The predictable charges of discrimination and claims that the accused -- Al-Timimi in this case -- is a saint. "Prosecution Called 'Overzealous': Guilty Verdict in Terror Case Angers Muslims Who Know Lecturer," from the Washington Post, with thanks to Jeffrey Imm:
Ali al-Timimi is a native Washingtonian, a prolific reader with about 4,000 books in his personal library who grew up among Irish Catholics. His parents worked at the Iraqi Embassy and sent him to a Jewish school known for strong academics.He had little Islamic education until he parents moved to Saudi Arabia when he was 15. Inspired by a teacher there, he began a lifelong study of Islam. He returned to Washington when he was 17 to attend college, receiving degrees from George Washington University and the University of Maryland, and late last year, a doctorate from George Mason University in computational biology with a focus on cancer and genes.
Yesterday, after he was found guilty in U.S. District Court in Alexandria on charges that he encouraged followers to join the Taliban and fight U.S. troops, members of the Muslim community said Timimi was a victim of "overzealous prosecution."
"Ali never opened a weapon or fired a shot," said Shaker El Sayed, a member of the executive committee of the Dar Al Hijra mosque in Falls Church, "and he is going to get life imprisonment for talking. What kind of country are we turning the United States into today?"
Sayed said that the jury must not have been able to distinguish between the lectures Ali delivered and charges against him. "The government alleged Ali incited people to buy arms and take them overseas to fire against people, but they never presented anything at the trial to show any facts relevant to any evidence. They only relied on Ali's lectures."
Timimi was a frequent lecturer at the Center for Islamic Information and Education, also known as Dar Al-Arqam, in Falls Church. He recorded more than 500 hours of his lectures and seminars, according to the biography of him posted on a Web site founded by his supporters....
Khwaja Hasan testified that in a meeting five days after the attacks, Timimi ordered the window blinds drawn and the house phone turned off in the event that it was being used by the government as a listening device. Hasan said Timimi urged the men at the meeting to join the Taliban and fight the United States....
Mahdi Bray, executive director of the Muslim American Society Freedom Foundation, said that Timimi's conviction "bodes ill" for the First Amendment.
"What he said was perhaps repugnant and inflammatory, but was it really his intent to have people go and take his words and translate that into going and killing other human beings, specifically Americans?" Bray asked.
If that was not his intent, what was? Mahdi Bray calls himself just a poor old country Muslim from Norfolk, Virginia, but he is a master at clouding issues and creating confusion. This is a prime example. The First Amendment has never protected sedition.
Ali never opened a weapon or fired a shot," said Shaker El Sayed, a member of the executive committee of the Dar Al Hijra mosque in Falls Church, "and he is going to get life imprisonment for talking.
What kind of country are we turning the United States into today?"
Yes... what kind of country are you MUSLIMS turning America into? It's your own fault... you invite your own demise. Enjoy the fruits of your jihad.
"What he said was perhaps repugnant and inflammatory, but was it really his intent to have people go and take his words and translate that into going and killing other human beings, specifically Americans?" Bray asked."
What is insulting is Mr. Bray doesn't believe a jury is intelligent enough to understand exactly his intent.
"Ali never opened a weapon or fired a shot," said Shaker El Sayed, a member of the executive committee of the Dar Al Hijra mosque in Falls Church, "and he is going to get life imprisonment for talking. What kind of country are we turning the United States into today?"
I guess you had better understand your country a little bit better, Mr. Shaker El Sayed.
Moose
Al-Timimi (an American citizen, I believe) was found guilty of TEN charges, including soliciting others to levy war against the United States. Isn't that part of the definition of treason?
So what if some Muslims are angry? Here we have it again: supposed moderates defending militants. This attitude of the supposed moderates is what fuels anger toward the Muslim community in general.
Also according the Post article referenced above, we read this: "Timimi was a founding member of Dar Al-Arqam" [the mosque in Falls Church, Virginia]. Hmmm...
More information about this Muslim "scholar" can be found @ http://www.altimimi.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=95&Itemid=79
However, be aware that this site supports Al-Timimi in his struggle against "spurious charges." No doubt, CAIR is helping in this endeavor.
sure, he was just using his free speech amendment to promote hate speech, right councilour???....to tell fellow Muslims to kill, without having to use the word kill???....sounds like guilty by association to me...you didnt commit the crime, but you helped the crime to take place....youre still GUILTY....and as usual the "poor, peace loving" Mulsims all cry "Oh Boo Hoo!!! We are being mistreated by the Americans!!!"......These dopey ass Mulsims are lucky we dont act like the Chinese or the Russians.....no trial, no jury, just staright to the ole gulag for some nice fun hardlabor for, oh say, 30 years....lets see how good Abdulah feels after he comes out after 30 years in the rock pits or down in the coal mines......This is a man who didnt tell his Mulsim folllowers to behave or even to spit on the sidewalks he told them to go to the Middle east and wage war against the infidels.....AMERICANS....to KILL AMERICANS......nuff said
Mahdi Bray. Robert, isn't this the circus clown whom you've openly embraced a debate with, yet he's never shown the courage to step up and participate?
How many Muslims have been in trouble in America because they have no self control, and act with such arrogance that they feel they can say or do anything they please?
Mahdi Bray, the poor country boy ought to shut his yap, and head back out to the barn, the horse dump needs picked up, and the hogs need slopped.
It's a shame that none of these tough talking Muslims have the stones to go into some of America's finest pubs or sporting events and talk their trash.
After Americans got finished with them, they'd be begging to be put in jail.
Let this be a lesson to all other jumping jackasses of jihad. To all pathetic pushers and promoters of prophetic pandemonium. To the freaky followers of false foreign fakery. To the drummers of demonic dogma. Speak anti-American jihad bs and you go to prison.
A prolific reader with 4,000 books in his library and yet he failed to read, or understand Article 3 ,Section 3 of the U.S. constitution.
There is much American anger at the increase in terrorist related convictions by those of the muslim faith....
All of Islam plays the propaganda game.
Islam does not police itself.
In no place is there more deception than in Islam.
Some "small" "minority" of extremists:
"Adherents of militant Islam account for some 15-20 percent of the Muslim world..."
www.meforum.org/article/168
The guy's name and organization escape me just now, but I recall a white supremasist group in Poway, California having all of it's assests taken some years ago.
A part of that organization's defense was that they never actually did tell anyone to go out and harm others. But the prosecution was abel to show that the hatefulness and forcefulness of their message and beliefs prompted some folks of similar bent to actually comit violence.
Given the above, if al-Timimi actually did tell people to pick up arms against America, what's the problem with his sentence.
Ooops.
able
commit
Roast the bastards.
http://www.terrorists-suck.org/fight/winds_of_jihad.html
This is classic propaganda, and it would be very hard indeed to believe that the people making these comments don't know that, quietly, inside.
""Ali never opened a weapon or fired a shot," said Shaker El Sayed, a member of the executive committee of the Dar Al Hijra mosque in Falls Church, "and he is going to get life imprisonment for talking. What kind of country are we turning the United States into today?""
Well, we're 'turning' into one where sedition might actually be punished. I have an idea: I'll go "talk" about how important it is to kill muslims, burn mosques, rape muslim women and destroy islamic life in North America - in short, to drive them all into the sea. Now, since I'd just be "talking", would that be ok?
Or maybe I could opine about how Mohammed was a murderous, piratous, morally depauperate inbred git, and that he never talked to any god - that his epileptic delusions were brought on by fantasies of power, or perhaps demonic possession.
But of course - this too would be ok for the above commentator, since I'd merely be "talking". After all, what kind of nation would throw me in jail for inciting violence? Just what sort of America would we be then?
"The government alleged Ali incited people to buy arms and take them overseas to fire against people, but they never presented anything at the trial to show any facts relevant to any evidence. They only relied on Ali's lectures."
Well, dumbass, see above point, you utter, utter, utter idiot. Incitement to violence. Why, indeed, would someone being charged with incitement to violence be convicted as someone who incited people to violence? Mystifying, indeed. (Then again, the speaker's comments suggest some 'familiarity' with this type of speech, since he finds it not-so-shocking, after all. One is forced to wonder.)
"Hasan said Timimi urged the men at the meeting to join the Taliban and fight the United States...."
'Nuff said. Moron.
Mahdi Bray, executive director of the Muslim American Society Freedom Foundation: "What he said was perhaps repugnant and inflammatory, but was it really his intent to have people go and take his words and translate that into going and killing other human beings, specifically Americans?"
Ummm...well let's see. He told them to go kill other human beings. But, maybe you're right. Maybe he was "just saying"...
"You know, we - er, I mean YOU, not me - should get guns and go kill those filthy kufir in the name of Allah. I'm just sayin'."
Mahdi Bray may well be the stupidest human being on the face of the earth. I suppose his freedom society must be about the freedom to be really, really stupid. I rather suspect these characters don't get what's going on because they operate on a very different level of intellect than we do.
"Do the logical limbo, Mahdi! Go Mahdi go go go go..."
I mean, I'm just sayin'.
Geoff
Perhaps my comments were misinterpreted.
The white supremacist group got what it deserved for its actions.
So did al-Timimi.
w00t, so we are now able to prosecute people based on what they say. Yet again it is demonstrated that Freedom of Speech and the right to stand up for one's principles is incompatible with the "Freedoms" that are repeatedly cited by proud Americans. No wonder the US Government shut down Al-Sadr's newspaper and bombed Al-Jazeera's offices and kills and imprisons their reporters whenever it gets the chance.
Shukri:
Why don't you do something about all the injustice in Saudi Arabia, since you feel so strongly about your rights as an American.
You're all mouth Shukri, and I really don't like the smell of your words or breath.
Go back to AllaLand and your Sharia paradise and leave us to our degenerate ways.
Sh#t, I can smell you from here. Go do your AllahSpeak somewhere else.
One down, a billion more remain.
Shukri:
The first Amendment of the United States of America gives you the right of free speech, but it does not give you the right to preach sedition, insurrection, or treason against ones own country;-+See Amendment 3 ---Section 3 --Treason". You can be arrested for insighting a riot or yelling fire in a theater as well, ----
Please let me know what part of that you don't understand.
Hey Shukri, your're going to the hellfire for believing in a false rock god. You'd better repent moron!
Repeat after me:
"The Constitution is not a suicide pact."
Sorry, Shukri, but sedition has never been considered protected speech under the First Amendment.
Besides, don't you think it's just a bit hypocritical of people who don't believe in "man-made laws" like our Constitution to turn around and claim to be protected by them?
Greetings everyone:
Not all Muslims and organisations are angered at Tamimi's conviction.
Press Corner
Free Muslims Applaud Conviction of Extremist from N. Virginia
April 28, 2005
Free Muslims Against Terrorism
An extremist Muslim leader from Northern Virginia was convicted of inciting his followers to train overseas to commit violence against the United States.
Timimi, 41, was convicted of inspiring a group of his Northern Virginia followers to attend terrorist training camps in Pakistan and prepare to battle American troops among other charges. The government's case against Timimi was based on a meeting he attended on Sept. 16, 2001. According to court papers, Timimi allegedly told his followers that "the time had come for them to go abroad and join the mujahideen (evil doers) in violent jihad in Afghanistan,".
Nor surprisingly, many of the Muslim “leaders” in Washington DC have come to the defense of Tamimi by arguing that his conviction was nothing more than a witch hunt and that he was merely a “Muslim scholar” exercising his rights to free speech.
The Free Muslims Against Terrorism do not share these beliefs. Ali Al-Tamimi is a well known extremist and he represents everything that has gone wrong with the Muslim world. His evil words have cast a dark cloud over the rest of the Muslim community and we are glad that justice was served.
The Free Muslims Against Terrorism have argued time and time again that the Muslim community must not tolerate people like Ali Al-Tamimi. We strongly urge American Muslim organizations to read the poison that Al-Tamimi has spread in the Muslim community and not assume that he was unjustly accused. He is an evil man and Muslims must not wait on federal authorities to remove evil doers like Tamimi from our community. Moderate Moslems must take the initiative and discredit people like Tamimi.
Kamal Nawash, President of the Free Muslims has responded to the conviction by stating: “we are pleased with the verdict against Ali Al-Tamimi. We are however, disappointed in the responses of some American Muslim organizations to his verdict. By categorizing every conviction against every Muslim as a witch hunt, American Muslim leaders are closing their eyes to the sad fact that we have a problem with extremism and that Muslims are the only ones who can defeat extremist ideologies from the Muslim community.”
Yours sincerely
Thomas
"What he said was perhaps repugnant and inflammatory, but was it really his intent to have people go and take his words and translate that into going and killing other human beings, specifically Americans?"
005.051 O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors {authorities]: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
Asking ALL Muslims:
Should Jews and Christians be offended? And if not - then why would it be offensive to say the same about Muslims?
The Muslims' god is violent...
009.030 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; in this they but imitate what ''' the unbelievers ''' of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!
009.123 O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you.
047.004 Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers in fight, smite at their necks. [Behead them!]
Why should Jews and Christians accept those violent UNHOLY teachings which incite mass Murder?
Who has the right to be more offended?
Muslims enraged at his conviction ????
Good ! Excellent !!!!
I'll open an Anger Management Clinic ", for many many more are going down , everyday in fact .....these cases are just coming due and new ones started ...this will go on for atleast a decade .......and that's a long time to be pissed off .......and that is a GOOD THING ...yea !
oh ....and shutting down Al Sadrs newspaper - GOOD MOVE !!!!!!
And no , we didn't intentionally bomb Al Jezzerra's offices or intentionally kill its journalist [ NOT THAT THEY DONT DESERVE IT ] , but if that was indeed our intention , there would be no Al Jezeera today .---and you know it too.
CHEEZ WHIZ ANGERS MUSLIMS!
PARTHENOGENESIS ANGERS MUSLIMS!
RUNIC ALPHABET ANGERS MUSLIMS!
BUTTERFLIES EMERGING FROM CATERPILLARS ANGERS MUSLIMS!"
[fill in the blank] ANGERS MUSLIMS!
What the hell doesn't anger Muslims!
Al-Timimi is at least guilty of sedition and encouraging others to carry arms against the United States is treason.
Ah, the hypocrisy of these "angered Muslims". The
last I heard Salman Rushdie still had that fathwah
on his head for expressing his opinions. Never heard of any Muslim expressing support for Rushdie's
right to express himself. "never opened(sic) a
weapon or fired a shot". If Al-Timimi had
written something similar, would they be protesting
in his favor ?
Thomas-
Thanks for the quote from Freemuslims. It helps to hear that there are Muslims who reject this madness.
Treegugger:
No worries. I think it is important to highlight these dissenting voices, while keeping in mind that the vast majority of Muslims and representative organisations in the West are angered by this verdict. This false sense of self-victimisation is a key characteristic of Western Muslims (and the Muslim world as well).
Yours sincerely
Thomas
Shurki, I thought you were all into prosecuting people for what they say! Didn't you whine on about how jihadwatch.org was a hate site and should be shut down? Weren't you in favour of the "incitement to religious hatred" law in the UK (which, incidentally, crashed and burned)?
Gee, you could at least respond to me even once.
Geoff