“We must stand together with strength and confidence to dispel the myths about Islam and the Muslim community,” said Siddiqui. One thing he might try is a march against terror instead of against anti-terror laws -- and not just a march against "terror," which everyone opposes, but a march against jihad terror. That would dispel a lot of myths. He might also try helping authorities identify jihadist elements in the British Muslim community. That they choose instead to march against anti-terror laws is indicative of the fact that they would rather protect Muslims than protect Britain, even if it leads to a large-scale terrorist attack. Certainly innocents should not be targeted, but no one should complain about just measures that cause some inconvenience. From IslamOnline, with thanks to Skeetstreet:
LONDON, April 30, 2005 (IslamOnline.net) - With general elections around the corner, thousands of British Muslims were set to march Saturday, April 30, in London against anti-terror laws that stigmatized and demonized the Muslim minority in Britain.Two peaceful demonstrations, which are co-organized by some 100 Islamic entities in the United Kingdom, are expected to be the biggest anti-terror march by Muslims Britain has witnessed....
"Anti-terror march"? Isn't it really an anti-anti-terror march?
Chief among the organizers are the Islamic Human Rights Commission (IHRC), Muslim Association of Britain (MAB), University of Oxford Islamic Society, the University College London Ahlul-Beyt Islamic Society, Bradford University Islamic Society and the Islamic Observatory Centre....Adnan Siddiqui, an IHRC official, said the British Muslims can no longer remain silent.
“We must stand together with strength and confidence to dispel the myths about Islam and the Muslim community,” he was quoted as saying by the BBC News Online.
He said Muslims in Britain are sending a clear message against the “climate of fear” created by the “draconian and disproportionate” laws.
The Muslim activist regretted that such laws have been targeting British Muslims who have “made a significant contribution to this society.”
British Prim Minister Tony Blair’s large majority in the House of Commons ensured the anti-terror bill’s approval last month by 309 votes to 233.
"Prim Minister." Very good.
No sooner had the parliament passed the controversial measure, than Home Secretary Charles Clarke swung into action and signed control orders against what he termed “Muslim terror suspects”.Clarke has angered the Muslim minority by saying that they were the main target of the main legislation.
Why, of course. Clarke, you bad dhimmi. Don't you realize you need to spend time investigating the Anglican Terrorist Threat? Anglican Militancy is an ugly thing: they wear sweaters and smoke pipes and sit in soft chairs and talk about modernizing Christianity. How can you not investigate this horrific threat?
What significant contributions have British muslims made to British society?
Anglican Militancy is an ugly thing: they wear sweaters and smoke pipes and sit in soft chairs
Mr Spencer that is hate speech and offensive. How dare you suggest that I smoke a pipe and wear a sweater!!!!!
I am a lady. I wear a cardigan and eat digestive biscuits.
But to the subject in hand. I see that the London march is from Marble Arch to Paddington. Marble Arch and the Edgware Road is a Lebanese and Arab area. Blackburn, meanwhile is Jack Straw's constituency where there is a Moslem orchestrated campaign to oust him because of the Iraq war.
I would be very interested to see accurate figure of the numbers who attend, and how the marches are reported. As Mr Spencer says, “That they choose instead to march against anti-terror laws is indicative of the fact that they would rather protect Muslims than protect Britain” To see significant demonstrations against the measures designed for our protection would open still more eyes to this insidious element.
'Marble Arch to Paddington'? That's spitting distance. Hardly the Jarrow Crusade.
Lazy buggers.
Well it means they can go round twice, and get counted as double.
And with enough identical hijabettes they hope no one will notice.
"They would rather protect Muslims than protect Britain." We find the same story wherever they go: there is no loyalty to the host country and all that is done is to further the goals of Islam rather than helping out the indigenous population. Perhaps they feel that Da'wa, bring them to Islam using any means necessary, is helping them out...
There will be no peace in Islam UNTIL the world is brought under its sway and, furthermore, until all the world is brought under the extremist form of Islam...
Only fey, idiotic leftists support all of this kind of thing. To the rest of us, it shows the true colours of many of these Muslim activits. It is an clear and tacit demonstration in support of Jihad and a refelxive cry of pain at the measures being taken to protect the lives of infidels fromthe murderous slaughter of Jihadis. That this simple measure causes pain to these activits shows what they believe in. Mr Siddique is too stupid to realise that he and his demonstration are plain evidence that the general understanding of Islam is not a myth. It is true, he (and the marchers) are living examples of it.
Their protest might seem as if it's against the UK government, but in reality it is against the wishes of the majority of the British people, implemented by the government.
They can protest until they're blue in the face. If it's so aweful to live in the UK, why are so many of them sneaking in illegally or standing in line at British embassies throughout the Middle East begging for asylum?
Why are they waiting in line? Simple, move into a new country. Breed like crazy, use the ideas of tolerance and fair play to hide your true objectives, and eventually take over. Some interesting reading at Ummah.com......
"This much said, it would be foolish to deny that the prospects for American acceptance of such institutions as stoning, or flogging or amputation are virtually nil, at least for the foreseeable future".
"The second thing to keep in mind is that notions of what is cruel and unusual, of what is barbaric, of what is barbaric, of what is draconian (which is the real basis upon which America rejects these punishments) are a function of culture, not law. It is only through changes in American culture that American attitudes towards such things are likely to change".
Just makes you feel all warm and fuzzy, doesn't it? We too could be part of a 7th century hellhole!
“We must stand together with strength and confidence to dispel the myths about Islam and the Muslim community,”
Yes, I couldn't agree more!
According to the Dhimmi Broadcasting Corp
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4501311.stm
and
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4499849.stm
2000 (according to the organisers) or 800 (according to the police) marched (looks more like a shamble to me)from Marble Arch to Paddington, which as Interested pointed out is not far. See I was right, they went round again and counted themselves twice.
In Blackburn the turnout was 150/200
As I have suggested before look at the pictures; they are worth 1000 words. Lots of crocheted hats and candy floss beards and not a woman, not even a hijabette, in sight. Note the placard "Our community will not spy on each other" Unless we are rooting out vice, and honour murdering our sisters.
A march against anti-terror laws not a march against terror.One more proof that they are not with us in this fight.
Granny Weatherwax
From the D.B.C article you quoted, Mr Inayat Bunglawala
[["There is no denying that in the last few years we have seen a curtailing of some basic liberties for the purpose of maintaining a state of fear amongst the British public."]]
Do you get that? These laws have only been instituted 'for the purpose of maintaining a state of fear amongst the British public'. The big bad boogey man in Westminster put this legislation in effect to demonise Islam and keep the British people 'scared'. No mention of militant extremism, Jihadism or the phenomenon of terrorists coming from Muslim communities. None of that exists. All that exists is the conspiracy against Muslims.
It is pathetic. Why dont journalists rip these people's arguments apart? What are they waiting for?
The mask slips so easily to reveal where their real concern lies. They are reeling in pain from the fact that the Jihad is being clamped down on.
Weasel words. Massive, extreme, disgraceful Jihadi weasel words.
Sorry for the repeated posting of this link -- which is from an Islamic website -- but for those who do not recognise the economic drain imposed on British society by these parasites, a gentle reminder:
http://www.islamic.co.uk/statistics/disadvantage.asp
Well it means they can go round twice, and get counted as double.
And with enough identical hijabettes they hope no one will notice.
Granny Weatherwax, you're on a roll today.
"Hijabette" should enter the language.
Charles
That link always merits examination.
Of particular interest from the page you suggested:- "Pakistani Muslims are three times more likely to be jobless than Hindus are. Indian Muslims are twice as likely to be unemployed than Indian Hindus are."
So that rules out colour prejudice, or language.
Voltaire posted: What significant contributions have British muslims made to British society?
Plenty.
1. Job creation - Muslims have made significant dents in the social security budget. Muslims are the greatest recipients of welfare, and thus create jobs for social workers and others.
2. Job creation in maternity hospitals.
3. Job creation in the security sector. MI5 and 6 people would be out of jobs but for muslims.
4. Ditto in law courts and the prison sector.
This subtle support for Jihad by Muslims is also very real in Canada,below is the link to a recent protest by an Islamic Org. that wants terrorists and murders to be protected by the Charter Of Rights,the revoking of Citizenship
and deportation of foreigners that lied on past or current criminal activities when applying
for perminant residence status and then Citizenship.
With Muslims only making up about 1 percent
of the population in Canada,it really amazes
me that some of them now want to run our Immigration system and condone certain types of mass murders.
http://www.canadianislamiccongress.com/mc/media_communique.php?mcdate=2005-02-21
This Islamic group is the same weasels that are fighting for Shariah-Law for female Muslims
and also demand that the Government ban Gays from
being deems "A couple" for benefits and social
Rights.
Islam is being exposed for what it is and it's the Muslims that are doing all the educating
of us Infidels on how it's a death cult.
BTW,the website home page has a article comparing
Bush to Hitler.
But as you read the paralells to Hitler,the article is more discriptive of Muhammed's life
and propaganda crusades to demonize the Christians and Jews.
Irony is so sweet.
According to MrAmin, a anti-anti-terror marcher, "None of the main parties are offering any solutions for Muslims - they all have the same agenda," he said."
I wonder what that agenda is?
And another thing, it is good for Mr Amin that the main parties are not offering any solutions for muslims. If they did, then the Conservative poster would come to mind - Are you thinking what we are thiking?
Granny
The difference is due to Islamophobia, I'm sure.
Granny Weatherwax
Hindus and Sikhs came to England at the same time as Pakistani Muslims, experienced the same racism and struggle, started from the same working class base, had the same problems of language, and yet they have left Pakistanis behind in the dust. They have gone forward, Muslims have gone backwards. This is the killer fact that destroys all of the leftist-Islamic whining arguments about British society being to blame for their backwardness. Thats why the Guardian and other left wing commentators conveniently forget the experience of Indians in Britain which has generally been very successful. It single handedly shows up Islamophobia and the rest of that nonsense for what it is, wallowing self pity, excuses for failure.
The reasons for Muslim backwardness in the UK lie within the Muslims themselves. The Sikh and Hindu experience proves that.
Zico
I gather from what I overhear that the Pakistani and Bangladeshi Moslems are bitterly jealous of the Hindu and Sikh success.
Granny Weatherwax
I spent a few of my teenage years growing up in a neighbourhood that had a large Indian population. I still have close Sikh and Hindu friends. What most British people dont realise is that the whole issue of Muslim identity arose partly because Pakistanis wanted to distance themselves from the infidel Indians. They did not want to be associated with those God-less pagans. That is what the hysteria of the Rushdie affair was all about. They simply did not want to share public space with infidels, they wanted to bully their identity into the forefront.
Pakistanis in England detest the relative success of Indians, because it reflects back on them and makes clear their own decrepitude and failure and nastiness. It also awakens ancient inferiority complexes towards Hindus. And while everything is not rosy for Indians with their culture, it is so far ahead of Pakistanis it is unreal. Did you know that there was a grassroots campaign amongst Sikh students for the British Army to form a Sikh Regiment, to be drawn from young Sikhs in England? Now I think it is not a good idea, we should integrate, but that tells you everything you need to know about the difference in attitude between the communities.
There are many things that go unreported by the media, in terms of Muslim violence and harassment of Indians in towns across England, at University Campuses too. Speak to an Indian, most of them are not brainwashed, they will tell you the inside story on Pakistani Islam in Britain, they know it unvarnished.
The Sunday Times published a list of the richest Asians in Britain, virtually every single one was a self made millionaire, either an immigrant, or the sons or daughters of immigrants, and virtually everyone was an Indian Hindu or Sikh, hardly any were Pakistani Muslim, there were literally a handful.
They make good taxi drivers though.
In the Midlands, in the Black Country towns like Dudley and Walsall, Pakistani Muslim gangs go out at night to specifically beat up black Carribean men and teenagers. They hate them with the passion that National Front skinheads used to beat up their own fathers and grandparents in the 1970's. Amazing! All this rage and hatred and anger. So much is unreported in the media in Britain, so much is going on that the media simply will not report.
One of those Black Country towns, Tipton, was the home of some of those 'lads' who were held at Guantanomo Bay, for accidently being on 'vacation' in Afghanistan. Imagine the kind of organised hateful brainwashing that must have taken place in the mosques of that town to make them go abroad to try and fight a Jihad. What is left for those Muslim boys who dont go abroad, but have been punped full of Jihad and hatred and hyped up with contempt for the entire Kaffir-Christian-Jewish world? How to let off all that steam that has been mainlined into them by the local Mad Mullah and the local chapter of the Jihadi Crew? Run around at night beating up black Christian men and teenagers to release some of the energy. People just dont connect the dots.
Zico - interesting what you say.
In an attempt at counter-dawa I've been debating with Lefties. It really is like wading through treacle.
At Harry's Place: http://hurryupharry.bloghouse.net/
I've been struggling to explain the evils of Islam. Constantly I get told I'm a racist. When I point out that I have no quarrel with Hindus, Arab Christians etc, who are the same race as many Muslims, that Islam is not a race, nor a religion but a political ideology, people still think I'm a racist.
The UK is so not a racist country. There is a real, genuine openness to other races and cultures. But people have genuine concerns about not wanting to be taken over by a reactionary, totalitarian, misogynistic ideology.
Islam goes against everything leftists claim to believe in: gay rights, women's rights, equality before the law, you name it.
The success of Hindus and Sikhs is proof that the UK is not, fundamentally intolerant of race or religion. Hindus and Sikhs are our allies - if they speak out against Muslims they can do so without being accused of racism.
Unfortunately the only political party to have made this connection is the BNP. They are stirring up anti-Muslim feeling amongs Hindus and Sikhs, but they have a long term agenda and would turn on those people once they had served their purpose.
Interested
The BNP are bigots. They hate Jews, are riddled with holocaust deniers, and they ruin our cause. People need to hear more about the relative success of Indians because it completly blows out of the water everything that the left and the Jihadi's claim about Britain.
*Colonialism is a legacy which holds back Muslims:
-Well, Hindus and Sikhs suffered under the British Raj, it hasnt held them back, has it?
*Discrimination about religious attire is bigotry against Islam:
-Well, orthodox Sikhs wear a turban, and it hasnt stopped them doing well, and they do suffer from racist taunts etc, it makes them stick out, but they dont complain, they just get on with it.
At the very minimum Muslims have to explain why Hindus do so much better than them in terms of education and employment, when Hindus suffer from the same petty prejudices, but they still go out and succeed.
The reason is ideology and mindset. At heart, Indians have no antagonism to Britain, they get stuck in, they dont moan, they dont wallow in self pity. Sikhs could be marching up and down the streets moaning about how the British stole the Kohinoor Diamond and brought down the Sikh Empire in Punjab (the Anglo-Sikh Wars were bloody and violent), but they dont! Hindus could do the same, but they dont! They realise thats the past and they get on with life and they contribute. Muslims read a story of Imperialism into everything, if a Muslim child falls off his bicycle someone somewhere will blame it on the Crusades, the Palestine question, and Lord Mountbattens failure to give enough territory to Pakistan in the 1947 partition of India!
Like I said, Indians are absolute irrefutable proof that the causes of Muslim backwardness and poverty in Britain are within themselves. Their leaders, their culture, their religion, their attitude, their Mullahs. Leftists encourage this so they have a victim to weep over and pull their hair out because they are full of self-hatred. Thats why they ignore Indian success, because it slaps their ideology and theory in the face, so they conveniently ignore facts like Hindu success stories.
The fact is that Muslims cause their own poverty and backwardness and then blame us for it. Blame British society and blah blah blah. This is outrageous and it is lies and mendacity.
Zico - quite. Don't think for one minute that I have any brief for the BNP - they are evil, and cynically exploiting anti-Muslim feeling for a racist agenda.
I'll try to use the argument about Hindus more effectively next time. At the moment the argument tends to go:
Lefty Moonbat: You're a racist going on about Islam.
Me: No I'm not - if I were racist I'd have a go at Hindus - in the UK they're the same race as Muslims.
Lefty Moonbat: Hinduism has the caste system. Christianity had the Spanish inquisition. You never have a go at them.
Me: Hindus don't practise the caste system in the UK, but Muslims want to impose Sharia. The Spanish inquisition was years ago.
Lefty Moonbat: You're a racist.
etc etc.
God it's annoying.
According to BBC News Online, organisers of the London march put the number of marchers at 2,000, while the police estimated 800. In Blackburn 150-200 took to the streets.
All of which merited a lengthy news story:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4499849.stm
Oh, and a feature article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4501311.stm
Yesterday's League Two (basically the fourth division) football match between Yeovil Town and Wycombe Wanderers attracted a crowd of 7,421...
Interested
Hang in there. Keep refining the arguments. The leftists remind me of these perverts who get turned on in S&M dungeons, so full of self hatred, wanting to be beaten up and abused. I actually think they get turned on in a strange way by the hatred they legitimise whenever they accede to the Islamic/Jihadi paradigm, like they want to get whipped or something.
I might get stuck into the debates on http://hurryupharry.bloghouse.net because it is always good to stress out these dingbat lefty fruitcakes with simple logic and irrefutable truth.
Dont worry about the racist tag. That is slowly being rendered meaningless because of its over use by those idiots, who should be ashamed of themselves, because it trivialises genuine racism when it occurs.
Effractor
Of course the BBC were there to report the event. It is part of their charter to uncritically broadcast dawah and unquestioningly support without any tough questioning all Muslim propaganda. This is something they are obliged to do by editorial fiat, it would seem. Thats why we call them the DBC (Dhimmi Broadcasting Corporation).
Zico - it would be really nice if you could help. I post there as Old Peculiar (not sure why, because I am neither). You may want to look at some of my past posts to avoid going over old ground.
There is a growing band of non-idiotarians at HP and I'm trying to increase their numbers.
Harry's Place is an excellent site, with lots of thoughtful people who want to think the best of everyone. Unfortunately many give Islam the benefit of the doubt because they don't want to be seen to slag off anything non-Western, no matter how evil. It's quite satisfying to try to trap them with questions like: is it racist to condemn stoning? Another question I like to ask, when this tedious racism thing comes up is: Remind me again, what race are Muslims?
Good luck. I think converting the leftists, who are the useful idiots of the jihadis is a good bit of counter-dahwa. Rikki said he'd been trying to do this too.
It's hard keeping track of the number of Muslim organisations in the UK (they are mushrooming at an extraordinary rate), but I just googled one mentioned in the report I had not heard of before. The Islamic Observatory Centre sounds like something to do with long telescopes but isn't. Among the results generated was an old report in the Egyptian weekely Al-Ahram:
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2002/582/eg7.htm
A scroll down to the fifth para and this:
Another of those indicted is Yasser El- Serri, the former head of the London-based Islamic Observatory Centre who is currently in custody in Britain. The 39-year-old Egyptian militant was arrested shortly after the 11 September attacks last year, and was charged with complicity in the murder of Afghan opposition commander Ahmed Shah Massoud on 9 September. He has also been accused of providing support for the banned Al-Gama'a Al-Islamiya, procuring funds for terrorist purposes and publishing material likely to incite racial hatred.
So, nothing to worry about there then.
Interested
I will keep visiting that blog and jump in when I feel I have something good to say. It is an excellent blog, and I particularly like the take they have on the hysteria and nastiness of the new anti-Semitism and the vituperative and disgraceful vilification of Israel. That is good.
Effractor
Its true, these Islamic Organisations seem to spring out of nowhere, there seems to be a new one in every article you read. It is good to monitor what they come out with. Good work on that info on 'The Islamic Observatory Centre'
Why don't they just openly march for what they DO want?
"Women are worth half of a man!
(That would make a nifty banner! Maybe a rainbow made up of bloody swords arching over the words?)
"Allah's will must become the Law of the land!"
(Alliterative and pithy!)
"Death to all infidels!"
(They could have a parenthetical subtitle saying:
"'People of the Book' may be spared if they submit to second-class status under Sharia Law")
And:
"Mohammad said: 'Lie to all non-Muslims!'"
(Although that might be a little too paradoxical for them.)
Let's get the real march going!
And on to Paris and Amsterdam and Berlin!
Efractor,
Yes, I think the Islamic Observance Centre is on Edgware Road which they would have marched past.
I've got a cutting about that man who is wanted abroad for terrorist offences somewhere when I've got this room tidied up.
In fact the Edware Road is the favourite weekend haunt for Arabs in London. There must have been more Muslims having coffee or smoking through a hookah than taking part in the 900-yard march.
On Friday/Saturday evening there are lots of groups of Arab girls strolling up and down that street, obviously none of them felt like joining the demo.
Efractor,
Yes, I think the Islamic Observance Centre is on Edgware Road which they would have marched past.
I've got a cutting about that man who is wanted abroad for terrorist offences somewhere when I've got this room tidied up.
In fact the Edware Road is the favourite weekend haunt for Arabs in London. There must have been more Muslims having coffee or smoking through a hookah than taking part in the 900-yard march.
On Friday/Saturday evening there are lots of groups of Arab girls strolling up and down that street, apparently none of them felt like joining the demo.
Good Morning Interested, Zico, Effractor,Elephant,
I went to bed, can no longer stand the pace, and missed some good debate by the looks of things.
Interested, Old Pequliar is excellent Yorkshire beer, and a very good name. In my opinion. I have never looked at Harrys, Rikki pointed me towards Debating forum which I read occasionally but do not post.
I think our various experiences accord about the differences a religion has made to what was originally the same ethnic group.
I will be off to church shortly, and by the time I get back there will be new threads and new debates, but I will look back here as I think this has been a valuable discussion for the UK.
I expect a congregation at church somewhat larger than the Blackburn shuffle. We muster more than the Edgware Road turn out to walk through the town centre on Good Friday morning.
Granhy Weatherwax
It is a pleasure to read your pithy, cutting but wryly humourous posts too.
I think we should never stop destroying the assumptions inherent in the claims made for Muslim failure. We should be relentless in putting the spotlight onto them, we should never stop questioning their outrageous lie that Britain is to blame for their backwardness and failure.
Granny Weatherwax - love the 'Blackburn shuffle'.
These Muslims are so lazy and dozy they can't even do a proper March.
Zico-
I have to chime in here, you wrote:
"In the Midlands, in the Black Country towns like Dudley and Walsall, Pakistani Muslim gangs go out at night to specifically beat up black Carribean men and teenagers............."
Now, I am a US citizen. Yup, gun-toting, right wing, anti-idiotarian and from south of the Mason-Dixon Line, also. For those of you unfamiliar, the Mason-Dixon Line demarks North and South. Yes, Southern, gun-toting, right wing, anti-idiotarian. Redneck, you say? Why, thank you!
Beleive it or not, the south learned the lessons of integration better than the north. Most here decided that "what the hell, we are on the wrong side of the argument, let's make the best of it...." In the US south there is less institutionalized racism than the northern states. That being said, it is interesting to see the conversation here. Former citizens of the failed Muslims states going out in gangs at night to pick on one of the underclasses. Black Carribeans?
Now, I find that citizens of the UK are better educated in world history than I, so who was responsible for most of the slave trade in blacks that went on in Africa?
I think I know the answer. They still think that slave ownership is okay.
The Hobo