Jihad Watch director Robert Spencer in FrontPage on Condoleeza Rice's attempts to emulate a great English statesman of the past:
Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice seems to have learned the lessons of English history — but not, unfortunately, those of Churchill or Pitt, but of an older, less lionized figure: Aethelred the Unready.In the year 994, Aethelred began paying off Danish raiding parties rather than fighting them. These payoffs, known as danegeld, continued sporadically until 1012. As English schoolboys used to be able to tell you before their school hours were entirely given over to multicultural studies, the money didn’t keep the raiders away, but only brought more. The English came to see that paying tribute was self-defeating: it weakened them while strengthening their enemies — effectively subsidizing their own demise. It was, as Lenin would put it much later, a case of selling their enemies the rope with which they themselves would be hanged.
If Condoleeza Rice gets her way, the world will learn this lesson anew. The new Secretary of State is reportedly pursuing a proposal to raise money for danegeld, er, that is, a pension fund for jihad terrorists who promise to stop murdering people. Israel National News states that Rice “has proposed a $100 monthly allowance to terrorists who agree to lay down their arms and retire or find another profession. The money would be part of a $350 million package deal announced by U.S. President George Bush this past week. The Bush administration suggested that Congress consent to send $41 million immediately for an ‘immediate impact in support of democratic transition.’… Rice, about to pay her first visit to the Middle East in her new position as successor to Colin Powell, wants part of the money to go directly to ‘retired’ terrorists. Speaking between visits to European countries, she proposed a pension fund for at least 1,000 terrorists.” The International Herald Tribune also spoke of plans for “retirement benefits for members of Palestinian militias.”
Such plans, of course, are yet another indication of the dangers of misapprehending the nature of the present conflict. Rice is most likely proceeding from the widespread assumption that poverty causes terrorism, and thus a little cash in the wallet of a suicide bomber will persuade him to give life a second chance. Yet this idea has been proven false again and again. Study after study has shown that terrorists are generally better educated and wealthier than their more peaceful counterparts. Even the Saudi columnist columnist Muhammad Mahfouz, writing in the Saudi Gazette, noted recently (according to the Middle East Media Research Institute), that “some youths belonging to rich families and others who are well positioned in the state’s civil service hierarchy are implicated in terrorist crimes. This [means] that financial and economic factors can not be associated with” terrorism. Likewise, research scientist Scott Atran has published in the New York Times findings that showed that suicide bombers were actually most often from educated and relatively affluent backgrounds.
Rice’s analysis shows no awareness of this. She seems to subscribe instead to the view of Prince Talal bin Abdul-Aziz, the brother of Saudi Arabia’s King Fahd, who recently — with blithe disregard of Osama bin Laden’s millions — declared: “Unemployment creates one of the cornerstones of terrorism, and the poor who cannot get food on his table resorts to other means, which are involuntary human reactions.” Ah — pensions, that will solve it.
I wonder if Rice will also consider pensions for the Saudis themselves, since they have, according to a new report from Freedom House, distributed tracts in American mosques that tell Muslims to “hate” non-Muslims “for their religion” and that those who leave Islam “should be killed because [they] have denied the Koran.” Will she write a check for the American Muslims who believe that, as another Saudi-distributed piece has it, “it would be lawful for Muslims to spill [the] blood and to take [the] money” of Muslim homosexuals and adulterers? Will she subsidize those American mosques that are counseling their members not to become American citizens, but merely to take wealth and knowledge from the infidel and use it for the service of the umma?
No one who is committed to the jihad ideology will be dissuaded from his dreams of Sharia by a hundred dollars a month from Uncle Sam. Such an absurd idea would never have entered the minds of Rice or anyone at State if they had really examined and understood the motives and goals of the global jihadist movement. Or at least if they had grasped that once you pay the danegeld, you never get rid of the Dane.
I'm all for paying ex-terrorists $100, as long as they're dead.
It is always a temptation to an armed and agile nation,
to call upon a neighbour and to say,
We invaded you last night, we are quite prepared to fight,
Unless you pay us cash to go away.
And that is called asking for Danegeld,
And the people who ask it explain,
That you've only to pay'em the Danegeld,
And then you'll be rid of the Dane!
It is always a temptation to a rich and lazy nation,
To puff and look important and to say,
Though we know we should defeat you, we have not the time to meet you,
We will therefore pay you cash to go away.
And that is called paying the Danegeld,
But we've proved it again and again,
That if once you have paid him the Danegeld,
You never get rid of the Dane!
It is wrong to put temptation in the path of any nation,
For fear it should succumb and go astray,
So when you are requested to be pay up or be molested,
You will find it better policy to say,
We never pay anyone Danegeld,
No matter how trifling the cost,
For the end of that game is oppression and shame,
And the nation that plays it is lost.
The poem above is "Danegeld" by Rudyard Kipling.
And she was played for a fool by abbas??
Standing in front of a picture of the MONSTER arafat shaking hands with abbas??
Yes there is worry in the air?
Will the USA sell out Israel in their high hopes or will They have leval heads and Defend the West and Our way of life??
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength, Wisdom, Sight, and Courage to stay the course to Destroy ALL Islamic Terroist and ALL who Support them Amen
With the Mexican border completely out of control, and now a pension fund for Muslim killer toads, I think it's safe to say that our Government has lost their minds
The Mafia calls this protection money. We won't burn down your store if you pay us off. Paying jihadists not to hit us is a akin to this tried and true concept. I am sure that other civilizations have found out the hard way.
I will say it again: sometimes the "intellectual elite" possessed of advanced degrees can't see beyond the end of their noses. Some of them know only what is found in books and have a dearth of common sense.
Anyone on main street that has had to, and in some cases still has to, fend off the protection racket of various crime families and other now emerging gangs fully understands this concept.
I am sure that some apologist OR an academic with "correct credentials" has been feeding Dr. Rice AND the president a line of bull on this subject. The sad thing is that we will all pay for their gullibility.
The nickname, 'The Unready' does not as many might assume mean not prepared but comes from the Anglo-Saxon, unrede which means 'Ill Advised'
Ethelred paid the equivalent of £10,000 in 991, but each time he entered into this unworthy bargain it cost him more - £16,000 in 994, £24,000 in 1002 and £30,000 in 1007.
There is also some story from the Old Testament where a similar event happened. Please someone remind me of the details.
More money for funding islamic terrorism, 350 million dollars. Hmm...can I be a islamic terrorist too? *raises hand*
I don't know if I like Kipling. You see I've never kippled.
I guess that could be one way to help fund Hamas.
Robert,
Danegeld is a wonderful example. A few centuries earlier, the Byzantine Empire paid similar tribute to the Avars. Not until the Avars and their allies laid seige to Constantinople in 626 did the Romans rid themselves of the Avar threat. By paying the Avars tribute over and over, the Byzantine Empire encouraged its enemies and nearly funded its own destrction.
One can only be amazed that Ms Rice, an intelligent ,well educated[one presumes smart]
lady would play Dumbass to Abbas...Billions have already been poured into the coffers of the Palestinians, funding the likes of HAMAS and HIZBOLLAH - with weaponry to kill more Jews and terrorize ordinary Palestinians who live in squalor and poverty. NO ONE HAS EVER DEMANDED ACCOUNTABILITY FOR WHERE THE MONEY HAS GONE!!
This is another example of disastrous American Foreign Policy - throw money at a Problem and it will somehow miraculously disappear - there are only good guys and bad guys - Abbas is a 'good guy' when in fact he is a terrorist only biding his time .Did like the poem about 'Danegeld.'
Please note that Aethelred after making his long suffering subjects pay protection money was forced to flee for his life when the Danes, encouraged by numerous payments of Danegeld, invaded en masse and took over his Kingdom...
Nice choice of poem, Alon.
I sent a copy of it to Condaleeza Rice at the State Department, just for chuckles.
**Millions for defense, not one penny for tribute**
Treehugger
Exactly right, we never got rid of the Dane.
It gets worse. By 1012 the payment was 48,000 lb of silver. Then in 1013 Svein Forkbeard attacked in earnest, Aethelred fled to Normandy, London fell and Svein became King although he only lived 5 more weeks. Aethelred’s son Edmund Ironside and Sveins son Cnut (better known as King Canute) fought at the Battle of Ashingdon in 1016 and Edmund was forced to divide his kingdom with Cnut. After Edmund’s death some months later Cnut ruled the whole of England and married Aethelred’s widow Emma.
And here the story differs from our potential future, in that by this time the Danes had become Christian and Cnut was actually a capable King, somewhat underrated, who introduced English ideas and bishops into Denmark, reformed the currency, made treaties with the rest of Europe, all reasonable kingly stuff. The whole business of demonstrating that he could not turn back the waves was to show that he realised his powers were not absolute.
Somehow I don’t see such a happy outcome from paying retired Jihadis pensions (old Jihadis never die they just have big families).
Hi Morgane
This is the second time we have posted the same thoughts, within minutes of each other.
"Only this ceaseless negation, including the negation of the initial attempts at negation, can lead us beyond a reshuffling of the cards so as to achieve an equitable redistribution of the world’s wealth."http://www.sdonline.org/34/eli_c_messinger.htm
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"James Madison, the father of our Constitution, said, in a January 1794 speech in the House of Representatives, "The government of the United States is a definite government, confined to specified objects. It is not like state governments, whose powers are more general. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government." http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42778
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Marxism was not born in the Soviet Union, and it did not die with it either.
The commie link above did'nt take--
http://www.sdonline.org/34/eli_c_messinger.htm
Marcuse?
http://www.marxists.org/subject/frankfurt-school/
http://www.newtotalitarians.com/FrankfurtSchool.html
http://www.marxists.org/subject/humanism/
Isn't paying the jihadist who remains an adherent of Islam an insinuation of the jizya tax?
Shouldn't this thread be on Dimmi Watch?
This could be a good thing IF in order for the terrorists to collect the money they have to show up somewhere to receive it. That's when they are arrested. In short, a sting op. If not arrested then at least we would know their names, addresses, a lot of data could be assimilated on these terrorists for continued survellance.
Perhaps she is giving them the rope with which to hang themselves? This would be the only way that the rest of the world will finally see exactly what motivates the jihadis proving they want no peace. Talk won't work. Fighting will only create another Iraq. This sounds to me like it could have ulterior motives. The US is not and never has been in the habit of overt payoffs like this. I think there's more to it than we see on the surface. If we wanted to pay anyone off, we could have done this in Iraq, Afghanistan, any number of places. We're not doing it anywhere else.
Worth consideration, I think.
All are free to flame me now.
Yo, DIXIEHAMMER,
Its called self-replicating and entrenched governmental/societal pathology.The majority of people don't really want to be free, they want to be taken care of and never grow up.
Our forebearers let us down,and now nothing short of a counter-revolution(to negate the counter-culture revolution), which at this point would mean civil war...
this was from a related thread:
The number 1 reason Bush or Republicans have gotten any support from me was the FACT that the commie-Dems want to illegally disarm the law-abiding citizenry. A TOP PRIORITY OF TOTALITARIANS.
Ashcroft has reversed the modern trend of subversive leftist judges and politicians, and re-established the legal basis of the citizen's Right to Bear Arms per the 2nd Amendment.
The leftists(and others) have been doing what the muslims have been doing, they take the text from the Consitution(or Koran) and twist the meaning to suit their agenda, knowing that alot of people won't bother to look into the documents like the debates,the Federalist Papers, speeches,letters and diaries,and early legal opinions(or the Hadith-Sunna-Sira,recorded history etc) that leave absolutely no doubt about the purpose and meaning of the Constitution and Bill of Rights(or islam), as envisioned and enacted by the Founders.
Its clear to me the American experiment has failed, it has been destroyed from within over many years of subversion and circumvention of the Laws of the Land, and recovery is unlikely. America is a Socialistic society and will continue on that path as the situation allows. All the non-sense about major differences between the 2 political parties(not individuals) is the illusion of choice propagated by the media.
The real choice is between a fast suicide or a prolonged one.
Pension fund for terrorists?
A bullet will do! A rope would be more economical since it can be re-used. But Condi (and everyone in this administration) gives me the impression that the lame are following the blind.
With such vision and enlightenment of our destiny's masters one can only shiver in bewilderment...
http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/02/10/congress.immigration.ap/index.html
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Hoping to keep drivers licenses out of the hands of terrorists, the House voted Thursday to make states verify that applicants are U.S. citizens or legal immigrants.
Republicans pushed the measure through on a 261-161 vote despite protests from governors and state motor vehicle departments that it would be too costly and would require them to take on the role of immigration officers.
The bill also would make it easier for judges to deport immigrants seeking political asylum if they think they might be terrorists.
"Common sense says we should not allow suspected terrorists to be able to stay inside our borders if they could harm us," said House Speaker Dennis Hastert.
The measure was rejected by Congress and the White House in December as part of a bill reorganizing intelligence agencies in response to flaws found after the September 11, 2001 terrorism attacks. It was revived with newly won support from the Bush administration.
"Today there are over 350 valid drivers license designs issued by the 50 states. We all know it's very difficult for security officials at airports to tell the real ID cards from the counterfeit ones," said the bill's sponsor, House Judiciary Committee Chairman James Sensenbrenner.
Sensenbrenner, R-Wisconsin, said the new features that states would have to include on drivers licenses would prevent terrorists from using them as IDs to board planes like the September 11 hijackers did.
Governors, state legislators and motor vehicle departments have all argued that requiring verification of background information such as Social Security numbers and whether a person is in the United States legally would be burdensome.
The National Governors Association and a group representing motor vehicle department administrators said in a letter to House leaders that the measure is a "massive unfunded mandate."
The bill is expected to have more difficulty in the Senate, where several Republican lawmakers have said they want it considered as part of a broader immigration package.
Republican Sen. John Cornyn of Texas, chairman of the Senate Judiciary immigration subcommittee, has said he supports Sensenbrenner's proposals to bar illegal immigrants from using driver's licenses as identification to get on airplanes or enter federal buildings, but that this issue must be dealt with along with other immigration proposals.
Although reshaping U.S. immigration law is a priority of Bush's second term, his proposal for a guest worker program wasn't on the table as the Republican-controlled House took up Sensenbrenner's bill.
Sensenbrenner said his legislation deals with border security. Including Bush's guest worker proposal or other measures would muddy the debate and mark all immigrants as terrorists, he said.
"I think they are two separate issues. The immigration question is something the Judiciary Committee will handle later on," Sensenbrenner said.
"I am looking for something that's effective in dealing not only with the labor shortage, particularly in certain industries, but also one that is fair to American workers and one which will be effective in dealing this particular problem rather than passing a piece of paper and having the president sign it," he said.
Our forefathers would not be happy:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1327492/posts
muslims of the nineteenth century
Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at February 10, 2005 11:15 AM
(old Jihadis never die they just have big families).
Terrific.
Oyster:If we wanted to pay anyone off, we could have done this in Iraq, Afghanistan, any number of places. We're not doing it anywhere else.
That is precisely what is being done. Tens of billions of dollars are being paid to Afghanistan and Iraq, just to keep their leaders and the war lords happy. It is jizya and nothing else. And yes, the US has been paying off N. Korea, Pakistan and assorted other muslim countries.
I would like to believe your proposal that this is all a ploy to bring the Pali agenda in the open. But this was exactly the lame excuse given by Barak, when his proposals fell apart when Arafat rejected them. Thank God that Arafat rejected them, or Jerusalem would effectively be a Palestinian capitol by now. I think it was a very stupid and dangerous gamble that Barak was undetaking, when he gambled on the future of Israel on the hunch that Arafat would reject the accords.
Desending to this level is heartbreaking, depressing, and downright outrageous.
If Ms. Rice is going to represent our best interests in the middle east, then, perhaps, she should be enlightened by reading/studying Jihad Watch. I am afraid she is not only misguided, but most probably uneducated to the true nature of Islam.
If for what she stands for is this kind of weak discourse, then failure is the only possible outcome.
Does the United States have enough money to pay off all our enemies, and those who want to destroy all os us?
After Rome became fat, weak, and its military legions weary, it paid off the barbarians who eventually destroyed all her glory.
Someone please get our present administration here to Jihad Watch, and please God, let them all get a clue.
Jocko
(Yes, I'm back, but not quite the nuclear fire ball bad boy I was before...)
Ahaz sent a message to King Tiglath Pileser of Assyria and begged for help.
So Tiglath Pileser came to Judah, but instead of helping, he made things worse.
Ahaz gave him gifts from the LORD's temple and the king's palace, as well as from the homes of Israel's other leaders. The Assyrian king still refused to help Ahaz.
(The Bible, 2 Kings 16:18-21)