I told you so update from Boston. "Issues in Mideast hit close to home," from the Boston Globe, with thanks to Skeetstreet:
Many area residents with close ties to the Middle East are closely watching events taking place in their homelands, from Iraqis voting in a democratic election, to Lebanese citizens demanding the end of Syrian influence, to Palestinians electing a new leader, to Egypt promising a legitimate presidential election.President Bush last month called them ''landmark events in the history of freedom," but some local observers with a vested interest are reluctant to credit American policy for what is happening....
American support for Egypt's President Hosni Mubarak is typical of Western governments' ambivalence toward the Middle East, Shalaby said. ''They want democracy, but not our democracy. They want American democracy," he said. In Muslim countries, he said, ''Islam is the source of all law."
The news from the Middle East also is closely followed by Ehab Kashkash, a Palestinian software engineer living in Quincy. Kashkash was born in Egypt and has lived in Jordan and Libya.
And this guy is a "Palestinian"... why?
This is a quiz:
What group in the world requires execution if you
Criticize the group, Postulate from the group, Advocate group change or leave the group?
A. Girl Scouts
B. Mennonites
C. Republicans
D. IBM
E. Marines
F. US Postal Service
G. Communism
H. Rainbow Coalition
I. Other
Charles:
Much has been written about how the UN relief agency went about its determinations about who qualified as an "Arab refugee" in the early 1950s: as little as two years' residency in the land west of the Jordan River, or having moved back to one's village of origin was enough to qualify for aid. This is completely atypical of definitions of refugee status anywhere else in the world.
Dont remember the names but some leading cleric said that democracy is inconsistant with Islam (Thats correct). The permanent rep to the UN from Iran said that "human rights was a judaeo/christian concept and had no place in Islam" Thats also correct. So, no democracy, no human rights, is what you get if sharia law became the law of the land. You want to get beat up by thugs because you picnic in the park? Or play music or any number of things that might bring you into conflict with sharia. Death and bodilly punishment is what these shariaholics have in mind for offenders, worse even for dhimmis. To make matters worse almost any mullah can act as sheriff and any fired up muslim can act as deputy. Thats why it's a good idea to have secular governments where Islam/religion operates as a sub group but has no direct participation...everytime a religion gets political power, all hell breaks loose...strange but true...
Islamic democracy is a pure oxymoron. Islam is good only for mindless repression and backwardness; at best its good for tribal anarchy. Islam is the negation of the Enlightenment and any postive values we have. ISLAM SUX!
Democracy as defined by "representative government" is perfectly acceptable in Islam. Western democracy, with it's toleration of adultery, fornication, the use of usury and other social diseases is not compatible.
However it is "Democracy" and not "Western Democracy" that we referring to. So an Islamic Democracy where the officials are elected and the law is the law of justice, morals and uprightness which ensures a safe and secure society obedient to God (aka Islamic Sacred Law) should not trouble anyone. "'Tis a consummation devoutly to be wished" as Sheikh Spear said.
NOTE: In a Shari'ah run society, Christians and Jews have their own civil laws and governing structures as was the case in Muslim Spain.
Can someone find the quote where i think it was a saudi scholar said that human rights, capitalism, and democracy were a jewish invention.
Posted by: Shukri at April 18, 2005 02:52 PM
Another man beheaded in public under mulsum law in Saudia it looks like he was involed with drugs??
All the druggies in the USA and in Europe will have???
Looks like the Libs better get on bord this train going to the fight or they will be the frist to loose their heads???
Hear that the Globe is moving to DC could this be because they are worried for their lifes because of the pimping they have done for the left and now boston is over run by mulsums???
and of course there are no military there because the left hate the Military and Cops??
and Guns??
No a gun in hand is better than 2 cops on the Phone!!!
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM OPEN THE WORLDS EYES TO THEIR THREAT LET NOT THE WORLD BE DECEIVED BY THEM AMEN
Pay close attention to what's happening in Lebanon. It'll end up being one of the few true democracies in the Middle-East. it's no surprise that almost 50% of the population is Christian.
I hope the DHS has Shukri under surveillance. He sounds just like Mohammed Atta before he went kamikaze.
In theory that may be so. But the truth is the Middle East's despots never paid much more attention to the Qur'an than did most 'infidels.' Look at al-Qaeda's plans to force the Saudi Royal family (whom al-Qaeda Muslims consider infidels)out of power...
Shukri, you know Robert Spencer recently released his book on the subject of how dhimmis were treated under islam. here is the Frontpage article about it, read about how non-muslims were treated. How would you like to be under malevolent rule?
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=17637
And this is EXACTLY why CAIR-Canada and Sheema Khan (AKA Con-job Khan) are demanding Shariah law
for Female Muslims in Ontario,and then in all of Canada.
Ironically,Mr.Tarek Fatah from a Muslim Org. in Canada has made his views known that he's against ghettoizing Muslim women with the oppressive unjust Quranic laws of Shariah,this is the same man, while on a TVO debate on Sharia,who avered the Islamic fact that Democracies can't exist in a majority Muslim Country because the Quran makes it clear that the duty is to estabilish an Islamic State went Muslims become the main power
in non-Muslim Nations.
A Khalifah ( Islamic Communistic based Government) is the main goal of all Muslims next to the daily prayers,Jihad is a religious struggle and now we see that violence can be a form of attaining that Kalifah within Western Democracies.
After seeing the latest indictment against ANOTHER CAIR founder for Terrorism ties,Hooper is about to see the dregs of Islam in America once the swamp is finally drained,and he should visit the www.jaynadavis.com site to read about the Al-Qaeda link to McVeigh via the WTC truck bombing in the underground garage in the first attack.
The weasels at CAIR are now attatching themselves to Christianity as a cheap ruse to
fool the masses with this veneer of Peace and Love,thankfully the JW and DW guest have caught on to this charade and want to see proof from the Quran and not some mindless diatribe by one-eyed Dr.Hook on the streets of London near the Finsbury Mosque.
As my I.D. declares.
Allah sucks
Democracy is a special 'enemy' of Islam.
Democratically passed laws enable otherwise helpless human beings to defend themselves from 'Islamic' theothugs from preying on them and offering them up as protein (served up immolated or sliced and diced as with a machete or a la mode) to al-lah aka Baal aka Marduk...
how can you have democracy in societies where disagreements end up in beheadings and suicide bombings.
turkey is the only example i can think of and the only reason is the military are intensely secular, if there was even a hint of a islam theocratic takeover the military would take them all out back and shoot them.
"Democracy" in Muslim-dominated lands, in the primitive sense of head-counting,without guarantees of rights for minorities and individual rights, inclding the right of freedom of conscience (apostasy) should be of little interest to Infidels. It does not guarantee any lessening of Muslim fervor. It does not guarantee that Muslims themselves will have to confront what it is that explains the political, economic, social, and intellectual failures -- which should be made as radiantly obvious as possible, so that Muslims themselves, and any Infidels tempted by Da'wa, will come to udnerstand where the problem lies. And it lies with Islam as a system of intellecutal constaint and Total Regulation.
Nothing should be done to artificially shore up the Muslim countries. They are overpopulated. That is their problem. That problem should not be exported to the West, and Islam itself should be regarded as a mental condition that is dangerous to all non-Muslims -- which, if fully embraced, and acted upon, it is. No Infidel aid to Muslim countries. No further toleration for Muslim infiltration of Western universities and schools, where the teaching of Islam has become the province of apologists for Islam, both Muslim and non-Muslim.
These are simple, understandable, and achievable goals. They require only that a sufficient number of non-Muslims familiarize themselves with Islam. They should read, and re-read, Qur'an, Hadith, and Sira. They should look at various Muslim websites -- even a few hours, here and there, will do at www.islamonline.org or www.islamqa.org. They should read the relevant works on the history of Jihad-conquest and on the treatment of various kinds of non-Muslims -- Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians, Hindus, Buddhists -- under Muslim rule. They should learn the history of slavery in Muslim lands, and about the African slave trade, the slavers in Eastern Europe, and those in Western Europe. Jan Hogedoorn's article "The Hideous Trade" (on black Africans seized and castrated for the Islamic markets), the studies of J. P. Willis, Crone's "Slaves on Horseback," and even Giles Milton's "White Gold" about Thomas Pellow, the Cornishman seized and brought back to Morocco, would all contribute. The more on learns about Islam, if one is not already brainwashed (or if incompletely brainwashed, convinced that Islam is not what non-Muslims and ex-Muslims who have come to their senses so clearly recognize it as being, then loyal out of filial piety), the less there is to admire, and the more to horrify.
And without that sense of horror, one is unlikely to be moved to prevent the spread of Islam by means other than terrorism.
"Democracy" if it means "Islamic" democracy is a silly and forlorn hope. It will not make Infidels safer, as some in the Amdinistration have convinced themselves it will. The examples of history all go the other way. And the best example is that of the Islamic Republic of Iran, which began with popular support, and where 25 years of having to run a country has not, in the slightest, diminished the crazed malevolence of its rulers.
Heard mulsums were killing mulsums in Iran someting like 30 dead becausE the Iranis were going to kick out the Arab mulsums could this be ubl[YELLOW COWARD WHO RUNS AWAY] family??
oH mY!!!
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength, Wisdom, Sight, and Courage to stay the course to Destroy ALL islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Amen
Hugh,
I wonder if you have ever read Dean King's, "Skeletons on the Zahara: A True Story of Survival" or David Keys', "Catastrophe: An Investigation into the Origins of Modern Civilization"?
Hi Hugh,
I've done the whole "familiarizing myself with Islam" thing, but've come to some very different conclusions than you. So... you think maybe there's something other than the religion itself that's causing the difference in opinion?
Cheers
Shukri, it is really too much.
A system which doesn't work, your islam, that is why islamic societies are failures, and silly people like you keep saying ' oh, they weren't islamic enough '. You have had 1300 years and still no regime islamic enough to succeed !
And you wanna keep trying, eh Shukri, just keep sacrificing more generations, for ever...?
islam is over babe, as you know it.
Probable crumble because people like you will sound more and more ridiculous to other moslems.
1300 years, you've given it a good try Shukri; it doesn't work. Try another system, try one that works, like the one in the country that you choose to live in...duh.
Lebanon is interesting; my fingers are crossed.
Very important to see a free and democratic Lebanon.
"Western democracy, with it's toleration of adultery, fornication, the use of usury and other social diseases is not compatible."
Western society attempts, more so than sharia, frankly, to make the punishment fit the crime. For example, the murder of adulterers is not considered right or just, since frankly all can see that one transgression does not merit death. (Shurki, I believe, believes that it does, possibly the mark of deep sexual frustrations and trust issues. I recommend therapy.) Since issues of sexuality are the business of those involved in them and not mindless interlopers (i.e. shariists), this is eminently more equitable. Shurki, please provide proofs of how your neighbours' sexual behaviour is any of your business, within the confines of behaviours permissable in 'Western' systems.
"an Islamic Democracy where the officials are elected and the law is the law of justice, morals and uprightness which ensures a safe and secure society obedient to God (aka Islamic Sacred Law) should not trouble anyone."
Regrets, but they certainly do. People should have the right to choose whatever governmental system they like (with some minor exceptions, such as Stalinism, Naziism and sharia, perhaps) and whatever laws are appropriate. Sharia is not the only way, as Shurki believes, for a society to be fair and just - and in fact is manifestly unfair and unjust in various circumstances (i.e. women, minorities). When a requirement for a "safe and secure society" is the stoning of adulterers, the amputation of the limbs of thieves, and the murder of anyone insulting this 'prophet', the system has utterly, utterly failed.
"NOTE: In a Shari'ah run society, Christians and Jews have their own civil laws and governing structures as was the case in Muslim Spain."
No, they have their own civil laws and governing structures ONLY where they do not conflict with sharia. Thus, no churches higher than mosques, no permission to repair churches, distinguishing clothing (in the old days of the 'caliphates' that people like Shurki want to bring back), no permission for non-Muslim men to marry muslim women, and so forth. I'm sure Shurki can blissfully and ignorantly sweep all these under the rug, or at least try.
Wildhorses: the thing other than the religion itself causing difference in your and Hugh's interpretation is critical analysis. Don't ask your neighbour what a great person he is. Ask your neighbour's neighbour.
Geoff
Interestingly, I note again that Mubarak thinks that there indeed ARE "muslim" countries; Shurki has adopted the standard in the past that "none of these countries are truly muslim" to explain the lack of human rights (especially for minorities) and general misogyny.
Regrettably, it seems that these nations do indeed consider themselves muslim.
Perhaps Shurki, you ought to go and tell them that they're not muslim, and why. I'm sure the result would be interesting, although I can't really recommend to you since it doesn't seem a very healthy idea.
Geoff
Pay close attention to what's happening in Lebanon. It'll end up being one of the few true democracies in the Middle-East. it's no surprise that almost 50% of the population is Christian.
Posted by: Christian Phoenician
Lebanon WAS (past tense) 50% Christian. After the Israeli's pulled out the PLO (Muslims) went on a killing spree.
Why is it, some of the nicest people I went to uni with were Christian Lebanese who fled the PLO? Yet down in Sydney we have plenty of pack rapes, riots, football riots, murders etc from the Lebanese who worship the moon god - Al-ila (aka Allah)? Constantly we see Kaser Triad on TV critiqing the war on terror - yet he is always strangly silent on critiquing people who are described by family as "good Muslims - the Western immorality is to blame"