Sunni Muslims destroy a Shi'ite mosque with a suicide bomb. In retaliation, Shi'ite Muslims burn down a Kentucky Fried Chicken, killing six people. This one is just as crystalline an example of linear reasoning as the killing of 17 Afghanis because a Gitmo interrogator may have flushed a Qur'an. "Six KFC workers die in Karachi violence," from the Financial Times:
Six employees of Kentucky Fried Chicken, the American fast food chain, were killed in Karachi overnight Monday when their restaurant was set on fire by Shi’ite youths seeking revenge for a suicide bomb attack on a local mosque, police and rescue workers said.
The KFC outlet, located in the southern city’s densely populated Gulshan-e-Iqbal district, was ransacked in a riot that also damaged petrol stations, bank branches, shops and dozens of vehicles.
The bodies of the KFC workers - five restaurant staff and a security guard - were found before sunrise Tuesday, when rescue workers entered the premises to check on the scale of damage. Four of the victims were burned to death while the two others froze to death after taking refuge in a refrigeration unit, a senior police official, Manzoor Mughal, was quoted as saying by Associated Press.
The riot followed an attack Monday on the Shi’ite Madinatul Ilm mosque in Gulshan, in which three assailants, suspected to be Sunni Muslim extremists, clashed with police before exploding a bomb that killed two of the attackers, two policemen and a worshipper. Twenty-six people were injured, AP said.
The surviving assailant told police he was associated with Jaish-e-Mohammad, a Sunni militant group accused of orchestrating several attacks against minority Shi’ites, Christians and government officials, and suspected of having links with al-Qaida, the AP report said. About 80 per cent of Pakistan’s 150m people are Sunnis, while 17 per cent are Shi’ites...
Let's see...Sunnis take down a Shi'ite mosque, so the Shi'ites take down a KFC; infants placed on trial for adultery; giant teapots condemned; etc.
Not the "religion of peace." Perhaps the "religion of the ridiculous" or the "religion of the outrageous"? Certainly the "ideology of the illogical"!
I thought that mosques were supposed to be sacred to muslims?
Isn't it Islamophobic to burn down a mosque?
Is therre any doubt that the cesspool of Pakistan is inhabited by nothing more than a horde of primative simians?
I predict that the global conflagration that the present generation of humanity will experience will have six centres of gravity: Saudi Arabia, Iran, the Levant (the defunct UAR), Turkey, Pakistan, and Indonesia/Malaysia. The rest of the Islamic world will be just a side show.
yes well, the division between shiites and sunnis are one of the largest dividing factors in today's muslim community- i personally condemn it strongly, and many just as I, because it really messes up any positive image muslims ever had in todays media
I think you are missing the point. Surely the large plaster statue of Colonel Sanders in front of KFC is at least twice as humiliating as a giant teapot.
I saw pictures of the carnage on the TV. The news of suicide attack spread fast across the and the youth came out on the streets. Some set on fire a fast food restaurant adjacent to the mosque. They also set ablaze four cars, a bus and a motorcycle of a press photographer.
A suicide bomber and his three accomplices had been intercepted at the main gate of the mosque by security guards but the bomber succeeded in entering the building. He was intercepted by a worshipper in the veranda while others were offering prayers. The bomber started firing indiscriminately but the brave worshipper overpowered him leaving the bomber no choice but to blow himself up in the veranda some 10 feet from the inner gate of the mosque’s building. At least 150 worshippers were offering prayers at that time.
The head and legs of the suicide bomber were lying on the floor while other parts of his body were seen stuck to walls. It was reported that an exchange of fire took place at the main entrance between the assailants and the police and security guards in which one attacker died and another was wounded. The fourth assailant managed to escape. A police official was also killed in the shootout.
So where do the suicide bombers come from? The homegrown variety are from the madressahs, which flourish more than ever . There are 16,000 madressahs in Pakistan which impart "education". These people are not ignorant, crazed or simple-minded. They have been carefully taught and brainwashed into believing that to take the final journey, to opt for paradise, by taking with them those who do not share their beliefs, which is "the ultimate form of martyrdom."
I don't think that suicide terrorist attacks are random acts taken on the spur of the moment. They are part of an organized campaign and are one of the most efficient forms of terrorism.
Musharraf and his government backtracked on the matter of madressah reforms. The mullahs and maulvis of the MMA won out on that one.
There are three things here:
1) Who would come & inverst in Pakistan right now, just imagine it.... someone works hard during the day, comes out for a bite to eat from KFC and wham.....wrong place, wrong time & you are dead.
2)Karachi is the most dangerous place in Pakistan. Too many things happen here, and life can be cheap. You do have places like Waristan , but these are remote hilly places where there are no so many people.
2) The MMA is fast gaining ground. One day they will remove Mushi from power & run with it themselvers....then the sparks will really fly. The MMA have the potential to be as drocanian as the Taliban only they will have the arsenal of Pakistan.
Let me put it on record here today....the MMA will become one of the most dangerous political parties of the modern era. Ignore them at your own peril.
The Muslim world found itself left behind, through its own fault, the MMA is eroding the evolution of society, and at odds with the demands of reality as it exists in today’s world.
The MMA religious leaders, the self-proclaimed guardians of the bastion of Islam were marching in the streets of our cities protesting against sacrilegious acts committed against the Koran in a distant countyry but I wonder whether they are equal;ly comfortable when the murder of Muslims by Muslims is in their own homeland?
They have opened Pandora's box, the touch paper has been lit, now sit back and endure the fireworks.
Å KFC is bombed in retaliation because a mosque is burned. Do they think that eating chicken was the cause? The logic of this one escapes me...escapes us all!
Extremism is driving Islam in all corners of the earth. Extremists have always had their way and will force the non-violent through peer pressure --- be aware that all practicing Muslims can be intimidated into participating.
Quote: Four of the victims were burned to death while the two others froze to death after taking refuge in a refrigeration unit.
That's what they call Fire 'n Ice effect. Jokes apart, steady rise of MMA is surely worrying development. Those Pathans of NWFP know the language of sword. While British media concentrates on Hindu "nationalists" we hardly get to read about MMA and it's chums here in Britain.Wake up Beeb.
Hulegu Khan,
I like this turn of phrase: "...the cesspool of Pakistan is inhabited by nothing more than a horde of primative simians."
No, wait! According to Islam, who are the monkeys?
Naseem,
Yes, access to the weapons of Pakistan presents the gravest of dangers.
it really messes up any positive image muslims ever had in todays media
muslim,
Muslims have a positive image in today's media?
Killing, bombing, rioting, murdering, raping...
the list is too bloody long... wherever muslims show up in the world.... in Asia, Africa, Europe, America... Muslims are a disease in the body of mankind... they bring misery, terror, death to any shore they land on.
I guess the raging and drooling mob had a need for fresher meat than Pakistani chicken.
Naseem,
Thanks for sharing... an insight one can't get in the media.
I predict that the global conflagration that the present generation of humanity will experience...
Hulegu,
Do you think there is anything we can do to avoid this?
Naseem:
As skidd above stated, thanks for the post.
Naseem,
Islam is a force holding back the advancement of a society like Pakistan.
Since you are at ground level there, do you think there is any way Islam can collapse like the USSR? Perhaps when enough people are fed up of this death cult and see it for what it is - a doctrine that brings them misery, terror, and death - will they turn against their mullahs en masse and chase them into the rocks?
How do you think this thing can be defeated?
Muslims are neither "primitive simians" nor a "disease". That kind of talk is hateful AND counter-productive.
Muslims are first and formost HUMAN BEINGS. It is the fascistic and supremacist ideology of Islamism that Muslims are brainwashed with that is the probleme.
Let's keep the focus on that, shall we?
Muslims are first and formost HUMAN BEINGS. It is the fascistic and supremacist ideology of Islamism that Muslims are brainwashed with that is the probleme.
Not to mention their illiteracy, irrationalism, and complete lack of self control.
Sorry John, but I'm not going to treat someone who wants to slice my throat with dignity and respect, I will treat them as someone with a hell of a death wish.
They've had their chance, and they blew it.
She has been around here for a while. She has many names. "Naseem" is just one of them. She sometimes pretend to be a "moderate" like now and pretend to be your friend. At other time she choose a different name and come as fanatic muzi or even as an atheist. A despicable liar pretending to be many things. A real muzi.
Here are some of what I wrote about the chicken jihad earlier.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/006437.php#c95634
Its the CHICKENS who are to blame!
What is wrong with these people?
The other day, after a suicide bomb blast at a muhammadan shrine, people shouted "down with America."
And now we have people burning up the KFC after another suicide attack.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/006437.php#c95822
KFH: Kentucky Fried HUMANS
6 Humans Fried (BBQed) at KFC
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/006448.php#c95864
Posted by John Palubiski at May 31, 2005 10:42 AM
Look "John Palubiski"
According to muhammadanism some people like Jews are descendants of apes. So its not really too unfair to retaliate. What do you think.
Naseem, time to get the hell out of Dodge! Pakistan will implode one day soon and it will be ugly. Bush's strategic masterstroke in turning Uncle Mushie to our side will soon start to bear the fruit it was designed to do. Naseem, if you can't bring yourself to leave your religion, at least move somewhere where you'll be safe.
"Naseem" : glad to see you are still around posting comments. Perhaps over time you have begun to see in a small way how Islam is a terrible deception upon mankind like chains, ropes, and handcuffs. Perhaps over time you will do your own thinking and reasoning therefore escaping deception. Surely without force you will realize the error of Islam. Unlike Islam itself which from beginning to end values the methods of force.
What is Islam all about?
- Revenge
- Propaganda
- Deceit
- Brainwashing
- Rigid Law
- Spin-doctoring
- Blaming
Just to name a few of the parasitic characteristics of Islam. Who wants to vacation in an Islamic country? When does Islam ever set a good example? Where are the "moderates?" Every Islamic country on the face of the earth is a disaster and Islam does not clean up it's own act. Historically, it has had to be externally policed.
There is no moral equivalence. Anyone who tries to say that "others do it too" will find that for every occurrence of 1, Islam has committed 100 acts of force, violence, lack of tolerance, and oppression upon it's own self, much like a schoolyard brat.
"Adherents of militant Islam account for some 15-20 percent of the Muslim world..."
www.meforum.org/article/168
Informed Christian (IC) says "Naseem" is a muzi (muslim nazi) troll.
Nothing could be further than the truth from this statement. It is true that I have been posting for a number of months. There are some very clever people on this site and many of them on a general level know more about Islam than I do (that of course cannot be true on a day by day basis because I live it and they don’t).
I know that it is hard to trust a muslim, but let me tell you, I DON’T post under a different name….there is no need for me to waste my time in that manner.
Whatever my viewpoint IC, I hope that the people here see that at the very least I am not in denial, that I don’t say stuff like all is OK with Islam (which I did say when I first came to JW).
But in answering Skidd’s question about defeating this type of mentality, (which is advantageous to me too). I would say a number of things.
Only Islam can stop the extremes of Islam, external influence like the invasion can help but can only ever be the catalyst. The following other steps to Pakistan for example could help too.
1) Any external aid such as money donations must be open to scrutiny. Why should a country not know where the money it has donated goes to.
2) Provide influence as to where some of this money goes, e.g. ensure that a number of projects have a women in charge of project management. Sure, they will make mistakes, but you really need this shift out of the box……they are a threat to the MMA.
3) The population of Pakistan is spiralling out of control, the more children there are, the more madrassas will spring up, this is strengthening the movement. This strengthening will bring the pure Sunni to a house next to yours in the years to come. If the MMA come to power expect this sooner than later.
4) If women are in charge, there is less time for them bear more children. Muslim women take work responsibility much more seriously than their male counterparts.
5) If the Pak government refuses this type of setup, or they MMA steps in, remove the funding, renege on potential arms/food deals. Some of these projects could involve new school builds which would follow English, maths, engineering, IT etc. Also tech cooking and sex education (mustly to wmen by women teachers).
6) Promote the muslims in the West to try & setup a global religious committee which is responsible for providing direction in religious matters. It is hoped that they will start to provide a softer face to Islam, if the thinkers in the ME don’t like it….tough….decisions have to be made.
In summary one of the most important keys is the empowerment of women in muslim societies. Once this type of program starts ….protect at all costs.
I hope that the information I give is useful to you (and is viewed almost as a” grass” or “traitor” from the muslim perspective).
If you don’t want to hear from me just say the word, & I’ll stop posting.
Listen "informed Christian" I'm fully aware of Islam's danger......and this was the case LONG before 911. I realise, as well, just to what extent Islam is heretical.
It's much more useful and rational (and Christian!)to denounce the ideology rather than the hapless "instances" of bone and tissue that have had the misfortune to have been indoctrinated by it!
We're not engaged in a war against a "race", but rather a struggle against neo-fascist ideas.
I'm clear on that point, but perhaps others posting here are not.
Some months ago I went to hear Irshad Manji speak.....and did so at some physical risk because one had to walk a gauntlet of screaming jihadis.
Irshad did NOT, I can assure you, resemble a "primitive simian" in any way, shape or form!!
Although, and to be honest, some of the shrieking fauna outside were most certainly imbued with a kind of "simian" rage.......
Naseem
Surely, it is only a matter of time until they start suicide-bombing and killing Ahmadiyaa's in large numbers in Pakistan?
I agree fully with John Palubiski here: calling muslims a disease is not particularly justified or helpful. Muslims are human beings, the same as you or I, but who have merely been exposed to a extrememly bad societal meme. Would you despise a cancer victim, or the cancer he carries? And there may yet (though I am not extraordinarily hopeful, frankly) be forms of islam that are not inherently violent.
Ultimately, thinking like that could lead to the sort of behaviour wherein people burn down KFCs or giant teapots.
Don't go there, girlfriend.
Imam Geoff
"DEATH TO AMERICA,DEATH TO INFIDELS,THEY WILL BE CONSUMED BY THE FIRE AND THIER BONES GROUND TO DUST"
"Ok,that concludes our sermon for today,now what sounds good for lunch?"
"KFC?McDonald's?Burger King?How bout Taco Bell,I love thier new goat chalupa!!!"
JLP
Geoff:
' Mohammedans are victims of their own cult -" they are humans too"- Well, perhaps just that.
Better THEY are the victims then us, no?
Please read Hughs latest post. That answers it.
As for Nasseem: He or she at least makes an effort to reason. Not like Shuggi or 1a who are mentally totally out of kilter and unable to grasp any concept of clear logical reasoning, disseminating objectively without the constraints of religious indoctrination and superstitions.
Stick with us, Naseem. In fact it would be good if we could hear more from you, but I am guessing you have lot that keeps you busy.
Informed Chrisrian
KUTA SALAH
calling Naseem
a muzi (muslim nazi) troll.
Was not called for,I have been around this site
for quite a long time,and I have had quite a few exchanges with Naseem.Thea same as I have had exchanges with you,Like yourself Naseem had a pause from commenting here,but since she has returned,she has been making a lot of good comments worth reading.
May-be Naseem ia a muslin,but she has also shown that she is in fact in more danger,than the rest the muslims that post here.
Now I shall say to you in Roberts words
CUT THE MUZI
Now,It is people like you that turned me away from christianity
Naseem
If you don’t want to hear from me just say the word, & I’ll stop posting.
I for one would like to hear from you,so please keep writing
Also I am still waiting for thomas to comment
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/006448.php#c95883
Posted by: Naseem at May 31, 2005 12:12 PM
You are right. Like you say "it is hard to trust a muslim." So should I trust you or is it better to be safe than sorry?
You are still in denial or else you wouldn't be a muhammadan anymore. What you meant to say is that you are in less denial than before, which is better than before but is still not good. You might revert back.
Playing sympathy games are we? Trying to make us look bad? "Oh those mean old islamophobes telling me to go." So sad, I think I am going to cry.
Should you stay or should you go?
Well frankly my dear I don't give a ... (Ok, if you don't know Naseem, its supposed to be a line from the movie/novel "Gone with the wind."
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/006448.php#c95885
Posted by: John Palubiski at May 31, 2005 12:25 PM
What do you mean by that?
Hard to know exactly what you mean. I might agree with you a little bit. But do you believe that people have free-will? Do you believe that there is evil? Do you believe in responsibility? Just curious.
No need to tell me that. Christianity is against racism, although muhammadanism isn't. It sanctions it according to some hatith verses. I know John. muhammadanism is not about race or class or gender or whatever. Its about an ideology.
Is "John Palubiski" your real name? I wouldn't recommend that you use your real name here. You might get killed.
Here we go again. I am talking about "True" muhammadans like those outside, as you said, who follows their "prophet".
Not lesbian hypocrites like Irshad.
Hey Naseem do you think Irshad is a hypocirite? If you then maybe you could explain it to John.
Look John there are a lot of "heretical" muhammadans and Christians too who are only nominally Christain or muhammadan. Thy actually don't believe in anything in the Quack'ran or the Bible. They just do whatever they want.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/006448.php#c95897
"Now,It is people like you that turned me away from christianity"
Posted by: shiva at May 31, 2005 01:35 PM
Hmm. Guess what I have a suspicision that you have a problem with some parts of christian teaching. Are you like gay or something and hates Christians because they are opposed to it, for example. What is it? Come clean.
No people shouldn't trun you away from anything. If you really believe in Christianity then even if you see "bad" Christians you should still not turn away from it. You must not like some part of the christian message.
By the way shiva, I have reasons to be weary of muhammadans as Naseem herself agree. So I gave a warning.
Trust me shiva, this Christian is not perfect but I ain't no lamb for the slaughter.
Yes well, it is true that technically, Muslims are considered a part of the human species. If only they would behave that way.
Thanks Geoff for agreeing with my position. It's a turn-off and totally unhelpful when people use inflamatory rhetoric and insulting terms to describe ANY AND ALL adherents to a belief systeme. The individual who used the example of a cancer tumor and the cancer patient was spot on! A clever and apt analogy!
Shiva doesn't understand what I meant by heretical. In Christianity, Shiva, we are told to distinguish between secular and divine law. Christians must necesssarily adhere to civil law when that is what is demanded of them. God has a right to only part of my conciousness, not all!
Islam disolves the distinction between the spiritual and the temporal world; Islam is a whole way of life that purports to be able to micro-manage even the smallest details of our daily routines. ALL law must be divine law and nothing else ever, ever takes precedence. God occupies the whole arena.
That position is in complete contradiction with Christianity.
The second major difference concerns prospects of an earthly paradise. For Christians, utopia on earth is an theological impossibility. This "kingdom-of-god" can only exist in the next life because our human world is far too imperfect and "fallen" to carry it off.
Islam, though, because it is a *total* belief systeme, says that this is possible......thus the nostalgia for "The Caliphate" and "The Golden Age" and the fervor to recreate both.
Many islamists feel that by tweaking sharia and by adhering in the purest manner possible to every sura and hadith that an earthly utopia will miraculously appear. It is the divinely ordained march of history that makes this an "inevitability".
The "state" will wither away. The "state" of sin, that is.
Islam has immanentised the Christian eschaton ( the-end-of-days) and is thus determined to create paradise in the here and now.
This position, too, is in complete contradiction with Christianity
Think of the Taliban, Shiva. In an effort to generate a Caliphate they had to go so far as to banish kite-flying........and laughing our loud in public! They made a human desert and called it "peace"!
And John Palubiski IS my real name.
Naseem,
Thanks for your post. Again it brought insights, engaging the muslim women is a new perspective for me.
John,
It's not a good idea to use your real name here.
Make a quick change at TypeKey. In and out in 60 seconds tops.
Naseem
Thanks for you input. Informed_christian is anything but.
I have been a regular reader of JW, used to be known as the rather lame freestar.
John Palubiski
I dont have to think about the Taliban,I live in Indonesia so I get to see the real Islam first hand
Also I am aware of christianity and islam and I have no intention to get into any discussion about christianty here.As this is Jihad Watch,so it is better to stick to combatting Islam and Jihad
Monotheism means the worship of the One True God.
Unfortunately there's some confusion over who the One True God actually is. Christians believe one thing, Muslims another, and the Jewish faith is different yet again.
It seems to me that Christians, Jews, Muslims, Protestants, Catholics, and Seventh-Day Jehovah's Mormons all devoutly worship the same Supreme Being. But the devil is in the details and, apart from confessing their devotion to the One True God, they can't agree on anything else. Which is very sad as this has caused a lot of unnecessary pain and suffering.
I try to respect everyone's beliefs.Except Islamists and fanatics,I don't want to offend anyone in any way. ButI will just say this. Whether in business or religion,monopolies can be a very bad thing.Monotheism seems to bring out the worst in some people.
Polytheism, with its acceptance of many Gods and multiple beliefs, is not only more friendly and more fun,it's safer too.
Sometimes quite angry comments are made here telling us that the One True God is the only deity worth worshipping,
How dare you mention other Gods? they ask.
We should reply by asking what all the billions of people who've worshipped these deities over the past few thousand years would say to this.
I don't pretend to be expert on all religions, but I can certainly point you to quite a few places in the Holy Bible where other Gods are mentioned by name. Why else would the Lord say "Thou shalt have no other Gods but me?"
Informed Christian
By the way shiva, I have reasons to be weary of muhammadans as Naseem herself agree. So I gave a warning.
NOW READ THIS BEFORE YOU CALL NASEEM A MUZI
http://www.thepersecution.org/facts/h71-80.html
I reckon I have more reason to mistrust muslins than most people on this forum.But somehow there are two muslims who post here,who are making some good post,and worth paying attention to,and I am referring Naseem and Thomas.
"According to muhammadanism some people like Jews are descendants of apes. So its not really too unfair to retaliate. What do you think."
I think it's not unfair. It's childish, racist, and utterly unhelpful to the battle against jihad, but it's not unfair.
As to comments such as "Muslims are a disease in the body of mankind", this kind of rhetoric could easily be found in the propaganda of the Holocaust or the Rwandan genocide. Even taking as granted the contentious idea that Muslims as a whole are the enemy, de-humanizing the enemy leads to atrocity, and ultimately to genocide. The Christians among us are commanded to love our enemies, which should immediately preclude this kind of talk. To the non-Christians, I can only appeal to human decency. Despite the many wrongs that the jihadists have committed and are yet to commit, we must not fall victim to the lie that our enemies are not fellow human beings. This is not just "PC" or "liberal" theory, it is being practiced for real all over the world as we speak. Hamas refer to Jews as "pigs", because they know that it is easier to convince people to kill pigs than to kill humans.
As Geoff says, let's not go there. The war against jihad should be a war to save our humanity, not to destroy it. It's easy to scoff at the argument that we should not sink to the level of the enemy by behaving as they do. But seeing some of the rhetoric on this site has made me more convinced than ever that the danger is quite real. I've seen support for "mass deportation", "mass execution", and the ominous talk of Muslims as animals or a disease. I only hope that such attitudes are confined to "a tiny minority of extremists".
Muslims are first and formost HUMAN BEINGS. It is the fascistic and supremacist ideology of Islamism that Muslims are brainwashed with that is the problem.
John,
Yes. Thanks for pointing that out.
We are fighting ideas, not humans.
Islam is an idea. It has no shape or form.
This idea remains inconsequential until it is transferred into a person's head and orders his behaviour and life. Then it comes alive - the idea acquires shape, form, arms, legs, head, will, and strength. The person becomes the expression of this idea. The idea now takes human form.
With these human bodies, the idea transfers itself into other heads and acquire more bodies (it does this in madrassas and mosques), and with all its human bodies it acts itself out. At the personal level, community level, national level, international level.
We are still fighting an idea.
But this idea now has millions of heads, arms, legs, can plan, construct bombs, blow people to bits, terrorise societies, subvert governments, drag people to courts, kill, maim, destroy.
We know that if we can get these ideas out of these people's heads, they can be decent human beings who can live happily with everyone else. The idea has anticipated this and has built in defenses. It utilises terminal violence to keep itself intact inside its human hosts (death to apostates), and propagate itself across the planet (death to infidels). It is predatory and seek to annihilate other ideas and the humans hosting them, untill it is the only idea left on the planet.
So how do we fight this thing?
The most direct is to fight the idea in the host's heads - education.
We educate those who are infected, and assist them so they can discard this idea and still stay alive.
We educate those who are not infected, so they can stay immune from this idea.
There are those who have identified with the idea, and persist in hosting it, being its expression on earth, propagate it, and fight us with arms, legs, head, will, strength, and haul us to court, subvert our freedoms, societies, nations, bomb, kill, maim, destroy, the works. These are human beings. Not an idea anymore.
The idea now has taken physical form. It now has arms, legs, heads, will, strength, and can intimidate, maim, kill, destroy.
So what do we do?
We leave the human forms alone and attack just the idea?
Some have done just that, and this is the idea's response:
Michel Houellebecq, writer, called Islam "the stupidest religion" in a magazine interview - The idea's arms, legs, heads hauled him to court for slandering Islam.
Oriana Fallaci, writer, wrote a book "The Rage and the Pride" detailing the islamization of Europe - The idea's arms, legs, heads hauled her to court for insulting Islam.
Theo Van Gogh, filmmaker, make "Submission" a film showing muslim women brutalised by Islam - The idea's arms, legs, and head shot him, slit his throat till the head almost fell off, and stuck two daggers into his chest. He died.
The idea's arms, legs, heads are using our freedoms to take away our freedoms, and piece by piece replace our social structure with the idea's.
Does 1400 years of this idea's history show us what to do?
Can we extinguish the idea without confronting its human carriers?
The idea has always been personified in human form. Outside of the human body, the idea is dead. In fact, if you do confront this idea's human carriers, but not strongly enough, you get annihilated. History is littered with such civilizations - not a person, not a town, not a city, but whole civilizations - annihilated by Islam.
Civilizations wiped out are: the Nabatians, Hejaz, Heiras, Yemenese, Lakhmids, Mazuns, Humyarites, Hadramauts, Eqyptians, Carthaginians (Tunis), Siraneeks (Libya), Nubians (Sudan), Phoenicians (Lebanon), Shams (Syria), Anatolians (Turkey), Zoroastrians (Iran). Not exhaustive list.
Why is this idea so virulent that it can extinguish whole civilizations - a civilization-class destroyer?
1. It is predatory. It seeks to annihilate all other ideas until it is the only one left on the planet.
2. It is structured for the destruction of other civilizations. It divides the world into two parts: Dar-el-Islam (House of Islam : islamic lands) and Dar-el-Harb(House of War : non-islamic lands where islamic law allows muslims to plunder, kill, maim, destroy, until these lands become islamic). Destruction of other civilizations is an objective.
3. It uses deception when it is a minority in a society, or a militarily weak nation. The doctrine is called taqiyya (deception, keeping one's convictions secret), and kitman (concealment of malevolent intents). This is institutionalised deception. And they want us to call this idea a 'religion'. It is political warfare.
4. It is expansionist. The doctrine is called jihad which is a 'divinely' sanctioned struggle to establish Muslim hegemony over non-Muslims as a prelude to the propagation of the Islamic faith.
5. It uses terminal violence to achieve its objectives. No qualms about anything. Cutting air stewardess's necks to use their arterial spray to scare passengers, kidnapping workers and cutting their heads off to force changes in national foreign policy, bombing housewives in markets, children in schoolbuses, anyone on the bus, anyone in a tourist haunt, anything. Blood, flesh, bones, hair, cloth, glass, metal blown to bits. No prob. Doesn't matter who either. Even their own people.
Why do human beings become hosts for this idea?
1. They are born into it. Muslim parents.
2. They are converted by Islamic apologists who presents the light parts, but not the dark. This doctrine is called daawa (invitation to Islam).
3. They can't leave Islam because the punishment for apostasy is death. This doctrine is called irtidad (apostasy).
Why is this idea so virulent?
Like a well-designed virus, the idea has two core parts.
1. Host retention.
Once a host is infected, it stays infected. If the host leaves, other muslims will kill him.
2. Propagation.
It empowers its hosts to use any means to convert the Dar-el-Harb (non-muslim lands) into Dar-el-Islam (muslim lands).
So, John.
What do we do?
The idea is not just an idea anymore.
The idea now has arms, legs, heads, will, strength that can plan, construct bombs, blow people to bits, terrorise societies, subvert governments, drag people to courts, use the freedoms you give them to take away your freedoms, kill, maim, destroy, the works.
And most of all, they are out to annihilate us.
And they are not shy about proclaiming that either.
I Find all this funny!!
We have heard since 9/11/2001 that mulsums are peacful and would never fight another mulsum??
WELL WE SEE DIFFERENT DON'T WE!!!
Now nasseem feels for her own life this is the only reason she is looking for our ? sympathy?
Keep in mind that word sympathy is in the dictionary between the words SH_T and SYPHILIS!!!
nasseem had no problem with the killing of Iraqis?? but now the tables are turning the other day she said wait till they come to your neigborhood as they did nothing untill it was to late just let the monsters grow and of course she reminded us of that paskistan has the mulsum bomb??
We know her country lets terrorist in their doors and hides them and now they pay the price!!
this will not happen in America because we know there is no where eles to run!!
WE HAVE DRAWN THE LINE AND INTEND TO KILL THE MONSTERS AND ALL THEIR SUPPORTERS!!
Europe will now have to defend itself!!
WE WILL HAVE OUR SHORT SKIRTS NASSEEM WILL LIVE IN HELL IN HER BURKA AND THE WORLD WILL TURN!!
May 31, 2005
Week-end??
Church bomb unexploded but 22 killed and over 40 wounded in a mulsums killing Christians [Indonesia] but still no pictures or video?? Yet we see over and over when we are to think the mulsums are the victims so who is it who runs the MSM??? I would say mulsums!!!
May 30 2005 after 2 days of mulsums killing Christians at a market there was a Earthquake in Indonesia!!! WOW! Now if that aint telling you something!!! Mulsums kill Christians and 2 days later an Earthquake in a mulsum area!!
Rumor FAT BOY FLYS syira to iran and calls for help because his guys are surrendering and fleeing??
Something about needing guidance well that is what happens when you follow the devil!!
17:18] And Abraham said to God," Oh that Ishmael might live in your favor!" 19] God said, “Nevertheless, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall name him Isaac; and i will maintain My covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his offspring to come. 20] As for Ishmael, I have heeded you. I hereby bless him. I will make him fertile and exceedingly numerous. He shall be the father of twelve chieftains, and will make of him a great nation. 21] But My covenant I will maintain with Isaac, whom Sarah shall bear to you at this season next year" 22] and when he was done speaking with him God was gone from Abraham.
23] then Abraham took his son Ishmael, and all his homeborn slaves and all those he had bought, every male in Abrahams household, and he circumcised the flesh of their foreskin on the very day, as God had Spoken to him.
FAVORS ISAAC!!!
THIS IS WHY IN THE QURAN YOU HAVE 5:32 IF YOU KILL A JEW WILL BE AS IF YOU KILL ALL MANKIND!!
NOW WHO IS CAUSEING TROBLE BUT THE MONSTERS WHO ARE AGAINST ISRAEL AND THE USA AND OTHERS WHO FOLLOW THE GOOD BOOK OF GOD THE TORHA AND BIBLE??
THEY WILL BRING THE DESTRUCTION OF ISHMAELS HOUSE!![Mulsums]
Mulsums blow up a mosque in Pakistan see pictures??
Still no pictures from the market bombing?? WOW ARE THEY ALL SAVAGES??
BOMB HITS NaTO HEADQUATERS IN Afghanistan ??
Rumor FAT BOY in iran??
N.Korea still playing games but their food is running out?? Can you say? sympathy?
Keep in mind that word sympathy is in the dictionary between the words SH_T and SYPHILIS!!!
Of course the Democrats in the senate are playing into their hand by putting their heads in the sand they will get your BUTTS SHOT OFF!!
USA to go to the WTO about France [AIRBUS} and China flooding the market with textiles??
LOOKS LIKE china better grow food for their stepchild North Korea because we don’t care the democrats have taken our humanity!! It is okay to ?? This is what terry Shivo have given the world!!
Euro down?? France does not want to be team players?? So does this mean the Europeans will not be united if the French can not rule?? Well if the EU becomes United Europe will this mean they only get one vote in the UN=LON=AL?? Just think of the Money saved ! While we are at it lets take all those who have their gangs in th UN like the AL AU all those little gangs and only give them one vote like the US or should we flood the UN+LON+AL with all 50 states and give them all a vote too!!
NO WONDER THE FRENCH VOTED NO!!
Pope Benedict went to Bari where St, Nichols was from 200,000 people showed up and no one died!! Boy this guy is smart!! Remember the Turks are trying to claim him??
Bosnians to send troops to Iraq to test if they are ready to join NATO???
Canadian Red Cross pleads guilty to distributing blood tainted with HIV and hepatitis C from the 1980s Now why would they do that?? Didn’t think there was even a test for the blood back then???
Democrats are screwing the Youths of the USA!! Sticking your head in the sand will only get your BUTT shoot off?? The democrats in the senate have their heads in the sand from every thing to energy missile defense [N. Korea shoot missile hit Alaska in 2000] to SS so since the parents have in America have raised their children to only care about self[me] will the me be like the French go on vacation to come home to find the old people all dead like in France [10,000 dead in france] yes old people dead and do they care no because the old people were costing to much money?? OH WELL?? The democrats in the senate say nothing is worth taken the fight to the enemy including 9/11 for less our grandparents flattened Europe and Japan!! [And their people are better for it] But the US senate democrats are worried what the french think or the Islamic terrorist around the world well the French can’t even get along with their neighbors? SO THEY STALL THE BOLTON’S nominee??
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44519
INVASION USA
Mexican commandos
seek control of border
U.S.-trained Zetas behind wave of violence killing hundreds over drug, smuggling routes
Hundreds have been killed in recent months in a wave of violence waged by the Zetas gang, headed by reputed drug kingpin Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman, said Mexico's Attorney General Daniel Cabeza de Vaca.
Who says they are not dangerous?? If Americans learned about all the rules in Europe?? OH MY!! Like how much money you make says what kind of car you can drive [2, 4,6,8.clynder] That there is not unlimited electricity yea like in Iraq if you pull to much it shuts off?? OR we have the British T.V. tax to the queen if you want to plug in a TV to watch a video or DVD you had better have paid that tax or you could go to jail?? Your SS card not only has your picture but also your finger prints and it cost you money to get on not given free?? OH Yea the most European countries have the Draft?? You must always have ID on you just incase the police want to see it??
OH YEA when you go to visit and have to turn over your Passport to the hotel what do you think they do with it?? Well they give it to the police to register you??? NOW what are the senate democrats out their saying we should be more like the Europeans??
http://www.beecy.net/frank/
Japan and Russia to meet and work out their differences could be a good thing??
Russian oil king gets convicted to 9 years turns out this guy is a mulsum who Yelson let walk all over the Russian people? I see this as no different than Tyco!! OR Enron but the Russians don’t give bail just like we don’t when there is fear of flight?? Just like CRAIN BOY!!!
They still have judges who don’t play to Hollywood!!
BOY Cspan over and over this week-end was pumping the mulsum crap but like the democrats in the senate the more they talk the more damage they do to themselves!!!
43% of Dallas schools50% of all students speak only Spanish??
WOW! TX has been invaded never thought that would work in TX where are the Austin’s, Huston’s, and Paul Reveres of our day??
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44519
INVASION USA
The spike in killings and kidnappings in northern Mexico in recent months has made headlines and prompted federal agents and soldiers to patrol the streets of Nuevo Laredo, across from Laredo, Texas.
On Thursday in Matamoros, across from Brownsville, Texas, a federal agent was killed in a shootout with two men who Cabeza de Vaca said were members of the Zetas, a group of military deserters believed to be loyal to Cardenas.
http://www.latinodawah.org/
Latino American Dawah Organization
Latino American Dawah Organization(LADO) is a nonprofit organization that was founded in 1997 by a handful of converts to Islam. Our mission is to promote Islam among the Latino community within the United States. We also educate Latinos and others about the legacy of Islam in Spain and Latin America and provide free information about Islam to all interested parties. Alhamdulillah (All praise is due to God), many Latinos are embracing Islam. Some feel that they are reclaiming their Islamic heritage.
NOW CAN PEOPLE STILL ADD 2+2=4???
MULSUMS & aclu GOING AFTER CROSS IN DESERT could Arlington cemetery be next??
Crosses being burned today around the country are mulsums doing so to cause black riots thanks to the Christians blacks they aint going for it.. it is the same thing that has been happening in Europe swa stickers put on graves by mulsums?? The courts are siding with the ACLU on the cross to honor WW1 Soldiers Thanks BILL?? What about the mulsums building a mosque on federal property??
AGAIN MULSUMS KILL OTHER PEOPLE NOTHING NEW THE THING IS WHAT ARE THE PEOPLE OR HUMANS GOING TO DO ABOUT IT????
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER FIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM AMEN
http://www.beecy.net/frank/
Qur’an 74:31 “We have appointed nineteen angels to be the wardens of the Hell Fire. We made a stumbling-block for those who disbelieve and We have fixed their number as a trial for unbelievers in order that the people of the Book may arrive with certainty, and that no doubts may be left for the people of the Book, those in whose hearts is a disease. And for those to whom the Scripture Book has been given, and the believers, there should be no doubt. The unbelievers may say, ‘What does the Lord intend by this?’ The Lord will lead astray whomever He pleases, and He will guide whomever He pleases: and none can know the armies of your Lord except He, and this is no other than a warning to mankind.”
This can be broken by Yes it is the Army of the people of the Book who he has chosen to Free [USA] the Iraqi people as it says
He will guide whomever He pleases: and none can know the armies of your Lord except He, and this is no other than a warning to mankind.”
Yes he has chosen the USA!!
TO FREE THE IRAQI PEOPLE FROM THE MONSTER saddam [FOUND IN A HOLE DON’T SHOOT I’M A YELLOW COWARD]
And let’s look at another part?
The Lord will lead astray whomever He pleases,
Ubl,saddam,zawari,all who Kill and destroy mankind?
There will be no more warnings?
Earthquake in Iran kills 31,000 who harbors ubls[YELLOW COWARD WHO RUNS AWAY] son and wife’s??
And now Locus in Egypt
NOW IF THAT IS NOT TELLING YOU ARE ON THE WRONG PATH NOTHING WILL??
Kazakhstan Blast in mine??
Islamic terrorist- killing Iraqis??
Earthquake in Algeria??
The typhoon in Philippines Remember they ran away from the Fight in Iraq??
http://www.onlypunjab.com/fullstory1104-insight-Pink+Locusts+from+North+Africa-status-15-newsID-503.html
Pink Locusts from North Africa Swarm Through Cairo
Publish Date : 11/18/2004 5:09:00 PM Source : Science and Technology News Onlypunjab.com
Swarms of pink locusts swept through the Egyptian capital on Wednesday, evoking the biblical description of the plagues which struck in the time of Moses.
The swarms of millions flew high above tall towers or swooped down onto treelined streets, where scared pedestrians stamped
on them or ran for cover.
The flying insects arrived from neighboring Libya after devouring the countryside in central and western Africa in past months.
YES I SAY ubl[YELLOW COWARD WHO RUNS AWAY] is losing and trying to regain control??
What verses did he say in his rambling and to say about the people of the book??
The people of
the book didn’t lose their crops??
Now Earthquake of mulsum Islands of Indonesia?? 9.3 and afterwards mass killer waves that effect many countries?/
Who is coming to the aid of the people But the Red Cross and India to help the people and Israel and the USA and the Western countries!!
210,000, mulsum killed in Indonesia alone?? Whole mulsum towns gone?? And Churches still standing??
We are waiting for the mulsums to help other mulsums?? Or with the entire fund raising they do help people instead of making war??
And now more 6.2 earthquakes in Indonesia?? Because they have sent Islamic terrorist to terrorize the victims of the killer wave??
January 11, 2005 Philippines an 4.3 Earthquake ??
Maybe small there because the fight against Islamic Terrorist??
Was ubls[YELLOW COWARD WHO RUNS AWAY] family in Indonesia we know they support Islamic Terrorist??
January 23 6.3 Earthquake in Indonesia??
AND THE LATES FOR THE FOLLOWERS OF THE CURSED??
http://www.lse.co.uk/ShowStory.asp?story=NL712421F&news_headline=abu_hamza_covered_in_scabs
Since then, he has been charged in the UK with 16 offences including soliciting others to murder non-believers, racial hatred and possessing a document liable to help terrorists.
Hook-handed cleric Abu Hamza is covered from head to foot in scabs because he has an ailment that makes his skin bleed.
One theory is that he could have psioriasis, which results in flakes falling from crusty red patches on the skin.
NOW IF THIS AINT TELLING YOU SOMETHING??
May 29,2005 Indonesia mulsums kill Christians in a Market try to blow up a church?? 22 dead 40 injured?
May 30,2005 an Earthquake in Indonesia in mulsum region??
I hear that extra guards have been posted on the Grapevine raisins??
IS ANYONE REALY SURPRISED?? If you know about the Torah or the Bible then you would understand they worship Ishmael and what it says about him will be an ass of a man his hand against every one!!
that these images of angles were animated by them and were intercessors with god for man. The most celebrated and central object of arab worship however was the blackstone of Mecca set in the corner of a square building called the Kaaba, in which also are placed the images of Abraham and Ismael each carrying in their hands divine arrows.
SO WHEN THE GO AROUND AND AROUND THEY WORSHIP ISHMAEL KNOW WHAT THEY SAY ABOUT HIM??
Genesis Chapter 16
9] and the angle of the LORD said to her “ Go back to your mistress, and submit to her harsh treatment” 10] and the angle of the LORD said to her “I will greatly increase your offspring/ and they shall be too many to count” 11] the angle of the LORD said to her further,” behold you are with child/ and shall bear a son;/ you shall call him Ishmael./ For the LORD has paid head to your suffering./ 12] he shall be a wild ass of a man;/ his hand against everyone,/ and everyone’s hand against him;/ he shall dwell alongside of all his kinsmen” 13] and she called the LORD who spoke to her, “ you are EL-roi” by which she meant. “Have I not gone on seeing after he saw me!” 14] Therefore the well was called Beer-lahai-roi; it is between Kadesh and Bered.-
YES AN WILD ASS OF A MAN WHO IS AGAINST EVERYONE????
Genesis 17:20 is about Ishmael this is what the mulsums talk about being tied to the Torah and the New Testament
17:18] And Abraham said to God," Oh that Ishmael might live in your favor!" 19] God said, “Nevertheless, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall name him Isaac; and i will maintain My covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his offspring to come. 20] As for Ishmael, I have heeded you. I hereby bless him. I will make him fertile and exceedingly numerous. He shall be the father of twelve chieftains, and will make of him a great nation. 21] But My covenant I will maintain with Isaac, whom Sarah shall bear to you at this season next year" 22] and when he was done speaking with him God was gone from Abraham.
23] then Abraham took his son Ishmael, and all his homeborn slaves and all those he had bought, every male in Abrahams household, and he circumcised the flesh of their foreskin on the very day, as God had Spoken to him.
you see mo-ham-od said to be of Ishaemls seed so hish and will be against all and will be an ass of a man!!
now like mo-ham-od was confused [because of the french] he didn't know this about Jesus??
I say it does matter and either you are with us or against us!!!
Luke 11:17 – 11:23 But he know their thoughts said: Every kingdom divided against its self is brought to desolation, and a house divided against a house falls. If Satan also is divided against himself how will his kingdom stand? Because you say I cast out demons by Beelzebub by whom do you sons cast them out?? Therefore They will be your Judges. But I cast out demons with the finger of God surly the Kingdom of God has come upon you. When a Strong Man Fully armed guards his own place, his goods are in peace. But when a stronger than he comes upon him and overcomes him taken from him all his armor in which he trusted and divides his spoils.
Luke 11:23 He who is not with me is against me and he who does not gather with me scatters.
Luke 22:35
And he said to them when I sent you without moneybag, knapsack and sandals did you lake anything: so they said Nothing then he said to them But now who has a moneybag let him take it and likewise a knapsack and he who has no sword let him sell his garments and buy one: 22:27 For I say to you that this which is written must be accomplished in me and he was numbered whit the transgressors for the things concerning me have an end
Ecclesiastes5:8-14
Walk in the light
For you once darkness but now you are light in the lord walk as children of light. [for the fruit of the spirit is in goodness, righteousness, and truth]
Find out what is acceptable to the Lord your God and have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of Darkness, But rather EXPOSE them.
12] For it is shameful ever to speak of those things which are done by them in secret [mussis are changing our laws so we can’t. look at the 2 Christians in Pa. and look at the 2 Christians in Australia put in jail for speaking out]
13] But all things that are exposed are made to manifest by the light, For whatever makes manifest is light. [If it is in the light it can been seen and be dealt with]
14] Therefore he says
AWAKE, You who sleep arise from the Dead
And the Lord your God will give you light in the Darkness
6:10] Finally my Brethren be strong in the Lord your God and in the Power of his might
11] Put on the whole armor of God, That you may be able to Stand against the wiles of the Devil
13] Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to with stand in the Evil day and having done all to Stand.
16] Above all, taking the Shield of Faith with which you will be able to quench all the Fiery Darts of the Wicked ones.
REMEMBER
Luke 22:36] Then he said to them,” But now, he who has a moneybag let him take it and like wise a knapsack and he who has no SWORD let him sell his garment and Buy one.
don't sound like a sissy to me!!!
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND AL WHO SUPPORT THEM OPEN THE WORLDS EYES TO THEIR THREAT LET NOT THE WORLD BE DECEIVED BY THEM GIVE THE WORLD STRENGTH TO SAND UP AND FIGHT THEM AMEN
Shiva does this mean that you are not of Indian origin. Sorry but anyone with a Hindu name is assumed to be a Nepali or an Indian. I've always thought of you to be of Indian origin tho.
I'll have to remember this logic: when violence and tragedy befall my friends and family, I will ransack, burn and kill the local fried chicken joint. Which might make some sense to some trog cause around here there are a lot of cheapo fried chicken places in the ghetto run by Pakis and Arabs.
Great post, skidd.
OT
Informed Christian,
I posted a response to your response to my post under the May 28 "Hirsi Ali" thread. I hope it helps explain a bit further--wish there were the time and space to discuss the issue further. Understanding it is so fundamental to the whole conflict. We have a grasp of it--sort of--and they have no grasp of it whatever!
Certainly the "ideology of the illogical"!
Posted by: WatchfulEye at May 31, 2005 09:03 AM
Hey, Watchful,
Right on! Islam missed its last opportunity to think logically when they rejected Ibn Rushd, "The Great Commentator" (on Aristotle's works) at the end of the 1100s. His entire adult life was spent in an effort to "clean up" Aristotle's work, which had undergone various corruptions over the centuries since it was written.
Aristotle invented logic (as well as how to define words, etc. etc.) but logic just didn't fit in with the prevailing Islamic viewpoint.
Ibn Rushd was a Muslim, born of (forcibly? I'm still looking into that) converted infidel parents in Cordoba, Spain; he was a genius who was a jurist, physician, and philosopher. His favorite philosopher was Aristotle, and he wrote extensively about him, primarily, it is thought, for students, since his works were grouped for begining, intermediate, and advanced studies.
Ibn Rushd's Muslim colleagues back in North Africa didn't like what he was doing (for example, he believed in educating women and other such nonsense), so they banished Ibn Rushd, and destroyed all of his works they could. He died not that long after that (some think it was under suspicious circumstances), although he apparently was able to enter Paradise with the proper credentials just in time.
Islam and logic don't mix. If they started thinking logically, it would destroy them.
Fortunately, Islam didn't destroy all his stuff. Part of Spain, in the North, was already in Christian hands by that time, and again, fortunately, in Toledo, a huge library that held Ibn Rushd's (among many others) works was still intact. Biship Raymundo of Toledo set to work to have the library's contents translated, and brought together Christians, Jews, and Muslims to do the work, and most important of all, didn't introject any of his own beliefs into the translations. When they were done, they were pretty much as the authors had written them.
The reason all this was so important is because a few of Ibn Rushd's things had leaked into Italy, where it fell into the hands of university students. They were excited by it to the point where the Church (which preferred Plato, who was Aristotle's teacher--the two of them had a huge fight and never really got along after that) started to get nervous. St. Thomas Acquinas tried to smooth the waters between the Church and Aristotle, and translated them all into Latin in the process.
So much Aristotelian philosophy, and all in Latin! It really lit the students' fires, and within about 100 years, the European Renaissance was born, and the fate of Islam, which had completely rejected Aristotle, was sealed.
They have no hope. What a great movie the whole story would make!
Fat chance.
I am surprised that no one caught nasseem in her denial??
I saw pictures of the carnage on the TV. The news of suicide attack spread fast across the and the youth came out on the streets. Some set on fire a fast food restaurant adjacent to the mosque. They also set ablaze four cars, a bus and a motorcycle of a press photographer.
WONDERFUL FILM AT 11??
A suicide bomber and his three accomplices had been intercepted at the main gate of the mosque by security guards but the bomber succeeded in entering the building. He was intercepted by a worshipper in the veranda while others were offering prayers.
SO DID THEY GET THE GUN OR WHAT??
The bomber started firing indiscriminately but the brave worshipper overpowered him leaving the bomber no choice but to blow himself up in the veranda some 10 feet from the inner gate of the mosque’s building. At least 150 worshippers were offering prayers at that time.
LEAVING THE BOMBER NO CHOICE AHHH BUT THERE IS ALWAYS A CHOICE TO KILL OR NOT TO KILL??
The head and legs of the suicide bomber were lying on the floor while other parts of his body were seen stuck to walls.
THE WONDERS OF ISLAM AND IT’S PEACEFUL GET ALONG WITH OTHERS GO INTO A PLACE OF WORSHIP AND KILL YOURSELF AND LEAVE A MESS FOR OTHERS TO CLEAN UP??
WHAT ABOUT ALL THEM QURANS THAT NOW HAVE BEEN DEFACED WITH THE KILLERS BLOOD?? BETTER FLUSH THEM!!
It was reported that an exchange of fire took place at the main entrance between the assailants and the police and security guards in which one attacker died and another was wounded. The fourth assailant managed to escape. A police official was also killed in the shootout.
So where do the suicide bombers come from?
THEY ARE ALL MULSUMS!!!
They have been carefully taught and brainwashed into believing that to take the final journey, to opt for paradise, by taking with them those who do not share their beliefs, which is "the ultimate form of martyrdom."
SO ISLAM TEACHES TO KILL OTHERS IN PRAYER IS THE ULTMO!!
I don't think that suicide terrorist attacks are random acts taken on the spur of the moment. They are part of an organized campaign and are one of the most efficient forms of terrorism.
WELL DUH!!
1) Who would come & inverst in Pakistan right now, just imagine it.... someone works hard during the day, comes out for a bite to eat from KFC and wham.....wrong place, wrong time & you are dead.
SO YOU ARE WILL TO ACCEPT YOUR FAIT AS ISLAMIC TERRORIST DICTATE AS IT SAYS IN THE QURAN ?? HOW SILLY YOU ALL NEED SOME SOAP ORAPS OVER THERE GET YOUR MINDS OFF KILLING PEOPLE!!
2)Karachi is the most dangerous place in Pakistan. Too many things happen here, and life can be cheap. You do have places like Waristan , but these are remote hilly places where there are no so many people.
WELL SO LIFE IS CHEEP WHERE YOU LIVE WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT LET THE ISLAMIC TERRORIST WIN?? OH YEA YOU ARE A MULSUM??
Let me put it on record here today....the MMA will become one of the most dangerous political parties of the modern era. Ignore them at your own peril.
WE AINT YOU KEEP SENDING THEM AND WE KEEP KILLING THEM THE BIG PROBLEM IS YOU AINT FIGHTING THEM YOU ARE FEEDING THEM LET THEM STARVE!!
The Muslim world found itself left behind, through its own fault, the MMA is eroding the evolution of society, and at odds with the demands of reality as it exists in today’s world.
The MMA religious leaders, the self-proclaimed guardians of the bastion of Islam were marching in the streets of our cities protesting against sacrilegious acts committed against the Koran in a distant countyry but I wonder whether they are equal;ly comfortable when the murder of Muslims by Muslims is in their own homeland?
YEA AND WE ARE SPENDING GREAT WEALTH TO KEEP YOUR MONSTERS IN YOUR LANDS WHEN WILL YOU FIGHT THEM??
They have opened Pandora's box, the touch paper has been lit, now sit back and endure the fireworks.
Posted by: Naseem at May 31, 2005 09:40 AM
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDO, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM AMEN
PS
SO IT WOULD NOT BE A GOOD IDEA TO GIVE F16s TO PAKISTAN???
NOT GOOD TO PUT FIRE ANTS ON A BOAT TO YOUR HOME!!!
Carolyn2, Thanks.
Hope it helps.
Nazeem,
Is Saudi Arabia, and the Wahhabis taking over the mosques in Pakistan. They control most of them in the US. Right there, any hope for women's rights to work, vote and hold office are verboten. Are there any parties in Pakistan that are progressive AND popular with the people? I always have a hard time understanding how people who don't agree with the jihadists do not fight back but just become submissive to the draconian rules forced on them. Must be pretty frustrating. Speak out and you'll get your throat slashed.
Hamas refer to Jews as "pigs", because they know that it is easier to convince people to kill pigs than to kill humans.
As Geoff says, let's not go there. The war against jihad should be a war to save our humanity, not to destroy it. It's easy to scoff at the argument that we should not sink to the level of the enemy by behaving as they do. But seeing some of the rhetoric on this site has made me more convinced than ever that the danger is quite real. I've seen support for "mass deportation", "mass execution", and the ominous talk of Muslims as animals or a disease. I only hope that such attitudes are confined to "a tiny minority of extremists".
Viking5,
Good point.
Don't dehumanise the enemy.
Respect their humanity.
Don't call them names either.
And resist them like hell.
I always have a hard time understanding how people who don't agree with the jihadists do not fight back but just become submissive to the draconian rules forced on them.
reset,
Western culture inculcates individualism and assertion of one's rights. From young.
Muslim culture inculcates absolute obedience to authority, with harsh treatment for violaters. From young. And the use of violence to keep free spirits in check by the keepers-of-the-faith. In this culture you don't speak your mind, or go your own way. You follow. Only the mullah leads.
To a western mind, this is like another planet.
re: muslims as unthinking animals ...
John Palubiski is right. i wish he weren't. but i do think we need to "love our enemies" as he reminds. we have the right to be angry at them, given their hatred & the gross injustices they've perpetrated, but we need to make sure that our anger doesn't step over the line.
i am always impressed while watching "COPS" on tv how nice the officers are to the criminals. they still arrest them & will take them down pronto & hard if need be, but they're so professional.
that's what i think we need to be. statistically & historically i think we are on very safe ground condemning the muslim community and ideology in the harshest of terms, but i hope we never lose sight of the fact that it is fundamentally very sad that so many muslims leave the west no choice but to kill them. what a big fat waste of life, ours and theirs.
I wonder howmany of you have lived in close proximity to Muslims? Quite a few posters on this site sound as thuogh Islam is some sort of nightmare they witness from far away, and at most encounter on their computers when lurking in Muslim sites.
The real trouble with Islam is that it is a honey trap. Bear in mind that the majority of human beings are generally well-meaning and naturally lean towards peace and collaboration with their neighbours. I do not mean that human beings are saints, but that they would rather do the right thing, in however muddled a fashion, if it did not cost them too much. This is as true of those born in the Muslim cult as with any other.
To them, Islam shows a double face. In their ordinary life, it comes mainly as a bunch of stories and sayings of irrefutable and wholly sane benevolence, preaching the same virtues as any other religion - honesty, charity, truthfulness, sexual continence, respect for authority, respect for your neighbours. These are generally passed on in oral stories and teaching. They are not often from the Qur'an, whose body of ethical teaching (even wanting to separate it from the political and personal outburst) is thin and unimpressive.
In fact, the Qur'an is to most Muslims a kind of unknown idol. It is treated with the highest respect and incense is offered to it, but it is not read or thought about. They have an idea that in it all the various traditional teachings about decency and goodness which they have been inculcated have their ultimate validation. This is against the facts, which tell that the ethical teaching that has become attached to Islam to the point of BEING Islam in the minds of many is simply an expression of the ordinary sense and sanity of mankind, coming back to the surface even in the corrupted intellectual environment of Islam.
In effect, these people thank Islam for the moral sense and teaching that they themselves, and their fathers and grandfathers, have taken to it. This is both a compliment to mankind, and a very sad fact.
What is sad about it is that it continuously reinforces their loyalty to Islam. Because they see Islam as the source of their moral principles, therefore they approve of anything which reinforces or expands it. And therefore they will not seriously question the one commandment which seriously and centrally does exist in Islam - to impose it all over the world by any means necessary.
The moral teaching, which is really secondary and not essential to Islam, becomes their reason to adhere to it; and their reason to approve - even as their feelings are perhaps troubled or hurt - of the violence and aggression implicit in their faith.
This is the problem with the Shukris of this world. They honestly believe that their religion stands for decency and morality, and when others point out the violence, deception and power-lust that lie at its heart, they feel that it and they are misunderstood. Indeed, they would never murder an innocent or kill a child. But their commitment to this deceptive, two-faced religion leads them to approve of and defend those who do.
Islam is a negative factor in their lives. Among the mass of Muslims, it encourages those who would fit in badly in any culture - the nerds and the thugs, the unemployable and the fanatical, the sexually frustrated, the immature, the corrupt, anyone who hates others and himself - to indulge their worst sides; and among the majority which does not share their corrupt passions, it fosters not only a crazy sympathy for these murderous misfits, but a positive sense of guilt that they are not as committed to Islam, not willing to be martyrs.
It has been said, plenty of times, that Muslims in Britain have higher unemployment rates, lower literacy, and higher rates of criminality, than any other group. Behind these numbers is the reality that a good few Muslims do make it in our society and fit in. Without Muslim doctors, for instance, Britain's National Health Service would collapse. Likewise its school system - where Muslims of both sexes teach, not religious studies or history, but mathematics, the sciences, and other useful subjects in most of which there is a national shortage of teachers. But the numbers make clear that Islam is a factor holding back the group as a whole, weighing it down and shutting it off from peaceful and constructive intercourse with others.
I have had plenty of Muslim friends - sane, decent, even with a sense of humour. And yet, even the best of them were wholly the prisoners of the deadly Muslim political mythology we all know about; one could not talk about such things as the founding of Pakistan, Hindu civilization, or Israel, without coming across the most unmitigated hypocrisy and falsehood calmly, even politely taken as fact.
Islam is a parasite of the mind, taking the best of man and corrupting it into the worst of results - not only violence and carnage, but self-regard, illogic, unreason, falsehood confidently taken as fact, complicity taken not as a sin but as a virtue, ignorance that knows nothing better than itself, and the slow and steady erosion of the very sense of morality and respect on which it builds its appeal to its followers. It is a corruption, but as with all sins, it is very difficult to see how to get rid of it.
Paolo,
Thoughtful, lucid, writeup.
Thanks for the light.
Since you're at street-level in UK, what is the general British take on the muslim immigrants?
Do they have a sense of an impending Eurabia?
Yes, Paolo. Excellent post. To be a "moderate" Muslim seems to require the construction of the most amazing intellectual firewall between ideals falsely attributed to Islam (which as a religion emulates obsessive compulsive disorder "OCD") and the facts on the ground, historic and current.
Paolo
Thank you. Your assessment explains and puts into words things I have often pondered.
Skidd - as the Romans used to say, TOT UIRI, TOT SENTENTIAE: as many people, so many opinions. In fact, a whole lot more, because a lot of people - I would say the majority - are in two or more minds. There is generally a widespread but inconsistent sense of unease about the apparent bloody-mindedness and unteachability of Muslims both near and far. Nobody likes it when people are spotted on British streets howling anti-Western slogans or displaying by every possible means their lack of affection for their mother countries.
On the other hand, there is no fear of an Islamic takeover or threat to national identity; Muslims are a few more than a million in a country of nearly sixty million people, and are highly fragmented. George Galloway may have managed to get himself publicity and the not inconsiderable emoluments and privileges of a MP, but one MP, in British politics, counts for nothing. In real politics, he will hardly be noticed. He is a thoroughly discredited character, detested by everyone on the left, who has only managed to get his seat thanks to the peculiar demographics of one highly untypical constituency.
It is at the local level that the burden of Muslim aggression is felt. In Galloway's stomping grounds, the East End of London and in a few Northern cities there is a strong feeling, which has occasionally led to rioting, that the Muslims are being favoured on such issues as housing. In some boroughs, the Asian aptitude for forming political networks has effectively delivered control of local politics to a group of local bosses, with a more or less thin coating of Labour or other party identity.
No, on the whole, the British do not worry about being in any way swamped or overwhelmed by the Muslim population. Their concern is rather with the unwillingness of this minority to integrate and their apparent facility for all kinds of violence. Newspaper writers (the United Kingdom's lowest lifeform, somewhat unfavourably compared to pimps and drugs dealers) have more or less given up trying to frighten the public with tales of ocean waves of dark-skinned aliens "swamping" Britain, and switched their attention to the much more credible topic of hatred and religious fanaticism.
Paolo,
Thanks for the TOT UIRI, TOT SENTENTIAE tour and your considered prose.
It's good to hear that Britain will remain British. And the muslim issue is a gnat on the butt (pardon my french).
What about population projections? Is the native British population sub-replacement and the muslim fertility rate several times higher as is generally read for Europe?
If this is the case would a muslim majority in Britain be an eventual possibility?
Skidd: White British population growth is slightly higher than the norm in Europe. This is not altogether good news, since the percentage of illegitimate and teen-age pregnancies are quite extraordinary. This is reinforced by growing East European immigration - the by now classic phenomenon of the "Polish plumber". (This is happening throughout Europe: even in Italy, whose geography exposes it to Muslim immigration to a larger degree than almost any other European country, the largest and fastest growing religious minority is not, contrary to propaganda, Islam, but, according to the latest official figures, Eastern Orthodox Christianity.) And with few exceptions, the second and third generations of Muslim families settled in England tend to imitate native growth rates: families of more than six or seven are rare. While I suspect that the undocumented Muslim immigration is larger than official sums allow - there do seem to be an awful lot of brown-skinned young people in London speaking English with strongly foreign accents and haunting call centres and internet cafes - it is highly unlikely that differentials in population growth should lead a white population of fifty-plus million to be outnumbered, in any foreseeable future, by a Muslim population of less than two million.
The countries that are seriously endangered are the small ones such as the Netherlands, or thinly populated ones such as Sweden, which have adopted immigration policies no different from those of the big boys - Germany (80 million), Italy, France and Britain (60 million each) or the US (300 million) - when their population was and remains a mere fraction and their growth rate is even lower.
I've seen ur tendency to merge the immigration issue and Islamic problem into one. Many people have absolutely no problems with illeterate East European immigrants but we won't take Indian graduates. Yeah yeah NHS is crumbling but we want no brown skinned docs in UK. Until i got my citizenship last year, whereever i travelled on my Indian passport i was frisked as if i might be carrying a bomb underneath my shirt. Immigrants are no problem as long as their skins are white. Moreover Paolo Asian is very generalised term. I may be a Hindu but on streets of Britain we (Asians) are all Pakis anyway.
Quote: wonder howmany of you have lived in close proximity to Muslims?
I used to live in Haji Ali area of Bombay during the troubles of 1992. I was first indoctrinated into hindutva as a 5 year old after witnessing Momed mobs buring three women alive during that roller coaster January of 1993....
Paolo,
Thank you.
I feel much better for the future of Britain, that we'll still have a British Britain to go to, by and large.
I wonder if you are familiar with Bernard Lewis, Bat Ye'or, and Oriana Fallaci on this issue - muslim immigration in Europe and her future. All three paint the same picture. Lewis is unshakeable that Europe will be Islamic by the end of the century, at the latest. He does not think we can do anything much about it. Bat Ye'or describes how we got to this point, and doesn't think there is much we can do to avert Eurabia either, since demographics is destiny. Ms Fallaci details the present day islamization of Europe and thinks if we don't act now, we'll lose western civilization. To the muslims.
I wonder what you think about this.
I feel it is a planet-class tragedy, if we lose the beautiful richness of western civilization to a barbaric sterile miserable mullahtocracy by the end of the century. And all because we don't make enough babies. And are too polite to defend western culture.
Vikrant_Camberleykar: After fifty years of Communism and compulsory universal education, the one thing that Eastern Europeans never are is illiterate. Please do not air your personal resentments in such a manner, showing that you do not know what you are talking about. And bear in mind that to Christians like me, Hindutva means missionaries butchered in their cars and villages of converts terrorized by machete-welding goons - in other words, it means Hindus behaving like the worst kind of Muslim. I do know something about India, as it happens; I studied Sanskrit in one of Europe's leading universities, I have dozens of Hindu friends, and though I have now lost all my Sanskrit, twenty years ago it was good enough to translate passages from the Gita, including the eleventh yoga.
The fact that non-European immigrants are treated unlike European does not necessarily have to do with ignorance. Integration is necessarily harder with people from a partly or wholly alien culture. Just now, all Britain is horrified by a court case in which a family of black Africans from Angola has been charged with the torture and attemtped murder of one of their own children, a girl of eight, who had been charged with being a witch. This is more than incomprehensible to the average Briton, but makes sense in particular tribal African contexts, where witchcraft is a kind of substance one is born with and which works evil without any need for conscious will. Hindus come to Britain with a culture that includes such things as caste and the regular abuse of young daughters-in-law, which are unacceptable to the West. None of this is on the same level as the Muslim lust for universal power, but do not tell me that they will not affect the way the British see immigrants.
BAt Ye'or carries a violent prejudice against the continent of Europe that makes much of her work almost unreadable to me; it is like, pardon my saying so, the worst of the posters on this site - the people who describe Europe as a snake's nest of Socialists and anti-Americans and declare themselves glad to see it destroyed. Oriana Fallaci, with all due respect - she is a fellow countrywoman, a brave person, and one Hell of a writer. What she is not is a systematic writer. She does does not even claim to be; she is the first to tell us that she understands nothing about economics, nothing about sociology, nothing about statistics. What she is is, an emotional person confronting horrors that the average person prefers to sweep under the carpet. In doing this she has done useful work, but I simply do not accept her projections. They have no authority, and depend on the trebly dubious assumption that immigration from the Muslim countries will become and remain predominant among all the strains of immigration to Europe; that immigrants to Europe will not adopt European ways (which are largely a matter of socio-economic pressure - not that Europeans do not want children, but that they cannot afford them - and clearly the same pressure will apply to anyone born and residing in Europe); and that Muslim immigrants will remain a solid block, impenetrable by the influences of the society they live in. Think about it and you will see that none of these assumptions shows any sign of inevitability about it. As for Bernard Lewis, I have not read his writings on this particular issue, though I am familiar with his SEMITES AND ANTI-SEMITES, so I do not feel that I can answer whatever it is that he said. But he does not live in Europe, and whatever his knowledge of the Muslim world, I very much doubt whether he knows more of us than the average American.
Hindus come to Britain with a culture that includes such things as caste and the regular abuse of young daughters-in-law
As far as i know casteism is a dying custom in India itself. We may have had some horrible customs but we have chucked them out. If you are under impression that casteism is still live and kicking then you should really check on your information source. Now abuse of daughters-in-law is not a fault of religion or culture it's due to pure materialism.
Hindutva means missionaries butchered in their cars and villages of converts terrorized by machete-welding goons
This is a gross exgagerration. To date only ONE missionary has been murdered in India an incident which was condemned by all Indians.
You dont understand Hindutva do you? Hindutva is a reaction to Islam. Ofcourse in west it is lagely discredited by media but i've seen it on ground level. It's helping Hindus help themselves the provide aid without shoe strings attached
As for that comments about "villages of converts terrorized by machete-welding" is a big fat lie. Have you ever given a thought to how coercive and underhand methods are applied to covert Indians to Chritianity. Have you given a thought to how much money you people donate to convert India. Hindutva is assertion of Hinduness. We are tired of gtting kicked around in our own country. . Three of Indian states have been converted into sepratist war zones because they have a Chritian majority. Those terrorists convert tribals to Xianity in order to cut their ties to Indian culture. It's a no brainer where their funds come from.
If you say you have studied Sanskrit than you must be aware of Ekam Sat. My religion allows me to worship any God. I can pray to Christ. But why the hell do i have to convert to a foreign religion, change my language,dressing customs,eating habits and adopt a name which i can barely pronounce. Benny Hinn has cheek to come to India and declare that we follow a false religion.
As for the matter of integration we Indians atleast try everything we can. Almost all of us speak fluent English, dress in western fashion. Moreover we brought many good customs to UK too. Can you tell me:
Why Indian pupils excel in GSCE and A levels?
Why 70% of them seem to have graduate degrees?
Why dopout levels are low in Indians?
We've brought strong family values to UK.
You'd rarely find Indian pupils smoking,drinking,doing drugs or getting pregnant. Your view are one sided and bordering outright racism. Could you give me neutral source for your anti-Hindutva comments.
Just as you say East Europeans are not illeterate i'd like to add Hindus are NOT casteist. British Hindus dont have time for such stupidity. Casteism is highlighted by people only to make Hindus look bad. Do you know that Indian Christians also have castes??? Do you have any evidence of casteism in UK??? under priviledged Hindus get 30% reservations in all insitutions in India. Dont tell me your news source about British Hindus is BNP website. Moreover you treat East Europeans like your brothers but 10 years on i'm still treated like a foreigner here. But surely you'd agree they've created law & order problem here. This is your double talk on one hand you oppose immigrants but on other hand white immigrants automatically become British natives.
Paolo,
Fallaci is not an academic. She writes what she sees, hears, and thinks. Like the journalist she is. Eye-witness, in-your-face reports, powered by a critical mind, a gutsy soul, and words formed without fear or favor.
She sees muslim immigrants overrruning Europe, turning a decent first-world European culture into a barbaric third-world one. And in the process, losing its institutions, freedoms, even history to Islam. She cites specific.
You said the immigrant population may eventually integrate and have low birth rates like the native population, after they inhabit the same socio-economic environment long enough. Possible. However, we could be underestimating the weight of muslim culture on these issues.
Islam pressures muslims not to integrate, and have high birthrates.
A European immigrant would behave like a European and eventually assimilate into the native culture. I won't count on a muslim immigrant to behave like a European immigrant. He would behave more like someone from his own muslim culture; that is, no integration, many kids, even in poverty, and a lower standard of living is not an issue. Income, though, is pretty much a non-issue given Europe's generous dole for the unemployed and the poor. There is a muslim in the UK with 2 wives and 12 kids, all on social welfare, comfortably fed by the State.
So, Oriana's projection may have some substance after all. No?
She is furious because all this is allowed to happen by the PC authorities. By consent of the victim. Western establishment - government, media, institutions - will not oppose the muslims decimating western culture piece by piece, and in fact colluding with them.
Still don't see Eurabia in the works?
Noticed that you read Sanskrit. Cool. Vedic lore interests me. Does it lead back to Sumeria and the origin of mankind? They seem to have some advanced technology, such as vimanas. I thought there would be technology relics in Harappa and Mohenjo-daro - anything, a wrench, a vimana engine part, pieces of machinery. But I don't hear anything. Are there such relics? I would imagine that a vibrant trillion-item civilization would leave some remnants behind. Not clay jars, but items indicative of their advanced technology; just as archaeologists 4300 years from now digging at our city sites would find the place littered with pieces of our technological life: handphones, spectacles, zippers, coke cans, or hit pay dirt when they strike a dump site.
Skidd please dont display your ignorance of Vedas. They've absolutely nothing to do with Harrapa culture. Hindus come to Britain with a culture that includes such things as caste and the regular abuse of young daughters-in-law As if your culture has no faults.Isn't that stereotyping people. I take it as a racist comment. Admit it u r just jealous of the success of Indian immigrants. Who's Britains richest man??? An Indian immigrant.
Skidd please dont display your ignorance of Vedas. They've absolutely nothing to do with Harrapa culture. Hindus come to Britain with a culture that includes such things as caste and the regular abuse of young daughters-in-law As if your culture has no faults.Isn't that stereotyping people. I take it as a racist comment. Admit it u r just jealous of the success of Indian immigrants. Who's Britains richest man??? An Indian immigrant.
Vikrant: if you want me to believe that casteism is on the decline in India, you may want to give me some statistics about people marrying outside their caste. (I mean Jati, not Varna.) My personal observation and the observation of people I trust - including Indians - say the opposite.
As for Hindutva, one man's pride is another man's oppression. People do not turn to Christianity or Islam or Buddhism for no reason, but because they felt oppressed by the Brahmins and those castes I have personally heard one Hindu scholarship student in Oxford call "the kings in our village". (I believe that, in his case, they were Thakurs.) For the same reason tribals refuse to integrate on Hindutva terms. The vile and repeated desecration of the monument to Dr.Ambedkar in the city now renamed Mumbai is evidence enough of what Hindutva stands for.
As for the persecution of Christian converts, your very words show the spirit of hostility and hatred with which conversion is viewed. In a country where the privileged castes (and those with well-placed political patrons) have all the knives by the handle, you cannot tell me that a few Christians are such a threat to a colossal socio-political power structure that continues to raise expensive temples and fill them with worshippers. You simply hate to be told that you are wrong, whether or not the person who says so has any power. So much for openness to viewpoints other than yours.
Finally as to the oppression of daughters-in-law. You cannot deny that it happens, and whether or not it has anything to do with religion does not matter: it is part of the culture of your country, in the anthropological sense of the word. No other country in the world has several jails, each holding thousands of inmates, dedicated exclusively to holding old women found guilty of burning or torturing their daughters-in-law to death over disputes over dowrwy.
Skidd, whatever the pressure Islam may pose on immigrants not to integrate, Britain and Italy are not even close to having a large Islamic minority, let alone a majority. What is likely to happen, as has already happened in France, is the development of closed and violent ghetti where white men don't go and even pairs of policemen go in pairs. This will be extremely bad for public order (in Italy, the viciousness of Albanian organized crime has scared even our own home-grown Mafia) and generally worsen the climate, but I see no prospect whatever of a Muslim takeover in my lifetime. And as you asked my opinion as being street level in Italy and Britain (I used to live in Bethnal Green, George Galloway's new constituency), you might want to consider it. I do not think I diminish the significance of Muslim insularity and violence when I say that, outside weird spots like Sweden, they stand no chance of affecting the larger society in any way except exasperation.
Paolo India is a huge country. It is like Europe in a sense. I donot know about Thakurs because they hail from Uttar Pradesh and Bihar. I can only talk about Marathi culture. We'd saints from 11th century working to bring down casteism. I can assure you that there is no casteism in Maharashtra atleast. As for people marrying in their castes only, it's a matter of personal choice (same way as mixed race relations are), but they are free to marry with other castes. Let us dwell into why people convert, why is there any need to convert. You talk about casteist opression. But even conversion doesnt bring any relief to them. Indian Christians also have a sort of caste system. Casteism probably only ocurs in remte villages of India but to say that British Hindus bring casteism to Britain is a wrong statement most of them are educated,graduates etc. Dowry cases are recorded in almost every Indian community. The reason why majority cases are Hindu because Hindus form a majority in India. I dont nderstand the logic of asking people to convert to some foreign form of worship in 21st century we must put all these differences aside. I'm a Nastika btw. How are we supposed to deal with the enormous resources Vatican is using to convert Indians. History has proved that by converting from Hinduism or Buddhism one loses a sense of belonging to India. Semitic religions must recognise the existence of other religions. They are the ones in need of reform ours has already started. You people never take note of how far Hindus have gone to dismantle caste system. Untouchability is a history, as material culture has taken hold people have begun to forget caste differences. Maharashtra actually had a Dalit CM recently. All eductaional, governmental institutes have a strict reservations for Dalits. We're trying everything to reach out to them. But i've seen cases where people have converted to Xianity for a few thousand rupees and back to hinduism again. As for your Indian info source i believe him to be SC/ST but my friend every coin has two sides. Dalits must also forgive an forget the past. There's tendency among them to regard any savarana as an evil person. Marathis atleast have progressed to a level where casteism is minimal ( i.e it's only taken into account while getting educational institutions). Morever the number of Dalits who've actually converted is minimal. Most of the converts are Dravidians or Tribals who are traditionally opposed to imposition of North Indian culture upon them. You say that you have studied Sanskrit and Vedas , then my friend you should have viewed Hinduism with admiration. Hinduism is a vast array of great ideas which you'd only appreciate when you dont look at it thriugh the prism of "caste,cow and idolatry". Dont dig up dirt on my culture and my philosophy, i can dig up enough on yours. To tell you truth British culture is rapidly degenrating into yobs,tobbaco,sex and booze. Paolo i've been racially abused more than a dozen times, enough to make me hate every white out there. But just like caste, racism is human virtue born out of extreme superiority complex...
Vikrant, this conversation has gone far enough. This is not a pro- or anti-Hindutva site, and you can take your nationalism with you to the grave for all I care. I will only say one thing, and then I am done. I believe in the Christian faith, and I will do everything legitimate to defend and promote it, because I consider it to be true. I have no interest whatever in any kind of religion that had anything to do with national identity; if I did, I would be sacrificing oxen to Jupiter Optimus Maximus et omnes divos urbis Romae. Religion is not about nationality: it is about truth. Period.
Well, Chicken jihad. What a nice name. Funny isn't it? Anyways, don't get offended guys, and gals. This is your friend's daughter. :D Just doing this to annoy my dad. Seeya!