Refreshing Candor Alert. "Iran: Vote for Rafsanjani and We Will Have Nuclear Bombs, Says Religious Leader," from Adnkronos International, with thanks to MG:
Tehran, 27 May (AKI) - Hojatolislam Gholam Reza Hasani, a representative of Iran's supreme spiritual leader, Ayatollah Seyyed Ali Khamenei, in Iranian Azerbaijan, has no doubts as to who to vote for in the next presidential elections on 17 June. "You need to vote for Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani," said Hasani. "This way we will finally be able to have for ourselves the atomic bomb to fairly stand up to Israeli weapons," said Hasani."Freedom, democracy and stupidities of this type cannot be carried over to any part, and these concepts are out of sync with the principles of Islam," said Hasani, the imam who led Friday prayers in the main city of western Iranian Azerbaijian.
What's that? Hasani says freedom and democracy are incompatible with Islam? What is he, some kind of racist Islamophobe?
"Islam always spoke with the sword in the hand and I don't see why now we have changed attitudes and talk with the other civilisations."
It is a flawed translation.
Or:
He was quoted out of context.
Or:
It is just campaign rhetoric appealing to his political base - believers in the RoPaT.
Or he is telling the truth.
"Islam always spoke with the sword in the hand and I don't see why now we have changed attitudes and talk with the other civilizations."
True Islam isn't like this. Jihad means inner struggle. This is yet another misunderstander of the true Islam. The true Muhammad was a man of peace who fought only defensive wars.
VERY IMPORTANT:
The three phases of Muhammad's life
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=120148&D=2005-05-27&HC=1#0000
#39 This entry at my website talks about an article, "The Key to Jihadist Ideology and Strategy", by Lawrence Auster. It is EXTREMELY enlightening when trying to untangle the Chameleon of Islam.
To summarize: The Entire life of Mohamed (PTUI) is seen, not as a single template for behavior, but a set of templates, where any specific template is chosen based on the circumstances. Where Islam is weak, the early part of Mohammed's (PTUI) life is used. Where Islam is stronger, but still fighting the Infidel, the middle part of his life is followed. Where Islam has conquered, then the latter part of his life is emulated.
It's a big con game: they can point to one PART of Mohammed's life and protest that THAT is Islam, while hoping you don't notice that they are following a DIFFERENT part of Mohammed's life as they speak.
The Con works because Judaism and Christianity usually have only ONE template to apply (The Torah for the former, and Christ's life for the latter). The Torah is a fixed and finite document, and the record of Jesus' life, despite being written from different views and thus differing from each other in details, is so consistently peaceful and non-violent in itself that in "Carnage and Culture", Hanson himself blames Christianity, not for creating a huge invincible war machine, but the prime source for DISMANTLING it, and the prime advocate for not creating one.
It is a mistake to think that Islam takes the Koran as the sole source of teaching and authority: it is the SUPREME source, but there are a number of secondary historical works containing commentary that is followed as faithfully and passionately as the Koran. In this sense, it is like the PreReformation catholic church, which pushed "the writings of the fathers," and Tradition as authoritative sources for interpreting the Bible.
Don't be fooled by the "peaceful" Muslim: He'll not only switch templates on you the moment the situation changes, but will justify the switch as being fully Islamic.
And he'd be right, because MOHAMED (PTUI), did EXACTLY what he had just done.
Posted by Ptah 2005-05-27 18:56|| Front Page|| Comment Top
Iran may get nuclear bombs in a way they aren't expecting if they continue down this Imperialistic Islamic cul de sac.
But, as mentioned elsewhere on JW/DW, I prefer the cleaner method of getting honorable Persians living in the West to enter the intelligence/military services, infiltrate Iran, and assassinate the physicists and ayatollahs behind the Iranian leaderships' headlong, brainless rush toward an atomic apocalypse.
Let the guilty maniacs suffer, and not the young majority in Iran who would love nothing better than to see the anhedonic nihilistic mullah-ocracy oppressing them fall.
Hmmm.
Don't you sometimes get the odd feeling that is some terrible farce?
It is simply absurd that the Muslim world is not able to convince the diplomats, politicians and journalists of their hatred for Israel, Jews, the West, Hindus, Women, well, the list goes on. . .when they have never wavered from clearly indicating just that in their own media and polity.
And not just a couple of little "extremist" rags, or one or two "fundamentalist" rulers; the entire Muslim world, through both word and deed, has never materially budged from its position that the West is the fons et origo of all that is evil, and that Israel is so excruciatingly evil that nothing short of the destruction of the state can be considered.
Every week, the largest mosques in the Muslim nations are treated to sermons evoking death and destruction for Jews, Americans, etc. (see previous list)
Every week, the news is filled with violence perpetrated by angry Muslims. People who bridle at that statement simply have to get a grip - it is not a statement of opinion; IT IS A STATEMENT OF FACT.
Every week, we hear of more individuals and groups that are caught with weapons, plans, and allies in "charities" who are trying to kill more people in the name of Islam. (also a STATEMENT OF FACT)
Every week, the men (and we know why it is always men) who inspire these groups promote a world dominated by Islam, and unceasingly call for the continuation of a genocidal struggle against not just Jews, but against the "Infidel" in general, which is to say EVERYONE outside the Muslim fold... Please do not believe Western MSM or other such badly-informed sources. Do yourself a favor and consult the Arab media. A good place to start is memri.org if you do not have any Middle Eastern languages.
But my point? Well, what ELSE has to happen before the European diplomats, the UN, and the Western media stop trying to persuade us that the Muslim world is peace-loving and looking hopefully for a successful integration into the modern world?
I have an image of some Muslim world leaders sitting around a table. They are discussing the problem at hand, and it revolves around the issue that no matter what vile propaganda is spewed forth, no matter how many deals are broken, no matter how many mass murders are committed, no matter the beheadings, the torturing, the suicide bombings, the destruction of Buddhist, Jewish, and Christian holy sites, the use of charities, ambulances, and "human rights groups" as tools by which to cause death and destruction; the West is simply so in love with its self, with moral relativism, with its "noble" liberalism, and with consumption, that it simply can't or won't understand the message. . .no matter how strenuously and lucidly it is sent.
The list of atrocities cited above having proved ineffectual at getting the point across to the dense and self-absorbed Westerners, perhaps the Islamists really DO wonder about a nuclear weapon.
We'll know soon, as the "diplomatic process" that was to have prevented Iran from becoming a nuclear power has failed - as EVERY diplomatic process involving an Islamic nation seems to fail - and we will soon be exposed to Islamists who have a new tool to try and get us to see what they think about us. Alas, I am afraid that the time for a "pre-emptory strike" against the Iranian facilities - by Israel or by anyone else - has long since passed. No, we'll eat the fruit of our diplomatic labors this time for sure. Perhaps the taste will not be so sweet?
To close, back to the original post. Seriously. Read it. Do you think this man is lying? Isn't what he's saying demonstrably true? Isn't he speaking from his heart? Doesn't he weekly stand proudly in his house of worship (as it were)in front of his countrymen, giving this very message? Don't his followers adore and support him in large and still-growing numbers?
These aren't just hints the Islamists send with this sort of rhetoric; they are overt threats and clear statements of hatred and undying opposition. Let's get with the reality, or we will continue to trade lives and honor for lies, trickery, and meetings of diplomats.
Am Yisrael Chai!
Aaron
Where's are revered Jihad translating expert Shukri to help clear up this one?
I am going to sue him in Europe for being a racist Islamophobe, how can he say this about the only religion of peace.
A couple of months back I remember the Iranians crowing about having something that would scare the great Satan, I can't remember the exact words, I knew then that they had the bomb ready for use.
If Israel is destroyed, Mecca and Medina are next.
Bottom line.
I'd bet that some of Israel's nukes are aimed that way already.
islam was forced on iranians.
by the sword.
If anyone thinks they won't use nukes out of some kind of love for humanity, open your ears. This guy just said it out loud, President Bush, is islam still the ROP®?
If they do nuke Israel, this will mean total destruction for a large part of that hemisphere. Although as a believer, I believe that G-d will deliver His people and His land.
The same sermons are given in Pakistan, Gaza and West Bank and most other Islamic countries. How about Britain, France, Germany and the Netherlands. I am sure they give the same sermons. Kill the infidels, create the global Islamic state, so it is written. It is all a correct interpretation of the teachings of Muhammed.
There Dhimmi Bush goes and gives Abby $50M. What a waste. While our deficit soars, the world screams 'you filthy infidels, give me money.' It's like magic.
This should be on the front page of Newsweek and all the other dhimmi and apologist publications.
"Every week, the largest mosques in the Muslim nations are treated to sermons evoking death and destruction for Jews, Americans, etc. (see previous list)......"
Blah Blah Blah, absolute rubbish. Who are you trying to fool?
"If anyone thinks they won't use nukes out of some kind of love for humanity, open your ears."
Are you referring to the time the US dropped the bomb on Japanese Civilians.
"If Israel is destroyed, Mecca and Medina are next.
Bottom line."
No, you don't have a say in anything. Israel is not a religious homeland as it is forbidden to the Jewish people, it has no basis according to Jewish law, it is a secular country that has nothing to do with religion. You must have seen the gay parades through my beloved Jerusalem
[The Torah] forbids us to strive for the reunion or possession of the land by any but spiritual means
Rabbi S. R. Hirsch
Not via our desire did we leave the land of Israel, and not via our power will we come back to the land of Israel.
Rabbi S.D. Schneerson
[Zionists] want a state in order to make Jews into heretics.
Rabbi C. Soloveichik
The Zionists have attacked the center point of Judaism.
Rabbi V. Soloveichik
No one can lay a finger on Makkah or Medina.
ia666-
A meteorite hit the Earth 70 million years ago and wiped out most species (notice any dinosaurs lately?). Another one could hit Mecca tomorrow.
Inshallah?
Who are you to tell Allah what he can or cannot do? You sound like a heretic -or an apostate!
But, for the sake of simplicity, it would be more likely to be a Polaris missile, with a neutron warhead, 'fingering' Mecca and Medina, if the need should ever arise. (In response to an "Islamic Bomb' being used first.)
Thereby rendering this focal point of 7th century regression into a big, slightly radioactive parking lot for future RV's full of Hassidim to congregate, who now find Israel so 'upsetting' -without the Messiah come to make it 'clean'. (They assume that the 'Messiah' has not already come, unbeknownst to them. But, if the Messiah has come, secretly, then Israel, is already in accord with their strict interpretation of the Torah, Talmud, etc.)
P.S. The use of atomic weapons on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was no worse than the firebombing of Toyko, earlier, or Dresden. Just quicker. And less risk to the bomber pilots.
War means: you use as much killing power as you need to get the enemy to stop. Everybody killed with bayonets or bullets or even bricks were just as dead as the ones who died from a nuclear explosion. It isn't the means you kill someone with that is ultimately important, it is the reason that you need to.
Ever heard of the Bataan Death March? The Rape of Nanking? "Comfort women"? Kamikazis? Or Japan's own atomic bomb project? (Which the U.S. beat to the punch, along with the Nazis' atomic bomb effort... which could have been genocidally devastating, since the V-2's were being improved monthly, and Hitler would have happily taken out every major U.S. city, unstoppably, had he not deported or killed his best scientists before the war began.)
History is a bitch. It rarely plays the tune you think it will.
(I'm sure you "love" Jerusalem the way a pedophile 'loves' 9 year old girls.)
Here you go ia,
http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/factfile/missiles/wep-toma.html
"29He told them this parable: "Look at the fig tree and all the trees. 30When they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near. 31Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near."
ia, the reference to the "fig tree" means Israel. The Jewish people are back in their land after 2000 years. The budding of the fig tree is a reality, you muslims cannot fight G-d. You have been deceived, and you follow a false prophet and his god who appeared as an angel of light. You have been deceived!
Ia, you might be upset but I think in this instance it's better just to admit that your coreligionists in Iran are not interested in the whole peace thing.
I don't like to imagine Mecca nuked - but what should the appropriate response be to centuries - millenia - of islamic aggression? The statement by the above representatives of Iran are indicative enough of islam's real attitude towards everything non-muslim: "Islam always spoke with the sword in the hand and I don't see why now we have changed attitudes and talk with the other civilisations" Moreover, the use of such a weapon on Israel, destroying much of it (such a small area; cannot it be left in peace?) would guarantee a very severe response by the Israelis, and I have no doubts whatever that Mecca is very high on the list of targets for retaliation. The lessons of Masada have not been forgotten. Iran threatens much, and can also lose much.
"You must have seen the gay parades through my beloved Jerusalem"
What, are you now a homophobe as well as an anti-semite? What do you have against homosexuals? Hell, Jews live there too; is this also a problem for you?
Actually, have you ever even been to Jerusalem? What does it really mean to you, that it is so beloved? Does anyone really know where Mohammed was buried, actually?
Ia, you need to heal within yourself and find real respect and love for the other members of the human race; muslim, 'kafr'; heterosexual, homosexual. I say this not to shame you, but as a gesture to help you. Find some love for other religions - other 'civilizations' as the above would put it.
Let us find real peace. I know it is in you.
Imam Geoff
ia786;
In the 1948 'War Of Independance' The fledgling Jewish nation of 600,000 (with no outside help, and no advanced military) took on the 'might' of a total 6,000,000 Arabs.
The outcome is history.
How do you reconcile this with everything being 'Inshallah'?
It's simple.
The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is, and was with them.
Regards,
Kc
kc and Geoff.
Young ia posted last night on a DW thread that he is a member of Naqshbandi Tariqah which I believe is a Sufi order that does not meet with the universal approval of all Islam. he described himself as a Sunni/Sufi. Is this significant?
ia,
You write, "No one can lay a finger on Makkah or Medina."
Do you know how the Christians and Jews felt when Muslims captured Jerusalem? How their religious places were desecrated by Muslims? How the Buddhists felt when Muslims destroyed the Bamiyan Buddhas? How the pagans felt when Muslims took away their temples in Mecca and Medina?
I see a lot of similarity between a Muslim and a bully.
If one nuclear weapons goes off in israel its the end of the world plain and simple,Israels 200 nuclear weapons will destory every arab bar none, Never again means never again, if israel goes we all go. Israel is not screwing around.
"Islam always spoke with the sword in the hand and I don't see why now we have changed attitudes and talk with the other civilisations"
to me this quote means that islam has always taken the high and mighty posture of dominating and persecuting other civilizations by force. in other words, islam says to humanity, "become islamic or die."
it means that islam will never want to talk reasonably or act as an equal among societies. islam only wants to dominate, subjugate and rule.
who wants to live with such a pompous system as islam that is always trying to gain the upper hand? how could we ever trust such a cruel and brutal system as islam?
that is why i would like to see islam banned worldwide in all it's forms, and the quran along with it. if china and india with their adequate manpower would help the west and put all islamic countries under marshal law, then maybe the world could roll back this tide of islamism. if not, then jesus christ will eventually do it while the whole world vainly rages for no good reason as described in psalm 2:
"why do the nations assemble with commotion (uproar and confusion of voices), and why do the people imagine (meditate upon and devise) an empty scheme?
the kings of the earth take their places; the rulers take counsel together against the lord and his annointed one - the messiah, the christ." (from the amplified bible)
yes, jesus christ is going to rule the world and islam and the antichrist will not be able to do a thing against jesus christ when the time comes.
place your faith in jesus christ today, even if it means persecution or death. you will be amply rewarded eternally.
1a on Ali Sina's FFI:
"I am Saladin, the lion of Islam, I have debated many on JW/DW and wiped the floor with them"-
then he 'debates' with Ali about women. Needless to say that they should be covered up from head to toe etc. ad nauseum. Ali gives up on him since he just cant get out and over the stupidity of 1a's arguments.
Here on JW he keeps calling himself a 'moderate'- (mo-irate) and asks for 'understanding' and tolerance and to 'fight extremist Islam together'...
Ia, you suffer not only from multiple personality disorder, but you are also a sexual spastic, a pathological lier and you have never made a point (exeption: above post!)
Here you show your true colours, what a Jew hating lunatic you are, what a dyed in the wool Jihad-Muzzie, kitman and takkiyya expert!
You are no 'lion of Islam', no 'Saladin'- you are at best a lying weasel, not even a pussy cat! I wouldn't be surprised about you being involved in terrorist activities, its only a matter of time before you find yourself behind bars!
You might end up being the prison-bitch and you might like it, good luck!
"A meteorite hit the Earth 70 million years ago and wiped out most species (notice any dinosaurs lately?). Another one could hit Mecca tomorrow."
Pray for one, boy.
"But, for the sake of simplicity, it would be more likely to be a Polaris missile, with a neutron warhead, 'fingering' Mecca and Medina, if the need should ever arise. (In response to an "Islamic Bomb' being used first.)"
Who's going to nuke Mekkah, God is the protector of Islam.
"P.S. The use of atomic weapons on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was no worse than the firebombing of Toyko, earlier, or Dresden. Just quicker. And less risk to the bomber pilots.
War means: you use as much killing power as you need to get the enemy to stop. Everybody killed with bayonets or bullets or even bricks were just as dead as the ones who died from a nuclear explosion. It isn't the means you kill someone with that is ultimately important, it is the reason that you need to."
Blah Blah Blah, same rubbish again.
*- YAWN -*
.................................................
"ia, the reference to the "fig tree" means Israel. The Jewish people are back in their land after 2000 years. The budding of the fig tree is a reality, you muslims cannot fight G-d. You have been deceived, and you follow a false prophet and his god who appeared as an angel of light. You have been deceived!"
The Bible is not the word of God, many of the truths within it have been mixed with falsehood.
Moses, a Great Prophet of God stated that the land of Israel was forbidden to the Jewish people. The Jewish people have been through alot in recent times but Israel has no religious basis whatsoever.
Muslims do not fight the order of God. God is the supreme one, we love all Gods Prophets (Moses, Noah etc.) and we expect the return of the beloved Jesus Christ, son of Mary.
.................................................
"Ia, you might be upset but I think in this instance it's better just to admit that your coreligionists in Iran are not interested in the whole peace thing."
I couldn't give a damn about what they say.
"The statement by the above representatives of Iran are indicative enough of islam's real attitude towards everything non-muslim"
Absolute rubbish, hogwash.
"What, are you now a homophobe as well as an anti-semite? What do you have against homosexuals? Hell, Jews live there too; is this also a problem for you?"
You still call me anti-Semitic?? You are a liar, you know damn well that I don't hate the Jewish people, I have nothing against the Jews. They are victims just like the Palestinians, I like to call it down the middle but the people here seem to think the Israelis can do no wrong. Both sides have committed crimes.
"Let us find real peace. I know it is in you."
We should ask God for guidance, together like brothers as soon our beloved Jesus will be back and this false barrier between you and me will be destroyed.
"In the 1948 'War Of Independance' The fledgling Jewish nation of 600,000 (with no outside help, and no advanced military) took on the 'might' of a total 6,000,000 Arabs.
The outcome is history.
How do you reconcile this with everything being 'Inshallah'?
It's simple.
The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is, and was with them"
Don't take this the wrong way but how come the Jewish people were killed in such large numbers during WW2, was God not with them then??
You are cherry picking in order to justify a fruitless point.
Israel was created through acts of terrorism, the bombing of the King David Hotel, many Brits were killed. Many other British soldiers (Christians) were killed in cold blood. In Iraq Zionists even bombed Jewish synagogues in order to scare Jews into immigrating to Israel. Look at the creation of Israel, all we see it terror and the blood of innocents being shed.
What is that supposed to mean, God is supreme we all know that. The Jews were Gods chosen ones as shown in the Quran, however they disobeyed Moses and the land was forbidden to them.
Zionism has nothing to do with religion. The true Torah Jews have addressed this.
.................................................
"Young ia posted last night on a DW thread that he is a member of Naqshbandi Tariqah which I believe is a Sufi order that does not meet with the universal approval of all Islam. he described himself as a Sunni/Sufi. Is this significant?"
All Sufi orders meet the universal approval of Islam.
.................................................
"If one nuclear weapons goes off in israel its the end of the world plain and simple,Israels 200 nuclear weapons will destory every arab bar none, Never again means never again, if israel goes we all go. Israel is not screwing around."
Really, then Israel should be ordered to dismantle its weapons programme. So if anything happens to Israel we all die, even people minding their own, people that have no religion. I don't like blackmail.
.................................................
"yes, jesus christ is going to rule the world and islam and the antichrist will not be able to do a thing against jesus christ when the time comes.
place your faith in jesus christ today, even if it means persecution or death. you will be amply rewarded eternally."
Correction all Muslims have put their faith in Jesus Christ son of Mary. Believing Jesus is a prophet of God is mandatory in Islam, one cannot be a proper Muslim if s/he doesn't believe Jesus is a Prophet of God. All Muslims await the return of Christ, we believe that John the Baptist is a Prophet too, he is buried in Damascus, this is where Jesus will descend.
Muslims do believe in Jesus however we don't believe that he was God. However we both believe and honour the same person, the son of the Blessed Mary, when he returns all barriers will be broken and we will be together.
.................................................
[19:58] "These are some of the prophets whom God blessed. They were chosen from among the descendants of Adam, and the descendants of those whom we carried with Noah, and the descendants of Abraham and Israel, and from among those whom we guided and selected. When the revelations of the Most Gracious are recited to them, they fall prostrate, weeping."
.................................................
Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.(2 : 62)
ia666-
As a skeptic, I don't pray, I work.
As a tactical liar, you don't care what you say, you just prey. And jerk like a knee hit by a tiny rubber hammer. Everything is reaction. Or regurgitation. Or dismal dead dogma.
I hear not one live thought from your head.
Just dust.
ia786 obviously believes that his moon-demon "allah" (Satan in reality) won't allow Mecca and Medina to be vaporised.
Seems to me that this "allah" has been pretty impotent in warfare, at least since islam was driven out of Europe.
The Iranians have STATED that, once they have nukes, they will destroy Israel. They have come right out and proclaimed it loudly and publicly. I'm CERTAIN that Israel has laid all the proper plans.
ia's asinine assertion that "we can't do anything" to destroy Mecca is based purely on his faith, while the FACTS dictate completely otherwise. It reminds me of the muslims on line who stated that, should nukes be directed toward Mecca, "allah" would grab them right out of the air and stop them.
You stick with your faith, boy. I'll stick with reality, science and technology. We'll see who's right, won't we?
I'm betting muslims won't like it.
Pegcity - I agree 100%.
I've been to Israel on birth right and i became very aware of the fact that israel would never allow its destruction without a fight.
I talked to a naval officer who was on our trip and he mentioned that israel has 12 nuclear subs, i always wondered where israel kept there war heads.
Israel has been developing the arrow anti air to air missle for the last 10 years, has the most effective awacs in the world , and the best trained air force known to man.
Iran's time is running out, i predict a 3 pronged attack
1)kirdush forces attack from the east, occupying the republican guards attention
2)Israel sends in speacil forces to take out the missle batteries
3)Relentless bombing by F15's.
Irans airforce consists of 4 usable f14's
This idea that iran has some mighty army is a joke.
They are using an outdated soviet military system, old equipment.
Talk about ignorance...and we have Ia.
CGW as usual you're dead on. Iranian officials have in fact directly threatened Israel, a fact that Ia couldn't give a damn about either I imagine.
Besides not explaining what he meant about homosexuals, or his anti-semitism, he accuses Israel of being founded on terrorism? Really? Who started the violence on that score, exactly? My understanding was that the Jews took up arms to protect themselves from muslim violence, to say nothing of 1948.
Geoff:"The statement by the above representatives of Iran are indicative enough of islam's real attitude towards everything non-muslim"
Ia:"Absolute rubbish, hogwash."
Very well: then explain them. Here's his statement again: "Islam always spoke with the sword in the hand and I don't see why now we have changed attitudes and talk with the other civilisations"
Yet, somehow, Ia thinks any statement by any minor State Department flunkie, or nutbar preacher in Ass Hat, Upper Nowheresville, is gospel truth for the West.
LOL
Imam Geoff
"Besides not explaining what he meant about homosexuals, or his anti-semitism, he accuses Israel of being founded on terrorism? Really? Who started the violence on that score, exactly? My understanding was that the Jews took up arms to protect themselves from muslim violence, to say nothing of 1948."
Who started the violence, Zionists, not the peaceful Jews, Zionists. There is a difference here. They bombed the King David Hotel, many British soldiers were killed, many others were killed in cold blood. I don't think the Brits did anything to the peaceful Jews yet these Zionists fanatics killed them. These fanatics then went on a rampage and bombed peaceful Jews in their synagogues in order to scare them into immigrating to Israel.
"ia's asinine assertion that "we can't do anything" to destroy Mecca is based purely on his faith, while the FACTS dictate completely otherwise. It reminds me of the muslims on line who stated that, should nukes be directed toward Mecca, "allah" would grab them right out of the air and stop them.
You stick with your faith, boy. I'll stick with reality, science and technology. We'll see who's right, won't we?
I'm betting muslims won't like it."
We!! who's we?? The American Admin? well they love Muslims across the World, Condoleeza Rice clearly stated this earlier. We have even had Laura Bush visit the Dome of the Rock Mosque in our beloved Jerusalem. Islam is well established throughout the World.
You don't decide anything, you can't hurt anyone, boy. You know it. Do me a favour, look at your keyboard right now, look at the Enter key, imagine that was the button to launch a nuke at Mekkah. Now press it hard, press it as many times as you like. That is the closest your ever going to get.
Enjoy yourself.
Muslims try to convince us that they "accept" all the prophets. What does this acceptance actually mean? How can one accept the teachings of Jesus, which are pacifist, and yet accept the teachings of mohammed, which are violent and murderous at the core? Jus accepting Jesus and all the prophets as prophets and nothing more, is pure nonsense.
There is no doubt in my mind that this crazy "religion" by a crazy man, is in for a demise, and the world can live a more peaceful existence. I hope and pray that the demise is peaceful, for the good of all.
I realize that JW is not the place to argue Bible verses but the statement that Jesus will return to Damascuscan't go unchallenged. Jesus will stand on the Mount of Olives on that day, in Jerusalem.
ia, you speak of the Jewish and Christian scriptures being corrupted. The Dead Sea Scrolls say different. Google *Muhammad, buried* and see what you get. I'll tell you, you get Mecca and Medina. Your scholars can't even agree as to where your "prophet" is buried. Your religion came 600 years after Jesus Christ warned not to follow false prophets. Talk about corrupted scripture.
After 9/11 the Muzzie-'loving' US administration had the best reason in the world to clean up - it didn't.
As a result, Mohammedan madness continues.
No Makkah, no Medina: Allah banished, spook discontinued!
The razing of mosques, internment and mass deportations of Allahs bloodthirsty infiltraitors in the West is inevitable. The sooner the better.
Make sure we teach history and teach our children well, just in case another cult pups up after that.
The American Administration won't have to lift a finger.
Israel will take care of it all - and believe it, they can and they will.
ia, is this some of the respect and veneration of Jesus you were talking about?
From a link BigSleep found -
http://atrott.freeservers.com/
ia786 is extremely naif, as Geoff pointed out above.
He actually BELIEVES the WORDS of our politicians, rather than observing our actions around the world.
We practice our own brand of taqiyya to fool the muslim world, and ia bought it hook, line and sinker.
We have given Israel everything she needs, and she will get the job done.
We would respond to an attack on her, our forever ally. We responded to 9/11 (3,000 deaths) by invading, conquering and occupying (all in very short order) two muslim countries. How might we be expected to respond if a nuke was used against our interests, our homeland or our allies?
Don't look for proportionality. Look at how Bush responded last time, not at the Infidel-taqiyya he spouts to keep the muslim world submissive.
From FFI: "Last spring when Sufiyatu Huseini was condemned to be stoned to death, petitions poured from around the world. She was acquitted in a retrial thanks to the ability of her lawyer who found a hadith that said pregnancy can last up to 7 years."
pregnancy can last up to 7 YEARS !!!!! Another new thing I learnt from "Islamic Science".
CGW,
You said, "Look at how Bush responded last time, not at the Infidel-taqiyya he spouts to keep the muslim world submissive."
I hope you're right. Some of what Bush and Rice say sounds like dhimmitude.
ia786
It's amusing to see your childish reactions to Mecca getting wasted. I slam dunk guarantee you that Mecca, Medina , Qom will be obliterated along with other prime Muslim targets. This will happen if Israel gets nuked by crazy Iranians or if the United States suffers a nuclear blast from Muslim terrorists.
"He actually BELIEVES the WORDS of our politicians, rather than observing our actions around the world.
We practice our own brand of taqiyya to fool the muslim world, and ia bought it hook, line and sinker.
We have given Israel everything she needs, and she will get the job done.
We would respond to an attack on her, our forever ally. We responded to 9/11 (3,000 deaths) by invading, conquering and occupying (all in very short order) two muslim countries. How might we be expected to respond if a nuke was used against our interests, our homeland or our allies?
Don't look for proportionality. Look at how Bush responded last time, not at the Infidel-taqiyya he spouts to keep the muslim world submissive."
Posted by: CGW at May 28, 2005 08:16 PM
Exactly.
Ia: "Who started the violence, Zionists, not the peaceful Jews, Zionists. There is a difference here. They bombed the King David Hotel, many British soldiers were killed, many others were killed in cold blood. I don't think the Brits did anything to the peaceful Jews yet these Zionists fanatics killed them. These fanatics then went on a rampage and bombed peaceful Jews in their synagogues in order to scare them into immigrating to Israel."
Who started the violence?
Arabs. Muslims, to be precise. Israelis started arming their civilians - in contravention of the British Authority in 'Palestine' - when muslims began to attack and massacre Jewish settlements. The Israelis - yes, indeed, the nasty Zionist Haganah and all the rest - eventually began bombing British interests in the point of getting the Brits out of the region, since their efforts were interdicting the safety of the Jews migrating there. The British were hindering their safety. As a Brit migrant, I can tell you that it was not exactly a proud moment in British history, and that I am suitably ashamed of the efforts of the British Administration there during that period. As for bombings of synagogues, I've never heard of those. I imagine the 'peaceful' Jews - the ones Ia likes - were too busy being massacred to do much fighting. Funny, how preferences can be so bluntly observed sometimes.
It would be exceeding hard to speculate that the Haganah et al had no good reason for behaving as they did, but as you will.
And, since we're stuck on this issue; YES, it is exceedingly likely that if the Iranians were monumentally stupid enough to actually attack Israel instead of, hell, I don't know, letting them the hell alone, Mecca would be reduced to a glazed glass field and they wouldn't find enough of the Kaaba to put in a thimble. This seems extremely likely to me; the Israelis would have a hard time filling up their quota of 200 targets for all the warheads currently in possession. Muslim sensitivities aside, one would be hard pressed to object to something of the like on the basis of its religious significance, given the treatment that Christian shrines have received under muslim care at various periods.
Ah well. If you're looking for peace, you won't find it in the Middle East. Let's all pray that the Iranian government has more brains all together at least than would fit in a broken teacup, and then we (probably) won't have to find out.
"Arm the doomsday weapon", anyone?
Geoff
Everyone heres assuming the iranians could somehow get a nuke off before israel could hit them which is utter nonsense.
Israel has satellites, nuclear subs, and the most advanced awacs in the world. If israel even smelt something was coming there way iran will be bombed back into the stone age.
The only reason israel didn't destroy iraq during the gulf war was the americans kindly asked them not to, making them look like idiots.
Iran is using a modified shabib missle, which if anything like the scuds its based off will be absolutley useless when it comes to actually getting off the ground let alone hit a target.
I truly believe that the IAF is fully prepared and trained to deal with the situation.
If Iran acquires the Bomb, we need to let them know that they will be held responsible for any nuclear attacks on anyone, anywhere.
Oh, and ia786 -- yes, we nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Could you please explain how this makes the victims of a future nuclear attack any less dead?
Ray C.-
ia666 was merely hinting that any people who would use a weapon to defend themselves -if it happens to be spelled "atom bomb" and not "firebomb"- is guilty of being morally bad.
But dead is dead. (As Nick Berg and Daniel Pearl discovered, it doesn't take anything but a sheep sacrificing knife to end a life.)
Islamic apologists like ia666 try to use the 'liberal' self-loathing p.c. nonsense guilt-inducing rationale that 'the weapon itself is evil', and not the use it is put to.
If someone were attacking my family, and all I had at hand was a flame thrower, should I NOT defend my relatives because the weapon was 'disproportionate'?
The attacker would find out that I do not split such hairs.
And neither will the West if Iran, or post-Musharref Pakistan, or any future nuclear nutjobs tempt fissionable fate.
Maybe that makes me a bad person. But it will also keep me a live person.
I posted this at DW, just unbelievable!
From a poster at Conyer's blog:
"I have actually better Idea which I think with Mr. Conyers help we could pull off.
Here goes: Most Americans do not have any problem with Islam. SO what I think each of us should do is sign a piece of paper that says something to the effect "I (State your name) Do not have anything against the Islamic people or their relious beliefs. In fact, I (State your name) totally respect your belief system and those who subscribe to it. So therefore, we hope that you will pass this off to your Fundamentalist brethren and let them know that we mean them no harm. And please refrain from being angry at us in the future. Furthermore, we will be sure to treat the Quran with all the dignity and repect it deserves. Just please please don't be angry at us or protest anymore we really do not want to see anyone else get hurt.
Then after we each sign the letter we can get Mr. Conyers to get them dropped over Iraq and Afghanistan. I am sure they will be read and appreciated by all. Then this whole silly mess will be over."
I am sure Zarqawi will pack it all in and go home and raise goats now that the poster above ↑ has begged and groveled. /sarcasm
IABigDummy:
Who exactly have you wiped the floor with here? Have you not learned by now that you are merely a cheap form of entertainment for the readers here?
You're nothing but another fly that is caught in the anti-Jihad spider's web. You have no argument, you have no justification for Islam. Thus, you will make a fine Jew one day.
IABigDummy:
Who exactly have you wiped the floor with here? Have you not learned by now that you are merely a cheap form of entertainment for the readers here?
You're nothing but another fly that is caught in the anti-Jihad spider's web. You have no argument, you have no justification for Islam. Thus, you will make a fine Jew one day.
IABigDummy:
Who exactly have you wiped the floor with here? Have you not learned by now that you are merely a cheap form of entertainment for the readers here?
You're nothing but another fly that is caught in the anti-Jihad spider's web. You have no argument, you have no justification for Islam. Thus, you will make a fine Jew one day.
IABigDummy:
Who exactly have you wiped the floor with here? Have you not learned by now that you are merely a cheap form of entertainment for the readers here?
You're nothing but another fly that is caught in the anti-Jihad spider's web. You have no argument, you have no justification for Islam. Thus, you will make a fine Jew one day.
IABigDummy:
Who exactly have you wiped the floor with here? Have you not learned by now that you are merely a form of cheap entertainment for the readers here?
You're nothing but another fly that is caught in the anti-Jihad spider web. You have no argument, you have no justification for Islam. Thus, you will make a fine Jew one day.
so sorry for the multiple posts.
On the matter of his membership of the Sufi order Naqshbandi Tariqah ia posted
"All Sufi orders meet the universal approval of Islam."
These articles suggest otherwise
This is Naqshbandiyya
Collection of articles exposing how Kabbani and his group betrays Islam and the Muslims.
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/8841/menu.html
and
The Naqshbandi Tariqah Unveiled
Exposes the deviations of this contemporary movement. Shirk in the Naqshbandi Sufi Tareeqah....
http://islamicweb.com/beliefs/cults/sufi_naqshabandi_unveiled.htm
I don't have any axe to grind about the denominations within Islam, son, but don't tell me something does not exist, when it does. Thats the behaviour of a 6 year old, not an undergraduate. Where is your inquiring mind? Your thirst for knowledge and enthusiasim for research? If that disapproval is small, say so and weigh up it's significance. If you are accused of shirk that is of interest to me. Why? Tell us. My belief in the Trinity attracts the same accusation.
So what degree are you doing then where absolute statements backed by up by no authorities is the normal academic process?
IA - You have "wiped the floor" about as much as the Muslim armies, with the help of Allah, have "wipe the Jews" out of Israel.
IA why don't you just go to Iran and get a nine year old for sex? Just so you can be like Mohammed? (may pigs piss be upon him)
Carolyn2 - that PC person's idea is actually a good one, but only with the following modification.
As they all believe Islam is the "religion of Peace", after they have all written their names down, instead of dropping off the paper, why don't we round up all the PCers and drop them off in some Islamic hellhole, that way they can tell the Muslims themselves? Saving our countries from the treason within, AND the Muslims will most likely show them some "peace" by:-
a) killing them
b) let them ruin their countries (NOT!! - socialism hasn't exactly flourished in Islamic countries)
c) rape them
d) enslave them
Come to think of it - ALL OF THE ABOVE!!!
Oh and lets repeat that in all of the USA's traditional allies' countries also!
According to muslims, Allah has no partner. BUT, have you ever noticed that Allah cant do anything by himself. Totally impotent without his frenzied muslim partners/slaves. IA, and Shukri are examples of Allahs partners, there are many, many more..."No partners" is a lie...Allah has millions of them, and they do all his dirty work...sweeping, mopping, scrubbing toilets ect, jihad (toilet jihad) takes many forms...Allah knows best...
If allah is defending Makkah, why are so many pious Muslims crushed to death completing the Hajj every year?
Beware Of False Prophets!
No one can lay a finger on Makkah or Medina.
Posted by: ia786 at May 28, 2005 04:04 PM
No one has to "lay a finger" on Mecca or Medina. A nameless, faceless military techician will "lay a finger" on two little buttons, the finger will exert a little pressure on the buttons, and bye-bye Mecca and Medina. Sort of like the remote control bombs terrorists in Iraq are using against American troops.
Do you think allah will zap an invisible shield around these two Arabian cities to protect them from harm? Or maybe redirect the missles towards Israel? I can assure you, allah won't save the day, should it ever come. I hope it doesn't, but that is entirely up to the ayatollahs and the fifty million (give or take) muslims who would delight in severely attacking Israel or the U.S. and cause millions of deaths.
All things considered, I think the United States has been very tempered in its response to Islamic fanaticism, fascism, and imperialism. I believe that many of our military leaders completely understand that Islam is the problem, not just a "tiny minority of fanatics" or "a few radicals", or that "Islam has been hijacked." There may be some new and innovative strategies on the horizon to deal with the Islamic problem, especially within the U.S. It is not acceptable for American mosques to foment hatred against their "own" country; that just won't do. Nor is it prudent for us to allow Saudi hate schools to inculcate intolerance, hatred, superiority and triumphalism in the privileged segment of the ummah, those little rich muslims who are spared the indignity of attending public, kafir schools.
The impudent, arrogant, demonic ayatollahs seem to have lost their holy minds but they can't be crazy enough to threaten us with nukes. Let's hope not anyway, for the sake of Islam and 1.5 billion muslims, or is it 2.5 billion today?
Don't be too smug; nothing is invincible.