I wrote this in this morning's FP article:
Maskhadov was a mastermind of the Beslan school massacre, in which Chechen jihadists held over a thousand schoolchildren and adults hostage for several days, murdering many and engaging in wanton acts of brutality. When one hostage-taker asked Maskhadov and Chechen jihad leader Shamil Basayev why they were doing this, he was told: “Because we need to start a war across the Caucasus.”
Jihad Watch reader JVC has alerted me to this statement by an Islamic apologist at TechCentralStation:
Maskhadov, whose first name, Aslan, means "lion," was a genuine moderate, who sought peace and compromise with the Russians. All objective observers, including the journalists of Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, agree that Maskhadov was the only influential Chechen who truly believed that peace was equally in the interest of Slavs and Chechens, Christians and Muslims and Jews....The Russians could kill Dudayev, Yandarbiyev, and Maskhadov but somehow Basayev, a genuine terrorist, remains untouched.
Was Maskhadov really that different from Basayev? JVC has kindly sent along some links, which correspond to my own research on this. From AP, September 3, 2004:
Although most Chechens are Muslim, Aslan Maskhadov, who became president of Chechnya after Russian forces withdrew in 1996, was seen as relatively secular. However, he came under increasing pressure from radical Islamic factions led by warlord Shamil Basayev and eventually declared Sharia law, or Islamic law, an idea that has less support among the public at large than it does among the rebels.
From CNN, September 6, 2004:
Appearing on Russian state television, the unidentified man said the attack was ordered by Chechen rebel leader Aslan Maskhadov and Chechen warlord Shamil Basayev.
Can't trust Russian state television, right? Sure. But Basayev did seem to count Maskhadov as an ally. Here is a statement from Basayev from a jihadist website:
Today the Kafirs are showing their weakness by announcing many million rubles of rewards for our leaders and by trying to use their dirty and cunning methods of propaganda and play down the role of President of CRI Maskhadov, and by promising a reward dozens of times lower than they have announced for catching me. But these 'pig shows' of the ones like Kafir-ov (i.e. Kadyrov, head of puppet administration in Chechnya) and other scumbags like him are not new to us.We are all walking under God. And sooner or later we will all die. A death of one of us will change nothing. Because we are seeking a death of a martyr on the way of Allah, while Kafirs (infidels) and Munafiks (national traitors) are trying to extend their good-for-nothing lives. The Jihad will be continuing. Our entire history is the evidence.
There was a time when the Kafirs were hoping that by killing the first President of CRI J. Dudayev they would be able to have something changed. But after President Dudayev became a Shaheed (a martyr), the Jihad only increased and the Mujahideen (fighters) got even stronger. Nothing will change if President Maskhadov, myself or any other leader becomes a Shaheed.
Thank God (Alhamdulillah!), we are not afraid of death and we are not trying to escape it. But if Kafirs want me to die so bad, I can make them an offer: let them give me some more money, about 10-20 million more, and I will give that money to Maskhadov to continue the Jihad, and I myself will buy me a good KAMAZ truck and will drive right up to them.
UPDATE: I just got an email from someone claiming to be a "Russian, but objective." It asserted that Basayev was a KGB agent. But if Basayev is KGB, and Maskhadov was his opponent, why does Basayev speak here as if Maskhadov was on his side?
The Beslan massacre was devastating.
Each of these gasholes should hang, plain and simple. Whether they were jihadist or secular to start with is pointless quibble.
Abject apologies for wandering OT:
Here’s quite a nasty little story, verging on the obscene.
On the radio yesterday morning, there was a snippet re Sudanese troops allegedly poaching ELEPHANTS, not only in the south of the Sudan, but across its national borders as well, in Chad, the Central African Republic, the Congo and in Kenya. This piece of news, it was said, is causing a degree of consternation in some circles. The ivory’s reputedly for sale to Chinese* buyers.
Without meaning the slightest offence whatever to pachyderms, isn’t it rather distressing that nice people in the EU, North America, Japan, et al, get disturbed when some hundreds of poor, dumb animals are killed, but the ongoing GENOCIDE of many, many tens of thousands (at the minimum) of black Darfurians - perpetrated by the SELFSAME Army that the ivory-hunters/soldiers belong to - has been let quietly to sink from view, barely any longer eliciting a stir?
The craven and grotesquely corrupted UN’s declined to identify the mass-murder in Darfur as a case of Genocide, washing its hands of the “controversy”, leaving the issue to be “worked out” - via unspecified means - by the Government of Sudan, as an internal matter. - So all the good citizens can now blithely resume their complacency, while the Darfurians, doomed, perish in their droves, in silence....
*China’s now become Sudan’s major trading-partner, purchasing virtually all of the oil being pumped out of the fresh-found fields in southern Sudan (newly accessible, due to the recent armistice with the rebels of the south of the country) and frantically exploring for more there; it pays the Islamist, Arab Government in Khartoum in hard cash, manufactured items and arms.
re: the update.
There are some people who think the Chechen thing is a cover for Russia. That they really did not change their objectives at the supposed 'collapse', they only restructured(perestroika) and repeated Lenin's "New Economic Policy" which saved them before, back in the 20's.
The cover aspect presents the image of Russia being threatened by islam too. But in fact they are enabling,facilitating, and exploiting the attack against America.
Not that I believe it--, but having studied the history, I remain suspicious.
HGII,
So right.
That entire Chechen scenario is difficult to follow. Do you think that they are trying to confuse us, obfuscate, tell falsehoods, and are running a shell game--try to guess which one is the mujahideen? (When of course ALL of them are that.) Could this be the old tried and true Muslim tactic of deception in war?
As to the Russians having set up their own Muslim enemy to fool the US, didn't the Russian troubles with the Chechens start long before the jihadists attacked the US? In fact when the Russians were fighting Muslims in Afghanistan, the US was supporting those Muslims, including Osama bin Laden. The renewed Chechen insurrection for independence that turned into a fullfledged jihad came after that, if I recall correctly.
Although, I would put nothing past the Russians, it is difficult to imagine that the Russians (under Yeltsin yet) set up this entire ploy in an underhanded attempt to get their superpower status back.
George W. Bush, talking to the press today (March 16, 2005)appears either to be unfamiliar with the history of Islam or unaware of the worldwide jihad being waged by the followers of Islam. There are no "moderate" or "secular" Muslim voices raised in protest against this "lesser" jihad that seeks to kill or convert us all. Therefore, we must assume that most Muslims silently or vociferously support the jihad. After all isn't it following what is in their koran?
If the President of the United States ignores that the "terror" against which he is waging a war is the jihad, then defeating it doesn't stand much of a chance. Of course, when G.W.Bush declares the equality of all religions, assures himself and us that Muslims are loyal US citizens with only the interests of America in their hearts and minds, and welcomes more Muslims to come to the US, there is always the suspicion that he reassuring his "friends and allies" the Saudis. Whatever his motives, his words indicate tat he is unaware of the goal of Muslim citizens, immigrants, and the Saudis: the Islamization of the United States. If Muslim American citizens are not openly pushing for that, let us say that they would not be opposed to an Islamic Republic or America with shariah instead of the Constitution as the law of the land.
George W. Bush, talking to the press today (March 16, 2005)appears either to be unfamiliar with the history of Islam or unaware of the worldwide jihad being waged by the followers of Islam. There are no "moderate" or "secular" Muslim voices raised in protest against this "lesser" jihad that seeks to kill or convert us all. Therefore, we must assume that most Muslims silently or vociferously support the jihad. After all isn't it following what is in their koran?
If the President of the United States ignores that the "terror" against which he is waging a war is the jihad, then defeating it doesn't stand much of a chance. Of course, when G.W.Bush declares the equality of all religions, assures himself and us that Muslims are loyal US citizens with only the interests of America in their hearts and minds, and welcomes more Muslims to come to the US, there is always the suspicion that he reassuring his "friends and allies" the Saudis. Whatever his motives, his words indicate tat he is unaware of the goal of Muslim citizens, immigrants, and the Saudis: the Islamization of the United States. If Muslim American citizens are not openly pushing for that, let us say that they would not be opposed to an Islamic Republic or America with shariah instead of the Constitution as the law of the land.
Chechnya is not an issue which the USSR manufactured to try and regain its superpower status. Chechnya is a mainly Islamic region of Russia (a mainly Christian country) and the conflict is about religion. Some say its about nationality but essentially the only thing to differentiate Chechens from Russians is their religion, they speak the same language... at least they did untill the Arabs descended on the place after 1996 - now there is a rise in spoken Arabic (esp. amongst the Rebels - who frequently use Arabic banners, despite the fact the region was never run by Arabs).
Baseeyev was a high ranking officer in the Soviet Armed forces, but since the fall of the wall he's been very much anti-Russian. He reputedly resides in the Middle East now, and is active in Wahabbi circles.
One of the countries that plays a very active role in encouraging the Jihad in Chechnya is Turkey. The Turks allow rebels to train in Turkey (see CNN report, pre 9-11 linked below) and Turkey's satellite state (Azerbaijan) is used as one of the transit routes for rebels. Worth bearing in mind given the Turks will be in the EU soon.
Chechnya is a crucial battle in the Global Jihad. Some say the future of the Russian Federation itself depends on the outcome of the conflict. The Russians know how serious the situation is and so are not afriad to use a level of force "the West" would avoid. If I was Putin I would use exactly the same level of force, if Russia doesnt win in Chechnya then it will be a major setback for the rest of the non-Islamic world. Chechnya will become like Afghanistan in the 1990s - an unstable state, terrorist haven etc. It will also close an active front which ties down many Jihadists, and would probably spur the Jihadists on to increase attacks in other regions.
The sad thing to remeber is what the Jihadists do in Chechnya usually happens when they face America/UK a few years later. Chechen rebels have been beheading Russians, making disgusting video recordings, suicide bombing checkpoints, recording the shooting down of Russian aircraft with Stinger Missiles, etc throughout the 1990s. Now in Iraq weve seen similar things video beheadings, suicide bombings at checkpoints, and the video of the shot down British jet. Since 1999 the Chechens have taken the conflict into the rest of Russia in a determined manner. Incidents such as the Appartment Bombings, invasion and siege of Dagestan (both 99), and more recently the Moscow Subway Bombings, Aircraft Bombings, Theater Siege and Beslan took Russia by suprise as before 1999 attacks by Chechens outside of Chechnya were unexpected. The point is, its very likely that the USA and UK will sadly experience things like Beslan and Mosow Theater Siege in the future, as what happens in Chechnya usually happens in other places sooner or later.
Here is a CNN article that is in my opinion a bit biased in favour of the Chechens. However its worth reading as it raises intersting facts, like Turkey's extensive sponsorship of the Jihad in Chechnya.
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/russia/story/chechnya/istanbul.connection/
Mr. Stephen Schwartz has some important things to say on the issue on FrontPage.com:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=17378
Dear "neutral1":
You may or may not have noticed that I was replying to Schwartz in this very post. The "Islamic apologist" mentioned above is Schwartz, and the passage quoted is from the article to which you link.
Cordially
Robert Spencer
Dear Neutral
Bob Spencer was beng "kind" about his oblique reference to the infamous Stephen "Suleyman" Schwartz, the archetypical red diaper and ideological hitchiker who is in his latest incarnaton has found a "home" in Sufism, hence his alleged unabshed "hatred" of Saudi Wahhabism-the "real bad Islam" against the "real good Sufism." He acknowledges nothing about the historical excesses of the Sufi sect in Turkey and India and he was a self proclaimed booster of the late Bosnian Muslim PM, Ilia Betzebegovic, who was a recruiter for the Bosnian Muslim Waffen SS Hanjar or "Dagger" Division sponsored by the late Arab Nazi connection during WWII , the Haj al Amin Huseini-Herr Schikelgruber's house guest in Berlin perpetrating wholesale murder against Europe's Jews and Serbs. It s a shame that certaun credible organizations and editorial outets whom both Bob Spencer and I respect have opted to support Suleyan Schwartz to the extent of providing him with edtorial soapboxes under the guise that Schwartz represents an "opening" to "moderate Muslims."
Stephen Schwartz is not a credible source about islam beyond Wahhabism, as has been pointed out, he is not an uninterested observer. But I do think he has shown a high degree of knowledge and understanding about communism/leftism. He was useful in pointing out the evils of Wahhabism, but I think most of us have moved beyond that, and have identified the source.
++++++++++++++
Regards Russia-Chechnia, well, I don't doubt that islam and independence is the reason why Chechens are fighting. But that does not preclude Russian provocations or manipulations. While I may not like it, the fact is that if Chechnia is predominantly muslim and in opposition to Russian dictates then this is a legitimate case of fighting for self-determination. I understand this conflict goes back at least to czarist times, and I understand that islamic success there will have repercussions everywhere but..., I cannot completely condemn resistance to Russian domination.
And I cannot reconcile the fact that Russia, China and certain EU members seem to place a high-priority on having friendly relations with enemies of the U.S.A., so friendly that they help them in their quest for arms and WMD.
This seems to contradict the idea that they fear them.
There's also the matter of Ayman Al Zawahiri having been captured and subsequently released by Russian forces, supposedly by mistake in the mid or late 90's.
The fact is that in all the other former Soviet republics there has been no serious calling to account those who collaborated with the Soviets and perpetrated crimes against the people. No, actually the collaborators set it up so that they would still maintain control. The names may have changed, but the source remains the same.
++++++++++++
http://www.country-studies.com/russia/the-era-of-the-new-economic-policy.html
"Foreign Policy, 1921-28
In the 1920s, as the new Soviet state temporarily retreated from the revolutionary path to socialism, the party also adopted a less ideological approach in its relations with the rest of the world. Lenin, ever the practical leader, having become convinced that socialist revolution would not break out in other countries in the near future, realized that his government required normal relations with the Western world for it to survive. Not only were good relations important to national security, but the economy also required trade with the industrial countries."
"Blocking Soviet attainment of these objectives were lingering suspicions about communism on the part of the Western powers and concern over foreign debts incurred by the tsarist government, which the Soviet government had unilaterally repudiated. In April 1922, the Soviet commissar of foreign affairs, Georgiy Chicherin, circumvented these difficulties by achieving an understanding with Germany, the other pariah state of Europe, in the Treaty of Rapallo. Under the treaty, Germany and Russia agreed on mutual recognition, cancellation of debt claims, normalization of trade relations, and secret cooperation in military development. Soon after concluding the treaty, the Soviet Union obtained diplomatic recognition from other major powers, beginning with Britain in February 1924. Although the United States withheld recognition until 1933, private American firms began to extend technological assistance and to develop commercial links in the 1920s."
------
Some other interesting analysis:
http://www.crce.org.uk/brief6.htm
http://www.textfiles.com/magazines/ZIGZAG/zigzag21
http://mars.acnet.wnec.edu/~grempel/courses/stalin/lectures/NEP.html
http://www.seangabb.co.uk/freelife/flhtm/fl34elam.htm
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/coldwar/nsc20-4.htm
Possibly more interesting than Schwartz's eye-rubber on Chechnya on the Mar. 16 FrontPageMag.com site is the piece on Kosovo and how the world was taken in by the Kosovo Albanians. It appears under the rather unlikely title: The Jewish Albatross: Serbia, or something like that, by Julia Goren.
Goren draws interesting parallels between the Modus Operandis of the KLA and the PLO and asks how the American Jewish community could be duped into supporting the NATO bombing campaign by the bogus cries of genocide.
Goren draws interesting parallels between the Modus Operandis of the KLA and the PLO and asks how the American Jewish community could be duped into supporting the NATO bombing campaign by the bogus cries of genocide.
Posted by: waterdragon52 at March 17, 2005 12:38 PM
And it seams to have worked!!!
We can not cry over our mistakes we must pres on!!
We must learn from our mistakes and learn to not be deceived again!!
Seams it does not go both ways or there would be a huge outcry for what the arabs are doing in Africa a true genocide commited by mulsums??
No now is the time to press on when we win this war then we can review our mistakes??
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO VICTORY[FREEDOM] TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM OPEN THE WORLDS EYES TO THEIR THREAT LET NOT THE WORLD BE DECEIVED BY THEM AMEN
Here is a CNN article that is in my opinion a bit biased in favour of the Chechens. However its worth reading as it raises intersting facts, like Turkey's extensive sponsorship of the Jihad in Chechnya.
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/russia/story/chechnya/istanbul.connection/
Posted by: tranmere_rover at March 17, 2005 12:31 AM
An alliance rooted in history
To better understand the reasons behind the Turkish-Chechen axis, one only needs to look at Ottoman history. The Caucasian tribes fought the Slavs from the Russian steppes for centuries. With the Ottoman conquest, they found a natural ally against the Orthodox [Christian] imperialists -- the Ottoman sultan who resided in Istanbul, ancient Constantinople.
For many of the Caucasian peoples the Ottoman Empire offered not only a protective shield against Russian attacks, but also an ideological arm against Orthodoxy. Islam also served as a cohesive factor in a society of small tribes. In return, the Caucasian tribes for centuries strove to outdo each other in sending their most beautiful girls to join the sultan's harem.
Maybe we should be like them and get old allies Like Russia and do what we did to the Germans and just destroy all!! Then we can divide and clean up the mess most of the people that are left alive will be happy to that their slave shackles off!!! Remember the mulsum way is to divide and concur we have both made mistakes time to press on and address the real enemies!!! This is a mulsum move to take over the world plan and simple they will work with who ever will help them then stab them in the back as they have done throughout history this is their way!!
Time to be smarter then the savages and do a little whoop ass!! Working together will drive them out of business but that is not what we want we need to finish this they will lie in wait until they are strong enough again time to press on and take care of this problem because I LOVE MY SHORT SKIRTS AND THEY ARE WORTH FIGHTING FOR!!
The muslims ain't taking over America. End of story.
http://www.drudgereport.com/flash3rc.htm
REPORT: CHINA, RUSSIA TO 'REHEARSE INVASION OF TAIWAN'
Thu Mar 17 2005 11:02:09 ET- Drudge
Well, imagine that.
Ahem, famous last words.
The Moors ain't taking over Spain. King Rodrigo, King of the Goths, 710.
Never underestimate your enemies or overestimate yourself. Tsun Tzu.
BTW, Stephen Schwartz is correct about one thing, the Wahhabi's, but to discuss them and expose them requires one to take a deep hard long look at Mssr. George W. Bush and Co, family friends and business partners with the chief financiers of Islamism and Islamic Terrorism.
That CNN article posted by Catherine was disgusting...and, no, not in the way that I went after her earlier (I, perhaps, may have been wrong to be so venemous). "Striving to outdo each other to be better dhimmis"...repulsive.
Geoff