Manji: Do Riots Save Islam's Honor?

Thanks for the story...I was actually wondering what Manji would have to say about the Qu'ran situation after reading her book "The Trouble with Islam Today"..this pretty much confirms it.

A question for Irshad and the march's organizers:

Will you also protest the torture and of Muslims at the hands of other Muslims or the murder of Muslims by other Muslims in the attempt to foist a particular Muslim ideology on adherents of other forms?

These far and away dwarf any of the events at Abu Graib after Saddam's fall and Gitmo, and the victims in the former case are generally unarmed non-combatants.

They can gain their honor by respecting others.

islam Is without honor. There's none to 'save'.

As stated before, this woman is a canard and apologist for islam. She's been agitating here in canada for the better part of fifteen years, the doublespeak coming from her is incredulous. She's a plant, from the pakistani reservation of jihadist sympathizers. Consider her bio, the massadra educated lesbian? The contradictions are to conspicuous to ignore.

the incidents at abu graib were not torture. tasteless, yes.
because islam and media say it is torture does not make it true.
Lets behead several muslim prisoners, after putting their loved ones and them through a horrific ordeal of mental and physical abuse. Make a video. Send it to the media. THAT would be torture.
Flushing a worthless book, that states the desires and whims of a pedophile is not torture, nor does it constitute justification for killing people.
The cult of islam is null.

Newtopia,

She is at least discussing the negative side of islam, which is something few others do. How has she been agitating?

Geoff

Wonderful: My labtop works! Today from Hong Kong:

These guys in Gitmo have been treated with velvet gloves. Given that our boys are fighting against phantoms and ragtag 'insurgents' who murder without blinking I can only wonder about how much restraint has been practised so far and at what cost.

We are not making friends, billions are down the tube and more than 1500 of our boys dead. And just what is the purpose of keeping the terrorists alive? Look at Muktar al Sadre, first he was on the list 'dead or alive' and now he is back grandstanding again? Why isn't he roasted?

Either you fight to win or you better not fight at all. What the Bush administration is doing here is pathetically naive. One wonders if there is any policy at all...

I agree with Geoff.
Anyone willing to speak even remotely against Islam is a potential allie.

The sincerity and earnestness with which some people equate a butt pyramid and panties on the head with torture makes me want to gag.

Ask some of our returned POWs from Vietnam if they would have taken panties on the head rather than some of the things that happened to them.

I can't believe we are letting the enemy say this is torture and then agreeing with them.

Put some panties on their heads right before you saw them off with a dull knife. Now that's torture.

Well, I've witnessed her assent in the canadian media. She started out by being given a forum from the leftist elite on TVO and other media organizations to go on a every white is closet racist theme. She has attacked canadian values and tradition relentlessly.

Don't you think her history is suspect? Normally she would have been instantly killed by other muslims, do you think some sleepy cop hanging around her could stop it? I would say her behaviour is not conciously conspiratorial, but she behaves instinctively in the classic form of taqiyah (hopefully the spelling is correct) of deceiving the infidel. Her propaganda serves to confuse infidels of the true nature of islam, which it seems is working quite well. Think carefully about her use of language, its not islam she's critising but those who claim to be in authority to own its current interpretation.

As many here would acknowledge, islam is arab imperialism masquerading as a religion. A counterfiet,copy-cat ideology pilfered from Judaism and Christianity. Giving it legitimacy as a truly spiritual belief system held in good faith may be the greatest intellectual error in history.

I wasn't advocating sawing off heads in my post above. I just wanted a clearer picture of what real torture is.

The sincerity and earnestness with which some people equate a butt pyramid and panties on the head with torture makes me want to gag.

Ask some of our returned POWs from Vietnam if they would have taken panties on the head rather than some of the things that happened to them.

I can't believe we are letting the enemy say this is torture and then agreeing with them.

Put some panties on their heads right before you saw them off with a dull knife. Now that's torture.

As many here would acknowledge, islam is arab imperialism masquerading as a religion. A counterfiet,copy-cat ideology pilfered from Judaism and Christianity. Giving it legitimacy as a truly spiritual belief system held in good faith may be the greatest intellectual error in history.
Posted by: newtopia

Yes, It will be a big job to deligitimize Islam, but a very important one. This site works hard at it. We should have a clearing house of ideas somewhere. Little things we can all do to help.

There seems to be a select group of moderate Muslims such a Manji who are calling for reform in Islam. Two questions come to mind. First, are they doing enough to push reform? How long can she and others write op-ed pieces about the need to reform Islam without any real reform occuring? There seems to be a cottage industry of so-called moderate Muslims(which the mainstream media embraces) advocating for reform in Islam, yet is anything changing? Which brings up the second question. Can Islam be reformed? I used to think that Islam can be reformed, but not any more.

(I was talking to a Muslim college student the other day and asked her about Irshad Manji. She told me that she and her friends don't consider Manji to be a true Muslim at all. She stated that Islam is perfect and that Manji's Operation Ijtihad is a joke.)

Aca-dhimmi-a just eats it UP whenever Muslims gather and somehow manage not to murder anybody. "SEE how PEACEFUL they are?" It's a bullshyte facade, lipstick on a pig, and a thin disguise like when Ted Bundy would pretend to be a "nice man" to get women to trust him.

They can gain their honor by respecting others.

I agree DC. The problem though is honor and respect get a lot of lip service by Muslims but their words and actions betray a deep lack of self respect and personal honor.

If Islam truly instilled people with a sense of destiny and purpose then Muslims wouldn’t be so easily swayed by rumor and led by their emotions. Judging them by their fruits, which is just looking at the outward manifestations of their inner lives, we see fear, confusion, and death. What does that say about Islam and Muslims in general? A lot I’d say. It speaks volumes as to why they show so little respect for others. If Islam seems to instill anything in its followers it seems to be symptoms of mental illness.

f.g.

newtopia:

I can't say I've followed Irshad Manji's career closely, but she isn't Pakistani. She was born in Uganda (very likely her parents were kicked out by Idi Amin) which means she is likely Ismali. There are many Ismali Muslims in Toronto who left Uganda as refugees with nothing and have become quite successful in business.

May 18, 2005

http://www.beecy.net/frank/
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,156887,00.html

At Least 3 Held in Italian Terror Raids
Wednesday, May 18, 2005

ROME — Police arrested at least three terror suspects Wednesday during raids in northern Italy in a crackdown on two extremist cells accused of planning attacks in Italy and abroad, officials said.
MY Favortie song is by “Marina Rei” “la primavera”!!!

http://www.political-news.org/breaking/10732/fbi-grenade-at-bush-rally-was-live.html
FBI: Grenade at Bush Rally Was Live (AP)
TBILISI, Georgia - The FBI on Wednesday said a grenade found amid the crowd during last week's speech by President Bush in this former Soviet republic was capable of exploding.
The statement by agent Brian Parmen contradicted initial reports by Georgian officials that the grenade either was not in condition to explode or that it was a so-called "engineering grenade" that wouldn't be fatal except at extremely close range.
Parmen also said the grenade had been thrown and fell on a girl in the crowd. That also was odds with statements by Georgian officials, who said it was not thrown.
Bush spoke to tens of thousands of people in Freedom Square, a main plaza in Tbilisi, the Georgian capital, on May 10. The crowd response was overwhelming favorable and Bush spoke in strong support of Georgia's efforts at democratic development following the Rose Revolution of 2003.
PEOPLE KEEP UP YOUR PRAYERS!!!!

NEWSWEEK LIED AND PEOPLE DIED!! WHO READS NEWS WEEK OH I KNOW IT IS ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND THEIR SUPPORTERS LOOK AT HOW MANY MULSUMS ROIT OVER A RUMMOR IN NEWSWEEK????

http://www.voice.com.cy/EditModule.aspx?tabid=23&mid=328&def=News%20Article%20View&ItemId=182
WASHINGTON, DC-American Hellenic Institute president Gene Rossides made the following statement today on Annan Plan-5:
The Annan-5's political and economic corruption provisions
Deputy Assistant Secretary for European and Eurasian Affairs Ms. Laura Kennedy departed May 1st for travel to Ankara, Athens, Nicosia, Brussels and London. The purpose of her trip as stated on April 26 by the State Department deputy spokesman, Adam Ereli, "is to consult with the parties on the way forward regarding a Cyprus settlement, as well as on bilateral issues."
Mr. Ereli added that "our position is that the Annan plan offers the best way forward for a resolution of the Cyprus issue and that we are working to, I think, encourage movement by both parties in support of that plan." The 80% Greek Cypriot majority rejected Annan-5 by a vote of 76% and the 18% Turkish Cypriot minority accepted it by a vote of 65% (with votes from the illegal Turk settlers being counted).
THIS IS A MUST READ THIS IS WHAT THEY ARE DOING AROUND THE WORLD???

Turkey, the invader and aggressor in 1974, committed massive and horrendous human rights violations and destruction of property. The Cyprus government filed applications to the European Commission on Human Rights on September 17, 1974 and on March 21, 1975. The Commission issued its report on the charges made in the two applications on July 10, 1976. In it the Commission found Turkey guilty of violating the following articles of the European Convention on Human Rights:
1.. Article 2 - by the killing of innocent civilians committed on a substantial scale;
2.. Article 3 - by the rape of women of all ages from 12 to 71;
3.. Article 3 - by inhuman treatment of prisoners and persons detained;
4.. Article 5 - by deprivation of liberty with regard to detainees and missing persons - a continuing violation;
5.. Article 8 - by displacement of persons creating more than 170,000 Greek Cypriot refugees, and be refusing to allow the refugees to return to their homes - a continuing violation;
6.. Article 1 of the First Protocol to the Convention - by deprivation of possessions, looting and robbery on an extensive scale.

WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!

7. Annan-5 fails to provide payment by Turkey:
1.. for the lives of innocent civilians killed by the Turkish army;
2.. for the victims of rape by the Turkish army;
3.. for the vast destruction of property and churches by the Turkish army; and
4.. for the substantial looting by the Turkish army.
The estimated cost would be in the billions of dollars. That is economic corruption by omission.
8. There are other areas in Annan-5 that amount to political and economic corruption.
READ THE WHOLE THING WILL OPEN YOUR EYES TO WHAT IS GOING ON AND WHO IS IN SUPPORT THE UN=LON=ARAB LEAGUE!!!!!

ANOTHER GOOD STORY!!

http://www.voice.com.cy/EditModule.aspx?tabid=23&mid=328&def=News%20Article%20View&ItemId=169
The Secretary General of the UN Mr. K. Annan concealed from the International Community the fact that Turkey continues to refuse to abide by the decisions of the European Court on Human Rights and avoids to inform the public and the International Community of the contents of these decisions which refer to specific violations of Human Rights by Turkey.

WILL EUROPE RUSSIA THE USA AND OTHER LET THE UN=LON=ARAB LEAGUE RULE OVER THEM???

OR WILL THE WORLD TAKE BACK IT WILL AND STRENGTH AND STOP BEING A COWARD TO THE MULSUM RULE IN THE UN???

THEY HAVE A PLAN AND ARE WORKING THAT PLAN ARE WE GOING TO CRUSH THEIR PLAN AND TAKE BACK OUR WORLD OR WILL THE WOMEN OF THE WORLD BE FORCED TO WEAR BURKAS THAT MEANS NO MORE SHORT SKIRTS OR BIKINIES???

I SAY FIGHT FOR SHORT SKIRTS!!!

http://www.voice.com.cy/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=46
Information or misinformation? Why is The Times calling St Nicholas a TURKISH (!) saint?
It is quite unfortunate to witness the distorting (intentional or unintentional, remains to be seen) of history by large and respected mass media such as the Times.

ANOTHER MUST READ!!
THEY HAVE BOUGHT THE MSM REMEMBER NEWSWEEK WHAT WAS THEIR ADGENDA NEWS WEEK LIED AND PEOPLE DIED!!

Asia Minor, or Anatolia, was invaded in the 11th century by the Saracens, who brought great devastation to the area. The successors of these invaders, the now-defunct Ottoman Empire and the modern state of Turkey, are connected to the history of St. Nicholas primarily as possessors of the ancient land, not as descendents of the participants in the events surrounding the life of Saint Nicholas, most of who have been driven away or killed.

http://www.voice.com.cy/EditModule.aspx?tabid=23&mid=328&def=News%20Article%20View&ItemId=114
WHO SHOULD REALLY BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR THE TURKISH CYPRIOT ISOLATION?

DON’T LET THE MSM TELL YOU IT DOESN’T MATTER THIS IS WHAT THEY ARE DOING AROUND THE WORLD WE MUST STAND UP THERE IS NO WHERE ELSE TO RUN!!
PUTTING YOUR HEAD IN THE SAND WILL JUST GET YOUR BUTT SHOT OFF!!!!!!

http://www.political-news.org/breaking/10507/us-soldiers-law-officers-snared-in-border-drug-sting.html
U.S. Soldiers, Law Officers Snared in Border Drug Sting (Los Angeles Times
By Ralph Vartabedian Times Staff Writer
A brazen conspiracy among U.S. law enforcement officers and soldiers to smuggle cocaine from Mexico was disclosed Thursday by the Justice Department, adding to concerns that public corruption north of the border was growing.
Wearing uniforms and even driving U.S. military vehicles, 16 suspects were caught in a sting run by an FBI-led task force. Eleven entered guilty pleas Thursday in Tucson; the other five have agreed to do so soon.
DO WE HAVE BAD PEOPLE HELL YEA ARE THEY THE GENARAL RULE HELL NO AND WE PUT THE BAD PEOPLE IN JAIL!!
NOW DO YOU WANT TO BE IN A STATE OF ANARKIE??

I LIKE WHAT PUTIN SAID DEMORCEY DOES NOT MEAN LIVING IN A STATE OF ANARKEY??

An FBI spokeswoman said the Justice Department filed criminal informations on the defendants, which led to the guilty pleas. They also include: Robert L. Bakerx, 43; David M. Bustamante, 35; Joel P. Bustamante, 33; Jorge A. Calzadillas, 22; Demian F. Castillo, 33; Mark A. Fillman, 55; Jimmy L. Ford Jr., 29; Guillermo German, 36; Angel S. Hernandez, 31; Moises Hernandez, 21; Leslie B. Hidalgo, 24; John F. Manje, 36; Gladys C. Sanchez, 24; Angel M. Soto, 41; and Phillip Varona, 22.

ALL GUILTY AND GOING TO JAIL!!!!
http://www.political-news.org/breaking/10454/lawyer-clinton-aide-never-knew-gala-cost.html
Lawyer: Clinton Aide Never Knew Gala Cost (AP)

By RYAN PEARSON, Associated Press Writer
LOS ANGELES - Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's former national finance director never knew the total cost of a 2000 Hollywood fundraising gala, his attorney said Thursday in opening statements at his federal trial over whether campaign contributions were illegally concealed.
Defense lawyer Paul Sandler said the event's expenses were hidden from David F. Rosen by its organizers, Peter F. Paul and Aaron Tonken.
Federal prosecutors allege Rosen panicked when costs for the celebrity-studded event rose, and they say he lied to the government to conceal it.
Rosen has pleaded not guilty to three counts of making false statements to the Federal Election Commission, which oversees campaign contributions. Each charge carries a maximum sentence of five years in prison and a $250,000 fine.
MORE TO COME REMEMBER THAT TED KENNEDYS SON IN LAW HAS BEEN WEARING A WIRE FOR 4 YRS!!!!

http://www.political-news.org/breaking/9547/florida-governor-signs-deadly-force-law.html#comments
Florida Governor Signs Deadly Force Law (Reuters)
By Michael Peltier
TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (Reuters) - Florida Gov. Jeb Bush signed a new anti-crime law on Tuesday that allows people to kill in self-defense without first trying to flee.
Supporters say the law is a logical extension of common law that allows homeowners who fear for their lives to use deadly force to defend themselves from an intruder in their homes.
THIS IS A GREAT THING THE AMERICAN WAY!!!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,156885,00.html
FBI: Grenade at Bush Rally Could've Exploded
Wednesday, May 18, 2005

TBILISI, Georgia — An agent for the U.S. FBI said Wednesday that a grenade thrown in the crowd during last week's speech by U.S.President George W. Bush (search) was capable of exploding.
OUR PRAYERS DO WORK AS A SHEILD AND WE NEED TO KEEP THEM UP!!!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength, Wisdom, Sight, and Courage to stay the course to Victory to Destroy ALL Islamic Treeorist and ALL who Support them Open the worlds Eyes to their Threat give the world Courage to STAND UP AND FIGHT THIS EVIL LET NOT THE WORLD BE DECEIVED BY THEM AMEN

PS
This means the mulsums were trying to kill our Frist Lady and this is REALLY PISSING THE AMERICAN PEOPLE OFF!!! REMEMBER SHE WAS ON STAGE WITH OUR PRESIDENT THE MULSUMS BETTER REIGHN IN THEIR MOBS !!!!

Rioting sullies Islam's honor. Concentrating on honor is the sin of pride. Violence, murder, destruction done in the name of the honor of a religion is contemptible, demonstrating the lack of respect for human life and dignity.

The gorilla in the room was alluded to by the student mentioned by "nuh." If "Islam is perfect," then the violence, murder, rape, and other affronts to human dignity are perfect examples of correct Muslims behavior as described in the "perfect, violable Koran" that can not be changed. Muslim behavior thus must mirror the Koran's mandates. With this attitude, attempts at reform are futile and give false hope to non-Muslims with the expectation that reform will lead to a peaceful and prosperous coexistence for all. In other words: It's a pipe dream with deadly consequences.

Don't you think her history is suspect? Normally she would have been instantly killed by other muslims, do you think some sleepy cop hanging around her could stop it? I would say her behaviour is not conciously conspiratorial, but she behaves instinctively in the classic form of taqiyah (hopefully the spelling is correct) of deceiving the infidel. Her propaganda serves to confuse infidels of the true nature of islam, which it seems is working quite well. Think carefully about her use of language, its not islam she's critising but those who claim to be in authority to own its current interpretation.

Posted by: newtopia at May 18, 2005 10:14 AM

GOLD STAR FOR YOU TODAY!!!

As is our tommy boy!!!

While I think of it 2 Gold Stars!!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH,WISDOM,SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM AMEN

PS
REMEMBER YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE IN THE ARMED SERVICE TO BE PART OF THE FIGHTING FORCES THERE ARE MANY WAYS TO DO WHAT YOU CAN!!!

Do they know how to spell 'honor'?

They can't possibly know what it means!

Honor in killing, stoning, throwing acid and handgrenades at women and children, Bali, Beslan, 9/11, Moskau, Madrid and thousends of atrocities, too many to list...

As honorable as Pol Pot, honorable like Adolph Hitler and the Nazis, worse than Stalin: No honor in Islam!

I don't trust any of them. Until I see them confronting the jihadis, face to face, I will continue to be doubtful.

Manji asks:

"Will they also speak out against the bloody, fiery riots that, in the name of honoring Islam, are killing an increasing number of Muslims and non-Muslims?"

And she adds: "It's a question worth asking."

To which Robert Spencer adds: "Indeed it is."

To which I add: No it is not. It is NOT a question worth asking. We already know the answer: it is the answer that is worth telling. It is the answer that is worth screaming from the rooftops:

MUSLIMS WILL NOT, WILL NEVER, RESPECT LIFE AND STOP SPOUTING IRRATIONAL HATRED, INTOLERANCE, WILL NEVER STOP RIOTING, KILLING, EXPLODING and/or PASSIVELY SUPPORTING SAME. MUSLIMS WILL NEVER CULTIVATE THE HUMANE RATIONALITY AND DIVINE COMPASSION THAT WOULD PUT THE "DESECRATION" OF A HOLY TEXT IN ITS PROPER PERSPECTIVE CONTRASTED TO THE MASS-MURDER OF THOSE WHO RESIST THEIR TOTALITARIAN THEOCRATIC VISION OF THE WORLD.

Catherine...your a trip...I appriciate you a lot...as far as your "tommy boy", is concerned, I think he blows a lot of smoke as well. His smoke is clever and highly refined, but it's still smoke. There's something about his presentations that just dont gel...have a good day...

Posted by: duh_swami at May 18, 2005 11:41 AM
;)

"Peaceful" muslim marches...drop a jew or a Newsweek employee, or an American Abu Graib guard, in the middle of them and lets see how peaceful they really are....

While the article is not something that any real Jihadwatcher would write, it is very courageous for a "Muslim," especially a heretical lesbian one, even one trying to sell books. Irshad Manjii is defintely not part of the problem. But as to whether she's part of the solution, there's certainly plenty of reasons to be skeptical.

RugPilots can gain Honor by becoming Rotarians ... and renouncing islam.

Imagine a Jew in 1941 Germany trying to "reform" the Third Reich, who believes the goodness of "Mein Kampf" has been "misinterpreted".

Or imagine a black slave in 1850 in the Deep South trying to "reform" the institution of slavery, but who asks us, "Do you really want me to help abolish this institution of slavery? Why, I can't do that!"

That's essentially what the Irshad Manjis and Thomas Haidons of the Muslim reform movement are, by analogy.

Tommy boy da Reformer
When I read your posts,this comes to mind

Bukhari:V7B67N427 “The Prophet said, ‘If I take an oath and later find something else better than that, then I do what is better and expiate my oath.’” Translated into common English, he just said, “I am a lying scumbag; you should not trust me.
This is how Thomas is reforming Islam By lecturing muslims the fine art of Taquiyah
http://www.iman.co.nz/index.htm?innerpage_n.htm?newsletter/16may03.htm

Sorry good folks I cannot believe the likes of Thomas or Manji
This is why we must free Muslims from Islam. Without our help, death is their only way out..So ”I do not think that the so called moderate muslins will need to be converted.They will leave islam quite happily once the Islamic oppressors and their thugs are removed .A very large amount of muslims are forced to be muslim,by the leaders/clerics who do it for themselves, for the perks of power. They will tell any lie or embrace any falsehood and commit any crime if it serves their interests
History tell us that bad overwhelms good until good cares. Islam will continue to poison its faithful and deceive its foes until the planet is embroiled in World War. That is what it was born to do.
Most rational men and women will conclude that a god who is principally vengeful, forgetful, contradictory, and irrational might not be a god after all. But why should we care? It’s a free world and Muslims are entitled to their beliefs.But the fact is, Muslims are killing us, and they will continue to kill us until we have the good sense to understand the doctrine that drives them to such behavior. Besides, the Muslim world isn’t free. It has never been free.
Okay, so Muslims aren’t free. So what? Why are their problems our problems? Because we are free. We have the opportunity and responsibility to diagnose this disease before it consumes our life, liberty, and prosperity as it has theirs.
Islam has predicted its own demise. It will be extinguished as it was born. Muhammad was unable to give his followers a reason to live, so he gave Muslims a reason to die. And tragically, they shall. Allah’s prophet sacrificed three billion souls upon the altar of his selfish ambitions.MOHAMMED CREATED AS A CULTIST, A FLOCK OF SHEEP TO SHEAR,AND TO RAPE,PLUNDER AND KILL TO SATISFY HIS PERVERTED BLOODLUST?

Be very interesting to see how turn out for these rallies.These will be the REAL moderates

Shiva:

Thank you for the kind words. Heart warming indeed.

I am a lying scumbag; you should not trust me.
This is how Thomas is reforming Islam By lecturing muslims the fine art of Taquiyah.

I beg you my learned friend to provide real evidence that I am practising taqiyya or deception. This is ridiculous. Substantiate your claims.

You have referred to me in numerous posts as a Nazi, Muzi, troll, liar and now a scumbag. You have never come up with a legitimate argument to substantiate anything. In the above posting you make refernce to my involvement in a media symposium at the Wellington Islamic Centre. The only mention of me in the article is the following sentence:

Guest speaker Thomas "Hamza" Haidon also entertained the audience with his experience in dealing with the media.

Your accusation is blind and defamatory. I am deceiving no one. My track record in my community and in the public speaks otherwise. I have not been a vanguard of Islam in my postings, I have critcised Islam in such a way that I have been rendered an apostate. I have teh courage. Where is yours? Yours is behind a computer, behind a nickname.

Catherine:

What can I say. I have dealt with you already. You are ignorant and inarticulate. You have attacked me many times. I have asked you to prove proof that I lie and decive and you produced none, in fact you lied and misrepresented what I wrote in two FPM articles. You also accused me of making a death threat against you, based on teh fact that I called you a hypocrite for applying a double standard (which you then turned to the Qur'an to look at the fate of hypocrites, and impuned that I threatened you. Again, it is you who are dishonest not I.

I certainly do not have all the answers with respect to reform. I may be wrong. My thought and views have evolved over the years. But I never said I had the answer.

Yours sincerely
Thomas

They all want to die. I say we should be generous and grant them their wish, and make it a nice early surprise so it catches them quickly.

Sorry Ciggy, not all of us do. Yet another person on this site saying that ALL Muslims should die.

Yours sincerely
Thomas

Democrats on the house floor think that Police have no training??? I would think that the next time they are in trouble they call an Islamic terrorist mabe they will come to help them??

Vote Yes on the Norwood Amendment pretect the American People from Illegals!!!!

What are the democrats thinking didn't they get their memo from hilliary?????

Sorry for being OT but this just pisses me off it is an important issue if we don't know who they are and they are not lllegal they have got to go!!!

How do we know they are not working with the Islamic Terrorist???

http://www.islamistwatch.org/main.html
A Letter From Osama bin Laden to the American People
released to press 11-17-2002 or thereabouts

Why teaching the truth about history is so important??

http://www.islamistwatch.org/main.html
Jihad against Jews and Crusaders
issued by The World Islamic Front, Feb 23, 1998

http://www.islamistwatch.org/main.html
Declaration of War on America
August 23, 1996 Hindukush Mountains, Khurasan, Afghanistan
By Usama Bin Laden

WHAT WERE OUR CONGRESS AND PRESIDENT CLINTON DOING WHEN THIS MONSTER DECLAIRED WAR ON THE USA??

THAT IS NOW OLD NEWS TIME TO MOVE ON AND DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE IN THIS WAR THAT HAS BEEN DECLAIRED ON THE USA!!

TIME TO FIGHT FOR SHORT SKIRTS AND BEER AND WINE!!

THIS MONSTER[which I think is changed his sex??] HAS HIS ARMYS LOBBING OUR GOVERNMENT THEY HAD BETTER STAND UP FOR AMERICA THE STAKES ARE TO HIGH FFOR THEIR SILLY GAMES!!

HELLO!!!

http://www.latinodawah.org/
Latino American Dawah Organization
Latino American Dawah Organization(LADO) is a nonprofit organization that was founded in 1997 by a handful of converts to Islam. Our mission is to promote Islam among the Latino community within the United States. We also educate Latinos and others about the legacy of Islam in Spain and Latin America and provide free information about Islam to all interested parties. Alhamdulillah (All praise is due to God), many Latinos are embracing Islam. Some feel that they are reclaiming their Islamic heritage.

What is Islam? Who is a Muslim?
Members don't create opportunities for LADO. Members create opportunities for Allah. Miembros no crean las oportunidades para LADO. Miembros crean las oportunidades para Allah.

"¡Puro Latino! ¡Puro Islam! ¡A su LADO!"
For all your burning questions...
Call 1-877-WhyIslam
Sí, hablan español

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COPURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM[NEWSWEEK] OPEN THE WORLDS EYES TO THEIR THREAT LET NOT THE WORLD BE DECEIVED BY THEM AMEN

RMEMBER THE PALIS SUPPORT ubl[YELLOW COWARD WHO RUNS AWAY]

HERE IS A LINK THAT WILL OPEN YOUR EYES TO WHAT THEY ARE DOING??

http://www.islamistwatch.org/texts/comms/newcrusaderwar.pdf

NOW THIS WAS WRITTEN IN 2003 BEFOR WE WENT IN TO TAKE OUT saddam[FOUND IN A HOLE DON'T SHOOT I'M A YELLOW COWARD] NOW READ IT AND SEE WHAT YOU THINK???

Remember if you aint mulsum then you are at war ith this guy and his followers because HAVING YOUR HEAD IN THE SAND WILL ONLY GET YOUR BUTT SHOT OFF!!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM SIGHT, WISDOM, STRENGTH, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM[NEWSWEEK] LET NOT THE WORLD BE DECIEVED BY THEM AMEN

Come on, Mr. Haidon. Don't pick on Catherine. I love her posts - her erratic style brings a smile to my face.

Seems like you found yourself converting to a religion you really don't believe in anymore, coming over to JihadWatch to parry with the infidels. It boggles my mind that if you are considered an apostate and you fear for your life, why continue with Islam? It's okay if you leave Islam. Don't be afraid to. In fact, if you do, just think of all of those who may follow you? Now that's courage!

Mr. Whipple, please don't squeeze the koran!

GoodKarma

Posted by: GoodKarma at May 18, 2005 03:43 PM

ROTFL!!!!

Gold Star for you!!!

yes even car spaces??
Some thing for Shiva??
ROTFL!!!

http://www.iman.co.nz/index.htm?innerpage_n.htm?newsletter/16may03.htm

Where Did You Park Your Car?
Anyone who holds a New Zealand driver's license should know the rules about car parking. Illegal and inconsiderate parking outside the Islamic Centre have been an issue from the day we started using this Centre.
The residents parking across the road is for residents, they pay for that space. They have the right to have other cars towed away. The Leaders Real Estate car park is private, yet our members continuously park in their space despite written and verbal pleas and warnings from them not to park there. They too have the right to have unauthorised cars towed away day or night.
With a little effort we can easily overcome this issue. Most of the time, ample parks are available in the streets on the Lyall Bay side of the Islamic Centre.
Here are three major reasons for fixing this problem:
1. We have to practice the Islamic teachings regarding the rights of neighbours.
2. We have to portray the proper image of Islam and Muslims. What we do and the way we do it helps the non-Muslims' understanding of what Islam is.
3. We have to live by the law of the land, and follow the rules governing the roads and car parks.
The Wellington City Council has been considerate in marking a "Disabled Car Parking" outside the Centre, this is precisely what it is - parking for the disabled people. To park in such a space requires a permit.
The access to the driveway is for use by the tenants downstairs. They have right of way, if you park your car blocking the entrance, you are:
1. breaking the rules
2. abusing the space
3. transgressing over someone else's rights
4. annoying the tenants
5. proving your arrogance
6. showing disregard to others.
Unfortunately we are doing all this when we have come for prayers.
Another very wrong and annoying behaviour is when people stop in the middle of the road to drop off or pick up someone while there are cars behind them that can't get through.
So come on, be considerate and park properly. The fact that we come to pray for a short time is no excuse for stealing other peoples' spaces.

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM[NEWSWEEK] LET NOT THE WORLD BE DECEIVED BY THEM AMEN

PS

http://www.beecy.net/frank/

John Quincy Adams Knew Jihad
By Andrew G. Bostom
FrontPageMagazine.com | September 29, 2004
“Unsigned essays dealing with the Russo-Turkish War, and on Greece, written while JQA was in retirement, before his election to Congress in 1830” [Chapters X-XIV (pp. 267-402) in The American Annual Register for 1827-28-29. New York, 1830.]

John Quincy Adams possessed a remarkably clear, uncompromised understanding of the permanent Islamic institutions of jihad war and dhimmitude. Regarding jihad, Adams states in his essay series,

“…he [Muhammad] declared undistinguishing and exterminating war, as a part of his religion, against all the rest of mankind…The precept of the Koran is, perpetual war against all who deny, that Mahomet is the prophet of God.”

NOTICE THAT IT IS AGAINST ALL MANKIND NOT JUST JEWS AND CHRISTIANS??
Confirming Adams’ assessment, the late Muslim scholar, Professor Majid Khadduri, wrote the following in his authoritative 1955 treatise on jihad, War and Peace in the Law of Islam :

“Thus the jihad may be regarded as Islam’s instrument for carrying out its ultimate objective by turning all people into believers, if not in the prophethood of Muhammad (as in the case of the dhimmis), at least in the belief of God. The Prophet Muhammad is reported to have declared ‘some of my people will continue to fight victoriously for the sake of the truth until the last one of them will combat the anti-Christ’. Until that moment is reached the jihad, in one form or another will remain as a permanent obligation upon the entire Muslim community. It follows that the existence of a dar al-harb is ultimately outlawed under the Islamic jural order; that the dar al-Islam permanently under jihad obligation until the dar al-harb is reduced to non-existence; and that any community accepting certain disabilities- must submit to Islamic rule and reside in the dar al-Islam or be bound as clients to the Muslim community. The universality of Islam, in its all embracing creed, is imposed on the believers as a continuous process of warfare, psychological and political if not strictly military.”3

And Adams captured the essential condition imposed upon the non-Muslim dhimmi “tributaries” subjugated by jihad, with this laconic statement,

“The vanquished may purchase their lives, by the payment of tribute.”

Indeed, the famous Shafi’i jurist of Baghdad, al-Mawardi (d. 1058), highlights the most salient aspect of the consensus view of classical Islamic jurisprudence regarding the vanquished non-Muslims “tribute”, i.e., the jizya: the critical connection between jihad and payment of the jizya. He notes that “The enemy makes a payment in return for peace and reconciliation.” Al-Mawardi then distinguishes two cases: (I) Payment is made immediately and is treated like booty, however “it does, however, not prevent a jihad being carried out against them in the future.”. (II). Payment is made yearly and will “constitute an ongoing tribute by which their security is established.” Reconciliation and security last as long as the payment is made. If the payment ceases, then the jihad resumes. A treaty of reconciliation may be renewable, but must not exceed 10 years.4 The nature of such “protection”, i.e., a blood ransom, is reinforced in this definition of jizya written by E.W. Lane, based on a careful analysis of the etymology of the term:

NOW YOU CAN HOPE THEY DON'T MEAN WHAT THEY SAY BUT HISTORY SHOWS THE OTHER SIDE??

Catherine ~ you're priceless. Love the Frank Sinatra parady. It's nice to have a bit of levity on these threads from time to time. (Although Jihad and Dhimmitude is not a laughing matter, sometimes we infidels do need a good chuckle now and again)

If that is the way they act over rumours that someone has flushed a Koran down the toilet, how do you think they'll react if someone tries to reform Islam and remove and change sections of the Koran? If physically mistreating the book is considered desecration, worthy of psychotic violence and threats, how on earth can anyone think changing the text would go over well?

If anyone even started to delete or change sections of the Koran, or declare them equivalent to the OT of the Bible, they wouldn't live to see the end of the week. We would see and endure riots that would never end, that would see thousands and thousands dead.

Sorry, my belief in reformation of Islam was brief but is no longer. A few Muslims who've not had their humanity and compassion destroyed by their belief system, who believe in this reformation possiblity are no match for the ones who'll kill to prevent this reformation. And unfortunately, the non-Muslim world won't be there to aid them either. We're too PeeCee-ified to do what it would take to cut down the violent ones, to protect the pro-reformationists.

Riots protect Islam from debate, from scrutiny, from change.

The Koran does not need to the 'reformed'.

It is hopelessly flawed.

You might as well try to reform a pile of vomit back into a meal.

Just pass it and leave it, and shake your head at those who like its vile flavor.

Read it, and weep.

And then re-read it, and laugh.

http://www.beecy.net/frank/

nuh
Just a good old American Fight song!!

Just trying to do my part but that is one of my favorite songs now!!!

and it is so true here is a story to pove it??

http://www.lse.co.uk/ShowStory.asp?story=NL712421F&news_headline=abu_hamza_covered_in_scabs
UK News

Hook-handed cleric Abu Hamza is covered from head to foot in scabs because he has an ailment that makes his skin bleed.

Inmates at top-security Belmarsh prison in south London were already up in arms about the stink Hamza is causing - by refusing to take showers

Now the Islamic fundamentalist, who used to preach at London's Finsbury Park Mosque, is leaving a trail of "white pellets" behind him as they fall from the scabs.

A prison nurse has apparently been applying ointment but with little success

NOW TO BE HIS NURSE OH MY THAT IS not a laughing matter????

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength, Wisdom, Sight, and Courage to Destroy ALL islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them[newsweek and friends] Open the Worlds Eyes to their Thraet Let Not the World be Deceived by them Amen

We don't need to be told here that Islam needs to be reformed.
Its in places like Pakistan,Indonesia,Sudan,go there and reform your brothers of peace,or isn't the fee good enough.