This story has nothing to do with the global jihad, but it shows why it is virtually certain that Britain will eventually capitulate to the jihadists and become an Islamic state: any nation that becomes ashamed of its own history and culture will ultimately die. What reason would it have to keep on living? And that death should be ruled a suicide. From Reuters, with thanks to the Constantinopolitan Irredentist:
LONDON (Reuters) - Britain celebrated an epic naval victory Tuesday but a descendant of its hero Admiral Horatio Nelson said the Battle of Trafalgar bicentenary was trying too hard not to offend historical enemies France and Spain.A highlight of the world's biggest naval review was featuring two fleets enacting a 19th century sea battle.
But they have been called simply the red and the blue fleet rather than by country names, which has sparked a shot across the bows from Nelson's great great great granddaughter.
"I am anti-political correctness. Very much against it. It makes fools of us," said 75-year-old Anna Tribe.
"I think the idea of the blue team fighting the red team is pretty stupid. I am sure the French and Spanish are adult enough to appreciate we did win that battle," she added.
The historian playing Nelson in the mock battle is equally annoyed.
"If you obliterate history for the sake of political correctness, you can't learn from the past. Nelson thought politicians were cowards. I tend to agree," Alex Naylor said.
You can say that again, Alex.
To Quote Abe Lincoln on the Civil War:
“What has occurred in this case must ever recur in similar cases. Human nature will not change. In any future great national trial, compared with the men of this, we shall have as weak and as strong, as silly and as wise, as bad and as good. Let us therefore study the incidents of this, as philosophy to learn wisdom from, and none of them as wrongs to be revenged.”
Have the Brits lost their minds? If they refuse to study their own history, they will never produce another Nelson, another Churchill, heck even another Thatcher.
This is incomprehensible to me.
Rebecca
You see, it was like this...............
Nelson lead his team in color war against the French and Spanish and Nelson's team won.
A week later, summer camp was over and Nelson's parents came to pick him up and drive him home.
And that's how it was!
Sounds like a job for Ridley Scott. Oh...
Incomprehensible it is, alright, Rebecca, but in a world where Israel is villified for building a barrier to keep murderers out, despised for having whopped several armies all bent on its destruction in three successive wars, and pressed to return lands captured after those wars of aggression with no assurance of the cessation of hostility, it only follows that [Arabist sympathetic] Britain has to dissociate from its triumphs.
Here are a couple of related interesting items that I recently read.
The French aircraft carrier Charles De Gaulle participated in the re-enactment. At 262 metres in length it may be longer than any British warship but not those of the U.S. Nimitz class. Apparently the U.S. navy sent one of its smaller carriers to participate so as to "not offend" the French.
A British Eurocrat working in Brussels also suggested that Trafalgar Square in London be renamed Concord Square - also to not offend the froggies sensibilities. I don't know what Blair's reaction was/would be but I would like to see that idea presented to Maggie Thatcher. I think it might register on the Richter scale somewhere.
A British Eurocrat working in Brussels also suggested that Trafalgar Square in London be renamed Concord Square -
If I remember correctly he went on to object to the "welcome" shown to French visitors by their arriving on Eurostar at Waterloo station. There was a flurry of sugestions that if the names were changed then Agincourt Square and Crecy Station would be good and no more was said.
Just about everybody was taking the rise out of the red and blue team nonsense. Even the breakfast show DJs did a little spoof jingle about it which they played at intervals. We seem to have claimed the Cross of St George back, we do more and more for St George's day and I think the tide is on the turn. At last. Although it could be a while before we see the benefit.
"I am anti-political correctness. Very much against it. It makes fools of us," said 75-year-old Anna Tribe.
Who cares what a dried-up, old Limey broad has to say about anything? Oh, I'm sorry. Was that politically incorrect?
Way to go, Mr. Spencer. Like you said, this has nothing to do with Islam, but it has everything to do with appeasing the devotees of the GOP personality cult. After letting Hugh insult the rambling, incoherent 9-11 fest of their god-king last night, I guess you had to make amends.
It's a sad day for me when one of my favorite websites starts to join the wing-nut echochamber.
Keith,
I see you haven't lost your characteristic light touch.
I suppose then you support this Trafalgar travesty? And hence the suicide of Europe?
Cordially
Robert Spencer
KJ- Whoosh! That sound indicates that the point RS made sailed right over your head! Political correctness makes fools of us all. A spade is a spade. Creating euphemisms, changing the historical names of events, buildings, schools, ect. so as "not to offend" is ridiculous.
Hugh has world view that is obviously divergent from your own. He provides a great services by sharing with us the fruits of his intellect. What do you have to offer?
EPG,
He has insults, and half-truths, and abuse.
That's all I ever see from him.
But I will not ban him. I won't give him that ammunition.
Cordially
Robert Spencer
Kj, I do not understand why you are so defensive about this or, rather, I do not see how you can be defensive about this and at the same time be anti-Jihad, pro-Israel, and pro-West. The ideology that blames Israel, America, and the West in general for all the Islamic world's pathologies is the same one responsible for this desecration of Britain's proud history. It is an ideology that loves the weak and miserable, no matter how unjust and wicked (e.g. the "Palestinians"), and hates the strong and prosperous, no matter how just and righteous.
Granny:
Agincourt Square and Crecy Station . LOL
I assume you are British, I'm in Canada and don't get the details that you do.
Robert:
Since you appreciate a bit of humour (a strange sort of humour I admit) I will pass this on to you.
Hassan Almrei is an illegal Syrian immigrant to Canada who came to the security forces attention after Sept. 11. Investigation determined that Almrei has al-Qaeda connections, entered on a fake passport, had been involved with document forgery and trained in Afghanistan with jihadi forces. He was ordered deported to Syria but a court order prevented this due to Syria’s reputation for torture. Almrei has been sitting in jail for 3 ½ years on what is known here as a Security Certificate.
Almrei has again applied for bail and this time his application has gathered some high profile support. Alexandre (Sacha) Trudeau, Pierre Trudeau’s son has offered a bond of $5,000 in support of his release. Three other well-known moonbats – Naomi Klein, Avi Lewis (Naomi’s husband and son of former UN ambassador Stephen Lewis) and Heather Mallick have also offered bail money.
I suppose the left wing is a bit short of cash these days because their total bond is $300. Yes sir – no typo there, $100 each or latte money for the week. A real vote of confidence for Mr. Almrei.
A couple of quotes:
“When a government lawyer suggested that Almrei had tricked Trudeau, he disagreed, saying world travels had inured him to such tactics. "I have an instinct for that," he said.
“More claims to Almrei's tolerance were heard from a social worker who has come to know the devout Muslim while he has been in detention.
Diane Ralph, a Jewish lesbian, said Almrei would live with her and her partner if he is released from jail.”
Let’s see, how long would a Jewish lesbian last in Dar al Islam?
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/06/29/almrei050629.html
Robert that is very strong and from what I have read of KJ's posts (granted, I've only been a guest on your site for 6 months now) unjustified. We should be building an anti-jihadist popular front-style coalition with pro-Western, pro-civilization liberals and leftists (like Cristopher Hitchens and Paul Berman), not insisting that in order to be anti-jihad, anti-dhimmmi you must first swear allegiance to every point in the Republican Party platform. It was feuding over such petty differences that doomed Eastern Christianity at the time of the original Muslim invasions, and we should be building bridges to our natural allies, not burning them.
Let’s see, how long would a Jewish lesbian last in Dar al Islam?
How long's a Jewish lesbian? About 5'6".
$100, thats about £60? They really are putting their money where their collective mouth is.
Johnb - I am British, as you gathered. Is your nickname from the Beach Boys song?
Dear Emperor Diocletian,
You say that we should "not [be] insisting that in order to be anti-jihad, anti-dhimmmi you must first swear allegiance to every point in the Republican Party platform."
Clearly you do not read this website regularly, and have obviously missed all the attacks on Bush, Rice, and Administration policies. To say that we insist on adherence to every point in the Republican Party platform is inaccurate to the point of absurdity.
This is my problem with KJ as well: he constantly maligns me for positions I do not hold, and attributes motives to me that I do not have.
Join the club.
Cordially
Robert Spencer
This is out of proportion - in many ways this was a great celebration of Trafalgar. You Yanks are only jealous because we've got more history than you and we've got a queen.
Mind you, if Red Ken Livingstone had had his way, the only Nelson we'd be celebrating is Nelson 'Freakin' Mandela.
And the American version of 'The Office' is nothing like as good as the British original.
RS: "To say that we insist on adherence to every point in the Republican Party platform is inaccurate to the point of absurdity.
Indeed. But other one-note posters here do seem to have this notion. They are as duped by the evil rabid right wing as many Democrats are by the evil loony left wing.
I do not regard Robert as a right-winger, but his preaching seems soothing to many right-wing ears, to the point they mistake him as being one of them.
Back to the Trafalgar "celebrations" and one of my favourite men, Lord Nelson... (we also discussed this in depth on the Biased BBC Blog): It was once again quite startling to see how little airtime the BBC (or Al-Beeb as we call it) afforded the event. What took the biscuit was the fact that one of the BBC's finest wasn't on board a British ship but the carrier Charles de Gaulle where she rambled on about the French.
Here's a cartoon I think caught the hypocrisy best: http://images.thesun.co.uk/picture/0,,2005290964,00.jpg
Loxias: It's in the nature of things that conservatives seem to be more aware of the danger islam poses than left-wingers. This is usually down to the fact that most lefties are in bed with their islamofacist friends. I wonder how many of the contributors to this website actually consider themselves to be liberals / left-wing!
Me = conservative
Yes, but almost always from a position that is, or at least can be construed as, to the "right" of the administration's. In any case the criticism would have been more directed to other posters rather than you, Robert, except that you seem to have singled out KJ when (at least from what I've seen during my time here) his posts are a lot less inflammatory and abusive than those of some of the more partisan right-wingers here. My point only is that we are all allies here, and should not be so quick to attack one another.
Also, the real obstacles in our war against imperialist Islam (i.e. regular, vanilla-flavored, whitebread Islam) are all self-imposed- up to and including our unwillingness to name the enemy by his rightful name. This is due to the cultural influence of liberals and leftists, who have made political correctness and multi-culturalism so all-pervasive in respectable society that they have infected even what is probably the most conservative administration of the modern era. In order to change this we are going to have to (better) reach out to people on the left who are of good will.
I'm grateful for all your work both in print, in person, and on this site and I hope you will not take any of my criticisms (whether off-base or not) as personal or anything other than well-meaning. Regards and best wishes for your future success!
Granny:
Re: "Is your nickname from the Beach Boys song?"
It wasn't but since I like the Beach Boys music (most of it at least), I'll say it is.
Cheers.
Good_Vibrations :-)
disillusionised_german: This is usually down to the fact that most lefties are in bed with their islamofacist friends.
I suggest you do a web search using the argument "Grover Norquist". It's the American right that is in bed with their islamofascist friends.
The old European left and European liberalism are still infected with the cant of class-struggle, and lacking the Russians to cozy-up to any more, they've upped their rhetorical rantings about Americans.
The political terms 'rightist', 'conservative' and 'leftist', 'liberal' have lost all meaning. 'Conservative', particularly as used by the American religious right, now seems to me to mean 'reactionary'.
Reactionaries define themselves not by what they are for but what they are against. It's not want so much what they want to do as what they want to undo, in this case anywhere from 60 to 140 years of social and economic progress. In Europe, it's the old left that's reactionary: they are now against Russia, and still against America.
As for 'liberal', the word has been so abused by the American right as to have no meaning at all, they using it for anything from old-Stalinist communists to vegan animal-rights-nuts, and closer to home, anyone who expresses the slightest suspicions about right wing Christian clerics. Some of the one-notes posting here find it inconceivable that I (or any putative liberal) can be anti-jihadist and anti-Muslim, and just assume I'm just another left-wing nut (just as I label them right wing nuts).
The Christian right is badly blinkered, and fundamentally refuses to recognize how dangerous -- to them -- their alliance with what I have called the neo-pagan right is. The neo-pagan right is just as licentiously secular as is the secular left, but have allied themselves with the naifs on the Christian right, and by throwing them some mainly verbal bones, have been left alone to loot the US treasury and put to the sack the American economy for their own narrow private gain.
Worse, the neo-pagan right is pretty much a part of the pro-Meccca Meccan-financed axis (the Saudis are grand masters at the care and feeding of American Congressmen, especially Republican Congressmen, particularly after they've left office). What's good for Mecca is good for big oil and what's good for big oil is good for America. No one here seems ready to denounce Grover Norquist for the Muslim-loving terrorist-linked ghoul he really is (Robert Spencer has, I must hasten to add), but most here seem to believe "he's our Muslim-loving terrorist-linked ghoul and that's OK by Jesus".
O foolish Christian-Rightists, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth! (C.f. Galatians 3-1.)
Loxias, I find that it is the Christian left that is cozy with islam.
No, No Nannette, you are all wrong about Great Britain. All that is occuring is that Britain is getting back what she tried so hard to do unto Israel and the Jewish peoples: guess who's getting Islamosized instead? Britain may have won a sea battle - but she is loosing in her corrupt and treacherous acts concerning Israel:
NO SIR - A DEATHLY 3-STATE SOLUTION TO THE JEWISH PROBLEM IN WHAT'S LEFT OF PALESTINE - CANNOT BE PASSED OFF AS A 2-STATE SOLUTION. AND IT WAS BRITAIN WHO IMPROVISED THE FIRST 2-STATE WHEN OIL WAS DISCOVERED - HOW COULD SHE FORGET!
Better that the word GREAT be removed from this nation which lies from every cell in a clipped accent. And lets call what Britain tried to dish out: lets call it THE ISRAEL EXPERIENCE.
'THOSE WHO CURSE YOU...' (Genesis).
Those ships will sure come in handy when we're fighting muslims.
Carolyn: Loxias, I find that it is the Christian left that is cozy with islam.
I don't know what the Christian left is anymore, or even if it exists.
Christians are supposed to turn the other cheek, to be irenic paragons, blesséd peacemakers. Even the Pope -- no liberal Muslim-lover there -- makes all the right noises. Some mainstream Protestants can be a little naive, but then so was Francis of Assisi and his mission to the Muslims.
Many churchgoing leftists go mainly out of tradition, or to make sure their kids get the exposure to religion they themselves had a children. They are by no means convinced believers, and are usually put off by gung-ho I-love-Jesus let's-convert-the-world clergy. But these types are not cozy with Islam. But they might be called neo-pagans who have yet to make the final break.
Reactionaries define themselves not by what they are for but what they are against. Posted by Loxias
That sounds like a perfect definition of today's Democratic Party!
Politics are capricious; in today's world, John F. Kennedy would hardly resemble a Democrat.
From my perspective, for what it's worth, there are no regular, rabid right-wingers posting here. I would say most of us are classical liberals, some Democrats and some Republicans. Giaour is is an unabashed communist, but he recognizes the deadly threat of Islam. KJ is a liberal and a very defensive one, but at least he acknowledges the truth about Islam, which makes him an anomaly among his political bedfellows.
The American left, led by the ACLU, academia, and some Democratic legislators, are shameless apologists for Islam. Many are anti-American, ultra-socialist, anti-Western Civilization to boot. Yes, there are Republican apologists as well, including the president and secretary of state, but the left leads the way when it comes to promoting muslims and Islam, and appeasing and catering to them. The anti-American, socialist attitudes and rhetoric of many liberals and leftists, when combined with their apologetics and appeasement of muslims and Islam, makes them despicable.
Leftists are responsible for the cultural Marxism that has permeated our society in the form of moral/cultural/religious relativism, political correctness, anti-Christianity, anti-Western Civilization. It has seeped into all our lives like a foul miasma, obstructing truth and open, honest discourse, especially about Islam. It is a force every bit as deadly as Islam.
KJ accuses us of worshipping GWB and that is ridiculous. We have lambasted him on many issues, from illegal immigration to his refusal to name the enemy in his "war against terror." Many of us do not agree with the war in Iraq, his relationship with the Saudis, his ambitious attempt to democratize the Middle East, the stupid "Road Map" to oblivion in Israel, the No Child Left Behind fiasco, etc. But I must say this: GWB was the only choice we had. Kerry would have allowed the corrupt, immoral hypocrites in the UN to dictate American policy, with special help from France and Germany. He is more concerned about our international reputation than in the welfare of the country.
All Christians are not rabid right-wingers and I can tell you from extensive, first-hand experience that many Christians fully understand the threat posed by Islam and recognize it for the evil heresy that it is. However, they will not physically harm muslims or threaten them in any way. Christianity teaches us to love our enemies and to turn the other cheek, but it also forbids suicide and warns of false prophets. To relent to Islam is suicidal. Muhammad was a false prophet and one doesn't have to be a Christian to realize that. I am not a member of any church and I haven't been for years. I am not an evangelical or a proponent of a Christian theocracy in America (I don't know anyone who is) but I know this much: there is no moral equivalency between Christianity and Islam.
I don't hate muslims and I have no choice but to tolerate them as long as they don't interfere in my life. I would much prefer that they had never been permitted to invade America, but since they're here and multiplying like rats, all I can do is encourage others to learn about Islam so they can defend themselves and their children from this abominable scourge. Most of those who lean to the left are so firmly dedicated to cultural Marxism that they are impenetrable. Diversity and multiculturalism are their gods and they are blind to the evil of Islam.
"Christians are supposed to turn the other cheek"
I've always believed that to be on the individual level - and not at the governmental level. Nor do I believe it means to leave one's morals at the front door of parliament, nor does it mean to let evil triumph. If you were to touch my family, I’d turn your cheek inside out if the law didn’t. Turn the other cheek is taken so out of context. As I have done in punch ups in the past, you hit me, I’ll turn the other cheek, hit me again, fine, try again…..well I’m all out of cheeks. Eventually one IS allowed to ‘draw a line in the sand’ and say “no more”.
Was it evil for Christians to fight Hitler? NO! Communism? No (although some lefty’s will disagree) The same applies with Islam.
ITS EVIL TO LET EVIL flourish. At least the Christian "right", as you put it, is actually fighting Islam actively.
As for the other sides of "secular" politics, the left has sold out to PC, and the right to the almighty dollar, be that via direct business with Islam, or by fueling a false economy based on immigration (to help fuel internal "growth").
Loxias, maybe you should examine the policies of a "Christian" Party here in Australia called "Family First" - which the PC media has written off as a "Right wing party".
Some of their policies are more center left than that of the secular conservatives (not to mention the national leader is an Aboriginal woman – but the left isn’t interested in this, an Aussie first as she’s a Christian).
If the USA is anything like Australia, the thing that has lead to the "Christian Right" being involved more actively in politics is that the left has pushed us into the corner.
Over the last 50 years we Christians have been told to not mix "religion and politics". So we haven't. Until now.
But the same can't be said of the religious left. They have pushed their Humanistic beliefs upon us for the last 50 years. At school our kids get taught that homosexuality is OK, that Islam is OK, that Christianity is evil, that evolution is fact yadda yadda yadda. The left then passes laws to say that the Bible vilifies these "oppressed" minorities and pastors get thrown into jail if they even dare read the passages about Homosexuals in the Bible (see the case of the Swedish pastor), or that of the Koran – all thanks to lefty laws, …..why was it I voted right/conservative again??????.
And then you Humanists wonder why we react? There is no big "alliance" as you put it. In the Australian case, we really only have a choice between two parties, a choice between two evils. I suspect the same happens in the US – Dem V Reo – not exactly a lot of diversity is it?
More often than not, vote ‘right’, as they tend to guarantee some form of Christian moral, whereas the left, wants to keep pushing their "rights for minorities" barrow upon us. On top of that, as history shows, the left is only oh so eager to sign our implied constitutional rights away in foreign treaties – not real democratic on their part.
So what on earth do you expect us "evil" Christians to do with our vote? Like you Loxias, we will protect our way of life, even if it has a much longer heritage in the West than Humanism, and may be seen by some as "old fashioned".
At least Christians still believe in the old fashioned practice of having families, something the left doesn’t with its gay marriage “rights”, payments to single parents but none or bugger all for ‘traditional’ families because they stuck it out rather than getting divorced, no fault divorce, no rights for parents in discipline of their kids, all lefty polices which have only ever resulted in lower birth rates – sorry Loxias but “Mother Nature has discriminated on this one (we better sue “her’ hey?) – the gays can screw till the cows come home, but they won’t contribute to the birth rate, and the solution to these negative birth rates? Muslim immigration, hooray for the left!
Yep us evil Christians have aligned with the “Neo Pagans”, yep I knew I should have voted for Mark Lefty Latham at the last election, so that I could see my values eroded even further and lefty one’s pushed upon my child as “matter of fact”, seen more of my rights signed away in foreign treaties so than some dumb French/ Euro idiot can tell me what to do in my own country – all in the name of “saving the planet”, so that my child would be taught by State schooling that gay marriage is OK, that evolution had no role in slavery – it was all the Christians fault, as was colonialism, that Islam is Ok etc etc.
Thanks for setting me straight Loxias – as you always do……Yep I’ll vote for the left next time, you’ve “won” me!
"in this case anywhere from 60 to 140 years of social and economic progress" - Loxias
Does this "social progress" include the massive jump in crime over the last 60 years??