From Democracy Now, with thanks to Giaour:
The Los Angeles Times has revealed that the U.S. has quietly forged a close intelligence partnership with Sudan despite the government's role in the mass killings in Darfur. We speak with Ken Silverstein, the reporter who broke the story, Salih Booker, the director of Africa Action as well as Rep. Donald Payne (D-NJ).In the days after the Sept. 11 attacks, President Bush issued an ultimatum to the world: "Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists." Three and half years later, it has been revealed that the Bush administration has allied itself with a government listed as a state sponsor of terrorism and one that the administration has accused of committing genocide against its own people - Sudan.
A major expose in the Los Angeles Times on Friday revealed that the U.S. has quietly forged a close intelligence partnership with Sudan despite the government's role in the mass killings in Darfur. The Sudanese government has since publicly confirmed it is working with the Bush administration and the CIA.Eight months ago, former Secretary of State Colin Powell accused the Sudanese of carrying out a genocide in Darfur. Already 180,000 have died in the region from fighting or hunger. But relations appear to have since changed -- for the better. One senior Sudanese official the LA Times that the country had achieved "complete normalization" of relations with the CIA.
The Times reported that the CIA sent an executive jet last week to Khartoum to ferry the chief of Sudan's intelligence agency to Washington for secret meetings sealing Khartoum's sensitive and previously veiled partnership with the administration.
The Sudanese intelligence chief - Major General Salah Abdallah Gosh - has been accused by members of Congress of directing military attacks against civilians in Darfur. He also had regular contacts with Osama bin Laden during the 1990s.
Last month, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice sent a letter to the Sudanese government calling for steps to end the conflict in Darfur. But the letter, reviewed by the Times, also said the administration hoped to establish a "fruitful relationship" with Sudan and looked forward to continued "close cooperation" on terrorism...
Do Americans ever learn their lessons?
Is your response to one form of extremism always to be support for a countering despotism?
To fight the Nazi and Japanese fascists you worked with Stalin and Chang Kai Sheck.
To fight Communism you routinely supported non-democratic regimes in Taiwan, South Korea, Iran, Guatemala, South VietNam, Chile, Egypt, IRAQ, and countless and countless other Asian, African and Hispanic states. Oh yes, I *almost* forgot your support for fundamentalist Muslims in Pakistan, Afghanistan, and your lord and masters in Saudi Arabia.
Now its back to Sudan, Pakistan, Egypt, Syria, and on and on to beat the Muslims.
Good god, get some sense in your heads. You treat India like the shudra of the democratic world and kiss the soles of Pakistan's feet. Wait till Pakistan crumbles and the Jihadis get their hands on the nuclear weapons. Let's see Aramgedon for real?
Even then the Republicans will say everything is OK and that they have the situation under control. I honestly wonder if a large number of Americans are so fundamentalist in their Christinaity that they want to hasten the end of the world? Americans have every resource available to them but squander it on consumerism or persecuting some defenceless group like homosexuals.
No one test the limits of compassion for the foolish like America.
Sad but 95% true, Kali. Don't forget Zaire. And don't forget the Bangladeshi catastrophe of '70-'71.
What an amazing day to find an article by Israel-bashing Democracy Now! cited on Jihadwatch.
Something the pro-oil, pro-Islam MSM has "forgotten" to mention lately is that the number killed in Sudan since 1990 is TWO MILLION. This is especially poignant when compared with the relatively mild 10,000 killed in Israel and environs in the same period... on both sides, including both of Arafat's failed terrorist "Intifadas."
I.e. for every Jew and "palestinian" killed, TWO THOUSAND (mostly) black, African Christians/Animists have been killed by (mostly) Caucasian Arab Muslims.
I think that historians agree that without the involvement of the USSR, we would have won the war. One day, if we ever really get serious about Islamic Terror, we won't be able to win without the help of China and India.
Funny how after Iran and Hezbollah murdered 241 Marines in Lebanon, our "leaders" traded Stinger Missiles with Iran and Hezbollah to fund wars in Central America... at the same time that we funded Saddam Hussein to fight the Iraniacs and Afghanistan to fight the Soviets. A few years later, we want Russia and the nations of Central America to help us fight Saddam and the Afghans. Meanwhile we still don't dare say "boo" to Iran. Couple this with the broad concessions we gave Pakistan all through the '80s (in order to "let us" help the Afghans, the military leaders of Pakistan had to let the religious nuts get their way with things like--oh, for instance--starting the madrassas that spawned the Taliban.) You know, the more I think about it, the more it doesn't seem that funny after all.
Pakistan made nukes with the stated purpose of nuking India, but no problem! They're helping us fight the Commies in Afghanistan. Iran was allowed to drift rudderless into a theocratic hellhole while the Shah fiddled, no problem! He's fighting Commies! Iran KILLED US Marines, but when they needed Missiles, no problem! We've got to fight the "leftists" (i.e. "union organizing peasants") in Nicaragua, but can't get funding, so let's trade with the Mullahs that killed our boys! It's the same sad story all through the fifties, sixties, seventies, and eighties.... it's called "blowback." And now "we" are helping the murdering, fascist, overlords of Sudan?
I fear that our national obsession on all things Commie, which lasted from about 1947 until 1992, has cost us dearly. I was discussing this with my (republican conservative) boss today over lunch. Just consider what that mindset cost us.
We invaded Korea to "stop the spread of communism" and lost thousands of GIs.
We invaded Vietnam to "stop the spread of communism" and lost thousands of GIs.
We had the President of Zaire killed (forget the name) and installed Mubuto Sesseseko (sp?) who was a Caligula-esque dictator, because he assured us he wouldn't let Zaire go Commie and the elected leader was talking about privatizing the courvee-labor-dependent lumber and mineral industries.
We supported the shah of Iran, and helped him oust his ELECTED opponent, because he assured us that he wouldn't let Iran go Commie.
We financed the murder of thousands and thousands of peasants in Central America, and paid for it by trading with IRAN, AFTER THEY KILLED 241 MARINES IN BEIRUT.
We invaded Grenada (conveniently taking the spotlight off Beirut) to “stop the spread of Communism.”
We are not fully utilizing oil from Venezuela, despite the near certainty that a lot of the money we spend in the Arabian Peninsula goes to support Islamic terror, because Chavez is friends with C-C-C-Castro. ("Ooooh! Scary!")
We financed what became Alqaeda and the Taliban because they were fighting the Commies.
We turned a blind eye toward the radical Islamic movement of Pakistan (even when they burned down our Embassy) because they were helping us help the Taliban fight the Commies.
We turned a blind eye toward the genocide of East Timor because Suharto was committed to keeping Communism out of (Muslim) Indonesia.
Have we ever met a commie-killer we didn’t like? Even the religiously-insane Muslims?
********************************************
On a completely different note, I know that there are a lot of history buffs here; maybe someone can help me.
I recall a discussion years ago with a friend (whom I cannot reach) about some Aztec, Mayan, or Incan prisoners/slaves taken back to Spain during the Conquest... apparently so many of them escaped that they actually banded together in the then-extant forests, built a temple, and actually captured some locals for sacrifice before the soldiers came in and busted them up. Does anyone know anything about this? I'd like a link if possible. I have tried googling but to no avail.
If anyone has a response, please email me at fanorollins@yahoo.com.
Love,
KJ
PS... Jared Diamond's "Collapse" is still hardback only and costs THIRTY DOLLARS. That's almost as much as Stephen King's last, 800-page "Dark Tower" book! (And with all due respect to Dr. Diamond, he's no Stephen King... King has something like FORTY bestsellers; is ANYONE else a Stephen King? I think not.) Forget that. I'll wait for the paperback. He has a small paperback about sex for about 14 bucks; I may get that after I finish my Hunter S. Thompson binge.
Goddam!
I think that historians agree that without the involvement of the USSR, we would NOT have won the war.
Two quick rebuttals kj since it is getting late here.
1. "Bangladeshi catastrophe of '70-'71."
Well it was East Pakistan then, so I just subsummed it under the Pakistan problem. Note India acted to keep Muslim from killing Muslim.
2. The USSR was already fighting the German Reich. There was no reason to officially ally with them since they were in a life and death struggle and could not remain neutral, like say Brazil. It is never justifiable to support a totalitarian state. I do not feel democracies should even recognise non-democracies.
Kali:
You are right. The US has sided with islamic nations in almost all wars that muslim nations have had with their non-muslim neighbours. The only exception- and only to some extent, is Israel. But even Israel has been put under the hammer, if it went just one step too far in exploiting its victories; victories that have always been achieved under great duress and sacrifice.
So this news that the US administration has had some sort of alliance with Sudan, is no great shock. Then of course we have the pictures of Pres Bush walking along, hand in hand with his buddy, some damned prince from SA.
Still, there is hope. Sites such as JW/DW, faithfreedom.org and LGF, are educating the people. Soon, it will become politically impossible for such alliances with the enemy.
kj:
Blow back is right.
I have felt completely befuddled, since and during the Bosnia war, as to why a Christian population subscribing and allied to the West, was sacrificed to islam. A Serb nation, that has fought long and hard against the most entrenched enemy of Western civilisation, was sacrificed at the behest of the Saudis - the bombing of the Serbs started immediately after Albright’s visit to Saudi Arabia.
I regard the start point of the modern jihad against the West, with the war in Bosnia and Kosovo. Our acquiescence to the demands of Saudi Arabia and the muslim world, was a spur to the re-invigoration of the modern jihad.
The US, Britain and NATO in 1999, acted in very similar fashion to The Great Powers in 1938, when in Munich, they sacrificed Sudetanland to the Nazis. If we defeat the Jihad against us, future historians will place the Rambouillet Conference alongside the Munich Pact, as one of the great acts of shameful appeasement of modern times. There was a direct line from Munich to WWII, and so I believe there is a direct line from Rambouillet to 9/11. Appeasement never pays - the tragedy is that this lesson has to be learnt every generation.
Kali:
Concerning supporting the USSR in WW II - the western democracies had no choice but to support Stalin - the support was in material goods and armaments. The USSR bore the brunt of fighting in the European theatre to a far greater extent than did the U.S., Britain, etc. The invasion of Normandy would have been imposible had not the USSR tied down a very large part of the German army on the Eastern Front. The Russians also handed the Germans their worst defeats (e.g. Stalingrad, Kursk). As nasty as the Western Front, North Africa or the Pacific Theatre were, they were nothing compared to what the Russians endured. BTW, last night the History Channel ran some WW II documentaries - the Russians had something like 300,000 casualties in the battle for Berlin alone.
With respect to the story here - Sudan and the U.S., quite frankly, I'm speechless.
Once again, the State Department.
They do everything that is anti-American and would shock the heck out of us on a regular basis.
When the CIA is on foreign soil, at least there actions are pretty much in line with American interest.
But the State Department....wow.
Remember this is the department that:
1. Flew the bin laden family out of the country after 9/11.
2. Has been paying to create mosques and madrassa's in muslim countrys.
3. Has protected the Saudi family.
4. Has suppressed every investigation that starts to reveal the amount of western women and childen that have been kidnapped and taken into Saudi Arabia into sex slavery/or reproduction slavery.
Pretty much if it involves islam the state deparment will protect it.
kj,
I've heard of a Sharpe novel that relates generally to that, but I assume that doesn't help much. =)
Geoff
I have not yet been convinced of the veracity of this news .
However ,IF true , I find it duplicitous , foolish, despicable and unexcusable .
But I am locked , loaded and prepared to hunker down till the end ........no matter whose side my government is on .
The more this government dances with the Saudi dogs and now the Sudanese pigs , the more likely that scenario will come about .
re: The India -Pakistan War 0f '70-'71 , I was there in Chittagong as the West Pakistani [sunni ] military came in and literally slaughtered tens of thousands of men women and children in East Pakistan , India intervened and brought the slaughter to an end . The Chinese supported the East , the US supported the West ,[mostly because the Chinese supported the East!] soon afterwards the American Diplomatic mission [men and women]in Karachi, was literally pissed on by a mob of West Pakistanis - go figure .
When the F is this country gonna wake up and smell the sheet it's standing in ?????
..You can not trust jackals , you can not make deals with jackals .
And the CIA ? It's got a nearly PERFECT TRACK RECORD FOR MIS-IDENTIFYING THE ENEMY ....and under-estimating threats ......Class-A BUNGLERS is what they are .
Since WW2 we have had a stalwart freind in India , and we better mend and re-inforce thatrelationship ......and you dont accomplish that by selling F-16's to Pakistan ,and snuggling up to their most bitter enemy .
Besides Musharaf is never more than a heart beat from assasination ,and he don't even know which of his Generals he can trust .
Who the F are we kidding ??????
Actually, this intelligence cooperation probably comes from two things:
(1) Washington almost invariably deals with governments rather than peoples or movements in various countries. That was why, prior to the last months of the Carter administration and the ensuing Reagan/Bush I administrations, the USA accepted Communist revolutions as accomplished facts wherever they took place.
(2) The government of Sudan knows very well that while OBL was holed up in Khartoum, his people were in daily contact with Sodom/Haddam Insane's embassy there. It is probably buying a little time for itself by intelligence cooperation with Washington after 9/11.
johnb,
I recently saw a tally of all the deaths from the European theater of WW II. More than have of them (including axis powers) were Soviets...
Some of the facts regarding this story may be true, but I would take the interpretation with a grain of salt. "Democracy Now" is a show on Pacifica Radio, that notoriously radical anti-American radio station.
johnb,
I recently saw a tally of all the deaths from the European theater of WW II. More than have of them (including axis powers) were Soviets...
Some of the facts regarding this story may be true, but I would take the interpretation with a grain of salt. "Democracy Now" is a show on Pacifica Radio, that notoriously radical anti-American radio station.
Kali,
I finished reading "The Rainbow Swastika." Even though it gave me some useful leads, I agree that the author makes spurious accusations about Buddhism and Hiduism (For example, she links the Dalai Lama to fascism merely because the Nazis sent expeditions to Tibet!)
My apologies, I won't recommend that site again! However, the link between fascism and theosophy (which is not really Eastern) is often overlooked probably forms a significant part of today's unholy alliance between Islamofascism and the radical left.
Dear Kali,
You sound like someone who is green with envy and full of sour grapes. In my view America made a lot a very savvy moves in it’s glorious history and from where I see things it has worked out pretty good. Too bad people like kj have a 14 year olds, MTV view of the world, but kj is a product of the new math per se (btw, kj never knew who Hunter T. was until he died and made the news).
Kali,
Please explain to me about how the Homosexuals of America are being persecuted. I would really like to hear that one.
Also, did you not realize that the American economy is based on “consumerism”? This is what keeps people employed. Do you really not know this? You make it sound like it’s a bad thing. Are you against employment? I guess from a commie point of view having plenty of jobs and money and success is a bad thing. Feel free to explain that one too. Realize that the taxes on all this “consumerism and jobs etc” is what we send to others around the world not to mention funding free clinics etc that kj friends go to.
Finally and most ridiculously, Christian fundamentalists, bent on destroying the world. Kali, really, you have to stop buying into left wing BS. These people have little kids and families and only want a good life for them. The left make them out to be destroyers of the world, surely you are smarter than kj, aren’t you?
From what I have heard on this mess, the intelligence services of the U.S. are working with agents of the Sudanese banking and intelligence agencies to track down Bin Laden- whom the Sudan government's spies have been keeping tabs on for a decade or more, from secret financial records to safe houses, etc..
As long as the U.S. agents and our politicians destroy Osama and his network, and simultaneously work to restrain the murdering Sudanese despots, it is the standard new realpolitik which has to be accepted as 'the needs of war'- in order to prevent a nuke from ending up in D.C.
You dance with scum if it prevents armageddon.
In the past, this element of a terrorist nuke was not in the mix, so those betrayals of the impulse toward freedom -from sending Russian P.O.W.'s in West Germany back into their doom in the communist gulags after WW II (at Stalin's request) to the imbecility of allowing Saudi-financed jihadists to infiltrate Bosnia during the break-up of Yugoslavia in the 90's- were nothing but shameful pandering for power. Short-sighted, self-destructive and slimy.
As I mentioned elsewhere on JW/DW, Churchill despised Stalin, but when Hitler betrayed his Soviet 'partner' at the beginning of the Second World War and turned to attack Russia, Winston said- (during some remarks praising the valor of the people of Russia):
"If Hitler were to invade Hell, I'm sure I could find some complimentary things to say about the Devil.":
But if we do not use pressure on Sudan to cut the sh*t in Darfur -while milking them for Bin Laden data- then it is one more calamitous folly in a long and ignominious line of lunacies the U.S. intelligence services have perpetrated in the name of security.
That no one was ever axed at the CIA or FBI for the world-historical failure of 9/11 is an unanswered scandal.
It doesn't speak well for the leadership of the U.S. government since 9/11.
Disasters to come will hopefully weed out these jellyfish and ostriches and bring a stronger and more cunning and better informed type to the helm.
How can anyone be shocked about this quiet little alliance Bush has made with the Sudanese government?
Isn't this the same GWB who is pressuring Israel to make nice with the heathen who teach their children that it's noble to yearn for death while killing as many Jews as possible? Bush is pressuring Sharon to accept a "peace" plan authored by the Saudi government and in collusion with Russia and Britan!( historically all great friends of the Jewish people)
He can't be trusted. Now that he's in for the lastfour years and doesn't need to tow the conservative line of his voting base, he feels like he can be himself!
kali:
I agree that closer relations between Washington and Delhi are in order. Certainly India's multiethnic democracy is commebdable; and, in World War II, despite Gandhi's opposition, British-ruled India yielded 2,000,000 voluntary enlistments to fight the Axis, which was the largest voluntary enlistment of any belligerent in World War II. Further, the attempt to use Pakistan as a Cold War ally (especially in view of its cozy relationship with Communist China--a country that REALLY persecutes Muslims for the banal and routine aspects of their cult and ethics) was indeed a mistake; especially as it involved us in the support of the massacre of East Bengal.
But your observation re American foreign policy working with tyrannical regimes exposes an important fact about it: it is not out to remake the world or rule it, but deals with the governments and situations it finds in place. For a long time, a healthy respect for the limits of American power--especially the power to police the "conscience" of a corrupt system of politics and its ideology from outside--was a governing passion of the American policy elite. One of the big problems in the world as it is that, apart from a group of countries where the British political leagacy was strong, tyranny has been more the rule than the exception in most groupings of nations and cultures.
And, as for us fundamentalist American Christian Americans wanting to end the world, please get your facts straight: we certainly believe God will one day bring an end to the world (or, more accurately, establish a new and eternal one); yet it is not for us to do the job. God has His own timetable that we need to respect, and the Scriptures clearly state that God has reserved knowledge of when the old creation ends to himself. Even if we believe that a lot of our neighbors are going to Hell, we are commanded by God's Word to want them to turn the other way; not to hurry them on their way to eternal damnation. After all, we know ourselves to be Hell-bound sinners had not Jesus Christ given His life to pay for our sins and risen to conquer death on our behalf.
Further, don't praise Soviet "sacrifices" in World War II. Yes, their losses were appalling (China's were even worse); yet in Europe, World War II began with Hitler and Stalin kissing over the corpses of Poland and the Baltic States. Because of the Stalin-Hitler pact, we had as well the anomaly of democratic Finland as an ally of Hitler after the Soviet-German alliance collapsed in 1941 (the USSR has seized Finnish territory in 1939-40). The country that screamed loudest about everyone else's "imperialism" was the one that, after the Axis powers, most shamelessly annexed territory and looted economic plants where it oversaw Axis surrender.
Other reasons why, after June 1941, Soviet losses were so high were because Stalin had purged the Soviet officer corps and left whole armies led by unqualified people. Further, the Nazis pursued a ruthless policy against the Jews all over the western Soviet Union; and later pursued similar policies against at least the better educated in the Slavic populations.
Indeed, there was a short period of time in World War II when Britain and its Empire stood alone--against Big Whiskers as well as Toothbrush Whiskers.
Quite honestly, when it comes to World War II, British-ruled South Asia had a much more honorable record than the USSR.
Also, Kali, I don't think you've ever told us how traditional Hinduism, Jainism, and Sikhism look on homosexuality.
re Cross: well, no I don't hate jobs...but your wealthy CEO-class Americans seem to. Working in IT I have seen thousands of jobs your country can't export fast enough land here on Chennai's golden shores. By the way I think 'consummerism' as a term meaning gross materialism with consumption for consumption's sake is a well understood idea, and does not imply an opposition to economies which meet reasonable consumer demands.
As for persecuting homosexual in America (I discuss India below), I read how the Republicans unofficially campaigned in thousands of Christian churches to spread fear that maybe 5% of your population might get married (why not promote stable, loving couples?). So you place a tiny minority's fate into the hands of the people. I read a quote from the Canadian Prime Minister on this issue and he said roughly 'democracies donot make human rights a popularity contest'. Well said.
re Kepha: Traditionally Hinduism has not of course promoted homosexuality, but there were never punishments to the best of my knowledge and several of the ancient texts have homosexual incidents portrayed as regular events. I like many more world-aware Hindus have come to see homosexuals as deseving their place in society but think it best to encourage strong relationships (i.e. marriage) as opposed to promiscuity, which is dangerous for all. Moreover the female-centred devotional groups in Hinduism have been much more tolerant than some of the male-oriented ones regarding homosexuality and sex in general (women seem to be much less homophobic in my time in England and the US as well).
With the coming of British laws (the one's that persist to this day), we have an incarceration punishment for male homosexuals. Retention of this is disgraceful on a number of levels but most importantly it is not in the spirit of compassion which Buddhists, Hindus, and Jains all claim to share. I think Islam and Christianity have Abrahamised Hinduism to some extent. They pose both a challenge in terms of winning/losing converts but also in match each other's orthodoxy. Thus you get these young Hindu men who think they will protect society by violently opposing even films with homosexual themes. It breaks my heart to see this. I am the first to say Hinduism must reform in a number of ways like abandoning varna as an innate characteristic and fighting against female infanticide. Fortunately we are not weighed down by 'the literal revelation of god' like a certain desert cult and can change over time.
Well back, to work.
Hinduism may have its problems , anti-gay sentiments only one of them , however I would take the most virulent Hinduism ANYDAY over the mad dogs of islam .
As ar as dancing with scum to prevent Armageddon?
Armageddon will come when it comes , we are dealing with a man who refused to even jail the nuclear physicist Khan who spread the "nuclear bug " amongst the most radical of regimes in the world .Pakistan considers him a hero .
What in the hell can Sudan do , that we can't ?
When are we going to learn , that when push comes to shove -muslims aid and abet muslims
P-E-R-I-O-D .
Musharaf who is "allegedly " on our side has the bloody dog living in his country and we cant find him .....how is Sudan to " aid " us in Bin Laden's capture ????
Smells like an oil-induced CIA boondoggle to me .
Isn't it easy to look backwards into history and say what shoulda/woulda/coulda happened. But, in some way I am in agreement with you and here's why.
I believe that after we won the first world war, we should have marched on, taken over the rest of the world, and run it like the Founding Fathers meant to have us run the USA. Of course, we are a million miles away from the original intent of what we were to be by now. Freedom is becoming extinct.
By the way, you didn't say what morally and intellectually superior country you were from?
owl
Kali,
You have a long way to go and a lot to learn about the US, Corporations, the People, etc.and I can’t spend a year to re-educate you in the truth so research it for yourself or remain a misinformed nitwit, (ala kj) your choice.
YOU -re Cross: well, no I don't hate jobs...but your wealthy CEO-class Americans seem to. Working in IT I have seen thousands of jobs your country can't export fast enough land here on Chennai's golden shores
ME- I don’t think you are really as dumb as you are trying to be. CEO’s against jobs? Seriously, CEO’s work for the shareholders and are concerned only with maximizing profits, if sending menial task jobs overseas where poverty stricken citizens will do the work for a fraction of what an American will do it for then the CEO’s will do that. To say that they hate jobs is being intentionally intellectually dishonest. Sounds almost as stupid as something kj would try to pass off.
YOU-As for persecuting homosexuals in America (I discuss India below), I read how the Republicans unofficially campaigned in thousands of Christian churches to spread fear that maybe 5% of your population might get married (why not promote stable, loving couples?).
ME- You read this? Where, in some dishonest reporters left wing column in some silly rag of a newspaper. Let me wise you up so you don’t spiral down to the depths of ignorance and left wing stupidity, like kj did.
First of all American TV idolizes homosexuals, Will & Grace and Queer Eye for the Straight Guy are 2 examples. But more importantly, if homosexuals are granted the same legal standing as a married Man and Woman then we must give equal marriages to all other relationships that want it. For example, a Man and Woman and her 2 sisters, A woman and her dog, in fact there would be no limit on who or what could get married.
Ever ask yourself why the left brings up “Christian Churches”? Should I spend the next 10 minutes writing up what I’ve written several times already about why the left hates Churches and the family and how they seek to destroy these traditional institutions as a means to a political end? You should read more about the truth and stop reading left wing anti-American disinformation and believing whatever lying BS comes across your TV screen. Can you think outside your little box or are you doomed to be a parrot of the left, like you know who.
Thanks for your reply to my earlier post.
What morally superior country ???
Are you for real ? Did YOU just fall out of a christmas tree ?
The CIA has a dismall trtack record ....by ANYONE's standard . I was in Natrang 1969-1971 and watched as my country was fed erroneous information that got pepole killed , info that duped Westmoreland and the President .
Taken over the rest of the world ? You can not be serious ! I think just to smitten our enemies would do .
Wasn't 9/11 enough ? And the acrimonious blame shifting that took place afterwards ? And the totally unexplainable absence of mass firings in CIA and FBI ?
What PLANET are you living on ???
Yea , sarcasms like "shoulda ,coulda woulda ", might sound good in a bar room at 3am , but after the next disaster , and in all likelihood it will be biological or nuclear , are you spout that lame bullshit ?
Do you have any idea of how much of our treasure goes into funding these agencies [that wont even talk to one another ? ]
I think not ? If yopu did , you wouldn't put up with the LOUSY JOB they're doing .
You dont have to go back a "zillion years "
just try 1991 , whenb we let Saddam and his Republican Guard escape intact ....WHOSE advice wasd that ? Of course the "brilliant CIA " forewarning about a Shiite takeover in the power vacuum .
I think I could've got a third grader to supply "intelligence" like that .
BTW , where the F does moral superiority come in here ??
I'm bitching about decisions made out of gross incompetence bordering on treason and malfeasance , driven and caused by an overiding desire to perpetuate a beauracracy ,which has taken precedence of the F security of the U S .
And if all this wasn't bad enough , it's STILL buisiness as usual .
Hey owl ,you're still wet behind the ears kid , maybe you need to be on a front line exposed to hostile fire ,to realize just how nasty poor intelligence can be . No one's perfect and when intelligence lapses of the immensity of the ones that left this country wide open on 9/11 occur, there had better be some damn good excuse for it .
And so far I have heard NONE .
Excaliber:
I understand your anger, but you're going to have apoplexy at the rate you are going.
Do something constructive with your anger. We all feel as you do, it's just that some of us would rather do something about it, as I'm sure you want to.
I'm recruiting:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Antidhimmitude/
Apoplexy ? No my freind - utter disgust is more like it . For I have been overseas on and off for the past 30 years .[including my stint in the Army] ..and I have seen time and again the bungling perpetrated by the CIA , and the resulting disastrous effects.
It is in fact the CIA , that is helping to perpetuate this foolish relationship with the Saudis and indeed facilitates them on many occaisions . For what reason ?
I am more than well informed regarding the import of islam and its utter hatredof the west and in particular the U S . Thsi will not go away , itis the natural end to their vile cult -it is the bottom line - anyone who can't recognize this , knows nothing of islam and muslims .
We are entering dangerous times , we are in a war in fact , and i'm sure you are well aware of that . Unfortunately it seems the best interests of this , our country , is not the agenda of the CIA , since it seems to operate according to "differing agendas " , and it's main concern historically has been self-perpetuation , crony-ism , and too much of a concern for the interests of big oil . If you want to see where the heart is ,follow the ex-CIA ,and see where they "wind-up [ on whose payroll ].
Sadly I have no solution , nor do you . Maybe the new Intelligence Czar will make a difference , only time will tell . But how many more blunders costing American lives , before our intelligence services are up to speed , or atleast worth the treasure we are funding them with . Heads must roll , and we need to get real Americans in charge of these agencies . I Find it a sorry day in hell when British Intel & Israeli Intell., where sending dangers signals prior to 9/11 , while our own agencies were doing WHAT ?
........pissing on each other .
Did I leave out the FBI ? [ their story is more sickening ] Check out ex- FBI agent /top US investigator on Al -Queda -Security chief for
the WTC . Killed on 9/11 -WTC . Ignored by the FBI , because his superiors did not like him . And the man on watch IS STILL THERE !
Do you see a pattern here ?
KJ,
"We are not fully utilizing oil from Venezuela, despite the near certainty that a lot of the money we spend in the Arabian Peninsula goes to support Islamic terror, because Chavez is friends with C-C-C-Castro. ("Ooooh! Scary!")"
You are pretty disinformed.
The only reason why the US government is not fully utilizing venezuelan oil is because Chavez himself is doing all what he can do to disturb the connexions to the USA.
He is the one who is frequently threatening the "Imperium" (what means your country) to cut the oil delivery.
Late but hopefully not to late the Bush administration realized the nature of the Chavez dictatorship and the danger of his international connexions.
Chavez's best friends are C-C-C-Castro, Khatami, the Sheik of Quatar, Mugabe, former Hussein.
Each of one an excellent democrat.
The treatments signed between Chavez and these governments have nothin to do with supporting Islamic terror?
What do you mean?
You are a cynic. Aren't you?
Liz ......LOL ...and again you'll find CIA bunglers involved in such decisions .
They still haven't gotten over their Castro-phopia from the Bay of Pigs fiasco , the same heads rule , the same that badly advised JFK on their horrendous blunder ......now Cubans in Miami supply effective voting blocks and literally "direct "U S policy in the Carribean , to a significant degree .
It wasn't the first time and certainly not the last time , that the CIA badly advised the Commander-in-Chief of this great country .
We face a much more implacable enemy today than Castro-ever was or ever will be , time to get new thinking in the CIA and FBI ,a telling example of this self-destructive mindset is the FBI's refusal to hire Israeli -arabic translators in spite of the extreme need for their services and THE FACT THAT THOSE ETHNIC ARABIC TRANSLATORS ALREADY WORKING FOR THE FBI SMILED ON 9/11 PUBLICLY !!!!
What in the bloody hell are we thinking !!!
If all this weren't so bloody serious .....it would be a comedy routine !!
You know , in WW2 , the British really didn't want to see Hitler assasinated prematurely , for his outrageous military blunders were actually aiding the Allies ......I wonder if the islamo-fascists aren't thinking the same of our leaders , or atleast those in charge of the CIA
and FBI.
Excaliber,
"We face a much more implacable enemy today than Castro-ever was or ever will"
The thing is I believe that the islamo fascists will get a great support by Chavez and Castro (Chavez is doing nothing without Castro's advice).
It is suspected that the Isla Margarita (Venezuela) is a basis of them.
The recent opening of Al Jazeera office in Venezuela is not a merely coincidence.
Well let's hope our CIA and FBI are on top of this instead of under it .
I think Castro is wise enough to know , especiaaly in these times , where dancing with America's enemies will get him .
Chavez on the other hand needs to learn .
We'll see if GW is really serious when he says "you are either on our side or against us ".