From the I-told-you-so Department: Business Week's article (thanks to Jerry Gordon) is subtitled "Iraq's new government may be more influenced by Islam than the U.S. hoped."
The article quotes Juan Cole, the University of Michigan prof and a leader of MESA Nostra, or the Saidist intellectual straitjacket that strangles free inquiry about Middle East issues in American universities:
Even if the clerics stay out of politics, Iraq may be on the way to a system where religion and religious laws play a bigger role than U.S. policymakers anticipate, possibly thwarting cherished American goals such as broadening women's rights and creating a freewheeling capitalist economy. "The main goal in political Islam hasn't been clerical rule. It has been the replacement of civil law with Shariah, or Islamic canon law. And that is where Iraq is headed," says Juan Cole, professor of modern Middle Eastern history at the University of Michigan. "The only question is how wide-ranging the substitution will be."
This is a distinction without a difference. If Sharia rules Iraq, it doesn't matter if Sistani or any other cleric actually has the title of head of state or not. The effect will be the same. Witness the article's conclusion:
The southern city of Basra, once relatively secular, has come to look a lot like Iran: Women are afraid to go outdoors without headscarves for fear of reprisals from the SCIRI-affiliated Badr brigades, as well as other toughs associated with the firebrand cleric Moqtada al Sadr. For ordinary Iraqis, who rules the streets may for years be more important than what ends up in the constitution.
Iraqi soil, despite all optimism to the contrary, probably requires plenty of sustained American sunlight and moisture before it can sustain the heavy demand of resources that the plant of Democracy makes before it grows into a tree. Of course, once it becomes a tree, it becomes self-sufficient, bears fruit aand provides shade and succor to all around.
Sadly, given the current world situation, a MacArthur style constitution writing and enforcement by US forces is out of question.
Will all that the US has done in the mideast go in vain? Time will tell. But at least history won't say the US didn't try its best.
If the sunni majority had voted instead of boycotting would this be any different or to they support sharia law as well?
Freedom for such jihadists as Zawahari means freedom from homosexuals (we know how they get free of them), from visible women possibly giving them "impure" thoughts (ditto), and of course freedom for all captured jihadists at Guantanamo Bay or wherever they are incarcerated.
Apparently, they do not understand our concept of freedom as freedom of choice for a religion or no religion, of thought, of dress, for any act and accepting responsibility for it, etc., under a system of laws formulated by the representatives of the population (not ideal, but then what is?). These laws can be changed or abrogated by these same representatives.
Shariah is a petrified code imposed from a distant and murky past and from above. Can it be changed, moderated, partially applied? No matter what is done under it, freedom of religion is not included (except for Muslims). As for freedom of speech--we know what happens if you say something unfavorable about the "founder." And so on, take any of our freedoms and you'll find it won't stand up under shariah.
Islam does allow freedoms that are not what G. W. Bush had in mind, such as the freedom to kill non-Muslims, freedom to incite hate for non-Muslims, freedom to treat women like domestic animals (surgically fixed, beaten, owned), we know the rest.
How there can be freedom with an established, oppressive, intolerant state ideology--take your pick, communism, nazism, Islam--is incomprehensible to our minds.
Today’s OT news and commentary, Always Jihad Related, never to be silenced.
CNN’s Treason (the War on Terror in Iraq):
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/larrykudlow/lk20050211.shtml
(not much is posted on the weekends)
And...
Can we get freedom of mosque and state in the US? Michigan for example?
It all started a long time ago with a caravan raider named Muhammad. He was the L Ron Hubbard of his time, Hubbard's most famous quote being, "If you want to get rich start a religion". L. Ron Hubbard dabbled in Satanism and the occult, while Muhammad was able to foist his hallucinations onto the unwitting Arabian masses as being divine revelations. These revelations got codified into the Koran with it's prime directive being to emulate the life of the prophet, for he has lived the most perfect life ever lived, for he is the most worthy model for all mankind.
Keep in mind folks, that Juan Cole is notoriously anti-Zionist, anti-necon, and just plain anti-American. He will say anything to discredit the Bush administration, even if it means bring attention to dark forces in the Arab world that undermine true democracy.
Nobody in their right mind believed that a democratic Iraq was going to be Switzerland, but I doubt the Shia politicians are going to do too much to alienate the other ethnic groups that have a different vision for Iraq.
I'm particularly interested to see how this will pan out for the kurds, who have been fighting faithfully alongside our boys for an opportunity for representative government...I saw one little interview with one of their representatives who was hoping we wouldn't pull out of Iraq before things are finalized and settled.
I am afraid all will be completely lost if sharia will be the ruling law of Iraq, and Bush said that is entirely possible. He said "that's democracy at work". But is it really? Already 800,000 christians have left Iraq because of bombings of their churches, forced conversions to Islam and other unspeakable crimes.
Rubelev I don't know what Juan Cole is or isn't, but I do know that the Muslims aren't exactly in love with him.
By the way, one can be Anti Zionist, Anti Neo con, and anti Jihadi, while still embracing good ole fashion American Values.
Maybe Juan Cole has a different vision of American than you do, other than say a milk cow for Israel and the Arabs.
Some Muslim Comments vis a vis Juan cole posted on a "free speech" forum (chock full of Muslims, and anti Zionist right wing Christians)
Lead article Juan Cole: Iraqi Press Reaction to Fallujah Killing
Poster comments:
You see Rubelev, the moment that Juan Cole started to talk like an American, and not give whole hearted supported to the "insurgency" he is accused of being a Zionist agent, just as you accuse me of being the opposite.
All I can say is that there are either a bunch of simple minded folk in this world, or people with self righteous, self pitying agendas which demand "either you are with me or you are against me".
By the way there is only one outcome in a country where Muslims is the majority and that is an Islamic state (society) ruled by Shari'a.
Doesn't matter whether it is Sunni or Shi'a.
The big difference between Sunni and Shi'a is that Sunni rule is fragmented, tending to anarchial (save Saudi Arabia, which is a rather unique case in which Arab tribal leader Abdul Aziz struck a bargain with a Muslim fanatic (Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab) for "joint rule" (Attila the Hun and the Witchdoctor).
Shi'a Islam is heirarchial, where mujtahids ascend the socioeconomic ladder, and the numbers of Ayatollahs decrase in proportion to the common mullah, and tends towards centralization of authority, whereas in Sunni Islam authority (which is clerical) is dispersed.
From the aspect of doing business with international financial institutions, and companies a centralized authority is more stable, and has a better chance of honoring contracts,paying back loans, and making the reparations payments that Iraq owes Iran and which the Carlyle Group bought from Kuwait at pennies on the dollar.
The Mullahcracy of Iran, setting aside its Shari'a and rule by clerics is more stable than say a Sunni country, ruled by "elected" strongmen, whose rule is resented,hated and resisted by the mujtahids.
A Sunni governed Iraq can only be ruled by a brutal strongman, be it secular or sectarian.
From the point of view of a secular westerner,there is no difference at all between Sunni and Shi'a. From the Point of view of a global or transnational business, there is a major difference, and that difference is stability and popular support.
In Islamic countries, whether the individual likes it or not, the mullah barks roll over (issues a fatwa) and the population submits.. after all Islam means submission.
Not to worry. Even under Shariah there are guaranteed freedoms: the freedom of religion (you can choose any religion you like, as long as it is Islam), freedom to go on jihad, freedom to kill apostates, targets of a fatwa, Jews, other infidels, homosexuals, those who insult the founder, and to do anything else you wish as long as it is following the example of that most perfect of men and allowed by the jewel of perfect morality and legality, the Q'uran.
OT but
New start for 'extremist' mosque
By Daniel Sandford
BBC home affairs correspondent
In foot-high letters and in black and red, the words "a new beginning for the mosque" were printed on a banner draped from the second-floor window.
Abu Hamza al-Masri was banned from preaching inside the mosque
The incoming trustees of Finsbury Park mosque could not have made their intentions more clear.
There was a heavy police presence as over 200 Muslim men, many of them dressed in suits, attended Friday prayers - the first under the new regime at the mosque.
The khutbah, or sermon, took as its theme how Muslims need to connect better with the rest of humanity.
The new trustees, co-ordinated by the Muslim Association of Britain, had seized the mosque last Saturday, reclaiming it for the mainstream Muslim community in north London.
The Board of Trustees has always been the legal owner of the Central North London Mosque, informally known as Finsbury Park Mosque.
But their power was eroded by the controversial cleric Abu Hamza al-Masri. One senior member of the Muslim Association of Britain said it had been "hijacked by Hamza's mob".
Mr Abu Hamza turned the mosque into the public face of the extremist jihadi movement in Britain.
We will not tolerate anyone who will seek to abuse the mosque
Dr Azzam Tamimi
Muslim Association of Britain
The former Guantanamo detainee Feroz Abassi has written about his time there. He describes how he was encouraged to go to Afghanistan to attend a training camp.
Richard Reid, the failed shoebomber, also passed through the mosque, as did Djamel Beghal, who is currently on trial in France for plotting to bomb the US embassy in Paris.
Now the extremists have been cleared out of the offices and the rooms where they slept.
Dr Azzam Tamimi, of the Muslim Association of Britain, says the plan is to outnumber the extremists to persuade them to stay away.
"For the first few Fridays we will be organising for our members from across London to come and pray here so that we have a strong majority. We will not tolerate anyone who will seek to abuse the mosque," he said.
Worshippers continued to pray outside the mosque during 2004
The mosque cost £8m to build and will be able to take more than 2,000 people for prayer once the women's section has been re-opened.
The trustees now want to turn it into one of the most important centres for the Muslim community in London.
But there was an edgy feel to Friday prayers. No-one knew what to expect. The police officers in the area easily outnumbered the number of Muslim men attending the mosque, as a police helicopter flew overhead.
But apart from a couple of young hotheads, one of them hiding his face with a scarf, there was no trouble.
Finsbury Park Mosque has made a fresh start
Giaour- thanks for the info on that sunni-shiite thing.
"Maybe Juan Cole has a different vision of American than you do, other than say a milk cow for Israel and the Arabs"
As usual Giaour, you are full of it. Folks, check out the quotes by Juan Cole and tell me if you really believe that this nutcase has any legitimate "vision."
http://www.campus-watch.org/quotes.php
Two choice quotes by the "all-American" Juan Cole:
"Even medieval Islamic law recognized the right of Christians, Jews and other monotheists to practice their religion and enjoy rights to their lives and property. This relative tolerance has often been enhanced in the twentieth century by the rise of nationalism, wherein Arab Christians sometimes are privileged as symbols of national authenticity, because Christianity predated Islam in the nation's history."
"About half of Americans are terminally stupid."
I trust this guy about as far as Charles Krauthammer can throw him (and remember folks, Charles is a quadiplegic!)
Two choice quotes by the "all-American" Juan Cole:
"About half of Americans are terminally stupid."
Posted by: Rublev at February 13, 2005 02:17 PM
...and which half do you think that is... ...the half who think the Islamist threat is serious or the Michael Moore-on half who see conspiracies everywhere other than where they actually exist.