U.S. to tighten border controls!

And get rid of that Visa Waiver Programme. Let people apply for a visa so they can get checked appropriately and check the visas before someone boards a plan. I'm well prepared to apply for a visa. They should just make it less expensive (currently 80 Euros here in Germany)

That should have read "plane"... sorry

2008, wow, come one come all. Get here before 2008. I think I've seen it all, then Washington bests itself.

I need some help here-

I saw a similar article in Americans and Muslims by the same name. I've cobbed together a letter.
Please read this over a give me some feedback.
--------------------------------------------

Muslims and Loyalty

I don't like to sound Islamiphobic but the painful question must be asked: "Can True Muslims be Loyal Americans?" Let me explain why I ask the question.

There have been numerous instances of US citizens joining terrorist organizations or openly advocating violent overthrow of the US government or expressing a deep hate of the USA. Who you say?

John Allen Muhammad - The DC sniper was a Muslim, claiming allegance to Ben Laden.
John Lee Malvo - A Muslim and accomplace to John Allen Muhammed
Terri Nichols - Allegedy supported by Islamic money.
Sadeq Naji Ahmed - Naturalized US citizen, US Air Force, advocated support for Ben Laden.
Kifah Jayyousi - Detroit school administrator - Terrorist Support.
John Walker - The American Taliban.

There's more, but for now that will do. All of them US citizens and all of them Muslim. All races, and colors, but every one of them Muslim. Of the 19 hijackers of 9/11, 15 were Saudies, one was Egyption, two were from the United Arab Emirates, and one from Lebanon. But again, all of them were Muslim.

Hmm... is there something in common here?

True Muslims have their loyaly specified by their religion. That loyalty is in order of importance:
Loyalty to Islam
Loyalty to the umma al-islamiyya (fellow Muslims)

OK, so their religion says the must be loyal to Islam and fellow Muslims. So what?

Well since you asked… non-believers are kafir and non muslim lands are Dar al-Harb (Lands of War). The world consists of Muslims and Infadels - nothing else exists. Jihad is a Muslim obligation and the Koran calls for a good Muslim to go on Jihad, to leave his home and family, sacrifice evrything to fight in Allah’s cause, because he will be amply rewarded by Allah.

So where does that put US patriotism and loyalty? Clearly, for true Muslims, their first loyalty is to Islam, then their fellow Muslims, and then what?

True Muslims want Sharia law, a secular government based upon the Koran, and Islam to be the only religion. All of these things are the very antithesis of what is American.

What happened to God, Country, and apple pie?

Make no mistake here - Believers and Infidels, that's how the world is populated in Muslim eyes. This separation of the worlds population is everywhere in the Muslim religion: the Koran, the Hadith, and the Sira. To say otherwise is just disinformation for consumption by the kafir.

I guess you'll have to decide, because they are even now trying to stuff it down your throat.

Thank you George Bush,as a Canadian I've have watched our Liberals avoid any tough security measure because immigrants are their source for the voter pool to get re-elected.
This mindset puts all Canadians in danger and
even the Muslims that are against the tight security that's trying to catch terrorists before they act. The RCMP was attack for not arresting the Air-India bombers who killed 331 passengers on a 747 that left Canada with uncheck luggage
because a scanning machines was shut down for repairs,now we have Muslim leaders attacking the RCMP for detaining people that might be part of a plot to murder Canadians.
With several muslim Org's (mainly CAIR) bitching about border checks that profile
Muslims based on Racism,the new system will hopefully shut them up since all Canadians will
need papers to get into the USA.
It's our own fault for electing the session of Liberals that care more about the fat pensions
at the end of the rainbow then the lives of the taxpayers that will pay for those handouts.

My past employment had me file a extensive
history document that was in triplicate because the RCMP had to get one copy so I would be on record if any financial fraud was committed
by me and I tried to flee the Country.
I'm clean and have no fear of updating these papers and so should ever Muslim in Canada,it's nice that CAIR is willing to take the risk with my life when it come to security,but I'd prefer
to have the National security trump any hurt feelings by the career victims within Islam.

Lets see if CAIR-canada endorses this plan
to make all Canadians subject to the same rules.

Typical Washington head-as-rectum-probe solution.

Instead of controlling the illegal immigration problem -which already exists- whereby the serious threat from terrorist infiltration will occur -and by also stopping the undermining of the U.S. through the illegal alien drain on our social services, the government imbeciles create a new impediment for their own citizens who are behaving lawfully.

With this de facto 'tax' on all who travel to the neighboring contries, since we will be forced to buy a passport to go anywhere in Mexico, Canada or Puerto Rico, the fools in power ignore the real worry of the populace (illegals), and devise a way to cost us more in money and incovenience to accomplish their inane goal (making the law-abiding give them more bucks to solve nothing).

It's as if they have an upside-down think tank coming up with this stuff. From the University of Laputa?

Passports are irrelevant if you sneak across the border via New Mexico or Texas or Ontario. While we all waste more resources on meaningless 'fixes', the WMD deadly threat grows worse daily.

But at least the terrorists have a good laugh at our expense as they smuggle a dirty bomb or beaker of smallpox across the desert below Phoenix, cackling:

"What idiots these American leaders are! Passports! We don't need no stinking passports!
Ha-ha-ha! ALLAHU AKBAR!"

And does this tightening of US borders also mean the government will cut down immigration of people from the Mexico border or will only the normal citizens be bullied by these set of laws?

Umma, that illustrates the absurdity of it all very nicely. We don't want your dog because its shots might not be up to date, but hey Khadr family, welcome back!

I do appreciate a country's need to protect the health of its wildlife and domestic animals, but when they don't take a nation's security even a tenth as seriously, something's screwy.

By 2008 ... yes, why the wait? Gives them a deadline. 3 years to get everybody over the border, and in place.

This reminds me of the old slogan about gun control: "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns." I'm sure the nice, law-abiding terrorists will be sure to get legal visas and passports before they enter the U.S. to attack us. The idiots in Washington continue to ignore the porous borders where there are no checkpoints and anyone can just walk in.

I feel so much better now, especially since this really great safeguard won't take effect for a few years. The terrorists who are already in the country will probably be cavorting with their virgins in paradise by then, and who knows what they will do to us before they go.

I would advise every body to get a passport now
because there is a good chance that the queue to get in is going to be so long,it could take 8 years to re-enter,
I hope your goverment doesnt cave in when cair starts demanding that pasports should be issued to all citizens of the USA/United States of Allah

500 new agents to patrol Arizona border

By Jerry Seper
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

NACO, Ariz. -- Federal officials yesterday said more than 500 new U.S. Border Patrol agents will be assigned along the U.S.-Mexico border in southeastern Arizona to combat illegal immigration and protect against potential terrorists.
Department of Homeland Security (DHS) officials said the plan will be announced today, just days before the start of a border vigil by an army of civilian volunteers angry about a lack of immigration enforcement by Congress and the Bush administration.

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20050330-125346-1389r.htm

Only three years to wait! Guess this gives Binny Laden and Al Quaeda plenty of time to wipe out a few landmarks...

BillR,
I am a Muslim and have to say that your letter is absolutely appalling. I cannot believe that in this day and age there are people in the West that hold such extreme, Islamaphobic views.

This is truly sickening. The large majority of Muslims grieved with the US after the 9/11 attacks. Lets not forget history and the rise of the Nazi party.

In the UK the spreading of religious intolerance is a crime, I hope you realise that if you were to say such abhorrent things in the UK you would be charged.

ia786

ia786 :

Your very own Quran makes it clear that every muslim must strive to create an Islamic state(Khalifah) where ever they live,to do any less is a sin in the eyes of Allah.

Muhammed believed he was told to make Earth a Islamic society ruled by Shariah law,the peace that CAIR claims is the basis for Islam is because once all opponents are slaughtered
the remaining Muslim population won't kill each other.
Iraq has proven Muhammed to be wrong,and 9/11
showed that Muslims will kill other muslims that they see as "False" believers that aren't the "True" Muslims. A local Muslim leader has had death threats by Muslims that feel he is practising a false version of islam in the West,tell him that the world will see peace when it's all Muslims that accept each other.

As for loyalty,living here for 20 years or more makes you no more American then Ibrahim Hooper
living in a garage would make him a Car.
With the claim by CAIR that they speak for the 5 million Muslims that abhor violence,CAIR's online petition called "Not in the name of Islam" that denounces terrorism only has just under 700,000
endorsements and some aren't even Muslims.
American muslims are only 0.0008 percent of the 1.2 billion on Earth,maybe you've got it wrong
and when they come to bomb your mosques I'm sure
you'll embrace "Profiling" at Airports,unless you believe it's Allah's will that you die this way.

*DON'T YA JUST HATE FREE-SPEECH*

Religion of peace

At least three mosques were attacked during this reporting period. One was destroyed and two were damaged. All three belonged to the nonorthodox Amadhiyah community, which some Muslims reject as deviant. From September 10 to 13, 2002, in the East Lombok town of Selong, thousands of orthodox Muslims attacked an Amadhiyah mosque, burning the structure and a number of nearby houses and shops. Three hundred and forty residents reportedly fled. On the night of December 23, 2002, in the village of Manior Lor, Kuningan District, West Java, a mob of orthodox Muslims attacked two Amadhiyah mosques, but the congregation did not flee the area. On October 7, 2002, in the Lombok village of Batuyong, a mob forced followers of the Indonesian Islamic Propagation Institute (LDII), a messianic Islamic group, to leave the village. The attackers, angered by the Government's lack of action against what they viewed as a deviant sect, burned 13 homes of LDII followers. The congregation fled but later returned. On December 9, 2002, in the Central Sulawesi village of Moutong, a clash between two groups of Muslims reportedly left two people dead and seven houses burned. The clash reportedly occurred when one group of residents, who follow mainstream Islamic teachings, became upset with what they considered the extreme ideology preached by LDII members who had entered their area.

Religion of peace

Angry Shias responded to the killings with arson attacks

Pakistan probes assault on Shias

Authorities in Pakistan have ordered an inquiry into an attack on Shia Muslims which left at least 43 people dead as they marked the holy day of Ashura.

A curfew is in place in the city of Quetta where the attack took place, with soldiers patrolling its streets.

Separately, 13 Shia women and children died in a stampede in north-western Pakistan late on Tuesday.

Pakistan has a history of clashes between radical groups among its Shia minority and majority Sunnis.

Interior Minister Faisal Saleh Hayat condemned the Quetta attack.

"These misguided extremists want to create chaos in the country," he said on Wednesday.

"The government is aware of their designs and determined to continue its fight against extremism and sectarianism."

Mass funeral

The authorities in Quetta said one person injured in the violence had been arrested on suspicion of involvement in the attack.

The man had been beaten by a mob and handed over to police.

Automatic gunfire created chaos in the procession

The Associated Press news agency reported that there were two other attackers, both of whom died.

Homes, businesses and a mosque used by Sunni Muslims were torched by rioters following the killings.

Security had been tight on Tuesday for Ashura, following a similar attack on a Shia religious gathering in Quetta last year that left 50 people dead.

Tuesday's attack coincided with devastating explosions in the Iraqi cities of Baghdad and Karbala that left nearly 200 dead - these too targeted Shias who had been celebrating Ashura, the anniversary of the death of the Prophet Muhammad's grandson.

I was present near the procession when we first heard an explosion and then some people fired shots

Quetta Mayor Abdul Rahim Kakar

The BBC Islamabad correspondent says it is unlikely the two events were linked.

Quetta's mayor said the inquiry there would investigate whether the attack was the work of a local extremist group or if foreign elements were involved.

No group has said it carried out the attack.

The city's chief Shia cleric, Allama Mahdi Najfi, said a mass funeral was being prepared on Wednesday at the main mosque.

However, he said it would not take place until 25 Shia youths allegedly held by police for damaging public property were freed.

Mob rampage

Eyewitnesses to Tuesday's attack said that as the procession was passing through the city's shopping district, a grenade was thrown, followed by firing from automatic guns.

Police at the scene say they were unable to tell whether the shots were being fired on the procession or by Shias in self-defence.

At least five policemen are among those reported dead.

SHIA FESTIVAL: ASHURA

Annual Shia festival commemorating martyrdom of Imam Hussein

Hussein, grandson of Prophet Mohammad, killed at Karbala by army of Caliph Yazid in 680

Faithful strike themselves with chains and swords to atone for Hussein martyrdom

The murder 19 years earlier of Ali, Hussein's father, gave rise to the central schism in Islam between Sunni and Shia

Afterwards groups of angry Shias attacked shops, vehicles and government property before security forces fired shots and tear gas to disperse them.

Late into Tuesday night, firefighters tackled blazes set by rioters. About 60 shops, a cinema and a bank were burned.

The exact number of dead remains unclear - some estimates put casualty figures higher, and doctors say they expect the death toll to rise.

At least 100 people are in hospital receiving treatment.

Short circuit

The stampede that left 13 people dead took place in the town of Parachinar, 250km (155 miles) west of the capital, Islamabad.

Local officials said a short circuit plunged a mosque into darkness, sparking panic.

"Dozens of women and children crammed on a staircase which collapsed under the pressure," said Parachinar official Azam Khan.

Another two people died in a shooting incident during a Shia procession in Punjab province, while 40 more were injured following clashes between Shias and Sunnis in the town of Phalia, 600km north-east of Quetta.

Last July, Quetta was the scene of one of the worst outbreaks of sectarian violence in Pakistan, when attackers armed with machine guns and grenades stormed a Shia mosque, killing 50 people who were praying inside.

About 97% of Pakistan's population is Muslim, and Sunnis outnumber Shias by about four-to-one

ia786,

http://www.faithfreedom.org/debates/JackMack.htm

Please have a look at the site detailed above.

Sadly having looked at the core of Islam most people here see the religion as evil, and that good people like yourself are misled by it and that is an even greater sadness.

I read a lot of Iraqi and Middle-East blogs and they seem to be crying out for the freedoms that we get in Europe, but with without respect for individual rights it is virtually impossible.

The UK law is mis-guided and wrong in regards to Islam, because Islam is also a political system and a legal system and as such my freedom of speach has been eroded by defining any criticism of Islam as blasphamy, sorry that is fundementally wrong.

The UK does not ban extreme right-wing parties like other European countries, but there has to be a balance between hate-speach and the truth. I hate racism, based on a colour of skin or race, but I will disgree with people following and ideology.

BillR is right that the majority of Muslims have a primary loyalty to Muslims, we have seen that in so many cases. And that is at the core of your religion. That you have non-Muslim friends from your earlier post show that you are not living by what is defined in the Qu'ran, so you are applying freedom of choice, cherish it my friend, because its key to a great life.

Regards

Daffers

Lets not forget history and the rise of the Nazi party
I for one have not forgotten,neither have I forgotten the documented links between the Nazis and Muzis[ooops muslims]
There should be a stop for all muslims to enter Europe/America/Australia so as to protect our good hardworking islamic citizens who are already here from there peace loving brothers and sisters.

Shiva,

Hi, I am well aware of the reasons behind the rise of the Nazi's, humiliation from the First World War and economic and political chaos. The issue for the future is that we are coming to a period of political chaos in Europe as political Islam flexes it muscles while its less enlightened followers annoy the natives...

I am with you in that I want to stop further Muslim immigration with the view to assimilate the existing people within our socities. But this does go against individual freedoms which I seriously regret.

Regards

Daffers

The elites will only act when they themselves feel threatened(as a collective...,individuals are less important). And the threat they percieve may not be the same one that is apparent to everybody else. The stated remedies may have ramifications that go far beyond what is publicly presented.
In other words their words and actions should not be taken as acknowlegement and agreement with what the "little people" have been advocating. The truth is that the elites are far more concerned with the control of the "masses" than they are about 3 cities going up in a mushroom cloud.
The march towards Utopia will not be derailed by that, it may even be hastened. Utopia as defined by total and absolute control by them and willing subservience "by the people" forever.

Could the person who dislikes BillR's letter please point out the errors therein?

This is a typical inconvenience-the-law-abiding non-solution. Disillusioned German, as someone who actually once worked on a US visa line, I assure you that nobody gets more than a 1-3 minute interview. Visa waiver was implemented because certain countries (your own included) contributed very little to illegal immigration in the USA and had visa waiver programs for Americans. It has always been a way to keep people from clogging up consular offices. Period.

And, how many rock-ribbed, small-government American conservatives are willing to pay the taxes needed to support an enhanced and stronger consular service?

And I'm not sure checking passports at the world's longest peaceful border is an answer, either. Maybe more extensive police cooperation between Washington and Ottawa would be far better--especially since Canada has its own problems with bad actors. Heavens! I can foresee the crowd of border-crossers at Niagara Falls backed up all the way to Syracuse!

And, BigSleep, you're 100% right about the
people who sneak across borders. They won't miss a beat.

Tougher enforcement of immigration laws (especially tightening asylum rules and procedures, plus better language and area training for iNS) and a sea-change on the judicial bench are what's needed. Maybe, if Lynne Stewart could hang for being a conduit for terrorist messages, we could straighten up some of the legal profession while we're at it. Sure, we have real problems since 9/11; but a large, neglected fact is that the average border crosser from Canada or visitor from Japan or W. Europe is gone in less than a month of perfectly legit business or tourism. I'd really like to see laws that inconvenience real wrongdoers, for a change.

Yes, somehow telling the truth about islam is "hate-speech". Islamaphobia is a new invention to intimidate people into censoring their own speech. Heavens to Betsy, don't speak the truth, it might make someone realize what a threat islam is, and insist that it's adherants either integrate into the society they have chosen to move to or LEAVE. Muslims are completely free to live with their 7th century rules and laws in their own lands, but if you choose try to IMPOSE your religion and your backwards ways on the rest of us, that means war.

We are waking up, and we are going to spread the word. We do not want war, but do not expect us to roll over and hand our lands and our children to evil....that is not going to happen.

As long as our Constitution stands we have the right to free speech. If it hurts your feelings, too bad. I've had my feelings hurt about my religion right here in this forum, guess what? I lived. You can get over it. My G-D doesn't need me to protect Him, HE is G-D and can take care of any and everything.

This may be necassary but it's sad. One of the terrorists goals is to weaken the U.S. and it's allies economically. There is an extremely large and important economic activity between the Canadian and U.S. borders and it goes both ways. Given the current cost of Canadian passport ($87 plus photos) how many families will forgo a day trip or summer vacation to upstate New York or Washington when a family with two teenagers needs to pay out an additional $400 before the vacation begins. The same also holds true for U.S. residents who would normally take a trip to Toronto or Vancouver. I don't know what a U.S. passport costs but I can understand a prospective visitor wondering if it's worth the trouble.

ia786
Insha,allah April 06, 2005
UK: Government drops religious hate law as election looms, following intense free speech campaign

BillR
Feel free to speach your mind

ia786:

If inciting hatred against identifiable groups was truly a crime in Britain, there would probably be a significant number of imams and publishers of Arab language newspapers facing charges.

Instead, we hear of Red Ken Livingstone rolling the red carpet out for the hypocritical and sleezy Sheik Al-Qwadhari (or however his name is spelled)who urges his followers to give their children up for shahada while sending his own to universities in the UK and US. Livingstone further rushed to his defence when MEMRI translated some of his broadcasts on Al-Jazeerah, attacking MEMRI for having the audacity to expose him.

Ia,

What does the rise of the Nazi party have to do with Bill's post about religiopolitical loyalty? Let's not forget history and the rise of Stalinism.

The Quran itself expresses religious intolerance. And while the 'vast majority' of muslims in the West expressed support for the US after 9/11, the vast majority in the Middle East didn't. In fact, most celebrated the attacks.

I hope you realize that Bill's expressing his right to a viewpoint, as you are (although his is more cogently expressed), and that he wouldn't be charged since the law you refer to is effectively defunct.

Geoff