Federal Jury Convicts Islamic Scholar

"Al-Timimi's lawyers have said he only counseled young Muslims after Sept. 11 that they might be wise to leave the United States because it would become difficult to practice their faith in this country."

Well, yeah. Practising Jihad in the days immediately following 911 probably would have been difficult.

Everything must go alright.

Al-Timimi's lawyers have said he only counseled young Muslims after Sept. 11 that they might be wise to leave the United States...

Well, he had it partly right. Now go.

I would like to see just one of these guys stand up for what he really believe and say, yeah - this is what I did and here is why...

Coward.

Moose

"...Al-Timimi's lawyers have said he only counseled young Muslims after Sept. 11 that they might be wise to leave the United States because it would become difficult to practice their faith in this country..."

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

This is my first time posting here, so please bear with me. The enclosed article should be read by anyone concerned about the security of their country and the world in general, this is part 1 of 2. I will post part 2 when it becomes available.

Brotherhood in the Shadows

By: Adel Guindy, Egypt

Part 1 of 2
Many had wondered about Ben-Laden’s adamant denial of any responsibility regarding the 9/11 events, before he finally reversed himself in the tape broadcast in December 13, 2001.
It is not beyond his character to have lied then, but some Western Intelligence Services are reported to believe that rather than Ben Laden, who would have been hard pressed to organize and lead such an operation from his hideout in Qanadahar, it is more plausible that Ayman Zawahiri was the real mastermind. Zawahiri, a medical doctor who grew in Egypt through the ranks of the Muslim Brotherhood, would have used the Brotherhood’s nebulous international network as a facilitator for contacts and logistics. Having done the job behind the back of Ben-Laden, he would not have had a problem to manipulate and, a posteriori, explain to him the ‘success.’
Indeed, while Ben-Laden enjoys some charisma that helped his media success, he is a person with rather limited intellect and abilities. Someone else understood that and exploited it: Abdullah Azzam, a Jordanian ‘Brother,’ who had met him when he was still a student the King Abdel Aziz University in Saudi Arabia. As ‘Osama’ indicated his admiration of the Brotherhood and their challenge to Hafez el-Assad (in the Hama events of 1981 in Syria), Azzam saw in him a (rich) person who likes absolute idealisms, and invited him to join jihad in Afghanistan. He managed to convince Ben Laden of creating a ‘services bureau’ (maktab al-khadamat) whose task was to search for, and attract, volunteers from Egypt, Saudi, Pakistan etc; and to establish training camps for mujahideen in Afghanistan. Azzam settled in Pishawar in 1984 to personally oversee the activities of the mujahideen; thus becoming the real founder of the first ‘international of jihad,’ with the support of the Brotherhood and the League of Islamic World.
The experience left its deep marks on Ben Laden, who considered Azzam his guide and teacher. He became so convinced of the importance of jihad that he established in 1988 al-Qaeda (the ‘Base’) to further the implementation of the guide’s ideas. Azzam was assassinated the following year (not clear how, even though some suspect Zawahiri of plotting it). Ben Laden lost the Brother ‘guide’, but fell under the influence of the Brother ‘doctor,’ who, over the time, became the actual executive (or CEO) of al-Qaeda, while keeping for Ben-Laden the role of a chairman (and CFO!).
Abu Musaab al-Zarqawi is another Brother from Jordan. His notoriety as he leads the main ‘insurgency’ in Iraq, and his ferocious and bestial bloodthirsty need no further elaboration. His origins, and links, with the Brotherhood were only emphasized when some of those related to Islamic groups were surprised that the French authorities failed, during the crisis of the two journalists who were kidnapped in Iraq in 2004, to approach the Jordanian Brotherhood for help, as they are judged to be ‘the only ones who could influence Zarqawi.’
Another famous Brother is Khaled Sheikh Mohamed, considered as one of the masterminds behind 9/11 and personally responsible of kidnapping and slaughtering Daniel Pearl of the Wall Street Journal, in Pakistan in March 2002. He was born in Kuwait in 1965 in a pious family that became acquainted with, and strongly influenced by the thoughts of, some Brothers who had escaped Egypt in the early fifties to Kuwait. He later moved with the family to Pakistan, where the father worked, and then went to the US in the eighties to study engineering. On his way back he stopped by the Philippines and helped organize some terrorist and separatist groups. He then proceeded to Pishawar, where Ben Laden met him and admired his organizing abilities and jihadi thoughts, typical of the Brotherhood; and quickly occupied a leading post within al-Qaeda. He was arrested in Islamabad, Pakistan, in 2003 with several documents in his possession. (Notice that his nephew is none other then Ramzi Youssef, who is currently jailed in the US as a result of his role in the 1993 attack on the World Trade Center).
Omar Bakry, the Brother from Syria and the founder of the Muhajireen group, works out of Finsburry suburb to recruit Muslim British youth to join jihadi training camps. Like the other Brothers, he is a master of double speak.
Fadi Itani, who runs the Islamic Welfare (one of 400 associations grouped under the ‘Islamic British Council’) would not confirm whether he was a ‘member’ of the Brotherhood. He considers that al-Azhar and the Brotherhood in Egypt are ‘victims of the political situation in the country: They are denied the right of action, whereas democracy means allowing them to establish the kind of ruling system we want.’
One should not forget Tarek Ramadan, the grandson of Hassan al-Banna, the founder of the Brotherhood, and a shining star of propagating the Brotherhood’s ideas, with a special talent for evasion and elusiveness.
There are many others, including even some European converts who turned into Islamists, such as Luke, an Irishman who converted in 2002, and who usually strolls in the streets of Finsburry in his ‘Pakistani’ dress and red beard. He dreams of immigrating to a Muslim land “..in order to deepen (his) ability to become a ‘true Muslim’ and afterwards… may join the jihad.”
Thus we find in the European suburbs such Brotherhood discourse, which subjects everything to polarization: the world, between the ‘Islamic’ and the ‘infidel (West)’; Muslims, between the ‘true’ and ‘false.’ Without any exaggeration, they are the inventors of the idea of the civilizational clash.
***
Whatever the topic of discussion was with one Islamist group or another, and of whatever inclination it may be; the reference is always the Brotherhood and its ideology. This unanimity includes those who passed through the organization’s branches in Syria, Jordan, Egypt etc.; or those who ‘graduated’ through the European suburbs.
Ben Laden might have his own revengeful agenda against America, for dropping him after the fall of the Soviet Union; or against the Saudi royal family for allowing the American forces to tread the sacred land of Arabia. But Zawahiri, Zarqawi, Qaradawi and other Brothers, hold a long-term agenda aimed at imposing the Islamic rule, the world over. Their strategy includes terrorism as well as political activism and propaganda, as means to reach the ultimate goal. All this makes the Brotherhood more dangerous to the West, indeed the world, than Ben Laden. They have turned into a formidable international organization, with cadres who excel in double-speak and who further understand the Occident and its weak points way more than how the latter understands the ‘Orient’. Their strength is political, religious and economic; and must be taken seriously.
The danger of the ‘Islamist Fascism’ (to use the expression of Rachid Bougedra) does not only threaten the Western democracies, but also the peoples of the Islamic world; the first victims. One Egyptian journalist (who fears disclosing her name) says that “unless the government moves to do so something, Egypt will face within five to ten years [how optimistic!] a Sunni version of the Iranian revolution.”
On the other hand, one may find certain Brothers who occasionally object to al-Qaeda’s acts. This would be nothing more than part of their usual duplicity, or stemming from fear that certain (terrorist) acts would threaten to undermine their achievements. One Brother says that “today, they are capable of jumping to reach the rule in many (Islamic) countries; but out of concern about their ultimate goal, they still seek some political backing. They, hence, need to further develop their political speech in the right ways…”
The book titled ‘Muslim Brotherhood in the Shadow of al-Qaeda’(1) includes a discussion with a senior personality with the French Intelligence services (RG), who urges the specialists to write more about the issue of the Brotherhood, as this could, hopefully, ‘awaken the politicians.’ He goes on to wonder whether the Western societies need a major catastrophe before they start to move. He ads “Let’s not deceive ourselves, for we are already in a state of war; even if this were not entirely clear to the eyes..” Isn’t that some kind of hyperbole? “Not at all” he replies. “I am talking about the reality… The Third World War is going on, without being ever declared. It concerns civilian populations, in their morale, their certitudes and, occasionally, their bodies… We must wonder whether our intelligence services are (fast enough) adapting to the realities..”
He adds something of extreme importance: “There is but one historical reference to which over 80% of Islamists in the Sunni world accord: the Brotherhood.” He further adds that “..even if most Islamists may not bother to be members, they have been profoundly marked by the Brotherhood’s discourse and ideas of Islam. This almost resembles the approach of the Soviet Communist Party, which had a very limited membership, but was the one to define the lines of action (for the parties) the world over. The influence and philosophy it carried was far more important than the individuals. And that is exactly what we find here..”
Al-Qaeda is, hence nothing more than a ‘mark’ or ‘franchise’ for terrorism. But for its ideology and the ‘distribution network’ it relies on the Brotherhood’s organization. In order to attract volunteers, there is need for an appealing message: jihad. The message is then spread through the nebulous network of the Brotherhood. The penetration is also done in a targeted manner; e.g. focused on some of the sub-cultural groups in the societies, using a persuasive discourse. It then becomes only a matter of time and money (provided by Saudi and Gulf sources), before convincing those targeted. Abolishing the intra-European borders has vastly facilitated the movement of people and money and the ability to penetrate the European societies.
___________________________________________
1- ‘Frères Musulmans, dans l’ombre d’Al-Qaeda’, Emmanuel Razavi, éd. J-C Godefroy

and lawyers wonder why most people cant stand them....another poor excuse for human beings....im sorry, i know as an Anerican citizen i am allowed, and its my right, to be represented by a lawyer, but where in hell does some scumbag Mulsim cleric, who isnt probally even an American citizen, have ANY AMERICAN constitutional rights???....i was born in this country, third generation American, and i bet i would have a hard time getting a lawyer to represent me if i needed one, and yet some greasy lawyer will represent a Mulsim who would kill him as fast as anyone else....lawyers=IDIOT

Many thanks 'middleastern' for you excellent post.
That should be on the front of every newspaper in the western world.
Our reluctance to acknowledge the world war we are currently involved in is curious, but likely is based on our leaders belief that we can win over huge numbers of 'moderate' or 'modern' moslems, thus avoiding a 'clash of civilizations' or a religious war.
Time will tell, in the meanwhile the flood of muslems into the western world would seem, to me, to undermine our resistance to islam, especially in democracies where ' a vote is a vote'.
In the current Brit election, all three major parties are kowtowing to the substantial muslim vote, which is especially sought after because of it being in many 'swing' ridings.

Got another one! Yes! (pumps fist in air)

Thanks Middleastern for your excellent post.

dby posted:In the current Brit election, all three major parties are kowtowing to the substantial muslim vote, which is especially sought after because of it being in many 'swing' ridings.

Mr Blair, as ever mindful of the muslim vote, has given in to Muslim council of this and that, to allow postal ballots to any who seek it. This has led to a huge increase in application for postal ballots, particularly in Asian (read muslim) areas of the country. And as predicted, postal ballots are already showing fraudulent practices. A Bradford muslim councillor (Conservative), has already been caught out. This man claims he has 13 in his family + 12 in another property.

Quite apart from electoral fraud, there is an issue that has not been considered so far in the issue of the postal ballot. Many Muslim men do not regard that women should have any say in matters such as politics. It seems to me that what is likely to happen, is that the muslim male head of the family, is going to vote for all the women in the family in the postal ballot. This maybe perfectly legitimate, but goes against all that is fair about an election. A clear case of not just debasement of the electoral system, but the disenfranchisement of the very women (muslim), who should have had it.

The irony is that muslim women in Iraq now have the vote, but have been very likely deprived it in Blair's Britain.

1 down 3 million to go

First time poster, and new member, so please bear with me.
Let me tell you about myself. I'm a 30 something male, professional, educated, etc..and conservative for longer than I can remember.
But i'm an american. i have faith in the american legal/justice system. al-Timimi will get what he deserves.

I am amazed at the responses on this website. OUTRIGHT racism, OUTRIGHT nazi sympathy. No wonder we as conservatives have a bad rap- because people commenting leave responses that paint a portrait of shotgun toting,uneducated, tobacco spitting hicks.

What happened to our traditional values such as strong national defense, free enterprise, smaller government, AND secure borders as well?

For the moron below who said something to the effect of 'some cleric who probably wasn't even a citizen'- guess what bubba? he had a phd from one the top universities in washington, dc. get some sense in your head,READ, and research issues before you just blast off at the mouth like michael "i don't have my facts straight" moore.

Use some common sense. Let's reap the benefits of the november election and make some needed political change(tighter immigration, tougher legislation for terrorist criminals,beef up national security and law enforcement).
let's do this the RIGHT way, the american way; and not be confused with nimrods from the kkk.

"Judge Leonie Brinkema agreed to allow al-Timimi to remain free on bond pending his sentencing in July. Prosecutors had argued that federal law required the judge to immediately revoke bond when convicted of such serious charges, but Brinkema said the law allows her discretion "when there is a reasonable basis for reversal" of the convictions on some counts."

Thanks for nuthin'
Judge...

Judge my butt...

Commonsenseforall,

What "outright sympathy for Nazis"? What "outright racism"?
What the hell are you talking about?

Geoff

DP111

Its not just the man in Bradford. Major voting fraud has taken place in Birmingham and Preston, all by Pakistani Muslim men. One of the judges said it was the biggest example of voting fraud and corruption seen in this country since the Victorian era. A couple have been thrown in jail, more will follow.

Muslims know they are important because of their numbers, and they put Islam at the front of everything. You dont see Hindus or Sikhs using these kinds of tactics in British elections. Just look at the politics of Pakistan, dictatorial, feudalistic, Mullah rule. They have imported this into British public life, and nobody is joining the dots and saying this.

OT,for those that followed the Canadian story about the Islamic school that promoted the essay from a bot that wrote about "Killing Jews",below is the update and as I predicted the Provincial Goverment has absolved the School of any blame.
Gerrard Kennedy originally had to be shamed into doing something about it since he's the Education Minister,but with Muslims now outnumbering the Jewish population we can expect more of the "Bowing down to Allah" by Western politicians
that only want to stay in power.
Jihad Watch has a posting of this Essay issue in the archives,I think it exploded during February.

http://www.canada.com/ottawa/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=c09db75a-7f5f-4ecc-9560-01294fc8af96

Commonsense is on the right track. Much of the commentary on this site is embarassing, and has actually caused Robert Spencer a great deal of grief (remember the Armanoius murders?). We are all better than that. Although I would not go so far as to call people here Nazi's or members of the KKK. Many, are expressing sentiments of frustration, and anger at the current situation.

However, I find that many of the comments are just rambling, angry utterings without intellectual thought, and some of the comments make me sick. Recently, one individual targeted Black Muslims (not members of the Nation of Islam specifically) as being prone to savage violence. To me that is racism.

Back to Tamimi, I also have faith in our legal system. However, when I see that Tamimi has been granted bond, I start to lose faith. The judge, I cant recall his name, however does have a fairly good record dealing with Islamists. I believe he presided over the Ismail Royer case.

Yours sincerely

Thomas

To Thom,
as to be blunt as possible, where do you think Islam is mainly spread through the black community(and into other places too)? Prisons. That might explain the relationship that you despair. With Akbar and John Muhammad, both with multiple jihad murders under their belt, it's hard not to generalize. And with a good chunk of the black rappers and black power establishment sympathizing with the jihadists and the Palestinians, it's hard not to notice unless you want to wear rose colored pc glasses.
As far as this judge and case goes, why should this guy be out on bond, so he can help set up another attack?

Scholar?, My Arse!

Jakester,

With respect I reject your overblown arguments about black Muslims. In this country, aside from Akbar and John Muhammad, we have seen greater problems with WHITE converts to Islam. And guess what, there are fewer Caucasian converts, proportionally speaking than Black converts. Come on, John Walker, Ryan Anderson, Ismail Royer, Brandon Mayfield, Adam Gandha... and there are others.

As far as your link between mainstream hip hop music and Jihad, I am baffled. There is no real identifiable link (at the mainstream level, although I am aware of one underground african-american rap group called soldiers of all, who have extolled the virtues of Jihad, but they are underground with a very small following). Ocassionally these artists make passing references to Islam, specifically the Nation of Islam. But as far as a link there is none. The last time I checked most main stream hip hop artists actually supported Israel. Are you aware that the Wu-Tang Clan and others on the East Coast have strong Jewish ties, and have even played concerts for Jewish-Israeli interests.

We should research and think before we make broad statements.

Yours sincerely

Thomas

commonsense get real, i chew tobacco, i own a shotgun, my father is what you would refer to as a hick, but nazis and racists we aint. the real nazis are the islamists. check out tellthechildrenthetruth.com and see how the islamists allied with hitler in ww2.

oh i almost forgot, the real racists are following calypso louie and the nation of islam (read about their demented theories sometime) along with la raza and the poverty pimps.

A minor point about the portion of the story quoted at the top of the page: Al Timini actually faces a mandatory MINIMUM sentence of life in prison, not a MAXIMUM.

I don't know about anyone else, but I wouldn't place any bets on his showing up for sentencing, thanks to the ridiculously low bail he was released on.

Gotta hand it to those Clinton-appointed judges...

Commonsenseforall:

First off, all together now, one more time - MUSLIMS ARE NOT A RACE! Islam is a belief-system which should be as open to criticism as believing in capitalism, marxism, christianity, objectivism or whatever belief-system you care to bring up.

Second off, in all the time that I have been posting here (which is since the time Mr. Spencer set up the site), I have only seen one post which I would consider racist, for which I took that poster to task.

Personally, I think you are a Muslim doing a pretty good imitation of an American trying to make us feel ashamed of exercising our right to freedom of speech not to mention freedom of conscience but I am afraid such tactics won't work here. And not because we are racist, close-minded bigots but because we KNOW Muslims lie constantly and we have much evidence to support our views. Not only do Muslims lie to non-Muslims about their religion but they also re-write history to suit themselves and their political agenda. Also, they lie to themselves in that they ignore any fact or argument which contradicts their way of thinking.

The bottom line, Commonsenseforall, is that your level of ignorance is near the Marianas Trench in depth; you had better spend a few days reading the back posts on Jihadwatch and then come back and talk to us.

On the other hand, Commonsenseforall, I have had occasion to regret expressing my views so forcefully; if, as it turns out, you are a reasonable person and can actually demonstrate to us that we are racists, I would be please to consider your evidence. If you want to accuse us of bigotry, however, speaking only for myself, I cheerfully accept that charge, because certainly I hate Islam and make no bones about it. I also think that Western Civilization is the greatest civilization thus far created and am a firm believer in cultural imperialism.

OK Thom
You are right, most of the rappers prolly could care less one way or another, they are in it for their worthless oversized egos and the $. But quite a few have showed off some serious anti-Semitism (Public Enemy) and many buy into crank fringe 9/11 conspiracy theory nonsense, along with the usual conspiracy theory garbage. H. Rap Brown is a vociferous Jew and Israel hater and is serving life for murder as a Muslim with some stupid name now, but let's not dwell to long on such examples. But since Islam is stronger in the black community than white community, it makes sense that there is going to be more jihad there. Believe me, I am not giving a free pass to any American Muslim of any color, like this guy above, but you have to follow the mosques and most American(as opposed to first or second generation immigrants) Muslims are black. It isn't surprising at all that some of the worse cases are black, as far as I know, none of the white ones, including Taliban John, were ever accused of actual murder. That is not a free pass either. Islam is the enemy till it finally gets up the courage to shed its jihad and totalitarianism.

commonsenseforall, Somehow I don't think charm or tact are your strong points. To call the posters here hicks and nazis is just a little on the trollish side, don't you think. You haven't endeared yourself to the group with that load of bull.

Fellow Jihadwatchers:

Here's another one for the "I can't believe it" department:

In brief, this guy gets pinned for dozens of rapes after they do DNA testing on a victim's 32 year old underwear; however, for me, that is not the real news. The real news is:

Mr. Rubin said his client, who taught himself Arabic and took the Muslim name Umar Abdul Hakeem, had never tried to hide from the authorities. For a decade after 1993, Mr. Worrell worked in Cairo as a translator, Mr. Rubin said.

He had opened bank accounts and utilities contracts under the name Anderson Worrell in Atlanta, where he was living when he was arrested, Mr. Rubin said. "He was a well-respected member of the Muslim community," the lawyer said. "This is not fugitive behavior."

Check it out:

After 32 Years, Clothing Yields a DNA Key to Dozens of Rapes

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/27/nyregion/27rape.html?pagewanted=1&ei=5094&en=8d31f8780b109dc1&hp&ex=1114574400&partner=homepage

Thomas, what do you think of the verses in the islamic holy books that say more or less that blacks are "devils"? Islam has it's own problems with race.

So my facts from above are mindless rants?

Well here's a update to the story on the Islamic school condoning antisemitism,below is a link to Muhammed Elmasry's whine about a "Letter to the editor" from a person pointing out the
attacks on Jews over the last 3000 years.
Elmasry is the yahoo that stated on a public TV show that "All Isralis over 18 are valid targets for murder by suicide-bombers" ,he later denounced the terrorism by saying "I was only repeating the views of my Palestinian friends in Canada".

This is the DEMAND by Muslims to see if a Hate-crime was committed by a Jew.

http://www.canadianislamiccongress.org/mc/media_communique.php?mcdate=2005-04-25
**************************************************

And here is the Governments bowing down to Allah by agreeing to look into the DEMANDS by Muslims,now that the Islamic school is off the hook Elmasry wants his "Pound of flesh" as part of showing how Loving and Foregiving Islam is and how Allah condemns revenge.

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/OttawaSun/News/2005/04/26/1012977-sun.html

Commonsense is on the right track. Much of the commentary on this site is embarassing, and has actually caused Robert Spencer a great deal of grief (remember the Armanoius murders?). We are all better than that. Although I would not go so far as to call people here Nazi's or members of the KKK. Many, are expressing sentiments of frustration, and anger at the current situation.

However, I find that many of the comments are just rambling, angry utterings without intellectual thought, and some of the comments make me sick. Posted by Thomas

Thomas, I guess we're on different wavelengths because I find very few incoherent, rambling, hate-filled tirades here. Sure, people are angry, frustrated, and fed up with Islamic insanity. The passionate feelings expressed here are benign compared to the senseless violence, death, and suffering inflicted by muslim fanatics every day of the year in multiple locations around the globe. We are facing a threat unlike any we have ever seen, and the anxiety level is very high for those of us who are aware of its magnitude.

I believe Mr. Spencer has the ability to ban disruptive people from posting here. Within the guidelines of common courtesy, I think posters should be permitted to say whatever they think. The posts on Jihad Watch are love letters compared to the invective found on most Islamic websites where pure, unmitigated hate abounds.

Friends, in case you don't know Thomas Haidon may be the much spoken of unicorn (moderate muslim), so he takes offense at blanket statements about muslims.

Thanks, Freedom. I don't know why my link wouldn't work.

Kia ora

For one, I never said ALL of the reader commentary was horrendous. I agree much of the commentary reflects sentiments of anger and frustration in a fairly measured manner. I also enjoy reading many. I have also seen readers here do great things, such as forming projects and panel discussions. There are other comments however, that I do see daily or every other day that disucss the genocide of Muslims. Today, one reader commented that the Russians should take after the Serbs in dealing with their Muslim problem. Is that not atrocious?

Yes, we know Islamists are bad, we know what they say and do. And we know that Islam itself is the source of the problem (even as a Muslim I know this).

Mr Spencer may have the ability to ban disruptive people, but be rest assured he does not have the time. He has stated before that he does not have the time to monitor the content of this site. Mr Spencer certainly probably does not approve of the remarks that are heavy handed, rude and offensive.

I have enormous respect for brilliant commentators like Hugh Fitzgerald who unabashedly critique Islam and Islamists in a manner that is intellectual and thought provoking. We should all aim to use these tools.

Yours sincerely

Thomas

Ala-sux,

This of course is the same Elmasry who thinks that he was nearly attacked by two busloads of "commando" Jews (note: not 'Zionists' or even 'Israelis', but 'Jews'), which were only narrowly fended off by the police, who then called him an 'honourable man'.

For a physics professor of passing skill, he seems to have an active imagination.

Geoff

Ala-sux,

This of course is the same Elmasry who thinks that he was nearly attacked by two busloads of "commando" Jews (note: not 'Zionists' or even 'Israelis', but 'Jews'), which were only narrowly fended off by the police, who then called him an 'honourable man'.

For a physics professor of passing skill, he seems to have an active imagination.

Geoff

Gah! Double post!

I must now sacrifice my family to Allah in repentance.

Geoff

Thomas: having admitted what you've admitted, why the hell are you still Muslim?

Dhimmitude at Berkeley:

http://www.berkeleydaily.org/article.cfm?issue=04-26-05&storyID=21246

Forcing people to hold elections can bring the opposite of a desired outcome. “Mr. Bush is the best recruiter (for extremist movements) and Bin Laden is his sergeant,” said Nadia Yassine, spokesperson for the al-Adi wal-Ihsan (Justice and Charity) Islamist Movement in Morocco. Yassine said the best way to bring democracy is for developed nations to assist in providing education and eradicating poverty. The United States’ way is adopting “democracy Nescafe—quickly made. We have to have real democracy,” she said.

Mentat,
you're a "white devil" for showing us that NYT link! LOL

Thomas Haidon:

How dare you lecture US? Why don't you focus your energies on cleaning your own house? (Yes, I am aware of your efforts toward that end - how is that working out for you?) As Susanp pointed out, the very WORST that is posted here is nothing in comparison to the murderous vitriol spewed by millions of muslims daily, much of which can be witnessed directly worldwide by visiting websites or the local mosque to pick up the latest literature or listen to a sermon.

When we are confronted DAILY by the atrocities of the barbaric totalitarian political ideology that is islam, don't expect nicey-nice intellectual musings; the natural response is visceral and emotional. It is the tamping-down of these natural responses that has us in our current predicament. It is not unexpected nor unreasonable for us to despise such a system and to desire its utter annihilation, especially since and when it seeks our destruction as a civilization as its primary goal. We were not wrong to hate Nazism, and islamofacism, and indeed islam at its very core, is no different - indeed, many of us consider it to be worse.

So the next time a Western head gets sawed off with a dull kitchen knife on videotape with the savages screaming that their satanic "god" is greater than any other, in effect offering up a human sacrifice to appease his bloodlust, don't expect us to casually condemn the behavior and dismiss it as aberrant - WE KNOW FROM WHENCE THE DIRECTIVES COME. Expect an emotional response commensurate with the level of barbarity of each issue and occurence, and if some hold back and post reasonably and not with the level of corresponding outrage, so much the better for the proof of the superiority of Enlightened Western Civilization.

What is the appropriate response to an ideology - islam - that demands utter submission or genocide? Spencer wants us to "be better" than our enemy, and hold back from retaliating in kind. Most of us do. But our utter contempt and hatred for islam is not misplaced, and if a few "nuke 'em" comments leak out around the edges, it's only to be expected. There's only so much provocation the non-muslim world will take, and I sense that point rapidly approaching.

Be advised.

CGW

In a posting on February 23 Robert included this comment: "a prominent U.S. Muslim told me and the audience [during one of my recent talks] during the Q & A that it was unlike any Islam that he knew. I have many reasons to doubt that that is entirely the case..."

This “prominent” Muslim was Mahdi Bray, the director of something called the “Freedom Foundation: at the Muslim American Society. At least since July, 2004, Mahdi Bray had been demanding the return of one Ahmad Abu-Ali from Saudi Arabia:

“MAS Freedom Foundation's Executive Director, Mahdi Bray, called the continued detention of Ahmed Abu-Ali, an American born citizen and an honor student, in a Saudi Arabian jail a "national disgrace and tragedy."

When Abu-Ali was extradited to the United States, presumably fulfilling Bray’s wish, Mahdi Bray was still not happy. At his MSA “Freedom Foundation” website he announced:

We're deeply grateful to the Almighty for the return of Abu-Ali the United States of America," said Muslim American Society Freedom Foundation Executive Director Mahdi Bray. "However, I am still greatly troubled and concerned about the manner in which our government has dealt with Abu Ali and his family.

"Nothing short of his release and return to his family is acceptable to us," stated Bray.

And when Abu-Ali appeared for his hearing at a courthouse in Virginia, who should show up to protest but those whom Mahdi Bray had helped urge should come to protest. Violating court decorum, the crowd of Abu-Ali supporters proceeded to laugh at the judge as he announced the charges.

So Al-Timimi, who has just been put away (one hopes in an all-Muslim cell block, where the possibility of conducting Da’wa behind bars is severely limited) for some time, is not the first person charged, or convicted, of terrorism or terrorism-related activities, for for whom Mahdi Bray has demonstrated such stout, unswerving, single-minded umma-al-islamiyya loyalty. He was stoutly behind Ahmed Abu-Ali, when Abu-Ali was in Saudi Arabia, and then when he was extradited to the United States. And before Al-Timimi, and before Abu-Ali, Mahdi Bray was standing up for Abdurrahman Alamoudi, the man connected to the Boston Mosque still under construction, a man whose sinister connections and statements can be located on the Internet.. Though Alamoudi was famous for the murderous hatred he directed at Infidels, it was his role in planning the assassination of a fellow Muslim, Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah, that finally did him in. He is now serving a 23-year term. Perhaps he will be able to room with Al-Timimi.

But this is only part of Bray’s activities.

In October 2000 he appeared at a demonstration called in support of Hamas and Hizbullah:

“In American Jihad, [Steve] Emerson notes that when Abdurrahman Alamoudi of the American Muslim Council, who is now serving a 23-year prison sentence for a terrorism financing convicti on, encouraged the Muslim crowd at an October 2000 rally cosponsored by MPAC to declare their support of the jihad terror groups Hamas and Hizballah, “MPAC’s Political Advisor, Mahdi Bray, stood directly behind Alamoudi and was seen jubilantly exclaiming his support for these two deadly terrorist organizations.” This was just three weeks after Bray “coordinated and led a rally where approximately 2,000 people congregated in front of the Israeli Embassy in Washington , D.C. ” Emerson reports that “at one point during the rally, Mahdi Bray played the tambourine as one of the speakers sang, while the crowd repeated: ‘Al-Aqsa [Mosque] is calling us, let’s all go into jihad, and throw stones at the face of the Jews [sic].’

He was at another demonstration in December of that same year:
On December 22, 2000, MPAC's Mahdi Bray organized a rally in Lafayette Park outside the White House to celebrate a "Worldwide Day for Jerusalem." In Arabic, the crowd responsively chanted with the emcee, "Khaybar, Khaybar oh Jews, the Army of Muhammad is coming for you!" Posters calling for "Death to Israel" and equating the Star of David with the Nazi swastika were openly displayed and anti-Semitic literature calling for the destruction of the Jews and Israel was distributed. Members of the crowd burned the Israeli flag while marching from the White House to the State Department.

Bray spoke at this rally, along with Imam Mohammed al-Asi, former director of the Islamic Education Center in Potomac, Maryland, who exhorted the crowd to violence in the name of Islam. Al-Asi said, "Now, all our khatibs (speakers), our imams, our public speakers, should be concentrating on militarizing the Muslim public. This is not a time to make a speaking issue out of this ... Muslims have to familiarize themselves with every means possible ... Rhetoric is not going to liberate Al Quds and Al Aqsa. Only carrying arms will do this task. And it's not going to be someone else who is going to carry arms for you and for me. It is you and me who are going to have to carry these arms."

And here is some testimony before Congress about Mahdi Bray:

From testimony before Congress by Testimony
United States Senate Committee on the Judiciary
Terrorist Recruitment and Infiltration in the United States: Prisons and Military as an Operational Base.
October 14, 2003


Dr. Michael Waller
Annenberg Professor of International Communication , The Institute of World Politics

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Statement of J. Michael Waller
Annenberg Professor of International Communication
Institute of World Politics

Before the

Subcommittee on Terrorism, Technology and Homeland Security

Senate Committee on the Judiciary

14 October 2003

Appendix 2: Key Organizations Involved in Muslim Prison Recruitment

National Islamic Prison Foundation (NIPF) – Contact: Mahdi Bray; 1212 New York Ave. NW, Suite 525, Washington, DC 20005. This is the same address as the American Muslim Council (AMC).

• “Specifically organized to convert American inmates to Wahhabism.”

And at www.masboston.org, the website of the Boston chapter of the “Muslim American Society” there are quite a number of items of interest. The first is the listing of the “Trainers” of Muslim activists (“training” in how to talk to Infidels at Outreach Meetings or in the conduct of Da’wa or in dealing with inquisitive media). In fact only one “trainer” is listed:
Mahdi Bray
Imam Mahdi Bray is a long time civil and human rights activist. He is currently the Executive Director of the Muslim American Society (MAS) Freedom Foundation, and the President of the Coordinating Council of Muslim Organizations (CCMO). He also serves on the Board of Directors of the National Interfaith Committee for Worker Justice and the Interfaith Alliance, and also on the Advisory Board of the American Muslim Council and Muslim Public Affairs Council. He is a Washington, DC, Television and Radio Talk-Show Host.

He has served as a major consultant and a political advisor to Bonner & Associates, Washington’s largest grassroots lobbying firm, the National Center for Housing Management, Alexandria City Redevelopment & Housing Authority, Community Relations Department, The City of Norfolk, Virginia, Department of Community Improvement, and the Independent Voter League. He has also served as a Political Advisor and Strategist, to several national, state, and local political campaigns. He is also the author of, ‘The Masjid (Mosque) Voter’s Guide’ and ‘The Political Guide for Masjid (Mosque) Activists.’

Also, Imam Mahdi Bray is one of the main organizers for the No War on Iraq movement.

He has also served as a liaison between President’s White House Faith-Based Initiative Program and congressional affairs on behalf of the Muslim community.

On another page, there is a ad for a Muslim summer camp where students will experience “Tarbeya” which is then described thus: .

“At MAS, the Tarbeya process is considered the most important process and the Tarbeya department is one of the permanent departments in the organization. This belief traces its origin to the teachings of Prophet Mohamed as he -peace be upon him- invested a lot of effort doing Tarbeya for his companions. As a result of his effort, he did not only leave a great message, the message of Islam, but also left a great generation that carried the message and spread it all over the land and moved humanity from darkness to light. Islamic history proved that whenever this process was considered, Muslims were able to succeed and Islam prevailed. Imam Hassan Al-Banna, the founder and the leader of a great Islamic movement, the Muslim Brotherhood, said ‘Whenever you find the good Muslim you find with him all means for great success.’”

Note the praise of Hassan al-Banna, described as “the founder and the leader of a great Islamic movement, the Muslim Brotherhood.” Anyone who needs to understand what the Muslim Brotherhood is all about can simply google that organization. Hassan Al-Banna (“my grandfather” – as Tariq Ramadan refers to him with such loyal, such filial, piety) not only organized secret cells in Egypt, but would also give public addresses, whipping up his followers. And what better way for those folloers to express their ignited enthusiasm, than to go out and attack non-Musim (Coptic and Jewish) businesses, and to torch them, and if they managed to grab some non-Muslim and beat him, sometimes fatally – well, that was in the spirit of the day too. For example, one such speech was followed by an anti-Infidel pogrom in Cairo on November 2, 1945.

The next time a smiling plausible fellow shows up at a public gathering, no longer shaking a tambourine, and shouting hosannas to Hamas and Hezbullah, but offerning a tone of sweet reasonableness, of more-in-sorrow wistfulness about the willful and mean-minded misunderstanding of Islam, and the victimization of Muslims, see if he manages to mention, somehow

“I’m just a country Muslim from Norfolk, Virginia”

with a smile and an ah-shucks shrug meant to suggest two things – he’s just as American as he can possibly be, and for that matter so is this Islam we hear all those nasty and untrue things about. If so, then you are in the presence of Mahdi Bray.

After they have heard Bray’s forays into taqiyya and tu-quoque, when Bray puts on his look of wounded innocence, be sure to recall for the audience the entire contents of this posting (keep a copy handy whenever you think you might be running into Mahdi Bray).

And remind that audience, after he ends on a note of injured inoocence, the famous remark of Emerson:

“The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons.”