From the inimitable Cal Thomas' syndicated column, picked up here from Jewish World Review, with thanks to all who sent this in:
The Pentagon has acknowledged five instances in which guards or interrogators at the detention facility in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, handled the Koran in such a way as to cause offense to some who believe it is the revealed word of Allah. Three are said to have been three deliberate and two unintentional.Amnesty International has put the United States high on the list of countries it says are guilty of prisoner and human rights abuses because of the way suspected terrorists are treated. The chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, General Richard Myers, rebutted the notion of inappropriate treatment of detainees last weekend when he told Fox News Sunday that these are people who would "slit our throats, our children's throats" were they to be set free.
Islamic countries apply a double standard when it comes to the treatment of "holy books" and people who differ in faith and practice from Islamic dogma. While Islamic groups in the United States are engaged in "sensitivity training" sessions for non-Muslims that have included federal workers, the Ohio National Guard and U.S. Air Force Academy, there are no such training sessions directed at Muslims to teach them tolerance for non-Islamic faiths. Quite the contrary.
While the slightest verbal or physical slight of any Muslim in America is immediately condemned by activist groups and sometimes the U.S. government, the denigration of Jews and Christians throughout much of the Islamic world is theological and political business as usual. Jews are regularly referred to as "apes and pigs," mostly because that is what the Koran calls them.
Read it all.
How does mishandling the Koran equate with the destruction of the Bamiyan statues? http://portal.unesco.org/fr/ev.php-URL_ID=6647&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=201.html
'Jews are regularly referred to as "apes and pigs," mostly because that is what the Koran calls them. '
This is IN the koran, king tolerance. When will You insist they show tolerance towards us? Are you arguing that point on other sites?
Today’s Extras on Jihad’s 5th Column:
Another ‘peace studies’ program:
http://www.discoverthenetwork.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=7117
The irrationality and recklessness of appeasement
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/davidlimbaugh/dl20050603.shtml
Gary cries out: "Jews are regularly referred to as "apes and pigs," mostly because that is what the Koran calls them. '
This is IN the koran, king tolerance. When will You insist they show tolerance towards us? Are you arguing that point on other sites?"
King replies: I appear to have a fan. He posts to me even when I have not said anything in a thread yet.
Listen, Gary. You've taunted me enough now its time for you to quit F-ing around and either engage me in a civil discussion or just waddle yourself off into blog oblivion where a lot is said and nothing is accomplished. Maybe that's what you like but who knows?
The Bible and Koran are just books with words in them. There are people who interpret their words as literally as possible. They're called fundamentalists. Some of these folks go further and are called radical extremists. Some of those people do awful things in the name of their religions. Some "Christians" murder abortion clinic doctors in the name of Christianity. Some "Christians" interpreted the Bible to support slavery not so long ago. These radicals can only thrive in an environment that allows them to do so. Many Islamic nations are governed by the very people who interpret the Koran literally so it is simple for them to thrive.
Conversely, there are people that are able to develop a modern understanding and application of their religious texts, rejecting some of the medievil ideations behind and striving for continual progress. We call them moderates. Moderates are able to live peacefully with everyone else and they thrive in nations where moderation is encouraged.
The Koran is no better or worse than the Bible. Islam is no better or worse than Christianity or Judaism. It is all in the interpretation. Thats my entire point.
Good morning everyone. Robert, the title of this column is merely a good old fashioned American play on words, and is harmless.
But, the girls at CAIR have a different outlook regarding the difference (if any) between the words "Shit" and "Shi'ite".
Here is another whining session from CAIR, who has a short story on their "Incitement Watch" entitled "NY Post Compares Muslims to Excrement"
http://www.cair-net.org/default.asp?Page=articleView&id=235&theType=AA
Well, I doubt that the NY Post was comparing Muslims to poo, as it certainly isn't a fair comparison. However, this is an attempt to alter the mixing of slang with our free speech.
How can a Muslim group look at the words "Holy Shi'ite" and assume that they are being compared to a pile of dump?
Do they have a guilty conscience? Or are they just the most paranoid people on planet earth?
'The Koran is no better or worse than the Bible. Islam is no better or worse than Christianity or Judaism. It is all in the interpretation. Thats my entire point.'
Moral relativism. Islamist prove you wrong on a daily basis, which is the reason for this site. When everyone is tolerant of them, there will be No one left who is tolerant- save the slaves and 2nd-class citizens known as Dhimmis. They'll have to tolerate their masters.
Sheesh KT "they are like onto us as we are onto them blah blah etc etc, LIES SIR! .......sigh ok back to basics once again.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/757606/posts
should be enough for now...... no need to even scroll down..... the first few paragraphs adequately illustrate the point.
The Koran is no better or worse than the Bible. Islam is no better or worse than Christianity or Judaism. It is all in the interpretation. Thats my entire point.
Well apparently the Koran is interpretted in such a way by the majority of the Islamic world that it puts itself diametrically opposed to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. That is our point.
When those fearsome Anabaptists start making world headlines with their violent intolerance it might take some of the unfair attention being off of the current brand of Islam widely practiced in the world today. What are the chances of that you think?
forbidden grok
That should have read, "When those fearsome Anabaptists start making world headlines with their violent intolerance it might take some of the unfair attention off of the current brand of Islam widely practiced in the world today."
fubared grammar
I don't know but I've heard that some of the Korans that the Council on Islamic Relations is giving away are being ordered for some kind of event this coming Independence Day.
I don't know what is going to happen, but I get the feeling that it's not going to be good for the Koran.
A civil discussion? Wow. Yes, your trend thus far has certainly been civil - after I gave you the slapdown, that is. Whatever.
The Bible and Quran are, indeed, "just books with words in them". Of course, "Mein Kampf" is similarly, "just a book with words in it". The "Satanist's Bible" is also, of course, "just a book with words in it". Lists of Jews massacred in Europe, too, were really only lists of words. The "Red Book", "Das Kapital" and the like were also merely books with words in them.
Of course, their impact was far more substantial.
One could interpret the Bible as literally as one liked, but to get the same effect as literal interpretation of Islam, you'd have to ignore the message of the NT altogether and go straight to the OT, and to certain passages therein, some of which are reckoned to be the word of God, and some of which may well merely be ancient history.
Ooooh - fundamentalist Christians. Nasty folks! Of course, there's almost none whatsoever, and compared to fundamentalist muslims these guys are more like Keebler Elves than fascists, but what a great comparison. And it's true that some Christians used the Bible to support slavery "not so long ago" (only 150 years, but, heck, who's counting? Maybe KT remembers those days more directly, being hugely older than I. Ah well.)
KT begins to show promise: These radicals can only thrive in an environment that allows them to do so.
Good try, KT; you CAN teach an old dog new tricks!
The "environment" in which they survive is that most hated and despised formula: a monoculture based on a single view - that there is only one god, 'allah', and that Mohammed was the messenger of this 'allah'. This of course requires that all other religions be viciously suppressed, for are they not perverse and evil in the sight of allah?
So if we're to pretend that your point is realistic - that this is a function of politics rather than the supportable interpretation of islamic dogma - this would mean that the only reason that dhimmitude (you do know what that means, doncha? natch) would be when islam has been governed by tyrants. Of course, it's hard to think of a time when that wasn't true, actually. So when exactly have the "dhimmi gloves" been off, punk? When have non-muslims - or women - not been ruthlessly retricted by muslim society? Hmmmmm. I think that was sometime between "never" and "never going to happen", I guess. Maybe you have the exact dates.
Funny, though - there was one muslims society recently in which non-muslims were reasonably well protected and where women were actually liberated from the burkha. Admittedly, other crimes were necessary from the regime's perspective (those darn politics again) but there was some real protection from discrimination. Can you guess when that was, little KT? Can ya?
Saddam Hussein's Iraq, mini-brain. The socialist dicatorship. The one that limited islamic input into society. Hence, the least "islamic" (islam meaning, of course, slavery - not peace) of them all.
KT blathers: The Koran is no better or worse than the Bible. Islam is no better or worse than Christianity or Judaism.
Regrets, but to make this "point" you have to actually read at least one of those books. Two would really be better, but I don't want to ask too much.
pwnage!
Imam Geoff
The Bible is not a book to be believed, it is to be understood, you either understand it or you dont. The Quran is a book to be believed only, because understanding it leads to rejection.
Blind believership is required. Apostacy exists because of the understand and reject phenomena.
The death penalty for apostacy exists because "understanding" is the death of Islam.
Brilliant, and very funny post Imam Geoff :-)
I always find it odd that dropping the islamic war manual on the floor incites muslims in their thousands onto the streets in a foaming at the mouth rage, swiftly followed by razing KFC. But of course, these are just high jinks, jolly japes by the tiny monorty of radicals and we must not judge all muslims by these little indiscretions.
O KingTolerance
O KingTolerance
Pensez-vous?
Pensez-vous?
Ou est ton argument?
Ou est ton argument?
Sur la terre
Sur la terre
Imam Geoff
PS: That reminds me: it's true that some Christians used the Bible to support slavery, in ages past when King was in puberty. Then, of course, a whole bunch of others used it to free those same slaves. Strangely enough, this occurred during the very same time perio K/T Boundary-Boy was referring to. History - funny, huh?
Meh, what do you care for facts, anyway, though, right? Your faith is impeachable. Allah is your seatwarmer!
KingTolerance
I used to be this stupid when everyone was. There's no excuse for it now.
There's been more than a barn-load of bovine fecal matter emanating from Amnesty International lately. The comparisons of Gitmo to the Soviet gulag and the baseless claim that the US is the world's greatest purveyor of torture simply doesn't stand up to a moment of serious scrutiny. AI will continue to serve a referential purpose, but the influence of this organization is shot to hell by the lack of objectivity of its leadership and its unwillingness to engage in issues such as Terrorism. Thanks to Irene Khan and William Schulz, Amnesty International is hurtling towards the ash heap of irrelevance - it's enough to make anyone genuinely concerned about human rights want to puke.
KT knows very well that the Querran is a war-manual to fight Jihad: To lie and cheat and deceive comes with the birthright of being a Mohammedan, where the hatred against infidels and Jews is sucked in with the mothers milk.
But to strike terror in the heart of the enemy, as well as sawing doubt and thereby dividing us (like"Is it really impossible that there are at least a few Muzzies out there who are 'moderate'") Thats all part and parcel of the jihad.
The bible is 'just a book'-
that's cool baby, I can live with that. The Christians let me live, whether I care for it or not. I am not a Christian and the 'golden rule' does it for me.
The Queeran is not just a book: It is a strategic and ideologic and political document that incites violence, genocide, rape slavery, deceit: you name it, it's all there including the beheadings. That this dirty book exists, (one of the vilest ever written) is already an insult to our values. But that we allow the followers of this cult to live among us and afford them rights which they deny us is totally unacceptable.
As for Amnesia Intern'l being infiltrated by Muzzies you need not wonder that they make that kind of noises: They are not concerned about North Korea or Zimbabwe or Burma: They are 'concerned about their 'fellow Muzzies' and that the Jihad might come to a halt.
It's not only Irene Khan at AI: You also have Fareed Zakarea at Newsweep, and on top of that much of the MSM owned by Saudi Al Waleed. That's why you never hear about 'Jihad'...
Then you have a president who puts his business-interests and those of his cronies over and above honesty and kisses up & holds hands with the Saudi two-faced bastards!
It is a disgrace!
And Condi goes out there singin' "holy, holy holy..."
Given that the lives of thousands of Americans and other innocent people may be at stake in an interrogation of some of the suspects at Gitmo, the principles of acceptable interrogation methods must include something as mundane as 'desecration' (or pretend desecration) of a book, like the Qur'an. Or should we accept the principle that human lives are worth less than a book?
In fact, if there were even some reason for believing that 'desecrating' or 'mishandling' the Qur'an would yield information that might save lives, then not only is it morally acceptable for interrogators to desecrate the Qur'an, they have a moral obligation to do so. This moral obligation would hold for both Muslims and non-Muslims; Muslims as well have an obligation to desecrate the Qur'an to save innocent lives, just as a Christian would have an obligation to burn or desecrate a bible, if burning the bible would elicit valuable information from someone in an organization plotting mass, indiscriminate murder.
To hold that protecting the Qur'an, or bible, or any other book, is more valuable than human life is morally indefensible, utterly irrational, and morally abhorrent.
A book or a life? Burn, flush, or do what you want with the book. Protect the life. Who in their right mind would say otherwise?
Amnesty International has put the United States high on the list of countries it says are guilty of prisoner and human rights abuses because of the way suspected terrorists are treated.
Yeah, and we're on that list too, apparently. Australia. This Irene Khan, who hails from the paradise of human rights and wonderment, Bangladesh, gave us low marks for the fact that we don't throw the doors open to every economic migrant who wants to hop on the welfare gravy train. And she doesn't seem to like our relationship with the US either. Apparently we're the ones going around encouraging terrorism and fuelling instability in the world. Yep, us. Australia. Bad Australia! Bad!
feralee posted:Amnesty International has put the United States high on the list of countries it says are guilty of prisoner and human rights abuses
Its just a list, just a book. Nothing that right interpretation cannot resolve.
A former kãfir who became a Muslim and then apostates (Murtad Milli) is given a second chance; if he repents, then he is not to be killed. But one who is born as a Muslim and then apostates (Murtad Fitri) he is to be killed even if he repents. His repentance might be accepted by Allãh but he still has to go through the punishment prescribed for his treason in this world.
http://www.al-islam.org/short/apostacy.htm
They are just doctrinal words. Nothing to worry apostates. Right interpretation will resolve the matter.
-------------------------------------
The real tragedy in all this, is that our lives are being destroyed by this satanic cult of islam, even though we are not muslims. I for one would be involved in reading works of literature, listening to music and doing other work. Instead all of us have to apprise ourselves of the depravities of islam, its founder mohammed and his vile seminal work, the koran, so we can inform all of the danger that is now becoming ever more clear.
King Tolerance:
"The Bible and Koran are just books with words in them. There are people who interpret their words as literally as possible. They're called fundamentalists."
You know, if you're going to post blatantly false garbage about Islam somewhere, this is probably not a good place to do it. People on this site, unlike, say, Democratic Underground, are going to call you on it.
Muslims believe the Koran is the literal word of their god, Allah. Period. It's one of the basic tenets of their religion. That belief is what sparked the massive riots all across the Muslim world recently over what most reasonable people would consider trivial mishandling of one or two copies of the Koran.
"Some of these folks go further and are called radical extremists. Some of those people do awful things in the name of their religions. Some "Christians" murder abortion clinic doctors in the name of Christianity."
Of course, what KT fails to mention is that the number of Christians worldwide who are involved in such activities could easily fit into the average high school gym, while it is estimated that anywhere from 4-10% of Muslims are so inclined.
Think about that for a moment. Out of perhaps 3-4 billion people who are at least nominally Christians, there are perhaps a few hundred who engage in religiously-inspired violence. Out of 1.2 billion Muslims, on the other hand, as many as 120 million are so inclined.
While I'm sure it gives you great comfort to post these absurd claims of moral equivalence, the facts are simply not on your side.
Keep that in mind as your head is being sawed off with a rusty knife.
"The Koran is no better or worse than the Bible. Islam is no better or worse than Christianity or Judaism. It is all in the interpretation. Thats my entire point."
I don't think this viewpoint would find much support amongst Jews, Christians, or Muslims.
There are certainly parallels between the religions, but Jesus would not have been as controversial as He was if there was no difference between His gospel and the Jewish scripture. Likewise Mohammed would not have founded his own religion if he had nothing original to say.