I have received thousands of variations of a hate email I received this morning, and that's why I put it up: regular readers of Jihad Watch will be familiar with all the arguments here also, as they have been made so many, many times. These arguments are so often made that it is clear that they pour forth every day from a multitude of places, to be scooped up by the credulous and crafty alike; that underscores the need for little samizdat sources like Jihad Watch to continue to do all we can to counter them.
I have interspersed responses, which will likewise contain nothing new to regular readers of Jihad Watch, below:
Study Islam before you attack it.
I have written 4 books about Islam and studied it for 24 years.
Jihad does not mean “Holy War”.
I have stated this many times in my books and on this site. But this fact means less than you want it to mean.
There are many forms of Jihad, and fighting is the least important type of Jihad.
Then why, for instance, does Al-Azhar endorse a manual of Shafi'i jurisprudence that devotes 10 pages to fighting and 1 page to the other types of jihad?
Also, fighting is only obligated on Muslims if the faith and community is under attack, which is not something that any one could criticize.
Except that jihadists interpret the faith and community being under attack as meaning just about anything.
Any believers of any other religion would do the same to protect their religion against any aggression.
No they wouldn't. Islam is the only religion that has a doctrine of warfare against unbelievers.
Terrorists use vague Jihad versus from the Quran to justify their actions; however, I have read the Quran and studied the religion for 5 years, and I know that killing innocent people is forbidden in Islam.
Indeed. But who is "innocent"? Osama doesn't think any American is, and there is no Islamic argument against him.
However, the terrorists are using Islam the same way the crusaders used Christianity to kill thousands of non-Christians in the name of God!
This is historically false. This fall I will have a book out about the Crusades. But even if it were true, it is meaningless: there are no Crusaders today. Are you implying that we should not resist today's global jihad because there were once Crusaders?
What is the difference between Al-Qaeda and the crusaders, or what is the difference between Timothy McVeigh and Osama bin Laden? Nothing!
Big differences. Even if McVeigh was a Christian, which is doubtful, he didn't and couldn't use Christian theology to justify his actions the way Osama uses Islamic theology.
In my opinion, you are as extreme as the terrorists. It’s websites like yours that give the US a negative image and undermine our sacrifice and efforts to spread freedom and “secular” democracy in the Muslim World.
Mm-hmm. Next time I behead someone, get back to me.
Meanwhile, while this fellow remonstrates with me for blackening the image of a peaceful religion, one of his coreligionists gets right to the point in another email:
I will see to it that pro-Nazi, Zionist, White supremacist, in short, right wing fascits like you pay.
It is a peculiar world when someone who is working to defend the equality of rights and dignity of all people can be called "pro-Nazi" and "Zionist" and threatened in the same breath, by someone who clearly doesn't see the irony.
OT
hadithher2:
Now that I "outed" you, you should change your screenname again and send me a message through Susan_b as to your new one.
Also, remember to frequently delete your temporary internet files.
CGW
thanks for concern CGW however by you outing me the same can be done again I guess by my style...its nothing to be ashamed of but if they want dirt they will have to dig very deep.
the name kinda fits my mood right now:-)
Hatemail, baitmail whatever...
Its good to see Robert Spencer expose these naive buffoons (or is it evil deliberate apologists?) for the crap they sprout. Some wiseguy once said 'rap is crap', maybe its time we made a 'rap song' detailing apologist litanies... it'll sure be a good sell....
/sarcasm off.
speaking of re-(cycled);
hope not to disparage any one here with this but why are'nt these tactics applied to islam,mooslooms and all who wish for our ruination?
CGW: Susan_b has my contact info if you have anything to add:-)
this fits into the not so far off topic if indeed it is off topic at all.
The story posted is not fictional by far and the events of abu-graib pale in comparison.What I would like to point out are they key words.
(1) ASSOCIATE = join in companionship or partnership
(2) ACCORDING = in conformity with; as stated by.
(3) TARGET = MARK TO SHOOT AT;: GOAL TO BE ACHIEVED;....MAKE A TARGET OF; ESTABLISH AS A GOAL.
http://www.sacbee.com/state_wire/story/7891625p-8830265c.html
Federal agents raid Hells Angels sites across the West
The Associated Press
Last Updated 5:27 p.m. PST Wednesday, December 3, 2003
SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - Federal agents raided Hells Angels motorcycle gang hangouts across the West Wednesday and made 38 arrests after a two-year undercover investigation into alleged violations of gun and drug laws.
All 38 people arrested were either members or(1) associates, of the Hells Angels,(2) according, to Patrick Berarducci, senior special agent for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in Los Angeles.
The San Francisco headquarters of the Hells Angelsgang ,was(4) targeted, and other search and arrest warrants were executed in Southern California, Arizona, Washington state, Nevada, and Alaska.
The Northern California warrants resulted in 16 or 17 arrests, said Marti McKee, a bureau spokeswoman in San Francisco. She declined to say what agents were looking for, saying the supporting documents were sealed by court order.
Targets in Northern California included 29 search warrants and 24 arrest warrants in locations that included Richmond, San Jose and Santa Cruz County.
"San Francisco police did the entry and secured the scene," she said of the Hells Angels raid. "Now that they've taken care of that, ATF agents are going in to search."
More information on the raids will be released "once we've determined the court documents have been unsealed," McKee said.
very industrious of these federal agents would'nt you agree?
and this from the war on drugs that if you win you lose the ol' catch 22 scenario.what you stop at the border pales in comparison to what is being manufactured throughout the cities and rural areas of America by the backyard mechanics....way to go feds....how ya doin' w/ them pharmecueticals any how?
The bottom line here is how can these agencies perpetuate such motion here against America's social problem instead of against America's foes.
Our youths that get caught up in this catch-22 are never afforded on opportunity to serve in the armed forces but 13% of the military is made up of aliens, non-citizens; what kind of QUAGMIRE is this?could the farmers in the carolinas and elsewhere grow something other than tabacco they cant grow any more?
"No man is good enough to govern another without the others consent... these United States Of America can never be destroyed from the forces outside its borders. If America falls, it will fall from within. Brought down by apathy. When good people do nothing, anarchy reigns."
Abraham Lincoln
Posted by: hadithher2 at February 12, 2005 08:03 AM
But wait...pro-nazi + zionist... isn't that a mason?
OT: On the feds slamming the Hells Angeles-how foolish. They may need them in the near future to help the country fight an Islamist invasion. I feel like I'm walking the streets of Byzantium...watching the last days of a great people who haven't caught on yet to the depth they've been penetrated, the ominousness and insidious depravity of their foe, and the vulnerability of their greatness. I'll have a Scotch and whiskey and a ham sandwich any day of the week with a Hells Angel before I live as a dhiminni.
"There are many forms of Jihad, and fighting is the least important type of Jihad."
Ahh, then violent "Jihad" DOES exist and it's not just a "small" "minority."
"Adherents of militant Islam account for some 15-20 percent of the Muslim world..."
www.meforum.org/article/168
I'm just a commentator on many sites but two in particular and I get hate mail. They never leave their nicks so I can catch them online,either and have no idea of why they wrote me in the first place. You might have an blog and get hate mail but I'm just a commenter and I also get hate mail. Welcome to the club.
Cindy
But every enlightened person knows Islam is a religion of peace and these poor underprivileged terrorists are just fighting back to preserve their tolerant, wonderful culture against nazis like you. BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH,
HELP, someone with a long beard is trying to saw my head off with a scimitar!
When I confronted Islamic scripture and its connection to terrorism I was also charged with being co-equal to the Islamic terrorists. This was a particularly ridiculous equivocation at the time because the terrorists were beheading captives on video tape. The fact that I was not beheading people didn't seem to make a difference to my critics.
And presisely WHERE do these people think " And when the sacred months are over, slay the infidels everywhere they are found" come from?
Well, let's see, maybe--Buddhism? The US Constitution? The Torah? Snoop? Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart's 'Abduction from the Seraglio'? Gilbert and Sullivan? Pietown? Goethe? The Third Reich??? Gondwanaland, maybe???
Guess who needs to study Islam?
p.s.--MAYBE it's because Mr. Spencer hasn't studied about the 'REAL' Islam! Oh, I've got it,we just need to learn all about the 'REAL' Islam!!! That's it! Jihadwatch isn't covering the 'REAL' Islam!!!! (Right...).
hadithher2:
You stated "Our youths that get caught up in this catch-22 are never afforded on opportunity to serve in the armed forces but 13% of the military is made up of aliens, non-citizens; what kind of QUAGMIRE is this?."
I don't know where you got your figures, but they are incorrect.
According to the Department of Defense, as of 2002, the U.S. military had a little more than 60,000 immigrants serving. Almost 5% of enlisted personnel are immigrants, not 13%. There is nothing unusual about this in the history of the armed forces, since legal immigrants (without being naturalized) are able to enlist for most enlisted jobs.
Also, a criminal past involving drugs is not an automatic exclusion to enlistment. Although a waiver is required, it can be done. I personally know two marines that had "youthful indiscretions" that were able to enlist. Of course any criminal history gives a chance of slim to none to becoming a commissioned officer.
Behead me if I'm wrong here but won't all this hate-mail Spencer receives send him into a fit of rage that'll make him shoot and stab to death a fat Dutchman riding a bicycle on a sunny day in downtown Amsterdam? Won't all these accusations turn Spencer into a man who won't be able to control himslef from throwing acid in the face of a teenage girl? Won't these hate letters make Spencer cut off the clitorises of young girls? Afterall, Spencer is only Human.
One can only push a man so far.
Oh, I forgot. Spencer isn't a Moslem.
And me? Well, the only times I go psychotically violent is during isolated incidents, so what's the worry? Please tell the judge for me. Or maybe recommend a better lawyer. My defence isn't holding up that well right now in Peoria.
Son of Walker,
You are one funny, funny son of a gun!
M
'Study Islam before you attack it'- I did:
Bali, Beslan, 9/11, four wars on Israel, ongoing 'intifadah', hijack. carbombs, Busbombs, Cafe-bombs, Pizzeria-bombs, Van Gogh, Ali Hirsi, Pym Fortuyn, Salman Rushie, kidnappings, beheadings, attacks on churches, Darfour, Iran, OBL, Kashmir, Sudan, Somalia, Armious family in New Jersey, Arafat, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria... would that get me a degree with 'my man' Omid?
I have studied enough. Now I want to fight!
Don Miguel- I'll stand corrected for now, my logistics have suffered a recent setback. The 13% I said was written in an article and could have been reserved for the hispanic number.
As of Nov. 7, 36,177 members of the Armed Forces are non-citizens- making up about 5 percent of active duty members - and 12,132members of the Selected Reserve. More than 32 percent of allnon-citizens that are serving in the military are Hispanics.
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you mention small indiscretions can be waivered, wonder when that was?in my day da judge asked my recruiter at sentencing if the Navy would still take me where upon he said most certainly we'll run another waiver, mind you i had no diploma or ged.my many friends i left at that time who thought i was nuts are now WISHING that maybe they should have served.
5% of anything is a lot in my book although i don't wholly condemn this policy.
How could we reform our culture and society?
hadithher2:
Sorry to stay off topic, but:
"you mention small indiscretions can be waivered, wonder when that was?in my day da judge asked my recruiter at sentencing if the Navy would still take me where upon he said most certainly we'll run another waiver, mind you i had no diploma or ged. ... 5% of anything is a lot in my book although i don't wholly condemn this policy."
When it was is now. All requirements for enlistment and the waiver rules can be found on the net. It's been years since an option before a judge was jail time or enlistment! Without a H.S. diploma you have about a 1% chance of enlisting. Even a GED is rarely good enough.
I don't see what there could possibly be to condemn about the policy of allowing legal non-citizen immigrants to enlist. These people that enlist are generally much more patriotic and hard-working than the average American and have historically acquitted themselves very well in battle (the percentage of non-citizens that have received the Medal of Honor exceeds their percentage within the military). I don't know for a fact, but I bet they also have a much better awareness of the danger to the U.S. from the jihadists than the average American!
It is not Robert Spencer's writing at this site that appears to infuriate the "faithful." There is irony in it but never hate. Sarcasm abounds in the Comments section as does scorn (for lies and dissimulation) and sometimes emotion gets the better of a calm and controlled commentator--for instance when heads are sawed off with accompanying ululations in a proudly exhibited videotape. Nevertheless, Robert Spencer gets most of the flak, because besides being Numero Uno, he is accessible for e-mails.
What the "faithful" call hate at this site is actually aversion, but most of all exposure of cunning deception. Then again, we are not submitting, we are standing up to them. They can't stand that. They think themselves superior to all others (doesn't their ideology tell them that?), and we won't agree with that.
If what appear at this website makes them squeal, then it's doing what it is intended to do. Perhaps when their squeals get loud enough, they'll wake up the sleepwalking populace.
The Comments section adds fire to what is already a spicy dish being served up to one and all. The jihadists and their supporters, camp-followers, cheeleaders, fellow-travelers, et al, best be careful, not only that they get burned when they bite into this tasty dish, but who knows, some days it might be pork into which they're trying to sink their teeth.
I don't see what there could possibly be to condemn about the policy of allowing legal non-citizen immigrants to enlist. These people that enlist are generally much more patriotic and hard-working than the average American and have historically acquitted themselves very well in battle (the percentage of non-citizens that have received the Medal of Honor exceeds their percentage within the military). I don't know for a fact, but I bet they also have a much better awareness of the danger to the U.S. from the jihadists than the average American!
Posted by: Don Miguel at February 12, 2005 07:40 PM
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one of my most favorite addages goes like this:"if i have to explain you would'nt understand",i will break it down for you however,
you state without a diploma you have about 1% chance of enlisting and the days of da judge sending people to servitude our over....how sad....those FEW who are passed over with no diploma become those many who sit in doorway stoops all day long knowing not resonsibility...cant get a job.....no diploma....need money....oh yeah baby.....what to do?....i know do you? these who do not know are taught these small things in the military....i know?
to trump over Americans by requirement stanards is just not right......our youth of today run amock of respect....it is my opinion the the youth has suffered gravely by these policies...if we had another 5% of doorstops outta the streets and in the military the ol' pay it forward program comes into effect.....younger kids would emulate those who serve as i did at one time, is there another way outta da streets.....not now!
in my long time tenure as a vet i have been emulated at interviews,meetings,workshops,grocer's and have fortunatley never been un-employed,i do the same thing now i did then.
Conscription wont be needed if you open the floodgates...a lot of those kids need this.
"Nothing will sustain you more potently than the power to recognize in your humdrum routine,as perhaps it may be thought,the true poetry of life".Sir William Osler
hadithher2:
This is my last post on this since it is not pertinent to this thread. If you can't get a H.S. diploma you don't deserve to be in the military. The military isn't a welfare program for people too lazy or too stupid to get a basic education. If you don't have the discipline to ensure that you have a minimal education you will not make it in the military. The military doesn't want you and those in the military don't want to serve with you.
As we have had so many warnings of the aggression that awaits those who either as apostates or as kaffurs dare criticise islam, we should not let the murders of many brave people, such as the Armonious family, deter us from our aims nor however pay scant attention to the possibility of physical attack from islamofascism.
For kaffurs such as ourselves, even the slighest questioning of the Koran is obviously a blasphemy, punishable by beatings. And the quoting of SATANIC VERSES, a capital offence.
Be careful and be aware.
The Crusades? I'm sick of Muslims going on and on and on about this.
If you say that Islam is stuck in the Middle Ages, they complain of Islamophobia. Then what do the Muslims always talk about? THE CRUSADES!
Islam initially made expansionist forays into Europe (Spain, Portugal and Sicily) long before the First Crusade. In effect the Crusades were an act of self defence to weaken a power that had already attacked Europe. And why don't they talk about the career of Caliph al-Hakim, and his vicious persecution of the Christians and Jews in the Holy Land. It was he that first prompted Pope Sergius IV to talk about sending an armed force to the Middle East.
Muslims lie and lie and lie. They know nothing of history. They are completely ignorant about everything and yet they are filled with their own self importance.
Dear Reader,
Regard Muslim complaints about the Crusades.
This is like me burning your house down - then you retaliating by burning my house down. And afterwards, me telling everybody that you're a lunatic arsonist!
...................................
PERPETUAL BLAME + PERPETUAL HATE + PERPETUAL FALSEHOOD = ISLAM
Cindy,
Do NOT use your email as a reference to log into these sites. Do NOT. Use a different email (using either no or false information in the info blanks), then cancel it once registration has been achieved, and if possible ensure the information is non-retrievable. Never check it again, never log into that email account. For posting, ensure you are on either a) a public computer (which, again, you should NOT use for checking your actual email account) or b) behind a firewall and preferably also a router.
A friend of mine comments on these sites. One day he started getting hang-up phonecalls while he was posting on the site. Perhaps - probably even - a coincidence. Maybe not.
Trust no one, nothing. For the people you argue with think "Allah knows best", and even the most moderate would sooner deal with you than what they think is a god.
Geoff
Timothy McVeigh most certainly was a Christian, and according to commonly thought church doctrine, he IS in Heaven, right now. Perhaps he is singing in a choir with those 38 babies that he murdereded in the Murrah day care.
Really, Mr. Spencer. You needn't make this site into a commercial for Churchianity. You are correct when you state that the Crusades have nothing in common with the current, Koran-mandated Jihad. But McVeigh was a Christian. Not exactly their poster boy, but a Christain nonetheless.
And with a minimal amount of effort, this can be validated by the fact that McVeigh requested--and RECEIVED--Last Rites.
Just visit this Catholic website:
http://www.catholicherald.com/cns/lastrites.htm
for the sad truth.
Keith,
With just a bit more digging, you could have discovered that MacVeigh did not identify himself as a Christian at the time of the bombings. And anyway, you did not address -- and cannot address -- my main point, which was that "even if McVeigh was a Christian, which is doubtful, he didn't and couldn't use Christian theology to justify his actions the way Osama uses Islamic theology."
If you can find a justification in Christian theology for the OKC bombing, go ahead. Happy hunting.
Cordially
Robert Spencer
Well, Tim McVeigh faced with death went ahead and agreed to a jailhouse preacher performing last rites means nothing. This doesn't mean he was a Christian, what else was he to do? No muslim cleric offered last rites. No Buddist came in and offered anything. This Catholic preacher is what was available and McVeigh said , yeah ok.
McVeigh was a lost loser, out of the military looking for meaning and purpose. He stumbles onto a Southern US militia group with gripes and they carry out an attack on the Murray Bldg on the anniversary of the Janet reno Bill Clinton Waco TX Branch Dividian attack. This was retaliation for that, thats all it was.
McVeigh didn't do this to please God. Nothing at all to do with religion. He did it out of hate for the US government and had no compassion for the innocent victims. Why not do this at 3:00 AM when the building was empty? Why kill all those innocent people? He deserved the lethal injection.