If calling the method for determining the beginning of Ramadan and Eid "primitive" gets 275 lashes, how many would you get for questioning Sharia provisions on jihad and dhimmitude? "Ministry Intervenes as Writer Sentenced to 275 Lashes," from the Arab News, with thanks to JJP Mackie:
RIYADH, 21 March 2005 - The case of a Saudi writer who was sentenced by a Shariah court in Riyadh to 275 lashes and four months imprisonment after being accused of being "corrupt" by members of the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice, has returned to the Ministry of Culture and Information yesterday after the intervention of the ministry, Arab News has learned.The case is the first of its kind in Saudi Arabia.
Dr. Ali Al-Mizeini, an Arabic language professor at King Saud University, was charged by the commission with allegedly questioning the religious institution's abilities and knowledge in an article written by him in Al-Watan newspaper. The commission was represented in court by another professor at the university, Abdullah Al-Barak from the Islamic Culture Department.
The accusers demanded that Dr. Al-Mizeini be tried according to Shariah for his writings. Dr. Al-Mizeini was later summoned to a court hearing....
The regulation issued by the minister of justice states that "whatever offends Shariah or Islamic ethics or contradicts anything in the Qur'an or Sunnah (the Prophet's sayings) or is an accusation of a person toward another which demands a religious punishment of lashes or imprisonment according to the nature of the crime is a matter that concerns public courts."
The regulation continues: "Public courts or primary courts which are given cases that deal with offenses concerning moral issues or attacks on Shariah that demand religious punishment should not transfer it to other concerned lawful bodies to look into it."
Judge Suleiman Al-Fantooh of the Shariah court sentenced him to a four-month jail term and 275 lashes....
Al-Mizeini's article angered many Islamists when he said that the method used by the Supreme Judiciary Council in determining the beginning of Ramadan and Eid was "primitive" that still relied on the naked eye's vision of the moon at a time where the crescent can be determined by telescopes as well by Saudi astronomers who are experts in the field.
Meanwhile, another Saudi writer is being tried by a religious court in the Kingdom for criticizing the commission in another Saudi daily, Al-Jazirah.
Abdullah Al-Bikheit, the writer, published many articles in the daily criticizing the approach of the people who work for the commission. Arab News contacted the writer who revealed his story. "In the beginning, I got a call from the police department to appear in the station to deal with a case filed by a person I did not know," he said....
"I later found out that 80 percent of those who filed the case were members of the commission who were angered by my writings in the daily," he said....
Al-Bikheit said that he criticized the commission in the Saudi daily as "any other government body that has its shortcomings." He said that he replied to the negative feedback to his articles in the letters to the editor column of the paper which did not "please the commission's members". He intends to publish a book with all the 17 articles he has published in Al-Jazirah.
Don't hold your breath waiting for that book to come out.
"In the Name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful..."
These mooslim barbarians are hopeless. I pity the wives and daughters of these savages.
Medieval savages sitting atop 33% of the world's proven oil reserves. Maybe allah does favor them?
Oops, accidentally posted this in the wrong thread:
I always take a perverse kind of delight in reading about the antics of the Commission for the Pursuit of Virtue and Prevention of Vice. First, because the name is like something that George Orwell might have made up. Second, because I am amused by the redundancy of the name. One of their p.r. flaks should, for the sake of clarity and effective communication, have advised them to pick either virtue OR vice and stick with it. Finally, because the name reminds me of another authoritarian body devoted to societal purity that ended up degenerating into an instrument for keeping the populace in line: the French Revolution's Committee of Public Safety. The religious Robespierres in Saudi Arabia might have given the Reign of Terror's architects a run for their money.
This is off subject, but you may find this email exchange interestin to sat the least.
Aslam,
Sorry, but for the life of me, I can't find a threat in my emails. Anger-yes, but threats - No.
But when it comes to threats the Koran if full of them, both explicit and implicit.
Your response to criticism of Islam is typical - silence anyone who does not agree with you and assure everyone that Islam is the religion of Peace (What a Crock!) Please let me know what the FBI says, oh, and Mr Sutherland as well.
In any Islamic state I would be dead now, but sadly in this country a man may say what he thinks without fear of retribution (or can he? - Maybe you should get CAIR involved too since they're always whining about how Muslims are mistreated in this country.)
A few excerpts from La Civiltà Cattolica (From the Vatican in case you didn't know). These excerpts may be lengthy, but they are certainly revealing and well worth reading...
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Thus, in all of its history, Islam has shown a warlike face and a conquering spirit for the glory of Allah. [...] against the "idolaters" who must be given a choice: convert to Islam, or be killed. [...] As for the "people of the Book" (Christians, Jews, and "Sabeans"), Muslims must "fight them until their members pay tribute, one by one, humiliated" (Koran, Sura 9:29). [...]
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But those belonging to the "people of the Book" are subject to the dhimma, which is a kind of bilateral treaty consisting in the fact that the Islamic state authorizes the "people of the Book" to inhabit its lands, tolerates its religion, and guarantees the "protection" of its persons and goods and its defense from external enemies. Thus the "people of the Book" (Ahl al-Kitab) becomes the "protected people" (Ahl al-dhimma). In exchange for this "protection," the "people of the Book" must pay a tax (jizya) to the Islamic state, which is imposed only upon able-bodied free men, excluding women, children, and the old and infirm, and pay a tribute, called the haram, on the lands in its possession.
As for the freedom of worship, the dhimmi are prohibited only from external manifestations of worship, such as the ringing of bells, processions with the cross, solemn funerals, and the public sale of religious objects or other articles prohibited for Muslims. A Muslim man who marries a Christian or a Jew must leave her free to practice her religion and also to consume the foods permitted by her religion, even if they are forbidden for Muslims, such as pork or wine. The dhimmi may maintain or repair the churches or synagogues they already have, but, unless there is a treaty permitting them to own land, they may not build new places of worship, because to do this they would need to occupy Muslim land, which can never be ceded to anyone, having become, through Muslim conquest, land "sacred" to Allah.
In Sura 9:29 the Koran affirms that the "people of the Book," apart from being constrained to pay the two taxes mentioned above, must be placed under certain restrictions, such as dressing in a special way and not being allowed to bear arms or ride on horseback. (Sounds like Nazi Germany to me) Furthermore, the dhimmi may not serve in the army, be functionaries of the state, be witnesses in trials between Muslims, take the daughters of Muslims as their wives, be the guardians of underage Muslims, or keep Muslim slaves (Islam still believes in and trades in slavery). They may not inherit from Muslims, nor Muslims from them, but legacies are permitted.
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And maybe this from one of the foremost Islamic scholars - From www.sistani.org:
The following ten things that are filthy in order of their filthiness according to Mr Sistani:
:
1. Urine
2. Feces
3. Semen
4. Dead body
5. Blood
6. Dog
7. Pig
8. Kafir (Thats everyone who is not a Muslim and that includes Mr Sutherland)
9. Alcoholic liquors
10. The sweat of an animal who persistently eats najasat [i.e., unclean things].
Being number 8 on the list places me, my children, my wife, my friends, and all that I hold dear worse than feces. How would you feel, Aslam?
I'm sorry, but that I consider an insult and makes me angry. Of course that makes you, Aslam, superior in every way.
I'm sorry, but Islam makes me sick! A religion that espews so much hatred should be wiped from the face of the earth!
There's a ton of stuff on Islam, all of it not very nice - especially to Christians and Jews. A lot of it is antisemitic (read Nazi-like) and disgusting to read.
I have taken this opportunity to carbon a copy of this email to your friend, Mr Sutherland, and posted these emails on the Internet.
AslamAbdallah@aol.com wrote:
Dear Mr. Sutherland,
It was nice talking to you on Thursday last. Your interview would appear in
the Muslim observer as the second lead story. I am forwarding you an exchange
of an e mail that I had with someone who read my article on the Internet. I see
in the last message an open threat to the American Muslim community. I wonder
if the Homeland security can initiate the investigation. It is e mails like
these that create problems for the country in such difficult times when we are
all trying to bridge the differences. The two e mails given at the top are the
e mail addresses I received the e mail from.
This is what Mr. Bill wrote to me in his e mail.
I am sending a copy of my letter to him as well.
I also plan to send a copy to the local FBI officials.
Thanks
E mails
His e mail
Dr. Abdullah,
I applaud your efforts to bring Islam into the 12st century, however I fear
that:
a) You will anger many Muslims and perhaps receive death threats from abroad
and domestically.
b) You cannot change the word of God (whatever that is).
I wish you only the best, but fear for your safety.
Bill Rowan
Inter Mountain Engineering
My E mail
AslamAbdallah@aol.com wrote:
Salam Alaikum,
I am not pleading to change the word of Allah. I would rather displease
people to please Allah. As far as this life is concerned, I believe that is
given
by God and taken by God. As long as I live, I am grateful to God for the time
he gives me.
Thank you for your advise and concern.
Aslam
His response
Thank you for the reply to my email.
We should all be grateful for every day we have, whoever grants that day to
us.
Your faith is obviously strong and I wish you well, but I fear there are
those within your religion that would subjugate women for their own gain. I stand
with you on equal rights for women, particularly in Islamic issues.
Pardon me, as I do not mean to show disrespect for your beliefs, but women
are not chattel, and anyone who thinks so is sadly deluded. even Allah (pbuh).
Islam stands in the way of progress for womens rights, and must change to meet
the realities of the 21st century.
You know that if you were in a Muslim country you would be put to death for
heresy, don't you? Have you received many angry e-mails from Muslim men?
I think you are a courageous and very brave woman to speak out as you have
done.
Personally, I feel no need for an omnipotent supreme being - but that is a
personal choice. To me, it's as Stephen Hawking said, "After the moment of the
Big Bang, there was nothing left for a creator to do." or as Carl Sagan said -
"We all die soon enough, and then we shall know for sure."
My clarification
h@aol.com wrote:
Greetings,
I am not a woman. I am a man. I believe that lack of understanding has
resulted in the subjugation of women. I believe that God (Allah) is for all,
men and
women. Allah does subjugates people to Him and Him alone. He does not want
people to subjugate others in His name. Islam is the religion that will bring
human civilization to a new level. We are passing through the temporary
crisis.
We will overcome it.
Aslam
His response
Aslam,
I apologize for the gender error, and meant no disrespect to you.
As for subjugation, I'm afraid that is what Islam is about. The Koran is
filled with so many hateful suras that it saddens me to think of it. Earlier
sura have been abrogated by later sura, and leave little doubt about what the
Koran says about women.
Women are chattel, to be used as you will, to be beaten when disrespectful,
to be put to death for adultery, to have their testimony valued at half that of
a man, to be kept from the eyes of men, to have half the inheritance of a
man,...on and on.
What other religion calls for the death of apostates? What other religion
seeks to control the minds of men, their government, and their laws? What of
the dhimmi in Islam and their status in Islamic society? Why could not Ms Wadud
hold her prayers in a mosque instead of a Christian church -and will she
receive death threats? This is a religion of tolerance?
What other religion says that to change the word of God is blasphemy,
punishable by death?
Aslam, I could go on for many pages, but suffice it to say that I despise,
no, I detest even the thought of Muslims in my country. Who were those people
dancing in the streets after the murder of 3000 of my countrymen? Who seeks to
destroy this great land of freedom, subjugate its people and replace our laws
with Sharia law?
My response
AslamAbdallah@aol.com wrote:
Dear friend:
I don't want to engage in tit for tit debate. I don't want to produce verses
from Old Testament or other religious scriptures that promote violence or
hatred. My understanding of the Quran is contrary to your understanding. I
find
in the Quran love and compassion and kindness and justice. To you is your
understanding and to me is my understanding. The real decision on whose
understanding is right will be done on the Day of judgment in the presence of
the Divine.
Aslam Abdullah
his response
Aslam,
There is no tit for tat debate when it comes to Islam. You either buy into
the whole nine yards or you don't. There is no changing of the words, only
blind faith.
Would you like me to refer you to specific hateful sura to show you what I
mean? The Christian bible has nothing to do with the hate spewing from the
Koran.
Kindness and justice? Are you kidding me? Why is Salmon Rushde in hiding?
Where were the Muslim helping hands on 9/11?
Who were the hijackers on 9/11, Hindus? Don't profess peace and love to me -
the Holy Koran tells you to deceive and lie until Muslim strength is great
enough to rise up and destroy the kufr. Kitman won't work here, Aslam.
My response
My dear friend,
I know the Quran from childhood. I teach it. I read it everyday. In my view
you didn't come close to understanding the verses that you are referring to.
I
read the verses in Arabic you read the translation.
Well, you are entitled to your opinion. You want to be judge, the attorney
and the law. You don't want to understand Islam the way Muslims understand.
The fact that 19 hijackers were Muslims does not proves only one thing. They
violated their religion.
Let us not judge the intention of others. I am as an American as you are. I
will not allow you to challenge and question my commitment to my country. If
God does not want you to see the light through Islam, it is your fate, not my
problem, my friend.
Aslam
His response
Aslam,
Ifthe hijackers violated their religion, the it seems to me that the muslum
community should police their own and rid us both of the radical element.
There seem to be two interpretations of the Koran, and all muslims say that
we must read the Koran in Arabic to understand it.
As for judge and jurry, no - I don't judge men except by their actions, not
their words - talk is cheap - you have to walk the walk, not talk the talk.
What the 19 hijackers do prove is that the muslum comminity has a real problem -
so take the hate literature out of the mosques and purge your religion of
those that would do me and mine harm.
Unless you do, the next time muslims attack my country there will be a
groundswell in America that will drive you underground and raze your mosques.
Do you want to see Sharia law here? Amputate a and for petty theft, whip
people in public?
I know our system is not perfect, but it's a hell of a lot more humane than
Sharia law.
Here's what goes into the making of a terrorist: continual and systematic terror.
Allah is the god of constant anxiety and its resultant stagnation -- conjured and mirrored by Mohammed, the archetypal Islamist terrorist and thieving opportunist.
Dr. Mizeini is brave beyond my ordinary comprehension. He convinces me (again) that we are, indeed, born free and deserve only to have our innate freedom nurtured and grown. He and his family are in my heart with encouragement and hope.
Unless you do, the next time muslims attack my country there will be a
groundswell in America that will drive you underground and raze your mosques.
I wonder what he thinks might happen? I guess if you had said "...there might be a ..." it would have sounded less threatening. I guess you have to understand that Muslim's in general seem to be an extremely paranoid bunch, and for good reason. Sharia law is a cruel taskmaster.
The anger in this country is festering and it is up to the Muslim community to reach out and mend fences, not the other way around. I mean really, just what does the American Muslim community think will happen if we are attacked by Jihadists again? Who can blame American's for being angry at a community that has done pretty much nothing but point the finger at someone or something else instead of owning the problem. Heal thyself. Heal thyself.
f.g.
Bill R. fascinating exchange. You did hold your own. Thanks for posting it.
And f.g. . right on .. how are we to interpret this paranoia if not in the usual ways? That is: Paranoia is always a projection of what's not admitted by the individual/collective onto anyone who is able to hold that projection. We don't need to hold it .. even though our religious tolerance might make it possible, it's not ours and we shouldn't take it. We do need to hand this stuff right back to the Muslims. It's their's. It's not ours. If responsibility doesn't start to get taken soon .. their prophecies of persecution will be fulfilled.. Big Time.
What an absolute moron the writer was for suggesting anything about complete idiocy to total imbeciles.
Myself, I always determine the end of EID the good old-fashioned way, by caliper measurements of the size of a month-old tick on my black dog's ear. And I then eat a shrimp-stuffed pork chop to celebrate, wash it down with a fine Navelle Cabernet, and, of course, clean up by rubbing kafir blood all over my face, go out and donate semen at a sperm bank, airmail my fingernail trimmings to Ayatollah Sistani, and finally eat dessert with my left hand - usually a croissant filled with brandied plums.
Telescopes, indeed!
The idolator!!
A little more on off subject, but you may find this email exchange interestin to sat the least.
Recieved another email from Aslam threatening to turn me in to the FBI.
I asked him for a contact name and email address at the FBI.
I also attached the following little dity:
"Those who stay in America should be open to society without melting, keeping Mosques open so anyone can come and learn about Islam. If you choose to live here, you have a responsibility to deliver the message of Islam ... Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth." - Omar Ahmad - co-founder of CAIR
BillR-
I wouldn't worry too much about the FBI.
They're still looking for who killed JFK, after 40 plus years.
They couldn't stop 9/11.
(Too damn dumb to hack into a terrorist's computer - the "20th hijacker" Zacharia Musawi, being held in their custory already in AUGUST 2001- because a mean old judge told them they had better not.)
And a guy named Osama is still making video postcards -although whether from Pakistan or Iran they couldn't tell you.
Just email your buddy Aslam and say that you'll report him to P.E.T.A.- for the way he and his brethren turn helpless animals into 'halal' foodstuffs.
And the S.P.C.A. for their slander against dogs.
And the dreaded N.P.P.C. (National Pork Producers Council) ...just for fun.