Oh, great. Two days as Pope and Benedict XVI has already gone and irked the Turk. From IslamOnline, with thanks to Skeetstreet:
VATICAN CITY - Although Pope Benedict XVI said Wednesday, April 20, that he wanted dialogue with other faiths and cultures, some voiced their concern about the new pope's political opinions and his stand on Islam.The new pope - Germany's Joseph Ratzinger - has a couple of political views that were set to draw controversy and were immediately highlighted by world media, following his election late Tuesday.
The most recent of these causes has been Turkey's attempts to become a member of the European Union. He says allowing the predominantly Muslim nation into Europe's club would be "an enormous mistake."
Europe is a "cultural continent, not a geographic one," he said in 2004, and Turkey has "always represented another continent... in permanent contrast with Europe," according to Agence France-Presse (AFP) Wednesday....
As a cardinal, the new pope inserted himself last year into the political debate over allowing Turkey into the European Union, the [New York Times] said, quoting him as saying that "adding Turkey would dilute the culture of what he considers a Christian continent".
He also said that Turkey, a predominantly Muslim nation of 70 million people, should align itself instead with other Muslim nations.
The paper added that it would be extremely disturbing if the pope became an unnecessary wedge in the process of reconciling the Islamic world with the non-Islamic West.
"It would also be out of keeping with the heritage of John Paul II - who, for all his doctrinal conservatism, was a man known for his outreach to people of other faiths."
The same concern was present in Turkish newspapers, which expressed concern that the new Pope's past opposition to Ankara joining the European Union on the grounds that it is a Muslim nation could raise fresh obstacles to its membership.
Turkish papers also quoted Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan as saying Wednesday he hoped the new pope would soften his stiff opposition to the Muslim nation's bid to join the European Union.
"He has voiced such views as his personal opinion in the past, but his rhetoric may change from now on," Erdogan said....
"I hope the new Pope will follow in the footsteps of his predecessor and try to bring peace in the world," said Hafiz Hussain Ahmed, a Pakistani Islamic scholar and politician...
But, a report on FrontPageMagazine.com Wednesday wrote that while "the late Pope kissed the (Noble) Qur'an and pursued a consistent line of conciliation toward the Islamic world. the new Pope Benedict XVI, while no less charitable, has been a bit more forthcoming about the reality of how Islam challenges the Catholic Church, Christianity, and even the post-Christian West."
It was nice of them to make reference to my FrontPage piece. I hope I was correct in my assessment.
Pope Panzer has the racist Islam a bit jumpy. The entire world has given the Islamic cult the benefit of the doubt, and given them the chance to be decent. They blew that opportunity.
So when Christianity begins to thrive again in Europe, the Muslim Wahhabis have themselves and their lack of self control to blame. Muslims take themselves far too seriously. The rest of the world has taken them too seriously as well.
What, other than bloodletting have they accomplished?
A 62% illiteracy rate.
Barbaric 7th century beliefs.
Poverty.
Brutal oppressive regimes.
Yep, right down Muhammad's alley.
Hail Pope Panzer, may he live long, and crush those who breed hatred and bigotry.
As long as he stays out of the mosques and doesn't kiss that dirty book he'll be right...
http://www.terrorists-suck.org/fight/winds_of_jihad.html
Oh, a 'Christian Europe'! How terrible! Sounds almost as bad as a 'muslim Turkey'...
Give back the Hagia Sophia and get out of Cyprus. Then we start talking. But only talking...
And pay up for the Armenians, but then again: Turkey is alraedy bankrupt and thee only hope for them is to take the EU as booty, so they not going to settle for less...
Our lefties will hand it to 'em on a silver platter...
I'm rather torn on this Pope - I dislike his views on contraception, abortion, women and gays but think we need a robust conservative Pope to stand up to Islam.
Compared with the Mad Mullahs, of course, the Pope's views on social issues are very liberal.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/005/511daxsb.asp
Chirac-he's gone out of his way to promote Turkish entry, even suggesting that one day Islam will be as much a part of Europe's roots as Christianity once was. And although he has promised a separate referendum for the question of Turkey when it comes up in 10 to 15 years (at which time France's Muslim population will be 30 percent to 40 percent), he has also subtly played down the fact that one key area over which the constitution would have supranational jurisdiction is immigration policy.
The pope's views on abortion, contraception and gays are totally coherent with the need to value life and repopulate europe. The catholic church has decided that the needs of society outweigh the needs of the individual who wishes to shag without consequences.
No doubt the pope would be popular on the pages of the Guardian or in upper echelons of the act-up heirarchy if he decided gay sex was OK, but the bottom line is that every christian born takes us one step further from the not yet inevitable death of Europe.
There are other christian groups who are less dogamtic on these points. No one is stopping those who don't agree with the pope to join them.
Hmmm,
Here we go again, attacking the core of intellect of western civilization. Imagine, a Pope who resides on reason, on values and on substance that is in fact the core ideals of modern Western European and American values, and in so being helped create democracy, as we know it today!
No wonder Islam, who has a history of aggression, suffocation of religious freedom, personal freedom, intellectual freedom and in fact a goal of global domination with Nazi like precision, chooses to lash out against the very Pope who survived Nazism. The Pope knows the clear Nazi like deception at the very core of Islam’s religious program to its followers. Why? Because he practices what he preaches, and knows the danger of Islam, because as a Christian he is allowed under his doctrine of faith to reason and find knowledge of other faiths as part of his own intellect, and that is what Islamic leaders fear the most..................REASON!
As a famous author wrote C. S. Lewis on reality;
We should never ask of anything "is it real?," for everything is real. The proper question is "A real what?," e.g., a real snake, or a real delirium tremens?
Dear Muslims, I take great pleasure in introducing all of you to the new Pope of the Catholic Church.
How in the hell could anyone disagree with a man like this? He's is certainly an inspiration to me, and to my fellow alcohol consumers around the world. Muslims, this is your last chance to clean up your act. Ye be warned.
Papa Ratzinger.jpeg
Dear Muslims, I take great pleasure in introducing all of you to the new Pope of the Catholic Church.
How in the hell could anyone disagree with a man like this? He's certainly an inspiration to me, and to my fellow alcohol consumers around the world. Muslims, this is your last chance to clean up your act. Ye be warned.
Papa Ratzinger.jpeg
DC Watson:
"Pope Panzer". That's my LOL of the day - I love it. I hope you don't mind if I borrow that phrase to beat some LLL's over the head with it.
The Muslims were expected a dhimmi but they got a rottweiller instead. His intentions are good but let's wait and see if he can start a movement in Western Europe that agrees with him that Europe is essentially a Christian/post-Christian continent. There is no room for Islam. Euros, the ball is in your court now, will you defend your culture from the religious nihilists?
I will not shirk to do this work, for those who post and those who lurk: the Turks are irked. The Turks are irked. What kind of jerk would irk the Turks? One who smirks, "No Muslim perks."
Very funny, Robert. Sounds like DR. Seuss.
Long live BenedictXVI.
But surely there are less Catholics in Europe now than there are Muslims. If anything saves Europe from Islam it won't be Catholicism, but a secular 'pan-European' movement.
Turkey does not hesitate to identify itself as a "Muslim" nation, but objects to the idea that Europe might in any way be identified as having a Christian heritage. Again, as an always with Muslims, they want it to be a one way street in the world, their way. Several months ago, I heard the esteemed scholar, Bat Ye'or, speak. Someone brought up the subject of Turkey and the EU. If I understood her correctly, Bat Ye'or also opposed Turkey's membership into the EU. She felt that Turkey would gladly allow a large number of its population to move to Europe and would then allow, through EU membership papers, a large number of Muslims from countries to the south and east of it, to pass through Turkey on the way to Europe and speed up the population growth that the Muslims are already winning in the EU.
DC Watson:
"Pope Panzer". That's my LOL of the day - I love it. I hope you don't mind if I borrow that phrase to beat some LLL's over the head with it.
Posted by: johnb at April 21, 2005 12:17 PM
By all means. Have fun. And please remind these LLLs that nowhere in the Bible does it say that it's alright for men to boofoo other men, nor is it acceptable for innocent babies to be aborted simply because their irresponsible mommys have a few too many to drink and can't keep their legs together, while their irresponsible daddys pretend that they're not the daddy, deny paternity, and run off like cockroaches when the lights are turned on.
Lefties and secularists lack Patriotism and the will to fight for “God and Country”. They believe in nothing. Their personal interests are all they care about. Europe’s native populations are shrinking. Thank you Sebastien, excellent post!
My apologies for the previously provided garbage link. Below is a photo of the new Pope. Makes me proud to know I have a fellow beer drinker, especially one of his importance. Muslims, you're in for a long haul.
Pope Panzer:
http://img61.echo.cx/my.php?image=paparatzinger5yf.jpg
Montecassino was one of the most famous monasteries founded by the patron of Europe Saint Benedictus. In salerno very near, it was born protected by the monastery, a school of culture with muslims, jews, catholic and orthodox christians, his founder was an ex-muslim that emigrated from Egypt, Constatine, and was converted to catholicism and later he was a priest.
I think that the things are movings, but I am to be realistic, few to few, because the Chuch is great, and the permanent movements are slow but forever.
Sebastien
'The pope's views on abortion, contraception and gays are totally coherent with the need to value life and repopulate europe. The catholic church has decided that the needs of society outweigh the needs of the individual who wishes to shag without consequences. '
Value life? What life, where women are just breeding machines. Christian society has evolved from this; it is part of what makes us superior to Muslim society. Otherwise we end up with a large population but fail to use the brains, as opposed to the wombs, of half of it.
Turning the clock back isn't the answer, speaking out against Islam and closing the doors to more Muslim immigrants might help. The problem is more one of overbreeding in Muslims, rather than underbreeding in Christians. We should stop subsidising that breeding - cut welfare benefits, cut aid to Muslim countries and so forth.
DC Watson - it is no business of yours whatsoever what a woman does with her body. You should go and join the mullahs - you'll feel at home.
This site is turning into a haven for backward God-botherers. And I'm a Christian, but I hate backward God botherers.
D C Watson posted - re: Brutal oppressive regimes.
It is posited that people get the governments they deserve. It is sad to say but Muslims tend to get brutal regimes, for the simple reason that muslim leaders know how to deal with people who are besotted with the koran. Only such brutal leaders manage to suppress the bloodthirst that the koran induces in people who believe. The examples are far too many to be mere coincidence.
1. Sadat was comparitvely behign, but after his murder, Mubarak instituted draconian measures against the muslim brotherhood and islamists- draconian in the islamic sense. Result- Egypt is slighly better as a consequence.
2. In response to muslim fanaticism, Assad not just went after the families of the brotherhood but went one better - he went after cities. Result - peace in Syria and Lebanon.
3. Saddam - ah well, gas works wonders. Result was that the jihadis kept their heads down and Christians were not persecuted as they are now.
5. Turkey - Kemal Ataturk's prescription for Turkey worked well so long as any tendency towards islamism was severely suppressed by the army. Turkey prospered and was considered a quasi- European country. But now with the army proscribed by the EU and the US, islamism is coming back. The future does not bode well for Turkey, the EU or Turkey's backer the US.
4. Ditto Iran, Yemen, Pakistan, Morroco, Algeria etc
It is really sad that muslims do not realise that the only way their leaders can control the hatred that is let loose by the koran, can be controlled only by a brutal regime.
Interstd posted: Turning the clock back isn't the answer, speaking out against Islam and closing the doors to more Muslim immigrants might help. The problem is more one of overbreeding in Muslims, rather than underbreeding in Christians. We should stop subsidising that breeding - cut welfare benefits, cut aid to Muslim countries and so forth.
I agree with you. How are we to persuade/force Western women to take on the muslims in the demographic race? There is no way we can win in a demographic race with muslims. Muslim women are confined, in the main, to child bearing. Besides, Western women are fully engaged in the economy of the nation. If they were to leave the workplace in significant numbers, then immigration of muslims may become a necessity; not the result we wish to have.
Muslim nations have no real economic or military power. Their main power, is a high birth rate - so long as muslims can offload their excess populations on the West. Limit immigration of muslims, and that very high birth rate becomes a liability, specially if economic contact with muslim nations is limited to the essential.
It is relatively easy to bring down the islamic jihadi beast, and we can do this without firing a shot, more or less.
DP111 You're right. Perhaps one of the problems in Europe is that women have to postpone childbearing because we have to work to pay huge taxes. And those taxes go to support Muslims who don't work and just breed. Things have got to get more strict, but not against women, but against primitive immigrants like Muslims.
I've been somewhat disturbed lately on some websites by a kind of reactionary politics. Islam is macho, so let's fight it with machismo. As a liberated woman I am vehemently opposed to this tendency. Out of the Islamic frying pan into the Christian fundamentalist fire? No thanks.
The huge strength that the West has is brainpower, automatically higher than that of the Muslims because it includes female brainpower.
Let's let the Muslims face the consequences of suppressing their women. Don't feed them, don't support them, let them learn and change. As the West has had to.
DP111 You're right. Perhaps one of the problems in Europe is that women have to postpone childbearing because we have to work to pay huge taxes. And those taxes go to support Muslims who don't work and just breed. Things have got to get more strict, but not against women, but against primitive immigrants like Muslims.
I've been somewhat disturbed lately on some websites by a kind of reactionary politics. Islam is macho, so let's fight it with machismo. As a liberated woman I am vehemently opposed to this tendency. Out of the Islamic frying pan into the Christian fundamentalist fire? No thanks.
The huge strength that the West has is brainpower, automatically higher than that of the Muslims because it includes female brainpower.
Let's let the Muslims face the consequences of suppressing their women. Don't feed them, don't support them, let them learn and change. As the West has had to.
Sorry for the double post - don't know what happened.
The Turkish press has been full of articles denouncing the new Pope. A particular criticism has been his mandatory enrollment. when he was 17, in the Germany army, to man an anti-aircraft battery.
Today's Corriere della Sera has a big article about this which reproduces the front pages of various Turkish newpapers such as Hurriyet. They attack the Pope, not only for believing Europe is not a geographical but a cultural concept (which is why Israel is part of Europe, but Turkey is not), and hence opposed to Turkish membership in the E.U., but for his supposed "Nazi connection." Turkish journalists might be better placed to wax indignant over such matters if "Mein Kampf" were not a best-seller in Turkey itself.
Maybe Israel should join the EU.
About a month ago or so I was surprised to learn that Mein Kampf was a best seller in Turkey also , disturbing news.
DP111,why has Muslim immigration been encouraged and why is it continuing and why is it increasing? Do you actually think that it’s because the countries doing this are just trying to be nice guys? To expand and further embrace the lovely multicultural humanistic living experience? The reason any country employs immigration is economic. Europe as I’ve said many times before has the oldest population of the civilized world and smallest reproduction rate. A lot of good your freedom to live as you like and your money and status etc are going to do in about 20 years when you are the minority dependant on the good graces of you new masters that have taken over due to their sheer numbers. Immigration is being done to make up for the loss in the workforce due to the insufficient numbers of native born.
DC Watson - it is no business of yours whatsoever what a woman does with her body. You should go and join the mullahs - you'll feel at home.
This site is turning into a haven for backward God-botherers. And I'm a Christian, but I hate backward God botherers.
Posted by: Interested at April 21, 2005 03:15 PM
Join the Mullahs? That's hilarious. Exactly correct, it's none of my business what a woman does with her body, but taking responsibility for one's own actions should come into play at some point. And this was merely an example. Let's see, you're a Christian, yet you hate?
That's like saying you're a communist that supports anarchy.
I don’t mean to insult anyones intelligence regarding basic economics but allow me to get my point across. Your Government like all Govt’s require an output of goods to sell to other countries. Your population is dependent on the sales as well as the taxes from the workers that produce them. Governments in order to maintain the status quo for their people must maintain a level of output of GNP. There must be an adequate number of workers and laborers to do this and if not then GNP and sales drop and all the people that the governments supports with the income begin suffer and that’s bad for leaders (unless the leader is a dictator). They will import Muslims or Martians to get the work done. Don’t blame those who will fill the void looking for work or the politicians, the blame for Europe’s demise will be on the people themselves for not maintaining their numbers.
PS: As an alternative to immigration, Governments could increase taxes on the native workers to support the country and stop immigration. Most workers would rather have immigration than that however. Trying to maintain Europe’s economic standard when the population gets even older and younger people don’t reproduce will be how Europe falls, from within through immigration.
"This site is turning into a haven for backward God-botherers"
I guess that would be little ol' me?
BTW, what exactly is a God-botherer? That is a new one on me.
Cross, you haven't insulted my intelligence at all. You certainly seem to have a vast knowledge of economics.
Personally, if the U.S. would limit immigration and seal the Mexican border, that would be a great start. At our current rate, we're allowing a million people a year into the country.
Our infrastructure has recently been given a D- rating by the American Society of Civil Engineers. With that, bringing on more people is not going to help this grade.
With regard to Mexico, they swim in oil, and so long as the illegals keep gaining entry into our nation, costing Americans around 24 billion a year, the Mexican government should be compensating the American people. Oil, being that it's so plentiful, would be a good compensation tool.
More importantly, tens of thousands of Middle Easterners have been caught trying to sneak into the US through that border. Makes me wonder what the Mexican police are doing down there. They're certainly not doing their job, or are they?
BTW, what exactly is a God-botherer? That is a new one on me.
Posted by: Carolyn2 at April 21, 2005 09:23 PM
Why Carolyn, I believe it's the opposite of a "backward" God botherer. LOL
"That's like saying you're a communist that supports anarchy."
Nihilists and anarchists such as Nechayev and Bakunin were admired by Lenin. Their terror tactics were implemented by the "Great Experimentor" when ushering in the Bolshevik revolution.
Nechayev is renowned as the original terrorist (read Catechism of a Revolutionist), but did he have inspiration?
Read "Why the Reversion to Islamic Archaism?" by Lafif Lakhdar here: http://struggle.ws/issues/war/afghan/pamwt/wt2/lakhdar.html
kudos to you DC Watson!!
LOL on that pic of Ratzinger. Looks like a true blue German to me. May Pope Benedict XVI live to be a 100! (Doubt that though.)
Thx DC, I'm simply a casual observer and by no means an expert. But numbers don't lie.
I don't know what you lot are on about, but quit bothering God. He might tsunami you. And no more 'fornicating' over the Christmas season either; that causes tsunamis too. As, apparently, does smoking.
As for the Turks criticizing Benedict; yes, why, oh yes, they're in an excellent position to be able to do so, given their literary preferences, their treatment of minorities, and their (unrecognized) 20th century history.
Geoff
PS: Watching John Stewart fawn over an islamic scholar. Sad. Off-the-cuff jokes and snarking reductionism makes one some kind of media talking point? I've been forced to flip the channel when Stewart's underhand pleading for acceptance gets uncomfortable; you could feel it last night with Dennis Miller last night and it was too embarrassing to watch: "You're a cool, educated man; why aren't you in MY party?" I'm getting the feeling I'm more a libertarian than a Democrat.
Shrug of the old style, it’s not cool anymore to be a Dem or a Lib although a Libertarian has admirable qualities it only takes votes away from what you truly want to be and that is a Republican. Now who’s your daddy?
If the new Pontiff wishes to be an example of what a "Christian" Europe can be, let him take the original vow of poverty that Christ embodied ("it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven") and begin dispensing with all of the Earthly Church's gold fripperies, gold chalices, gold gilt chairs, gold staffs, jewel-encrusted Bibles (pure blasphemy), marble-lined buildings and lavishly furnished apartments, fancy dress costumes, precious rings, anachronistic hats, pricey cars, ornate palaces, the title "princes of the church", bank accounts, art treasures, ad absurdum, ad nauseam.
When one child anywhere is hungry or ill-housed or poorly-clothed or uneducated, this temporal monstrosity, and glaring parody of the essential message of Jesus, is what will always undermine the Organized Church's attempt at incarnating the Christos.
And will continue to make people throughout Europe -and the world- look upon the fancy trappings and all of the irrelevant and expensive machinery of quasi-monarchy with iconoclastic disdain.
It makes you want to get a whip and drive them from the temple.
The more extranneous effulgences that Pope Benedict XVI gives away, the more spirit he will gain.
As a wise man once said:
"Never trust a preacher who has TWO suits."
Revival of Christian Europe:
French Evangelical: A pleasure to meet you sir. My great-grandfather was an animist priest in Gabon.
German Evangelical: Feelings mutual. I was raised as a Turkish Muslim.
You can email the Pope at:
benedictxvi@vatican.va
Gee, Christian Europe. Isn't Europe supposed to be Christian as it has Christian roots? Turkey should have nothing to fear as long as they don't try to Islamize Europe... or maybe their plan is being thwarted. Hmmmm.