EMP Threat. Something more to worry about from the G2 Bulletin (subscription only).
Joining Sen. John Kyl, who warned of how an electromagnetic pulse attack threatens U.S. survival, Rep. Roscoe Bartlett, chairman of the House Projection Forces Subcommittee, says an EMP attack – even by an underfunded, unsophisticated terrorist group – has the potential to cripple U.S. society."Today we are very much concerned ... about asymmetric weapons," said Bartlett. "We are a big, powerful country. Nobody can contend with us shoulder-to-shoulder, face-to-face. So all of our potential adversaries are looking for what we refer to as asymmetric weapons. That is a weapon that overcomes our superior capabilities. There is no asymmetric weapon that has anywhere near the potential of EMP."
EMP attacks are generated when a nuclear weapon is detonated at altitudes above a few dozen kilometers above the Earth's surface. The explosion, of even a small nuclear warhead, would produce a set of electromagnetic pulses that interact with the Earth's atmosphere and the Earth's magnetic field."These electromagnetic pulses propagate from the burst point of the nuclear weapon to the line of sight on the Earth's horizon, potentially covering a vast geographic region in doing so simultaneously, moreover, at the speed of light," said Dr. Lowell Wood, acting chairman of the commission appo9inted by Congress to study the threat. "For example, a nuclear weapon detonated at an altitude of 400 kilometers over the central United States would cover, with its primary electromagnetic pulse, the entire continent of the United States and parts of Canada and Mexico."
The commission, in its work over a period of several years, found that EMP is one of a small number of threats that has the potential to hold American society seriously at risk and that might also result in the defeat of U.S. military forces.
"The electromagnetic field pulses produced by weapons designed and deployed with the intent to produce EMP have a high likelihood of damaging electrical power systems, electronics and information systems upon which any reasonably advanced society, most specifically including our own, depend vitally," Wood said. "Their effects on systems and infrastructures dependent on electricity and electronics could be sufficiently ruinous as to qualify as catastrophic to the American nation."
The commission concluded in its report to Congress earlier this year: "EMP is one of a small number of threats that may hold at risk the continued existence of today's U.S. civil society.''
"The number of U.S. adversaries capable of EMP attack is greater than during the Cold War," said Bartlett. "We may look back with some fondness on the Cold War. We then had only one potential adversary. We knew him quite well."
Bartlett pointed out that Iran has tested launching of a Scud missile from a surface vessel, "a launch mode that could support a national or transnational EMP attack against the United States."
"Iran has conducted tests with its Shahab-3 missile that have been described as failures by the Western media because the missiles did not complete their ballistic trajectories, but were deliberately exploded at high altitude," he said. "This, of course, would be exactly what you would want to do if you were going to use an EMP weapon. Iran described these tests as successful. We said they were a failure because they blew up in flight. They described them as successful. Of course, they would be, if Iran's intent was practicing for an EMP attack."...
The same problem we faced against the Taliban in Afghanistan...there was nothing of value to them there for us to hit!
Time we sent a clear and coherent message to every muzi leader - overt and covert, secular or clerical, miltary or political out there.
If you as much as attempt to hit us with any sorta dirty bomb, then we will not hesitate to target that which is of greatest value to you - The city of Mecca.
Don't say you weren't warned.
voletti - interesting that you should say that about Mecca (no doubt Allah will protect it, just like he kicked the Jews out of Israel in 1948, the 60's and the 70's!).
I listen to a Christian Preacher called Chuck Missler (an USA) who said the above weeks ago in a newsletter.
In one of his "strategic trends" CD's he states that Iran has been seen via satellite practicing amphibious landings (Missler is ex military and ex CEO of many a big corporation) and is very interesting to listen to.
Missler speculates that the Iranians could be training to take Mecca - as whoever controls Mecca, controls the Islamic world.
The scary thing about Missler's CD is that Missler also alleges (and I don't doubt it) that the Iranians have been buying top arms from Russia over the last ten years (when the Yanks under Clinton were disarming -"Books not Bombs"!) and that the Iranians have their greasy little hands on Russian Subs (potentially Nuc carrying, & "silent", they cannot be picked up by Yank satellites - again this is an area where the Russians have outdone the Yanks during the "books not bombs" Clinton era), and also intercontinental planes, again capable of carrying multiple Nuc warheads.
If this is true, it's only a matter of time now before we reap what we have sown in terms of what we have let the Iranians have.
They have the toys - they will "play" with them.
Unlike the "Sting" song "Russians" where he says,
"I hope the Russians love their children to"
We must remember that unlike the Russians during the cold war - Muslims happily send their sons off to be sucicide bombers. Unlike the Russians, Muslims worship and idolise death.
Robert -
You might be interested in my website on exactly this subject:
http://www.unitedstatesaction.com/electrical-threat.htm
Jeffrey Imm
jeffreyimm@earthlink.net
They can't beat us in the 21st century, but they can beat us if they take us back to 7th century Arabia - thanks to an EMP.
Besides - if they nuked the cities, there would be less booty (both in material and women) for them to take.
Better an EMP blast than total annihilation - from their point of view. Besides an EMP will also show how "merciful" Allah is - that he didn't kill us all!
Jeffrey,
Thank you! I just added your link - very useful background information and even more scary prospects to ponder while we're raising a glass to the Scotts in Glasgow. (see DW)
On behalf of everyone here at Jihad Watch,
Thank you for your invaluable assistance.
All my very best, Rebecca
This is why I keep an old Remington portable noiseless typewriter and a 1960's battery powered, (pre-microchip) transistor radio handy.
Although the carbon paper copies of the JW/DW notes to Mr. Spencer will have to be posted on telephone poles, I guess.
But, I doubt any terrorist will waste a nuke on something so 'benign' when they can have a massive slaughter in D.C. or NYC.
They like real blood.
Digital hemorrhaging isn't what gets them off.
I hope you're right BigSleep, that digital hemmorhaging wouldn't get them off, but this EMP business shouldn't be discounted. What better way to get 'real blood' by knocking out the ability to communicate or function? No way to call for help. No way for the military or police to know what's going on, or to get to areas that need help. No way for people to buy anything (like food, supplies, etc.) or to get around. Utter chaos. Riots. Financial catastrophe. What better way to get jihadis' egos pumped up. To say that they have destroyed the US is enough for them, I believe. Their "Allah" would be top dog, and that's all that would matter. And I could foresee many of our US-hating non-Muslim types jumping for joy too.
They only need to get one of those EMP devices on a freighter and send it off over the Eastern Seaboard. That would knock out everything in the eastern half. Maybe another one off the Pacific coast to finish off the rest of the country. I don't know, this is pretty frightening stuff. I'm hoping it's beyond those troglodytes capacity or ability.
Jeffrey (usaction),
Great to see you on this site. You may remember me as "LibLove" from the Washington Post message boards where I had performed an experiment exposing the proliferation of liberal anti-Semitism.
Of course, you were the only contributor to that progressive rag of a message board who had the decency to slam "LibLove" for being a no good anti-Semite, and for that you'll always have my respect.
Just to let you know, the subsequent story I wrote from that disturbing test appeared as an op-ed in the Jewish Press two weeks ago, and you were an important part of it.
Check out the story at my website,
www.madzionist.com, in the "MZ Opinions" section.
The title of the column is "Liblove", and I think you'll appreciate it.
All the best,
-Madzionist
If I had to choose, an EMP weapon would be preferable to a biological or a nuclear weapon. Granted my computer and home theater would be fried, but I would be alive and probably highly annoyed with firearms that work perfectly and way to much time on my hands.
Silly question ... See, I'm an ham radio operator, and far as I recall, rf energy, which I think an EMP would be, attenuates with the inverse cube of the distance. Sure, a blast 400km up might be able to "see" the whole US of A, but will such a blast, at that range, actually wipe us out?
I have no idea just how much energy is in such a pulse. I know it's non-trivial, and likely depends on how big a bomb is used. Does anybody out there have more information about this?
If I'm right, it may well be that such a blast here would do some smallish damage, and give us a hella excuse to unleash the wrath of Allah upon all their heads. As an added bonus, it just might shut up some of the (surviving) moonbats.
Many thanks to Jeffrey Imm for his EMP material. Must be a case of synchronicity (Sting again) since I first came across your site a few days ago due to my interest in Faraday Cages. That has nothing to do with protecting from EMP weaponry.
Thanks Jeff for your fine EMP protection pages
Folks this is serious business. Please spread the word. I don't think the MSM has the time with GITMO and contemplating their navels.
Here's a msg I just posted to some others:
*****
ZAP - UH OH! Did Someone Mention EMP Weapons?
The Real Danger Poised by EMP Weapons Deployed by Iran with Help of AQ
HT to Jihad Watch. Good link to definition and overview of EMP weapons.
OK folks, you heard it from me before but now it's coming from an official governmental source -
And guess who is doing research on shipped launched EMP weapons - IRAN! It won't take a very sophisticated device. All that is needed is to launch a crude nuclear device a few hundred kilometer up over the US.
Thank you China and North Korea for giving missle and nuclear technology to Iran. Use fanatical third parties to do the dirty work for you. FOX Network's "24 Hours" is a better predictor of possible terrorists strikes than the government's intel resources.
Now guess who has a fleet of "Ghost Ships?" That's right, al Queda!
OK folks - connect the "dots."
A cargo junker off the Northeast Coast launches a Scud missle with a crude nuclear device. Please remember the fraility of the Northeast Power Grid. I hope this catches your attention. I hope you see now see the reason we must do everything possible to take out the Iranian Regime and it's henchmen.
Yes, this is a very credible threat that has the potential to interfere most definitely with your morning coffee latte.
Now's the time for all Americans to either stand up for what is right or shut up, or get off the stage and quit whining about GITMO! The American people need to unit both left and right to crush the enemy in the GWOT and wiped their cult like religious ideology of hate and evil, Islamofascism, from the 12th Century from the face of the earth.
A strategic window of opportunity is now opening to deliver a crushing if not a fatal blow to the enemy with the fall of the Iranian Regime. The consequences of the Mad Mullahs going nuclear are unimaginable. This administration will not blink for one moment and will not allow this to occur. Our Euro Weenie friends can just shove it!
There is a beter way without a direct confrontation. Here's how you can help.
Dr Zin (www.regimechangeiran.com)and the SMCCDI can use everyone's help RIGHT NOW!
MAY GOD BLESS AMERICA - AMEN!
Pity some other topics discussed in the G2 Bulletin
were not touched on to illustrate how other US actions or lack thereof help to stimulate Iran, and others in this war, to proceed and ignore the US.
I guess if Iran tried the EMP they would have the satisfaction of knowing they'd temporarily crippled the US. Their satisfaction would be far more temporary than America's downtime though. I'd estimate it to be the flight-time of a submarine-launched ICBM.
EMP also covered in some detail in Imprimis 6/05 - article by Frank J. Gaffney Jr. Imprimis is published by Hillsdale college. (www.hillsdale.edu).
The Iranian - Cuban connection may be a threat in this regard. Castro has always regretted that he did not get the chance to launch when Kennedy and Kruschev had their dust-up in '62. He has had moulahs in Havana over the past year ... it would be interesting to know what they were (are?) up to. As I recall Castro actually built launch pads under Soviet direction, but the missiles were stopped from coming at sea. Are the launch pads still functional? Surely (?) our intel guys know where the pads are at and are monitoring them...surely.
feralee-
As 9/11 showed, Americans are a pretty cool bunch under fire.
I can't see the apocalyptic scenario unfolding (riots, loooting, etc.) on any serious scale (there are always some opportunistic scum). What I would expect would be:
FURY.
At having to wait in line for food because the cash registers were being replaced by old hand-cranked adding machines (there are plenty lying around that could be called into temporary service) while new computers and connective electronics systems and relaying devices were being brought in and hooked up.
And, from this FURY, the desire to STRIKE BACK.
All they would need is a TARGET.
Iran would seem to be high up on the list. (Although if it were Pakistan or North Korea, etc., they would get hit first.)
Plus, as Bar notes, firearms don't have any microchips to fry (yet).
And we have nuke-armed subs and warships at sea at all times, so any nation-state suicidal enough to abet such an attack would be in Allah's claws before the next dawn rose.
(Should I be buying some homing pigeons? They're also good with a fine bechamel sauce. SEE:)
http://www.chilipaper.com/FRecipes/Fsides/Fveggies/bechamel_sauce.htm
"And we have nuke-armed subs and warships at sea at all times, so any nation-state suicidal enough to abet such an attack would be in Allah's claws before the next dawn rose."
I agree. MAD makes any nuclear ballistic missile attack on the USA very unlikely. In the Cold War the US military prepared for EMP attack and designed tougher electronics that would continue to function after an EMP, so I think that a land-based ICBM retaliation would be unimpeded, and if not then the submarines will toast anyone foolish enough to launch nuclear weapons against the USA. Far more likely that a small nuclear device will be smuggled into a port or city disguised as cargo (there can be no retaliation if nobody knows who did it). Which is why the Bush Adminstration's decision to cut anti-proliferation spending while throwing millions into missile defence was such a bad idea.
I know I will probably be howled down as being negative when I say this but...
If September 11 was not enough to wake up the USA, do you really think that an A Bomb or EMP will be?
Peal Harbor stirred the sleeping giant of the USA back in the 40's - just as the Japanese General Yamato (however you spell that guys name) foresaw. But that was a different generation, back in a time when many were Christians (from either side of the Catholic v Protestant fence), and as for those who weren’t, they still supported much of the moral framework that came with Christianity.
In other words, back in the 40's, the country was much more united, especially after the bombing. The entire country mobilized.
Today is very different. Bin laden ain't dumb. He knew he could attack on Sept 11 and get away with it. Why?
Today we have "Strength through diversity" aka Multiculturalism, where all cultures/ worldviews are equal (very socialistic/communistic) and the USA (as in Australia and elsewhere) is no longer a united country when it comes to such challenges.
Today one man's terrorist is your neighbors "freedom fighter" and to say otherwise (in parts of Australia at least) will see you hauled before the courts. Bin Laden knows we are weak. Even with our affluence, compared to what our parents and grandparents had in the 40's, we are morally divided, and hence much weaker in our resolve than they were.
I once watched an interesting doco on the US Marines where a Christian general said, something along the lines of...
'Look at America, it is going to be increasingly hard to recruit people to die for their country, many are so selfish they won't want to die for their country, and those who are left, would they want to die for the selfish?'
The West needs to drop all of the lefty PC crap that has invaded our schools (as outlined in the Humanist Manifesto of the 30's) that has taught our current generation that "all worldviews/cultures are equal". Sept 11 proved that they are not, and that these utopian ideas cannot exist in the real world where hate is real.
However we are still suffering the effects of the “peace” at all costs “revolution” of the 70’s. Maybe we will wake up when an entire city gets nuked.
These kinds of horrible possibilities highlight the insanity, and unimaginable dangers, of not accurately identifying the enemy in this global jihad, in which enemies of the United States have already committed themselves to acquiring and delivering WMD to American soil.
There exists no policy of deterrence, none. In the cold war Mutually Assured Destruction managed, rather clumsily in a few breathtaking moments, to keep the use of WMD at bay. It worked. But, against the global jihad, it is as if policy makers have given up on constructing a policy of deterrence. Why? The only plausible answer is because the enemy has not been identified. 'Terrorists' have nothing to lose. And 'terrorists' are not the soldiers of the army against which the United States fights, muhajedin are.
Until the enemy is identified and called by names, names they have given themselves, there will exist no conceptual framework within which a policy of deterrence can be developed; our leaders risk the lives of millions and our entire society because they cannot bring themselves to say what must be said: jihad, in all its forms, motivated by well established ideological principles, Islamic principles, supported by millions of Muslims around the world, disguised by governments, lied about by Muslim apologists, threaten our very existence.
We used to have lightning arrestors installed in our buildings to bypass the huge surge of charged particles to the ground caused by lightning during a rain. We still need the lightning arrestors to protect us from the natural phenomenon. These also serve to protect the buildings from the EMP. So, there is no need to be scared of the so called EMP attack. In all probability, it just would not harm us. If you are protected from lightning that occurs much closer to ground than the so called EMP attack, you are surely protected from the EMP too.
What I am concerned is that the “War Machine” inside USA is scaring us so that we would agree to use “Space Rods” to knock out each and every missile launch from anywhere else in the world.
All I could say is: God Almighty sustains His creation. Let us hope that the Americans remove the war mongers from power: the sooner the better.
"We used to have lightning arrestors installed in our buildings to bypass the huge surge of charged particles to the ground caused by lightning during a rain. We still need the lightning arrestors to protect us from the natural phenomenon. These also serve to protect the buildings from the EMP. So, there is no need to be scared of the so called EMP attack. In all probability, it just would not harm us. If you are protected from lightning that occurs much closer to ground than the so called EMP attack, you are surely protected from the EMP too."
We might be protected. What about the electronics on which our lives now rely so heavily? The EMP would induce currents in the power lines / telephone lines, so anything on the grid or connected to the Internet could be vulnerable. How will lightning conductors help there?
In http://science.howstuffworks.com/lightning.htm we find:
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Lightning may cause power surges that can damage your electronic equipment.
===
In http://science.howstuffworks.com/lightning6.htm the following is given:
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Thunder is the shockwave radiating away from the strike path. When the air heats up, it expands rapidly, creating a compression wave that propagates through the surrounding air. This compression wave manifests itself in the form of a sound wave. That does not mean that thunder is harmless. On the contrary, if you are close enough, you can feel the shockwave as it shakes the surroundings. Keep in mind that when a nuclear explosion occurs, typically the most destruction is caused by the energy of the rapidly moving shockwave. In fact, the shockwave that produces the thunder from a lightning strike can most certainly damage structures and people.
===
So, we are living with natural EMPs whenever there is lightning. Now to the lightning arrestor: From http://science.howstuffworks.com/lightning9.htm we get:
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Lightning rods were originally developed by Benjamin Franklin. A lightning rod is very simple -- it's a pointed metal rod attached to the roof of a building. The rod might be an inch (2 cm) in diameter. It connects to a huge piece of copper or aluminum wire that's also an inch or so in diameter. The wire is connected to a conductive grid buried in the ground nearby.
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The fact that our electronics are safe without special protection can be inferred from the quote from http://science.howstuffworks.com/lightning11.htm
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• Surge protectors will save your electronics (TV, VCR, PC) if lightning strikes your power line.
No way! Surge protectors provide protection for power surges in the line from the power company, but not for lightning. To really guard against strike damage, you need a lightning arrester. The arrester uses a gas-filled gap that acts as an open circuit to low potentials, but becomes ionized and conducts at very high potentials. If the lightning hits the line you are protecting, the gas gap will conduct the current safely to ground.
===
From http://www.ees-group.co.uk/downloads/Secondary%20Effects.pdf we have:
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… lightning EMP can propagate a long distance and affect large areas.
===
There is absolutely no need to scare us. We are living with EMP and we are safe.
"Accursed is the one who moves the boundary of his fellow [Jew]."
-Devarim (Deuteronomy), 27:17
I like that Madzionist.
It goes well with this one:
Isa 14:31 Howl, O gate; cry, O city; thou, whole Palestina, art dissolved: for there shall come from the north a smoke, and none shall be alone in his appointed times.
Granted my computer and home theater would be fried, but I would be alive and probably highly annoyed with firearms that work perfectly and way to much time on my hands. Posted by: Bar
Picture several strategic sites being hit in one day [another 911?]
I wonder how many are truly prepared? With food - heat - a water source - and amunition
Hidden bear traps around the perimeters of your house is a good defense....and will save on bullets. :o)
If September 11 was not enough to wake up the USA, do you really think that an A Bomb or EMP will be?
My thoughts exactly 3rdtimelucky
Maybe we will wake up when an entire city gets nuked.
or 4 or 5 all in one day.
I believe it will bring the US to its knees - if it happens...which some say it is not a matter of 'if' but rather, 'when'
There is absolutely no need to scare us. We are living with EMP and we are safe.
Posted by: Mohideen Ibramsha
I'm not scared Mohideen - Just prepared and would like for every other true American to be also
The electromagnetic field pulses....have a high likelihood of damaging electrical power systems, electronics and information systems upon which any reasonably advanced society, most specifically including our own, depend vitally."
If you opt for online banking, it might be a good idea to print out hardcopies of all your statements, just in case.
If you as much as attempt to hit us with any sorta dirty bomb, then we will not hesitate to target that which is of greatest value to you - The city of Mecca. Posted by: voletti
I listen to a Christian Preacher called Chuck Missler (an USA) who said the above weeks ago in a newsletter. Posted by: 3rdtimelucky
Shortly after 9/11, I read about someone who advocated this very strategy--bombing Mecca. It's been a while and the details are hazy but as I recall, this was an author who supposedly became the target of a fatwa because of his beliefs. His theory in a nutshell: hit the muzzies where it hurts, at their holiest of holies, Mecca, Medina, etcetera.
The logic being that it would show the muslim world that their god is indeed a fraud, since how could allah permit such a monstrous act to occur, an act that would humiliate muslims worldwide. Again, these are *his* words, as best as I can recall.
I wish I could remember the author's name. My guess is that 3rdtimelucky's preacher has also read this person's work, and is borrowing some of his material.
Let's not forget that a "digital massacre" would pull the plug on hospitals, most of which have gone high-tech and depend on computerized monitors to keep patients alive. Every critical case in med-surg to those on breathing tubes would be at risk. No, scratch that...they'd be dead, period.
Oh yeah. Knock out those computers and you have serious problems.
The logic being that it would show the muslim world that their god is indeed a fraud, since how could allah permit such a monstrous act to occur, an act that would humiliate muslims worldwide.
Tradition numbered 1371 in the Sahih Muslim collection is reported below:
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Narrated Abdullah ibn Amr
Someone came to him and said: What is this hadith that you narrate that the Last Hour will come at a certain time? Thereupon he said: Hallowed be Allah, there is no god but Allah (or words to the same effect). I have decided that I shall not narrate anything to anyone now. I have only said that you will see after some time an important event: that the (sacred) House (Ka'bah) will be burnt and it definitely happen. He then reported that Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said: The Dajjal will appear in my Ummah and he will stay (in the world) for forty--I cannot say whether he meant forty days, forty months or forty years. Allah will then send Jesus, son of Mary, who will resemble Urwah ibn Mas'ud. He (Jesus Christ) will chase him and kill him. Then people will live for seven years, during which time there will be no rancor between any two persons. After that Allah will send a cold wind from the direction of Syria. None will survive on Earth, having a speck of good in him or faith in him: he will die. Even if some among you were to enter the innermost part of the mountain, this wind would reach that place also and cause your death. I heard Allah's Apostle (peace be upon him) as saying: Only the wicked people will survive and they will be as careless as birds with the characteristics of beasts. They will never appreciate good nor condemn evil. Then Satan will come to them, in human form, and would say: Don't you respond? They will say: What do you order us to do? He will command them to worship the idols but, in spite of this, they will have an abundance of sustenance and lead comfortable lives. Then the trumpet will be blown and he who hears it will bend his neck to one side and raise it from the other side. The first one to hear that trumpet will be the person who is busy in setting right the cistern meant for supplying water to the camels. He will faint and the other people will also faint. Then Allah will send or He will cause to be sent rain which will be like dew and there will grow out of it the bodies of people. Then the second trumpet will be blown and they will stand up and begin to look (around). Then it will be said: O people, go to your Lord. They will be made to stand there and they will be questioned. Then it will be said: Bring out a group (of them) for the Hell-Fire. It will be asked: How much? It will be said: Nine hundred and ninety-nine out of one thousand for the Hell-Fire. That will be the day that will make the children old because of its terror and that will be the day about which it has been said: "On the day when the shank will be uncovered".
===
So, the Muslims are aware that the Holy Kabah would be destroyed before the Day of Judgment; it is indeed one of the events preceding the Day of Judgment. There would be no humiliation to the Muslims just because a building gets destroyed. The Muslims would continue to pray as the whole earth is fit to offer prayer. A Muslim does not seek a mosque to offer the prayer. He could offer it anywhere he is when the time of prayer is due. We quote Tradition numbered 331 from volume 1 of Sahih Al-Bukhari below:
===
Narrated Jabir bin Abdullah
The Prophet said, "I have been given five things which were not given to any one else before me.
1. Allah made me victorious by awe, (by His frightening my enemies) for a distance of
one month's journey.
2. The earth has been made for me (and for my followers) a place for praying and a thing to perform Tayammum, therefore anyone of my followers can pray wherever the time of a prayer is due.
3. The booty has been made Halal (lawful) for me yet it was not lawful for anyone else before me.
4. I have been given the right of intercession (on the Day of Resurrection).
5. Every Prophet used to be sent to his nation only but I have been sent to all mankind.
===
Hence, do not attempt to humiliate the Muslims. Do not attempt to show that God Almighty is a fraud. The word ‘Allah’ in Arabic simply refers to ‘God’ in English. There is only one God, the God for all of us is the same.
Hence, do not attempt to humiliate the Muslims. Posted by: Mohideen Ibramsha
No need to. In light of their backward history and barbaric behavior, I'd say the filthy sandworms are quite capable of humiliating themselves.
Mohididly, are you familiar with the term "Taqiyya?"
http://www.ci-ce-ct.com/Feature%20articles/02-12-2002.asp
There would be no humiliation to the Muslims just because a building gets destroyed. Posted by: Mohideen Ibramsha
Mohididly, Mecca is not a building; it's a city. We're talking about a nuclear attack on a city in response to a potential EMP attack. And for the record, I do not particularly support this "Nuke Mecca" strategy, I'm only paraphrasing what I had read some years ago. I must admit, though, it's provocative.
Dear dead_shot,
Thanks for the link. I now understand the term ‘taqiyya.’ My response to you is the following three Traditions.
1. Tradition numbered 369 in volume 5 of Sahih Al-Bukhari:
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Narrated Jabir bin Abdullah
Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab)." The Prophet said, "You may say it." Then Muhammad bin Maslama went to Kab and said, "That man (i.e. Muhammad demands Sadaqa (i.e. Zakat) from us, and he has troubled us, and I have come to borrow something from you." On that, Kab said, "By Allah, you will get tired of him!" Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Now as we have followed him, we do not want to leave him unless and until we see how his end is going to be. Now we want you to lend us a camel load or two of food." (Some difference between narrators about a camel load or two.) Kab said, "Yes, (I will lend you), but you should mortgage something to me." Muhammad bin Maslama and his companion said, "What do you want?" Ka'b replied, "Mortgage your women to me." They said, "How can we mortgage our women to you and you are the most handsome of the 'Arabs?" Ka'b said, "Then mortgage your sons to me." They said, "How can we mortgage our sons to you? Later they would be abused by the people's saying that so-and-so has been mortgaged for a camel load of food. That would cause us great disgrace, but we will mortgage our arms to you." Muhammad bin Maslama and his companion promised Kab that Muhammad would return to him. He came to Kab at night along with Kab's foster brother, Abu Na'ila. Kab invited them to come into his fort, and then he went down to them. His wife asked him, "Where are you going at this time?" Kab replied, "None but Muhammad bin Maslama and my (foster) brother Abu Na'ila have come." His wife said, "I hear a voice as if dropping blood is from him," Ka'b said. "They are none but my brother Muhammad bin Maslama and my foster brother Abu Naila. A generous man should respond to a call at night even if invited to be killed." Muhammad bin Maslama went with two men. (Some narrators mention the men as 'Abu bin Jabr, Al Harith bin Aus and Abbad bin Bishr). So Muhammad bin Maslama went in together with two men, and said to them, "When Ka'b comes, I will touch his hair and smell it, and when you see that I have got hold of his head, strip him. I will let you smell his head." Kab bin Al-Ashraf came down to them wrapped in his clothes, and diffusing perfume. Muhammad bin Maslama said, "I have never smelt a better scent than this. Ka'b replied, "I have got the best 'Arab women who know how to use the high class of perfume." Muhammad bin Maslama requested Ka'b "Will you allow me to smell your head?" Ka'b said, "Yes." Muhammad smelt it and made his companions smell it as well. Then he requested Ka'b again, "Will you let me (smell your head)?" Ka'b said, "Yes." When Muhammad got a strong hold of him, he said (to his companions), "Get at him!" So they killed him and went to the Prophet and informed him. (Abu Rafi) was killed after Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf."
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Those who claim deception is permitted might use the above Tradition as justification. Such people might contemplate the implication of the following two Traditions.
2. Tradition numbered 1464 from Al-Tirmidhi collection:
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Narrated Aisha
A man came and when he had sat down in front of Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) he said, "Messenger of Allah, I have slaves who lie to me, deceive me and disobey me, and I revile and beat them. How do I stand with respect to them?" He replied, "On the Day of Resurrection account will be taken of the extent of their deceit, disobedience and lying towards you, and of the punishment you administered to them. If your punishment of them was in accordance with their offences, its being exactly right will count neither for you nor against you. If your punishment of them was less than their offence deserved it will be something extra to your credit. But if your punishment of them was greater than their offences deserved requital will be taken from you on their behalf for the excess." The man went aside and began to shout and weep, so Allah's Messenger asked him if he did not recite the words of Allah Most High: "We shall place the just scales for the Day of Resurrection and no soul will be wronged in any respect, and even if there is only the weight of a grain of mustard-seed We shall bring it, and We are sufficient to take account." The man said, "Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him), I find nothing better for myself and these men than to separate from them. I call you to witness that they are all free."
Tirmidhi transmitted it.
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From the above Tradition, we conclude that deception is indeed a sin, and it incurs divine punishment. The punishment is dependent upon the deception. In the first Tradition, deception was used to eliminate an enemy. The sin of deception would be weighed against the benefit of eliminating an enemy, and the one who employed deception might be rewarded, let go, or punished on the Day of Judgment. In view of the following Tradition, we recommend that deception be avoided, if indeed we are approaching the end of the world.
3. Tradition numbered 1415 from Al-Tirmidhi collection:
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Narrated AbuHurayrah
Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said, "In the last times men will come forth who will fraudulently use religion for worldly ends and wear sheepskins in public to display meekness. Their tongues will be sweeter than sugar, but their hearts will be the hearts of wolves. Allah will say, 'Are they trying to deceive me, or are they acting presumptuously towards me? I swear by myself that I shall send trial upon those people which will leave the intelligent man among them confounded.'"
Tirmidhi transmitted it.
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It is by far safer to avoid deception as described in the second Tradition above.
Mohididly, Mecca is not a building; it's a city. We're talking about a nuclear attack on a city in response to a potential EMP attack. And for the record, I do not particularly support this "Nuke Mecca" strategy, I'm only paraphrasing what I had read some years ago. I must admit, though, it's provocative.
The city of Makkah is worth visiting because of the Kabah only; so, if God Almighty sanctions the destruction of that building, the surrounding city naturally dies. As regards the so called nuclear attack, we remind that every bomb that gets dropped does not explode. If God Almighty has sanctioned such an end, it just could not be avoided. However, all those in Makkah who die under such an attack are martyrs. Evidence? Tradition numbered 36 in volume 16 of Al-Muwatta collection quoted below:
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The Prohibition Against Weeping Over the Dead
Yahya related to me from Malik from Abdullah ibn Abdullah ibn Jabir ibn Atik that Atik ibn al-Harith, the grandfather of Abdullah ibn Abdullah ibn Jabir on his mother's side, told him that Jabir ibn Atik had told him that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, came to visit Abdullah ibn Thabit and found him in his death-throes. He called to him but he did not reply. The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "We belong to Allah, and to Him we are returning," and added, "You are being taken from us, Abu'r-Rabi.'' The women cried out and wept, and Jabir began to silence them. The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Leave them, and when the necessary time comes, none of the women should cry." They said, "Messenger of Allah, what is the necessary time?", and he replied, "When he dies." The dying man's daughter said, "By Allah, I hope that you will be a martyr, for you have completed your preparations for battle," and the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Allah has made his reward fall according to his intention. What do you consider dying a martyr to be?" They said, "Death in the way of Allah." The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "There are seven kinds of rnartyr other than those killed in the way of Allah. Someone who is killed by the plague is a martyr, someone who drowns is a martyr, someone who dies of pleurisy is a martyr, someone who dies of a disease of the belly is a martyr, someone who dies by fire is a martyr, someone who dies under a falling building is a martyr and a woman who dies in childbirth is a martyr."
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Undoubtedly, martyrdom is the ultimate victory. Regarding that canard of the potential EMP attack, we have already indicated that EMP attacks are in the imagination of the war mongers who are out to cheat the Americans again as they did with 9/11.
Dead shot - Chuck Missler doesn't advocate nuken Mecca.
I was talking about him referring to an EMP hitting the West and taking out all our electronics.
Mohideen Ibramsha - I see you rely on "hadith". So no doubt you to are a pedophile who enjoys sex with little 9 year olds like Mo (may pigs piss be upon him). You should be ashamed.
Someone who is killed by the plague is a martyr, someone who drowns is a martyr, someone who dies of pleurisy is a martyr, someone who dies of a disease of the belly is a martyr, someone who dies by fire is a martyr, someone who dies under a falling building is a martyr and a woman who dies in childbirth is a martyr."
Posted by: Mohideen Ibramsha
ONLY God has the right to say who is a martyr - and who isn't.
People who worship the Devil - do die.
And that is why - there is a Judgment