Egyptian Christians protest at "kidnapping"

Hmmm.

Seems to me to perfectly fit in with the moslem attitude of treating 'women as property'. Kidnap, forcibly convert and forcibly get her to bear moslem kids...pretty, no? NOT!

This trend is rather old.Dating back to the times when alla's apostle described women as fair booty for loot and pillage. During the bloody subcontinental partition (into India and Pak) stories circulate of legions of Hindu and sikh Women whose menfolk were killed and who were converted to islam and ....you know what follows....

Wonder if there're cases of men being kidnapped and converted forcibly? Maybe they'd rather just have the men die under false blashphemy charges (like in pakistan).

Bah, this post is kinda getting depressing already....

Without sounding too sarcastic - doesn't the Koran say something about there being no compulsion in religious conversion? But then again, we are talking about Islam and cults don't have to be consistent.

Specifically, the Quran says:

Q 2:256 There is no compulsion in religion, for the truth has been made manifest from the false.

Unfortunately, this can also in my view have a double meaning. The link, of course, is the word "for". One 'cannot' be compulsed FOR the truth is manifest.

So taken another way, no one could be forced to be muslim because ('for'), after all, who needs to be forced to accept truth? Only the extremely obstinate and the enemies of Allah (liars, of course) would refuse to accept this 'truth'. So how can one say they're being forced? and so on. Because this 'truth' is 'manifest' (BECAUSE of it), it couldn't be forced - it would simply need to be accepted. Double-think was invented long before Orwell.

And what, pray tell, for those who consistently refuse to accept this 'truth'? Well, for them, there is Sura 9, of course, which reads more or less as:

'Smite the unbeliever.'

In any event, I have a reference on hand of a muslim site that insists that Q 2:256 is abrogated ('repudiated' or 'overwritten') by Q 9:5 and the like.

Geoff

The First International Coptic Symposium

Copts are not only persecuted but are also terrorised in all aspects of life. When the State cancels from the history books in schools 7 centuries of Coptic history is that not religious terrorism?

When Sheikh Shaarawy insults Jesus Christ and Christians on state television and is , almost immediately, decorated by the President with the highest honour isn`t that despicable from the religious standpoint? When Coptic students are forced to study the Koran in schools, but not their own religion, is that not religious persecution and terrorism?
When Moslem students refuse to shake hands with their Coptic fellow students, stating that they cannot greet infidels, is that not religious persecution and terrorism?
When Government institutions and private companies refuse to employ Copts and some of them even announce in the press that Copts should abstain from applying is that not a blunt and humiliating persecution? When priests and monks are killed on the streets for no reason is that not religious terrorism and persecution?
When minor Coptic girls are subjected to humiliation, kidnapping and rape and forced to the Islamic religion is that not undeniably persecution and creating terror in the minds of such young girls?
When Copts, praying in Church on Sunday are killed by Moslem fanatics, (Abou-Korkas) is this not a flagrant religious persecution and terrorism? Must Coptic worshippers be forced to go to Church in fear and with their gun?
Is the attacking of churches, monasteries and houses for handicapped children by the Army not an awful and inhuman terror for such peaceful people? Is that not an insult to a civilised country?
Is not all of the above a massive insult to a supposedly civilised country in the 21st century?

The Coptic cause is undeniably important to each one of us - SO LET US LOOK AT THE HISTORY and in doing so briefly we can identify 5 distinct phases:

PHASE 1 - lasting from the arrival of St Mark in Alexandria in the 1st century AD until the end of an extremely difficult and painful era during which the Copts faced brutal persecution. During this period the Copts willingly offered their souls in defence of their faith and this dreadful era lasted for almost 300 years.

PHASE 2 - a further 300 years during which Egypt was fully Coptic and, apart from the Roman occupation, this period was probably the best time in the history of the Copts.

PHASE 3 - lasted from 640 AD to the beginning of the 20th century. During this long epoch the Copts enjoyed highs and endured lows in a way similar to many minorities worldwide.

PHASE 4 - with the flourishing of the Egyptian National Movement from 1919 the Copts were extremely patriotic and were accordingly rewarded with a complete integration in the national political and public fabric. A wonderful era but one which lasted for only 30 years or so.

PHASE 5 - from 1952 the Copts started to face a new and uncomfortable reality with the increase of the Moslem Brothers culture in all layers of life. This reality continued to worsen and was mainly driven by two factors:

· the overall deterioration in all of the standards, sectors and segments of the Egyptian society, and

· the most detrimental and pervasive impact of the Petrodollar which allowed the Saudis to invade the Egyptian mind and in parallel spread their interpretation of Islam to all countries thus invading and purchasing minds and consciences to their evil Wahabite understandings.

Now let us have a detailed look at the last 50 years or so and here I give to you, from my perspective, some examples of how the Egyptian Copts were robbed of their rights and degraded and marginalized to become third class citizens.

Nationally and internationally it is known that the Soldiers` Revolution of 1952 took place with the support from The Moslem Brothers. Indeed from the first day they aimed at persecuting the Copts in accordance with their own Islamic principles.

Two weeks after the start of the revolution my friend and business customer - Pilot Captain Hasan Ezzat - advised me to emigrate because of the Islamic and fundamentalist character of the revolution. He believed that the plan was clearly aimed at persecuting and humiliating the Copts.

In his book "On the road to Liberty" which was published only 2 weeks after the start of the revolution he confessed participating with Anwar Sadat in the killing of Amin Othman and Major Selim Zaki.

In 1955 Ali Pasha el Shamsy warned of the forthcoming persecution of the Copts and feared that they would be banned from senior positions - even though he defined the Copts as "the salt and fertiliser of the Egyptian soil". His warnings were ignored and his predictions materialised. Even now I`m not sure that the Government are aware that they effectively destroyed Egypt and dragged it into the deep pit of ill-repute where we are now.

Even Prince Talal bin Abdel-Aziz and Mr Khaled al Faisal warned strongly against driving the Christians from the Middle East with the consequent "Brain Drain" and exodus of talent and commitment. This appears to have been another warning in vain.

The summit of Islamic nations convened in Jeddah in 1955 and decided for the "cleansing"of the Middle East of its Christian population. 15 to 20% of the Copts emigrated as a result of the ensuing persecution, humiliation and maltreatment and the Lebanese Christians diminished from 55% to 25% of the population.

During this summit Anwar Sadat,representing Egypt with, I think, Hossain El Shafeiy (both members of the Revolution Board), declared a governmental 40 years plan to force educated Copts to emigrate, to Islamize most of the remaining Copts and transform the rest into working in the most menial of jobs.

This plan was carried out literally and mainly successfully - and using the ploy of appointing a Copt as the First " Minister of

Emigration" - "Albert Salama".

Early 1970 Sadat, now President, released Moslem Brothers from jail and appointed them in leading positions within the army, secret service, state, judiciary, police etc. He was rewarded by them in their traditional way, THEY MURDERED HIM.

When I requested from my friend, the late Mr Raouf Shalaby, who was close to the Presidential Palace, about the reason for the organized humiliation of the Copts he said that President Mubarak was forced to maintain a balance between the Copts and the Moslem Brothers.

So - can we consider that the poor, peaceful and afflicted Copts have power that needs to be counter-balanced?

I think not. This form of "justification" is, in my opinion, the reason behind the current desolation of Egypt.

The Soldiers` Revolution placed their trusted men in all leading positions. Most suffered from "split- personalities" having been "police" and "criminals" at the same time -- witness their accounts in foreign banks where there is up to 200 billion Dollars in the names of public sector employees and people of high position.

Egypt is now so used to "begging" from the Gulf Arabs and international credit organizations and receiving alms instead of encouraging the new generations to build their own country with their own efforts and with their own productivity.

Egypt has been destroyed by the Egyptian Wahabite media which has been "brain washing" for the last 25 years towards the destructive Wahabite Islam from which Saudi Arabia currently suffers and which is exported throughout the entire Arabic and Islamic world - and indeed all over the world.

And let us never forget that the heinous crime of 9/11 was planned and perpetrated by a group of 19 terrorists of which 15 were from the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia - the home of Wahabite teachings.

The courageous Egyptian Army, partly financed by Coptic tax payers, succeeded in destroying walls of monasteries and churches. The latest one this year was the battle of Patmos!.
This battle is known to all human rights organisations and we must not allow the Turkish example of Aggie Sophia to be progressively repeated.

The Government builds mosques with money partially taken from Coptic tax payers. At the same time they humiliate us by applying a false justification for forcing us to seek permission to build ,or even repair our Churches. They refer to the Hamayoni Law of 1856 (Ottoman Empire!!!) which has, of course, been legally invalidated by the 1934 and 2 1972 Constitutions of Egypt(The Father of all Laws) which proclaimed equality for all Egyptians in several basic rights - including religion.

So our tax payers money is used to build mosques but we are not allowed to use our own money to build Churches!!
The peaceful Copts did not go to Addis Ababa or other places where the life of the President was threatened. But this peaceful attitude was not appreciated and was even punished by more marginalisation and persecution in an of their Christian attitude. (see the Manifesto on the table)

The Moslem Brothers want to rule Egypt through Mollahs, Ayatollahs, Rouhollas, Servants and Hizbolla. Egypt is therefore in danger of heading rapidly towards a "Taliban" regime with all of its devastating strictures and structures.

Coptic girls are endangered by Islamisation - with the blessing of governmental organisations. This demonstrates the current moral laxity.

It is not pleasant to recount stories of kidnap, rape and other humiliations - but it is true and as an example I refer to Case 104 which is on the table for you to read.

Egypt is dancing to the tune of the easy Petrodollar in the Wahabizm purse and has become a country mocked by others for its lack of national strength and pride.

The future of Copts in Egypt is sad and dark since they are abused openly and publicly because of their peaceful attitudes.

Poor is Egypt and poor are the Egyptian Copts - but still proud believers in their God, their religion and their rights.

Christians are free to convert to Islam while Muslims cannot convert to Christianity. Muslim men can marry Coptic women but Coptic men cannot marry Muslim women without converting.

Now if we had similar laws in the West - that would make a real difference.

As Q2:256 says there is no compulsion in religion. It only speaks to those who are already muslims about doing the robot prayers,washing,movements etc. not about the non believers converting.