Good thing the Saudis are holding that counterterrorism conference, eh? It will help them zero in on the Jews and Christians who are the real terrorists, according to Sheikh Musa Al-Qarni on Saudi TV. Note his repeated references to this posture toward Jews and Christians being fixed in the Qur'an. From MEMRI, with thanks to JC:
'The Jews and Christians are Allah's Enemies'Al-Qarni: "The uproar and the chaos that we see today in the human race – the killing, the acts of aggression, the rape, the robbery, and the disgrace of honor – what causes this is that the banners which are hoisted high are those of the Jews, the Christians, and other religions and faiths, and not the banner of 'There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is Allah's Messenger.'
"Let's have a look at what is written in the Koran. What position must we adopt towards Allah's enemies? Is it the position we have adopted? First of all, we must be aware of the fact that at present we see that [the West] doesn't want us even to say the words 'Allah's enemies.' They don't want us to say that the Jews and the Christians are Allah's enemies. They don't want us to say that the Jews and the Christians are the enemies of the Muslims and the enemies of Islam.
"This is fixed and established in the Koran and in the tradition…
[...]
Interviewer: "You shouldn't blame them for this. We are the ones to blame if we agree to change the Koran and the tradition to suit them."
Al-Qarni: "The terrorists are these Jews and Christians who implement these policies through the use of force, repression, and tyranny, and to this end make use of planes, tanks, and all manner of deadly weapons."
And here is a bit of what faithful readers of Hugh Fitzgerald's Jihad Watch columns will recognize as tu-quoque:
Interviewer: "Aisha's second question [is about whether] Islam spread by the sword. They always say that Islam spread by the sword. How should we respond to them?"Al-Qarni: "First of all, we ask by what means is the freedom that the U.S. wants spread? The freedom that it wants now to market?"
Interviewer: "Through missiles and bombs…"
Al-Qarni: "Through B-50s, bombs that the international community has forbidden, hundred of thousands of armed soldiers – this is how freedom has spread."
Interviewer: "And we don't see any freedom. All we see afterwards is subjugation…"
And here is a restatement of traditional Islamic theology on making war against those who are seen as impeding the progress of Islam:
Al-Qarni: "At any rate, if we return to our discussion of the heart of the matter… First of all, we must realize that Allah obligated us to disseminate this religion all over the globe. And first, it should be spread through outreach and calling people to Allah's word, through pleasing words, gently, and through good deeds. Through letting people hear Allah's words and showing them Islam. However, if we run up against someone who opposes this path and attempts to obstruct the spread of the upright religion and the light, and to obstruct their reaching others – in this case it is a duty to fight such a person. And Allah said: 'Fight them until there is no more strife and Allah's religion reigns supreme.'"We don't agree with those who disavow this completely and say that the religion [of Islam] doesn't use the sword. No. Islam uses the sword when there is no other alternative. Therefore wisdom, as the religious authorities say, consists in utilizing each thing in its proper place. If there is need for the sword, then it is wise to use the sword, and if the occasion requires kind words and outreach, then it is wise to utilize them."
The terrorism conference is a mockery of a travesty of a sham. Here's today's entry from the Saudi embassy:
"2/07/2005
Terrorism conference continues with discussion of final communiqué
Participants in the four-day Counter-Terrorism International Conference continued their discussions in Riyadh today. During its fourth and fifth plenary sessions, recommendations from the ongoing workshops were discussed with the aim of formulating a final communiqué.
Spokesman for the conference General Mansour Al-Turki briefed the media last night on the second day of the conference. Salient points raised by the participants include references to the root causes of terrorism as poverty, violation of human rights, and inequitable distribution of wealth."
How about the salient points of Saudi financing of jihadist groups? Or how about the Wahhabi dissemination of hate propaganda and the incitement to violence?
What a crock.
BTW, re. the Freedom House report:
There's something VERY wrong with the fact that the Wall Street Journal - a newspaper dedicated primarily to economics - has given this report more ink than either Human Rights Watch or Amnesty International.
I had the report read by January 31. It's February 7 and still not a peep from either organization.
However, if we run up against someone who opposes this path and attempts to obstruct the spread of the upright religion and the light, and to obstruct their reaching others – in this case it is a duty to fight such a person. And Allah said: 'Fight them until there is no more strife and Allah's religion reigns supreme.'We don't agree with those who disavow this completely and say that the religion [of Islam] doesn't use the sword. No. Islam uses the sword when there is no other alternative. Therefore wisdom, as the religious authorities say, consists in utilizing each thing in its proper place. If there is need for the sword, then it is wise to use the sword, and if the occasion requires kind words and outreach, then it is wise to utilize them."
I'm sure Ken Livingstone would calmly explain that these quotes have been taken entirely out of context and besides, they come from a website run by a former Mossad agent.
My question is what exactly is there left to discuss with these animals?
These type of comments do so much harm to the good Muslims,what a tragedy that the 0.0008 percent of the worlds "Good" Muslims in America get unfairly blamed for the actions of the 99.9992
percent outside America that follow the Jihadist version of Islam taught by Muhammed.
We should be thankful that all the "True" Muslims chose to live in America,what are the odds for all the "Good" muslims out of 1.2 billion to be in one Country and for all of them to own the "Peaceful" copy of a Quran the exalts Jesus and tells Muslims that all faith have the same God and it's Allah.
NO ISLAM - NO WAR
Hmm--
Participants in the Counter-Terrorism International Conference, held in Riyadh, apparently believe that 'poverty, violation of human-rights, and inequitable distribution of wealth' are the root causes of terrorism.
So--
Could the recent spate of terrorist acts carried out within, and against 'The Kingdom' actually have been comitted not by the enemies of Allah--you know, Jews, Christian Crusaders and other malcontents--but by their very own poverty stricken, disenfranchised Muslims instead?
Then--
Will the Royal Family redistribute some of its oil wealth to Saudi citizens of lesser means, and maybe even start treating them like human beings, in order to quell such activity?
Hmm.
NOPE.
So it is said:"know the enemy, know yourself, and victory Is never in doubt, Not in a hundred battles"
Sun-tzu.
Saudi Islamists are the worst kind out there, why doesn't the States do an Iraq on them, and TAKE their oil as its goal, since freedom there has always been non-existant, so it won't be missed! Who's bright idea was it in the first place to hold such a conference there. Are you sure its not a Terrorism Conference, with all those dirty monkies there! I personally volunteer my services to plant suitcase nukes in the whole "kingdom", more like "hell".
This circus will undoubtedly produce the same remarkable, earth shattering progress as the United Nations. What a waste of time and money. I'm surprised they let our female representative attend without a burqa, or maybe she wore one. That wouldn't surprise me either.
Poverty,(I don't agree)
violation of human rights (I thought that was a western invention and totally 'un-Islamic)
'inequitable distribution of wealth'-
OK: Islamic Terrorists do not murder because they are poor, there might be some, but they murder for the global jihad.
Human rights? See above. No Muslim country gives a s@#t for 'human rights'-
Inequitable distribution of wealth: Instead of giving 155 million $ to the families of suicide bombers, the Saudis should have given that much to their brethren in Bangladesh and in Aceh after the tsunami.(instead of the miserly 15 million $)
Or how about a grand resettlement program for the Phallustinios? With Saudi money they could rebuild the whole of Jerusalem somewhere near Jedda, plenty desert there, a Las Vegas style copy of the holy city and claimed by Muzzies alone. Wouldn't that fix the problem?
But no, I must be daydreaming! It's not that miserable little patch of Israel they want, it's the blood of Israel they're after: Jihad, Jihad, kill kill kill, all in the name of the blodd god Allah and his lunatic , let alone that dirty book, the Qu'ran...
I am a bit surprised about knowalots comments. For being a Muzzie troll he certainly has a good hatred for the Saudis. Anybody got a small nuke handy?
Since he volunteers to blow the Saudi fat cats in the sky we should assist him with his noble task as good as we possibly can...
More for the jihad denial crew to get their PC teeth into (and ignore politely while accusing zionists of world domination plots).
Saudi Arabia is the most dangerous country in the world, he has hate, and more hate, and we have to remember the nazi hate killed 55 million people in the XX century, and if we don´t do nothing about wahabbism, this wins us, greetings
Terminator:
"knowalot" is posing, trying to make us think it is one of us.
The wise among us are not fooled by the muslim troll.
Enemies of a fake spirit.
knowalot is doubtless a troll, but I'm not so sure his/her provenance is Muslim.
waterdragon52:
You must have missed its initial posts, spouting all the usual islamist rhetoric. Then it suddenly did a complete 180, trying since then to pose.
No, CGW, I was around when knowalot first started posting. In fact, I may have actually been the blogger who drew knowalot out on what his/her "brief" was and it turned out to be abortion. (knowalot is "anti" and was playing the moral equivalence game -- i.e.: the US is just as evil as Iraq because it permits abortion)
I don't like abortion, its murder; I don't like terrorists they're murderers; I don't like most of the bloggers here, they fit into 1 of these 2 categories. Put abortion-lovers, terrorists, and homos on an island and I'd bring a suitcase there too!
Oh wait! There is an island with a suitcase ready for them. Its called HELL and they should be accustomed to the selfish customs there, its an-all-you-can-suffer buffet for eternity. They'll be plenty of Americans there, plenty of jihadists, plenty of abortion advocates, plenty oh heathen Orangemen, and plenty of homos.
Here's all your heroes!!!
http://www.reseauvoltaire.net/IMG/pdf/bushregimedeck.pdf
waterdragon52:
muslims are vehemently anti-abortion. Note that "knowalot" does not deny the muslim label. Even the posers usually claim to be something else for awhile, before they 'fess up or run away. Let "knowalot" swear by "allah" that it is not muslim and disavow the so - called "prophethood" of muhammad. Bet it won't happen.
Think what you like, but thus far I've never been wrong even once in spotting 'em. (Not that I'm always right about everything, but there are patterns to the rhetoric that are just too easily identifiable.)
waterdragon52:
Here's one of its posts you may have missed:
"Its about time for some refreshing humor. Oh yeh and death to America, oops I mean Osama!
Posted by: knowalot at February 1, 2005 10:53 PM"
Yes, CGW, I missed that post, but invoking the devil's name, he/she just posted this:
They'll be plenty of Americans there, plenty of jihadists, plenty of abortion advocates, plenty oh heathen Orangemen, and plenty of homos.
Posted by: knowalot at February 8, 2005 02:14 PM
"heathen Orangemen" -- not an expression I'd figure a Muslim would use, but an Irish Catholic might.
waterdragon52:
Let's see how "it" develops. Plenty of taqiyya floating around, making it hard to tell. But I'll give you this one - with a bow on it. ; - )
Humans have an overpowering need to categorize, classify and label. Very useful in the sciences, not so useful when it comes to humans.
But humans are also social creatures, pack animals, that need to find fur of fellow critters to rub against, so they will abandon their self sovereignty and adopt pack values, (group think).
Most of the species are Manichean, their thinking is bifurcated, a consequence perhaps of the bicameral mind, as mirrored in Jesus,Muhammad, and George W. Bush "you are either with me or against me", "with me or with the terrorists".
Not much room on this world for a secular, free thinking, self sovereign, pro choice, homo friendly, heathen such as myself, is there?
One that is a liberal, but not a mindless dogmatic one, because he understands fully that Islam is the most illiberal ideology on the face of the Earth, and it's runner up is dogmatic Christianism, aka Dominion Theology, Christian Reconstructionism, as found in the Roman Catholic Church, orthodox Presbyterian and Southern Baptist congregations.
I very obviously do not share ALL of your values guys, but I do share the most important one - I am an unrelenting out front and in the face "Islamophobe" (which is what Muslims call those who have the guts to quote the Qur'an and sunnah and honestly critique Islam).
And I do my work almost single handedly on an another forum, one which because it has free speech (something muslims deny others) attracts them like fecal matter on a hot sidewalk attracts flies, and is populated, almost overwhelmingly, by leftist dhimmi's and right wing, but virulently Christian, anti semites.
So can I hang around without being called a troll, or a Muzzie, huh please?
BTW. I absolutely despise the Administration and RNC whom I consider sell outs, and toadies of corporate and Saudi interests. And no I am not a leftie or Democrat either,as I equally despise the DNC.
You heard of the Army of one, well meet the party of one.
Back to the subject.
Musa al Qari's logic is (to the Muslim) impeccable, and it causes or should cause our exalted leaders to reconsider the unstated agenda of the Saudi conference on Terrorism.
Kufr means liar, it is the base of the word kaffir (kafir, kafeer, kaffeer), which is variously translated as infidel (a latin word which means literally unfaithful), or unbeliever.
As most know, Islamic ideology holds, that after Muhammad all are born naturally Muslim (which happens to mirror the ideology of Southern Baptists, at least back in my teens when I lived with my uncle, a Southern Baptist minister).
Thus the reason that there exists unbelievers is because they are liars,(kufr) who have hard heads and hearts and refuse to believe, but Catch 22 Allah made them that way.
This leads to the Muslim concept of terrorism, it is all the fault of the kufr, because he refuses to submit to Allah (translation: submit to rule by religious clerics, the mullahs and mujtahids).
So Islamics, such as Musa al Qari and all true Muslims, hold themselves harmless. Terrorism is the fault of the kufr world, of Dar al Harb, because they refuse to submit to their will and rule.
The same mentality in Iraq, figures bandied about that 100,000 Iraqi's killed since the invasion, and all of those deaths (if the number is accurate) are blamed on the Amriki "occupation", even those killed by the Ba'athist and Jihadis,and the fighters uniformed and not in uniform who fought for Saddam and their Allah, during and after the invasion.
In their irrational, but logical to them world, those people (assassinated, blow up, beheaded) would not have been killed, had that not cooperated with the Amriki - the kafir, the infidel, the enemy of their Allah.
In their insane world the Muslim is not responsible for any violence done to non Muslims,or apostates (anyone who does not obey the religious authority) it is
a. The Will of Allah
b. The fault of the victim
Muslim responsibility is like oil and water,worse you can shake oil and water and it get it mix temporarily, more like sand and scrambled eggs.