Australia: Catholics back Muslim claims against evangelical Christians

"..the official policy of the universal Catholic Church' which urges [Catholics] to 'acknowledge, preserve, and encourage the spiritual and moral truths found among [Muslims], also their social life and culture'"....

Does the Vicar mean the moral truth that all Catholics are infidel scum worthy of death?

Or the spiritual truth that denies the deity of Christ?

Or the social life that enslaves and beats wives?

Or the culture that permits "honor killings?"

Yet more willfull ignorance from the Catholic Chruch, which has a long and sordid history of cozying up to all things anti-Semitic.

The Catholic Church is getting even with the Evangelicals for taking people away from it.

In "respecting" a religion that denies Jesus' divinity, it's abundantly clear that the Catholic Church no longer serves Christ or His sheep.

The unholy trinity
Nazism/Catholicism/Islam

I agree with Michele on this one. Evangelicals are taking away converts from the R.C. Church and that resentment expresses itself in the form of "solidaity" with Muslims as pertains to this case.

They may also be a little jealous of the fact that Evangelicals actively, successfully and enthusiastically convert Mnuslims to Christianity; something The Church seems to exchew as being sordid or somehow underhanded.

Then there's their ecumenical outreach with the Islamic community which works as follows: You invite the good imam to church where he gives a glowing lecture on Islam's perfection. The next week you go the mosque and the same imam gets up in the minbar and gives a glowing lecture on Islam's perfection.

This kind of "dialogue" is tantamount to buying a chocolate bar, paying with a twenty and then accepting change for a five.

The church now prefers to discuss "social issues" instead of theology. In its efforts to remain hip and relevant it has only marginalised itself. You'd think they'd at least be swift enough to insist that Saudi Arabia "tolerate" at least one Catholic prayer chapel......you know even a tiny two-seater model!!

"The church now prefers to discuss 'social issues' instead of theology." That is absolutely on the mark. I have had occasion recently to read in detail material assigned to those preparing to become deacons in the Catholic Church. What I read, to my disbelief, was scarcely distinguishable from the preparation offered those training to become meddling social workers, with emphasis on "diversity" and on the collective. A New Church for a New World.

It was a mistake to trade in high solemnity for that mess of pottage, such as guitars in churches. Belief requires a little mystery (the Latin Mass), or a little entertainment (gospel music), or ideally a bit of both. It requires speakers with gravity in their voices (female preachers, unless they sound like Tallulah Bankhead, so far don't cut the mustard). No wonder the flocks are straying. Baa, baa, shepherds -- haven't you any pull? You won't have it by emulating Johnny Carson, or his epigones.

For a language that commands belief, even from the unbeliever, the good old King James, with the cadences that stick, still can't be beat.

Exactly Hugh!

Gee, I remember listening to a rep from Developement and Peace give a lecture at Sunday mass a few years back. She stopped just short of lining us up in neat rows and making us chant "Ho, Ho, Ho-chi-Minh"! Some loopy "activist" who, I'm sure, couldn't recite a single line of the Nicean Creed.....even for the sake of a complimentary copie of Das Kapital

Guess the good curé was too lazy to come up with a sermon.

Montréal has many many churches. With such a vast choice I often play "tourist" when deciding on which service to attend. In fact, I've now visited dozens of Catholic houses of worship. There is always one constant; the more traditional parishes ALWAYS have the largest congregations

A statement from the Archdiocese's Ecumenical and Interfaith Commission:

"We wished to show our respect in the face of possible vilification, in accordance with 'with the official policy of the universal Catholic Church' which urges [Catholics] to 'acknowledge, preserve, and encourage the spiritual and moral truths found among [Muslims], also their social life and culture'"....

Perhaps a reading of the book by Father Menezes, who spent decades ministering to the poor in India, and who is not unsympathetic to the Muslim plight, but uncompromising in reporting on what Islam inculcates in its Believers, would do the members of the Archdiocese's Ecumenical and Interfaith Commission some good.

They can't possibly be made even more misinformed and misguided than they are now.

Very bad declarations, the truth, but I think that comparing nazism, islam with catholicism is false.

I think Michelle's "revenge" analysis has a large chunk of truth to it. Years ago, in Maryland, the conservative Presbyterian church in which my younger son was baptized had a pastor and lots of members who were originally RC. The number of Evangelical Hispanic-heritage people in the USA (and even south of the border) is also large and growing (far more than Hispanic Islam).

However, I think another aspect of an RC bishop's sympathy for Islam is that both Roman Catholicism and Islam involve a kind of political authoritarianism; whereas the presbyterial and congregational church polities dominant in Evangelicalism tend to intuitively understand the democratic process (and, in the history of Britain and America, even nurtured it). A patriarch and a grand mufti can negotiate deals; while when someone like Pat Robertson arises, hierarchs, to their dismay, find there's a large swath of the Evangelical world that would have their supposed "spokesman" flogged out of town at the cart's tail for a Quaker. That is, you can get Evangelicals to agree on the deity of Jesus Christ, the atoning chracter of his death, and his resurrection, but not on much else.

The organizational authoritarianism of Roman Catholicism may be why so many RC intellectuals gravitated towards fascism in the early 20th century, and towards Marxism in the latter part of the century (the phenomenon Hugh mentions).

I'm so disgusted at these ignorant fools. They don't have a clue. Not one. Kissing up to Islam's butt like that. No wonder they're losing their flock.

Yes, definitely jealousy towards evangelical Christians is a big factor in this, as Michelle suggests. A while back in our local paper they had a big article on the successes of the evangelical church, particularly in attracting the young. Petty jealousy, and foolish naivety.

The Catholics and Anglicans are often meddling in leftie issues. They're the ones decrying our tough illegal immigration policy, demanding we throw open the doors. They're the ones cosying up to loonie leftie politicians. And they wonder why mass attendance has fallen and continues to fall? DUH!!!

What wrong with villifying the vile?

You mean I can't fly to Sydney and say:
"Mohammad was a diseased pedophile who stole the core of his Koran, lock, stock, and barrel, from the earlier writings of the Jews and Christians and pagans, boldly encouraged deceit and slavery in his own 'epileptic revelations', and then declared an endless war against all on Earth who would not submit to his megalomaniacal and nihilistic vision of a Permanent Dark Ages"?

Gee.... there go my vacation plans.

What kind of p.c. laws are there in Australia?

What kind of p.c. people?

I thought the guys and "sheilah" 's of Oz were supposed to be ballsy and testy and raunchy.

Sounds more like they've turned into a road show cast of some transvestite caberet, reduced to lashing each other with limp feather boas.

Say it ain't so, mate!

Or should I say Priscilla?

I am not suprised about the Catholic Church's reaction. After seeing a picture of Pope John-Paul kissing the koran (www.bible.ca/ catholic-flip-flops.htm),it made my stomach turn. As an ex-Catholic I will never give heed to that church again.

peter kenny: probably come as a complete surprise to you but islam is pure absolute and utter pagan. The islamic god is allah a god, it seems, of ignorance, death and destruction. The Christian God is the Father of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob and the Father of Jesus Christ our Saviour!islam repudiates utterly the Son of God-Jesus. The Church,Catch the Fire Ministries, you are against is a Christian Church, possibly more Christ centred than your "church?". The bible in both the New and Old Testaments tell us followers of the Eternal to shun pagans and their works.The Eternal through His Word is quite insistant actually that we keep away from anti-Christ pagans and their ways.How you, if you pray? are going to explain your actions to your God is beyond me. Saddened, numbat

Well I see that you think that catholicism is so authoritarian than islam, I don´t want to speak of religion because it isn´t the place but I am going to speak:
In first place, Jesus say to Peter: You are Peter, and with this stone I build my church, not my 30 thousand churches like the protestants, it´s very strange that Jesus wanted to wait 1500 years to say the truth about the miserable Catholic Church.
In second place an attidude about a bishop isn´t the norm, because if we see this, we can speak about the father of protestantism Luther, we was anti-semitical and never speaks about islam in his age, for example in the siege of Vienna in 1529, he was very dhirmi, but we see that the Pope of the miserable church defending the christendom against their enemies. I have to remember that the unique infallible in the Church is the Pope and only in faith and morals.
In third place protestantism only have spoken about islam now, for several centuries ago catholicism was their nightmare, they have criticized many times the crusades and other things but now they want that the catholic church made this another time.
In fourth time I never have seen pages in protestantism respect the Nation of Islam and their conversions, they are one million and very anti-semitical.
In fifth time I have read many times like Bush say that islam is peace, he says that are good doctrine in the Koran and supports very islamic countries that are producing terrorism like Egypt, Jordan , Saudi Arabia and Pakistan and I see critics to him, NO,NO,NO and I repeat NO, I don´t see that in any place say that Bush is dhirmi, because with your opinions, of course Bush is dhirmi. US has a lot of responsability for their support to Saudi Arabia.
In sixth place we see in CNN, like speaks about so well, such anuncies about Middle East, they do news and images about the hajj, and I read that CNN is dhirmi.
In seventh place Episcopal and Anglican Churches are in many places more anti-semitical that other churches and I don´t see nothing.
And we can see now what have said and made US in the last years:
Indonesia: Suharto was a protected dictatorship by US, for being against communism, thanks to your support, many chinese were killed, someone communist but someone not, but US didn´t say nothing. Now, there aren´t freedom religion but US didn´t say nothing
Pakistan: The loved country, more than India or others, place of islamic fundamentalism, with 150 million of muslims, and US support it, where are the freedom religion? many catholics die there for their faith, and remembered by bishops and popes but US doesn´t say anything.
Egypt: The persecution of copts and catholics is great, but for Clinton and Bush, is a moderated country, converts are arrested, and US don´t say anything. In addition for americans, Egypt is moderate.
Saudi Arabia: It´s more gratious, the fatherland of wahabbism bought Europe, it´s truth, but too US, the charity NGO with links with terrorism, the catholic church have many faithful there but there aren´t churches thanks to US, why this country don´t do a church and his embasy? why? because US IS DHIRMI.
And Morocco: My neighbour country were ocuppy a illegal territory Western Sahara but has the support of US and France, there are islamism and Mohamed VI is a pope for muslims, wants Ceuta and Melilla spanish cities, and dominate all the mosques for the anexion to Morocco, there aren´t freedom religion, there are churches but only for foreigners, what say US, nothing, many converts to protestantism but been "reconverted" by agents of the muslim ministry of Morocco, has said US something? not.
US is so dhirmi than the church, yes it is, of course, but americans think that they aren´t, why? I don´t know.
I am catholic and I love US where I haven´t visited never and I know that catholic church is converting muslims around the world, including in US, they are few? yes, but where are the faith, where are the coherent catholics, there are but few.
Respect protestantism I respected the american evangelism but only have faith in their anti-catholicism, other more important things like abotion, euthanasia and other things are importants, they refuse the Luther´s teachings about anticonception and abortion and well we have the results, Europe is dying and US is begun to die.

Too many of you folks are equating Roman Catholicism with the leftie, limp wristed bishops of Post Vatican II. They are part and parcel with other "elites" of our West such as the NYTimes and media buddies, the judiciary, and Hollyweird. St. John Chrysostom himself said that the paving stones of Hell were the skulls of bishops. Don't equate the Church with the bishops, some of whom are the false shepherds Jeremiah warned of. The place to look for the Roman Catholic Church is in the pews and the simple faith of the humble priest or layman not the elites with their mealy mouthed apologies to Islam and reluctance to stand for the Faith.