If Western countries don't make concessions to their Muslim populations, it's a matter of "bias" and "hate." But the concessions are a one-way street. From the Saudi Institute, with thanks to the Norwegian Kafir:
Washington DC - The Saudi Government said today it won’t allow non Muslims to seek its citizenship, Al-Watan newspaper reported today.Naser Al-Hanaya, Ministry of Interior Assistant for Civil Affairs, told Al-Watan that the citizenship law amended October 18 of last year won’t allow any non Muslims living in the country to seek Saudi nationality.
Al-Hanaya said “Islam is the religion and non Muslims won’t be allowed citizenship.”
Reciprocity in all things.
But Hugh, could the rest of the world's cultures in total ever possibly compete with the arrogance, cruelty, venality and hypocracy of the Muslim world as represented by Saudi Arabia?
You have a point.
Maybe Bandar Bush will straighten it all out.
How many "human rights" conventions do we have to withdraw from to quite simply ban Muslims from getting citizenship in the West? I know that sounds harsh, but it may become necessary.
I have been saying for all long time that the way Islam in general and Muslims in particular should be viewed and treated in the West is precisely the way Saudi Arabia treats other religions and cultures.
Sometimes the simplest way to understand another person is to see how well he lives by the Golden Rule. How long would you tolerate, or give the benefit of the doubt to, a neighbor who acted like a bully, but demanded to be treated with respect and understanding?
Islam and Muslims must become pariahs, at least until Saudi Arabia has freedom of religion, conscience and speech, which will mean forever.
BTW www.nojihad.com is now Challenging Islam
"Do unto others .... ". Haven't I read this before somewhere?
Shucks! Now I'll have to change my plans. Maybe I can go to Canada instead of Saudi Arabia.
Actually, the Saudis are terrified. One little-known fact is that anything from a third to a half of all human beings residing within the borders of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia are non-Muslim immigrants. While young Saudis scratch for work and go to mosques to learn how to hate, most of the vital work is done by Indians, Filipinos, and other non-Muslims, while specialist work such as nursing is carried out by tens of thousands of westerners paid enormous wages, but kept in enclosed compounds and occasionally targeted by the protection racket that does duty for a justice system in Saudi Arabia. If once all these immigrants realized their numbers and power, they could take over the kingdom, and they could certainly cripple it. So the Saudis inflict disabilities on them worthy of the old South Africa. Among other things, 70% of all sentences passed in Saudi courts are passed against foreigners, mostly Filipinos. The virtual enslavement of Filipino maids by Saudi and Gulf families is a well-known scandal here in Britain. It is a fact that while Muslim immigrants dream of colonizing the West, Christian and Hindu immigrants are the muscle without which none of the Gulf states could last for a week. And it is interesting that the Gulf Arabs, being able to choose between non-Muslims and Muslims such as Pakistanis and Egyptians, tend always to hire non-Muslims; evidently they make the better workers.
Ethelred:
I can't get into nojihad.com.
CGW
I don't believe this has much to do with America.I think it relates to the filthy kaffir work force(slaves) that actually runs the Saudi nation.If they refuse them ctizenship then it will help insure a constant state of Dimmhi for non-muslim workers.By denying them citizenship,they also deny them the rights of a Saudi citizen.
Saudi born muslims recieve their education from state run madrassas which teach mostly Islam and Wahhabism.There is very little real scholastic teaching.Because of this they have a nation of Saudi citizens that are well off but very poorly educated,to the point that they would be unable to run the country themselves were it not for the millions of foriegn workers who in many cases are better educated than their employers.
JLP
Sorry kj, the SA is upset with Bush for appointing people too harsh on their government.
They can keep their f*c@ing citizenship!
OT ... Did you read about the UAE ambassador attempting to make a "date" with a 13 year old on the Internet? He had been communicating online with what he believed to be a 13 year old girl but was in reality officer burly from the PD.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A8789-2005Mar4?language=printer
Kemaste,
The diplomat is just following his master Muhammad's perfect human example.
Diplomatic immunity be damned!
Kemaste:
It appears the diplomat likes older women. Mohammed liked them when they were 5 years old.
Kemaste,
Wow, the UAE apparently picks the lowest of the low (by Western standards) to be ambassador's for them. I wonder how much this sexual preditor paid for his diplomatic license to hunt little girls in America?
There should be limits to diplomatic immunity. Why aren't there?
f.g.
Of course the UN will convene a special meeting in order to issue a resolution of condemnation against this grave violation of human rights against...Israel.
When can we expect Jimmy Carter as well as the editors of the New York Times to weigh-in a side of Saudi Arabia? You know," As long as Israel continues to oppress the legitimate rights of the Palestinians, there can be no expectation of Universal Citizenship for the worlds poor..."
Sorry kj, the SA is upset with Bush for appointing people too harsh on their government.
What the hell are you whining about now, Gary?
Did you see the news about the por-Syria, pro-terror, pro-Hezbollah demonstrations in Lebanon? Guess they haven't heard that "Freedom's on the march."
Yeah, it's on the march alright. On the march right out the front door, down the street, out of town, and into the ocean.
Oh, but the good news is that we got the number one enemy of the terror-financers, terrorist trainers, and terror-financers of Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Kuwait.
Gary, the stock market is almost back up to where Clinton got it... have you dumped all your money into the market yet?
PAOLO
One wonders why Madam Cherie Booth/Blair, that stickler on Human Rights for Shabina Begum stays
ABSOLUTELY SILENT about atrocities inficted on Non Muslim slave workers in Saudi Arabia?? In fact this money grabbing Dame trumpeting 'Racial
Equality' and 'Equal Gender Rights' recently made a speech 'Praising' the status of women in Saudi
Arabia!! How low can you go in search of a buck to pay off mortgage of a million dollar property??
Off course she was speaking at a Saudi Conference
for a fat fee. If Blair and his minions are voted out I shall be celebrating with a bottle of Baileys...
kj~ what does your blather have to do with Saudi Arabia?
Here's a nice piece for you kj:
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/johnleo/jl20050308.shtml
As for those marches- hasn't that been going on for decades? At the behest of terroristic governments? Kinda like the million-mom march, in my OP. Remember, the organizer of which just got arrested for possesion of a gun?
You brought up the phrase 'FREEDOM IS ON THE MARCH!' to back your pessimistic, defeatist, we-didn't-win-so-we're-going-to-do-all-we-can-to-defeat-Bush-wherever-we-can attitude. Deal with it.
Didn't millions around the world, protest against apartheid in South Africa?
Why are people silent on how non-muslims are treated in muslim countries?
I will never understand the twists and turns of logic-defying stunts that people like KJ and Giaour constantly undertake to reconcile the irreconciliable: Hatred of Bush and contempt for Islam.
My own sister, who also dislikes Islam, is so consumed by her Bush-hatred, and SO INDIGNANT at my having voted for Bush, that when she sees a copy of my carefully-researched and cooly-written article, all she perceives is a rambling "screed."
In effect, there is no room left for analytical thinking.
What a waste!
No, I brought up "Freedom is on the March" because it was uttered by an intellectually lazy moron that can only "think" in sound bites.
Hugh Fitzgerald agrees with me that the "Freedom is on the march" mantra is a joke.... do you presume that your "faith-based" beliefs are more valid than what Hugh says?
The entire concept of freedom is anathema to Islam.... the proof of which we see more and more every day. The more "freedom" they get, the worse it gets for EVERYONE. The problem is that the goal for Islam is to make people as miserable as possible, so they resign themselves to a life of misery and concentrate on "storing up treasure" in heaven or whatever you call it. Just like Christianity.
More people convert = more misery for more people = more resignation to a crummy life = more conversions = more misery for more people =.....(the inevitable end is nuclear war.)
But the preachers and imams laugh all the way to the bank. And fools like you gobble it up and oink for more.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7038041/site/newsweek/
[they must've forgotten that "Freedom is on the march"...]
March 7 issue - When the kidnappers came for Zeena al Qushtaini, she was dressed, as one friend put it, "in the latest fashion." She wore a $5,000 watch, her hands were manicured and her hair was highlighted to accent her blue eyes. Many of her friends were women's rights activists, but few were as conspicuously modern as Qushtaini. She was a divorced, single mother in her late 30s who supported two children with a full-time office job. She also ran a pharmacy with her business partner, Dr. Ziad Baho.
It was evening at the pharmacy, and Qushtaini and Baho were behind the counter when six men in business suits burst in brandishing automatic weapons. The men wrapped duct tape across the mouths of Qushtaini and Baho, then took them away in a pair of SUVs. Relatives of the two captives waited for a ransom demand that never came. When the bodies were found 10 days later, beside a highway just south of Baghdad, Baho had been beheaded. Qushtaini was dressed in the long black gown favored by Islamic fundamentalists. A scarf covered her hair—something she never wore in life. It was bloodied from the single bullet to the side of her head.
The twin messages, of her life and her death, were unmistakable. There are a lot of women in Iraq who are looking forward to the freedom that Iraq's experiment with democracy promises them. And there are hard-liners who would kill them for it. Qushtaini was one of many prominent Iraqi women who have been slaughtered, apparently by Islamic extremists; 20 have been killed in Mosul alone, and a dozen more in Baghdad. Just last week the corpse of a female television presenter turned up with a bullet hole in her head. Raiedah Mohammed Wageh Wazan had been kidnapped by gunmen in Mosul on Feb. 20. Her husband decided not to hold a funeral procession after being warned against it by insurgents.
I know, I know Cathagary. "More lib'rul media defeatism! Waaaah!"
Morgane posted If Blair and his minions are voted out I shall be celebrating with a bottle of Baileys
Surely not Baileys. Stick to some good ale and then follow it up with a single malt. But I get the idea.
--------------------------
Reciprocity would be so wonderful. Would'nt it be nice that non-muslim nations denied citizenship to non-muslims. It would be even better if citizenship of muslims was revoked. After all, sauce for the goose....
Saudi Arabia is the world's most corrupt, inept, uneducated, bigotted and stupid country. In fact it is hard to call it a country in any form. It is difficult to come up with any reason why this country should actually exist.
As Saudis have a lot of unearned wealth, they assume that they actually deserve it, and are as a consequence supremely arrogant. Stupidity and arrogance is generally a fatal combination. I hope, that soon this evil country and its bigotted people are brought low, and its institutions and symbols destroyed and scattered to the winds. It will be some justice for 9/11.
Hugh, Succinct (this time!!!!; you better watch those long-winded sentences of yours!), and right on target (as always!). Policies such as these should give US politicians enough backbone to push through reforms denying Saudis citizenship (and even residency) in the U.S. On the micro level, in our own lives, we tend to treat co-workers and neighbors based on how they treat us. It makes even more sense to do this on the macro level, one nation to another.
Amazing,what arrogance and predictible response from Muslims suffering from denial and paranoia.
They actually believe Islam is so utopic
every non-Muslim wants to live in an Islamic
Nation with public beheadings for crimes,and
jail time for praising the Prophet Jesus from the Quran.
As for the Muslim women there,from what I've seen you'll thank them for making them cover their
faces,with all those centuries of in-breeding
it created and common appearence of a A-sexual
hominoid.
DP111:
Don't hold your breath: After 9/11 Bush had the best excuse in the world to move on SA, confiscate the oilfields and to chase the bastards out into the desert! Instead, he got really cuddly with them (especially with Bandar) and like all the others before him (Clinton, Carter, Reagan) I'm sure that he has already secured his 'donations' from the Saudis to build his own Museum, Mausoleum, Library (or what-you-may call it) Seems to be no way to avoid (or resist) the bribes and the influence of our 'staunch Alley' who already own most of our News services etc.
As long as we buy their oil at cutthroat prices we are actually trying to put the fire out with gasoline. And in case you haven't noticed: We are still fighting a war against 'terrorism'- (The Saudis have trouble finding a "definition" for that)
Nobody in government has so far openly accused the Saudis for promoting Wahabi-hate -Schools all over the world and although everybody 'knows'- nobody wants to know.
Strange 'New World Order...'
do you presume that your "faith-based" beliefs are more valid than what Hugh says?
*sighs* kj. You will never figure it out, will you, you total moron.
I am not one of your 'religous nuts' You worthless sack of shit.
Fuck You. By the time you figure out the simplest thing about me (like for example, actually come to understand some of the things I have said about myself), you will be retired and your kids worshipping allah.
I will Never stop posting links detailing what Your side is doing to undermine the efforts of people like Mr. Spencer.
You can shriek about 'bandar' Bush all you want, while the Saudis continue to buy into CNN and other major media who have proven track records in opposition to anything further right than Stalin.
To hell with you.
Liliputian.
Can you imagine if a similar thing happened in any Western country to "non Christians" - namely Muslims? Their Muslim population would riot, their embassies around the world would be besieged by white-pyjama-clad bearded demonstrators and women dressed like the grim reaper, carrying aloft placards decrying "racism". That country's nationals would be kidnapped overseas and beheaded. There would be pressure in the UN to impose sanctions - there would be hell to pay. AND yet Saudi does this, and for some bizarre reason, all is well.
Just goes to show how all Muslims are hypocrites with double standards.
It seems to me that the ancient Athenians wouldn't have had too many problems with the Gulkf Arab notion of citizenship--i.e., if you can't worship our gods, don't expect more from us than general protection of your life and property when it's convenient for us.
Kemaste, the UAE dip isn't the only one in his job category who's kinky and got into trouble for it. I once heard of a a certain Western diplomat--all of whose ancestors were Christians four centuries ago--who, in a certain generally poor country, had a bit of fun with a few little boys and got declared Perona non Grata for it. He later became something of a martyr for gay rights when his government was trying to fire him.
Of course, the man I mentioned came from a society still laboring under the ghosts of a harsh, unliberated, oppressive Calvinist past that wanted to keep sexual expression limited to the monogamous, heterosexual marriage bed (that thrice-accursed evil oppressor of women and gays!) rather than one whose holy prophet understood the sexual pleasure to be found in multiple partners, including the very young. However, I am confident that, given its hold on media, academia, and people desperate to be thought "smart", the subculture to which Western dip I heard about belongs will soon have its day in the sun.
I've reached the conclusion that the strict restrictions on anything even remotely sexual found in the Islamic world may be the result of a culture that both sanctions and sanctifies those male lusts harshly condemned in both Old and New Testaments--i.e., if you want your womenfolk, and even sons, protected from some nasty STD's (to say nothing of being sure that your heirs are really heirs produced by your sperm), you need to keep them under the most stringent supervision. I can't help but notice that Burton's translation of _The Thousand and One Nights_reveals a very raunchy side of the Dar-al-Islam that is as adulterous and full of sexual deviance as 18th century Europe or the late 1960's.
What sane non-muslim would want to be a citizen of Saudi Arabia? The entire country would collapse if not for the foreign work force. The irony of this situation is completely lost on the arrogant Saudis, many of whom resent the foreigners and want them to leave.
It has never occurred to most of them that they are completely incapable of maintaining the infrastructure of their own nation because they spend their lives practicing Islam and honing their jihad skills. I guess pious holy warriors could easily live without chlorinated water, imported food, electricity, and decent shelter. They survived brutal desert hardships for centuries without these creature comforts, as did their illustrious prophet. They would surely be happier if they were suffering the adversities of muhammad in a similar environment.
Saudi Arabia is an artificial, incongruous edifice created by oil wealth. Saudi Arabia began planning for its future in the 1960's, when they sent the first colonists to America to begin the slow but inexorable expansion of Wahabbi Islam. They sent imams and rabid Wahabbi acolytes to build mosques and schools. They proselytized, established "charities", infiltrated the U.S. military, state and local governments, schools, universities and every other institution in America. They invested heavily in the news media and pretended to be our good friends and allies.
I believe that the long term Saudi goal is to completely own America by the time their oil is depleted. They spent billions of dollars laying the groundwork to take over America and they have made considerable progress, but are still a long way from achieving their goal. 9-11 set them back a few years, but just look what they have accomplished. The millions of converts they expected did not materialize but they addressed that little problem by exporting hundreds of thousands of surplus Saudis, paying them handsomely to become members of the fifth column in America.
They finance C.A.I.R. and other subversive Islamic advocacy organizations like the Muslim Student Association, all of which work tirelessly to promote Islam, Shariah and the Islamic agenda.
Saudi Arabia is responsible for most of the current world conflicts, terrorist ideology, terrorist organizations, and the proliferation of the jihadist mentality. They are not our friends, but the money we pay them for their oil finances their diabolical worldwide agenda.
Why can't we harvest our Alaskan oil and stop paying them to destroy us? What are we saving it for? Why do we continue to enrich these neanderthal bedouins and put up with their incessant crap? I guess I just don't understand international diplomacy, economics and Washington's idea of prudent foreign policy. We give billions of taxpayers' dollars to our enemies, who in turn demonize us in their media and endlessly plot to kill us and destroy our economy. There are sleeper terrorist cells in America; hell, there might well be a vast jihadist army that has infiltrated the country through our unprotected borders. These fanatics are most likely steeped in Wahabbi ideology, compliments of Saudi Arabia.
As I understand the complicated "aid" fiascoes, we pay Egypt not to attack Israel. What do we pay the savage Palistinans for, to attack Israel? The money certainly doesn't buy us any accolades or affection; they hate us too. I guess I just don't get it and never will.
You are right Voltaire.
Why aren’t the Islamic theocratic states labelled as apartheid states (like South Africa used to be labelled). Lets face it that is what they are.
Where is the mass global movement against these Islamic apartheid regimes like what occurred with South Africa. There are numerous people like Nelson Mandela rotting in Muslim jails. So where is the protest music, solidarity, demonstrations, extensive media coverage, academics on all sides working constantly to discredit the system, world leaders enforcing sanctions and shouting outrage until the apartheid system is dismantled?
There just seems to be too many people out there who think that apartheid is unacceptable for white Christians to implement but much more less offensive for Muslims to use. This is what you can get from politically correct thought…you get justice for some and the acceptance of tyranny for others.
It is depressing to think that many people in positions of power and influence think that "All people are equal but some are more equal than others."
P.S. if anyone here has read "Animal Farm" you would know that the Saudis are acting just like the big corrupt pigs. Unfortunately unlike in the book I can't see the others on the Saudi "farm" (i.e. the Fillipino's and other guest workers) rising up in a revolution and deposing the fat, corrupt evil porkies.
Susanp:
If you continue to write more stuff like that above I have no choice but to threaten you with a serious invitation to Guam!
Well done! (I'll let you know when I'am going for my next visit!
(Believe it or not: There is a mosque there too!)We should plan a visit!
obl r us: The movie (Animal farm) is just as good. But like you correctly stated: Can't see the revolution in Saudi. The pigs reign supreme. The change must come, will come... just a matter of time!
Susanp:
If you continue to write more stuff like that above I have no choice but to threaten you with a serious invitation to Guam!
Well done! (I'll let you know when I'am going for my next visit!
(Believe it or not: There is a mosque there too!)We should plan a visit!
obl r us: The movie (Animal farm) is just as good. But like you correctly stated: Can't see the revolution in Saudi. The pigs reign supreme. The change must come, will come... just a matter of time!
I'm sure the lines of folks trying to get visa's to move to Saudi Arabia are just about as long as they were to move to Communist Russia.
Nothing to worry about, though, surely CAIR will highlight the bias and hate being legalized by the Saudis.
To Gary:
^5
From Linda
Susan, we don't drill thr ANWR because some environmentalist that never leaves the big city thinks the ANWR is a verdant green forest. I have heard people say that they would hate to see the forest destroyed, and how they like to fish. The ANWR is desolate tundra. The area needed to drill is about the size of 5 football fields out of the vastness of the area.
The caribou herds have actually increased on the North Slope where the oil fields are. I have a friend who worked there for years and said that the wildlife lay in the shade of the pipeline. Wildlife ADAPT to us and our intrusions. I am sure that there would be many agencies making sure that every thing is done right down to the letter.
Carolyn, Susan~ The ANWAR site estimates are that, at 1.2 million barrels per day, the oil would last around 10 years, and chop 8% out of US needs from elsewhere. That is not much but if we applied it strictly to Saudi Arabia it would cut there shipments to us by 25% over those 10 years. I'm sure they'd barely feel it as they supply other countries as well, but every little bit helps, yes?
If it were even possible to pump it at a rate that would produce 100% of our needs (an impossibility but one the enviros keep claiming), it would still last 10 months, far longer than their estimate of 3 months.
Just a few of the products made from oil.
Ammonia, anesthetics, aspirin, ballpoint pens, bandages, cameras, candles, combs, crayons, deodorant, detergents, dishwashing liquids, dyes, eyeglasses,
false teeth, fertilizers, floor wax, food preservatives, glue, golf balls, guitar strings, hair coloring, hearing aids, heart valves, house paint, ink, insecticides, insect repellent, life jackets, linoleum, lipstick, milk jugs, mops, movie film, nail polish, oil filters, panty hose, perfume, pillows and putty, rubber cement, rubbing alcohol, safety glass, shampoo and shaving cream, sunglasses, toilet seats, toothpaste, toothbrush, upholstery, vitamin capsules, yarn.
U.S. petroleum imports (crude & products) in January 2005 were 12,912,000 barrels per day.
1 barrel contains 42 gallons of crude oil and yields the following product.
Gasoline 19.4 gal
Distillate Fuel Oil 9.7gal
Kerosene- Type Jet Fuel 4.3gal
Coke 2.0gal
Residual Fuel Oil 1.9gal
Liquefied Refinery Gases 1.9gal
Still Gas 1.8gal
Asphalt and Road Oil 1.4gal
Petrochemical Feed stocks 1.1gal
Lubricants 0.5gal
Kerosene 0.2gal
Other 0.4gal
Total 44.6 gal
2.6 gal increase, represents “processing gain”
Estimated Crude and Products Imports
to the U.S. from Leading Supplier Countries
November 2004
1 Canada 2,094 barrels a day
2 Saudi Arabia 1,700 barrels a day
From : http://api-ec.api.org/industry/index.cfm?bitmask=001004000000000000#
Kj~ I would like to make formal apology to you, for my earlier, profane comments in this thread. And in previous threads. We have our differences and I have no idea if we will ever understand each other, but I shall strive harder.
My apologies, also, to all the rest of those who come here. I should allow myself to be sidestracked, nor speak to others in such fashion.
not allow. darn it! where's the coffee?
obl r us: They don't declare corrupt jihadi regimes to be the moral equivalents of the South African Apartheid state because there are a lot of Muslim countries with votes in the UN.
Further, don't count on the guest workers of the Gulf Countries organizing to strike for their rights. I've known a number of people who've worked their temporarily in various capacities, including Taiwanese, Thais, and Americans. These folks see SA as a place to work for a while, earn some good bucks, then leave; for even with a tolerant, immigrant-welcoming government, not too many people want to sink roots in a giant sandbox. Further, there are also Sa'udis who treat their employees with a reasonable degree of fairness, so foreign employees with the good fortune to work for such folks understandably don't want to rock the boat; while those who work for the rotten eggs are understandably frightened about making noise.
The headline should read "Non Muslims - and Palestinians - need not Apply, Saudis Say"
And while I am thinking about; it will Dr. Abdullah from Pakistan, not Mohammed the ditch-digger from Bangladesh who is accepted.