Is this really the time for an amnesty for illegal aliens?

Our porous borders are more than troubling and our government appears to be more interested in maintaining the goals and principles of NAFTA than in the protection of the United States. It seems that the efforts of civilian volunteers are having a positive effect on security. It is a disgrace that civilians think they have to take on this role.

Note the links at the bottom of the page referenced.

A senior Republican, co-sponsoring with a Senior Democrat... Sensebrenner must be having fits.

btw, the greenhouses and vineyards around here in southern Ontario bring in Mexican workers by the busload from the States, for summer work. I'd be interested to see how either this Or Sensebrenner's bill would affect that. The US is not the only country that happily brings in immigrants, legal or illegal, to work the farms.

OT~ Free Muslims Against Terror is holding a march in Washington:

http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=17760

Two things will interest me:

If the MSM (outside of FOX) bothers to cover it.
How the MSM spins it.

The U.S. and Mexico are to be integrated! At wonder at whose expense. The Mexican foreign secretary believes that Americans should be prosecuted for attempting to protect themselves against the passive-aggressive behavior of the Mexican government that would be only too happy to shepherd unfriendlies to the border.

No, this is not the time for amnesty being granted to lawbreaking fence jumpers. Not now, and not at anytime should those who have no respect for our laws be rewarded with legalization and benefits that we fund.

Friends, our government appears to be selling all of us right down the river. It appears that the Muslims and the Mexicans are more important to our elected officials than we are.

Perhaps I'm incorrect, but all evidence points toward their desire to multiculturalize this nation at our expense. They have ignored the Constitution, and they've ignored our wishes. The polls show that the overwhelming majority of Americans want something done about the Mexican border, and they want something done about the Islamic fascists that have so arrogantly stepped on so many of our feet.

If things don't change, down the river we will go.

One thing we could think about is Mexico becoming a part of the United States. They can live under our laws, stay down there, and reap the benefits of being American. And in turn, they get to keep their water, but we get their oil.

Deal?

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!

I'd type it 10 million times, one for every illegal invader (economic or otherwise) if I thought it would help.

Reagan and the compliant lackeys of argri-business/ union destruction/ skilled labor wage lowering/ landscaping/ Wal-Mart etc. gave an "amnesty" in the 1980's and all it did was encourage these new invaders to get in and wait for a second "amnesty".

If they want to give temporary laborers a form of secure visa to enter -and then leave- for specific work, then do it that way, but NO amnesty for lawbreakers.

And deport those here illegally, and let them return under a work-visa program
whereby they can be fingerprinted, vetted for criminal behavior, and tracked and taxed, and given NO access to any social services at all - not education, not medical care -except for enough emergency room treatment to allow them to be safely and quickly repatriated back to a hospital in their own country, and not bi-lingual aid for getting driver's licences, voter registration, etc. (which should be illegitimate for an illegal to access anyway).

And NO immediate citizenship for the children of illegals. PERIOD. That is the trojan womb they now use to get in and start the lifelong moochfest.

We are allowing the undermining of the Constitution and erosion of the legal fabric of the nation by giving indifferent-to-America major businesses (and the many minor sympathizes in local plant nurseries, smaller farms, neighborhood landscapers, laundries, nanny services, sweatshops, etc.) their way in the downward rush for cheap, tractable, illegal labor.

The borders are secure as an incontinent senator's boxer shorts.

Stop the invasion.
Uphold the rule of law.
Defend the Constitution.

NO TO AMNESTY! NO TO THIEVES! NO TO INVADERS!

But I have as much hope for the present president or Congress on this issue as I have belief in the truth of the phrase 'religion of peace'.

Is this really the time for an amnesty for illegal aliens?

Of course it is. To be amnestied, they have to come out of hiding, and get registered, fingerprinted, and all the rest. The crazies among them might then be all the more easily tracked and nabbed should they dare get out of line. If they stay in hiding and get caught (and even the woefully understaffed, underfunded, and overworked INS sometimes nabs and deports when no amnesty is in effect), such unwillingness to make use of the amnesty provides all the more circumstantial evidence for the prosecutor's case.

I also like your suggestion, DC. Manifest Destiny--Arctic Ocean to tropical Isthmus. However, we can leave out the Great White North. They made their point in 1812-15, and we ought to respect it.

The gov is clearly working in opposition to the will of the people (most anyway) at our borders. It is the govs duty to protect our borders but it steadfastly refuses to do so. If the gov, who supposedly works for the people, refuses to do the work of the people, then it is proper for the people to do it themselves, and work for the removal of the constipated gov at the same time. The minute man movement is proper under these conditions and it should grow larger and last longer. I hate to hear the mantra "but they take work Americans wont do". Is that a call for a sub-class of workers? Dhimmitude for Mexican illegals/legals, America style? In times of high unemployment or financial need, lots of Americans would take these jobs. However, they are locked up by illegals and employers who would rather employ them because Americans demand rights, and it's harder to push them around...kudo's for the minute men....

The desire of those in our government who wish to grant legaliziation/amnesty to the illegal aliens already in our country raises many, many troubling questions--questions raised and discussed at great length at many other sites.

Many of their proposals are based on:

(a)ignorance or deceit
(b)special interest pressure from la raza, maldef, the ACLU, various industry representatives, and other ignorant/deceitful special interest groups
(c)one of their greatest fears--which is losing votes.

Even more troubling is the desire of many of those folks to keep offering the same rewards to illegal aliens who have not yet even arrived. For far too long now they've played a game of pretending to oppose illegal immigration (wink, wink), but rewarding the illegal aliens who are able to get here.

The Minutemen Project, which is in reality simply a Neighborhood Watch program on a grand scale, is making at least some elected officials take note.

The real goal, I believe, should be to force our elected officials to ask themselves whose votes they need the most--votes from those who support illegal immigration, or those who oppose it.

Various industries don't vote. Maldef and La Raza don't vote. Individuals vote.

Elected officials aren't all bad actors, but they are driven by the vote. It does us no good for them to discover how we voted after an election. They need to know how we intend to vote before the election.

Contact them.

Ramaz you just lost all credibility here on this forum. Your uneducated racist views have made you null and void.

What you fail to notice is that Americans have respect for Hispanics that obey the laws and are assimilated and respectful to other Americans. They make a valuable contribution. The issue is illegal immigration from Hispanics that know not truthful American history (like you Ramaz) or respect and understand our laws.

The left objects to lowering immigration numbers because that’s where they get a lot of votes from. This isn’t about discrimination from “Whites” it’s about trying to win back the White House.

Here’s some real facts:

Hispanics are the fastest growing segment of the US Pop. They are equal in numbers to Blacks which number 35 million. So Hispanics and Black are 12% each of the Pop.

Look how Bill (everything is about me me me) Clinton used the Mexican’s to get re elected. He used the INS to rush to naturalize over 3 million immigrants to swing the vote and as a result of not checking who they were allowed 80,000 with criminal records many with serious violent crimes slip by. To be used as pawns by the likes of Billy Clinton should make any minority upset. BTW after they have been here a couple of generations and get on their feet they almost always vote Republican.

Immigration is not about racism and bigotry it’s about the future of our country.

If unrestricted immigration is allowed to stand the US is in danger of balkanization. The Nation’s history will be forgotten and her descendants will be robbed of their rightful inheritance.

Classical left. When the truth backed up by facts doesn’t advance the left’s agenda they ignore it. Check out this latest example. Instead of an intelligent thoughtful response to my post that debunked Ramaz’s completely anti American, paranoid, delusional and hate filled rant, his reply is typical of how the left always replies. Race baiting and name calling.

Ramaz, it’s time someone who is not PC to tell you the truth. You do not possess the intellectual capacity or the educational background to compete with the caliber and knowledge of the other posters at JW and DW. In short you contribute nothing but static. Please do the rest of us a favor by refraining from any future postings.

Thank you

The people on left put their own selfish personal interests and minority interests above that of what’s best for our country. This paves the way for a takeover by any number of opportunistic organizations, which currently includes the Muslims who believe Islamic law should be the law of the land.

One lie of the left is that they want to “reach out” to the right and combine forces to block this threat. What the left does best is exactly what the Muslims do and that is to “peacefully co-exist”. What this means of course is, that when the time is right (when a weakness is noticed) they will re attack and take as much as we let them.

Another tactic of the left is to always keep good decent people on the right on the defensive. Attack after attack, ignore facts lie and then repeat. It’s relentless, unending and has been going on big time since the 1960’s.

I predict that soon that we will witness a cultural shift back to the basics of what the country was founded on. The right will cease to continually point out the truth and the facts to a much smaller group of leftist radicals and elitists who ignore it and relentlessly push a Marxist anti-American agenda.

In the 60’s, the radicals howled at the middle class establishment that in the next generation “we will own your children”. And, by using the entertainment media, the educational system, books, music, and magazines and everything else in popular culture that appeals to kids, guess what, they where right and they do.

Problem is, the "left" is not the only problem.

Bush was supposed to be a "conservative".
Hahahaha! The jokes on me- at least it was til I discovered PRAGMATISM.

http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/index.htm

http://members.mountain.net/theanalyticpapers/

So let me get this straight...
If the Aryan Nation says something is good, that means in reality it is bad?? And vice-versa.

Just because.

Oh the simplistics of it. Life is so easy.

Well, thats your opinion.
Sorry but I think thats what is BS.

"Black Asians" etc,etc ???

You have a serious problem.

The fact is that the open-borders Pragmatic Utopians are the ones who are the real "supremicists".

'Are you talking about the history of the EXTINCT Native Americans' ~ramaz

Sorry ramaz, I spent 9 years working side by side with Indians, they sure looked alive to me. So do the dozens of First Nation tribes in Northern Ontario.

Slam the door shut and toss out all illegals by their scruffs: use baby anchors as anchors and tie them to their mothers and toss them into the drink. It isn't a black versus white thing: Mexicans are mainly Indian and Spaniard. It's a culture thing: I judge a culture by the country it keeps and Mexico sucks so I don't want to see us turning into another Mexico, or a Haiti, Guatemala or Egypt based on some neurotic, white middle class guilt trip.

Geoff, I think you over-reacted to Ramaz' first post. He originally expressed a legitimate concern that the illegal immigration issue cna be a wedge for racist action, and possibly a reaction against those immigrants who played by and still are playing by the rules--especially if non-"white". Speaking as a former consular officer and someone who has ties to non-"white" immigrant communities, the numbers of the law-abiding (and assimilating) are also large. While I'm all for ENFORCEMENT of laws concerning illegal immigration, I'm aware as well that some whose only crime is overstaying may be assimilable. What, for instance, do you do with some basically decent and law-abiding person who visits, falls in love with an American, marries, and starts a family with the American spouse--without bothering to tell INS? That's one of the things for which people get pulled in for, too (and for which they should simply be put through the immigration procedures, as far as I'm concerned).

Also, I can't help but notice that before it discovered anti-immigration as a cause, the Republican Party was starting to make significant inroads into Far Eastern, South Asian, and some Hispanic immigrant communities--challenging the Democrat's hegemony in immigrant communisites. Conservative Republican Theo-con though I be, I see this as one instance of the Republican Party being "the Stupid Party". After all, nobody appreciates American liberty more than someone who's seen Communist totalitarianism up close and personal; a lot of immigrants are entrepreneurial in their economic orientation; and many are appalled at the sexual revolution (as are plenty of older stock Americans).

Ramaz--as far as I'm concerned, the Aryan (without a drop of subcontinental blood) Nations aren't "Christian" Hamas: they're out-and-out heretical; since the Bible makes not provision for belief in "mud people" or something intermediate between human and animal. Maybe they're something like the Nation of Islam in the days of Elijah Muhammad?

Oops. It was Cross who over-reacted to Ramaz. SOrry, Geoff.

Kepha,

I enjoyed your post, but do have a question.

You referred to the Republican party's discovery of anti-immigration as a cause.

My understanding is that, today, with some members of various industries constantly clamboring for cheap labor, the party line seems to favor high legal immigration, with a progressively softening stance on illegal immigration.

Did you mean to address their discovery of illegal immigration of a decade ago?

Just curious.

PRCS: The Republican Party got anti-immigrant in time to get the elder Bush defeated.

As for the younger Bush's pro-iommigration stance and proposed amnesty, let's not forget his friendship wtih Vicente Fox. The two men both made their political careers on the US-Mexican border (Vicente Fox is from Chihuahua, I believe), and there are plenty of people down there, Hispanic or otherwise (note El Presidente's name!) who look on the border the way a lot of people in the Buffalo-Niagara region or on the 49th parallel look on the US-Canadian border: a petty nuisance.

Also, in the bad old days of national origins immigration quotas, the USA did not have limits on Western Hemisphere immigration. It was how the POwells of Jamaica ended up in New York. However, much of Latin America at that time was also pretty empty. so the population was not as likely to move north.

No worries, Kepha; I saw through your cunning ruse, thou wicked deciever. For is it not written:

Q 1: 23 O Mohammed! For there will be those that make greatness for Allah by their deeds and those that make greatness for Allah by their words. Those that conflict with thy words will have a great hellfire prepared for them, unless they get the poster's name wrong, in which case it's all good. Let them not draw you from the Sacred Places but let all worship be for Allah, of Whom No Evidence Exists. For Allah is Hearer, Hacker.

Is it written there? No idea.

=)

Geoff

Whoop Whoop IMMIGRATION ALERT Whoop Whoop

BobC's favorite Immigrant speaks!

Schwarzenegger talks tough on illegal immigration
SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said the nation's policy on preventing illegal immigration is too lax, telling a group of newspaper publishers the United States needs to "close the borders."
Schwarzenegger said, "This is a very important debate. I think it's necessary that we solve the problems rather than try to run the other way."
AP photo

"Close the borders in California and all across Mexico and in the United States," Schwarzenegger said Tuesday at the annual meeting of the Newspaper Association of America. "Because I think it is just unfair to have all those people coming across, have the borders open the way it is, and have this kind of lax situation."

The Republican governor also suggested exploring several policy proposals aimed at addressing the immigration crisis, including President Bush's proposed guest worker program and legislation sponsored by Sens. John McCain, R-Ariz., and Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., to pave the way for undocumented workers already living in the United States to attain legal status.

"This is a very important debate. I think it's necessary that we solve the problems rather than try to run the other way. It's a hot issue," Schwarzenegger said.

Schwarzenegger's remarks were later clarified by his spokeswoman, Margita Thompson, who said the governor supports greater security along the nation's borders but was not calling for the borders to be completely closed.

"The governor has talked before about the need to ensure that immigrants are put on a path toward fully participating in California's economy," Thompson said. "But he feels they need to enter the country the right way, and must not undermine important security issues. He feels that the border needs to be secure."

It's not the first time Schwarzenegger, who emigrated to the United States from Austria as a young man, has become entangled in the emotional debate surrounding illegal immigration. During the recall election, Schwarzenegger was repeatedly asked to explain why he had voted for Proposition 187, a 1994 ballot measure to deny many basic services to illegal immigrants. And shortly after entering office, he derailed a law passed and signed by former Democratic Gov. Gray Davis that would have allowed illegal immigrants to apply for drivers licenses.

In February, Schwarzenegger endorsed Congressional legislation authorizing the construction of a fence along California's border with Mexico. The proposal has sparked opposition from the state's Coastal Commission, as well as many environmentalists and Democrats.

In a statement, Assembly Speaker Fabian Nunez, D-Los Angeles, said Schwarzenegger's comments reflected badly on the state's "productive" relationship with Mexico.

"The Governor should ratchet down his rhetoric and retreat from this narrow-minded approach to immigration policy," Nunez said. "Closing our borders to commerce and culture is an idea that comes from political extremists, not rational policy-makers."

http://usatoday.printthis.clickability.com/pt/cpt?action=cpt&title=USATODAY.com+-+Schwarzenegger+talks+tough+on+illegal+immigration&expire=&urlID=13962158&fb=Y&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usatoday.com%2Fnews%2Fnation%2F2005-04-20-schwarzenegger-immigration_x.htm%3Fcsp%3D34&partnerID=1660