Jihad Watch Board Vice President Hugh Fitzgerald assesses the current scene and makes some foreign policy recommendations:
"I would blow myself up if I can't feed my kids." -- from this articleThe Egyptian government is corrupt. Egyptian leaders batten on the $2 billion in American aid, not to mention whatever they manage to wheedle out of the Europeans. But the poor, who exist everywhere, or others who are not poor but outraged at the corruption, do not merely say that Mubarak and company are "corrupt." That is what non-Muslims would say. No -- they say that Mubarak and his Family-and-Friends fellow thieves are "infidels" or in the pockets of "infidels" or in league with the "infidels" or un-Islamic. In other words, all discontent, all political life, can be reduced to the categories that Islam so conveniently provides, and the two biggest categories of all are those of the Believer and the Infidel.
It is no different in Saudi Arabia. Are the thousands of "princes" of the Al-Saud family helping themselves to the country's oil wealth? Of course they are. Is it sickening? Of course it is. But the problem is seen, by those sickened by that appropriation, and the decadent pursuits (which are not "decadent" only in Islamic terms) of those princes is seen as demonstrating the "un-Islamic" nature of the Al-Saud.
Muslims view the world through the prism of Islam. It provides a Total Explanation of the Universe, which covers every possible detail of life. It would be impossible to find a category of injustice that cannot be defined in terms of Islam. Corruption is unjust, and therefore, for those who wish to fight it, it must necessarily be un-Islamic. On the other hand, spreading Islam, fighting the Infidels if they resist, and treating them terribly according to the principles of the sharia when and where they submit or are conquered, is also Islamic.
So what should we do? Those now making policy seem to want to believe any number of things, none of them true. Some want to believe that Islam is fundamentally decent, save for the fundamentalists, whose definition keeps changing and expanding -- from a "tiny handful of extremists" to "the Wahhabis" to the "Wahhabis and the Salafists" to “10-15% of all Muslims” to...well, the latest effort is to convince us that there is "war going on within Islam itself" (nonsense -- there are some who are secret or open secularists, but they are hardly making war on the others. They are just trying to survive as best they can, and to stop the further encroachments of Islam where it has temporarily been constrained, as in Turkey under Kemalist rulers, or even in Iraq under the Ba'athists).
There is no "war for the soul of Islam." There is the 1350-year war of Islam against, not the West -- but all the rest. It can die down, when the wherewithal for conducting the war diminishes. It can die down, when there are no triumphs to swell hearts and encourage the troops. It can die down, as money and access to arms diminish, or Muslims lose the freedom to move to Infidel lands to conduct, behind enemy lines, the kind of non-military warfare that undermines Infidel morale and even spreads Islam among the most vulnerable types within Infidel society: the economically marginal; the psychically marginal; the innocent, young and desperate prisoners, with many in both groups searching for An Answer; and the spoiled and confused flotsam and jetsam of Western social collapse, such as John Walker Lindh. There is no "war within Islam." There is only the age-old, and endless war of Islam, using whatever instruments it possesses (and military combat is only one of those instruments).Unless this is understood, Infidels will no doubt keep transferring the already hideously large sums being given to OPEC (with its oligopolistic pricing, and seeming paralysis by the American government to tax gasoline and to support a crash program to develop all other sources, and supplies, of energy). This not being understood, Infidels will continue to supply aid to Egypt, Pakistan, the "Palestinians" and all other Musim groups or countries that do not have oil revenues (and of course whom the rich oil countries somehow are not expected to support -- that is apparently the job of the so-called "rich" Western world, which means Western taxpayers who, compared to the rich of the Arabian peninsula, are on the brink of starvation).
Those who view the universe through the prism of Islam will always find a way to blame Infidels, or to regard those they resent in their own societies as Infidels. Let us not do anything to encourage that feeling. The Egyptian government is corrupt in every way. Continuing to give it aid is nonsensical -- in every way.The best strategy remains the same:
1) Limit the ability of Muslim states or groups to acquire major weaponry.
2) Work feverishly to diminish the OPEC revenues of the Muslim countries.
3) Work in Europe and in North America to educate people about the tenets of Islam, the attitudes and atmospherics of Islam, and the history of both Jihad-conquest, and of the imposition of dhimmi status on subjugated non-Muslims, over 1350 years.
4) Support those in the Western world who are keenly aware of what is going on, and able to articulate the problem.
5) Do nothing that would inadvertently dampen the natural fissures within the Islamic world, between Arabs and non-Arabs, between Sunni and Shia. The obvious example is Iraq, where a thousand legitimate excuses for leaving now present themselves -- and should be used to bid adieu, always reserving the right, of course, to supply one side (the Kurds, for example) or another, in order to promote our own interests -- and not those of Islam.
6) By denying further aid, by embarking on a course of action that will ensure not only that the price of oil never goes down (which would preserve OPEC's market share, and delay for too long the move away from fossil fuels), but that self-taxation will take away much of the power of OPEC to collect all the profit for itself (the more we tax the oil, the more the Saudis, the only swing producers, have to worry about raising the price further themselves -- and this has been true and might have been acted on, had we understood Saudi Arabia, back in 1973), and by doing nothing that will hearten or encourage the forces of Jihad anywhere, and finally, by ending Muslim migration to dar al-Harb, and preventing the use of foreign (chiefly but not exclusively Saudi) money to promote Islam by funding mosques and madrasas (but no alternative mosques, funded by Infidel governments, should be supported -- let the locals pay for their own housese of worship, or not have them at all), we can save ourselves.
Again, here is a sentence that needs to be memorized. Its truth cannot be denied. And that sentence is as follows:
"The presence of large numbers of Muslims within the lands of the Infidels has created a situation for the indigenous Infidels that is far more unpleasant, expensive, and physically dangerous than it would be without the presence of large numbers of Muslims."There are not many people in France, Italy, Spain, England, Germany, Belgium, Sweden, Denmark and other places who could deny the truth of that statement. Even when they do not know quite what to do, even if they are among those who "hope" that they can "integrate" many of the Muslims, they all know that a terrible mistake was made in allowing them to migrate in into their countries in the first place.
Save for the hirelings -- those on the take from Arabs, the band of ex-diplomats, ex-intelligence agents, estate agents selling mansions and messuage to assorted rich Gulf Arabs, journalists, academic recipients of Saudi, U.A.E., and Kuwaiti largesse -- everyone else (save for the wandering tribe of antisemites, who find themselves quite naturally on the side of Islam, even if they don't know a thing about it or give a damn) knows that that sentence is true.
Guys:
Lately there has been A LOT of troll feeding going on at JW. Most of us know that this is a total waste of time and effort but occasionally the provocation is so egregious it can't be avoided.
I'd like to point out that no muslim poster to this site (with the probable exception of Jsingleton and Thomas Haidon, who are anti-jihad) has ever been able to present a cogent, logical, substantive, well-reasoned argument that was on-topic and responded appropriately to a challenege. (As you all know, critical thinking skills are discouraged in islam and are indeed anathema to the true "believer".) The best they can do is resort to ad hominems, tu quoque and other meaningless tactics, always the same ones that they get from their same old tired websites, as well as post long cut-and-pastes that are also from those same and now-all-too-familiar (yawn) websites, which most of us regulars just skip right on over without reading since we've seen it all so many times before.
I'm not saying that a response or two isn't called for from time to time, but you troll-feeders (and you know who you are) are allowing the muslims to hijack entire threads and establish their OWN agendas, diverting us from Robert's and our own. Do you really want to give them that kind of influence or platform?
I suggest that if you can't keep yourself from endlessly engaging these trolls (which only encourages them, as they are always involved in either jihad or da'wa), you pony up at the donations link on the JW homepage to compensate Spencer for the bandwidth that they waste and abuse.
muslim trolls are drawn to this site like flies to a sh@t-pile, but that doesn't mean we have to buy into their efforts at manipulation and their stale, tired rhetoric. It's just getting so OLD.
BTW, the trolls hardly ever visit DW on a regular and consistent basis, so for those of you just as fed up with the infestation as I am, consider spending more time over there.
I plan to post this message more than once to get the message out. Sorry for the repetition, but it simply had to be said - AGAIN.
CGW
Hugh,
Great article!
Disengage, marginalize, constrain and contain.
Sounds like a winning strategy to me.
Thanks for all your sound and profound insights. Washington would do well to listen.
Rebecca
Hugh - There is SO much Truth to your aticle.
How can one relate that to decent people who don't know that deep down inside - they don't really belong to allah - just because they are decent.
I can share the experience of knowing what it is to have a battle within your own self - when it comes to wrestling with the spirit within. Don't know if I'm making sense - but there are those who I believe will know what I'm talking about.
I broke free of every so called 'Christian' house on this earth - and it took ten years of agonizing quetions within myself - along with the fear of being on the right course - concerning God.
For those who don't fear God - this may make no sense.
But for those who do fear God - I know it makes a lot of sense.
Anyway Hugh - GREAT article.
As we are ever so more called to defend our values, and our beliefs as we confront the aggressive Ideology of Islam, we need to stand up and clearly recognise the differences between us and who we are at every turn. This is why I believe that it is so important for us to study and understand these differences that Robert Spencer's Jihad Watch Forum along with Hugh fitzgerald, Bat Ye-Or,Daniel Pipes, David Horowitz Front page and many more so aptly bring with great insight to what is going on around us on this shrinking planet. " If we can;t define ourselves, then we cannot defend ourselves"
" If we can;t define ourselves, then we cannot defend ourselves"
How shall we define ourselves Mackie?
How does 'the enemy' define us - would be a better question
I second that Hugh, this is your best, you seem to be getting better with each article.
Beth I understand your sentiments, but when I read this:
for those who don't fear God - this may make no sense.
But for those who do fear God - I know it makes a lot of sense.
I heard a Muslim speaking. They say the same thing.
For those who don't fear Allah - this may make no sense.
But for those who do fear Allah - I know it makes a lot of sense.
There are no winners in the battle for god, just a lot of blood, suffering and loss.
Sorry if I offend, but if anything that should be obvious.
Beth, I do understand. Especially since I could never substitute 'allah' for God. It is not the same thing, not even on the same level and never will be.
'The battle for God'
Interesting term, that. I see over 18,000 references of that term, in conjunction with Karen Armstrong- one of the Last people we need to see making such an argument.
Beth, I saw your site, but no way to contact you. Wondered if you had any of these articles:
http://www.nationalreview.com/kurtz/kurtz200505020944.asp
http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=17957
http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=17927
http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=17958
One thing that was not taken into account in an above argument- even if All religion was abolished, new ones would pop up. One also has to watch out for organizations trying to create new ones, such as the Gaia movement... and I very much think the replacements would be Far worse than the current crop. One only needs look at human fallability to see that.
Giaour - No offense taken - not at all.
And you bring up a VERY GOOD point - you really do:
for those who don't fear God - this may make no sense.
But for those who do fear God - I know it makes a lot of sense.
I heard a Muslim speaking. They say the same thing.
For those who don't fear Allah - this may make no sense.
But for those who do fear Allah - I know it makes a lot of sense.
I see what you are getting at - and I will share 'the solution to it' - but first know,
I was speaking about an anguish that ANY religion can cause. No doubt BOTH Muslims AND Christians have experienced them.
Questioning oneself deeply - Am I on the right path? Am I understanding this the way God wants me to. Some of those who take God seriously - no matter what religion - know the anguish I'm speaking about.
But - on the argument that my God is right and your god is wrong?
That is why I give the words from the mouths of the lions.
If allah speaks defending the murderers called 'terrorists' then why not use his own words to show everyone that the 'terrorists' are right and the 'Moderates' are wrong?
And if any Muslim thinks that he can use that same method using the New Testament - he's in for a MAJOR SHOCK!
There are NO New Testament Scriptures that allow humans to hurt anyone....wiping out the popular argument in the name of 'Crusader'
I was referring to the fact that I know some of things I present can be very very hard...and I was sharing that I know - from experience.
Beth, I do understand. Especially since I could never substitute 'allah' for God. It is not the same thing, not even on the same level and never will be.
Gary?
Jhn 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
I guess it depends on how much power you give letters that men use.
One thing that was not taken into account in an above argument- even if All religion was abolished, new ones would pop up. One also has to watch out for organizations trying to create new ones, such as the Gaia movement... and I very much think the replacements would be Far worse than the current crop. One only needs look at human fallability to see that.
Gary? Was is it - no one can understand - that the New Testament condemns those who want to force their own beliefs on another?
If you want to blame the 'Christianities' of this world - How can I help? Let me help you - I sure do have a lot that I can offer to support your argument.
But what does that have to do with the teachings of Jesus - in that He came to serve - not rule?
You've got me a bit puzzled, Beth. I'm on your side of this. Not sure what I missed...
And time has run out for this evening, we're out while the weather is still grand here.
Gary I believe I misunderstood you - I apologize.
I thought you were trying to hand me the famous 'argument of the left' - who fear [and not without merit] devout Christianity.
As far as the word 'God' though - go back and look at what I shared. If given enough thought - I think you'll like it.
Beth, I saw your site, but no way to contact you.
Yes - I was wondering about what do with that. Should I set up a board or not. I wrestle with that often.
I don't fear for my life Gary - I've seen all of this world I care to - but I have young children. And my wish is that I at least see them off - till they can take care of themselves - so I worry about the fanatics who can't handle the truth, who only know how to settle scores the way allah has taught them to.
Anyway - I'm sorry Gary
The Muslim Brotherhood clearly sees democracy as a means to power, as Hitler did in the 1930s.
The Bush administration is caught in the incoherence of its own policies, and is rendered blind from the inability to clearly articulate who the enemies of the United States truly are.
Number 3 is the big one. Understanding Islam is a pre-requisite for intelligent action. You guys have been at it for years and decades. I hope people reading the messages on this website spread the word, link to the site (as I do), and talk in a rational and patient manner to people we know and meet.
I mentioned in the past that I see parallels between the denial and blindness of some of our (ecumenical) conservative friends, on the one hand, and the denial and blindness of the left-liberals to communism in the 1930s, on the other hand. I review that latter on my website and the parallels are striking. The left in the 1930s just couldn’t believe that communism could be bad. Conservatives, or at least too many of them, just can’t believe a religion can be bad.
Keep up the good work.
Jason Pappas
http://libertyandculture.blogspot.com/
Beth, in respect to your postings about NT and OT, may I say for my part that I have no problems at all with your position: I have very little belief indeed that you or your religion would tie me to a stake or decapitate me for not believing as you do. Therein lies one of the other differences between you and 'Brownfinger'; she hates all not of her religion (and race, apparently, which is really nice) and seems to me she'd gladly kill us all in the name of her unproven god, whereas you'd leave off at preaching to us. The latter is fine and no breach of rights; the former, of course, is not fine, and represents a sick and ailing worldview. And, moreover, I find your (Christian) version more believable than at least one of the alternatives. I like reading about Christian theology; I find it immensely deep and retaining still the mystical.
Then again, I do turn water hoses on Jehovah's Witnesses - God's little pyramid scheme, indeed.
So be of good cheer! for one, having lit a lamp, does not hide it under a bushel basket, so that it's light may not be seen.
Moreover, that would be one hell of a fire hazard.
Imam Geoff
I don't give a hoot about what you believe in, if you believe in the Muppets or Donald Duck, bow to a Moon- god or to a nail in a plank: Just leave me alone!
Now you all say:
No can do!
Because your BS only works if you find followers!
If nobody follows = no cult! There simply is no cult! Clear?
While I defend your right to preach & proselytize, to argue for free speech & even 'tolerate' a pest like Brownie-dildo, somehow I don't need Christianity pushed in my face, DON'T!
Let me live my live and leave me in peace! Got it?
(Beth: I am your ally, but I'm also your foe= Islam is our common enemy, intolerance is the end of tolerance, but your believes are not mine, so don't push too much...)
Giaour,
An important point: Allah is not the Creator of the universe: it is a pagan deity, with origins in the pre-islamic moon-god.
I agree with Beth.
Who fears Allah --the moon-god-- is a potential enemy; who does not fear G-d is clueless; who fears God is a potential ally.
Then again, I do turn water hoses on Jehovah's Witnesses - God's little pyramid scheme, indeed.
Oh Geoff - have I got a GOOD ONE for you!!!!
I think you'll like this.
They came knocking on my door.
Now - you can imagine - being the talkative and 'interested in everything' person that I am - my neighbors all know me.
They came to my door - and I said - HELLO!!! So nice to meet you - PLEASE - come on in.
We sat at my table for what I would consider to be a very short time for Jehovah's Witnesses - and I opened the Bible - and pointed to about 5 Scriptures. [They are a KNOCK_OUT - litterally - for those who don't like the REAL truth - lols]
Anyways - my naighbors all want to know those Scriptures - because the Jehovah Witnesses always pass Beth's house - but not theirs.
Joel:
Why should anyone live in fear?
". . .there are some who are secret or open secularists, but they are hardly making war on the others. They are just trying to survive as best they can, and to stop the further encroachments of Islam where it has temporarily been constrained, as in Turkey under Kemalist rulers, or even in Iraq under the Ba'athists). . ."
Hugh,
Every time you point out, in even the smallest way, that secularists, atheists, etc. are not the enemy in the fight against Islam, I find myself saying "Thank you."
I wish that all of us, all of the time, could keep that in mind. We really need to pull together against this common enemy of humankind.
Once again, I am copying down your suggested solutions. Please keep repeating and refining them.
Guys:
Lately there has been A LOT of troll feeding going on at JW. . . I'm not saying that a response or two isn't called for from time to time, but you troll-feeders (and you know who you are) are allowing the muslims to HIJACK ENTIRE THREADS and establish their OWN agendas, diverting us from Robert's and our own. Do you really want to give them that kind of influence or platform? . . . I suggest that if you can't keep yourself from endlessly engaging these trolls. . . you pony up at the donations link on the JW homepage to compensate Spencer for the bandwidth that they waste and abuse. . . muslim trolls are drawn to this site like flies to a sh@t-pile, but that doesn't mean we have to buy into their efforts at manipulation. . .
I plan to post this message more than once to get the message out. Sorry for the repetition, but it simply had to be said - AGAIN.
CGW
Posted by: CGW at May 8, 2005 09:55 AM
CGW,
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! YEA! ABSOLUTELY! KEEP A COPY OF THIS TO POST WHENEVER THE NEED ARISES!
I apologize for putting "hijack entire threads" in caps, but it's SO IMPORTANT for our well-meaning troll feeders to realize! And I LOVE your solution; it's a lot like making the kids put a quarter in the jar whenever they swear or something!
And folks, may I add that it is also a waste of time to argue among ourselves about which belief system, or lack thereof, is the best? This is, after all, supposed to be a forum where we can become educated about Islam, and discuss ways to win! In a sense, it's another form of hijacking, and takes away from opportunities for productive discussion.
Once in a while, it's useful to have some Muslims post here as illustrations of why we must pull together to keep them from clogging up humankind's future, but to respond to them at length is a waste of time. Do you REALLY think you're going to convince them? REALLY?
Folks, let's KEEP OUR NOSES TO THE GRINDSTONE, OUR EYES ON THE BALL, AND OUR SHOULDERS TO THE WHEEL!
We've ALL GOT A BIG, IMPORTANT JOB TO DO, and the time to do it doesn't get any longer!