Convicted, yes, but sentenced to "slap on the wrist" prison terms. From Reuters:
PARIS - A top French court jailed three men for terrorist conspiracy on Thursday after finding them guilty of helping "shoebomber" Richard Reid, who narrowly failed to destroy a U.S. airliner over the Atlantic.The court found they had helped Reid during his stay in Paris ahead of his abortive attempt to destroy a Paris-Miami American Airlines flight mid-Atlantic in December 2001 with a bomb hidden inside one of his shoes.
Jacqueline Rebeyrotte, presiding judge at the main Paris criminal court, sentenced Ghulam Rama to five years in prison and expulsion from France once his sentence was served.
Rama, 67, a Pakistani with joint British nationality, has already spent three years in jail awaiting trial. It was not immediately clear if he would appeal.
His co-accused, Frenchmen Hakim Mokhfi and Hassan El Cheguer, both aged 31, were each jailed for four years, one year suspended. The court ordered them released as they have been in preventive detention since June 2002.
All three men had pleaded not guilty.
During the trial, the court heard that according to French intelligence, Rama had used trips to Britain, New York, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia between 2001 and 2002 as cover while he organized terrorist attacks.
A French probe on Reid's activities in France revealed he had used a Paris cyber cafe to contact Pakistan, a trail that led them to Rama, president of the Straight Path Muslim charity.
Rama told police he saw Mokhfi and Cheguer with Reid. His lawyer said before the trial began that Rama was sick and confused when police first asked him if he recognized a photograph of Reid...
"sick and confused"
No kidding.
Good thing it wasn't a successful bombing. Then they would have gotten 10 year suspended sentences!
Vive la Poltonnnerie!
Sorry France, the "r" was dropped from your "cowardice" ABOVE.
That should be:
VIVE LA POLTRONNERIE!
http://www.terrorists-suck.org/shoebomber
OT, but I would like to comment on the discussion on the possible Gnostic sympathies of Islam that took place a few days ago and that I somehow missed. In my view, Islam shows a kind of perverse genius in pulling together almost every teaching that has been rejected and condemned by the Catholic Church down the centuries, in other words, every heresy; including some that did not take shape in the Church until nine hundred years after Mohammed. It is Docetic, in that it denies that Christ died on the Cross and that the Resurrection ever took place. It is Montanist, in claiming to be a further revelation that supersedes Christ (and also in its internal conflict between universalist claims and a strongly national identity - Phrygian for Montanists, Arabic for Muslims. It is Arian, in separating Jesus from God, and Unitarian, in denying the Trinity. It is Donatist, in its savage distinction between believers and unbelievers with no middle ground, and also in its promotion of religious war against unbelievers and apostates (the Circumcelliones, the Donatist terrorists whom St.Augustine opposed, were similar not only in tactics but even in their home territory to the GIA and Salafists bandits of modern Algeria). It is Pelagian, in fact ultra-Pelagian, in denying Original Sin (Pelagianism only claimed that Jesus had abolished Original Sin for all believers). It is Nestorian in making Jesus a man indwelled by the Spirit of God rather than Divine from birth. It is Protestant, with a strong Calvinist tendency, in rejecting the sacrificing priesthood of Catholic, Orthodox, Monophysite and Nestorian traditions; the Mosque, like the Protestant church, is a prayer hall, not a place of sacrifice. They are Iconoclastic, and Calvinistic too, in rejecting the worship of images. They are Calvinistic, if without the intellectual subtlety of Calvinism, in believing that, since God made everything and is responsible for everything, therefore he made and intended those who are to be damned for damnation; what Catholics call "double predestination" and regard as a slur on the honour and goodness of God - God wishes men to be saved, never to be damned. There is a touch of Marcionism in their rejection of the Jewish Holy Scriptures as they are, which orthodox Christians accept. And we may add that a considerable number of sects, the Alawis being the one that spring to mind, also take up Gnostic ideas such as reincarnation and the return of souls of light to the Pleroma of light and away from the world of matter.
In short, as I said, nearly every Christian heresy there has ever been is represented in the intellectual armoury of Islam. The only major one that does not spring to mind is Monophysitism, and that because it deviates from Catholic teaching in the opposite direction: in emphasizing the divinity of Jesus at the expense of His humanity. Other than that... it seems to me really striking how comprehensively Catholic teaching is rejected. When Muhammed set out to oppose the Christians of his time, he did so very thoroughly indeed.
During the trial, the court heard that according to French intelligence, Rama had used trips to Britain, New York, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia between 2001 and 2002 as cover while he organized terrorist attacks.
Joe 2:9 They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.
Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: [then the Book is 'opened' ] many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
Dan 12:9 the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
For those who believe - start 'eating the word' with haste
Just as in the days of Moses - when they ate 'The Lamb' with haste
The waters [peoples nations and tongues] are divided. And Pharoah's army is persuing
It is Nestorian in making Jesus a man indwelled by the Spirit of God rather than Divine from birth.
Posted by: Paolo
If Mary wasn't married - then why punish others for being pregnant without being married? Who's to say if the child is or isn't 'divinely' conceived?
What's gives anyone the right to say? - either way? Wouldn't that be a GREAT OFFENSE? "Pretending to be God's partner" in making that decision for Him? {What's the punishment for that? Associating yourself with God? hmmm
If Jesus was Divinely concieved - who would that make - His Father? If He wasn't conceived by ANY human male - doesn't that make God His Father?
Yes - it does - Because God is Great!
OK. So the French convict 3 notorious jihadi skunks. So what? What're we supposed to say in admiration - "Thank you for doing your job and saving your own ass"??
There must be a mistake here,I watched a TV special about Ried and his Mother backed for him as being innocent,why waste all that money on Court cases and Police work when we should just ask the Mother of the terrorists if her child is guilty or not.
I mean,they're all nice boys and follow the peaceful teachings of Muhammed and violence is
unIslamic so how could any Muslim be tied to terrorism.
NO ISLAM - KNOW PEACE
ala-sux; I, on the other hand, have seen an interview with Reid's father. He spent his life as a petty crook and blamed himself for having been a bad role model for the boy and not having been there for him when needed. So, in effect, this man had the worst kind of upbringing possible: father both dishonest and absent, possibly violent, certainly incapable (as he admits) to give moral guidance; and mother, from what you say, sentimental, spoiling, blind to her boy's flaws, always certain that he is just a poor misunderstood and hard-done-by sweetie. From the father, he would learn crime as a way of life, and from the mother, to always feel misunderstood and to consider that whatever went wrong in his life was the fault of others. And of such is, if not the Kingdom of Heaven, at least certainly the 72 Virgins and assorted sensual delights of the paradise of Allah.
There's nothing new in all of this pansy justice in Europe... Remember that the only terrorist so far convicted of abetting his pious Muslim buddy Muhammad Atta, (the walking cadaver Motassadeq) was convicted in Germany, and received only 15 years after being found guilty of accessory to murdering 3,000 souls. That amounts to 2 months incarceration for each murder he abetted. That's moral relativism for ya. And it gets better! In March, 2004, the Federal Court in Germany overturned his conviction and blamed America's unwillingness to allow the cadaver carte blanche access to US intelligence agents and high level terrorist prisoners. That's what trials in civilian courts will get you -- laughable if not tragic results. The Germans and French are the loudest detractors of Gitmo and Abu Ghraib, yet want to be taken seriously when they show nothing but impotence in the face of the Islamic onslaught... I think these pious Muslims should be squeezed for every drop of intelligence, and then disposed of like the trash they are.
In case you don't remember his filthy Muslim mug -- here's his photo:
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/040304/040304_germany_motassadeq_vsml_4a.vsmall.jpg
At least pandering to the islamic hordes in their midst is a sin that begets its own punishment -- more muslims, more visciousness, and more dhimmitude. France is lost, but I believe the Dutch are someday going to awaken with a vengeance. There will come a day when the Dutch government becomes more afraid of its citizens than its parasites.
OK. So the French convict 3 notorious jihadi skunks. So what? What're we supposed to say in admiration - "Thank you for doing your job and saving your own ass"??
Posted by: voletti at June 16, 2005 03:05 PM
BUT did they really??
2 let go??
1 old man 3 yrs then back to terrorist land for him what he is again from the country PAKISTAN??
No the French are knee deep in thei look now we have from one of their holds Alegiear sending islamic terrorist to Iraq??
YET 2ND IN THE DEMOCRATS SENATE NOW PLAYING ON AL JIZZI??
DICK DERBAN WE HAVE NOT FORGOTTEN YOU WENT TO IRAQ AND PRASIED saddam[] DID HE SHOW YOU THE MASS GRAVES?? DICKIE BOY WELL WE ARE WATCHING WHO STANDS WITH YOU NO THE FLOOR AND THE DEMOCRATS ONCE AGAIN HOW THEY ARE A DANGER TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE??
LOOK AT HOW WE KEPT PRISNERS IN WW2??
WAR PRISNERS DO NOT GET LAWYERS PIRED THEY ARE ALLOWED TO BE KEPT UNTIL THE WAR IS OVER??
REMEMBER CLINTON DECLAERED A WAR ON TERROR WELL THESE MONSTERS ARE TERRORIST!!!
THE THING DICKIE SHOULD BE WORRIED ABOUT IS THAT IRAN IS SENDING MONSTERS TO KILL IRAQIS AND AMERICANS AND OTHERS???
NO DICKIE DERBAN A DEMOCRAT IN THE SENATE PROVES DEMOCRATS ARE A DANGER TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLES SECURITY!!!!
AND WALTER B. JONES WAS A DEMOCRAT AND IS SHOWING HIS TRUE COLORS????
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength, Wisdom, Sight, and Courage to Destroy ALL islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Open the Worlds Eyes to their Threat Amen
Seams that the French said they used and Inter-net café well now thanks to the wimps in the Senate Democrats we can not ck library computers so if there is another Attack on the USA it will be the Democrats fault??
Remember even now it is the Democrats #2 man in the Senate to say we can not get info from Islamic Terrorist in Getmo caught on the battle so if making some one to cold or hot is tomuch for the Democrats what will the American People do to the Democrats after the Attack??
And the sad thing is they have NO SHAME???
SHAME SHAME SHAME THE DEMOCRATS AND RINOS ARE A DANGER TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE!!
THEY DIDN’T HAVE TO MAKE THE LAW PERMENT THEY COULD JUST HAVE PUT ANOTHER SUNSET CLAUSE??
THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DON’T WANT THESE MONSTERS RUNNING LOOSE THE DEMOCRATS ONCE AGAIN TIE THE HANDS OF THE PEOPLE FIGHTING THE ENEMIES OF THE USA SHAME SHAME SHAME!!!
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159763,00.html
"This is a major defeat for the Al Qaeda organization in Iraq," he said, referring to the group led by Zarqawi and allied to Usama bin Laden's Al Qaeda (search) network. "Numerous reports indicated he wore a suicide vest 24 hours a day and stated that he would never surrender. Instead, Talha gave up without a fight."
Shaiker was captured on Tuesday in a quiet neighborhood of Iraq's third largest city, the Alston said. He said Shaiker put up little resistance in surrendering to coalition forces and supporting Iraqi security forces, and is fully cooperating with officials
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/6/16/155546.shtml
House Ready to Give Pentagon $45B for Wars
NewsMax.com Wires
Friday, June 17, 2005
WASHINGTON -- The House is poised to give the Pentagon an additional $45 billion for wars next year,
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/6/16/134231.shtml
Thursday, June 16, 2005 1:39 p.m. EDT
Saudi Expert: Al-Qaida Plans 'Catastrophic' Attack
Al-Qaida is far from being neutralized and is planning its next "catastrophic" attack, according to a top expert on the terrorist organization.
Dr. Saad al-Faqih, who heads the Saudi opposition group Movement for Islamic Reform in Arabia, was asked in an interview in London if there is any credence to reports of al-Qaida's "demise." His response was chilling: "Nobody knows how al-Qaida really works. Consider, for instance, that the time lapse between the Africa embassy bombings and 9/11 was more than three years. Therefore the fact that no major attack has taken place since 9/11 is not altogether very surprising.
OH REALLY YOU MUST REALLY THINK WE ARE SUCKERS???
SINCE YOU EVEN HAVE PEOPLE IN THE ROYAL FAMILY WHO FUND THEM??
Al-Faqih also predicted that 'al-Qaida in Iraq' leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi would likely be killed soon – and said that ordinary Saudis view their government's support for the occupation of Iraq as "treason.”
HUMM???
COULD WE BE SEEING A POWER PLAY??/
WILL WE SEE DOWN FALL IN OIL PRICES
SEAMS WE HAVE OIL HERE IN THE USA WE WILL BE OKAY WILL IT COST SOME MONEY YEA BUT WE WILL HAVE FOOD ON OUR SHELVES!!!
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength, Wisdom, Sight, and Courage to Destroy All Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Amen
I have a correction for my previous post -- The German Court gave Moutassadeq 1.82 days per victim for abetting Atta in the 9/11 atrocity. (1.82) * (3000 murder victims) * (365days/yr) = 15 year sentence. That's the penalty Germany affixes to each human life he helped to exterminate. Pretty low price to extract for such a heinous crime -- The Germans are depraved, and the French are even worse than the Germans!!!
Here he comes again:
http://www.terrorists-suck.org/fight/the_shoe_bomber.mp3
jsla-
Using the Muslim/infidel exchange rate, your second calculation sounds closer to being right, but you forgot to deduct the 1/2 values for women, since they are only worth half of a man in Islam.
Adjusted for this, it's about 3 days per 9/11 victim.
With time off for good behavior, (if he ever serves any) that would give him enough days in jail to read the Koran through once. Dispensed to him with white gloves, and using only the right hand, of course. Gitmo Eitquette, Rule #22.
Sorry, Paolo, Islam cannot be Calvinistic. Calvin was a thorough Trinitarian, believe in both the deity and humanity of Christ, and in salvation by grace rather than works. As for predestination, dust off Aurelius Augustinus, and before him, Paul and John.
Further, instead of teaching that Christians would have a "rightly guided leader" following Christ, Calvin taught that systems of limited government (aristocracy tinged with democracy) should prevail among Christians.
Otherwise, you're on the money about the peculiar combination of docetism and a less-than-Socinian Christology.
My dear Kepha,
I am sorry to have take you on when you are one of the posters on this site I respect most, but, in this matter, you argue like a Muslim - in other words, not to the point, and not in response to anything I wrote. Nobody ever condemned Calvin's theology of the Trinity, and I did not say that those were the grounds on which Islam resembled Calvinism. I said that it was like Calvinism in its belief in double predestination. You do not deny that. I said that the Catholic Church condemned it (remember that I am writing from the standpoint of the Catholic Church, not of C.S.Lewis' "mere Christianity" or of the Protestant wish-dreams of "the Church Catholic" or "the Invisible Church".) You only argue from authority, from some of St.Augustine's later writings, and from your understanding of some of the Epistles. Now St.Augustine was a great genius and a great saint, but he was neither Pope nor infallible, and the Church rejected double predestination long before Calvin - read up on the heretic Gottschalk. In this matter, Augustine contradicts Augustine, not to mention St.John - "God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all". God does not create, will, or ordain evil; He allows it, because He has given His creatures free will. Therefore, to ascribe to God the will that certain specific ones of His creatures should be damned is contradictory. It is like saying that God was responsible for Hitler. No; God was responsible for the Bohoeffers and Schwarzschilds and Winston Churchills of this world, those who opposed Hitler, because they did the will of God (In la sua voluntade e' nostra pace), and Hitler very deliberately did not. It was the will of Hitler, not the will of God, that Hitler should damn his own soul. The Calvinist reading of Augustine and Paul has been repeatedly challenged; if you wish to cling to it, that is your business, but the vast majority of Christians throughout the world disagree with you - and, above all, you cannot ask me to accept a teaching which I regard as wrong both in its Muslim and in its Calvinist context.
As for the history of limited government in the West, you are actually dealing with a current topic of reflection of mine. If we can find a way to exchange e-mail addresses without publishing them on this site - which is regularly trawled by hostile eyes - I will share with you some thoughts I am having on the matter.