2 Men, in New York and Florida, Charged in Qaeda Conspiracy

"I have written on numerous occasions that there is no distinction in the American Muslim community between peaceful Muslims and jihadists."

What do you suggest, how can distinctions be made?

My dear "ia786":

That's simple. Let American Muslims renounce all attachment to violent jihad and Sharia, refuse all aid from Sharia states (chiefly Saudi Arabia), and cooperate fully with anti-terror efforts aimed at rooting jihadists out of American mosques.

Cordially
Robert Spencer

The distinction could be that the 'moderates' would be those who are actively protesting against the homicidal jihadists in their midst who are fomenting terrorism, treason and treachery.

If a white supremacist came into any average Christian church and tried to coax the regular believers into joining a 'cell' for killing people, the normal Christian would simply call the cops.

I don't hear the normal Muslim doing any such thing.

The general reaction of the 'moderates' is to shut up, knowing that the mafia-esque tactic of 'be quiet or we'll bump you off' has worked wonders throughout the Islamic community.

People in the 'infidel' world would be heartened to see the 'moderate' Muslims grow a spine and take the reins of their religion back from the psychopathic extremists using selected Koranic quotes (SURA 9:5, et al) to reinforce their calls to murder, mayhem and madness.

As some true moderates among the Muslim community have noted, the only way forward is through a Reformation, using the already-accepted concept in the Islamic critical-intellectual realm of ijtihad- whereby the Koran can be interpreted more compassionately and progressively.

It may be the only hope forward for Islam.

ia786 did you go to the Anti Terror march?
No,why not?
You keep bleating on about what a moderate you are so why didn't you go?
Check out the truth of the death cult on
www.islamundressed.com and learn how you re cult truly is EVIL.
I am an atheist and while there is no proof of a god(any) no one can lie to me about it.
I was brought up in a Catholic school where I saw the truth behind religion.
Nothing but lies,thats all religion is.
Its all about subjugation and money.
Also I suggest the West deport all of you back to the Arabian Peninsular where you can all kill each other and leave us alone in peace.
Being a muslim ia786 why arent you living in an islamic country enjoying the freedom?
You muslim trolls are all the same,lying cowards.

She said that the doctor stood out from other neighbors by his Muslim dress and that the doctor and his family lived quietly in the community. "Other than that, we didn't talk to him, and they didn't talk to us," she said.

Sounds like a DLR to me. Other examples of DLR:

A guy with a coffee filter on his head wearing a winter coat in mid-summer walking through a crowded subway station.

A guy wearing a white thobe that only goes down to his shins, unkempt beard, coffee filter under a dish towel and loose fanbelt on his head, and carrying a long stick in Times Square.

Someone named Muhammed who is dressed like Muhammed Atta checking-in for his flight on a one-way ticket paid for with cash.

DLR="Doesn't Look Right".

Did anyone happen to catch C-Span this weekend?

Saudi Princess bin Talal told an Arab-American anti-discrimination audience, which included many non-Muslim Dhimmis that he would spare no fortune to foward the Arab cause in America.

What a charming little desert man he is.

ia786, it isn't up to us to decide who is and who is not a "good Muslim", this is your mess, so you clean it up. We allow Muslims to live here, so they ought to respect the laws of their hosts, not continue to be arrogant, hyper-sensitive jackasses.

Why would it be our responsibility to coddle the countless infantile Muslims living in America or in Europe. You're the largest bunch of whiners in the world. Offended by everything.

It's far past time for all of you peaceful Allah-ites to stop playing games with the West, and stop insulting everyone's intelligence. The Islamic arrogance will eventually result in their demise. Learn that Islam is nothing special, although it is the most bigoted belief system in existence.

I hope Americans will soon realize that as long as Muslims are not monitored closely, our nation will always be in great danger of suffering more terrorist attacks.

Regarding how to make distinctions between jihadists and moderate Muslims, here's an idea: simply challenge moderates to implement their sharia on jihadists (similar to having Native American tribes try their own according to their own tribal laws). After all, Muslims claim sharia to be Allah's perfect, divine law for all of mankind for all time. I say, let Muslims demonstrate to the non-Muslim public how this sharia works with extremists who commit or threaten to commit murder of innocents in the name of Islam. Basically, let the moderates sell us on the viability of sharia.

To test this, temporarily "extradite" already-convicted jihadists over to the custody of a "moderate sharia" court. If the moderates try, convict, and sentence those jihadists according to their sharia laws, we can safely accept that moderates are serious about excising the jihadi cancer from their midst and living up to their "Islam is peace" slogan. But if the moderates acquit said jihadists, then we can pretty much accept that the opposite is true, hence no distinctions.

Please put a link to Islam Undressed on the Jihad Watch web page. One of the earlier posts mentioned it. I have not yet looked at Islam Undressed, but I am sure it has a lot of valuable information. The web site again is http://www.islamundressed.com.

I hope other viewers of Jihad Watch like this new link as well.

2 American muslims engaged in treason?

Oh, the shame, the horror..../NOT!

Expect t-shirts earing the smiling visages of these toads to circulate around Arab street...

'My dear "ia786":

That's simple. Let American Muslims renounce all attachment to violent jihad and Sharia, refuse all aid from Sharia states (chiefly Saudi Arabia), and cooperate fully with anti-terror efforts aimed at rooting jihadists out of American mosques.

Cordially
Robert Spencer'

Firstly I have to say I had the wrong image of you in my head, its seems as though the right-wing fanatics that have hijacked this site seem to have clouded my judgement. I agree with you on a lot of things.

However I just wanted to know what do you define as violent Jihad, Terrorism??? So what about the hot spots across the World, in many places there are Muslims that are oppressed, can't these Muslims defend themselves, of course without terrorist attacks? Just say the terrorist attacks were to stop, would these Muslims have no choice but have to live as oppressed people. What about Chechnya, these people have a legitimate cause however it has been hijacked by Wahabi fundamentalists, what if this threat is extinguished, would the Chechen people finally be guaranteed an independent state. Lets not forget that Aslan Maskhadov, a democratically elected leader who opposed the Wahabis but was isolated by both sides (Russians and the West), he was given no voice. What about the people of Kashmir? if the fundamentalist threat is removed would India finally have a referendum so the Kashmiris can decide their own fate.

Don’t get me wrong, I have never supported terrorist attacks. Terrorism is forbidden in Islam, innocents are never to be harmed.

There are legitimate causes in these Muslim hotspots, what would the Muslims be left with, the oppressive Russian and Indian forces are not giving them much.

'refuse all aid from Sharia states (chiefly Saudi Arabia)'

Do you mean aid or propaganda. The Saudis are renowned with throwing their Wahabist propaganda left, right and centre. Of course us moderates can't stand that but aid is different, aid could be anything. What would the solution be to this problem? Again distinctions would need to be made.

'and cooperate fully with anti-terror efforts aimed at rooting jihadists out of American mosques'

I agree with you on this one. People that are a threat should be locked up or deported. However not all the Muslims should be attacked, there are many more moderates, the extremists are very small in number. Here in the UK I think we have made some progress against Extremist organisations. Before 9/11 no one really cared about them although we made complaints, no action was taken. They would wait outside Mosques and hand out Wahabist propaganda. Only now people finally woken up, including the Muslims.

I think Muslims need to be encouraged to get involved with groups that aim to isolate the fanatics. In the UK we have Muslim organisations that work closely with the Government, this has helped many Muslims. It has made things a lot clear.

By the way, our elders have always warned us to stay away from extremist groups.

Regards

ia786

Its the CHICKENS who are to blame!

What is wrong with these people?

The other day, after a suicide bomb blast at a muhammadan shrine, people shouted "down with America."

And now we have people burning up the KFC after another suicide attack.

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=2ER2FMPERNVHUCRBAE0CFFA?type=topNews&storyID=8642711

At least four killed in Karachi mosque attack
Mon May 30, 2005 11:44 AM ET

KARACHI (Reuters) - Three assailants and a policeman were killed on Monday in a suicide bomb attack at a mosque in the southern Pakistani city of Karachi, a provincial official said.

The attack occurred inside the minority Shi'ite Muslim Mandinatul Ilm mosque in the middle-class Gulshan-e-Iqbal area of the port city.

"Four people have been killed, three of them were assailants and one was a policeman," Salahuddin Haider, adviser to the provincial minister for information, told Reuters.

"One of them was a suicide bomber who blew himself up. The police reacted after hearing the blast and fired after hearing the blast. As a result two armed people standing outside the mosque were also killed."

Rizwan Edhi of the Edhi Welfare Trust emergency service said groups of people angered by the blast had set fire to a KFC fast food restaurant nearby.

"We are trying to pull out the injured from the mosque as well as those trapped in the KFC," he told Reuters.

A suicide bombing at a Muslim festival in the capital Islamabad a few days ago killed at least 19 people and wounded dozens, mostly Shi'ite Muslims.

/News

What is the real Wahhabi Myth?

It is the claim that the Saudi Whhabis are to blame for all that is wrong with muhammadanism.

What is a sufi myth?

It is the claim that sufis are "peaceful," unlike the rest.

Don't fall for any of them.

Matial arts training for muslims...is that a joke? To get proficient at martial arts requires unending dedicaion, daily training, not for weeks but a lifetime. Real martial arts is a lifestyle. Otherwise, you know just enough to get you into trouble, but not enough to get you out of it. I doubt that most jihadists are proficient, a crash course in hand to hand fighting is not good enough. Besides, expertise in martial arts, wont stop a bullet...

IA786-
We can easily distinguish between moderates and islamists in the US.

What organizations and individuals supported the Free Muslims Against Terror March? What organizations and individuals have joined their group?

Let's see, about 50 individuals were at the march, and none of the major US based organizations, such as CAIR.

We have our answer. Most Muslims in the US are not loyal citizens.

I heard that martial artist "Mr. Tarik" of the Bronx also stated that he was proud of his ability "to be able to strangle someone with his 'prayer' beads."

These nutjobs are getting into the Monty Python realm now.

(Wasn't there a scene in one of their films where nominal 'Christians' were beating one another with crosses to support the words of the "Prince of Peace'?)

duh_swami-

Martial arts, properly learned, first teaches modesty, respect for the teacher's philosophy (usually a form of Buddhistic self-defense only), respect for your opponent, and a graceful humility. You do not go looking for a fight, but have a quiet confidence in case one finds you.

This jihadist loon sounds more like someone who has watched some chop suey movies, video games, tricked an unsuspecting instructor into teaching him the basics, and now he will hopefully spend the rest of his life in prison karate chopping at the flies hovering around his bolted-down metal toilet.

Hai!

Treehugger,

Check out this article entitled, "Islam, Revenge of the Sith, and 'Order 66'" by Barbara Stock:

http://www.chronwatch.com/content/contentDisplay.asp?aid=14802

ia786:

So what about the hot spots across the World, in many places there are Muslims that are oppressed, can't these Muslims defend themselves, of course without terrorist attacks? Just say the terrorist attacks were to stop, would these Muslims have no choice but have to live as oppressed people.

ia, you have to remember that back in the '90's the U.S. government was completely sympathetic to this position. That is why Clinton twice went against the inclinations of his European allies, the objections of Republican neo-isolationists, and the protests of lunatic-left activists like Michael Moore and Noam Chomsky to intervene in the Balkans and save the Balkan Muslims.

And yet how much gratitude from the Muslim world did the U.S. reap because of that? And how long before the Bosnians and the Kosovars write the U.S. armed forces completely out of their histories and say it was the brave mujahhedin from Saudi Arabia and Iran who helped stop the Serbs?

What about Chechnya, these people have a legitimate cause however it has been hijacked by Wahabi fundamentalists, what if this threat is extinguished, would the Chechen people finally be guaranteed an independent state. Lets not forget that Aslan Maskhadov, a democratically elected leader who opposed the Wahabis but was isolated by both sides (Russians and the West), he was given no voice. What about the people of Kashmir? if the fundamentalist threat is removed would India finally have a referendum so the Kashmiris can decide their own fate.

One problem is that the there is always the threat of fundamentalism. Even in supposedly secular, tolerant Bosnia, you had to deal with closet fundamentalist Alija Izetbegovic:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alija_Izetbegovic#Izetbegovi.26.23263.3B_as_dissident_and_Muslim_activist

Ultimately, though there can be no sympathy between Muslims and non-Muslims until the former give up their dreams of world domination. Why should the U.S. or any Western nation help an oppressed Muslim people if the latter are guarantted to show no gratitude to them, and will always side with their "Muslim brothers"? And why shouldn't Muslims be able to live as minorities within tolerant, democratic societies instead of always attempting secession when demographics preclude them from dominating the state? This inability to live peacefully like other minorities, or to have a normal foreign policy not based upon religious alignment smacks too much of the old mentality of the ummah destined for global conquest.

Don’t get me wrong, I have never supported terrorist attacks. Terrorism is forbidden in Islam, innocents are never to be harmed.

Robert might disagree with you on that one. Many of the things that muhamMAD did were acts of terrorism.

Robert might say that you have to first say that there are violent aspects in Islam and acknowledge it first. This kind of denial won't do. Then Robert might say that you have to refute and abandon those aspects and develope a new theology that is without jihad violence or any violence against women or kuffar (dhimmitude) and so on.

But I don't believe that that can be done. Because to do that you would have to repudate the Koran and ahadith. That would make you a kafir. A heretic. That is not true Islam. That is why I am against any reform. The only way is to tell muhammdans the truth about thir beliefs and encourage them to leave muhammadanism.

There are legitimate causes in these Muslim hotspots, what would the Muslims be left with, the oppressive Russian and Indian forces are not giving them much.

muhammadans being "oppressed" is a debatable point. Kashmaris and the Chechens can't expect to live a normal life under the circumstances cause by the extremists among them.

Russia is a sovereign country and has the right to preserve its territorial intergrity. Russia is just trying to stop itself from disintergrating. I do not necessarily agree with all the methods that Russians are using.

While that Maskhadov was president and Chechnya had a brief period of freedom after their first rebellion guess what happened. Chechenya became an islamic state and it was a place of slavery, murders, kidnappings and all sorts of lawlessness.

Many Russinas were kidnapped and behaded by the Chechens.

And while they were free, they launched many terrorist raids on Russia. I think they even took over a hospital and blew it up I think. It was a terrorist haven.

So that was why Russian forces went back in again and we have what we have now.

As I understand it, legally, Kashmir actually belongs to India becuase its muhammadan ruler decided to go with India and not Pakistan during independence. That was the deal. It was Pakistan that infact invaded Kashmir after that decision.

As for muhammadans being oppressed, most, if not all of it is pure fantasy. It is a common delusion among the muhammadans.

I wil give you two examples of the difference between muhammadans and Christians.

In southern Sudan the Christians and animists were oppressed and wanted freedom so they fought for thei rights. Around 2 million people from the south died. Many were enslaved and raped and became refugees and so on. Even chemical weapons were used against the southerners.

But we never saw any terrorism from the southerners. There were no Christian terrorists killing muhammadans for it.

And in East Timor, the Christian Timorese were oppressed by the Indonesian occupiers for around 30 years and around 200,000 were killed.

I never heard of any Timorese suicide bomber blowing himself up in central Jakarta.

See the difference. The Christians never resorted to terrorism although they were cruelly oppressed and millions were massacred.

But with muhammadans, they will use any excuse to kill. Take the Quack'ran (quran) flusing in the toilet for example.

And as for your claim that the radicals are in the minority, it may be so but the radicals make up a sizeable minority.

http://www.rzimindia.org/html/Apologia/007.html

" According to BBC (Gallup) and Q-News polls, taken in 2001, immediately following the 9/11 incident, radical Muslims made up roughly 15% of the Islamic community within the United Kingdom. By 2002, however, the radicals had gained up to 25% of the U.K. Muslim population1. Following the recent Iraqi war, and the atrocities uncovered in the Abu Ghraib prison, that figure has probably moved even higher; and this, in a strong Western environment, situated outside the traditional world of Islam."

" If one were to look to traditional Islamic societies where people are fed anti-Western views regularly, with little recourse to alternative opinions, the statistics are even more disturbing. According to a recent poll of four mainly Muslim nations, taken in March 18 of 2004, by the Pew Global Attitudes Project of the Pew Research Center, around 31% of Turks now support the radical movement of Osama bin Laden, while in Morocco it is 45%, and in Jordan it is 55%. Of particular concern, according to this poll, support for Osama bin Laden in Pakistan, one of Islam’s largest countries, has risen to 65% of the population, or roughly 80 million people, and this in a country which now possesses atomic weapons!2"

1 Peter G. Riddell and Peter Cotterell, Islam In Cnflict (Leicester, England: IVP, 2003), chapters 10-12, and page 193. Also a lecture by Riddell on the theme, “Muslim Views on the World” held at the London Institute for Contemporary Christianity and sponsored by the London Lectures Trust, October 23, 2003

2 “US Image Worsens in Europe Poll,” news release credited to AFP (Agence Francaise de Presse)-Washington, The Korea Times (Seoul: March 18, 2004),6

It maybe that only a few people actually are out there killing and terrorising but there might be a lot more who quitely supports them.

Do not let these Islamic fanatics prey on non-suspecting American girls..

Shah's mother's name is Marlene Jenkins.
Sabir's former wife's name is Ingrid Doyle with whom he has a daughter.
Sabir's current wife is Arleen Morgan, a registered nurse, and they have two young sons.

ia786, you contribute nothing except to try and obfuscate the points being made.

To add my two cents worth... I used to work with somebody from North India, a region that has borne the brunt of brutal Islamic invasions through history. His succinct comment after 9/11 to me was: "Muslims are nice and docile for the most part in a region as long as they are in the minority. The moment they realize they are in the majority, they will want to secede or drive out any kaffir from that region". A lesson we should all heed.

And as regards to the West helping Muslims, nobody seems to argue the counterpoint when critics say "America created Bin Laden", that why wasn't OBL and his ilk grateful for American help in driving the Soviets from Afghanistan ? There is NO honor in their culture with respect to kaffirs. Help is repaid with 9/11s

In retrospect, we should have let the Soviets/Russians obliterate them.

And the UK government is playing Nero's tune as their country is slowly and surely made into a nation of cells.

Big sleep comments

"Martial arts, properly learned, first teaches modesty, respect for the teacher's philosophy (usually a form of Buddhistic self-defense only), respect for your opponent, and a graceful humility. You do not go looking for a fight, but have a quiet confidence in case one finds you".

Absolutely right...

Years ago I was seceratary treasurer of a Kajukenbo martial arts school. I signed people up. There were lots of wanna be tough guys who just wanted to get "bad", to cause someone, somewhere, some trouble. As soon as they found out there was a philosophy to follow and that learning the art took hard work, they opted out for the easier gun or knife.
One of the instructors was a mean (on mat) 5th degree black belt Korean, who would tell new guys and old alike. "If I catch anyone of you guys using what I teach you to intimidate or brutaize people, you will answer directly to me".
He was not joking...

ia786;

"Don’t get me wrong, I have never supported terrorist attacks. Terrorism is forbidden in Islam, innocents are never to be harmed."

The problem lies ia, in what Islam would class as innocent. It seems that only the devout Wahabist/Salafi types would qualify for that title.

'Unbelievers' certainly aren't innocent.

In Muhammads book, even believers who don't get up for prayer are classed as non-innocent:-

Bukhari Volume 1, Book 11, Number 626:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
"The Prophet said, "No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr and the 'Isha' prayers and if they knew the reward for these prayers at their respective times, they would certainly present themselves (in the mosques) even if they had to c awl." The Prophet added, "Certainly I decided to order the Mu'adh-dhin (call-maker) to pronounce Iqama and order a man to lead the prayer and then take a fire flame to burn all those who had not left their houses so far for the prayer along with their houses."

Sorry, what is one of Muhammads titles? "Mercy to mankind?"

Open your eyes ia.

ia786
You say “What about the people of Kashmir? If the fundamentalist threat is removed would India finally have a referendum so the Kashmiris can decide their own fate”.

Get this right. Since the God created this earth Kashmir has been under the Hindu majority far longer than it has been under the Muslims. Are you suggesting that some parts of the UK and Europe which will have Muslim majority in future have a referendum? Kashmir was always Hindu majority until most of them were driven out and outbred.

After three wars started by Pakistan it has failed to loosen India’s grip on Kashmir. India has no policy of eliminating the Kashmiris. Those who get killed are mainly Pakistani trained and sponsored jihadists killed in encounters with the Indian army. Jihad and exporting terrorists are part of Pakistan’s foreign policy. Azad (Independent) Kashmir is that part of Indian Kashmir which Pakistan forcibly occupied soon after India’s creation. The inhabitants are not independent. Azad Kashmir leaders are appointed by Pakistan. The currency and passports of Azad Kashmir is Pakistani. The subjugated inhabitants have a long standing freedom struggle so what about a referendum so that they can decide their own fate? And how about referendum for the Northern states, the repressed Shias and Mohajirs?

Kashmir has India’s ancestral religious places (like you have in Saudi Arabia)such as the Amaranth shrine, which the Hindus consider the source of the Ganges so quite rightly India is insisting that the question of redrawing the boundary is out of question.

Informed Christian, just a historical correction on your statement: “As I understand it, legally, Kashmir actually belongs to India because its muhammadan ruler decided to go with India and not Pakistan during independence. That was the deal. It was Pakistan that in fact invaded Kashmir after that decision”.

The ruler was in fact a Hindu called Raja Hari Singh.

"Oppressed'- is the pretext for terror.

1a, 'Saladin', 'Lier of Arabia' or whatever he calls himself over at FFI:

"Oppressed Muslims" exist only in the propaganda of the followers of Jihad. Mohammedans use the word 'oppression' to dominate, to wipe out Hindus and Christians -and they think that is their divine calling-

The infiltration of Europe speaks for itself. The 'oppressed' are already starting to move on us.

"(Wasn't there a scene in one of their films where nominal 'Christians' were beating one another with crosses to support the words of the "Prince of Peace'?)"

The difference here is Christians laugh at things like Monty Python, we don't go stark raving mad and burn KFC down. We have a sense of humor and can take ribbing. I think one of the funniest bits on Monty Python's Flying Circus was when the monks were chanting and beating their own heads with the Bible.

Au contrare Carolyn;

"Blessed be the cheese makers" has to be the funniest.

Regards;
Kc

Carolyn2 posted:The difference here is Christians laugh at things like Monty Python, we don't go stark raving mad and burn KFC down.

And just look at this Carolyn.

At least five people have died after a suicide bombing at a mosque in the southern Pakistani city of Karachi. Anger at the attack spilled over with demontrators burning local buildings, including a KFC fastfood restaurant.

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13361103,00.html

The article also adds that

Pakistan has been troubled by religious violence since it joined the US-led war on terrorism after the September 11 attacks in 2001.

Completely false. Pakistan has always had murderous violence between muslim groups. They unite though when attacking the pitifully oppressed Christian community.

Ignorance or something else, it is hard to say. But yet again, an attempt to blame all the world's troubles on the US.

Londoner posted:The inhabitants are not independent. Azad Kashmir leaders are appointed by Pakistan.

I read sometime ago (correct me if I err), that Pakistan settled many from its NorthWest provinces to the region of Kashmir that it now occupies. In other words, deliberately changed the demographic nature of Kashmir. In contrast, India has made sure that Hindus are not allowed to settle in Kashmir even though the Jihadis have driven out the native Kashmiri Hindus from Kashmir.

duh_swami-

I took combat judo with a girlfriend because I thought she should learn how to defend herself, and was the 'fall guy' for most of her throws. ("How to Fall", without breaking anything, is the first half of the physical 'philosophy'.) I'd already been interested in the dhyana/ch'an/zen roots behind the art, and the movements and methods of the teacing (by a very quiet, but sublimely tough Mr. Harada) melded easily in my mind.

The 'empty hand' requires a matching sensibility.

If you go in with preconceptions, revenge fantasies, simmering anger, etc., you incarnate the old teaching tale of the master who was visited by an opinionated possible student, and when they sat down and talked for a while, the master then offered the guest a cup of tea. The master poured and poured and poured until the cup overflowed. The guest yelped and leaped up, saying: "Stop! The cup is over-full!" And the master stopped, looked at the visitor, and said: "As are you. How can you expect to learn anything if you are already filled up with ideas?"

Islam seems to be overfull of itself, as well.

No room for basic humanity to squeak in between all of those pompously vilifying suras.

emperor posted:And how long before the Bosnians and the Kosovars write the U.S. armed forces completely out of their histories and say it was the brave mujahhedin from Saudi Arabia and Iran who helped stop the Serbs?

Not long. Several Jihadist cells have been found to be operating in Bosnia and Kosovo.

Besides, the Bosnians and Kosovans are justified in giving credit to Saudi Arabia, as it was pressure from SA that the US administration caved in to.

Christian:

re: Islam undressed

I have posted on LGF and Fjordmans blog (for Scandinavians who are in dire need of education on islam).

As for monitoring muslims - this problem is growing exponentially due to immigration and the huge birth rate of muslims. I do not think it is realistically feasible to monitor this increasing jihad activity.

IA786
Don’t get me wrong, I have never supported terrorist attacks. Terrorism is forbidden in Islam, innocents are never to be harmed.

You must be a moron to think anyone here believes that. Muhammadanism is a terrorist religion par excellance and Muhammad was the fist Muslim terrorist. The Koran promotes terrorism as a quick way to win wars and subjugate enemies. To terrorize enemies into surrendering.

densisw:

Ant most importantly, to get booty, and young women as sex slaves.

BigSleep, much as I think the solution to the jihad problem is the conversion of Muslims to Christianity, I still recognize that "ordinary Muslims" did indeed call the cops on some of their violent coreligionists (the Lackawanna Six, for instance).

Interview with Paul Sperry,the author of "Infiltration",very interesting and informative at
http://www.frontpagemagazine.com
Read the article and also go to the author`s website to see pictures of the "Wahabi corridor" in Virginia ,safe houses that the 9/11 hijackers used,the hq of CAIR,etc.
http://www.sperryfiles.com

"The Council for American-Islamic Relations is a Muslim Brotherhood front organization.”
So says Sheikh Palazzi.

When asked whether he was afraid of the consequences of 9/11 on U.S.-Saudi relations, Crown Prince Abdullah answered by saying, “There is no risk, since we control them, but they do not control us.” I am compelled to say that with the passage of time, I become increasingly convinced that his claim is valid. Prince Abdullah and his family have invested billions in funding both al-Qa’ida and Hamas, and still they are received as honoured guests in Washington as before.
I hoped 9/11 would open the eyes of the U.S. public, but things didn’t turn out that way. The War on Terror targeted the Taliban and Saddam Hussein, but left the Saudis unpunished; Saudi Arabia is not even listed among the rogue states which fund terrorism, and George W. Bush can even claim that “Saudis are our allies in the War on Terror”, i.e. in the war against those terrorists who were funded by Saudi Arabia itself from the very beginning.
e-interview with Prof Palazzi

http://www.israpundit.com/archives/2005/05/an_israpundit_e.php#more

Just a thought: Bulldoze the mosques. Deport the muslims. They are becoming tedious.

Just a thought: Bulldoze the mosques. Deport the muslims. They are becoming tedious.

What do you expect - saudi, iraq, american, whatever pagan moslems are all utterly insane. Pagan moslems have given the world a BIG FAT NOTHING. No music, no novels, no top class universities, no top quality hospitals, no world class scientists - NOTHING!! They do not help even fellow moslems - re the tsnami tragedy - as do the Christian charities. All they do WELL? is barbarism, murder, raping and killing. So as well as being bloodthirsty pagans they are total parasites. numbat

Just a thought: Bulldoze the mosques. Deport the muslims. They are becoming tedious.

Other than that, we didn't talk to him, and they didn't talk to us

Well of course he didn't.

He's an Islamosupremacist, and you're a filthy kufr.

Other than that, we didn't talk to him, and they didn't talk to us

Well of course he didn't.

He's an Islamosupremacist, and you're a filthy kufr.

duh_swami, This is great!

"One of the instructors was a mean (on mat) 5th degree black belt Korean, who would tell new guys and old alike. "If I catch anyone of you guys using what I teach you to intimidate or brutaize people, you will answer directly to me".
He was not joking..."

sococm:

"There is NO honor in their culture with respect to kaffirs. Help is repaid with 9/11s"

Islam is impervious to charity. An infidel is an infidel no matter how much good is done for them. Give them $50 million, they'll use it to kill us. Go into their country to help them, they'll kidnap and cut off the workers' heads.

Bloody
Bastards.

In submitting to Islam, these muslims gave up their sense of human decency... and common sense. From that point on they will do as commanded by their death cult, no matter how inhumane or nonsensical.

Havoc, I'll say it for you:

Bulldoze the mosques. Deport the muslims. They are becoming tedious.

Ia786, Assama-laikum

I have read some of your comments and to mind they are so far from the truth, either you are practising takkia, are naïve, a lair, plain stupid, in denial or most likely a combination of the lot. You just don’t want to see what is wrong with Islam today and therefore it is moderates like you who prevent it from reforming (which it desperately needs).

As an example, you say “What about Chechnya, these people have a legitimate cause however it has been hijacked by Wahabi fundamentalists, what if this threat is extinguished.”

Well I say to you (as a muslim) that you can apply this type of thinking to the MMA sunni of Pakistan. Stopping women from running in a marathon, identifying religion in passports (my friend got her arm twisted & slapped for putting down Ahmaddiya muslim, not wanting to change the blasphemy laws.

Slowly but surely Pakistan is moving to a more hard nosed muslim society where they want to practice sharia in it’s purest form… “the perfect society” they may even have designs to take the mantle away from the Suud.

Give them a few more years , let them increase their share of the vote from 2% to 20% and the MMA sunni will want to exercise their “purity”. The funny thing about this exercise is that soon people like me will say “Pakistan has been hijacked by Wahabi fundamentalists” only swap out Wahabi for Sunni.

Ia786 also says “Terrorism is forbidden in Islam, innocents are never to be harmed”.

I had to stop myself from dying in fits of laughter, surprise, gasping of breath and rage. You can deny this all you like but it will hold you back. The truth will always remain the truth….untainted and pure.

Yes, Terrorism MAYBE forbidden in Islam but the point is purely academic….

Instead the point is “who listens?” “innocents are never to be harmed” you say

Well never mind the infidels ….. tell that to the family of the 600 or so Iraqi muslims who got killed last month alone in Iraq.

Here is a question for Ia “when can you genuinely trust a muslim?”.

As a muslim myself it is a question that I am finding very hard to answer. The only muslims I really trust are my immediate family and my very closest friends.

Now talking like this…you and other moderate muslims will call me a traitor….an unbeliever ….BUT I believe that Allah Tala (swt) has shown me the light…the way forward

….. Ia open your eyes….look at what they see, not what you want them to see.

ia786: I don't doubt that you are sincerely bothered by a lot that is being said and done in the name of your religion.

Naseem: Your post to Ia786 made me guess that probably boh of you are going through a pretty rough time internally. I've had a few crises of faith myself, and saw things I was raised to believe exposed as quite evil in their roots.

But, please consider: there are alternatives out there. The Scriptures of the Old and New Testament are available in hundreds of languages, and my guess is, judging from your excellent English proficiency, that not even the King James Version would be too difficult for you. The Gospel of John (fourth book of the New Testament) is a good place to start. But, in case you are more comfortable in some other language, I'm sure the Bible's available in it.

BTW, no Muslim apologist yet has satisfactorily explained to me why the different Christian sects wrangle over essentially the same Greek text of the New Testament (like the Sunni, Shi'ah, Ibadi, Druze, Bahai, and Ahmadiyya arguing over the Qur'an?)and the Christians and Jews wrangle over essentially the same Old Testament--that is, if we have truly changed and corrupted the Scriptures.

Could it be that Muhammad and the compilers of the hadith were mistaken?

kcEngland and Carolyn2:

Personally, I like, "Oh Lord, bless this thy holy hand grenade, that it might blow thine enemy to tiny bits . . ."

Thanks for the correction here at http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/006437.php#c95702 "Londoner."

Kashmir aside, I am not sure whether the British should have partitoned the subcontinet alond religious lines during independence anyway. Maybe Pakistan and Bangaldesh should be reincorporated back into India.

KFH: Kentucky Fried HUMANS

6 Humans Fried (BBQed) at KFC

Karachi bombing Update

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/ISL48883.htm

Police see al Qaeda link in Karachi mosque bombing
31 May 2005 10:18:36 GMT

Source: Reuters

By Faisal Aziz

KARACHI, May 31 (Reuters) - Eleven people were killed in a night of violence in Karachi when a suicide attack on a mosque blamed on a group linked to al Qaeda spiralled into a riot that burned to death six at American fast-food outlet KFC.

Angry Shi'ites set fire to the restaurant in revenge after five people were killed and 18 wounded in the Monday night suicide bomb blast at a mosque in Karachi's middle-class Gulshan-e-Iqbal district, police said on Tuesday.

The KFC outlet was torched just minutes after the blast at the mosque. Angry Shi'ite youths also attacked a hospital, two petrol stations and burned more than a dozen vehicles.

Intelligence agents said they suspect Lashkar-e-Jhangvi, a banned Sunni Muslim militant group with ties to Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network, as the perpetrators of the mosque attack.

"The pattern of this attack has many similarities with attacks they have carried out in the recent past," said the district's police chief, Asif Ajaz Sheikh said. "We are working on several other leads too."

Lashkar-e-Jhangvi is one of Pakistan's most feared underground militant groups. Its members have been implicated in attacks on Western targets in Karachi, including the kidnap and murder of U.S. reporter Daniel Pearl in 2002.

The group has also been blamed for two assassination attempts on President Pervez Musharraf and carried out dozens of deadly attacks on Pakistan's minority Shi'ite community.

The majority of Pakistan's 150 million people are Sunni and about 15 percent are Shi'ites. More than 100 people have been killed in tit-for-tat attacks between Sunni and Shi'ite Muslims in the past year alone.

Two assailants, including a suicide bomber, a policeman and two worshippers died in the mosque attack and at least 18 people were wounded, four seriously, police said.

One of the attackers who survived -- a man who identified himself as Muhammad Jameel of Karachi's low-income Orangi Town neighbourhood -- was being questioned by police.

SECTARIAN RIVALRY

The attacks are the latest violence to hit one of Washington's main allies in its war on terrorism.

They came three days after a suicide bombing at a Muslim festival in Islamabad on Friday that killed 19 people, mostly Shi'ite Muslims, the worst-ever attack in the capital.

Authorities have not identified any suspects in the Islamabad attack but analysts say Sunni militants have revived sectarian rivalry with Shi'ites to destabilise Musharraf's government.

Hours before the mosque attack, unknown assailants killed a provincial leader from the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal Islamic opposition alliance in Karachi.

Aslam Mujahid, deputy chief of Jamaat-e-Islami in the city, was kidnapped early on Monday and his bullet-riddled body was later found in an abandoned car east of the city.

Mairaj-ul-Huda, head of Jamaat-e-Islami's Karachi wing, said the party suspected the Muttahida Qaumi Movement, a rival regional party that is a member of the governing national coalition, of being behind the killing.

Shi'ite mobs often target symbols of U.S. influence after sectarian attacks as they accuse the government of failing to act to prevent religious violence.

(Additional reporting by Aamir Ashraf)

From the Washington Post:
Court Papers Detail Terror Arrest Charges

On April 1, 2004, Shah was meeting with the informant when he exchanged smiles with a girl standing nearby, the complaint said. Shah allegedly turned to the informant and said: "I could be joking and smiling and then cutting their throats in the next second."

CGW, Here is the link to Monty Python's soundboard. I keep it in my favorites.

http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=7930

The Holy Grail script transcribed from the film. Although I still prefer memory.
http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~starbug/grail.htm

OK, so I paraphrased a bit. ; - )

"...and the counting of the number shall be three . . . "