From Reuters:
WASHINGTON - The Guantanamo detainee who told an FBI agent in 2002 that U.S. personnel there had flushed a Koran in a toilet retracted his allegation when questioned this month by military investigators, the Pentagon said on Thursday."We've gone back to the detainee who allegedly made the allegation and he has said it didn't happen. So the underlying allegation, the detainee himself, within the last two weeks, said that didn't happen," chief Pentagon spokesman Lawrence Di Rita told a briefing.
As an indication of the twilight zone world we live in these days, the 14 (or was it 17?) people supposedly killed in rioting in Afghanistan over this incident that never happened have not been accounted for, so we do not know if those deaths were real or propaganda. Guess we'll have to put up those, "Newsweek lied, people died" bumper tickers. " Gitmo detainees lied, nobody died," just doesn't have the same ring to it.
Nobody that got mileage out of the flushing story will believe this retraction. They will claim torture in 5,4,3,...
Shurki and IA will no doubt claim that the retraction only came about by thumbscrews applied to the "victim".
Are you forgetting about my fellow Brits that were held illegally at the Prison camp, what did they say regarding the treatment of the Quran.
They were held there illegally and were not even charged.
I may not like the Neo-Cons but the rest of the Admin will no doubt reach out to the Muslim World, America has many Muslim friends, I am one of them, and it troubles me to see our relationship hurt by fanatical American soldiers.
.................................................
Bush pledges $50 million in aid for Palestinians
By Wafa Amr and Steve Holland
WASHINGTON (Reuters) -
President Bush pledged $50 million in aid for the Palestinians on Thursday and gave an unusually tough message to Israel to halt settlement expansion and other steps that could block a final peace deal.
Standing with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas at a White House Rose Garden news conference, Bush said Secretary of State
Condoleezza Rice would travel to Jerusalem and Ramallah to consult with Israeli and Palestinian leaders before Israel's planned August pullout from the Gaza Strip.
Palestinian officials were delighted with Bush's remarks, with one saying it "exceeded our expectations." Israel had no immediate comment.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=615&e=1&u=/nm/20050526/pl_nm/mideast_abbas_dc
.................................................
The US is the only superpower in the World, the US has a moral responsibly to be the guardian of the weaker people across the World. It is important that America strives to work for a safer World.
God Bless America and help her in her struggles against tyranny and oppression.
No, what's more sad is the fanaticism that characterises islam and islamic fascism the world over.
And why would what "British" prisoners there say matter anything? Or are you assuming they specifically, as al-Qaeda operatives, have been ordered NOT to fabricate things. Such would be in stark contrast to the rest of al-Qaeda prisoners. What reasons do you have for such a view?
I think that if American has an obligation to reach out to the world (and again - this is based on what, exactly? I mean, why is America so obligated?), it also has to be said that it is long overdue for islam to offer the recognition and respect to the other religions of the world, and to the other cultures of the world. Let us hope islam can overcome its own internal problems and make such a bridge.
I am sure we can pray for this together, Ia.
Imam Geoff
"No aid should be handed to Abbas until all terrorism stops in Iraq."
What??? Iraq??? do you mean Palestine???
"And why would what "British" prisoners there say matter anything? Or are you assuming they specifically, as al-Qaeda operatives, have been ordered NOT to fabricate things. Such would be in stark contrast to the rest of al-Qaeda prisoners. What reasons do you have for such a view?"
If there was ANY evidence to suggest they were al-Qaeda (A group that doesn't exist?!?!) members, why the hell would the US have released them. The Brits have stated that they will keep an eye on them, but they are only saying this to protect Americas image in the UK, this can be seen as being important as America has really taken a battering in the UK.
The were people caught in the wrong place at the wrong time, if they were criminals they should be in prison right now, and I would support that. The fact that the US let them go proves that they are innocent.
Geoff did you watch the footy the other night???
What a night, incREDible, fantastic.
Don't tell me you support Everton!!
Did you see the celebrations today!! I will never forget this victory, never.
The Liverpool lads, Rafa, you did us proud.
We Love you!!!
Why, Ia, innocent people are imprisoned and guilty ones released every day, everywhere. Have these British prisoners actually said anything about the "treatment of the Quran" there? I might add that anti-American sentiment is at an all-time high in the UK, as you point out. Perhaps you need to think about motive.
Imam Geoff
Cross says,
"Shame from constantly requiring handouts from infidels??????????"
Of course not. The reason being that this handout is viewed as jizya, the dhimmi tax being paid to the superiority of Islam.
yes we the citizens of the US
have a responsibility that comes
with wealth and privilege,
a responsibility to help others,
a responsibility to maintain
those standards we set for a moral society.
Lying, cheating stealing, rape
and murder bring suffering
and lower the level of function
of any nation or civilization
from that of laws and agreements
to that of chaos and barbarism.
It is in following the "Golden Rule",
adhering to an inspired Constitution,
along with a vigorous pursuit
of the never-tried political experiment
of the melting pot, that has brought us here.
Other nations should not be forced
to follow our way. But if they consciously
with malice of forethought try to kill us
for not agreeing with them, rape our women,
steal and lie to us, these are our enemies.
SOME military[army] Genral just came out and said OH YEA WE TOUCHED IT ???
Now they have just become dimmis!!!
HELLO THE ARAB WORLD BURNS OUR FLAG ALMOST EVERY???
THIS IS ALL BS THEY ARE PLAYING THE VICTIM???
TURNS OUT IT WAS THE ISLAMIC TERRORIST IN GETMO WHO FLUSHED THE QURAN AND THE ISLAMIC TERRORIST WHO 15 TIMES DECREATED THE QURAN AND THIS IS NOTHING NEW THEY ARAB WORLD HAS SEEN THESE MONSTRS DO THE SAME THING EVEN IN EGYPT!!!!
STOP BEING NICE TO OUR ENEMIES IT WILL ONLY EMBOLDEN THEM!!!
WELL M.JACKSON'S BROTHER IS A MULSUMS MAYBE THAT IS WHY HE SLEEPS WITH LITTLE BOYS!!!
BATTER BATTER SWING!!!
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER AMEN
PS
WHAT IS THE STANDARD OPRATION FOR HANDELING OF THE BOOKS OF OTHER FAITH'S YOU HAVE TO WEAR A PAIR OF GLOVES TO TOUCH THE BIBLE???
MAYBE THAT IS TO PROTECT OUR GUYS FROM THE HATE IN AFTER ALL THIS IS THE BOOK THEY USED TO FLY PLANES INTO BUILDINGS AND KILLED 3000 PEOPLE!!!
AFTER ALL THIS IS THE BOOK THEY USE TO CUT PEOPLES HEADS OFF!!!
TO STEAL FROM OTHERS YEA BETTER PROTECT OUR GUYS!!!!
YOU SHOULD HAVE SEEN WALLY FARIAS FACE WHEN SOME ONE SAID AFTER THIS IS THE BOOK THEY USED TO FLY PLANES INTO OUR BULIDINGS AND KILL 3000 AMERICANS!!
WILL HAVE TO CATCH MONICAS SHOW LATER ON MSMBC!!!
Posted by: Catherine at May 26, 2005 05:56 PM
the President of the USA said he would give 50 million to the palis but it was the arab world who had to poney up the rest!!!
With less than an Hour had passed and the Palis said no that is not enough we want billions???
Cross,
It is insane and that madness seems to be growing.
Take for instance the case of Oriana Fallaci, an Italian hero and a great writer, who now is on trial for defaming Islam.
The dhimmitude expected is granted even in a country which is, by far, majority non-muslim.
Take the case of Pastor Lovelace, the tactless yet guaranteed by the Constitution person who was intimidated into silence, indeed apologetic, for expressing his opinion!
The world should be outraged, but the apathy of, "If it isn't happening to me, I don't care...", excuse will be beginning of the end of what the Western world now takes for granted.
That being, the freedom to express an opinion.
As insane as it is, it appears that we are walking the footsteps of retrogression.
Many Muslims are liars, and nothing they say can be believed. Look at how they behave, it tells the entire story.
The fact that the US let them go proves that they are innocent.
Posted by: ia786 at May 26, 2005 07:08 PM
Not true. Some of these maggots were released only to go back to the Middle East and pick up arms against coalition troops again.
So, this statement is incorrect. Not everyone they've released has been "innocent". The words Innocent and Muslims are rarely used in the same sentence, and for very good reason. Amnesty International called Guantanomo the Gulag of our time.
I believe the woman's name at AI was (Khan)....Is she Muslim? Have any of these pipsqueaks been forced to do any hard labor?
Have they been forced to work until they keel over dead?
No, they sit down there in Cuba, in the warm weather, praying to a moon rock while living in cages, where they belong.
It's a proven fact that Muslims lie and accuse their jailers of torture and humiliation. Liars, sneaks, and cheats.
cross, skeet,
islam has its own logic
where there are no contradictions,
for instance, with ethics,
you can choose to lie or to tell the truth,
steal or be trustworthy, murder or make peace,
according to the situation, and for most situations, you don't have to think about it, It's all spelled out in the book(s)!
If you haven't, please read the islamic trilogy: the koran, allah's words, the most well known but by far, the least important book in terms of having a total belief system,
along with the actions of mohammed and his friends as recorded in two other books, the hadiths of bukhari et. al, and the sira, the life of Mohammed by ibn ishaq. This trilogy of books tell them what to do, along with pronouncements from the learned scholars and religious teachers of their great universities. It is a closed system that can't be changed or altered as it's been deemed perfect and eternal.
We, the non-muslims, don't have to go backwards
if we can agree on those precious principles
that keep us free, never accepting slavery,
working together, supporting each other,
no matter our race, our creed, our nationality.
cross and skeet,
didn't mean to sound so pompous, forgive me.
cross, skeet,
islam has its own logic
where there are no contradictions,
for instance, with ethics,
you can choose to lie or to tell the truth,
steal or be trustworthy, murder or make peace,
according to the situation, and for most situations, you don't have to think about it, It's all spelled out in the book(s)!
If you haven't, please read the islamic trilogy: the koran, allah's words, the most well known but by far, the least important book in terms of having a total belief system,
along with the actions of mohammed and his friends as recorded in two other books, the hadiths of bukhari et. al, and the sira, the life of Mohammed by ibn ishaq. This trilogy of books tell them what to do, along with pronouncements from the learned scholars and religious teachers of their great universities. It is a closed system that can't be changed or altered as it's been deemed perfect and eternal.
We, the non-muslims, don't have to go backwards
if we can agree on those precious principles
that keep us free, never accepting slavery,
working together, supporting each other,
no matter our race, our creed, our nationality.
help, mohammed sent a nasty jinn and it has my keyboad in its clutches.
DCWatson, your "you're a muslim if" list was such a bull's eye. Thanks for your contributions.
cross, thanks,
it's a strange thing, this channeling of a 7th century woman but everyone needs a hobby, and,
azma marwan needs a voice, so things work out.
Posted by: Skeet Street at May 26, 2005 09:02 PM
OH but we have been here many times before they just never finished the Job!!!
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=15201
John Quincy Adams Knew Jihad
By Andrew G. Bostom
FrontPageMagazine.com | September 29, 2004
READ THE WHOLE THING!!
Bemis’ landmark 1949 review also included a vague footnote referring to a work which I located formally in a comprehensive annotated bibliography of John Quincy Adams’ writings, compiled by Lynn H. Parsons 2:
“Unsigned essays dealing with the Russo-Turkish War, and on Greece, written while JQA was in retirement, before his election to Congress in 1830” [Chapters X-XIV (pp. 267-402) in The American Annual Register for 1827-28-29. New York, 1830.]
A brief contribution appeared in the Claremont Review in December, 2002, purporting to summarize the contents of John Quincy Adams’ 136 pages of analysis (although, curiously, never providing the citation, above, for the original essays). Upon reading Adams’ full set of essays, however, it is apparent that this rather uninformed, sanitized Claremont Review piece missed the mark widely.
John Quincy Adams possessed a remarkably clear, uncompromised understanding of the permanent Islamic institutions of jihad war and dhimmitude. Regarding jihad, Adams states in his essay series,
“…he [Muhammad] declared undistinguishing and exterminating war, as a part of his religion, against all the rest of mankind…The precept of the Koran is, perpetual war against all who deny, that Mahomet is the prophet of God.”
LIKE I SAID READ THE WHOLE THING!!
And Adams captured the essential condition imposed upon the non-Muslim dhimmi “tributaries” subjugated by jihad, with this laconic statement,
“The vanquished may purchase their lives, by the payment of tribute.”
Indeed, the famous Shafi’i jurist of Baghdad, al-Mawardi (d. 1058), highlights the most salient aspect of the consensus view of classical Islamic jurisprudence regarding the vanquished non-Muslims “tribute”, i.e., the jizya: the critical connection between jihad and payment of the jizya. He notes that “The enemy makes a payment in return for peace and reconciliation.” Al-Mawardi then distinguishes two cases: (I) Payment is made immediately and is treated like booty, however “it does, however, not prevent a jihad being carried out against them in the future.”. (II). Payment is made yearly and will “constitute an ongoing tribute by which their security is established.” Reconciliation and security last as long as the payment is made. If the payment ceases, then the jihad resumes. A treaty of reconciliation may be renewable, but must not exceed 10 years.4 The nature of such “protection”, i.e., a blood ransom, is reinforced in this definition of jizya written by E.W. Lane, based on a careful analysis of the etymology of the term:
“The tax that is taken from the free non-Muslim subjects of a Muslim government whereby they ratify the compact that assures them protection, as though it were compensation for not being slain” 5
READ THE WHOLE THING!!
Adams’ staunch anti-imperialism, one of the “fourteen fundamentals” of U.S. foreign policy which Samuel Flagg Bemis states, “…we may connect with the name of John Quincy Adams more than with that of any other man” 6, is consistent with Old Man Eloquent’s support for the struggle of the Greeks 7 to liberate themselves from the yoke of centuries of dhimmitude, imposed by the imperialism of Ottoman jihad 8. At minimum, in light of the global war on jihad terrorism, John Quincy Adams’ candid, timeless ruminations should be required reading for all contemporary U.S. diplomats and politicians.
Key annotated excerpts from John Quincy Adams’ remarkable series of essays, are provided below.
Adams on Jesus Christ and Christianity, Relative to Muhammad and Islam
"And he [Jesus] declared, that the enjoyment of felicity in the world hereafter, would be reward of the practice of benevolence here. His whole law was resolvable into the precept of love; peace on earth – good will toward man, was the early object of his mission; and the authoritative demonstration of the immortality of man, was that, which constituted the more than earthly tribute of glory to God in the highest… The first conquest of the religion of Jesus, was over the unsocial passions of his disciples. It elevated the standard of the human character in the scale of existence…On the Christian system of morals, man is an immortal spirit, confined for a short space of time, in an earthly tabernacle. Kindness to his fellow mortals embraces the whole compass of his duties upon earth, and the whole promise of happiness to his spirit hereafter. THE ESSENCE OF THIS DOCTRINE IS, TO EXALT THE SPIRITUAL OVER THE BRUTAL PART OF HIS NATURE." (Adam's capital letters)….[pp. 267-268]
“In the seventh century of the Christian era, a wandering Arab of the lineage of Hagar [i.e., Muhammad], the Egyptian, combining the powers of transcendent genius, with the preternatural energy of a fanatic, and the fraudulent spirit of an impostor, proclaimed himself as a messenger from Heaven, and spread desolation and delusion over an extensive portion of the earth. Adopting from the sublime conception of the Mosaic law, the doctrine of one omnipotent God; he connected indissolubly with it, the audacious falsehood, that he was himself his prophet and apostle. Adopting from the new Revelation of Jesus, the faith and hope of immortal life, and of future retribution, he humbled it to the dust by adapting all the rewards and sanctions of his religion to the gratification of the sexual passion. He poisoned the sources of human felicity at the fountain, by degrading the condition of the female sex, and the allowance of polygamy; and he declared undistinguishing and exterminating war, as a part of his religion, against all the rest of mankind. THE ESSENCE OF HIS DOCTRINE WAS VIOLENCE AND LUST: TO EXALT THE BRUTAL OVER THE SPIRITUAL PART OF HUMAN NATURE (Adam's capital letters)….Between these two religions, thus contrasted in their characters, a war of twelve hundred years has already raged. The war is yet flagrant…While the merciless and dissolute dogmas of the false prophet shall furnish motives to human action, there can never be peace upon earth, and good will towards men.” [p. 269]
READ THE WHOLE THING!!
“Had it been possible for a sincere and honest peace to be maintained between the Osmanli and his christian neighbors, then would have been the time to establish it in good faith. But the treaty was no sooner made than broken. It never was carried into effect by the Turkish government.” [p. 276]
“From the time when the disaster of Navarino ref had been made known to him, the Reis Effendi [Ottoman diplomat assigned to Russia] had assumed the tone of the aggrieved party, and made formal demands of indemnity, and the punishment of the offending admirals. He still manifested however, a solicitude to prevent the rupture of the negotiations by the departure of the ambassadors…” [p. 298]
“Upon the departure of the ambassadors, the Sultan, who must have been, however, unwillingly preparing his mind for that event, immediately determined upon two things; a war with Russia alone – and a dallying attempt to protract the negotiation, and gain time of preparation for the conflict.” [p. 298]
AGAIN READ THE WHOLE THING!!
“The last appeal of the Sultan to the fanaticism of his people, and to the protection of his prophet, has been vain. He told them, that since the happy time of their great prophet, the faithful Mussulmen had never taken into consideration the numbers of the infidels. He reminded them, too truly reminded them, how often they had put millions of Christians to the sword; how many states and provinces they had thus conquered, sword in hand.” 9 [p. 302]
“[More from the Ottoman Sultan’s pronouncement to his subjects]...‘all infidels are but one nation…This war must be considered purely a religious and national war. Let all the faithful, rich or poor, great or little, know, that to fight is a duty with us; let them then refrain from thinking of arrears, or of pay of any kind; far from such considerations, let us sacrifice our property and our persons; let us execute zealously the duties which the honor of Islamism imposes on us – let us unite our efforts, and labor, body and soul, for the support of religion, until the day of judgement. Mussulmen have no other means of working out salvation in this world and the next.’”
AGAIN READ THE WHOLE THING!!!
Justice of the Greek Revolution
“If ever insurrection was holy in the eyes of God, such was that of the Greeks against their Mahometan oppressors. Yet for six long years, they were suffered to be overwhelmed by the whole mass of the Ottoman power; cheered only by the sympathies of all the civilized world, but without a finger raised to sustain or relieve them by the Christian governments of Europe; while the sword of extermination, instinct with the spirit of the Koran, was passing in merciless horror over the classical regions of Greece, the birth-place of philosophy, of poetry, of eloquence, of all the arts that embellish, and all the sciences that dignify the human character. The monarchs of Austria, of France, and England, inflexibly persisted in seeing in the Greeks, only revolted subjects against a lawful sovereign. The ferocious Turk eagerly seized upon this absurd concession, and while sweeping with his besom of destruction over the Grecian provinces, answered every insinuation of interest in behalf of that suffering people, by assertions of the unqualified rights of sovereignty, and by triumphantly retorting upon the legitimates of Europe, the consequences naturally flowing from their own perverted maxims.” [p. 278]
READ THE WHOLE THING THEN DO SOME SURFFEN!!!
HOW DO YOU THINK THE PARTHNON WAS DESTROYED THE MULSUMS MOVED IN TO MAKE IT HIS BEDROOMAND A MOSQUE LOOK IT UP THEN LOOK UP PHILLIPPENS AND BLACKJACK PURSHION sp
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST[NO MORE TAX] AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM OPEN THE WORLDS EYES TO THEIR THREAT GIVE THE WORLD COURAGE TO STAND UP AND FIGHT THIS EVIL LET NOT THE WORLD BE DECEIVED BY THEM AMEN
How very reliable a source the Pentagon is...probably the Abu Ghraib prisoners have also retracted their claims of abuse...
The poetess says,
"...didn't mean to sound so pompous..."
Nothing pompous at all in your words. I appreciate them.
My impression has been that fanatics run the world.
It is time that vast majority of non-single-idea persons take control. It is our world.
The fanatics need to be placed on the road side where the carrion eaters feed.
As I drive by, I will salute the vultures. They are so useful, you know?
you make an idol of a rock,
you make an idol of a book,
you make an idol of a man,
three times you sin,
three books you look in,
a trinity for deluded men.
Shukri says,
"How very reliable a source the Pentagon is..."
I actually agree with you on this statement, but what we happen to agree upon is irrelevant to the allegation.
What is relevant is the majority of the inhabitants on this planet don't care about the supposed "desecration" against the muslim holy book.
Only the maniacal muslims care. And those maniacs tend to kill anything and every one in sight. Mainly their own brethren of the ummah.
So what's the problem?
Live it up here, as you do, and just move on...
Thank you, Poetic one!
D.C.
skeet,
yes. let us salute the vultures!
one of my favorite birds, ugly as sin,
eating his carrion, cleaning the earth for us, transforming dead,putrid flesh
into energy, soaring on currents of wind,
flying high,seeing far, seeing clear.
There's an amazing place up on a mountain
with lots of bizarre rock formations
where the vulures rest. It's a little disconcerting at first to look a vulture eye-ball to eye-ball,they're really ugly up close, it's a much better view when they fly.
shukri, where did you go?
Did you go home? Where is your home, shukri?
I had a home once, with children, shukri,
babies and a decent husband, not the best,
but he loved me in his way and never hit me.
What happened shukri,
what happened to me and my family?
Who am I? Can you guess?
If you don't get the right answer
you can ask your imam.
Introducing the winner of the 2005 Miss Kaliphate contest.
Courtesy: Challenging Islam
http://www.challenging-islam.org/frontpage.htm
"If there was ANY evidence to suggest they were al-Qaeda (A group that doesn't exist?!?" -IA
I would have to agree with IA on this. Al Qaeda don't exist - its a figment of the US administration imagination - it saves them from using the word MUSLIMS, when they describe who they are fighting.
Al Qaeda, Shukri, Bin Laden, IA, Brownwonder - they are all the same. ALL MUSLIMS. Its just that the only honest one (about Islam's intentions)in the above list is Bin Laden.
IA - Maybe you should team up with Shukri to find a nine year old wife to have sex with - just so you can be like the pedophile Mohammed (may pigs piss be upon him)
i was just wondering,why it is that if something bad happens to an unbeliever it is god punishing them but if the very same thing were to happen to a muslim, god is merely testing them to help them be strong?
Did the telling about the alleged, now retracted story of Koran desecration "further the goals of Islam using any means possible?" You betcha!!!! And furthermore, lying, deception, misdirection for these ends are permissible under Islamic law. These fellows, the liars AND the protesters, are only doing what's mandated in the Koran. We should expect more because this is what they do! Get used to it!