Peaceful religion watch: Wahhabi and non-Wahhabi Muslims discuss their differences in Dagestan. From the Baku Sun, with thanks to Nicolei:
A dispute that began over whether ancient pre-Islamic rituals can be included in prayer ceremonies has thrown the Caucasus’ oldest city into religious chaos.Hundreds of followers of two rival Muslim groups clashed over the weekend Derband, Dagestan, in what observers there said was ultimately a battle for control over the 7th-century Juma Mosque, one of the first in the region.
More than 20 people have been injured in a large-scale fight that took place after Saturday namaz (Mohammedan prayer) and lasted for an hour and a half, between traditionalists and members of the Wahhabite community, according to the Dagestani Interior Ministry.
Local ANS TV reported (from Derbend) that approximately 200 Wahhabites stormed in to the basilica-shaped Juma Mosque, Derbend’s largest place of worship, and tried to force the traditional Sunni prayers out. Meanwhile, the republic’s Interior Ministry press service told Interfax that approximately 300 supporters of the Wahhabite community seized the Juma Mosque. On the way there, they attacked passers-by.
The mosque was closed for several hours.
Afterwards, Russian TV footage from the mosque showed axes and bricks on the mosque floor.
Police detained 200 people, mostly Wahhabites, involved in the fight, in which 24 people, including four police officers, were hospitalized with knife wounds and other injuries.
Is this another case of Islamic incompetence? A rumble between machete wielding Hutus and Tutsis would have left at least a few dead. None the less, praise be to Allah they had no guns. Some one coulda gotten killed!
Just another day at the mosque, bricks and axes are the tools of islamic worship.
One hopes that this story does not turn out like the "Sunni militants take dozens of Shiites hostage" story. Now it appears that that story "may be exaggerated" (Read: fabricated)
Wahhabi's on sharing loot...
"On my honor(Allah)I will do my best,to take my share (jihad) and steal the rest." Allah is most merciful, compassionate and oft forgiving, but best of all, he shares the loot.
I could use a little loot myself. I have been trying to get loot from Yahweh for years, but his attitude is that he has given me enough already. Yeah but cold potatos and fried ice for dinner is not my idea of enough. Man cannot live by means of cold potatos alone, he needs dancing girls, and lots of them. Allah says, "loot is good". So if Allah, is the source of goodness then he is also the source of loot, and loot is the source of dancing girls. Bingo, we are on to something!!! So I looked to Wahhabi's, the true believers of Islam for an example.
The Wahhabis trying to violently evict other muslims from the mosque (as above) are just following Allahs directions, grab something and share it with your brothers, Allah getting 1/5th. That didn't work well for me, trying to follow Wahhabi methods, I tried to invade and violently take over a real small mosque, a monastary of one. The one guy inside was one tough bugger. Took my knife away from me and pummeled me soundly about the head and shoulders. Turned out he was a Hindu and I invaded his temple by mistake. The moral of this story is, Wahhabi methods dont always work, didn't work for them as above, and didn't work for me. Allah cant always be trusted to share the loot, and always check the address before you invade any mosques.
swami
To Allah and his apostle go one fifth of all booty and plunder. Muhammad as mafia godfather
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sira/12.htm
Then Abdullah, with his companions, the caravan, and the prisoners, returned to Medina , saying, One fifth part of our plunder belongs to the apostle of Allah.’ This was before Allah had made it encument on Believers to give up a fiftyh part of any booty to Him. One fifth of the caravan was set aside for the apostle of Allah, and Abdullah distributed the rest anong his companions.
From Shukris link to apostasy, where one would assume, to get a more watered down and Western friendly version on the punishment for apostasy.
A former kãfir who became a Muslim and then apostates (Murtad Milli) is given a second chance; if he repents, then he is not to be killed. But one who is born as a Muslim and then apostates (Murtad Fitri) he is to be killed even if he repents. His repentance might be accepted by Allãh but he still has to go through the punishment prescribed for his treason in this world.
God, what a despicable and vile religion islam is. In someways, islam is like the cosa nostra, though not as benign.
Fear of death is why muslims cannot leave their religion. In someways I feel real pity and sympathy for muslims, trapped in a 7th century ideology, with no escape except through death. No wonder they welcome death.
This is most definitive proof that Wahhabism has spread its pernicious influence (thanks to Reagans use of Osama and the Saudis in Afghanistan to fight the Russians) into the Caucases and beyond.
Iran, is Shi'ite, a Mullahcracy in which non Shi'a are truly dhimmi's, but Iranians still practise pre Islamic customs, such as Naw Ruz (No Ruz) the Zoroastrain New Year.
Bosniaks, until the Balkan war, were for the most part titular Muslims, but the influx of Saudi financed mujtihadeen changed all of that, and Islamic fundamentalism (Sunni Wahhabi style) has become more pervasive in Bosnia.
Now if the West were to stop buying Saudi oil, or invade Saudi Arabia, kick the Arabs completely out of the Western part of Arabia where the oil is produced (eliminates any chance of terrorism or sabotage), then maybe we could win the war on terrorism by drying up it's funding source.
Don't think our President would care for that though, considering the family is so close with the Saudis.
Beagle:
I note that you see a similarity with mohammeds ideology and the mafia. There is some similarity, particularly on issues as
1. Loot and plunder and its division
2. Punishment for leaving the cosa nostra or islam.
3. Views on the role of women - though the cosa nostra is far more enlightened.
It may well be that the cosa nostra, which arose in Sicily, got these traits from the arabs, as Sicily was long occupied by the saracens.
I'm sure historians will soon enlighten us all, on these hesitant propositions.
Well, if a bunch of Klansmen invaded my church one Sunday and we knew we didn't have any effective government to protect us, maybe I'd fight back, too.
Well, Giaour, maybe Reagan was a dope for trying to tell the Soviets, "Look, we can pee in your yard, too, if that's the game you really want to play."--after all, how was stupid old Bonzo to know that that mighty bulwark of liberated science raised against primitive superstition and jihad was so rickety and rotten that a bunch of illiterate Afghan goatherds chanting "Allahu Akbar" at it, ruined Nicaraguan farmers taking up arms against its client, and the Polish working class chanting Ave Marias at it would knock it over?
But, given the sort of environmental damage prevalent over every part of Eurasia where scientific socialism ever held sway (or still does), are you sure Old Bonzo was wrong? I mean, at least now Russian and Ukrainian people are allowed to talk about what misguided development schemes have done.
Ahhhh ... the Religion of Peace. All together now ... Kumbayah My Lord, Kumbayah.
Don’t be fooled this is a cleverly written article designed to make you think that the Wahhabites are the real problem and not Islam and the koran in general. Islam is the real problem not some sect of Islam. If they call themselves Wahhabis or pink grapefruits it won’t change what is in the koran and hadith.
As long as they kill each other,it`s ok.
Oh, I'm sure this was just a
"SMALL" "MINORITY" OF EXTREMISTS
"Adherents of militant Islam account for some 15-20 percent of the Muslim world..."
www.meforum.org/article/168
Just part of the tiny minority who hijacked this great peaceful religion.
/yeah-right
Islam Questions & Answers
www.islam-qa.com
Question Reference Number:: 10867
Title: Who are the Wahhaabis and what is their message?
Home > Inviting others to Islam > Calling Muslims to Islam >
Question:
i have recently come to islam and people have told me to stay away
from wahabis, who are they and wht do they preech?
Answer:
Praise be to Allaah.
It is obligatory upon the Muslim to follow the Messenger of Allaah
(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), according to the way of
the righteous /salaf/ who followed the guidance of the Prophet
(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), the Sahaabah and those
who followed them ? may Allaah be pleased with them all. These
people are called /Ahl al-Sunnah wa?l-Jamaa?ah/ (the People of the
Sunnah and the Community). Everyone who follows the way brought by
the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)
is one of them. The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of
Allaah be upon him) brought the message of Tawheed (absolute Oneness
of Allaah) and rejection of /shirk/ (polytheism, or association of
others with Allaah); he called people to worship Allaah alone and
none other. With regard to the word ?Wahhaabis?, some people use
this word to refer to the message of Shaykh Muhammad ibn ?Abd
al-Wahhaab ibn Sulaymaan al-Tameemi al-Hanbali (may Allaah have
mercy on him), and they call him and his followers Wahhaabis.
Everyone who has any knowledge of the movement of Shaykh Muhammad
ibn ?Abd al-Wahhaab (may Allaah have mercy on him) and his message
knows that he sought to spread the message of pure Tawheed and to
warn against /shirk/ in all its forms, such as attachment to the
dead, or to trees and rocks, etc. In his ?aqeedah (belief), he was
following the way of the righteous Salaf and the Taabi?een [i.e.,
the earliest generations of Islam], as is indicated by his books and
fatwas, and the books of his followers among his sons and grandsons
and others. All of these books are in print and are in circulation
among the people. His message was in accordance with the Book of
Allaah and the Sunnah of His Messenger (peace and blessings of
Allaah be upon him). Wahhaabism is not a new way or a new school of
thought; rather it is a call to Tawheed and the revival of aspects
of the religion that had been forgotten. What you have to do is to
beware of those who warn you against the Wahhaabis, because they are
warning you against following the truth and the early generation of
this ummah. Applying the word ?Wahhaabis? to those who adhere to
correct belief and warning people against them is the way of the
ignorant and biased. We ask Allaah to keep you safe and sound.
See /Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz/ (may Allaah have mercy on him),
3/1206; see also Question # 12203. And Allaah knows best/
Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid (www.islam-qa.com)
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For a little perspective, change the names of the fighters from "Wahhabi Muslims" and "traditional Muslims" to Buddhists and Moonies, -or Bahais and Hari Krishnas, -or African Methodist Episcopalians and Southern Baptists and see how incredible and ridiculous it would sound. Kicking and screaming over the altar, wrestling with crucifixes, and trying to evict the original congregation.
But, when it is one segment of this 'religion of peace' battling another bunch - in their own mosque- it is becoming completely passe.
(Almost a 'Dog bites man' level of story.)
And Islam, that's not a good sign.
Even the Northern Irish have finally come out of their hysterical religious vendetta nightmare.
I never thought I'd say this, but Muslims need to emulate the I.R.A.
Those paragons of reason, civility and tolerance.
Here in Taiwan, when people have a Bai-bai in honor of Ma Zu (媽祖=Sea Goddess of SE China--you figure out why she's important to A Chinese people living on an island); there have been riots and gang fights with bats and swords as the image is paraded through certain streets. I've never seen any reasons given; although it has been reported.
However, I see the point of several posters above re Islam, since there is a long history of sectarian violence in Islam and a hard-edged concept of jihad.
Religion of 'Pieces' demonstrates tolerance and compassion with axes,knives and bricks! Wowee!! Makes you wonder what happened when Muhammad had a 'bad hair day'...
Giaour,
Did it ever occur to you that perhaps the Soviets shouldn't have invaded Afghanistan in the first place? Or does your knee-jerk so high it hurts your brain to think back past 1981?
A peek into the crystal ball. If Islamics ever get their fantasyland of global Islam, they stupidly think everything will be beautiful and peaceful. LOL! They can't even agree amongst themselves. Fighting over who's more Islamic than the other guy. Like fighting over whose willy is bigger. Pathetic and childish.
It is a shame to read about this, and shame on those perpetrators on this.
There are three things here:
1) Use of non-compliant rituals within Islam.
People always complain about the number of rules (too many) and strict following ordained within Islam. The prayer mechanisms, ceremonies and rituals are very clearly defined within Islam. I fail to see the need to worship Allah (swt) in rituals using non- compliant with Islam. Why is there a need for this, clearly this needs tackling.
2) Tackling the issue and “getting the message across”.
How does one do this, in a sane manner, people just see red when it comes to beliefs.
As the prayer mechanisms are clearly defined it is only a question of showing this within the Quaran, Sunnah and Hadidths, let the imams deal with it….that’s what they get paid for…..let them earn it…..people will see the error of their ways and change…albeit slowly.
I certainly don’t agree with the with the Wahhibic non-tolerant axe-handling mechanisms to “get the message across” especially as it is easy to get access to the correct answers.
3) Acquisition on the Juma mosque.
This has just been hyped up, nobody wants to see forcible or enforced access to the house of Allah, particularly one of such historical significance.
In concluding, people need to show rational thought and keep a hold on their emotions, they need to see the bigger picture.
This picture is simply to promote Islam as THE global brand of religion through peace and dialog. These people do Islam a disservice and affect fellow Muslim families ….something that is forbidden within Islam anyway.
Beagle:
I see Giaour hasn't exactly taken Spencer's not so subtle hint (dated April 16/05) about where to take his postings (not to mention his egregious "farmers' apostrophies").
Waterdragon
I did post a reply to your question on the CF&CC talk yesterday. Not a definitive answer to your question however.
The next time the old women of the Ladies Fellowship make unmerited complaints about how the Mothers of Toddlers washed up the tea cups after the playgroup, while I smile sweetly, turning the other cheek, pouring oil on troubled waters, and turning away wrath with soft words, I will remember the tactic above and praise the Lord that the parish hall is not equipped with sharp edged weaponry.
As long as they kill each other,it`s ok.
We should perhaps send them more axes and knifes.
Medieval behaviour like this is pretty scary. I don't see how anyone could think this is a religion of peace. I don't see how people consider it a religion at all.
f.g.
Ahhhh ... the Religion of Peace. All together now ... Kumbayah My Lord, Kumbayah.
Posted by: Mentat at April 17, 2005 08:50 PM
ROTFL ROTFL!!!
Gold Star for you Today!!!
Part of the American Tribe
Squirel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM OPEN THE WORLDS EYES TO THEIR THRAET LET NOT THE WORLD BE DECEIVED AMEN