I expand on this response to Jamal Badawi's offer of a million dollars to anyone who can find that the Qur'an condones religious warfare, and explore the implications of the offer, in FrontPage today.
(By the way, I heard from Dr. Badawi last night, but alas, he didn't ask me where he should send the million-dollar check. He just asked for more Qur'an verses, since I had said there were "many others," and I supplied some more (there are still more). So I expect he may be drafting a reply.)
A prominent Islamic apologist named Jamal Badawi, renowned as a “moderate Muslim,” has offered one million dollars to anyone who can find references in the Qur’an that condone “religious war, or jihad.”The Bergen Record reported this at face value, so even though it noted that Badawi made the challenge “jokingly,” Badawi’s point was made: the Qur’an does not teach religious warfare, and it’s only media distortion that gives any other impression.
Badawi almost certainly knows better. But his “joking” offer only obfuscates the truth about how jihadists use the Qur’an to recruit and motivate terrorists — thereby blindsiding gullible Americans into thinking that mosques do not need to be monitored, and Muslims are unfairly “profiled” by law enforcement agencies. As such, Badawi’s offer is not a joke. It is a political statement, and one that harms our ability to guard against terrorist attacks on American soil.
Dr. Badawi, I want to be a millionaire. Here are a few quotes from the Qur’an:
Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors. And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (2:190-191)Slay the disbelievers. Sounds like a religious war to me. So does this:
Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not. They ask thee concerning fighting in the Prohibited Month. Say: "Fighting therein is a grave (offence); but graver is it in the sight of Allah to prevent access to the path of Allah, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, and drive out its members." Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can. And if any of you Turn back from their faith and die in unbelief, their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the Hereafter; they will be companions of the Fire and will abide therein. (2:216-217)And this, which identifies the enemies of the Muslims as disbelievers and friends of Satan:
Let those fight in the cause of Allah Who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of Allah,- whether he is slain or gets victory - Soon shall We give him a reward of great (value). And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?- Men, women, and children, whose cry is: "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will protect; and raise for us from thee one who will help!" Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan: feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan. (4:74-76)Here the religious warriors, or the angels who protect them, are to behead those who do not believe:
Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them." (8:12)Cf. this verse, which also makes clear the religious character of the fight:
Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost. (47:4)This one states the goal of the fighting in terms that also make clear that the war is religious:
And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah. (8:39)This one, like many others, makes it clear that the fighting that believers must do is not spiritual, but physical -- otherwise the promise that the believers will overcome long odds would make little or no sense:
O Prophet! rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers: for these are a people without understanding. (8:65)This is the celebrated "Verse of the Sword":
But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. (9:5)Again, hard to see that as spiritual or metaphorical fighting. And this one establishes that the warfare is against the People of the Book, that is, Jews and Christians:
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. (9:29)There are many other such verses, but I don’t have to speak with Dr. Badawi to know what he will say about this list: I am taking the verses out of context. I can only understand them properly in the original Arabic. I need to be well-versed in the science of Qur’anic interpretation, tafsir, to be able to understand them. Only an “Islamophobe” would take such verses at face value.
Very well. But what is he going to do about Muslims who read such verses and take them at face value? For instance, the Ingushetian Shura Council in Chechyna has explained in a recent communiqué that “Allah created people so that He could be worshipped alone, so no companions are ascribed to Him, and He permitted Jihad on His Straight Way, so that the Religion of Allah could be above all, so that all areas of life could be guided by Islam, and so that the Earth could be cleansed of unbelief.” In support of this idea, the Council quoted Sura 8:39, as it appears above. Likewise, in a treatise entitled “The true meaning of Jihad” that was posted last year on several jihadists websites, one Sidik Aucbur charged that “the West” was trying to distort the meaning of jihad by teaching that “Jihad is only about struggling against our desires.” He quotes the Qur’an copiously to establish that jihad means warfare against unbelievers, and declares: “there are over 120 verses of the Qur’an that use the Shari’ [Islamic legal] meaning of Jihad to mean fighting and killing.” Aucbur adds that all four major schools of Sunni Muslim jurisprudence agree on this point: “It has been agreed upon by the classical scholars that the Shari'ah meaning of Jihad is to fight and kill the kuffar [unbelievers]: Hanafi school in the book ‘Badiia as Saniia;’ Maliki school in the book ‘Manhal Jaleel,’ Shaffi school in the book ‘al Iqnaa,’ Hanbali school in the book ‘al Mughni.’”
Aucbur is hardly eccentric in pointing out this sort of thing; such arguments are echoed by jihadists worldwide, who use passages of the Qur’an and Islamic law to recruit new jihad warriors and convince Muslims that theirs is the “true Islam.” Is Badawi unaware of all this? Rather than throw his millions around with claims that the Qur’an contains nothing in the way of exhortations to religious warfare, wouldn’t it be more honest of him to acknowledge that such passages exist and are used by jihadists, and to offer some cogent explanation of how their force can be blunted within the Islamic community — if indeed it can?
This is one of the fundamental defects of the post-9/11 discourse in America: Muslim spokesmen again and again have insisted that Americans accept that Islam is a religion of peace, without offering a shred of evidence to this effect. Meanwhile, Muslims worldwide continue to commit violence in the name of Islam, and bland denials like Badawi’s not only do nothing to stop them, but perpetuate political myths that continue to mislead Americans about the sources of terror. As long as this goes on, nothing effective can or will be done to stop the ideology of jihad terrorism from proliferating in mosques and Islamic schools in the United States and around the world.
Dr. Badawi, I hope to hear from you soon. I’m so excited about your million-dollar offer, I have already started spending the money. After you pay me, I’ll treat you to lunch in Gstaad; we’ll get there on the new Jihad Watch Learjet.
I can see it all now -the new jihadwatch think tank at jihadwatch towers on jihadwatch boulevard next to the jihadwatch airstrip for the jihadwatch jet - or at least a helipad, for those short, quick trips to DC so Robert can advise the President.
yes!
rb:
*LOL*
Yes, RB!
Watch for my forthcoming album, "From Jihad Watch Boulevard in Secure Undisclosed Locationville."
I am being fitted today for my white jewel-encrusted jumpsuit.
Best
Robert Spencer
I'm sure we all know what to expect from Badawi and others like him... ...either a denial inspired by Bill Clinton's response when asked if he had ever had sex with Monica Lewinski, or a Noam Chomsky-type stonewall, such as when the great one was publicly confronted about the support he lent to the notorious Holocaust denier, Robert Faurisson, by simply denying that Faurisson had written anything anti-Semetic in his book. Clinton and Chomsky both display various types of personality disorders. Hard to say what sort afflicts Prof. Badawi.
Off topic, but not really, and disturbing nonetheless: Alan Colmes, of Hannity & Colmes fame, interviewed a CAIRrorist about a Christian radio station dropping their contract with CAIR.
Attached is the link to the story. Please e-mail Mr. Colmes and politely ask him why he is sucking up to, and siding with people like CAIR.
Also attached is his e-mail address. This is ridiculous and shameful.
Story link: http://www.cair-net.org/default.asp?Page=articleView&id=36070&theType=NB
Alan's e-mail: Colmes@foxnews.com
Mr. Spencer
Sorry but a million for a jet is not the one you would want to fly in??
After taxes and all??
Let us know when he pays we know how they lie??
Seams that Iran has a few problems mosques burning and now they don't know when they have damns blow-in up or things falling from the sky??
Maybe the students found that marching in the street got them nothing and they have a little home grown terrorist attacking them for FREEDOM??
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM OPEN THE WORLDS EYES TO THEIR THREAT GIVE THE WORLD COURAGE TO STAND UP AND FIGHT THIS EVIL AMEN
PS
Can't play this morning they have the new spring shoes and skiirts in??
PSS
The last child who saw Mary has Passed this week at 97?
N.J. water plant worker was killed?? was she in the know?
Remember the Germans were selling to Jews a Baby Forl that caused brain damage seams they left out a vitial vi.
Hope you can collect that million dollars!
Robert Spencer, Catherine:
You can now listen to Sheik Yer'mami "Allahu Akhbar"- 'my Allah is better than yours' and 'cut off a head for Al Jazeera'-
go to http://www.terrorists-suck.org/fight/winds_of_Jihad.mp3
fasten your seatbelts, pump up the volume, make sure your bullet proof vest is firmly strapped to the body and LET IT FLY!!!
Sorry, try this:
http://www.terrorists-suck.org/fight/winds_of_jihad.html
(should work)
Posted by: Terminator at February 17, 2005 09:34 AM
1/2 a Gold Star for you??
Liked the part about this dirty book is for every moron!! and the part about can't screw when you blow off you di-k??
Still the Best!!
http://www.beecy.net/frank/
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength, Wisdom, Sight, and Courage to stay the course to Destroy ALL islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Open the Worlds Eyes to their Threat give the World Courage to Stand Up and Fight this Evil Amen
Yes, the second link works! Would you like me to post the lyrics as well or is the message clear?
The original words are slightly changed: Originally it was supposed to be: "Milk your camel, whack the donkey, shag the goat and spank yer monkey..." But in the heat of the recording battle some of the finer things got lost...
As you all know: Mohammed loved his camel milk, everything else simply describes what Arabs do and always did, like cutting off heads for example, but now they do it for Al Jazeera...In the 'good old days' they did it simply 'to strike terror in the hearts of thyne enemy...'
Allahu Akhbar, sez Sheik Yer'mami- (and Sheik U 2)
See you in Gstaad, Robert! (Bring plenty money)
Sorry, Robert - this guy answered the million dollar question over 8 years ago:
"The most Exalted said in the verse of AsSayef, The Sword "so when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters where ever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush". (AtTauba; 9:5)."
Mr. Badawi, send your check to:
Sheikh Osama bin Laden
c/o Mujahadeen Without Borders
Cave 666
Hindu Kush Mountains, Afghanistan
http://www.islamistwatch.org/main.html
"...Meanwhile, Muslims worldwide continue to commit violence in the name of Islam, and bland denials like Badawi’s not only do nothing to stop them, but perpetuate political myths that continue to mislead Americans about the sources of terror..."
In some circles, that's called "providing political cover for terrorists".
http://www.beecy.net/frank/
JUST LIKED THIS STORY JUST SHOWS WHO IS FOR AND AGAINST THE USA AND FREEDOM??
http://www.campusreportonline.net/main/articles.php?id=305
Berkeley’s Churchill
by: Malcolm A. Kline, February 16, 2005
Dr. Hatem Bazian [pictured], who wondered aloud why we don’t have an intifada in the United States, would certainly merit this distinction. He teaches at the University of California at Berkeley. Earlier last year, he asked a San Francisco audience, “We’ve been watching intifada in Palestine, we’ve been watching uprising in Iraq, and the question is, what are we doing?”
“How come we don’t have an intifada in this country?”
The Detroit News quoted Dr. Bazian as saying, “The Day of Judgment will not happen until the trees and the stones will say, ‘O Muslim, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him.’” Dr. Bazian told O’Reilly that he did not give the Day of Judgment quote but that it comes from The Hadith.
The Muslim Student Association of the University of Southern California describes the Hadith as “a narration about the life of the Prophet
READ THE WHOLE STORY??
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her ive them Strength, Wisdom, Sight, and Courage to stay the course to Destroy ALL islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Amen
And Dr. Badawi is correct, the Qur'an should not be read out of context. So, relevant to these passages is the 1300 history of Islamic expansion by warfare, subjugation of non-Muslims, and, of course, passage after passage in the Qur'an and the hadiths that dehumanize and demonize non-believers.
How long can one go in any Sura without mention of the evil, the baseness, the worthlessness of non-believers? And what about the constant iterations of brutal divine punishment?
Hence, in the larger context of the Qur'an how can one escape confronting the notions that aggression, suspicion, violence, and even brutality against non-believers is not only acceptable, but enjoined on those who accept the existential question of the Qur'an: believe and obey the prophet or be damned!
http://www.islamistwatch.org/main.html
A Letter From Osama bin Laden to the American People
released to press 11-17-2002 or thereabouts
Why teaching the truth about history is so important??
http://www.islamistwatch.org/main.html
Jihad against Jews and Crusaders
issued by The World Islamic Front, Feb 23, 1998
http://www.islamistwatch.org/main.html
Declaration of War on America
August 23, 1996 Hindukush Mountains, Khurasan, Afghanistan
By Usama Bin Laden
WHAT WERE OUR CONGRESS AND PRESIDENT CLINTON DOING WHEN THIS MONSTER DECLAIRED WAR ON THE USA??
THAT IS NOW OLD NEWS TIME TO MOVE ON AND DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE IN THIS WAR THAT HAS BEEN DECLAIRED ON THE USA!!
TIME TO FIGHT FOR SHORT SKIRTS AND BEER AND WINE!!
THIS MONSTER[which I think is changed his sex??] HAS HIS ARMYS LOBBING OUR GOVERNMENT THEY HAD BETTER STAND UP FOR AMERICA THE STAKES ARE TO HIGH FFOR THEIR SILLY GAMES!!
WHAT WAS IT SEN. FIENSTIEN SAID 44,000 OTM’S WELL SEN. THAT IS JUST WHAT WAS CAUGHT??
THE ARMYS HAVE BEEN LET IN BY THE LAW MAKERS BECAUSE THEY WERE PLAYING GAMES !
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength, Wisdom, Sight, and Courage to stay the course to Defeat ALL islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Ope the Worlds Eyes to their Threat give them World Courage to Stand Up and Fight this Evil Amen
Robert, you should sue the weaselley scam artist for breach of contract.
His offer is an implied contract, is it not?
A show trial with lots of expert witnesses about the true nature of Islam would be great fun, not to mention educational. You might get lucky with scheduling and fit in between the celebrity trials which the media prefers.
Let me guess: all such concepts of war against unbelievers arise from mistranslation of the original Arabic texts. Even Westerners who learn Arabic will miss the true meaning of Islamic teachings, because they're not versed in the subtle ways of Islamic thought. The same goes for apostates - obviously they're not qualified to speak about Islam, since their apostasy is proof that they've failed to see the truth of Islam.
Don't forget this little tidbit:
Qur’an 66:1 “Allah has already sanctioned for you the dissolution of your vows.”
Bukhari:V4B52N268 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘War is deceit.’”
Qur’an 4:142 “Surely the hypocrites strive to deceive Allah. He shall retaliate by deceiving them.”
Bukhari:V7B71N661 “Magic was worked on Allah’s Apostle and he was bewitched so that he began to imagine doing things which in fact, he had not done.”
Here's some more Jihad verses:
http://www.angelfire.com/moon/yoelnatan/koranwarpassages.htm
As a child in Merry Olde England, I used to spend some time amusing myself by going to Hyde Park Corner, where anyone who wanted to could speak. The people who gathered to hear these people were just as much fun to listen to as the speakers themselves.
In this country, we may not have a Hyde Park Corner, but we have Central Park and hundreds of other public places that would make great sites for speakers.
How about a public reading of the Koran? It could be done much in the fashion of the reading of the names on the Vietnam Memorial, with one person after another reading off several names until finished.
How many people does it take to do a public reading of the Koran? If I could think of some sort of punch line, I'd make a joke, but frankly, I think it would be a good idea. It couldn't be forbidden (could it?), and people might gather just out of curiosity.
Of course, the Reading would have to be done with the Readers disguised in some way, no doubt, since our peaceful brethren might find themselves "offended" at an undisguised expose of their sacred text.
After all, if a whole lot of ordinary citizens heard the real deal, it might erode the attempts of the apologists to lie--er, "interpret" Islam.
I am being fitted today for my white jewel-encrusted jumpsuit.
Best
Robert Spencer
Posted by: jihadwatch at February 17, 2005 08:45 AM
ROTFL Gold Star for you today!!
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength, Wisdom, Sight, and Courage to stay the course to Destroy ALL islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Open the Worlds Eyes to their Threat Amen
I've been arguing with a Muslim cabal for two years now.
Here is their tactic.
l. "You can't speak about Islam, because you haven't read the Qur'an".
Now in Islamic ideology we are all born Muslim, and we are liars (kufr, because we were raised that way. However if you read the Qur'am and persist in your unbelief you are kafir," one who knows a truth and seeks to cover it up, hide it, or otherwise deny it. Kafir of course covers all whose "hearts and minds are sealed by Allah" and refuse to submit to (religious clerics) Allah.
Islam has built in circular reasoning, to protect the believers from thinking, and rational thought.
2. They prey on the ignorance of Westerners, they will argue "you can't find that in the Qur'an or the Qur'an says this, not that, or you are taking it out of context.
They don't tell the kafir about the all important Sunnah and fiqh's (Juridicial rulings),because Christians, especially protestants, rely solely on the Bible, which the Muslims equate to the Qur'an. Judaism has the Mishnah/Talmud as supplements, Catholicism has Papal Bulls, encyclicals (which few Catholics are familiar with), but it is easy to deceive Christians, especially protestants by ignoring, and/or discounting the Sunnah.
If you engage in serious conversation with Muslims, they will even "reject" the Hadiths, to the point of claiming they are false (there is no grievous punishment in Islam for disputing or denouncing the Hadiths, only the Qur'an.
Here's part of a conversation I had with a Muslim scholar. I discontinued it because it got nowhere.
My comments in Italics his in bold
The subject of conversation was that I took the Qur'an out of context, my reply was:
Every Surah and ayat in the Qur'an stands on its own it is the ineffable word of Allah.
Authenticity and signification are separate. All verses are authentic.
Some verses convey a single indisputable meaning; others have several possible meanings with one being apparent; others have several possible meanings where the intended meaning is other than what is initially apparent, yet supported through external evidence; and some verses simply cannot be known except to God Himself.
Some verses contain things that are absolute; others contain things that are qualified.
Some verses contain ambiguous meanings, others contain meanings that dispel the ambiguity.
Some verses are general, some verses restrict the generality.
A third party commented:
What more could a person ask for if they want to become an 'authority'?
Uh, sitting down and studying the Qur'an. The point is that verses are not understood outside of a greater context.
Read Q 3:7.
. Something that helps here is that parts of the Qur'an explain other parts, and there are prophetic accounts that also contain explanations. These are a foundation. Then we have 1200 years of recorded explication. Obviously, reading the works of sages does not guarantee that you become one of them.
You might notice that this is the kind of conversation an unbeliever would have with a Catholic Priest, Protestant Minister or Rabbi, as they will inevitably start to squirm and squiggle, and yap about exegesis, and accuse you of eisegesis (reading something into the scriptures that isn't there).
And at this point religious scholars converge.
As I read long ago, a theologian (religious scholar) is naught more than a well trained ventriloquist who makes his god say what he wants him to say.
I usually dispense with such arguments by referring the conversant to the principle of circular reasoning.
Ex:
"Why do you believe in your scriptures?"
Ans: "Because they are the word of God (Alllah).
"How do you know they are the word of God (Allah)?"
Ans:" Because it says so in the scriptures."
Scriptures are the word of god because it says so in the scriptures are the word of god because it says so in the scriptures.
And about this time the veins stand out on the neck and forehead, the face flushes in anger, the temperature rises, and the limbs tremble.
And the comes the vehement and angry denial and rationalizations.
'Milk your camel, whack the donkey,
shag the goat and spank yer monkey...
Everybody sing: "cut off a head for Al Jazeera...."
From: 'Sheik Yer'mami', Winds of Jihad, 'My Allah is better...'
http://www.terrorists-suck.org/fight/winds_of_jihad.html
'Milk your camel, whack the donkey,
shag the goat and spank yer monkey...
Everybody sing: "cut off a head for Al Jazeera...."
From: 'Sheik Yer'mami', Winds of Jihad, 'My Allah is better...'
http://www.terrorists-suck.org/fight/winds_of_jihad.html
Terminator:
Loved it! Too bad you can't get it played on the radio - have you tried here in th US?
Dear Mr. Spencer
Good luck collecting that million dollars.
Canuck
ps. hold off buying that Lear jet for a bit... just to be prudent.