More misunderstanding of Islam, this time in Cairo. Just in from Ireland Online, with thanks to the Constantinopolitan Irredentist:
A reported four people were killed and 19 injured when an explosion apparently set off by a man on a motorcycle hit a popular tourist bazaar in Cairo’s Old City today.Two of the dead were a French woman and an American, said Egypt’s deputy health minister Ahmed Adel. The nationalities of the two other dead are not yet known.
Injured were 10 Egyptians, two Americans, two Turks, two Italians, two French people and a British person.
Police earlier reported that three people may have been killed, with body parts strewn around the area, near Cairo’s famed al-Azhar mosque.
They were near an important Muslim, Muslim-only spot. In Luxor, those 68 Swiss tourists who were stabbed and decapitated were visiting an important pre-Islamic, Muslim-only spot. Ditto with those foreign tourists blown up at Djerba, Tunisia -- a hallowed non-Muslim but Muslim-only spot.
Where else could it happen? Petra, the rose-red city, half as old as time, in Jordan. Hagia Sophia or for that matter, Infidel tourists standing in line at Topkapi. the palace of Moulay Hassan. Any Christian tourists visiting sacred sites associated with St. Paul in Anatolia or Syria. Any tourists visiting Roman ruins in Baalbek. In Libya. In Tunisia. In Algeria. Any tourists visiting Coptic churches anywhere in Cairo. Or Upper Egypt. Or Lower Egypt.
Or anywhere at all.
Make your own list.
Author Speaks Out About Censoring His Book and CAIR
http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/cgi-bin/newsviews.cgi/Islam/CAIR/2005/04/06/Caving_In_to_Jihad_
Last month for hugging
An Egyptian man stabbed and wounded two Hungarian tourists in central Cairo last month
Todays attack is in the same place,what was the reason today,KISSING
Motorcyclists in Cairo don't need a bomb to be absolutely terrifying.
Even my experience of the Isle of Man TT was not enough to prepare me for the onslaught of Czech Jawas (which I had only seen before in speedway) coming from all directions. One image sticks in my mind - laden with all the family - Dad piloting, 3 year old sitting astride the petrol tank, Mum in long dress sitting sidesaddle on the pillion holding the baby, they overtook my taxi three times on the way to the airport.
I only spent a weekend there in 1987. I promised myself that one day I would go back, not alone this time, in the cooler season and spend more time seeing the city in more depth. I can't see that happening now.
No Muslim country is worth the risk of a visit. And a village in Tuscany has more worth seeing than all of the Muslim world. What are you missing? Some dilapidated churches. Some desert sands. Some date palms against the night sky. Dates, deserts, dilapidation. Stick to Europe, North America, South America, India, East Asia, Australia, Oceania.
let those animals kill eachother, filthy anti semite islamofacists, kiss my ass islam and egypt.
Hugh
I wanted to see the pyramids, which I saw and climbed inside, and the Tutankamun exhibition, which was a disappointment having seen them better displayed in the British Museum 16 years earlier. I was just left with the feeling that a city of that size and antiquity needed more of my attention than I could give in a 48 hour transit stop.
Another 'Killing' blow to tourist trade in Egypt!
Watched an interesting programme about resurgence of Hijab and veiled women. Due to increased radical Islam ,funded by billions from
'their friend & ally U.S' women are covering themselves up 'to the eyes.' Yet there was scarcely a veil to be seen in Egypt in 1930's and
an Egyptian woman IN A SWIMSUIT won Miss World in 1955. Situation in former 'Land of the Pharaohs'
is very bad with Islamic revolution in the air . Better to stay at home or go to a 'safe' Western country for holidays. My Egyptian Christian Copt friend would like to know why Christian Western Press and Media stay so quiet about all the persecution
suffered by Christians & minorities in Middle East??
No patronage of muslim business whenever I can help it. This includes filling up at Citgo stations and not eating at any 'Indian' restaurants that don't display the usual Hindo motiffs. And absolutely no tourist money spent in dar-al-islam (this includes Bradford, England...).
I toyed with the idea of a vacation to 'secular' Turkey a couple of years ago, but Erogdan changed my mind.
per my comment above: Hindo should be HindU. I'm not an idiot, I just can't type...
per my comment above: Hindo should be HindU. I'm not an idiot, I just can't type...
per my comment above: Hindo should be HindU. I'm not an idiot, I just can't type...
OK, not sure how I triple posted...maybe I am an idiot?
So can someone explain to me in clear and unambiguous terms, how is throwing a grenade into a non-Muslim civilian crowd sanctioned by Islam?
Posted by: Belisarius
LOL
So can someone explain to me in clear and unambiguous terms, how is throwing a grenade into a non-Muslim civilian crowd sanctioned by Islam?
Posted by: Shukri at April 7, 2005 05:51 PM
Shukri,
You should have asked for something just a little more challenging, that was way to easy.
In regards to ambiguity, well, I cant help that the Qur’an is nothing but. That really is Mohammad’s fault, not mine.
002.193
YUSUFALI: And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.
002.244
YUSUFALI: Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things
008.065
YUSUFALI: O Prophet! rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers: for these are a people without understanding.
009.029
YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
061.004
YUSUFALI: Truly Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure.
049.009
YUSUFALI: If two parties among the Believers fall into a quarrel, make ye peace between them: but if one of them transgresses beyond bounds against the other, then fight ye (all) against the one that transgresses until it complies with the command of Allah; but if it complies, then make peace between them with justice, and be fair: for Allah loves those who are fair (and just).
There are over 100 such verses in the not very nobel Qur’an, if you think these have been taken out of context, I challenge you to put your money where your mouth is, and prove it.
If Mohammad ever had an original though, it would have died from loneliness.......
Kia ora
There is one redeeming quality about some Arab cities, the plethora of shisha (or nargilla) cafes on every street corner.
I have spent three years in Cairo, and return a couple of times a year. I have lived near Khan el Khalilly as well. I never really believed Cairo was immune from this sort of violence, but it was bound to happen. I am very shaken by this attack.
And I fear, now that the floodgates have been opened. This attack will lead to many more, I think, especially as groups begin to bubble to the surface. This attack, will destroy any hope of democratic change, and Hosni Mubarak is doing the robot dance in his office, because this attack will allow him to publically undermine any attempts at democratic reform (not that he was serious anyway), and perpetuate Egypt's emergency laws to ensure the continuance of his power and the ascension of his son to the presidency.
There has likely been collusion between the government and Islamists on some level. Only Mubarak benefits. Copts and the poor will invariably suffer (even more than they already do) enormously as a result, as they tend to after terrorist strokes hit Egypt.
Yours sincerely
Thomas
A co-worker of mine has decided to go to Turkey for 3 weeks... Hope she's safe because she doesn't have the ole muslim head gear... but then again, she could pass for a guy.
See media report on Muslim oppression of Malaysian bloggers.
http://www.asiamedia.ucla.edu/article.asp?parentid=22787
Thomas-
"...destroy any hope for democratic change..."?
"...likely collusion between the government and the Islamists on some level..."?
Egypt is an over-populated, under-educated cauldron of Islamic resentments of every stripe.
Mubarak is doing a lion-tamer's trick, at best.
The idea that anything popularly voted-in, under the current conditions, would resemble a sane 'democracy' -and would NOT turn into an intolerant Algeria on the Nile (from this poisonous theocratic soup of simmering fanatics) is such a pipedream that the 'shisha' you mentioned must be filled not with 'nicotiana' but 'sativa'. (You need to live in Amsterdam for anything similar in Europe, but don't adopt the name 'Theo Van Gogh' if you do.)
Egypt needs birth control, some serious History education, comparative religious teaching, and then, maybe, there would be a little hope for its future.
At present, the most amazing mummies in Egypt are the Islamicists' brains.
Famous Islamic Tourist Attractions:
EGYPT-The PYRAMIDS- built by the pharohs long before the muzis arrived
TURKEY-The BLUE MOSQUE in Istanbul- built by Christians long before the muzis arrived
INDIA-The TAJ MAHAL- built by the Hindus long before the muzis arrived
ISREAL-TEMPLE ON THE MOUNT- built by the Jews long before the muzis arrived
INDONESIA-BurbordorTemple- built by the Buddists long before the muzis arrived
SAUDIA ARABIA-The Kabah In Mecca-A lump of rock worshipped by Pagans long before the muzis arrived
NEW YORK-USA-Ground Zero-The only attraction
created by muzis;who will hopefully be extinct before they arrive
OT
Why is CIAR not complaining that an Islamic Center and Mosque is not being built at ground zero.
OT
The last time I was in England 15yrs ago it was more easy to find Shish Kebab than Fish and Chips
When I grew up there was a Fish and Chip Shop on nearly every street.Just wondering what is the mosque/fish n chip ratio on the streets today
oh you forgot ancient babylon, saddam spruced it up a bit by carving his name in every 4th godamn brick.
oh you forgot ancient babylon, saddam spruced it up a bit by carving his name in every 4th godamn brick.
oh you forgot ancient babylon, saddam spruced it up a bit by carving his name in every 4th godamn brick.
sorry about the triple posts i hate it when u think it didnt go through so u end up pressing the post button a couple times.
Thomas
There has likely been collusion between the government and Islamists on some level.
I think that
There is a lot of collusion between the government and Islamists on all levels.
We must remember that both the governments and Islamists share the same idiotology,the governments are using the Islamists for there covert actions[much like the USA/FBI]And collecting all the aid we are throwing at them
All aid to all muslims must stop.It would be better to the give to the Serbs and anywhere else that has suffered from Islamists.
Here is a little thought,would Mexico be such a pain in the arse if all the aid that has been wasted going to muslims had gone to Mexico instead.Even Cuba and the West Indies come to mind.
Bar, I don't see how any of the quoted verses sanction the indiscriminate killing of non-Muslims. My question, therefore, still stands:
Can someone explain to me in clear and unambiguous terms, how is throwing a grenade into a non-Muslim civilian crowd sanctioned by Islam?
Nothing "Islamic" about the Pyramids.
The Blue Mosque was built by Sultan Ahmed I in the early 17th century.
The Taj Mahal was built by the Mughal emperor Shah Jahan as a mausoleum for his wife. More
The Romans destroyed the original temple and used the site as a garbage dump. The Muslims built Masjid Al-Aqsa and the Dome of the Rock.
Nothing "Islamic" about it.
The Prophet Abraham built the Kaaba. The Meccan pagans did not worship the Kaaba itself, but they worshipped the hundreds of idols that were stored inside.
Please check your facts.
"Two of the dead were a French woman and an American [...]"
Tomorrow in his radio speech the American president will announce that the U. S. of America stops funding Egypt.
Enragingly, not true.
Shukri, to me, those verses, like most of the Koran, and most other religious texts for that matter, are somewhat ambiguous. Basically, the main jist seems to be, unsuprisingly, Muslim good; Infidel bad. Do what I say because I am a prophet and I speak for god. But what I think these texts mean dosn't really matter does it, since they influence my actions in no way whatsoever. What matters is how the message of these verses is construed by terrorists, because they are the ones using fear and intimidation to violently spread their version of Islam, or at least their version of it. Now I have a question for you: What have moderate Muslims done to stop them? What has been the result of these efforts, to stop "radical" Islam from within the "Ummah?" Whether or not your question stands, is irrelevant, because your question itself is irrelevent. What is the point of arguing with infidels as to whether or not the Koran absolutely sanctions the killing of innocents, since the Koran is not an authority for us? It seems it would be much more productive to make that arguement to the people planting the bombs, or those who support this type of bahavior. Talk is not enough. Action is what is needed. If you do not resist the actions of your "extremist" brothers, be assured that their victims and enemies will.
Istanbul...formerly Constantinople...for you know, Constantine. Similarly, Alexandria was founded by...you know, Alexander the Great.
Where are those cities now? Along with the ancient Christian communities in what is now known as Asia Minor?
Oh yes, over run and decimated (literally) by the Moslem hordes throughout the last 1500 years.
Shukri
004.089
YUSUFALI: They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;-
When we break this Sura down this is what it clearly says.
The Christians or Jews want Moslems to reject their faith.
Moslems are forbidden to have Jews or Christians as friends, unless they convert to Mohammadanism, if they convert and then convert back, it is Allah’s wish for you to kill them wherever you find them. It should be called the religion of compulsion and murder.
008.012
YUSUFALI: Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."
008.013
YUSUFALI: This because they contended against Allah and His Messenger: If any contend against Allah and His Messenger, Allah is strict in punishment.
008.014
YUSUFALI: Thus (will it be said): "Taste ye then of the (punishment): for those who resist Allah, is the penalty of the Fire."
Sura 8.12 clearly states that unbelievers are to have their necks and finger tips detached from their bodies. The next Sura gives the reason for this sudden detachment as simply being an unbeliever or a non-Moslem. Sura 8.14 is just more scare tactics.
Volume 1, Book 2, Number 24:
Narrated Ibn 'Umar:
Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives an property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."
Book 001, Number 0030:
It is reported on the authority of Abu Huraira that the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah, and he who professed it was guaranteed the protection of his property and life on my behalf except for the right affairs rest with Allah.
The Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari clearly and completely agrees with my analysis.
It is a sad state of affairs when a Moslem receives an education on Mohammadanism from an infidel.
Shukri, perhaps you should refute this with evidence to the contrary, instead of just making the statement “that’s not clear and unambiguous”.
Shukri
Of the Seven sites mentioned It is only the Seventh there is no doubt about who the creators
are.Noticed you could not refute the greatest of all islamic achievements
NEW YORK-USA-Ground Zero-
A few days ago I posted a link which documented more than 2000 islamic attacks,since 9/11.Now there have been more,Kashmir,Iraq,Thialand and now Egypt.All this attacks have one thing in common,muslims,followers of Islam,which does sanction the unambiguous murderous verses of the Quoran
So bearing in mind these facts,Can you explain to me in clear and unambiguous terms,why we should not consider turning a few Muslim cities into glass.
The large black cube of stone in Mecca within the Ka'aba is one of several to be found in various places in Arabia, though this is not widely publicized. Whether they were hewed in situ, or brought to various places for worship, I have no idea. It made sense to incorporate bits and pieces of the practices and beliefs prior to Islam -- including not only the Arab pagans of the time of jahiliyya, but also Christian, Jewish, and even Zoroastrian lore. The prostration in Muslim prayer may come from Eastern Chrisians. The manichaeanism -- from Persia. That this has not been a subject of much study simply testifies to the reluctance of Muslim Believers to treat Islam as Christians and Jews, without -- apparently -- a loss of faith (which may have other sources), have managed in the last few centuries to treat, historically, Christianity and Judaism.
"Can someone explain to me in clear and unambiguous terms, how is throwing a grenade into a non-Muslim civilian crowd sanctioned by Islam?" - Shukri
Well and deceptively put, Shukri. Of course a specific act such as the above is not specifically sanctioned in islam - no more than there is a technical manual for the use of grenades. Primarily, I believe, the Quran refers to edged weapons, which were available at the time. Interestingly, although Wahhabis and other radicals want a literal interpretation of the Quran, their faith in this 'Allah' is insufficient to let them go to war with the weapons specifically mentioned in the Quran: swords and knives alone. It is unusual that Wahhabism doesn't mind modernizing their weaponry, if not their minds.
The fact of the matter is that the Quran doesn't say what tactics specifically one is to use against the unbelievers in 'war' (other than the 'cutting of necks' etc., and ambush). Thus, the use of grenades is also permitted. Mohammed was known for slaying the defenseless on other occasions; the precedent exists. You yourself have said that the murder of 'collaborators' is sanctioned in islam; how easy then to extend the 'permissable targets' to those of 'oppressors' from other nations. After all, the greater good is at stake, no? - the islamicization of the 'homeland'. If you suspected foreigners were a threat to the imposition of sharia, Shukri, what would you do? We already know what you'd do to the majority population if they voted against sharia and for Western concepts.
One might, if one were honest, try to deal with elements in islamic society that promote such behaviours - if one were honest.
Geoff
Sahih Bukhari
The Sahih Bukhari stands as evidence to Mohammads crass plagiarism.
Ref : http://countrystudies.us/saudi-arabia/4.htm
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Ref :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sin_%28mythology%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaaba
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabaean
http://www.templemount.org/missler.html