pearly gates outside of that group near San Diego that needed to die to get on that passing comet back in 1996 ( probably one of the the best examples of brianwashing of a persons intellectual reasoning we have ever seen in as well as the horrific ritual suicides by a so-called Christain group in South America..
yes, there is peace in Yemen cause they all went over to the terrorists' side!
When something sounds too good to be TRUE, it usually is! Yemen is a lawless den of warlords and thugs which has never made any peaceful or economic progress for centuries.
Jakester, I think you've got it.
Once they understand this they become fighters for freedom and democracy, and fighters for the true Islam," he says
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN??
GOOD THAT HE IS USING 5:32 HOPE THIS ONE PASSAGE CAN CONVERT PEOPLE BUT IN THE END THE GOAL AS NASSEEM POINTS OUT IS TOTAL CONTROL OF THE WORLD ??
the Yemeni government also hanker for a more iron-fisted approach, and Yemen remains on high alert for further attacks. Fighter planes regularly swoop low over the ancient mud-brick city of Sanaa to send a clear message to any would-be militants.
I THINK THIS IS WHY!! THEY HAVE PROBLEY BEEN TOLD IF YOU DO ANYTHING TO BRING THE RATH OF THE USA ON US WE WILL KILL ALL YOUR FAMILY AND BURIE THEM IN PIG SHEETS AND YOU TO!!
Part of the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom,Sight, and Corage to Stay the course to Victory to Destroy ALL Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Amen
PS
Think about it out of no where and the car is blown up???
That will put the Fear in to those who are not helping on the War Against Islamic Terrorist!!
No doubt there are many Muslims who by nature do NOT want to be involved in bloodshed of any kind. Mr. Hitar's strategy will no doubt succeed among many such followers of Islam. And this is a good thing.
However, Islam has been ruthlessly slaughtering human beings for well-nigh 13 centuries. This did not happen because someone misinterpreted various passages and verses contained in Islam's "Glorious Qur'an". Islam's history of horror and bloodshed occurred because Muslim leders saaw to it their congregations followed the passages of the Qur'an they chose, while ignoring other more benign ones.
The trouble with this is that the violent messages of the Qur'an are STILL IN THE QUR'AN, whether or not they are chosen to be acted upon. One group of Muslims gets talked out of following the violent passages by a good soul like Hitar but then others are talked INTO it. Since the Qur'an does ORDER the slaughter of non-Muslims to be carried out by Muslims, Hitar's success is apt to be short-lived: there will ALWAYS be Muslims ready to carry out Islamic jihads and other religious killings ordered by the Qur'an. And the Osama bin Ladens, Dr. Ayman Zawahiris, and Zarqawis et al will find them.
Posted by: ecil_man [TypeKey Profile Page] at February 4, 2005 10:09 AM
Mr Hitar could be perfecting the fine art of
deception.
That is what I think as well. This is just too pat and too easy. Who knows what carrots were offered and what sticks were shown to these prisoners? Recall as well that they were prisoners in Yemen, not the most congenial place to be in prison.
There are several possibilities
1. They were offered amnesty as opposed to brutal treatment in jail for a very long time.
2. They were told that the cause of the jihad at this point in time, would be better served if they went along with the "good" judge.
3. They are weak-minded foot soldiers and are easily swayed by a powerful authority.
Taqqiya alert, should be our guiding principle at all times. It is'nt so long afterall, that several jihadis pretended to convert to Christianity, the better to slaughter a Coptic family in Jersey.
Anyone can see what the Qur'an says, and it isn't anything good. Then again, if, and I'm saying it's a big if, they managed to somehow distort the words of the Qur'an into a "Religion of Peace" .. well, Allahu Akbar!
Posted by: pythagoras at February 4, 2005 03:21 PM
No doubt there are many Muslims who by nature do NOT want to be involved in bloodshed of any kind. Mr. Hitar's strategy will no doubt succeed among many such followers of Islam. And this is a good thing.
They should take to the streets in protest, take up arms against and squash this thing themselves before it escalates beyond repair.
The rest of the free world did not want bloodshed but muslims drew first as they have been for quite a while until they did this while GW was on watch and he said the world will soon here all of us and he means it.
What are the parameters this yemeni MASTERMIND( SEE 2-3-05 FOR DEFINITION) used as a guideline.
Would these same parameters produce the same results if done somewhere else?
This my friends is taqiyya and it is easily spotted, if their lips are moving the lie.
If this works so well we should ship them all there.
I THINK THIS IS WHY!! THEY HAVE PROBLEY BEEN TOLD IF YOU DO ANYTHING TO BRING THE RATH OF THE USA ON US WE WILL KILL ALL YOUR FAMILY AND BURIE THEM IN PIG SHEETS AND YOU TO!!
she knows.......you go girl
Morgane:
If its too good to be true, then it is usually not true.
If this guy is successful, he won't live long. If he lives through it,there's more to it than the eye can see. We'll most likely see the same Jihadi's that he let off on the next battlefield.
Perhaps they used the redacted, abridged version of the Koran that was distributed to students in one of the universities here in the states in order to "teach" them about "Islam".
It is so easy to see all the nasty bits of the Koran. I can do it. Any idiot can do it. A dead parrot or an upper-class-British-twit-of-the-year can do it. It truly takes a gifted scholar to find the hopeful, forgiving bits. I hope that the Judge is just such a person, that he isn't using Taqiyya. I suspect he is honest about it, not simply trying to mislead. It's hard to say at this distance. Anyway, it gives me hope.
And in the midst of this war against a vile, hateful mass movement financed by our own dependence on petroleum, hope is good.
More at my blog .
Cheers!
Lorenzo
YOU CANT MAKE CHICKEN SALAD OUT OF CHICKEN SHIT I WOULD DEARLY LOVE TO KNOW WHAT HE'S SAYING OTHER THAN WAIT THE HEAT IS ON RIGHT NOW CHILL OUT.
Don't forget, in Saudi Arabia terrorists are routinely released after completing the terms of their sentences, which is to memorize the qur'an. These fellows could have easily received the same treatment.
while I was working in the penitentiary at Leavenworth the muslim community was abuzz and excited that a real Jihadi was comming and they felt elated that they would meet such an enlightened member of thier world. The man was Abu-Mezer sentenced for making pipe bombs and IED's to blow up tunnels in NewYork City. They invited him to thier services and met him, They found that he was barely literate and was a follower that would parrot anything a leader (imam,sheik,mufti,etc) wanted. If these al-Quida members were anything like the normal muslim that knows enough to make him dangerous, then 4 islamic scholars would run rings around them and make them behave because thats what all good muslims are supposed to do, just what they are told by the most informed about the Koran among them.
Mr. Spencer says:
"But if it's true that Hitar can convince Muslims to renounce violence using the Qur'an -- and I have serious doubts, based on what I know of the Qur'an and other Islamic sources -- then he has found what the whole world wants and needs".
Unlike most of you, Robert Spencer, even though he has serious doubts, couches this skepticism in a willingness to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, if evidence is provided to prove what he is saying.
Like any 'war', we want it all to be black and white, good guys and then, bad guys, overly simplistic.
There ARE all types and some, through no fault of their own, have been mislead and are simply waiting for someone to confirm what they already have grave doubts about.
Arab people are people too. And there are not ONLY two kinds: good and bad. There are, as in America and everywhere, those who are uneducated, ignorant and misinformed, but who follow their leaders and believe they are doing the right thing...until someone teaches them otherwise.
Yes we must be vigilant about taquia (lies), but we must not a priori call people liars until we have the evidence.
Meanwhile, it's great to have people to talk to on this site who are making a conscious effort to understand and ACT. Bless us all.
Patricia
Gary--
Yeah, I maybe shoulda gotten the hat-tip, but hey, I care more about it making a headline.
As for whether it's real or taqiyya, I think we all have to suspend judgment and see how things play out. As the word of this story spreads there will be more spadework done.
Suppose Judge Hitar were lined up to articipate as part of a panel on FrontPage Magazine. How cool would that be?