Germany: Police arrest jihadists and raid mosques

I'm beginning to like the lexicogenic flair of your inventive "misunderstanders."

Thanks, Hugh. I don't know what else to call 'em. Any ideas?

Yrs
RS

Personally I like misunderstanders of islam (MOI).

Geoff

Or Mislamists.

Little Green Footballs tends to talk about ROPers. (ROP being of course Religion of Peace).

Like I made mention of in the previous thread on Sgt. Akbar, according to Islamic Sacred Law, Muslims are obliged to obey the law of the land. The failure of insignificant numbers of Muslims to abide by this is no reason to demonize the overwhelming majority of law-abiding Muslims.

'Muslims are obliged to obey the law of the land.'~ Shukri

Granted that it was a secular government under Saddam, Iraq was and Is predominantly muslim. And American soldiers- kuffar- were and Are on muslim land. Now, I can't say offhand what suras speak to this, but wasn't Sgt. Akbar doing Exactly what the Koran called for, ie, following the law of the land? (When he should have following the law of the Land he volunteered into the military for).

Sure, Shurki, sure.

Nineteen is, in your lexicon, also an "insignificant number".

Geoff

"Muslims ar obligated to obey the laws of the land"...Shurki

What happens when the"law of the land" conflicts with a basic/or any tenent of the Qu'ran?

Shukri, I won't be happy until all of your people get the hell out of my people's land.

A.G.Frederick III, so much for the "freedom" that is repeatedly talked about.

but wasn't Sgt. Akbar doing Exactly what the Koran called for, ie, following the law of the land? (When he should have following the law of the Land he volunteered into the military for).

Gary, the oath of loyalty that Sgt. Akbar swore was to the US and not Iraq. Hence he was prohibited, even by Islamic Sacred Law, from attacking his fellow soldiers even though they were targetting Muslims.

Nineteen is, in your lexicon, also an "insignificant number".

Sure, Geoff, compared to over a billion Muslims.

What I'm saying is that extremists are a minute quantity compared to the whole. What Mr. Spencer is claiming is that the extremists are the whole. A completely absurd premise but people have to get their kicks somehow.

Shukri:

I agree with your premise that he should have been loyal to his comrades in arms.

So truthfully, what would you have done?

And truthfully, why don't Muslims in America purge their mosques of the Saudi hate literature?

And truthfully, why don't Muslims in America shut down CAIR and the Muslim Students Association ?

And truthfully, why don't Muslims in America fess up the truth about what the Koran says about women's equality ?

And truthfully, why don't Muslims in America run these hate speech Imams and Sheiks out of their conventions, schools, and mosques ?

I think I know the answers but I would like to consider what you have to say

A.G.Frederick III
Terror acts commited by Islam: Thousands
Terror acts commited by others: ZERO
bullshiit

Shukri:

"What Mr. Spencer is claiming is that the extremists are the whole."

Why do you lie about me?

Bring your proof, if you be truthful.

Cordially
Robert Spencer

What are the Tamil tigers aren't they hindus? they've killed thousands in the past 10 years, including using suicide bombings.

So truthfully, what would you have done?

BillR, I would have claimed conscientious objector status and simply refused to fight.

why don't Muslims in America purge their mosques of the Saudi hate literature?

To be honest, I haven't seen any Saudi hate literature in the Mosques that I've been to. I can't comment on the entire US though. To my knowledge, hate speech is removed immediately when we know of it.

And truthfully, why don't Muslims in America shut down CAIR and the Muslim Students Association?

CAIR is a good organization and I am acquainted with their founders and many of their board members. CAIR's "threat" is completely overblown by this site and others. They are simply there to protect the rights of Muslims to not be unfairly treated. They do have faults, but they are in no way as portrayed by this site.

Regarding the MSA, they too are a good organization for Muslim students in schools. I see no problem with them.

why don't Muslims in America fess up the truth about what the Koran says about women's equality?

Feminists and others run with the notion that men are the standard for women, thereby enforcing a constant feeling of inferiority in women who must do everything that men do in order to feel equal.

Islam however does not treat women this way. Divine guidance informs us that men are not the standard and that women have their own standards and are therefore truly equal.

why don't Muslims in America run these hate speech Imams and Sheiks out of their conventions, schools, and mosques?

Out of all the conferences, schools and mosques that I've been to, the closest to "hate speech" that I've heard was the denunciation of the Israeli Occupation in Palestine. But then again, that was not hate speech. So, I haven't really heard anything remotely resembling hate speech. Again, I can only speak for my own experience.

AFredrick III you forgot about a couple of nutcases like tim McVeigh and a few brainles lames in ireland, but you would be correct if you said 98 %of all heinous murders of innocents for religious reasons were committed by practicing MUSLIMs and supported by most muslims.

Shukri:

"What Mr. Spencer is claiming is that the extremists are the whole."

Why do you lie about me?

Bring your proof, if you be truthful.

Do you not say that the actions of extremists are based on true Islam and that therefore anyone who follows Islam is an extremist? Please forgive me if I misunderstood you.

Aw shucks, Shukri, I forgive you.

"Do you not say that the actions of extremists are based on true Islam and that therefore anyone who follows Islam is an extremist? Please forgive me if I misunderstood you."

In the first place, I avoid the word "extremist." It is misleading.

In the second place, I never speak of "true Islam." As a non-Muslim, that is not my place. In fact, I have pointed out that no one can speak of true Islam, because there is no magisterial authority in Islam.

In the third place, I have never said anything like "anyone who follows Islam is an extremist."

What I have done is point out, repeatedly, that there are numerous justifications for violence in the Qur'an and Sunnah. And that those who commit jihad violence and approve of it use those justifications to recruit new adherents to their groups and motivate those already there. And that those who call themselves moderate Muslims have not yet formulated a convincing refutation of the jihadists' version of Islam. In most cases, they simply deny that what the jihadists use to justify their actions is even there -- which is plainly deceptive.

Cordially
Robert Spencer

Mr. Spencer,
Maybe you need to have a section on this website that you must read (agree checkbox) before posting or reading so that extra memroy is not wasted and to lessen the prattle of the trolls, and state in said section a preamble if you will and list your stated objectives.

What I have done is point out, repeatedly, that there are numerous justifications for violence in the Qur'an and Sunnah. And that those who commit jihad violence and approve of it use those justifications

Mr. Spencer,

Muslim terrorists only cite verses from the Quran and events from the Sunnah(out of context) for the killing of non-Muslim civilians as a response to non-Muslim invasions and/or occupation.

What you've essentially done, I believe, is to take verses of the Quran and events from the Sunnah(also out of context), to try to justify the premise that the "real followers of Islam" are out to kill all non-Muslims.

I am not sure whether you have some preset agenda or something but I feel that, in the interests of honesty, you should focus more on finding out the truth rather than attempting to justify existing premises.

Sincerely,
Shukri
shukris@yahoo.com

Shukri,

You say: "What you've essentially done, I believe, is to take verses of the Quran and events from the Sunnah(also out of context), to try to justify the premise that the 'real followers of Islam' are out to kill all non-Muslims."

Although that "real followers of Islam" is in quotation marks, you will not be able to find it in anything I have actually written.

I do not take verses of the Qur'an or Sunnah to try to justify anything. I report on how Muslims use them. If Muslims didn't argue that violent jihad is the final and highest stage of jihad (cf. Sheikh Abdullah bin Muhammad bin Humaid, http://www.islamworld.net/jihad.html), I wouldn't either.

Anyway, if you think I am trying to "justify the premise that the 'real followers of Islam' are out to kill all non-Muslims," then clearly you have no idea what I have really written and really believe about these subjects. I have never written that, I do not believe it, and it is not true.

Your criticisms would be much stronger if you had even some slight knowledge of what you are talking about.

Cordially
Robert Spencer

I am not sure whether you have some preset agenda or something but I feel that, in the interests of honesty, you should focus more on finding out the truth rather than attempting to justify existing premises. - Shukri

Typical muslim response...Claim the theological high road and close your letter.

Wella Allah ha ehhhhh......Beef jerky time. (Taken from Trading Places. Dan Akroyd and Eddie Murphy)

Well duh, HaiJaeger - III

I know that you know!! Wasn't directed at you.

Shukri:

Let me preface my remarks with my astonishment of your patience and good nature in light of the hostile environment you have here, and that includes me. I must submit that the discourse here is rather civil. But that's what America is all about, the open discourse that cannot be found in Islam among other places.

Everyone here, everyone who has ever posted here would be summarily executed in any one of your idyllic Islamic counties. You should feel confident that not one of us advocates that your head should be separated from your shoulders. Not a one! Well, maybe one or two (Only kidding, really)

Would you change this? Have us submit to the "one true god" that demands our silence?
Shukri, there's a storm coming, can you smell the electricity in the air?

---------------------------
"I would have claimed conscientious objector status and simply refused to fight."

Objection? That's truly passive as are Muslim views on terrorism. Stay out of the military and don't support terrorism. You know that refusal to fight in combat is a courts martial offence, punishable by firing squad, don't you?

At least you don't advocate fragging your buddies, or could I trust you when the chips are down? (I know about when the chips are down, 'cause I was in the 82nd Airborne a couple 'a days)

Would you fight to defend this country or do you believe we should all be Muslim with all that it means for tolerance of others? Believe in the principals of Shari law, if I can call it that?

------------------------------
"To be honest, I haven't seen any Saudi hate literature in the Mosques that I've been to. I can't comment on the entire US though. To my knowledge, hate speech is removed immediately when we know of it."

Have you read the Freedom House Report? Have any American Muslims complained to the Saudi Embassy? Can you read Arabic? Where is the Muslim outrage that the Saudis would advocate destruction of this country, the killing of infidels?
------------------------------
"CAIR is a good organization and I am acquainted with their founders and many of their board members. CAIR's "threat" is completely overblown by this site and others. They are simply there to protect the rights of Muslims to not be unfairly treated. They do have faults, but they are in no way as portrayed by this site."

Wow!
Are you serious? Do you know what the background on the CAIR staff is? Of course I assume you support Hamas and all they stand for. Have you seen or heard any of the hate speech coming from the Muslim Student Association? I sure have and it's bad, Nazi bad, KKK bad.
------------------------------
"Feminists and others run with the notion that men are the standard for women, thereby enforcing a constant feeling of inferiority in women who must do everything that men do in order to feel equal.

Islam however does not treat women this way. Divine guidance informs us that men are not the standard and that women have their own standards and are therefore truly equal."

What a bunch of mealy mouthed double speak claptrap!
Why don't you let women decide what they want instead of spouting off about their feelings of inferiority?

Women are truly equal in Islam? What planet are you from?
-----------------------------
"Out of all the conferences, schools and mosques that I've been to, the closest to "hate speech" that I've heard was the denunciation of the Israeli Occupation in Palestine. But then again, that was not hate speech. So, I haven't really heard anything remotely resembling hate speech. Again, I can only speak for my own experience."

Would you like to see a couple of video clips on hate speech? From your friends in the Muslim Student Association no less. I sure have and It makes me sick. Do you deny that Islam seeks the total eradication of the Jews? It's in your holy book, it's in the Hadith, its written in Islamic graffiti, it comes from the mouth of Muslims! There's more hate speech in Islam than ever came out of Nazi Germany!

Please tell me it's not true! Please tell me you think the Koran needs editing!

BTW - Der Spiegel, n-tv, ard, Die Zeit and DW have no coverage on this story, but plenty on the operation Falcon.

Shukri: "CAIR is a good organization and I am acquainted with their founders and many of their board members"

Yes, I can see it now, you probably all share a temporay 9 year old wife - just so that you can walk in the footsteps of that prophet, Mohammed.

Ignore "shukri". He's a sand savage who's annoying everyone here on purpose.

Shukri:Muslim terrorists only cite verses from the Quran and events from the Sunnah(out of context) for the killing of non-Muslim civilians as a response to non-Muslim invasions and/or occupation"

Oh yes out of context. That's why in terrorist schools in the Middle east and Asia they actually spend years learning the teachings of Islam, from original sources. They spend about a third of the time learning to kill people. Muslim terrorists know more of the Koran and Hadith than you Shukri, either that or you're a lair.

Hows the hunt going for a 9 year old wife ripe for sex - just so you can follow in the footsteps of your prophet mohammed?

"Ignore "shukri". He's a sand savage who's annoying everyone here on purpose"

Agreed, but if he is ignored, and new people come to the site, they may think he is right because no one refutes him. Its what Shukri wants.

But if anyone new actually sits down and watches the replies, if the reader had half a brain they would see that Shukri's arguements DO NOT stand up to scrutiny, especially when they are refuted using his own texts.

Replying to him also shows the uninformed how much bull@#$! Islam is.

So the Germans are finally waking up to the reality that the old time Nazi allies (often the Muslims, they have a common "sport" - killing Jews), are taking over their land?

Shukri: Like I made mention of in the previous thread on Sgt. Akbar, according to Islamic Sacred Law, Muslims are obliged to obey the law of the land. The failure of insignificant numbers of Muslims to abide by this is no reason to demonize the overwhelming majority of law-abiding Muslims.

Posted by: Shukri

Linda: ROFL at you Shukri. "The gig is up the noose is out they finally found me... The renegade who had it made appears for a bounty" (ya'll I might have gotten the words to that song wrong) Shukri = Silly muslim fool if you think us dhimmi's ain't on to you!

Muslim "sacred law"? WTF is sacred in islam... the right way to behead an infidel? The right way to cut the hands and feet? The right way to rape and honor kill? The right way to perform female genital mutiliation? islam's Days are numbered; every day your cult exposes itself for what it truly is, and the dhimmi's stopped buying your taquiyya patties on 9/11.

To 3rdtimelucky - Waking up? They are excited about it. They are still in the stupor of Anti-Americanism. Schroder's Lone Ranger plea for weapons embargo lift to hurt America, but help their bottom line. Chirac's (May feces be upon him) claim that a No Vote on the EU constitution will help the US. That will motivate the core the french national! They are numb to pricklings that are causing their death.

And the Tamil Tigers, they're not terrorists, they're rebels. The muslims want to conquer and subjugate the world, the Tigers just want a seperate homeland for their people.

Posted by: A.G.Frederick III

Fred.... this is EXACTLY what the moslems claim they are doing. All moslems want a "separate homeland for their people", but the problem with moselms (hey that rhymes) is that they want to have a "separate homeland for their people" inside borders of non-moslem countries.

The Tamil Tigers are fighting the moslems but they seem to practice the "eye for an eye" doctrine. More power to 'em. Maybe we can follow their example someday.

Linda

"We'll step up the pressure on Islamist extremists even more and use every possible provision of immigration law to deport as fast as possible those who threaten us or preach hatred," said the Bavarian interior minister, Guenther Beckstein.

This step is in the right direction.

Muslims are here in the West as an invasion force, and will do anything to stay in the West. In the UK, muslims would rather stay in jail then go back to their "sacred" lands. Same holds in other European countries and the US.

It would be nice if muslims went back to their "sacred" sharia ruled lands, where ofcourse they will be happy and content. We OTH will take Christians in muslim nations, off their hands.

Agreed, but if he is ignored, and new people come to the site, they may think he is right because no one refutes him. Its what Shukri wants.

I am new to this blog, it only took me about a second or two to know that Shukri is a troll causing trouble. Hey Shukri, you are giving us professional trolls a bad name, now go eat a bacon sandwich for lunch.

Pegcity:

Yes the Tamil Tigers are a terrorist organization and their actions are reprehensible. Indeed, they were the originators of suicide bombings and used that tactic to assassinate Rajiv Ghandi. The big difference is that the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam have no intention of spreading their faith to "non-believers" by any means - violent or nonviolent. I'm not aware of any terrorist acts committed by the LTTE outside of Sri Lanka or Southern India or against any other religious or ethnic minorities outside of the above named area. This in no way justifies their actions but they are no threat to us.

Just_Linda:

Re: "And the Tamil Tigers, they're not terrorists, they're rebels"

Sorry but they are terrorists under any definition - see Rajiv Ghandi. The LTTE were the originators of suicide bombing and have used it many times against the civilian population of Sri Lanka. The main difference is that they do not wish to impose their beliefs on other religious/ethnic groups. They are terrorists but it is a local conflict.

Shukri and others above. It looks like a failure to communicate. We here in the west see planning and execution of terorist attacks by Islamic radicals all over the place--in many countries. Shukri can't can't see that there is a trend of Islamics committing most (but not all) terrorist acts and says we need to learn more about Islam, etc.
I don't think we all have to become experts in Islam to see the threat to us from terrorist actions, statements, and plans coming from Islamofascists.
So while we are all learning the truth about islam, just to be on the safe side, let's deport Radical Islamists out of the country and try to make sure that no more come in.

Although that "real followers of Islam" is in quotation marks, you will not be able to find it in anything I have actually written.

I apologize, Mr. Spencer, my mistake. I had meant to use italics and not quotes.

Anyway, if you think I am trying to "justify the premise that the 'real followers of Islam' are out to kill all non-Muslims," then clearly you have no idea what I have really written and really believe about these subjects.

I acknowledge my mistake.

Instead, you appear to believe, Mr. Spencer, that Muslims are out to take over the world("the West is facing a concerted effort by Islamic jihadists...to destroy the West and bring it forcibly into the Islamic world"). An accusation, that if made against Jews, would undeniably be anti-Semitism.

Every single act of terrorism by a Muslim is motivated by the invasion and occupation of Muslim lands by non-Muslims. Your misinterpretation of the Quran, Sunnah and works of the scholars of Islam in claiming that Muslims are out for a world take-over, is doing a great disservice to those actually trying to understand the threat of Muslim terrorism and how to eliminate it.

I'm sure that you have this book in your library. I advise you to please read it again and I encourage everyone else to go rent it from their libraries and read it.

You know that refusal to fight in combat is a courts martial offence, punishable by firing squad, don't you?

No, I didn't know that, BillR.

Would you fight to defend this country or do you believe we should all be Muslim with all that it means for tolerance of others? Believe in the principals of Shari law, if I can call it that?

I fully adhere to Shari'ah law. Meaning that if this country were attacked by terrorists, I would have no problem defending it. I also have no problem serving with a National Guard or Coast Guard unit so long as they are only deployed in country.

Have you read the Freedom House Report? Have any American Muslims complained to the Saudi Embassy? Can you read Arabic? Where is the Muslim outrage that the Saudis would advocate destruction of this country, the killing of infidels?

If the Freedom House Report was about some Mosque in Virginia carrying "hate literature", then yes I've read it. I remember reading that that Mosque pulled those texts from it's bookshelves.

I don't know if any American Muslims have complained to the Saudi Embassy.

Yes, I can read Arabic.

I have seen no text that calls for the destruction of any Western country nor have I seen any text that calls for the indiscrimnate killing of non-Muslims.

Do you know what the background on the CAIR staff is? Of course I assume you support Hamas and all they stand for. Have you seen or heard any of the hate speech coming from the Muslim Student Association?

Yes, I know the background of many of CAIR's staff. Yes I support Hamas, but I do not support their attacks in Israel "proper". No, I have not heard any hate speech coming from any MSA.

Why don't you let women decide what they want instead of spouting off about their feelings of inferiority?

If this "equality" that we talk about between men and women is in the fashion that modern and prehistoric feminists talk about it, then surely it is obvious that they are using the standards of men? I am, btw, repeating the statement of a Muslim woman.

Would you like to see a couple of video clips on hate speech?

Yes, I would BillR.

Do you deny that Islam seeks the total eradication of the Jews?

Yes I do. Btw, the closest people to the Muslims are the Orthodox Jews.

It's in your holy book, it's in the Hadith

No, its not. BillR, for every place in the Quran or Authentic Hadith that you show me, where Muslims are ordered to kill Jews simply because they are Jews, I will give you a $100.00. That's a challenge to everyone.

That's why in terrorist schools in the Middle east and Asia they actually spend years learning the teachings of Islam

Do please give me an example of a "terrorist school", 3rdtimelucky. For the record, I have attended madrassas in West Africa and Asia.

[What] is sacred in islam?

Linda, Adab is Sacred.

Shukri
9.1. Freedom from (all) obligations (is declared) from Allâh and His Messenger () to those of the Mushrikûn (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allâh), with whom you made a treaty.

Bukhari:V4B52N268 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘War is deceit.’”

Qur’an 4:142 “Surely the hypocrites strive to deceive Allah. He shall retaliate by deceiving them.”

This is a universal decleration of war on the entire world

Verse 2:193
Yusuf Ali:
And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.
Zohurul Hoque:
And fight them until there is no persecution, and religion is only for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostilities except against the unjust.
T. J. Irving:
Fight them until there is no more subversion and [all] religion belongs to God. If they stop, let there be no [more] hostility except toward wrongdoers.
T.U. Hilali-M. Khan:
And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone). But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)
M. Pickthall:
And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers.
M.H. Shakir:
And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors.

2.193. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone). But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)

Shukri:"No, its not. BillR, for every place in the Quran or Authentic Hadith that you show me, where Muslims are ordered to kill Jews simply because they are Jews, I will give you a $100.00. That's a challenge to everyone."

Koran 9:29 Fight against such of those whom the Scriptures were given (Jews and Christians) as beleive [not] in Allah......who do not forbid what Allah and his Apostle have forbidden (eg claiming that Jesus is the Son of God - see 5:17), and DO NOT EMBRACE THE TRUE FAITH UNTIL THEY [any who survive the war mentioned at the beginning of the verse] PAY TRIBUTE OUT OF HAND AND ARE UTTERLY SUBDUED - Koran 9:29

So where is my $100??? Please donate it to the Israeli Embassy closest to you. Scan the receipt, with contact phone numbers (so we can all verify if you have really honoured your bet) and post it here on Jihad watch - thanks!

Now I could mention the other 109 war verses commanding Muslims to kill infidels (NOTE - JEWS AND CHRISTIANS FALL INTO THIS CATEGORY) - but I doubt Shukri you are even going to honour the $100 bet he made to all, let alone me for quoting Koran 9:29.

But I will give you 12 hours.

Shukri - the Muslim who supports sex with 9 year olds because MoHAMmed had sex with 9 year olds. I suppose Mohammeds motto was, "old enough bleed, old enough to breed"

Shukri
"Every single act of terrorism by a Muslim is motivated by the invasion and occupation of Muslim lands by non-Muslims."

You Muslims are on your way to occupying European countries through immigration and sky high birthrates. Your big Muslim families are supported by the European welfare sytems. So it's OK for Muslims to occupy and invade Europe, Kosovo, Lebanon but when the United States gets rid of a mass murderer Saddam Hussein, that is an occupation. That justifies mass murder in the Madrid train bombings killing Spanish civilians. That justifies the mass murder of Shi'ite Muslims by Zarqaqi's men and the Baathists Your Muslim thought process is insanely illogical.

Shukri - this one is for all the Israeli children maimed by your Islamic Revival Meetings (suicide bombers)

Koran 4:47 You to whom the scriptures were given (again Jews and Christians - and yes Shukri that is in context). Believe in that which We have revealed, confirming your own Scriptures, BEFORE WE OBLITERATE YOUR FACES (hmmmm spiritualise that one!) AND TURN THEM BACKWARD (that is twist your heads around backward), or lay OUR CURSE ON YOU (Koran 4:47)

Shukri - please donate that $100 - to the Israeli embassy also, again scan the receipt and post it here for all to see. You are a "man" of your word arn't you?

Shukri - the Muslim scholar who approves of sex with 9 year old girls - 'cause Mohammed did it.

'That justifies mass murder in the Madrid train bombings killing Spanish civilians'~ Dennis

Dennis, that was their excuse. The planning for the Spain bombing started around the time of 911, long before we went to war against Saddam as part of the War on Terror.

Shukri - I want the rest of the money also donated to the Israeli Embassy to help the victoms of sucide bombers (Islamic Revival Meetings). Seeing Jews and Christians are infidels here are the rest of the killing verses, that I know of from your "holy" Koran:-

*Islam does advocate peace - but only on ITS terms
*There are around 109 war verses in the Koran. That makes 1 of every 55 verses in the Koran is about war. Hmmmmmmm that says something doesn't it??
*As for the 109 war verses try: Sura 2:178,179, 190 ,191, 193,216, 217, 218, 244,
Sura 3:121, 122, 123, 124, 125, 140, 155, 165, 166, 167,169, 173,195,
Sura 4:71, 72, 74, 75, 76, 77, 84, 89, 91, 94, 95, 100, 102, 104,
Sura 5:33, 35, 38
Sura 8:5, 7, 9, 12, 15, 16, 17, 39, 42, 45, 59, 65, 67, 69, 71, 72, 74, 75
Sura 9:5, 12, 13, 14, 16, 19, 20, 24, 25, 26, 29, 36, 38, 39, 41, 44, 52, 73, 81, 83, 86, 88, 92, 111, 120, 122, 123
Sura 16:110
Sura22:39, 78
Sura 29:6, 69 (gee with Mohammed's pre occupation with sex - you'd think that verse would be about something else)
Sura 33:7, 18, 20, 25, 26,
Sura 47:20
Sura48:16, 22
Sura 59:2, 5, 6, 7, 8, 14
Sura60:9
Sura 61:4
Sura 63:4
Sura 64:14
Sura66:9
Sura 73:20

Then we have the lovely chapter 3 (Sura 3) where 1 out of every 7.4 verses is threatening people with hell.

Shukri - the Muslim scholar who approves of sex with 9 year old girls because Mohammed did it with nine year olds.

Gary
The planning may have begun who knows when but the Madrid bombing were deigned to get Spain to bug out of Iraq. Meanwhile Muslims invade Spain en masse. Muslim immigration to Europe is tremendous. It's an invasion and occupation Shukri is part of.

Where do you live Shukri? In the West or in a Muslim nation?

Source:
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=20214&dgn=4

In this day and Age is Jihad Fard on every able bodied Man?

Answer :

Praise be to Allaah.

Firstly:

Jihaad is of various kinds, some of which are obligatory upon everyone who is accountable, and some are obligatory upon the community as a whole – if some people undertake them then the rest are relieved of the obligation. And some kinds of jihad are mustahabb.

Jihad al-nafs (jihad against one’s self) and jihad al-Shaytaan (jihad against the Shaytaan) are obligatory upon everyone who is accountable. Jihad against the munaafiqeen (hypocrites), kaafirs (disbelievers) and leaders of oppression and innovation is obligatory upon the community as a whole. Physical jihad (i.e. fighting) against the kaafirs may become an individual obligation upon everyone who is able to do it in certain circumstances, which will be described below.

Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

Once this is understood, then jihad is of four kinds: Jihad al-nafs (jihad against one’s self), jihad al-Shaytaan (jihad against the Shaytaan), jihad against the kaafirs and jihad against the hypocrites.

Jihad al-nafs (jihad against one’s self) is of four kinds:

1 – Striving to learn the teachings of Islam without which one cannot attain success and happiness in this world or in the Hereafter; if this is missing then one is doomed to misery in this world and in the Hereafter.

2 – Striving to make oneself act in accordance with what one has learned. Simply knowing without acting, even though it may not cause any harm, is not going to bring any benefit.

3 – Striving to call others to Islam, teaching those who do not know about it. Otherwise one will be one of those who conceal that which Allaah has revealed of guidance and teaching, and it will not benefit him or save him from the punishment of Allaah.

4 – Striving to bear patiently the difficulties involved in calling people to Allaah and the insults of people; bearing all that for the sake of Allaah.

If a person achieves all these four levels, then he will be one of the rabbaaniyyeen (learned men of religion who practise what they know and also preach to others. Cf. Aal ‘Imraan 3:79). The salaf were agreed that the scholar does not deserve to be called a rabbaani unless he knows the truth, acts in accordance with it and teaches it to others. Whoever teaches, acts in accordance with his knowledge and has knowledge, he will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Jihad against the Shaytaan is of two types:

1 – Warding off the doubts that he stirs up to undermine faith.

2 – Striving against him to ward off the corrupt desires that he provokes.

The first jihad is followed by certainty of faith, and the second is followed by patience. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And We made from among them (Children of Israel), leaders, giving guidance under Our Command, when they were patient and used to believe with certainty in Our Ayaat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.)”

[al-Sajdah 32:24]

Allaah tells us that leadership in religion is attained through patience and certainty of faith. Patience wards off desires and certainty wards off doubts.

Jihad against the kaafirs and hypocrites is of four kinds: with the heart, the tongue, one’s wealth and oneself. Jihad against the kaafirs is more along the lines of physical fighting whereas jihad against the hypocrites is more along the lines of using words and ideas.

Jihad against the leaders of oppression and innovation is of three kinds:

1 – Jihad with one's hand (i.e., physical jihad, fighting) if one is able. If that is not possible then it should be with one's tongue (i.e., by speaking out). If that is not possible then it should be with one's heart (i.e., by hating the evil and feeling that it is wrong).

These are the thirteen types of jihad, and “Whoever dies without having fought or having resolved to fight has died following one of the branches of hypocrisy.” (Narrated by Muslim, 1910).

Zaad al-Ma’aad, 3/9-11)

Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

“Jihad is of various kinds, with one’s self, one's wealth, by making du’aa’, by teaching and guiding, by helping to do good in any way. The greatest form of jihad is jihad with one’s self (i.e., going oneself and fighting), followed by jihad with one's wealth, jihad by speaking out and guiding others. Da’wah is also part of jihad. But going out oneself to fight in jihad is the highest form.

(Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, 7/334, 335)

Secondly:

The idea of waging physical jihad against the kaafirs went through a number of stages, depending on the state in which the Muslim ummah was. Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

“The first thing which his Lord revealed to him was to read in the name of his Lord who had created. That was the beginning of his Prophethood, where Allaah commanded him to recite to himself but He did not yet command him to convey that. Then He revealed the words (interpretation of the meaning:

‘O you (Muhammad) enveloped in garments!

Arise and warn!’

[al-Muddaththir 74:1-2]

So he became a Prophet with the word ‘Iqra (Read!) and he became a Messenger with the words, ‘O you (Muhammad) enveloped in garments…’ Then Allaah commanded him to warn his closest kinsmen, then to warn his people, then to warn the Arabs around them, then to warn all the Arabs, then to warn all of mankind. He continued to call them for over ten years from the beginning of his Prophethood, without fighting or imposing the jizyah; he was commanded to refrain, to be patient and to be forbearing.

Then permission was given to him to migrate, and permission was given to him to fight.

Then he was commanded to fight those who fought him, and to refrain from fighting those who left him alone and did not fight him.

Then Allaah commanded him to fight the mushrikeen so that the religion would all be for Allaah.

After jihad was enjoined upon him, the kaafirs then fell into three categories: those with whom there was a truce or peace treaty; those with whom he was at war; and those who lived under the rule and protection of the Islamic state.”

(Zaad al-Ma’aad, 3/159)

Thirdly:

The ruling on physical jihad against the kaafirs is that this is an obligation on the community as a whole (fard kafaayah).

Ibn Qudaamah said:

“Jihaad is an obligation upon the community; if some people undertake it, the rest are relieved of the obligation.”

What fard kafaayah means is that if it is not undertaken by enough people, then all the people are guilty of sin, but if enough people undertakes it, the rest will be relieved of blame. Initially the command is addressed to all of them, as in the case of an individual obligation (fard ‘ayn), but then in the case of fard kafaayah the obligation is dropped if enough of the people undertake to do it, unlike the case with fard ‘ayn where the obligation is not dropped if someone else does it. Jihad is a fard kafaayah, according to the majority of scholars.”

(al-Mughni, 9/163)

Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz said:

“We have previously explained on more than one occasion that jihad is fard kafaayah, not fard ‘ayn. All Muslims are enjoined to support their brothers with their selves (i.e., physically, by joining them), or with money, weapons, da’wah and advice. If enough of them go out (to fight), the rest are freed from sin, but if none of them do that then all of them are sinners.

The Muslims in Saudi Arabia, Africa, North Africa and elsewhere are obliged to do their utmost, and if there is a jihad in one country, the surrounding countries should hasten to help them, the closest then the next closest. If one or two states, or three or more, manage to fulfil the obligation, then the rest are freed of responsibility. They deserve to be supported, and it is obligatory to help them against their enemies, because they are oppressed. Allaah has enjoined jihad upon all Muslims, and they must fight against the enemies of Allaah until their brothers are victorious. If they fail to do that then they are sinners, but if sufficient people undertake to do that, then the rest are absolved of sin.”

(Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, 7/335)

Fourthly:

Physical jihad against the kaafirs becomes obligatory in four cases, which are:

1 – When the Muslim is present in a jihad situation.

2 – When the enemy has come and attacked a Muslim land

3 – When the ruler mobilizes the people, they must respond.

4 – When a person is needed and no one else can do the task except him.

Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen said:

Jihad is obligatory and becomes fard ‘ayn if a person is present where fighting is going on. This is the first of the situations in which jihad becomes an individual obligation, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“O you who believe! When you meet those who disbelieve, in a battlefield, never turn your backs to them.

And whoever turns his back to them on such a day — unless it be a stratagem of war, or to retreat to a troop (of his own), — he indeed has drawn upon himself wrath from Allaah. And his abode is Hell, and worst indeed is that destination!”

[al-Anfaal 8:16]

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said that running away on the day when the army is advancing is one of the sins that doom a person to Hell. He said: “Avoid the seven sins that doom a person to Hell…” among which he mentioned running away on the day when the army is advancing (agreed upon). But Allaah has made exceptions in two cases:

1- When it is a military manoeuvre, in the sense that he is leaving to bring reinforcements.

2- When he is going to join another group, when he has been told that there is a group of Muslims elsewhere who are about to be defeated, so he goes to join them in order to strengthen their numbers. This is subject to the condition that there is no risk to the group he is in; if there is a risk to the group that he is in, then it is not permissible for him to go to the other group. In this case (jihad) is an individual obligation upon him (fard ‘ayn) and it is not permissible for him to leave.

The second situation (in which jihad becomes an individual obligation) is when a city is besieged by the enemy. Then he has to fight in defence of the city, because when the city is besieged there is no alternative but to defend it, for if the enemy is going to prevent people from leaving the city or entering it, and prevent provisions from reaching it, and other things which are well known, then in this case the people of the city are obliged to fight in order to defend their city.

The third situation is when the leader tells the people to mobilize; the leader (imam) is the highest authority in the state, but he need not necessarily be the leader of all the Muslims, because there has been no leader of all the Muslims (khaleefah) for a long time. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Listen and obey, even if you are ruled by an Abyssinian slave.” So if a man becomes a leader, then his word is to be heeded and his commands are to obeyed.

(al-Sharh al-Mumti’, 8/10-12).

Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid (www.islam-qa.com)

Shukri :"Do please give me an example of a "terrorist school", 3rdtimelucky. For the record, I have attended madrassas in West Africa and Asia."

Oh gee I don't know... how about the entire country of Iran?, most of Pakistan (where I to have a friend who's Christian relative was murdered last week in a display of Muslim love). I have also met an Iranian (who fled his peace loving country) after serving as a politian there, AND WHO ALSO TRAINED TERRORISTS IN THESE CAMPS - he showed us all pictures. Thank Yeshua that he saw the LIGHT. He now travels the country countering all the crap people like you spew out Shukri.

Or what about the "West Bank"? Which is really Judea and Sumeria - Jewish land. I suppose all that footage I have of Yasser Arafat stating that children strapping bombs to themselves pleases Allah is false?

To all
_______

Shukri is like the moderate Muhammadans who often declare that Muhammad only fought defensive wars, only fought to defend the Ummah. Which is clearly a maddening lie. Islam expanded greatly while Muhammad was alive, such expansion doesn't happen from defensive wars. The four caliphs after Muhammad continued the conquests of Islam

AvrageJoe - Funny how the Creator of the universe needs Muzzies to protect his words and ideology.

Truely amazing,when people respond with anger to mass murder by Jihadists killing in the name of their God the first thing Muslims do is perceive it as "Backlash".
When Muslims fail to clean up the preaching of hate in their Mosques and force non-Muslims
to act on it,they then scream "Islamophobia"
and "Racism".
You would think that intelligent sane people would want their Faith to be purged of the evil-doers that do a injustice to the followers,but then again,I stated "Intelligent,Sane" people that would be happy to see others care enough
to help rid the bad-apples from the Mosques.

Again I'd like to point out that there are still Muslims out there that will defend Islam
by claiming it has slaughtered less people than other Faiths.

Shukri - actions always speak louder than words. In every corner of the globe, where there are Muslims there are wars.

Middle east - simmering pot of hate where daily killing of the infidels goes on, along with a perpetual war against Israel.

Shukri - tell everyone what the first statement / objective is on the PLO charter.

then we have Russia, Pakitstan, China (man I hope the Muslims peeve the Chinese off in a major way), Spain, Europe, Phillipines, Thailand, Indonesia, All of Africa (lets not forget the infidel killing in Rhawanda)- every corner of the globe.

Yep Islam truly wants peace. A piece of everybody's soul and Sovereignty. I remeber the Nazis said they were peaceful also....

Shukri - the Muslim Scholar who approves of sex with nine year olds because Mohammed had sex with them.

"Fight those who do not believe in Allah…And the Jews say Ezra is the son of God; and the Christians say Christ is the son of God; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; Allah’s curse be on them; how they are turned away!" (Koran 9:29-30)

If you want to know the absolute truth about Islam, ask any Muslim what would happen if he left Islam. There is absolutely no controversy on this, it would mean DEATH, not only to the ex-Muslim, but often to his family as well.

Allah's apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah" (Hadith 4:52:196)

Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve (8:55)

When the sacred months have passed away, THEN SLAY THE IDOLATERS WHEREVER YOU FIND THEM, AND TAKE THEM CAPTIVES AND BESIEGE THEM AND LIE IN WAIT FOR THEM IN EVERY AMBUSH, then if they repent and keep up prayer [become believers] and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them (9:5)

And if they intend to act unfaithfully towards you, so indeed they acted unfaithfully towards Allah before, but He GAVE YOU MASTERY OVER THEM (8:71)

FIGHT THEM: ALLAH WILL PUNISH THEM BY YOUR HANDS AND BRING THEM TO DISGRACE, AND ASSIST YOU AGAINST THEM. (9:14)

FIGHT THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE IN ALLAH, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, NOR FOLLOW THE RELIGION OF TRUTH, OUT OF THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN GIVEN THE BOOK [Christians and Jews], until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and THEY ARE IN A STATE OF SUBJECTION. (9:29)

The punishment of those who pit themselves against Allah and His Messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement, except those who repent before you have them in your power (5:33-34)

Believe therefore in Allah and His apostles, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one god: far be it from his glory that He should have a son. (4:171)

What is the matter with you, then, that you have become two parties about the hypocrites, while Allah has made them return (to unbelief) for what they have earned? Do you wish to guide him whom Allah has caused to err? And whomsoever Allah causes to err, you shall by no means find a way for him. THEY DESIRE THAT YOU SHOULD DISBELIEVE AS THEY HAVE DISBELIEVED, SO THAT YOU MIGHT BE ALL ALIKE; THEREFORE TAKE NOT FROM AMONG THEM FRIENDS UNTIL THEY FLY THEIR HOMES IN ALLAH'S WAY; BUT IF THEY TURN BACK, THEN SEIZE THEM AND KILL THEM WHEREVER YOU FIND THEM, AND TAKE NOT FROM AMONG THEM A FRIEND OR A HELPER. (4:89)

I will take mine in American Dollars please.

[yes the Jews and Muslims are both descendents of Abraham, but here is the attitude towards descendants of Abraham through Isaac (the Jews]: "If they find you, they will be your enemies, and will stretch forth towards you their hands and their tongues with evil, and they ardently desire that you may disbelieve. Your relationship would not profit you, nor your children, on the day of resurrection; He will decide between you; and Allah sees what you do. Indeed, there is for you a good example in Abraham and those with him when they said to their people: Surely we are clear of you and of what you serve besides Allah; WE DECLARE OURSELVES TO BE CLEAR OF YOU, AND ENMITY AND HATRED HAVE APPEARED BETWEEN US AND YOU FOREVER UNTIL YOU BELIEVE IN ALLAH ALONE (60:2-4

ArchAngel said:If you want to know the absolute truth about Islam, ask any Muslim what would happen if he left Islam. There is absolutely no controversy on this, it would mean DEATH, not only to the ex-Muslim, but often to his family as well.

Its true. I work with a somebody who's husband left Islam. I have people in my own family who have left Islam. All of them are fearful, including their own blood relatives.

As for my co worker, a good friend of theirs who travells the country exposing the lies of Islam, she was telling me only yesterday that it is not uncommom for him to get up to 3 death threats a day. As mentioned before, his Christian relative in Pakistan was murdered a few days back, probably because they have been unable to get him in the west (yet).

Shukri - the Muslim scholar who approves of sex with 9 year old girls - 'cause Mohammed did it.

Before too long, the law of the land will be: "No muslims; No mosques".

Shukri - I almost forgot. Regarding the money you owe me on the bet. After you have donated the money to the Israeli Embassy, can you also personally show the receipt to your Muslim buddies. I want to see Muslim love in action (better that type of love, than that with 9 year old girls right Shukri??? or is that sick lust?)

3rdtimelucky, sorry but none of the quoted verses can be taken as an authorization to kill Jews for being Jews.

It's an invasion and occupation Shukri is part of.

Where do you live Shukri? In the West or in a Muslim nation?

Seriously, dennisw, the paranoia about Muslims taking over the world is hilarious. For the record I live in the US. =)

Shukri is like the moderate Muhammadans who often declare that Muhammad only fought defensive wars...Which is clearly a maddening lie.

I don't claim that all the wars were defensive in that Muslims waited to be attacked before they defended themselves. Rather the wars were both pro-active defense as well as offensive against those plotting to attack the Muslims.

Funny how the Creator of the universe needs Muzzies to protect his words and ideology.

3rdtimelucky, the Lord, glorious and majestic be he, does not need any lowly humans to defend him. We do so only out of love and yearning for the Supreme Being.

lets not forget the infidel killing in Rhawanda

Rwanda was Christian vs. Christian. The Muslims sheltered and protected the Christian Tutsi's from their murderous Christian counterparts.

See for yourself

There is absolutely no controversy on this, it would mean DEATH, not only to the ex-Muslim, but often to his family as well.

Archangel, please read

For the record I live in the US. =)

Simple things like "consent of the governed" or "freedom of religion" just fly over your head. You would destroy all human progress since the Middle Ages - all in the West - if your religion/military strategy/politics/farting instructions were allowed to dominate.

Simple things like "consent of the governed" or "freedom of religion" just fly over your head.

Not at all. I don't have any problem with those principles and neither do the overwhelming majority of Muslims in the West.

Strange eh? We, the western nations, let these bloodthirsty terrorists into our countries. Whereas we can not go to a moslem country and set up a Christian Church,Bible study, can't proselyte. As well we would be under the barbaric, savage, inhuman sharia law. Yet these pagans can do all of the above in our nations as well as treating our laws and customs with utmost contempt. Of course the "good" moslems say it is not us it's them and like you we do not like what 'they' are doing. Utter garbage they could stop it tomorrow.I can see in the not too distant future such an uprising against these miserable Christ denying ignorant pagans that will stun our stupidly compliant governments. Beware pagans when we are roused there will be stopping us I'm afraid. Disgusted, numbat

"Rather the wars were both pro-active defense as well as offensive against those plotting to attack the Muslims."

Of course, makes perfect sense...

Moose

Shukri

Of course you live in the West. In the USA specifically. You and your family are invading and occupying Christian lands. Get the hell out. Go back to your Muslim paradises on earth. Stop trying to take over Europe with your immigration invasion and all your babies that the Europeans pay for with welfare payments. You don't support your children through honest work. The Europeans pay for them.

You half-psycho Muslims detest it when Europeans/Americans live in your Muslim countries and get rid of your murderous dictators for you such as Saddam. Ya'll were too chicken shit to get rid of Saddam and his sons so we had to do it for you

Shukri

Of course you live in the West. In the USA specifically. You and your family are invading and occupying Christian lands. Get the hell out. Go back to your Muslim paradises on earth. Stop trying to take over Europe with your immigration invasion and all your babies that the Europeans pay for with welfare payments. You don't support your children through honest work. The Europeans pay for them.

You half-psycho Muslims detest it when Europeans/Americans live in your Muslim countries and get rid of your murderous dictators for you such as Saddam. Ya'll were too chicken shit to get rid of Saddam and his sons so we had to do it for you

Shukri

Of course you live in the West. In the USA specifically. You and your family are invading and occupying Christian lands. Get the hell out. Go back to your Muslim paradises on earth. Stop trying to take over Europe with your immigration invasion and all your babies that the Europeans pay for with welfare payments. You don't support your children through honest work. The Europeans pay for them.

You half-psycho Muslims detest it when Europeans/Americans live in your Muslim countries and get rid of your murderous dictators for you such as Saddam. Ya'll were too chicken shit to get rid of Saddam and his sons so we had to do it for you

triple post ... sorry...

German police free girl hostages

Police ended the five-hour hostage drama without bloodshed
Police in north-west Germany have stormed a cellar and freed four schoolgirls who were held hostage by an Iranian man armed with a kitchen knife.
The man snatched the teenage girls on Tuesday after seizing a bus filled with schoolchildren in Ennepetal, in the state of North Rhine-Westphalia.

According to eyewitnesses, the man had said he wanted to get the German authorities to let his family join him.

The man had reportedly pulled the girls off the bus and into a nearby house.

The incident began at about 1300 (1100 GMT) in Ennepetal, a town near the industrial Ruhr Valley.

The kidnapper, aged about 50, reportedly dragged the children from the bus when it stopped at the roadside.

As a resident opened her front door, the kidnapper pushed her aside and forced the children in, the reports said.

Police quoted by Reuters said the kidnapper was still alive after the police assault.

A boy who witnessed the hostage-taking on the bus said the kidnapper had tied several girls together by their belt buckles with a cord.

Marvin Schulte, 16, said "he didn't seem aggressive".

"He said we should stay quiet and he didn't want to harm us," said Schulte, quoted by the Associated Press.

Your comment suckri

Come on Shifti
Lets be having you !!!

To quote "Not at all. I don't have any problem with those principles and neither do the overwhelming majority of Muslims in the West."

You don't have a problem with the rape of the child Aisha either do you? And to prove it you keep directing me to a site that glories in it, berating "modern" Moslems who do have a gut feeling that this was/is not right.

I won't repeat my comments from the CAIR Texas Chapter story of 14th April, anybody who was interested saw them. Neither will I repeat the contrast with our Lord healing the 12 year old daughter of Jairus. Instead, its a nice morning for some doggerel.

Shifty,
Is not so nifty.
He is not a droll troll,
But supports a vile,
Paedophile.

Apologies to all poets, everywhere.

Shurki: You live in the United States? Hey Shurki, How do you like freedom? Don't you feel guilty about your fellow Muslims not having the freedom you have? Lets get together and have some bacon and eggs for breakfast.

Shurki: I honestly tried to read that piece of garbage you asked me to read...I got thru 3 paragraphs and was ready to throw up. Let me state this as simply as I can.

Any religion that requires a "religion police" as in Saudi Arabia, is no religion. When I start seeing Roman Catholic and Christian Churches being built in Saudi Arabia, come and talk to me then. You have no concept of what Freedom of religion means.

"I remember reading that that Mosque pulled those texts from it's bookshelves". Shurki: Why were these texts there in the first place, How did they get there, and how come they were only removed after being discovered by the media.

Understand this: I know you fucks have been stationing your troops all over the world, but know this, Americans will blow you fucking heads off whenever you idiots start your shit. Count on it. There is no doubt that this will not end until there is a war between the religions, and you fucks WILL BE on the losing side.

Shurki: The way I see it, you owe me $1000.00. The only question I have is this.

Are you going to be a MAN and live up to your end of the bargain, this has nothing to do with religion, this is about being a MAN OF YOUR WORD. I won't be holding my breathe.

"I fully adhere to Shari'ah law."

Christ, just when I thought Shukri, despite his logical flaws, sounded half moderate, he hits you with this.

No way no how man. Shariah is just bottom of the barrel, if you ask me. In fact, Shariah is a thousand times more worrysome to me than being the personal victim of a terrorist act. I find Shariah law an ideology vastly more objectionable than communism, which I also regard as an abomination. I don't see how any reasonably enlightened person could have nothing but contempt for such primitive laws. Utterly disgusting. Shukri, I spit on your prophet (curse his name).

This comment page is the most refreshing thing i have had for years.Having the privilage of standing in the middle of the Soviet Union when its human ideaology fell apart around me, i comfort myself with the knowledge that the same thing will be the food of all people who put there hope in the ideaology of mohamad

Whereas we can not go to a moslem country and set up a Christian Church,Bible study, can't proselyte.

numbat, We believe that Islam is true. Why then should we allow someone who contradicts Islam to proselytize and call to what we believe is an incorrect message?

You and your family are invading and occupying Christian lands.

Dennisw: Nonsense, sir. We are law abiding citizens and we are in this country legally. We do not have any intention of invading "Christian" countries as you call it. For the record, the US has separation of Church and State and is hence, not a Christian country.

Marvin Schulte, 16, said "he didn't seem aggressive".

"He said we should stay quiet and he didn't want to harm us," said Schulte, quoted by the Associated Press.

Your comment suckri

Shiva, your play of words on my name is childish. Ignoring that, the story you mentioned has nothing to do with Islam. The guy just wanted to have his family with him. Islam had nothing to do with him taking people hostage.

You don't have a problem with the rape of the child Aisha either do you?

Granny Weathermax. Aisha, may God be pleased with her, was not a child.

Child: A person between birth and puberty.

Aisha: past puberty.

Hence, she was not a child. I hope that you will take the trouble to read the article.

that this was/is not right.

Please, Mrs. Weathermax. Can't you see the fallacy in judging an event that occured 1,400 years ago by the standards of modern Western thought?

Shurki: You live in the United States? Hey Shurki, How do you like freedom? Don't you feel guilty about your fellow Muslims not having the freedom you have? Lets get together and have some bacon and eggs for breakfast.

Yes, archangel, I'm in the US. I'm not sure to what freedom you are referring to. I do feel guilty that Muslims in Iraq and Palestine are subjugated under Occupation due to the government of the country that I am living in. I would be pleased to have breakfast with you if you ditch the bacon(I'm serious. email me: shukris@yahoo.com). I am not eager to eat an animal that subsists on feces and revels in muck.

Any religion that requires a "religion police" as in Saudi Arabia, is no religion.

I am happy to inform you that Islam has no religion police. The police in Saudi are there to enforce the law of Saudi Arabia. Sacred Law in Islam has a basis of morals and ethics. This Law, which we believe to be Divine, is there to protect and ensure a safe and secure society.

Why were these texts there in the first place, How did they get there, and how come they were only removed after being discovered by the media.

I don't know why the texts were there. I don't know how they got there. I would hazard a guess that even the Mosque administrators did not know of their content. When it was pointed out to them, they promptly removed it.

There is no doubt that this will not end until there is a war between the religions, and you ... WILL BE on the losing side.

Thank God then that we are not out for a religious war.

Are you going to be a MAN and live up to your end of the bargain, this has nothing to do with religion, this is about being a MAN OF YOUR WORD. I won't be holding my breathe.

Sorry ArchAngel, I cannot see any of the verses that you quoted as being an order to kill Jews just for being Jews, which was my original request. If you are in my neck of the woods though, I would be happy to treat you to dinner.

No way no how man. Shariah is just bottom of the barrel, if you ask me. In fact, Shariah is a thousand times more worrysome to me than being the personal victim of a terrorist act.

spect8or, what is your specific beef with Shari'ah law?

I don't see how any reasonably enlightened person could have nothing but contempt for such primitive laws

I have studied Shari'ah law(the basics) with erudite scholars of Islam and I have found it to be perfectly civilized and just. I have no doubt that you have misunderstandings based on how the Mass Media reports on Shari'ah. I would be happy to correct any misunderstandings about Islamic Sacred Law that you might have.

Sunni Path (resource on Islamic Law)

LOL, Shurki, you're always good for a laugh.

So muslim prosetylzers are all right in the West, but not Christian/Jewish ones in the East? Well, then, I'm sure you won't object when imams get booted out of Western countries - since, after all, Western nations' majority religious members also feel that islam is not true. Thus, why then should we allow imams in our nations? It's an incorrect message, clearly.

"You and your family are invading and occupying Christian lands."
Shurki: Nonsense, sir. We are law abiding citizens and we are in this country legally. We do not have any intention of invading "Christian" countries as you call it. For the record, the US has separation of Church and State and is hence, not a Christian country.

Ah - then we can evict your invading peoples out anyway as general disturbers of the peace. Your argument is based on thin legal waters.

"You don't have a problem with the rape of the child Aisha either do you?"
Shurki: "Aisha, may God be pleased with her, was not a child."

Regrets, Shurki, but this is a lie. I have already refuted this lie. Aisha was indeed a child, as the site you linked clearly indicated; only SOME children experience puberty at 9, and only the sickest human imaginable would take advantage of such a child. This is also in the article, which I hope you will take the time to read. You later, however, acknowledge some of your own deliberate deceptions with "Can't you see the fallacy in judging an event that occured 1,400 years ago by the standards of modern Western thought?"
Ah. So then, you admit the Crusades were justified? Since we can't judge anything by present-day values. Please cease in insulting us and our belief systems with these deliberate lies. Can you explain some of the factors that drove Mohammed to paedophilia? Was he a fornicator?

Also, Shurki, pigs do not subsist on feces. I submit that you know absolutely nothing about animal husbandry; or, for that matter, biochemical conversion and, I would guess, molecular theory. It is a common fallacy to actually believe that "you are what you eat". LOL.

"I am happy to inform you that Islam has no religion police. The police in Saudi are there to enforce the law of Saudi Arabia. Sacred Law in Islam has a basis of morals and ethics. This Law, which we believe to be Divine, is there to protect and ensure a safe and secure society."

The first part of this is a lie. The second part reveals that Shurki is probably a Wahhabi. He then argues the exact same thing: there are no religious police, but there are police that enforce a code of ethics based on religion. Shurki, if you weren't so stupid, you'd be dangerous.

When you're done insulting our intelligence, are you going to make arrangements to pay Archangel? And me?

The major objections to sharia law include: oppression of women, contempt for minorities, and the enforcement of religious laws made to punish (and, in places, kill) those minorities. I think you may need a refresher course in your law. Of course, you've admitted already that sharia would be imposed by force where possible, so I think we understand well enough your belief system.

Then again, I apologize: I do ask a bit much of you. I ask you to think. Sorry.

Geoff

"I have studied Shari'ah law(the basics) with erudite scholars of Islam and I have found it to be perfectly civilized and just. I have no doubt that you have misunderstandings based on how the Mass Media reports on Shari'ah. I would be happy to correct any misunderstandings about Islamic Sacred Law that you might have."

Shukri, any "misunderstanding" I may have about Shariah is absolutely secondary. The point is, it is religious law and I want absolutely no part of such a sham. Christians, Jews, Muslims, the whole lot of them. Screw their damn laws. If someone wants to live like a primitive, fine, but I would rather die than submit to lunatic laws like those Mohammed and his buddies dreamt up.

"Please, Mrs. Weathermax. Can't you see the fallacy in judging an event that occured 1,400 years ago by the standards of modern Western thought?"

Whew, I'm so RELIEVED that muslims like Shukri agree that muhammad was NOT the "ideal man" whose behavior is to be emulated "for all time and in all places".

BTW, too bad Khomeini didn't get that when he lowered the marriageable age to NINE in Iran when he came to power to follow the "prophet's" example.

The marriageable age of GIRLS, that is.

CGW
One of the most ludicrous things of the whole exchange, was on the site he kept directing us to. That one of the reasons for the Aisha marriage was to destroy a superstition about it being unlucky to marry in that particular month.

Yes CGW

99% of Islam is their slavish emulation of Muhammad. Demanded by the Koran because he's the most perfect man who ever lived, the most worthy model for all mankind to emulate. To live their lives the way Muhammad lived his, is to be a true Muslim

This has all the marks of a cult and pagan one at that with it's idolatry of Muhammad

From Shukris link to apostasy, where one would assume, to get a more watered down and Western friendly version on the punishment for apostasy.

A former kãfir who became a Muslim and then apostates (Murtad Milli) is given a second chance; if he repents, then he is not to be killed. But one who is born as a Muslim and then apostates (Murtad Fitri) he is to be killed even if he repents. His repentance might be accepted by Allãh but he still has to go through the punishment prescribed for his treason in this world.

God, what a despicable and vile religion islam is. In someways, islam is like the cosa nostra, though not as benign.

Fear of death is why muslims cannot leave their religion. In someways I feel real pity and sympathy for muslims, trapped in a 7th century ideology, with no escape except through death. No wonder they welcome death.

So Shukri reckons infidels are not Jews or Christians? Or does he?

Obviously he is much more learned than the Clerics in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran, all of North Africa etc.

I repeat Shukri -

Koran 9:29 Fight against such of those whom the Scriptures were given (Jews and Christians) as beleive [not] in Allah......who do not forbid what Allah and his Apostle have forbidden (eg claiming that Jesus is the Son of God - see 5:17), and DO NOT EMBRACE THE TRUE FAITH UNTIL THEY [any who survive the war mentioned at the beginning of the verse] PAY TRIBUTE OUT OF HAND AND ARE UTTERLY SUBDUED - Koran 9:29

People of the Book are Jews and Christians - THAT IS READING IT IN CONTEXT.

PAY UP - OR SHOW ALL THAT YOU ARE NOTHING MORE THAN A LIAR. Oh let me guess it just says "fight" as opposed to kill.

Shukri - you are a double minded viper, full of "double speak". You are not a man of your word. Pay up to all and sundry on this site and honour your bet.

"Shukri - the man who approves of sex with nine year olds because Mohammed had sex with them"

Shukri said:"3rdtimelucky, the Lord, glorious and majestic be he, does not need any lowly humans to defend him. We do so only out of love and yearning for the Supreme Being."

Great - then go tell Hamas, Bin Laden and his buddies that in person. Just email it to them with your name, address and contact details Shukri. Tell them that you are a Muslim who believes in having sex with nine year olds, and total freedom of religion, freedom for women etc.

Go ahead - make my day!

"We do so only out of love and yearning for the Supreme Being."

So you kill in order to show love....ummmm...yess that makes sense.

Shukri - thanks for showing all and sundry what you really believe, that out of "love" for Allah you can not only have sex with 9 year olds, but also "kill" in order to defend him, "proactively" if need be - that was your own words above Shukri.

Shukri - thankyou for digging your own hole. I'm sure your Muslim buddies will be happy to stone you in it.

Please, Mrs. Weathermax. Can't you see the fallacy in judging an event that occured 1,400 years ago by the standards of modern Western thought?"

I don't speak for Granny Weatherwax, but I can certainly see the numerous fallacies of Islam which are neither mitigated nor inflated by the "standards of modern Western thought." Muslims often excuse the satyr Muhammad's licentious dalliances with hundreds of hapless females as normal for that particular time, including his obsession with a child. Muslims insist that it was common practice in Arabia for 55 year old men to marry six year old girls and consummate the union at the onset of puberty. Puberty or not, a girl of nine is a child in any era and any place. Isn't it odd that his "companions" didn't attempt to imitate his sexual perversions? Of course, muhammad and allah had a little agreement which allowed him special sexual privileges; after all, "we" (muhammad/allah) being so special, were entitled to extras.

What is a mere 1400 years to muslims? You still enforce, or want to enforce, a 1400 year old, barbaric legal system and emulate an illiterate, superstitious warlord. It seems like the Crusades happened just yesterday, and what a bloody shame they didn't annihilate every last muslim. What a blessing that would have been.

Muhammad's ludicrous protocol for tending to bodily functions is practiced by pious muslims to this day, as well as hundreds of other equally asinine, paganistic rituals designed to discourage independent thought and to depict this heathen savage as a pillar of divinely-inspired wisdom. It isn't "wise" to use rocks for toilet paper by any stretch of the imagination; it is in fact quite archaic, unnecessary, and stupid. So is Sharia.