On this the holiest of days for Roman Catholic, Eastern Catholic, and Protestant Christians comes an article on the necessity of spreading Islam in the West. "Countering Islamophobia: The Urgency of Da`wah in the West," from IslamOnline, with thanks to the Norwegian Kafir:
USA:"A girl like you should take off this burqa and start getting an education," a middle-aged white woman told a 17-year-old Muslim girl at the dressing room of a respected health club. The Muslim girl was shocked by these hostile comments, but chose not to reply. Later, she reported the harassment incident to the club's manager. The manager apologized and assured her that this behavior is against their policy, and if it was repeated, he would take an action against the aggressor. Ironically, this Muslim girl is a national merit scholar who started her college education at one of the well-known universities at age sixteen.In the middle of a friendly conversation, a receptionist at a medical clinic told a young Muslim mother who came to see a doctor for her baby, "You don't know how to drive."...
Good gravy! Women encouraging women to get an education and learn to drive! Will the harrassment never end? (Actually, I've been told "You don't know how to drive" more than once, and several times while I was actually in the act of driving. I have yet to file harassment charges...)
Anti-Muslim Hate: Why Da`wah Is Our Top PrioritySince September 11, the damage of planned media campaigns against Islam and Muslims has been increasing exponentially with time. "Hateful, negative rhetoric regarding Muslims is on the increase both in tone and frequency. It has almost become socially acceptable to engage in bigoted and racist speech about Muslims. More frightening is the reality that the hateful thoughts and speech can turn into hateful, even violent action, which can ruin an innocent person's life", Karen J. Dabdoub-the director of the Cincinnati office of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), Ohio, USA-wrote in The Enquirer.
I might have known that CAIR was mixed up in this somewhere. This is the group, of course, that has labeled telling the truth about Muhammad an act of bigotry and hatred.
Islamophobes are aggressively organizing propaganda that portrays Islam as a foreign religion that came with the backward, violent Arabs, who oppress women and deny them their rights of education, driving, working, or even leaving their homes.
Land sakes, where could these wicked Islamophobes have gotten these ideas? Hmmm, let's see. Maybe from here and here and here and here. And as for "even leaving their homes," there's this: "The husband may forbid his wife to leave the home" ('Umdat al-Salik, m10.4). I know: which are you going to believe: the Islamic whitewashers, or story after story coming out of the Islamic world? "Me, or your lying eyes?"
But of course, this is all the fault of "bigots":
This completely distorted image is ingrained in the minds of the majority of the American public as a result of organized efforts by bigoted figures. Daniel Pipes, a critic of "Islamism," has proposed the creation of a new "Anti-Islamist Institute" (AII), designed to expose legal political activities of "Islamists," according to Jim Lobe of the Inter Press Service News Agency (IPS).The draft of a grant proposal by Pipes' Middle East Forum (MEF), obtained by IPS, reads, "In the long term... the legal activities of Islamists pose as much or even a greater set of challenges than the illegal ones."
"Pipes is also working with Stephen Schwartz on a new 'Center for Islamic Pluralism' (CIP) whose aims are to 'promote moderate Islam in the U.S. and globally'" and to oppose the influence of extremists," Lobe writes.
Yet Schwartz haughtily refuses to explain how he proposes to counter the extremists. You can read my most unpleasant and unfortunate exchange with him here; in it, he uses the same reply-by-smear tactics that groups like CAIR, which he has fought indefatigably, employ with such skill. And here is my analysis of his recent downplaying of the evils of the dhimma.
Still, despite the fact that Schwartz seems to share their hostility to those who dare to explore and expose the roots of jihadist terror, IslamOnline is firmly in the opposition camp:
"The 'extremists,' according to the CIP proposal, are mainly represented by ... an array of organisations consisting of CAIR, the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), the North American Islamic Trust (NAIT), the Muslim Students' Association of the U.S. and Canada (MSA), the Muslim Public Affairs Council (MPAC), as well as 'secular' groups, including the Arab-American Institute (AAI) and the American Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee (ADC)," he adds.Muslim civil rights organizations, such as CAIR, are working day and night to counteract the effects of such campaigns. But they are limited in number and resources compared to Islamophobes. The American people are victims of the biased and racist media propaganda. Ordinary American citizens do not have the time or motivation to filter the information fed to them through media outlets.
Unless, of course, they read Jihad Watch.
Leaving this destructive tide unchallenged could lead to serious consequences: For instance, some Muslims-especially the young-will be forced or tempted to deviate from the authentic teachings of Islam in order to be called liberal or progressive. On the other hand, those who have strong beliefs will be persecuted for false allegations; they will be labeled extremists, isolated, and discriminated against.
In Islam Unveiled and in many other places I have written about just this: those who try to construct a peaceful Islam while rejecting and condemning belligerent verses from the Qur'an are always targeted by more literal-minded Muslims, who often apply the many Qur'anic verses denouncing the munafiqun (hypocrites) to them, and refute them using the Qur'an and Sunnah. And here it is in action: IslamOnline warns against "deviat[ing] from the authentic teachings of Islam in order to be called liberal or progressive" and says that those who have "strong beliefs" will be labeled "extremists."
This is why, although I have been ferociously misquoted and viociously misrepresented on occasion, I never use the term "extremists" for jihadists. As I have made clear in both Islam Unveiled and Onward Muslim Soldiers, they are actually traditional Muslims, working in a mainstream Islamic tradition. There is nothing extreme about them except their actions.
To preserve genuine Islam in the West, every sincere Muslim has an obligation to educate as many people as he/she can about Islamic beliefs and values.Islam is a complete way of life. We must adjust our lifestyle to our religion-not the other way round. That is, we cannot twist the laws of Allah and His message to fit our convenience or to please a person or group. To accomplish this noble mission, Muslims need to coordinate and unite their efforts to withstand the plots that aim at distorting Islamic teachings under slogans like "Reforming Islam" or "Promoting Liberal Islam." We need to focus our energy in passing the genuine message of Allah to humanity....
I have many times here at Jihad Watch made clear my skepticism about the feasibility of reforming Islam. Reform will be well-nigh impossible because of this phenomenon, which I have noted in the books mentioned above: it is all too easy for hardliners to use the Qur'an and Sunnah to equate reform with disloyalty to Islam. How would FMCAT, for example, respond when faced with such a charge?
Oh, and to all those who are celebrating today: Christ is risen! He is truly risen!
He has risen indeed!
These primitives would piss and moan if we hung them with new rope. I just give up.
Deport them. Every, last one.
Well I just had another success in making someone see the real Islam as described in the Koran, keep up the good work.
Yes, I suppose that it would have been too much for the 17 year old to reply, "I have an education and I thinkyou should be wearing a burqa instead of dressing like a slut."
It seems to me that Islam is dedicated to the free and open exchange of ideas only as long as the traffic goes only way way: "Happy Easter; accept Islam" is okay with them, but I'll bet I'd be accused of hate speech if I marked the end of the Haj by saying, "You know, we need to offer these people a religion that has more to it than worshipping a rock."
Should I try? I could just grab a fistful of "Where Will YOU Spend Eternity?" tracts from the rack up at the Piggly Wiggly and catch a flight to Mecca.
Right?
If one wishes to preserve the possibility of saying "Xristos voskres! Da, deistvitel'no voskres" or "E risorto" or the same in any of a number of languages, without doing so in a furtive or fearful fashion, like Christians now in Iraq, in Pakistan, in the Sudan, in Indonesia, in Egypt, and indeed everywhere that Islam "dominates and is not to be dominated," then one must decide to conduct counter-Da'wa. It is not enough to be immune oneself; every Muslim is supposed to promote Islam, be a missionary for Islam -- and a great many are. But very few non-Muslims take it upon themselves to conduct this counter-Da'wa.
What would that mean? It would mean attempting, at the first sign of propaganda in the local schools, going in and making a fuss. At the first sign of another $20 million dollar mosque-and-madrasa complex (Saudi or foreign-funded) going up in a town nearby, making a fuss -- writing letters, questioning the funding, demanding to know what passages will be quoted. Counter-Da'wa requires one to educate one's own family (today is perhaps not the day, or perhaps it is just the day, depending on one's temperament), friends, and others -- not merely raise an eyebrow of skepticism about "the religion of peace" but let them have it, chapter and verse, about the centrality of Jihad, and about the treatment, in time and space, of all non-Muslims (don't leave any of them out -- Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Confucians, Sikhs, and all others who are, in the manichean division of the world, according to Islam, the Unbelievers, the Others).
One must be as tireless in attempting to counter Da'wa as are those who conduct it. The government is inhibited from doing what it should; the police and other security services, even the armed services, will not allow discussion of Islam that is truthful. Many officials are simply fearful of the likes of CAIR, in some cases reliant on "good" Muslims whom one wishes not to offend (a dangerous inhibition), and often, simply ignorant. Think only of Mayor Menino of Boston, who welcomed the Boston Mosque, promoted a sweetheart deal that even encourages Muslim propagandizing at Roxbury Community College, and prated about the wonders of "diversity."
There has to be a sustained effort to checkmate Islam in the Infidel lands. If the problem were understood, our leaders would realize that this is far more important than spending a fortune, and risking more lives, even now, two months after the elections, which predictably have made Iraq safe for Shi'a rule. We are expected in Iraq who be so pleased, that at a cost of $300 billion and the Reserves and Guard reduced in size and lowered in morale, and with the heavy toll on equipment (with 79 aircraft lost, and hundreds or thousands of armored vehicles either destroyed or prematurely aged), all to accomplish, at best, the following: not an Iranian-style theocracy, but a homegrown Iraqi-style theocracy, where the rule of the "rightly-guided ones" will be indirect, through members of various Islamic parties, and not, as in Iran, directly. How wonderful.
Meanwhile, Da'wa continues unabated and unopposed in the prisons, where the most vulnerable have already been conveniently gathered in a waiting pool of potential recruits to Islam, among the economically and psychically marginal outside of prisons (there are other John Walker Lindhs, other Adam Gadahns o their Spiritual Search, and Islam, of course, has now been identified as the perfect vehicle for expressing one's hatred of, and alienation from, The System, Amerika, what-you-will. Does the sieg-heiling of Nuremburg Rallies, or tramping around in the woods with the like-minded, excite you? Very well then, you no longer need to join the Aryan Brotherhood, or any Neo-Nazi group -- the "community" or Umma al-islamiyya will make you feel at home, and you can dissolve your own personality and problems into that Umma. What a treat for so many, confused and stranded in a world they never made: something that not only provides a Total Explanation of the Universe, but the Perfect Model (al-insan al-kamil) and the Ready-Made Enemy (the Infidel). Or if you are the dreamy summer-of-love sort, or the ex-Trotskyite who came in form the cold but you still want to have a special shtick, setill want to be that Special Someone in your own eyes, you create your Own Private Islam, possibly out of the dreamiest version of "Sufi" Islam, and convince yourself, and attempt to convince others, that that Islam of your own imagination is the "real" Islam.
The varieties of vulnerabilty are many. The duty to do something about this falls on all Infidels who have bothered to inform themselves. They should do their best to help inform others.
This website:
http://www.islamophobia-watch.com/about-us
is an example of this kind of 'da'wa' by victimhood. Its writers see 'Islamophobia' in every attempt to raise legitimate questions about Islam. Jihadwatch is mentioned regularly, as is the softy lefty site Harry's Place, for having the nerve to challenge 'Sheikh' Quawradai (?) on wife-beating.
Interestingly no attempt is made to counter the arguments in the allegedly Islamophobic articles. Merely raising the issue is enough to get these Muslims seething and whining.
You raise the important concern: what can a secular-minded member of an Islamic society say when a devout Muslim points out that the doctrines and history of Islam condemn such lax or lapsed secular behavior? What can one say to the devout if you won’t explicitly reject Islamic ideology? How do you intellectually defend your actions and values while explicitly respecting the authority of Islam? Who wins in the long run in this situation?
I have yet to see the advocates of moderation explain how a lasting transformation can be achieved without repudiating Islam? Most explanations have been cursory and dismissive. I’d like to see such advocates answer these important questions in a through manner.
In any case, Easter Greetings to everyone!
Interestd~ That link to islamophobia watch is not working... nor is it coming thru from Harry's place, nor am I able to access it directly. Is it possible it has been shut down as a jihadist hate site already?
Stick your murderous da'wah where the sun don't shine! Your da'wah is based on Muhammad's hallucinations in the Arabian desert
And happy Easter to all.
What I say about the Prophet are not insults but the truth.
The only words I know for a person who massacres his prisoners of war indiscriminately is a criminal and a mass murderer.
The only word I know for someone who at the age of 53 becomes aroused by a 9-year-old child is pedophile.
The only word I know that describes a person who raids merchant caravans and steals their goods is highway robber.
The only words that I know for someone who captures human beings and sells them or asks for ransom to release them is a slave merchant and a terrorist.
The only word that I know for someone who forces himself on a captured woman in the same day that he kills her father, husband and many of her relatives is a rapist.
The only word that I know that describes a person who sends his men to kill his opponents in the middle of the night traitorously is an assassin.
If you think these are offensive words please suggest other words that are less offensive. I promise to use them instead. But if Muslims are offended for they believe what I say is false then they have to prove it to me that these stories are all baseless.
Ali Sina
BTW, Happy Resurrection Day! And greetings to all our Jewish friends during Purim.
The link works for me.
They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
By the way, "islamophobia" is a clear example of how the left/pragmatists denies reality in general and attempts to normalize/mainstream irrationality/degeneracy.
The muslims did not invent the term or concept, they are just taking advantage of it.
It is very difficult to read this nonsense this morning: 'genuine Islam', 'authentic teachings', 'passed on to humanity'. And what about the opponents of the 'genuine, authentic collective (umma)', the 'true believers', the ones have surrended all rationality to the immutable, inconsistent, inhumane maze of commands and examples in the Qur'an, Sunnah, and Sira? These other folks, the anti-Muslims, by the irrational, encrusted definitions of the belief system are people-demons destined for hell, because they dare to say a word against the prophet; or, to adapt language to the 'struggle' in contemporary Western discourse, they are 'bigots', 'hate-mongers' that must be 'fought'.
The game is up. This is bizaare, paranoid, cult mentality, the marbles are scrabbled. Call the doctor.
Ok, the site is working for me now. Curious tho... they only seem to have Rhetoric to offer, not proof that Mr. Spencer might be wrong.. I see no arguments to the contrary, only the kind of rant giaour or... what was his name? Tomboy? Too sleepy to remember.. have to offer. But I am still reading there, just in case someone on that site actually said something worth thinking about.
I noticed that there there is no link to this site:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/
Is that because they are scared of linking to it for what it will do to those non-Jihadists. I followed a link from this site to this one:
http://knowislam.info/drupal/
Maybe the poor insulted Islamists should watch the stoning video which is detailed on that site or maybe they have particpated in such an act, enjoy it did you? Feel insulted now.., enjoying tortuing someone to death, the story of a young girl stoned to death for love in Ali Sina's site, was truely sad.
If you can not see that the himan race has moved on from this barbaric backward approach then there is no hope for you.
As I head over to my sister's for Eastern dinner- where that unclean vehicle of damnation the pig will play some prominent role (although I prefer turkey), I can only say to those Muslims who cannot defend their religion with its own dogmatic tenets ("Women ARE only worth half of a man!" the young Muslim girl could have rebutted in the locker room), but insist on being quiveringly helpless eternal victims of hate-speech and Islamophobia:
"Free your mind and the rest will follow!"
(a lyric from a group of lovely African American ladies-
who thankfully have left the burqa and the straightjacket of patriarchal invisibility and its attendant serfdom back in the 7th century dust where is belongs)
It has become socially acceptable to engage in bigoted and racist speech about Christians and the Jewish people. More frightening is the reality that the hateful thoughts and speech can turn into hateful, even violent action, which can ruin an innocent person's life. Even more frightening are these hateful thoughts and speech that are taught from birth from the Quran.
I just did a little follow-up/refresher on my use of the word "pragmatist".
And lo and behold there are Marxist fingerprints all over it.
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/encyclopedia/P/Pr/Pragmatic_theory_of_truth.htm
http://home.cwru.edu/~ngb2/Authors/Habermas.html
Bush is a fricken pragmatist.
News for you Daffersd. I'm on another forum (free speech) which is infested by Islamists, literally hundreds of them as posters and lurkers, maybe even thousands. I've posted the stoning video a hundred times at least, the Islamics response is to rationalize the act, diminish it, and to respond by trying to attack me and put me on the defense.
Muslims know all about stoning, they approve it, and watching it only reinforces their beliefs. about how virtuous Islam is and how protective of family values. They brag about how they dispense with the likes of "decadent" people, such as gays, feminists, MTV and what they call the degrading influences of the west.. Islamics more than Christians are "family values" protective.
Gees Kentim. Although rigidly anti Marxist (and have always been...) I probably am one whom you and others would consider a "leftist"/Pragmatist, and I don't deny reality... in fact I have no problem at all of wearing the label Islamophobe, after all it is merely a word, and a propaganda tool. Such epithets and accusations only work on westerners, for behind the Judeo Christianity of western mentality lies the operating ethos of Guilt, and it is by guilt that we are manipulated. So the enemies of the west (and westerners themselves) use guilt as a tool of attack, for political and propaganda purposes.
We use guilt to attack ourselves, and groups with whom we disagree, thus proving the efficacy of guilt, no wonder the Muslims use guilt.
We in the west have developed and employed the tool of guilt, and use it daily, the Muslims would be fools not to use the tool that we developed and employ even against each other and ourselves.
Their operating ethos is, on the other hand aggression, and it is guilt free.
Examples of how we teach them to use guilt against us? Campaigns such as "pro life", or Terry Schiavo are examples and instructive.
And by the way, I don't believe in the Abrahamic myth and all that follows from it's Hindu, Ugaritic and Egypto-Grecan origins.
And that which apparently differentiates me and my anti Jihad/anti Dhimmi attitude and participation, is not motivated by religion, but simple survival of the best culture that has ever evolved on the face of this planet, the secular western culture (and a nod of gratitude to the positive, not negative, contributions to it by Judeo Christianity).
(BTW all religions are mutually exclusive and thus self cancelling), in fact there is not chance of victory in a religous war, without the complete annhilation (through force or conversion) of the competition.
To my eyesight and knowledge, that portion of the self defense against Islamism that is motivated by religion, is in essence no different than the Islamists, not in the long term vs short term effects.
So if this is, as it seems to be, for most some kind of religous war, and the ultimate goal is to define the nature of an ultimate theocracy, count me out of the war.
I'll fight and contribute to the preservation of secular western democratic values, but not to a religious war or theocracy which at the end of the day is essentially indistinguishable (to a secularist) from the Islamic threat.
Cheers.
Happy Easter, giaour!
Giaour - you make a very good point there about the Judeo-Christian guilt culture. Islam is a shame/honour culture. This leads to the almost amusing dialogue between the two cultures that goes someting like this:
West: The West is terrible, racist imperialist and decadent. Islam is a religion of peace.
Islam: The West is terrible, racist, imperialist and decadent. Islam is a religion of peace.
West: Er, the West is quite good too, and Muslims are not always peacefu.
Islam: Isalophobia - the West IS evil and Islam IS a religion of peace - if you don't agree I'll kill you.
The Islamic world either accepts Western self-abasement at face value or laughs at its weakness. They have found our Achilles heel.
Well, Giaour,I don't think you can pick and chose bits and pieces of a philosophy and discard what you don't like and claim that (original) philosophy is correct. Doing so destroys that philosophy, and creates a new one.
The same goes for islam.
You may agree with some principles, and they may be correct, but that does not make you an adherent of that philosophy. Especially when the foundation(relevatism/subjective reality) of that philosophy is at odds with your own beliefs.
There is no doubt guilt can be exploited--
But guilt is not in of itself an evil/negative concept. It is useful and necessary, as is shame, because it is a natural emotion and is part of being human. The key is to have a rational basis that triggers those emotions.
I agree, religious war would be a mistake. And I am also well aware that some are chomping at the bit to make it so. I have no intention of being forced to follow "god's will" as law any more than you, but I think the hub-bub about an American Christian theocracy is almost as laughable as the muslims taking over the USA.
Unless you actually believe we were a theocracy before the 1960's, I really don't see what you base your fears on.
'but I think the hub-bub about an American Christian theocracy is almost as laughable as the muslims taking over the USA.'~ Kentim
Exactly, Kentim. It is a joke to think there is a christian (note the small 'c') / conservative movement out to rule the US. But you know there are groups more than happy to make out anyone who even Hints that they believe in God (especially the God of the Bible) as some kind of evil member of such a conspiracy. I for one am Seriously tired of it. It is just another way of silencing dissent against their cultural ideas.
Is there room for change in Islam? Does the Quran allow for change? What can we make of (SURA 2:106) "Such as our revelations as we abrogate our cause be forgotten, we bring ( in place) one better or the like thereof . Knowest thou no that Allah is able to do all things?"--Or (SURA 16:101) "And we put a revelation in place of (another) revelation-- and Allah knowest best what he revealest". And what of the Hadiths that where composed and revealed by A bukhari 200 years after the death of Mohammed? There where oveer 600,000 of these Hadiths floating around when Bukhari was asked to pick a miniscule amount of them that represented the traditions and sayings of Mohammed. One questions how many can really be attributed to Mohammed.This is especially of concern when most muslims spend their time reading hadiths instead of the Quran.
From :http://www.islamophobia-watch.com/display/ShowJournal?moduleId=103277&categoryId=7539
Sub title of web page :
Islamophobia: Anti Muslim Racism
I didn't know Muslim was a race?
Other interesting BS
I see that by their definitions all people must accept not the Islam of the Qur'an, but what some Moslems portray as "Islam", and if they disagree or question such, they are "Islamaphobes".
These definitions turned around make Moslems guilty of being, Jewaphobes, Christianaphobes, Hinduaphobes, Buddhaphobes, atheistaphobes, Westernaphobes, porkaphobes, musicaphobes, sportsaphobes, womenaphobes, libertyaphobes, canineaphobes, ect....
Some atheistic leftist ideologies in their current state of practice are much closer to Mohammadanism then any type of main stream Christianity ever practiced in history. We call Islam a death cult. Atheistic leftism advocates murder for the sake of convenience, both the unborn and other burdensome degenerates.
29M legal abortions were performed in the United States, 1970-95. (Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, Vol. 47 No. SS-2) Estimated abortions worldwide: 527M to 836M (1920-2000)
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat8.htm#Abortions
Of course IslamOnline will urge the spread of Islam in the West. IF Islam is spread and acceptable, all Muslims worldwide will receive benefits created by the labor and talent of non-Muslims.
What is an Islamophobe? Phobia is an irrational fear. Concern about the spread of Islam IS NOT irrational for we have seen the result of Islam's spread throughout history and are witnessing the same murderous and violent phenomenon wherever Islam is going at the present time. Thus checking the spread of Islam in the West is both necessary and logical. Anyone that believes otherwise is a fool.
Giaour-
Thanks for your comments, which mirror what I have been trying to tell people about Islam and the liberal Western mentality that keeps excusing its barbarities for some time now. W/o guilt ethical behavior is impossible; yet the way it is wallowed in by many liberals and leftists is neurotic, if not exactly pathological. These people are so horrified by the thought that they might behave unjustly towards the "Other" that they can't even make judgements about the Other's behavior, because judgement leads to dislike, and dislike to hatred, and since everyone is frail and influenced by their own selfishness, best just to give the Other the benefit of the doubt and assume it was something we did that drove him to commit his latest atrocity...
Paul Berman talked about this mentality in "Terror and Liberalism" when it comes to leftist codemnations of Israel (which grow more hysterical the more barbaric the Palestinians behave) and I think it applies to multi-cultural apologists for Islam like Karen Armstrong and John Esposito. They've studied enough history to know what a disaster jihad and dhimmitude have been for millions of non-Muslims, but can't bring themselves to say anything negative because they're too afraid it will be influenced by their own prejudices when it comes to this exotic, outside culture.
I can't formulate an argument for why such masochistic behavior is wrong (any more than I can argue for why other self-destrutive behaviors like suicide are wrong when the subject is hurting only
himself), but it does outrage me, and it certainly causes lots of indirect harm today- particularly for those peoples in Sudan, Egypt, the Caucuses, etc. suffering from the direct brunt of jihad.
Lastly, though I too consider myself a secularist, lately I've come to really appreciate the moral achievements of the Judeo-Christian tradition. It's too easy to forget how barbaric early civilizations were and how much Jewish ethics ameliorated their evils. After all, there used to cannibalism, infanticide, mutilation, human sacrifice, etc. Even the Bible's condemnation of homosexuality was a moral good. Though I don't doubt it was driven somewhat by aesthetic repulsion to homosexual acts (or that these attitudes are becoming out-of-date now) you have to remember that homosexual relations in ancient times were not like the kind you see on "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy"- with 2 free and equal men/women engaging in consensual behavior. Back then it was more like child abuse, with rich, powerful men imposing themselves on boys who were poor, or of low-status, or enslaved. We tend to forget how barbaric ancient people were, and despite my animosity towards Islam even I would concede it lead to moral uplift in some of the the places it conquered (e.g. Persia).
A detail: Eastern Orthodox Christians will be celebrating Pascha (i.e., Easter) May 1.
A Blessed Easter to those celebrating today.
Pilgrim
Xristos Anesti!
The Islamic Awakening (as-Sahwah) website posted a hyper-critical attack on "moderate Islam" and an implicit defense of CAIR, ISNA, and AMC Islamofascists. See for yourselves what they say of US public diplomacy (Wolfowitz "democratic domino" nonsense), but do not forget that Bush uses Islamofascists - such as the ISNA - as paid consultants on "Islamic affairs." The former director of the FBI spoke at an American Muslim Council convention in 2003. Muslims treat that type of perverse incluvism, as: surrender. The policy of pacification of the mortal Muslim enemy by inclusion of same in cleric-engineered' pseudo-democratic processes, cannot work. The People Power Bloc in the Middle East is best described in terms of Julien Benda's concept of "organized hatred," or mosque based mob-rule. Legitimation of Islamofascism in any guise is: pure folly. The only way to win the war against Islamofascists is to kill Islamofascists, until they are absolutely powerless.
http://www.islamicawakening.com/viewarticle.php?articleID=1214&
...Returning to the Rand report, Civil Democratic Islam: partners, resources, strategies, the suggestions of its author, Cheryl Benard, are nothing more than a Machiavellian manifesto that seeks to enforce Western hegemony and cultural imperialism through the policy of "divide and rule." The type of Islam that Benard espouses is a passive and weak Islam that can be easily penetrated and hence reformulated to suit the West's agenda.
The report may be seen as the latest in a long series of policy papers by the "embedded intellectuals" dedicated to further the military and economic objectives of the West as well as cultural onslaught on the Muslims...
If you support the "faith based" spin about alleged familial unity among Jews, Christians and Muslims, please download the following Wahabi extremist book:
http://www.tibyan.com/publication.php?id=67
At pg 22, the Wahabis invoke the "Satanic verse" incident, to illustrate prescribed Muslim contempt for their disbeliever (kafir) target. At 29 they have this to say, "...with what could I refute with the people who desire the establishment of the khilafah, while they cannot even differentiate between the expression, 'the children of Ibrahim (Abraham),' which the tawhif use nowadays to appease the Jews, and enter into peace conferences with them; an expression which is intended to annihilate the ties of faith (imam) and dissolve the very foundation of the religion and shake the basis of "Allegiance and Disavowal" (al-Wala'Wal-Bara). And Allah the Most High has refutated them as He said, 'Ibrahim was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was a true Muslim Hanifa (Islamic Monotheist - to worship none but Allah alone) and he was not of the al-Mushrika (Polytheist)' At 37, after invoking the genocidal credo of ibn-Wahab, they write, "And some of those who assume, may assume that this Millah (plural of ummah, or community) of Ibrahim could be implemented in our time (merely) by studying the Tawhid and knowing its three categories and knowing its types by way of theoretical knowledge alone, while remaining silent concerning the people of falsehood and not declaring and openly demonstrating the disavowal from their falsehood."
A big problem is that people are so thin-skinned these days that any criticism, no matter how respectful, is taken as a verbal assault. Generally, it is the people most fond of being offensive who get most huffy and thin-skinned when they are answered or criticized.
Much as I dislike islam, telling a girl in a hijab or burqa to get an education while assuming she "has to be" ignorant is something utterly uncalled for. I am always a bit amused, after exposure to a number of languages, cultures, and histories, how people who know only one language (and that badly) start getting very condescending with me when they find I'm a practicing Christian.
Yesterday in US, a southern baptism that won a gold metal in boxing, and converted to islam, was received in Holy Catholic Church, in other places like Nigeria, Italia or Uganda others.
Islam is raising for bad formation of christians that produces that muslim´s women converts to islam, many children and terrorism, their faith don´t have any atractive, Christ is life, Christ is resurection, Muhamad is death, like algerians say christianism is life and islam is death. Happy Easter to everybody
Emporor_Diocletian,
Actually you touched on "why such masochistic behavior is wrong"..."causes indirect harm today".
I think you may have stopped a little short with your diagnosis. I would add Sadism to it.
I think it is pretty well known that suicide is often used to cause harm to survivors,and is one example.
People should be held accountable for their actions,supposed ignorance on their part does not absolve them from taking responsibilty for the consequences of their actions.
There is no excuse for people like "scholarly" islam apologists, they are either ideologically/philosophically motivated and are following a strategic/tactical methodology to realize their goals, or they are simply incompetent. I have a hard time believing it's the latter. I think there is a method to their madness.
There's no point in listening to anything a Muslim says. Not from CAIR, not from ISLAM ONLINE. Not from anywhere.
Because adherents to Islam have no concept of facts, no concept of truth or reality as we understand them. They live in a world of fabrications and deceptions which has never relented in its falseness during the last 13 centuries. These people could probably be made to believe two plus two equals five if it was in the Koran. Muslims actually believe the earth is flat. (And they believe WE need THEM!!!).
As Goebbels once said "tell a lie often enough and it becomes the truth." At least in the human mind. Muslims are a living testimonial to this observation. But the reality is---
Islam=terrorism. Nothing else matters.
Get Islam out of America.
Sorry Diocleatian, but this ethos of guilt is not a consequence of "liberals" or "liberalism", but it is a direct consequence of the Judeo Christian heritage and influence of the west. Judeo Christianity is built upon guilt and fear.
There is liberals and there are "liberals", just like conservatives and "conservatives". I'm a little of both, depending on the situation and my thoughtful analysis of consequences. No knee jerk reactionary here. I'm very liberal when it comes to civil rights and equality, but with caveats as I explain at the end of this long rant.
Islam deserves no accomodation or consideration because as a cradle to grave ideology it accords no consideration to the "other", and to the extent Judeo Christianity does not as well, then it deserves no consideration or respect either.
Again from Diocletian.
You are forgetting the Rightist condemnations of Israel, such as the Presbyterians (whom are Calvinists and the wellspring of Dominion Theology, an ideology which has taken over the Christian Right) and let's not overlook the dhimmi Church of the Eastern and Latin Rites either.
Karen Armstrong and John Esposito are secular voices, more pervasive and influential are the voices of religious leadership like those of the Qur'an kissing Pope, the dhimmi Eastern Churches, and the Dominion Theologists like those who can be found in the Council for National Policy.
I'm not sure that guilt is a natural part of being human, I think it is an enculturated concept, to wit the Muslims get along just fine without guilt, and seem to have none at all. Guilt on the other hand has probably contributed to the civilizing of our once "barbarian" ancestors.
There is however such a thing as "too much of a thing" and there is rational, useful guilt, vs irrational and counterproductive guilt. I think the idea of guilt, and how it is used to control out behavior and attitudes, needs closer study and thinking, because it has become quite obviously counterproductive and contributing to the suicide of the west.
For instance I would like to see a study as regards the effeciency of guilt on True Muslims.
Since guilt is the trigger of heartbeats and galvanic responses in lie detectors. On the other hand shame and honor would, it seems, trigger lie detectors in Muslims.
As regards the US becoming a theocracy. Yes, it is happening by half steps, with each passing weak the theocrats are becoming stronger, more influential and our politicians cave into them (both for Christian, and Islamic Votes).
I was born in the late 1930's and have watched the increasing radicalization of America (sadly).
During the communist scare of the '50's and the McCarthy witchhunts (of which there was some validity BTW), Congress inserted "Under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance, thus opening the door for the pledge to be further modified in my grandchildrens time with "Under Allah".
There has been a steady erosion, and sometimes jackhammer attempts, at tearing down the wall seperating Church and state. The religious right (which actually includes Muslims) is one hell of a powerful and influential lobby, it sticks it's nose into everybodies business, and it's values are actually epitomized in Islam.
Take, for example, a big issue with The Christian Right, display of the ten commandments in public places. These retards whine persecution (and don't Muslims whine persecution all the time, using Judeo Christian guilt to manipulate our political leaders?).
Calling these people retards is perhaps a little inflammatory? I think not, for they open Pandora's Box, "conservatives" are short range thinkers, motivated by the need for immediate gratification and self righteous, and irrational fears, they demand policies and actions that have long range counterproducitve results and unintended adverse consequences.
An example. If Christians can get official sanction for their values, beliefs and symbols so can everyone else, including Muslims.
And if Christians can get their precious ten commandments displayed in court houses, then Musims can and will successfully demand the display of theirs.
What think you of having a plaque displayed alongside the Ten Commandments a plaque of the US with the Ba'ashmallah on it.
You will have to do some clicking on links since this blog doesn't accept pictures
I frequently meet with disbelief when I explain that the Islamist goal is to take over the United States and replace the Constitution with the Koran. Well, as they say, a picture is worth a thousand words, and here is that picture, culled from "The American Muslim" website: From American Muslim Website
Because it is one of many images on the border of the site, here from Daniel Pipes is the image I'm talking of.
Ba'smalah
The Arabic written across the United States is the basmalah, usually translated into English as "In the Name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate." This Koranic invocation, the authoritative Encyclopaedia of Islam (vol. 1, p. 1084) informs us, "at the beginning of every important act, calls down the divine blessing on this act and consecrates it."
There is no doubt at all, that the religious right wants a theocratic America, they pronounce their goals and demands constantly, and they use political muscle to move us in that direction, yet with every forward step, every success, they also make it easier to replace this once great society that was secular and western with a society that is theocratic and eastern.
I'm an old fart, way past my prime, and I am fortunate enough to have been born in the late 1930's and have lived through the VERY best of times, as a consequence all of my affairs and my economic status is in very very good shape.
What portends for the future will be moot and irrelevant as I will be long gone, my children, grandchildren and great grand children (yes I have them) will have to do what I did, adjust, contend and survive in a world not of their making.
And I suspect that most of the posters and viewers here are about the age of my children and grandchildren. It's your world, and you will (by virue of irrational fears and needs and thoughtless short sighted actions) screw up the world that you will have to live in, not my world though.
You can construct a reality in your own mind, but the reality that you will have to live in is not the reality that exists in your mind.
There is a documentary on link TV "Mom I'm a Muslim", four (out of 30,000) British women who have converted to Islam. I had a conversation with an English friend as to why women willingly convert to Islam.
Bottom line is that women are not raised to be objectively self validating (men aren't either, but men are more so than women).
Here was his reply
Can you see the problem here? I can, people who are raised to be subservient, lack a sense of self worth, personal sovereignty wind up self loathing and prime candidates for authoritarian and patriarchial ideologies. Be it a Patti Hearst and the SLA, a David Koresh and Jim Jones, the Holy Roman and Catholic Church, the Southern Baptist Church, the Presbyterian Church or Islam.The more patriarchial and oppressive it is, the more it reinforces and justifies their own sense of non entity.
As regards Christianism being life, I disagree I was a Christian and am still a Bible scholar.
Christianity, mimics Islam, in that it worships death, the whole justification for living in Christianity is to live life in such a manner that one enjoys Paradise (heaven) go to straight to heaven (no side stops in purgatory for Catholics anyway).
Christians worship and glorify (at Easter tide) in the death of their savior. That is death worship (and actually it is that death worship of their savior that Muhammad denies, that is why he claimed that the crucifixion was faked, because his god would not cause the Son of Mary to die such a horrible death).
Gary: Strange that a Jewish boy would wish an atheist Happy Easter.
The ritual of Easter is derived from the pagan fertility right of the goddess Eostre (also Astarte, Istar, Inanna, Esther which was Venus as the Morning Star.. Venus cult animal was the hare (easter bunny).
Eostre, where she was known as Astarte was also a fierce warrior goddess and her cult sign was the Chi Rho (the Papal Signet of the XP transposed), and it was this sign that Constantine had painted on the shields of his legions at the battle of the Milivan Bridge. An early form of psychological warfare as the armies of Astarte (Eostre) were known for their ferocity and barbarity.
BTW, the papal mitre (hat) looked at sideways is the Babylonian Fish God Dagon, who was (along with some Syrian Kings) the model for Solomon.
And the Passion of the Christ is a virtual rip off of the Passion of Ba'al. Which is duly recorded on a 4,000 year old tablet in the British Museum.
Jerusalem got it's name from Uras Salem, Uru the Plague God, Salem the Sun god in his malevolent role as god of the dead and lord of HYLL).
Abdul Shipa, who was Governor of Jerusalem about 1430 bc states in a letter to his overlord, Amenhophis IV of Egypt, that Jerusalem or Urusalem is the city of Beth Ninnip and of Uras, the god of war, whose name there was Salem.To Beth Ninip (Salem) the swine was sacred and thus forbidden (except during religious rituals) to his worshippers.
Hallelujah is placed at the beginning and end of many Pslams in exactly the same way that the ancient Greeks used to place "Eleeleu Ie" at the beginning and end of the much older hymns to Apollo. Hallelu jah or Allelu ie means Praise ye Ia (jah or Yah as in Yah Weh).
In the Hebrew Bible Yah weh (YHVH) is referred to as The Lord (Adon nay), Adon or Aton, Adonis means The Lord and the heretic pha RA oh Amenhotep IV, took the name Ahk en ADON (Aton,Aten) meaning The Lord is pleased. And Ahk en ADON is the springboard for creation of MOSES, and MOSES is Egyptian (as in Tuth MOSES which means Born of the God Tuth or Toth). Which would be appropriate because MOSES is the birth of borning of a new religion.
The word Hell is a latinization of the Hebrew HYLL (Isaiah 14:12, which means Morning Star or Venus as she precedes the sun, but which was translated by Jerome/Augustine into the Latin and subsequently King James as Lucifer - the Manichean bad god (Zoroastrian Ahriman) but still Venus as she precedes the sun.
The reference to a virgin giving birth in Isaiah 7:14, was written as regards the time of Isaiah, and it wasn't a virgin either, in Hebrew it is LMH or Almah (another Egyptian loan word, which means dancing girl), the Hehrew word for virgin is BTHLW or Bethulah, and both Almah and Bethulah are used throughout the Old Testament. Isaiah 7:14 does not say that a Bethulah (BTHLW or virgin) will give birth it says an Almah (LMH, young woman who is not a virgin). It is ludicrous that a patriarchial culture like the Hebrew, which didn't even trace the lineage of women (as the Arabs don't) would countenance the idea that a Virgin would produce a messiah from the seed of David, The notion of female genealogy in the mid east and levant is ludicrous, as ludicrous as it is even in our own time. At least these days we have paper trails (that only go back as far as the 19th Century maybe) in those days (and today) the female genealogy disappears, hence the genealogy of Jesus in Matthew and Mark HAS to be a construct out of thin air.
The Septuagent translators used the Greek word Parthenos for LMH, and parthenos has many meanings including unmarried woman who is not a virgin.
Final exposition the Abraham myth of Muslims and Jews is exactly that...a myth. Abraham betrays the Indus Valley origin of the Jews, it means son of Brahma (aBrahma) and his wife Sarati (Sarah) was a moon goddess.
For clarification I have not come across my skepticism and free thinking lightly, christened Presbyterian at birth, baptised by my uncle as a Southern Baptist at age 17, I converted to Traditional Roman Catholicism (Latin Rite anti Vatican II) at age 36, finally found my own mind at age 45.
I want not part of a religous war, or my a Battle for god, my sole interests in this life or death struggle is to preserve civil liberties, freedom, equal rights (for all, including women and gays), I would include Muslims but they exclude themselves, for I can't give unto others what others will not give unto me in return.
A person,ideology, creed that does not recognize and respect or honor free speech and freedom to worship or not, nor recognizes the FULL equality of all people, deserve no recognition or defense.
That which you do to others you do to yourself, that which you deny others you deny to yourself.
In other words the religion-ideology is the backboard off which the play is made, or the serve that is returned.
Like for like, repay debts with like coin, good coin for good coin, bad coin for bad.
And the pacificism of Christianity (turn the other cheek) is a suicide pact, and that is where the Muslims and Jews have it one up on the Christians.
Giaour~ like kj, you have just proved to be a secularist *uck.
I am Polish/German. Even if I Was Jewish, your baseless assumptions would piss me off. Don't pay any attention to what a person actually Says, just assume, distort, demean, demonize, put words into their mouths and then lie about that, as well.
You have just renewed my resolve to make sure the Left Loses the next few votes, '06 and '08 at the very least.
I shall also continue to post the links to those Leftists the Entire American Public needs to be made aware of, in Academia as well as the MSM and Political pundits.
By the time islam is no longer a threat, your goals will set back by decades.
We need a new noun to replace "Islamophobe" which is "someone who is afraid of Islam." The more I learn about Islam the less afraid I get, and the more angry and defensive (of our western way of life) I get. In fact, Islam is really starting to piss me off.
We need a noun that can be translated as "someone who is enlightened about Islam and rejects it; who will actively defy it and try to help spread the word about the fact that Islam has no "New Testament" to modify it, or make it compatible with any society other than clones of itself: male-dominated, backwards, cruel, ignorant and unreconstructed."
It's not 'planned media campaigns' that produce Islamophobes, as IslamOnline claims. It's the dawning light of truth that's producing them. And rightly so.
Any suggestions for a new, better word to replace "Islamophobe?" We need that word, NOW.
Leftism in America has accomplished what Islam has only dreamed of.
On average there are 1.3 million surgical abortions per year in America sense 1973.
That’s only 40 million Americans in 31 years killed by surgical infanticide.
“Abortion is the ultimate exploitation of women” ~ Alice Paul
“Abortions is advocated only by those, who themselves have been born”
Ronald Reagan 40th President
Elizabeth Cady Stanton termed abortion as “infanticide”.
Susan B. Anthony referred to abortion as “child murder”.
Matilda Joslyn Gage suggested it was the greatest wrongs against a women and it was committed by men.
Warning : very graphic pictures http://womensissues.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mttu.com%2Fabort-pics%2F
‘And the pacificism of Christianity (turn the other cheek) is a suicide pact’
You don’t need to be a Bible scholar to know the meaning of that passage (Mat 5:39). Christ himself interprets it in the passages following it (Mat 5:40-42), where he states that if someone forces you to walk 1mile, go 2 miles. If someone sues you wrongly, give him more than he sues for. In essence, what reward do you have if you only love those that love you. It is completely imbecilic to suggest the passage requires Christians to be passive in a life threatening situation. If that was Christ’s aim, he would have spoken about knives and rocks not coats and beggars.
A person,ideology, creed that does not recognize and respect or honor free speech and freedom to worship or not, nor recognizes the FULL equality of all people, deserve no recognition or defense.~ Giaour
I agree.... When do you think the left will begin to respect all life, other than their own?
However, like you say, it can be taken too far and become masochistic or even suicidal if not balanced by a strong sense of self-worth and self-justice. Conservatives tend to emphasize self-justice over empathy (which is the more natural, if not always most ethical, choice); but only liberals take empathy to an such extereme that they automatically surrender to the Others's demands- no matter how unjust or wicked. It was liberals, after all, who excused the racism of black nationalists during the '60's (as well as the '90's, when they were burning down Korean groceries), or who said that vicious criminals were actually victims of society. It is these types of people (sometimes the same people!) who now tell us that Muslim barbarism is the result of colonialism, or the Crusades, or the fact we haven't yet built them a time machine so they can take back AK-47's to the battle of Tours.
Guilt and empathy are necessary for moral behavior (which I think is basically the same as the Golden Rule), but must always be balanced by a strong sense of self-justice so that the wicked don't exploit us for their own evil purposes. I think we do not really disagree that much.
But right-wing anti-Zionism is almost always just a form of anti-Semitism, and so not that interesting to me as a species of warped psychology since it is a form of xenophobia and xenophobia is "natural" human behavior (maybe even evolutionarily adaptive). Also, the basic tenents of liberalism (anti-racism, gender equality, etc.) are so dominant today that right-wing anti-Zionists are completely marginalized in Europe and America, and so not much of a factor. What interests me is why left-wingers and liberals with no feelings of antipathy for Jews (a number are even Jews themselves!) choose to side with the barbaric, theocratic Palestinians over the socialist, secular Israelis.
Religious people are mostly very pro-Israel in America and a dwindling minority in Europe. Among secular people on both continents it's the academics, the poets, the Nobel Prize-winning writers who matter, and these are pretty uniformly anti-Israel.
Sorry, Giaour. We Christians don't worship death; but honor a resurrection. It's why we keep Sunday. The victory belongs to life; not death.
And, so what would you have Jesus do? Raise another Sicari band to be massacred in 70 AD by Titus' Romans?
As for the ripoff of Ba'al worship, I refer you to Isaiah 53. That was what the passion of Christ was all about. The passion got followed by a resurrection--so it's you secularists who see death as the final goal of human existence. It's why you've been folding before the Islamicists right and left.
Yes, those of us left in the Middle East became Dhimmi. But we've been hanging on despite the worst they could do for more than a millennium. My guess is that had we been "secularized" in the 7th and 8th centuries, we'd have folded within a generation.
Gary, this Multicultural by Birth is with you on seeing that the Left loses in '06 and '08.
Christ is risen indeed!
Christians and believers in free-will should read this book, it explains alot. It synthesizes all or most of the abstract pieces of the puzzle of American history over the last 100+ years or so.
It documents the establishment of the new State religion. It is rooted in Rousseau and Wilhelm Wundt.
There IS a method to their madness.
It's free on-line at:
http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/underground/index.htm
And it will piss you off.