And while Britain tries to head off a large-scale attack, British Muslims launch a huge initiative -- against jihadist elements within their community? Nope -- against anti-terror measures. From the Telegraph, with thanks to Jeffrey Imm:
Police are to launch the biggest security operation ever for a British election in an attempt to prevent Islamic extremists from undertaking a terrorist attack this week. Senior officers are convinced that Osama bin Laden and groups linked to al-Qa'eda are still trying to launch a "spectacular" terrorist attack to destabilise the country in the run-up to the poll on Thursday, despite 100 arrests over the past year.MI5, the security service, and Scotland Yard believe that the Houses of Parliament, polling stations and senior politicians casting their votes in their constituencies are the biggest targets for terrorists.
Security analysts also believe that Islamic terrorists have been scouting railway lines in an attempt to conduct bombing attacks similar to those in Spain last year, atrocities that are widely believed to have influenced the election result. Terrorists left 190 dead and 1,800 injured when they detonated 10 bombs in Madrid during the morning rush hour.
OT, but I read an item about Michael Howard in the Saturday [Toronto] Globe & Mail, that The Guardian ran an editorial cartoon of him with fangs, asking the question, "Are you drinking what I am drinking?", apparently an allusion to the campaign slogan [Are you thining what we're thinking?]. The credulous idiot who wrote the article suggested it was a reference to the fact that Howard "third generation son of a Transylvanian Jewish family" was perceived as a slippery lawyer.
I know Cherie Blair is a lawyer, but pray tell, isn't Tony one too.
No, I think this is more about what Melanie Phillips calls the Anglosphere's Jihad -- a deliberate, intentional slur against his ethnicity.
Blair (unlike the majority of the British people who seem to have forgotten that without the U.S.'s help, from the Lend-Lease program to ultimately defeating Germany in WW II, Britain would now be a depopulated and devasted minor U-boat refueling station) proved himself a friend and an ally, and for that I like him.
His record (since the Iraq conflict has devolved into an insurgency) seems to be one of naivete about the seriousness of the global war against jihad, and political pandering to the Muslims at home, so I can understand the desire to replace him, politically. But, unless there is a strong anti-immigration candidate who will control the soft invasion and undermining of the U.K., a mere change of party names in power won't get England very far.
I doubt any terrorist strikes will occur, because the Brits are better off left dozing as far as Muslim power seekers are concerned. If they were scared by bombings, they might react by slowing the Islamic influx, watching the in-place infil-traitors more closely, and it could harm the Restored Caliphate's ultimate goals.
Waterdragon
Can you provide a link for the above, I've tried the Guardian and come up with zero. Thanks
Waterdragon
Can you provide a link for the above, I've tried the Guardian and come up with zero. Thanks
Waterdragon
Yes, Cherie and Tony Blair are both barristers, which is the branch of the English Legal system who argue in the higher courts and give specialist advice to solicitors, who are the sort of general practitioners. They met when they were pupils (like work experience during bar exams) of Derry Irvine. Once Blair became Prime Minister he appointed Lord Irvine to be Lord Chancellor (an ancient post, which in practical terms in another country would be equivalent to Minister of Justice) a move which caused some controversy. However Lord Irvine was a very competent man who would have merited the position on ability.
Cherie Blair (I think she still uses her maiden name in court) carried on in practice, became a junior, part time Judge but has not been appointed a full-time Judge, and thus able to rise in the Judiciary. She does a small number of high profile "Human Rights" cases like to shrounded schoolgirl case recently. Recruitment and appointment of Judges is one of the functions of the Lord Chancellors Department. In a sudden and unexpected shake up 2 years ago Lord Irvine was retired (he had an evening to vacate his office) the Department was renamed, and Charlie Falconer, Tony Blair's former flatmate became Lord Chancellor with orders to institute constitutional reform and eventually abolish himself. I await Thursday’s result with some interest. If I'm not blown up on my way to vote.
Big Sleep.
Please. I'm a mild mannered woman but you keep throwing up these comments. I replied to you on the Mother faces firing squad in Yemen thread, but you give me no indication that you have read it. However you are on line to cast aspersions at me and my fellow countrymen (and women) which are not helpful. I see a lot of anti British and anti European sentiments here. I don't usually rise to them, it is unladylike and we are supposed to be allies. But enough.
May I point out that stories of Dhimmitude and Islamic attempts at supremacy in the US far outnumber those from UK and Europe here at JW/DW.
May I point out that many of my parent’s generation remain exasperated that the US came late to both World Wars and then arrogantly claimed all the credit.
May I point out that more British servicemen were killed during Gulf War 2 by US "friendly fire" than by the enemy. US forces were very pleased to have the Black Watch alongside them last year.
It would be counter productive for me to go to stories like Texas man sentenced for aiding Jihadis or Speech by ex leader of Neo Nazi group at Islamic gala appears to be on again from April 29th and say things like – Well what do you expect if you don’t secure your border with Mexico, you Yanks are soft etc etc. So I won’t. But please remember that this is an international crisis and carping from our allies is not constructive.
Thank you.
Granny Weathermax,
I agree with your comments entirely, I have the impression now that the European governments are well aware of the issue and are covertly starting to do something. I also think that if they move too far too fast then we will end up with riots etc. and it is very difficult to get the people to leave Islam if they feel taht they are under attack.
When speaking to my father, all of his friends are fed up with the Muslim population and are really annoyed with the government for letting them walk all over us. The Muslims are universally depised by the vast majority of the UK population, if only they knew how little most people think of them, I know other immigrants to the UK, Hindu's who really can't abide them.
I had a talk with a reservist who gave me some very interesting information.
BigSleep, as a Brit who supported the Iraqi war and has upmost respect for the USA as a defender of democracy I too get annoyed with such comments, we had an exchange on an earlier thread, if you remember. I think that the Western world has to stand up for its values, if you look closely enough, our differences are few and our shared values are many..., yes I think that the French view on Iraq was wrong, but I live with it, don't forget the French secret service has been heavily involved in the war in terror and also French troops were in Afghanistan...
We all have shared values, these values are under threat from the Islamofacists and its better that we work together as much as we can.
Granny W, Daffersd etc, well said. The Americans won't have woken up yet, so I'll squeeze in another comment.
Big Sleep, stop bashing the British - that's what really annoys be about LGF. Bash the French as much as you like, but we're your allies.
BTW you took a hell of a lot of persuading to get into WW2.
'unlike the majority of the British people ' Like you know what the majority of the British people think? That's like saying Chomsky and Michael more speak for the majority of Americans.
Put a sock in it.
My fellow Brits
Bravo, bravo, bravo.
As a 'Jihad Watch poster' I actually haven't posted here for months as I tire of the same things.
I think however, I shall return.
You, (granny Weatherwax, Interested and Daffersed) have articulated my thoughts and sentiments exactly.
Bigsleep; to re-quote my fellow British friend;
Kindly put an American 'supersized'sock in it.
Thankyou old chap.
Regards everyone,
Kc
To the Islamic Republic of the UK:
As an American who has been living in Muslim countries for the past ten years, and has been an active reader of Islam in the UK, I can tell you the movement has already started to change the UK into yet another Sharia based government. Already, you government has to cater to your ever increasing Muslim population to get elected.
Does the UK government truly have anything to fear from these 'moderate' Muslims crying discrimination against them and their Religious practice? One only has to either read the daily newspaper, or better yet, read the Qur'an! The Qur'an is laced with comments Fatwa's ordering all Muslims to kill all the non-believer where ever they find them.
As Ali Sina points out on www.faithfreedom.org/ The Quran is alien to freedom of belief and recognizes no other religion but Islam (3:85). It relegates those who disbelieve to hell (5:10), calls them najis (filthy, untouchable, impure) (9:28), orders the Muslims to fight them until no other religion except Islam is left (2:193), to slay or crucify or cut the hands and the feet of the unbelievers, and to expel them from the land with disgrace.
It also prohibits Muslims to associate with their own brothers and fathers if they are non-believers (9:23), (3:28. Is it any wonder they are building all those Mosque's that are funded by the the "King Faud" foundation that practices the most radical form of Islam; Wahhabism.
Now a good Muslim in the UK will tell you that this is the exception and by and large, most Muslim's are moderate's and only wish to live peacefully in the UK. However, just how does one define a moderate these days? Is a moderate Muslim one who doesn't comdemn all the 99.9% acts perpetrated throughout the world every single day of the year but still trys to convince you that these violent acts aren't what Islam is about? If you would consider these people radical, then you have pretty much eliminated the majority of Muslims as being moderate because when was the last time you read about a Muslim stating in public condemning these acts of Violence. If he did, he would most likely be dead the next day.
While the Muslim Brits are protesting the killing in Iraq, they fail to point out that that the last 70 Muslim's killed were killed by Muslims, they also fail to point out that over 200 Muslim's were recently executed right in front of a Mosque because they believed they were guilty of working for either the British and American forces in Iraq. Have you heard any Muslim in the UK condeming any of these acts of violence? I thought not!
Just recently 50 Pakistani Christians were arrested in Saudi Arabia, their crime, praying in the privacy of their home. Oh yeah, doesn't the average UK citizen know that it is illegal in 21 out of the 22 Middle Eastern Muslim countries to practice any other Religion other than Islam. Of course if you are willing to practice Christianty in Egypt, be prepared to have your home burned down and your head cut off.
What are you UK citizen's worried about, you invited them to your country,now you must follow by their rules. Like it or not, it is their "Wajid" to either convert you are kill you according to their fearless leader Mohammad
“Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you”? (Q;2:216).
BigSleep, Just to remind you in case you had forgotten (or were unaware).
1) Britain had been fighting Nazi Germany and her allies for over 2 years before the USSR and USA were dragged into the war after they were themselves attacked. Britain was not attacked when we declared war on Germany.
2) After Dunkirk, militarily, the position looked hopeless and the logical course of action would have to have made a peace treaty with Hitler which would have been far more favourable than terms imposed after an invasion that looked all too likley. Britain kept on fighting.
Against the odds, Britain (and her allies) kept the war "ticking over" with no prospect of victory until, as mentioned, the USSR and USA were dragged in.
Or would you have preffered this scenario:
1) Britain makes peace with Germany and keeps her empire.
2) Germany with a free hand in Europe concentrates all forces against Russia. Perhaps with the help of other new European allies who see which way the war is going. Russia is defeated.
3) That leaves Nazi Germany with control of Europe and Japan as military superpowers.....How would the USA have felt about fighting them alone?
Oh, and most Britain's are aware of(and are grateful for) the USA's contribution to overall victory. Too few remember the magnaminity of the USA in victory when Europe was helped with the Marshall Plan and defeated enemies were restored to democracy.
Bapakqila
The points you raise are not exclusive to the UK only.
That is one of the points that my British friends and I are trying to make.
Take anything you said and simply replace the word 'Brits' for 'Americans'
i.e.
"While the Muslim *Americans* are protesting the killing in Iraq, they fail to point out that that the last 70 Muslim's killed were killed by Muslims,"
"Now a good Muslim in *America* will tell you that this is the exception and by and large, most Muslim's are moderate's and only wish to live peacefully in *America*.
Please do try not to stereotype.
If I were to do that I would presume I am now conversing with a 240lb individual who generally speaks (rather loudly) before he thinks, with no dress sense and is already devouring his fourth 'Big Mac' of the day.
The Brits have always been Americas closest allies and a little more appreciation wouldn't go a miss.
I echo Granny weatherwaxs comments from above;
"May I point out that more British servicemen were killed during Gulf War 2 by US "friendly fire" than by the enemy. US forces were very pleased to have the Black Watch alongside them last year".
Regards
Kc
And we've got nicer accents than you!!
We should be uniting against the common enemy: the French... I mean Islam.
kc, Granny, Interested, Daffersd and all ye other Brits that visit JW/DW:
WE LOVE YOU! Please don't be put off by a few bashers - did you not notice that we criticize our own government and its policies harshly as well?
The British are our ETERNAL allies. Bottom line. Please don't be thin-skinned - we need each other in the Fight that is to come! Go ahead, criticize us back all you want - we're used to it : - ).
And Interested is just SOOOO right about our common enemy - that one made me LOL!
I have read this thread with great Interest. I am a Brit. Robert Spencer suggests that British Muslims have done little to fight the jihadi elements within their community. This is a big lie. I have seen Muslims fight this disease, I have been doing this as well. Where ever I here about thie Jihadi disease I go and oppose it.
"As Ali Sina points out on www.faithfreedom.org/ The Quran is alien to freedom of belief and recognizes no other religion but Islam (3:85). It relegates those who disbelieve to hell (5:10), calls them najis (filthy, untouchable, impure) (9:28), orders the Muslims to fight them until no other religion except Islam is left (2:193), to slay or crucify or cut the hands and the feet of the unbelievers, and to expel them from the land with disgrace.
It also prohibits Muslims to associate with their own brothers and fathers if they are non-believers (9:23), (3:28. Is it any wonder they are building all those Mosque's that are funded by the the "King Faud" foundation that practices the most radical form of Islam; Wahhabism."
"when was the last time you read about a Muslim stating in public condemning these acts of Violence. If he did, he would most likely be dead the next day."
"What are you UK citizen's worried about, you invited them to your country,now you must follow by their rules. Like it or not, it is their "Wajid" to either convert you are kill you according to their fearless leader Mohammad
“Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you”? (Q;2:216)."
You have pasted absolute nonsense. It is clear you know very little about Islam. You say it is my duty as a Muslim to kill Non-Muslims this is a lie. The Quran was revealed at a certain time, its verses were applicable then. Times have changed. In order to understand the verses you have quoted you need to know about the time it was revealed, the situation of Muhammad and his followers. You know very little about the tafsir of the Quran, these are all important, they need to be understood in order to gain a sound understanding of Islam. Your comments are very offensive.
Islam teaches Muslims to follow those in authority above them. Even if they are Non-Muslim. Did you read that properly, It is my duty to follow the laws of the land, I have done this. It is my duty to obey the leaders here I do this and encourage others to do the same. You have pasted a load of crap. It is a big joke.
I have done so much to fight extreme Islam. I have done alot and I will continue. Britain is my country and I will support her no matter what. It is offensive for bigots like you to use such aggressive words. You know very little. Britain is my home, it is like a mother to me. I love this country so much. I owe this country so much and I will give back everything this country has given to me.
Dear GGW;
Don't worry, we love you too.
I've decided not to be put off by the few 'Brit bashers' and that is why I've decided to come back.
(Although I'm still quite busy with my Arabic course so don't know if I'll get that much time to comment.)
What's happened to the 'Old school' Nathan, DC etc?
Can I take this oppurtunity to remind everyone once again that there is a great 'Anti Jihadist' poster available to download at this site;
Stop these atrocities.
It's the first one about them burning down Churches.
Regards everyone;
Kc.
"May I point out that many of my parent’s generation remain exasperated that the US came late to both World Wars and then arrogantly claimed all the credit."
I've heard the US was the only country to have benefited financially from WW2.
Silvester:
I didn't have the Guardian Link, just the reference in the Globe & Mail to the editorial cartoon.
Here's the link to the article:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20050430/BRITAIN30/TPInternational/?query=michael+howard
And here's the first couple of paragraphs which sums up what Hamida Gahfour wrote under the title British Tories Try New Spin on Old Image (I'm sure the irony wasn't intended):
LONDON -- It was a political cartoon in The Guardian that best summed up British public perception about Conservative Leader Michael Howard. The Tory campaign slogan, "Are you thinking what we're thinking?" was changed to "Are you drinking what we're drinking?"
Mr. Howard is shown with fangs, holding a glass of what is presumably blood. Despite three decades in politics, the son of Jewish immigrants from Transylvania has been unable to shake off his reputation as a shady, bloodsucking lawyer.
"The Quran was revealed at a certain time, its verses were applicable then. Times have changed..."
Posted by: ia786 at May 2, 2005 09:02 AM
If you are to be consistant with that theory, then you are saying that large portions of your Qur'aan are now irrelevent.
Also if this is the case then why was so much of the Qur'aan which is supposed to be the eternal words of Allah, a message to mankind for eternity, sent only to speak into situations that happened in a twenty two year period 1400 years ago?
It doesn't make sense does it 'ia786'?
It doesn't make sense because its not true.
Muhammed fully intended that his/allahs words were to be obeyed through out generations.
Thats why some of his last words before he died were;
" Allah's Apostle said, 'I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah"
Bukhari, Book 84; vol.9, #59.
This is clearly an open ended command.
Thanks, Waterdragon.
"If you are to be consistant with that theory, then you are saying that large portions of your Qur'aan are now irrelevent."
I didn't say that. It is clear you know very little about the Quran. You don't know about the tafisr, you don't know in which order the Surahs were revealed. You are in no position to say anything. You are like the opposite of the Wahabi/Salafist fanatics. You take everything literally. You know very little about Islam. The Quran is the truth, Quran is always relevant. The Surahs regarding fighting were relevant to the people then, there are many lessons for the Muslims now. About being brave and staying together no matter who opposes and wishes to harm you. These Surahs do not instruct us to kill people that don’t believe in our religion.
It is clear you know very little about Islam, you seem rather arrogant.
"O you men, do not wish for an encounter with the enemy. Pray to Allah to grant you security; (but) when you (have to) encounter them, exercise patience, and you should know that Paradise is under the shadows of the swords."
Times have changed. You have got to realise that.
I am glad that we are all in broad agreement and that I did not overstep the mark earlier. (ia69 I'll come to you later)
KC England, I remember your posts from when I first started to read JW. I look forward to reading them again.
ia69, are you a Four Tops fan by any chance? Is this your song?
"Some other men, they long to control you
But how can they control you, Bernadette (sweet Bernadette)
When they cannot control themselves, Bernadette (sweet Bernadette)
From wanting you, needing you... tra la etc"
"are you a Four Tops fan by any chance" Who!!!
"Bigsleep; to re-quote my fellow British friend;
Kindly put an American 'supersized'sock in it.
Thankyou old chap.
Regards everyone,
Kc"
Did you see Supersize me on Channel 4 the other night?
bapakgila,
I am in agreement that its very difficult to be a moderate Muslim when the religion is not moderate. I have read enough to understand that. Yes it irritates me to see that the UK is bending over backwards, but so is the USA. But the UK is not and never will be an Islamic Republic.
By the way ia786 you have contradicted yourself in the above posts, one post says that "The Quran is the truth, Quran is always relevant." and another post says this "The Quran was revealed at a certain time, its verses were applicable then. Times have changed." So what is it? For me its not relevant at all, whereas you think it is. I think KC England has answered it.
Finally while in Blighty last week I read Timeout, Muslims were interviewed about the election, everyone of them said that they were a Muslim first and a Brit second, what are you. I am a Brit first and formost, after that I am a European, I believe in democracy and freedom, simple that.
------------------
I repeat my earlier comments, I am grateful to the USA for their role in defending democracy including the Marshall plan.
CGW ;-) we love you guys too. Remember the Bridge too Far film, those American Paratroopers crossing the Rhine in flimsy boats to save British troops in Arnhem, that was true and people like me will never forget that, we just get a bit fed up with some of the negative comments about Europeans, we are in the same boat and we should all pull together.
I love having breakfast with Americans. "It's BLOOD PUDDING. Very tasty. Oh, well ok, I'll eat it for you."
"It is clear you know very little about the Quran. You don't know about the tafisr, you don't know in which order the Surahs were revealed. You are in no position to say anything."
Posted by: ia786 at May 2, 2005 09:54 AM
(First can I apologise for not responding sooner, as you know its a public holiday today so I went out.)
I have studied Islam for years and have taught on it a number of times.
Lets take a look therefore at the infamous 'Verse of the sword';
Written in about A.H.9 (A.D.631) a year after Muhammed had gone with his army of apx 10,000 from Medina back to Mecca to conquer it.
He had, by this time subdued much of Arabia. Ishaq records 48 different Arab groups had submitted to him.
He had cleansed the Ka'ba of idols and sent letters to rulers outside of Arabia to submit to Islam or suffer the consequences.(Ibn Hishim, vol 3, pt 6, p 13-14;)
i.e. No one was attacking him when he 'received' this revelation;
" Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islâmic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikûn) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât), and give Zakât, then leave their way free. Verily, Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful"
I look forward to your reply.
Regards;
Kc
I like the UK, especially England and Wales. I would like to see all muslims, mosques, islam and all things non British out. When I go to the UK I want to see the real UK not some version of Beirut. Also, I am wrong for thinking it would be best for the UK to get out of the EU?
I have done so much to fight extreme Islam. I have done alot and I will continue. Britain is my country and I will support her no matter what. It is offensive for bigots like you to use such aggressive words. You know very little. Britain is my home, it is like a mother to me. I love this country so much. I owe this country so much and I will give back everything this country has given to me.
Posted by: ia786 at May 2, 2005 09:02 AM
Really? What, were you one of the crew that helped roll that fat stuffed sweaty porker Abu Hamza onto the forklift so he could be transported to jail? Tell me matey, do you believe this hog has never gobbled a frankfurter?
And did I read you write that the Brits must follow the rules of Islam?
"What are you UK citizen's worried about, you invited them to your country,now you must follow by their rules. Like it or not, it is their "Wajid" to either convert you are kill you according to their fearless leader Mohammad"
Yes, yes I did. Fearless leader Mohammad? Fearless when facing pre-pubescent little girls to molest and then penetrate. Fearless when raping. Not a man, but an animal with a pet rock named Allah.
A so-called religion named Islam, which came along and began disrupting peace centuries after true religions were established. ia786, try not to trip and fall on a hard surface, you're full of shit mate, and you'll make a ghastly mess.
Cross - yes, the sooner the UK gets out of the EU the better.
Prickzilla - I'm no fan of Islam, but I think IAS 786 wants a civilised debate so there's no need for abuse. He's wrong, certainly, but well intentioned.
Interested,
Your response is appreciated, thanks.
"It is clear you know very little about the Quran."
Disagree with it = know very little about it, eh?
Same old pattern with the religious crowd, be they Muslim, Christian, mineral or vegetable.
I may know very little about the Koran and, if it wasn't for Muslims trying to shape my future based on what's in the Koran, I wouldn't ever care to know anything about it. As it is, I know enough to be quite confident that it is a load of codswallop and mankind, Muslims included, would be infinitely better off disassociating with anything printed in that stupid book.
"It is clear you know very little about the Quran."
Disagree with it = know very little about it, eh?
Same old pattern with the religious crowd, be they Muslim, Christian, mineral or vegetable.
I may know very little about the Koran and, if it wasn't for Muslims trying to shape my future based on what's in the Koran, I wouldn't ever care to know anything about it. As it is, I know enough to be quite confident that it is a load of codswallop and mankind, Muslims included, would be infinitely better off disassociating with anything printed in that stupid book.
"It is clear you know very little about the Quran."
Disagree with it = know very little about it, eh?
Same old pattern with the religious crowd, be they Muslim, Christian, mineral or vegetable.
I may know very little about the Koran and, if it wasn't for Muslims trying to shape my future based on what's in the Koran, I wouldn't ever care to know anything about it. As it is, I know enough to be quite confident that it is a load of codswallop and mankind, Muslims included, would be infinitely better off disassociating with anything printed in that stupid book.
"It is clear you know very little about the Quran."
Disagree with it = know very little about it, eh?
Same old pattern with the religious crowd, be they Muslim, Christian, mineral or vegetable.
I may know very little about the Koran and, if it wasn't for Muslims trying to shape my future based on what's in the Koran, I wouldn't ever care to know anything about it. As it is, I know enough to be quite confident that it is a load of codswallop and mankind, Muslims included, would be infinitely better off disassociating with anything printed in that stupid book.
1a678:
All the relevant suras have been posted here on Jihad Watch together with hadith and all the other crap that goes with it.
Mohammeds record speaks for itself: A murderer, rapist, torturer, philanderer, robber baron, assassin: I could go on listing to the bottom of the pits to all the cruelties this monster committed. Here on JW we don't need to know more, we know all about 1400 years of jihad conquest, all about outbreeding, hatred and deceit for infidels, Jews or kufirs, and even more-so:
Bali, Beslan, 9/11, Madrid... on and on and on....
Go ahead and read Ali Sina. you might learn something useful. You might realize how evil and deadly your cult is, both for its members and its opponents.
But you'll have a tough time arguing your case with people here: We are not illiterate like most muslims, we do understand. That seems to be your problem, because most of you guys don't know what the Qu'ran is all about. Like one Muzzie poster here a few days ago who called it 'Filth'- if his Imam or Mullah heard it he would have had his head chopped off for that.
But Ignorance is no excuse. Inform yourself before you debate. It helps!