But have they fired the ideology that led to his subversive actions and arrest? From the News-Sentinel, with thanks to PRCS:
Leaders of the Lodi Mosque have voted to fire Shabbir Ahmed, the imam who has been arrested on immigration charges and accused of supporting the Taliban."He will not return to our mosque," said Muhammed Shoaib, mosque president, who added that the decision by board members to terminate Ahmed was unanimous. They voted on Ahmed's dismissal Sunday night.
Arrested earlier this month on immigration violations, Ahmed acknowledged in court Friday that he made speeches in Pakistan supporting the Taliban in its fight against the United States. He said he regrets those comments now, having come to see Americans' "true value and respect for human life."
An interesting point about Islamic polity. It's essentially congregational, as is also Jewish polity.
The congregation can hire or fire the minister/rabbi/imam, by a vote of the congregation.
One can compare most Muslim congregations to most Protestant congregations, at least in matters of self-goverment -- at least in the West.
In Iran or Arabia, I would not be suprised if the Minister of Religion appoints the local cleric, rather much like the Pope appoints bishops.
Don't worry about the unemployed Shabir... he can always go to New York and work for the Islamic "Thinkers" Society. But then again, they might fire him for not being hateful enough.
But I have to admit, it is refreshing to see a group of Muslims actually take a stand for decency and FIRE someone for abetting the jihadis. The M.O. is to circle the wagons, claim that he is a victim of racism, and blame the whole affair on some world-wide Zionist plot.
Hats off to the good congregation at the Lodi Mosque. There may be hope for Islam yet.
"But I have to admit, it is refreshing to see a group of Muslims actually take a stand for decency and FIRE someone for abetting the jihadis. The M.O. is to circle the wagons, claim that he is a victim of racism, and blame the whole affair on some world-wide Zionist plot.
Hats off to the good congregation at the Lodi Mosque. There may be hope for Islam yet."
-- from a posting above
There is nothing "refreshing" about this belated firing, long after the charges were made, and long after it must have been known to everyone in the mosque what the views of this Imam were --do you think he tried to hide them from his fellow Muslims?
Firing him has nothing to do with heartfelt dismay at the imam's beliefs and acts. It is merely an act of public relations, of realizing that, for the sake of the other Muslims, he had to go -- the whole thing was getting much too much publicity of the wrong kind.
A completely phony act, which should win no praise, no nothing, from anyone.
Has a single mosque anywhere in the United States had congregants who rose up against their imam because of the violence of his views? (Answer: No).
Had the members of the mosque, long ago, or at least as soon as the charges were brought and they knew (they must have known) that they were true (for they knew their imam; they listened to his khutbas every week), fired him, that would have been one thing.
This is quite another.
Bartender! A taqiya sunrise. Make that a double!
Re: "Ahmed acknowledged in court Friday that he made speeches in Pakistan supporting the Taliban in its fight against the United States. He said he regrets those comments now, having come to see Americans' "true value and respect for human life."
A little taquiya with your breakfast anyone?
Shy Guy:
Taquiya sunrise - I like that. May I borrow it?
Cheers.
Only if you can swallow it. ;)
Hugh, I am going to disagree, in part, with your post from above.
This firing has now set a new standard for the activities of Mosque leaders. If a Mosque in the US has an Imam who speaks out in such ways, the local Mosque leaders and/or the local community leaders can demand that the Imam be let go. This precedent has now been set. Any Mosque community that does not adhere to this standard can now rightly be accused of fomenting terrorism, and cannot stand behind "free speech".
This does not of course change the basic nature of Islam as a backward and violent religion!
It says he's being held on immigration violations,most likely staying on an expired visa.
This means he gets a one way ticket back to his country of origin and wont be able to attend the mosque anymore anyway.I'm sure the congregation is aware of this which makes the firing nothing more than window dressing.
JLP
G.D., Hugh. At least they did something. Maybe it is all taqqiya (in fact, it probably is) but at least it's a start. This is especially the case if one compares what transpired at the Lodi Mosque to what usually happens: blame the Jews, blame the media, blame the "ignorance of the infidels," blame the racism of the lawmen, etc.
Sorry, but I have no hope for islam. Nor do I have hope for nazism, communism, racism, vegetarianism, or schism.
Life is short; I owe islam nothing.
- Havoc
And taqqiya is the start of what in Daru 'l-Harb?
Hats off to the good congregation at the Lodi Mosque. There may be hope for Islam yet.
Posted by: kj
This firing has now set a new standard for the activities of Mosque leaders.
Posted by: kennyg1953
Taught in the mosques:
009.005 fight and slay the Pagans ''''wherever'''' ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war.
047.004 Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers in fight [jihad], smite at their necks. [Behead them!]
A pondering for you from the Bible:
Jam 3:11 Doth a fountain [teaching] send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter? [No - it is impossible]
The bitter waters will kill you
G.D., Hugh. At least they did something.
Posted by: kj
The 'moderate' Muslims are the most effective weapon for Islam.
When it comes to non-Muslims - the 'moderate' Muslims lie about their 'allah's commands - of which many simpletons [Dhimmis - the Bible calls them simpletons]accept their lies:
PROOF from 'allah'
004.101 When ye travel through the earth , there is no blame on you if ye shorten your prayers, for fear the Unbelievers May attack you: For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies.
004.095 Not equal are those believers who sit at home and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit at home. But those who strive and fight hath He distinguished above those who sit at home by a special reward.
002.216 Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing [war] which is good for you and that ye love a thing [peace] which is bad for you?
009.039 Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place.
Only non-Muslim SIMPLETONS would support such a stranger
008.067 It is not fitting for a prophet that he should have prisoners of war [slay them] until he hath thoroughly subdued the land. [Treason - in all non-Muslim nations]
004.104 And slacken not in following up the enemy: If ye are suffering hardships, they are suffering similar hardships.
033.061 They shall have a curse on them: whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain without mercy.
That - is just a very small part of the viciousness that is being taught in the mosques
Dan 11:32 And such as do wickedly against the [Holy] covenant shall he {son of perdition made up of many members] corrupt by flatteries
Yes - flatteries - some people love flatteries
The peaceful God of the Bible does not force anyone to bow to Him. He gives you that choice.
The god of the Koran will have you killed - if don't bow to him.
'allah' SAYS SO! and that makes ALL ''moderate' Muslims - LIARS
WAKE UP 'Dhimmis' !!!
Shabbir Ahmed's change of heart about Americans and their values comes about because he realizes his ride on the gravy train is about to end.
It is time for America to take our niclosamide in order to rid ourselves of this insidious cestode infestation.
It is time...
Kennyg,
I think Hugh's post is inferring that this "precedent" you speak of should have been put in effect immediately after 9/11 not 4 years after the fact. In fact by now we should have heard about dozens and dozens of such firings as we know how prominent the Wahibbi ideology is in American mosques. This simply hasn't happened and I believe still hasn't happened in this case. No, this firing is just a PR exercise in the hopes of throwing off the dogs so the jihaddis in the congregation can get back to their plotting. I do hope that the Homeland Security people will see this as further evidence of the need to thouroughly investigate and vet all Pakistani and Saudi imans here in the states. These people are carriers of a disease deadlier than the Ebola virus. And one day soon, I hope the authorities stop allowing these Wahibbi imans into our country period! We are at war with these very people and we are still letting them into this country. How stupid is that! AAhhh!! "Bartender, a taquiya sunrise, make that a double".
Learn a lesson from the tale of 'The Spider and the Fly'
The spider is Islam - and the fly is a dhimmi
Will you walk into my parlour?" said the Spider to the Fly,
'Tis the prettiest little parlour that ever you did spy;
The way into my parlour is up a winding stair,
And I've a many curious things to shew when you are there."
Oh no, no," said the little Fly, "to ask me is in vain,
For who goes up your winding stair can ne'er come down again."
"I'm sure you must be weary, dear, with soaring up so high;
Will you rest upon my little bed?" said the Spider to the Fly.
"There are pretty curtains drawn around; the sheets are fine and thin,
And if you like to rest awhile, I'll snugly tuck you in!"
Oh no, no," said the little Fly, "for I've often heard it said,
They never, never wake again, who sleep upon your bed!"
Said the cunning Spider to the Fly, " Dear friend what can I do,
To prove the warm affection I 've always felt for you?
I have within my pantry, good store of all that's nice;
I'm sure you're very welcome -- will you please to take a slice?"
"Oh no, no," said the little Fly, "kind Sir, that cannot be,
I've heard what's in your pantry, and I do not wish to see!"
"Sweet creature!" said the Spider, "you're witty and you're wise,
How handsome are your gauzy wings, how brilliant are your eyes!
I've a little looking-glass upon my parlour shelf,
If you'll step in one moment, dear, you shall behold yourself."
"I thank you, gentle sir," she said, "for what you 're pleased to say,
And bidding you good morning now, I'll call another day."
The Spider turned him round about, and went into his den,
For well he knew the silly Fly would soon come back again:
So he wove a subtle web, in a little corner sly,
And set his table ready, to dine upon the Fly.
Then he came out to his door again, and merrily did sing,
"Come hither, hither, pretty Fly, with the pearl and silver wing;
Your robes are green and purple -- there's a crest upon your head;
Your eyes are like the diamond bright, but mine are dull as lead!"
Alas, alas! how very soon this silly little Fly,
Hearing his wily, flattering words, came slowly flitting by;
With buzzing wings she hung aloft, then near and nearer drew,
Thinking only of her brilliant eyes, and green and purple hue --
Thinking only of her crested head -- poor foolish thing! At last,
Up jumped the cunning Spider, and fiercely held her fast.
He dragged her up his winding stair, into his dismal den,
Within his little parlour -- but she ne'er came out again!
And now dear little children, who may this story read,
To idle, silly flattering words, I pray you ne'er give heed:
Unto an evil counsellor, close heart and ear and eye,
And take a lesson from this tale, of the Spider and the Fly.
William, I can agree with you on when this kind of action "should" have begun within the moslem community. Nevertheless, this is a welcome start to purging these anti-american, anti-peace and anti-anybody who doesn't believe like me, people. We can demand that all imams that preach hatred like this guy, leave the local Mosque, and leave the country. I view this as a start for those "peace-loving" moslems we keep hearing about. Like Bush said, "Either you are with us or you are against us".
It’s another taqqiya sunrise
Starin’ slowly ’cross the sky, he said goodbye
He was just a hired hand (with a Koran)
Workin’ on the dreams (er, heads) he planned to chop off
The days go by
Ev’ry night when the sun goes down
Just another lonely imam in town
And the infidels are out runnin’ ’round. . .
The Lodi mosque cluster are not fooling most. Political expediency is the reason for the firing, nothing more or less. The heat is on locally for them and this is damage control. Muslims are not coming around, there or anywhere, not now, not no how.
" honey, does this suicide belt make me look fat?"
News-Sentinel has taken down the page. Pity. It is refreshing that the mosque has taken a baby step to affect a change. However, RS has asked a pertinent question: "Have they fired the ideology that led to his subversive activities and arrest?
I pose another question: Why is Pakistani "religious royalty" doing menial labor, selling ice cream and picking strawberries, in an out of the way place such as Lodi? Would someone venture a guess?
Susan,
Funny.
As a sidenote to the thread, the 'old guys', some of whom have been in Lodi since the 1920/1930 timeframe have apparently not been a problem.
And there has been animosity between some in the oldest/middle generations and the newer 'Paki' arrivals. The two arrested Imams are newer folk. Some of the older/middle generation have expressed displeasure at the establishment of the al Farooqia mosque, by the two Imamns (I believe).
But, of course, the real question remains:
If there were concerns within Lodi's established Muslim community about suspicious or controversial activities at the new Mosque, what was being done about it BEFORE the arrests and public attention?
PR. BS. Nothing more, nothing less. An attemt at damage control. Remember yesterdays header:" I am a good Muslim. That's why I'am a terrorist..."
Just like the clan of Bin Laden claiming 'he has been disowned'- no such thing. Far from it. Perhaps the Saudis have 'revoked' his citizenship: As if he 'needed' it! OBL is seen as the new Khalif, perhaps even the Mahdi. His support is huge in the 'Muslim world'. He is at home in any Islamic country. And probably very safe in Iran ight now.
Thats exactly why we can't catch him. The Islamics are a subversive cult. They are playing us like a jukebox.
Clearly this entire Lodi community knew about this Imam's fascist Islamic views -- perhaps they agreed with him -- perhaps they didn't. Most Muslims hope for the eventual domination of Islam over the entire world by various means, be they "moderate" or otherwise... But if we have ANY hope of not being FORCED to use extreme measures against all Muslims, we must see them begin to convincingly repudiate Islamic fascism NOW!... If/when we are hit by Islamic nukes, I hope few will object or stand in the way of their wholesale destruction here and abroad...
I don't have much hope -- 1400 years of deplorable fascist Islamic history don't auger well for us OR them... Can Muslims jettison their evil ways? More fascist Imam firings and repudiating terror front organizations like CAIR must begin NOW. Until I am convinced otherwise, I don't consider them normal or worthy Americans in ANY regard... But at least this looks like a start....
Suzan Eagles - one of my favorites!
My favorite song by them [but it's tough to choose] ia this one:
Who is going to make it - "In the Long Run"
We'll find out - in the long run
As for "The new kind in town" there's going to be a BUNCH of them - as the Koran is being fed to the next generation - starved to worship in a religion.
That's what the 'royals' are doing in Lodi epg
Sorry, but I have no hope for islam. Nor do I have hope for nazism, communism, racism, vegetarianism, or schism.
Life is short; I owe islam nothing.
Posted by: Havoc
LOLS - I like that
You left out 'Islamophobism'
Beth, OT, way OT...I dated the Eagles road manager (before he became their road manager) when I was a young chick. 6 degrees of separation or something.....
kj:
Don't hand out the trophies just yet,the Lodi Mosque is exploiting this case and firing the Imam is a cheap ruse to appear loyal to the Flag and America.
The man is being "Deported" on immigration violations,it's easy to take the stance that you're getting tough on this militant style Islam when you know the Imam is history anyway.
The real tests are when Muslim leaders like Dr.Mohammad Elmasry keep their position as President of the "Canadian Islamic Congress"
www.canadianislamiccongress.org even after
declaring on Public TV that "All Israelis over 18 years of age are valid targets for murder by suicide bombers".
Elmasry was praised as a asset to the Arab and Muslim causes in Canada, and the University where he teaches only said that the comment made outside of the University Of Waterloo may have been offensive to some but didn't violate Conduct Rules within the agreement contract for Faculty Members.
BTW,the UofW ruled on the comment Elmasry first claimed he never made,and then when the Shows Host re-ran the debate one week later to prove indeed Elmasry DID make the comment,Elmasry then reverted to the "Out of context" defense.
But it was three times that the Show Host wanted clarity on the opinion to give him an OUT,but Elmarsy was firm on suicide bombers blowing up buses since Israeli Soldiers dress as civilians while using public transit.
So when the media exposed Elmasry's hate and the Islamic mind set,he then claimed he was just expressing the views of the majority of Palestinians he talked to and he regreted "Some People" misunderstood his response to a "Set-up" question by the Host.
Maybe one day we might see a Muslim actually take the blame for their action,but for now I doubt Islam and the Quran teach accountability
and self-control.
Beth, OT, way OT
Posted by: Carolyn2
OT - Old Time? I have been trying to figure that one out. Is that right? Is that what it means?
It IS NOT OT!!! (smile) - not to me!
Hey - I love the back street boys - and that is not OT It might be 'weird' but not OT! lols
I have long brown hair and my daughter is after me to die my hair - because the greys are starting to show.
I said to her - right in front of ALL her friends - I EARNED every single one of these - why would I cover them?
She's still after me
Don't hand out the trophies just yet,the Lodi Mosque is exploiting this case and firing the Imam is a cheap ruse to appear loyal to the Flag and America.
Posted by: ala-sux
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Beth OT means "off topic" or "off thread" ;)
Old times is pretty good though. LOL
Thank you Carolyn - LOLS - leave it to me - huh?
Oh - those who personally know me - would be rollin' in the foor - no lie.
Thank you - my dear friend
Beth
Is it really though - 'OFF TOPIC' ??
Go back up and look
Is it?