Saudi Arabia: Makeshift Hindu temple razed, three worshippers deported

Internet Toolbox for Islam-critics:

http://www.apostatesofislam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=661

The inability of historians of India, especially those that are or were HIndus themselves, to receive a proper hearing, to have their works used as textbooks, to be taken as seriously as they deserve to be taken, is a major problem.

Muslim propagandists, and their non-Muslim supporters, have successfully prevented the outside world, and even many of those who may be Hindis or of Hindu origin, from fullly understanding what Muslim rule did to India, beginning with the 60-70 million murdered Hindus.

It is unfortunate that thoroughly-modern young Indians or Indian-Americans or Indian-English are uninterested in this matter, or have allowed themselves not to become interested, or wish to signal to the outside world how thoroughly devoid of what they see as silly, nearly troglodytic attitudes of Hindutva, that they (those thoroughly-modern Hindus) cannot be accused of such, and to prove it, they will always denounce Hindu nationalists, no matter how reasonable those nationalists might be (they are not all Hitler-praising like a certain politician named Thackeray -- no relation to Becky Sharpe's creator). Some of those young Indians apparently find it unseemly to be too interested in the pre-Islamic history of India (they might start with A. L. Basham's "The Wonder that was India"), and in the United States, those of HIndu descent may, far from India, and even farther from understanding the past and present and future menace of Islam as an ideology, have Muslim friends and, as so many do, end up confusing personal charm or even kindness or even romantic entanglements with a Muslim for the sweet reasonableness of Islam itself -- and this in turn can lead to a tacit whitewashing of Muslim history.

Were I an Indian-American, I would like to find out about what Muslim rule. Why did Ibn Battuta report, with such bland indifference, on the mass-murders and enslavement of whole villages of Hindus in his "Rihla"? Why was it left to Sir William Jones, and a group of Englishmen, to redisover or help to rediscover India's HIndu past? What is the real origin of India's Muslims and of Pakistanis -- was it that Islam was simply so wonderful and attractive, or where there other reasons for conversion to Islam? How many Hindu victims were there of Islam in India? What happened to all the temples? (Hint: see the list compiled by Sita Ram Goel). What did the India's own historians write about the Muslim invaders and rulers, as for example in the 2-volume anthology edited, in the 19th century (and recently re-published) by Dowson and Elliott? Why have such historians as K. S. Lal and Sarkar not received their due in the outside world -- or even on Indian campuses? How were Sikhs treated by Muslims, including the most important early figures? What happens to Hindus (and Sikhs) in Pakistan today? In Bangladesh? In Kashmir? How much Muslim violence and terrorism takes place in India, and is neve reported outside of India? What happens to Hindus in Amsterdam? In London, Manchester, Birmingham, and Bradford, at the hands of their Muslim neighbors -- anything? Nothing? Why do Indian-Americans tend to uncritcially accept Muslim propaganda, and denounce -- without having read K. S. Lal, or Sita Ram Goel, or Koenraad Elst, or Sir Jahundath Sarkar, or a hundred others who have written -- any expression of interest in, or sympathy for, Hinduism and the Hindu past as something fit for only the most reactionary supporter of Hindutva?

Why is it only the most extraordinary and self-assured observers of Indian descent, such as V. S. Naipaul, who are capable of taking Islam's measure, without any fear of being labelled "Hindutva" fanatics?

These are questions to be asked, if not in Hindu temples and Sikh gundwaras, then privately, to oneself, just before ordering on-line a few books, to start with, by K. S. Lal.

And don't stop there.

Hugh, the problem in with Hindu's goes back to Mohatma Ghandi.

Ghanda's motivation was a sovereign and independent India, which would include the Muslim populations (however the Muslims had other ideas, even Jinnah was a secularist, and initially an ally of Ghandi).

With a sovereign independent India as his goal, Ghandi sublimated and ignored the Hindu experience with Islam, and that mindset and his actions became official policy. Maintained because outside of Indonesia, and excluding Pakistan, India is home to the worlds second largest population of Muslims.

There are many Indian sites on the internet which expose, record and try to counterpoise Muslim myths and the hidden history of the Muslim conquest.
I've bookmarked (and used in argument) quite a few.

Both considering that Muslims are the second largest group of Indians, don't expect much expose or history of the Muslim massacre of Indians.

The Hindu Kush mtns means Hindu Massacre,a testimony to the hundreds of thousands maybe millions that died in the mountains either under the sword of their Islamic conquerors or on the harsh travel back to Iran/Iraq where they were being hauled back (on foot and starving and ill clothed) as slaves.

BTW Ghandi also said, and this is poignant, "If anyone thinks that religion is not political, then they don't understand religion".

The memory hole in India is a consequence of Ghandi, and the ongoing struggle or need (which is vain in the long run) of keeping India solvent and whole.

The only reason that the Muslims have not become a majority in India is because the Hindus breed as fast and furious as the Muslims.

And look at the consequences of this unfettered and unrestricted breeding, the landscape and physical environment of India is wasted, there is not enough food, clean water or land for the Indians, they crowd into cities for jobs, live in poverty as a consequence and the supply of workers far exceeds the demand, with the consequence of economic devastation and mass poverty.

India is a gigantic hovel, from which all who can or have the means wish to flee, and they (Muslim and Hindu) Indians flee to America and Canada, while simultaneously our Republican government permits and promotes the outsourcing of American jobs.

Call catalog sales or computer tech support and chances are that the person taking the order or helping you is in Bangalore, earning (fat for them) wages of $1,000 a month. They even special schools in Bangalore which teach Indians how to speak and enunciate like Americans, and they use American names like Sarah and Ted.

Hugh

Your last post will be cut and pasted and e-mailed to every Sikh and Hindu I know.

That guy in India called Thackeray...his Anglophile father apparently changed his name from Thakre to Thackeray in tribute to the author of Vanity Fair.

Anyway, your comments are so true, and so insightful, that I am shocked at your critical acumen and knowledge, amazed that a non Indian like yourself can be so knowledgable.

By the way, Hindus and Sikhs in areas of England with large Muslim populations face constant low level harassment. This is never reported by the media for fear of upsetting the Muslim community and their representatives. Some University campuses are actively avoided by Sikh and Hindu students in the UK because of the activities of Jihadis there (isnt it amazing how in the name of multiculturalism the truly peaceful and tolerant non white population face marginalisation whilst the pernicious are elevated?)

This is an experience shared by Jewish students in England....The School of Oriental and African Studies has become an unsafe place if you are a Jewish student. I can see an alliance forming in the UK between Jews, Hindus, Sikhs and other minorities.

The most tragic and funny thing is how Hindus and Sikhs and Buddhist and Christian Asians are lumped in with Muslims by the mainstream of British society and media just because of their brown skin! How ironic and cruel.

So much for religious tolerance in Islam...

Hugh,
You have raised very valid points. Unfortunately
most American universities barely focus on India
during its pre Islamic period. Even supposed
"academics" seem to have no idea that India is not
a Muslim country. They seem to confuse the most
well known historical symbols of India like the
Taj Mahal that was built during the Muslim rule
as being representative of the pre British colonial
Indian subcontinent's sole culture.

The Muslim lobby in America has successfully
influenced the liberal arts and history
departments to mainly focus on Islam as the main
religion of South Asia. In no small part to the
money being poured in by Saudi lobby groups with
deep pockets. Their is no Hindu equivalent of CAIR
in the U.S. And if there was such a group formed,
CAIR would immediately denounce it as an
anti-Muslim right wing Hindu group.

Since Saudi Arabia is the declared repository of the true essence of Islam, can't the West imitate their holy devotion, and demand that they take all of the mosques now in the non-Muslim world and move them all back to this land of Allah?

As fair play?

And to show that they are not Christo-Hinduo-Sikho-Judeo-phobes?

Why should anyone outside of this bastion of Muslim benevolence accept what they know better than to accept?

ALL Mosques to Mecca, now!

The technology used at "Abu Simbel" in Egypt, in the 1960's (to relocate a gigantic ancient 'pagan' temple of the "Father of Grain" as the waters of the Aswan Dam threatened to submerge it), proves it can be done.

Take apart all Islamic structures outside of Arabia and return them to their sacred homeland.

It's what the Saudis, in their wisdom would do.

Who are we to argue with such brilliant theocrats?

BigSleep,
As we all know, the modus operandi of Islam is
to act as the injured party and wail and bleat about
discrimination and oppression in the secular
countries it initially enters. Exploitation
of liberal Western privileges are the easy
stepping stones (along with blinded
Western sympathizers) to achieving their
not so secret agenda.

And do you hear any sympathy for the non Muslims
in Saudi Arabia from American Academia ? They are
always inviting some Islamic "thinker" to
lecture at American universities about the
"plight" of Islam.

Aaaaahhh the tolerance of islam
Imagine if a Western country did this to muslims
the outcry it would generate.
Stoney silence from so called civil libertarians
Where is the MSM?
No where to be found of course,how dare those evil Hindus practice they're religion in hiding.
Yep,here we go again,same old story with the same old result.
Where are the Human Rights Organisations?
Where is the UN(useless nobodies)?
Strange how the Saudis do what ever they want with impunity yet the West tells the truth about islam and its to gaol with you.
As I said the same old same old ,AGAIN

The most tragic and funny thing is how Hindus and Sikhs and Buddhist and Christian Asians are lumped in with Muslims by the mainstream of British society and media just because of their brown skin! How ironic and cruel.

Zico That's so they can bask in the reflected glory when the hard working Asians who have so enriched our society are praised.

Granny, and I think it's also to make you feel like a creep for criticising "Asians" in the UK. If you say that Asians are causing problems in the UK, you inadvertently lump in the hard-working Hindus and others, and can be shouted down as a racist ignoramus. It's also useful to hide the true identity of many of your criminals. From many Brits here, I hear that much of the "Asian" crime is actually Muslims.

There is a CAIR type organisation for Hindus in the USA.

http://www.vhp-america.org/

I think a few things need to be clarified here.

Firstly India is not a "gigantic hovel" as Giaour put it.

Yes there is emmense poverty but the economy is growing rapidly.
The moan about off shore call centres should be seen in context.
Blame the greed of western countries and society.
If you want cheap products and services then you have to cut costs.
Thats why you get cheap mortgages, PC's etc.

If you want support from the hindu/Sikh/buddhist communities I think JW should contact people like VS Naipal and ask them if they would contribute articles, once the "racist taboo" disappears then people will take notice.

It is the hindu/sikh communities in the UK/USA that are prosperous and monied and educated.

Maybe JW could contact the VHP of america and ask for input.

However it should be remembered that the USA has just agreed to supply the paks with F 16's this is a bit insulting when you consider past and present events with regards to terrorism and nuclear proliferation.

If any one on this web site works for a company with a large IT dept may I suggest that the find out if there are any hindu/sikhs in it.
They could be approached to promote this weib site and also ID other hindus/sikhs.

Does Anybody remember that odious letter written by a labour minister in a moslem newspaper basically begging for the moslem vote ?

Well they have made lots of enemies because of it.
if anybody is not sure if a name is hindu/sikh contact me and I can help clarify the name.

Regards

AI