A note from a moderate Muslim

Islam cannot deal with any criticism of its core beliefs.

Nor can islam adequetly explain all of the issues the Koran has...

Christianity can as well as judiasm...
Even if you question us we wont kill you ...

Yet this is the only recoure muslims have as their entire beliefe system is so full of holes you could flya space shuttle through it..

Since when did it become evil to point out evil?

Or why would it make someone angry to have those who are purportedly 'hijacking' their professed 'religion of peace' called to task for their intolerant and homicidal methods and imperialistic, totalitarian aims?

Of course, the answer is:

crooks hate people who yell "Look, a crook!" while they are right in the middle of their nefarious 'business'. (In this case, jihad.)

I would think that the emailer is one more 'crook'... who just doesn't like all the attention being drawn by JW/DW to their international criminal operations.

(I'll bet "Super_Garp"'s typing fingers must be sore from hitting "send" 108 times!)

Robert
Any chance can you clrify as to what site ia is referring to

Jihadwatch is like my second home, I am starting to feel real comfy there, I am getting used to being verbally abused and called a Nazi. I could never leave you guys
You seem to think very highly of Robert Spencer. As I have stated before (You may have missed this). This Zionist sent his chums to a forum to attack me and my beloved Brothers and Sisters. Their hearts are worth more to me than all the treasures in the World.
God has stated that the heart of a believer is the home of God. My senior brothers and sisters crushed the attack and the cowards were left humiliated, the haters admitted to their true agenda. That victory was indeed a great one. The foundations of the World Wide Web shook that very night, fear was installed into the hearts of the Godless Zionists worldwide plotting against the lovers of God and his beloved Messengers.
I have uncovered Robert Spencer’s true agenda, I have challenged him directly and openly, this coward is probably sitting at home, hiding under his bed. His plot has been uncovered, the simple fact is that his heart beats for the hate of Muslims and for the love of a political movement that goes against his own religion, Zionism. This coward can hide from me and my brothers and sisters, let the whole Word know that this guy is a coward. He challenged us, My senior brother (Lion of God) replied ‘any time, any place’ , Robert Spencer made a run for it. How great is the Glory of our Lord. Truth will overcome falsehood.

ia quotes again
God knows best. What you are doing is insignificant. Why am I here, well the will of God is best, whatever God wills will surely happen, No doubt. I am a member of another forum, well a guy registered, he put his name as Robert Spencer. Well he challenged the God fearing brothers and sisters on the forum, well lets just say that the well structured arguments of my senior brothers and sisters were used to brutally assault the Zionist attack. The attack was completely vanquished and the fellow had to confess as to the what his real purpose was, Such is the glory of Islam. How great is the Glory of the Lord? Well although the forum is new and has a small (but rapidly growing) amount of members I felt that I needed to find out about this chap called Robert Spencer and his true agenda. I discovered that he is really just a Zionist, manipulating gullible Americans into fearing all Muslims. He has tried with utmost care and subtlety to brand Sunni Islam with Wahabi Islam. He has tried to say all the Muslims are the same and are a threat, this is a subtle attempt but I will declare that God bestows victory on those he wishes. Robert Spencer has also manipulated Americans into believing Israel is like the 51st State of America. I actually feel sorry for the guy, from the articles he puts up it is so blatant that he absolutely hates Islam with all his heart. I pity him. We only live once, he should be out enjoying himself, enjoying quality time with his family. We live in a beautiful world. He is just a slave to his ego and Zionism, a political movement that goes against the very essence of Judaism. I really pity the chap

Hoping you can repond to this,many thanx in advance
Shiva

Shiva, thanks.

The whole thing is a fabrication. I never post on Islamic forums or any other forums. Nor have I ever sent other people to do so.

Someone may be posting somewhere using my name -- I don't know. But in any case I have no control over that, or any knowledge of it.

I will gladly debate any serious opponent in a public forum. I have never run from any such debate.

Cordially
Robert Spencer

Thank you
shiva

Perhaps the little darling is beginning to realise that more and more people are now becoming aware of the muslim's game and he doesn't like it, does he?
Certainly with Robert's work and with the recent London bombings, your average Joe's on the street now know this is a real problem and not something that seems too ridiculous to be true and hard to believe.
This idiot probably realises things may not be so easy for them now.
Being the peaceful soul he obviously is, he has responded in the only way he has been taught.

"Perhaps the little darling is beginning to realise that more and more people are now becoming aware of the muslim's game.."
-- from a posting above

Imagine that you are a Muslim, of the kind who will not or cannot admit to the nature of Islam (i.e, 99%). Even if you do not subscribe fully to all of what Islam teaches, even if you know how much of what Infidel critics say is true, even if you recognize that Ibn Warraq and Ali Sina have the texts and logic and history on their side, it pains you so much to consider this, that you simply put it out of your head. It seems to call into question every aspect of your being, of your past, of the past of your ancestors. If you are Pakistani, it calls into question why, centuries ago (or more recently) your own Hindu ancestoers had to convert to Islam -- ancestors whom you do not wish even to think about, for a minute, much less contemplate the conditions those ancestors endured under Islam before they converted or "reverted."

Many Muslims now live in the West. Many more would like to. Those in the West do not want various applecarts upset. They want to keep making demands to change that West to something more of their liking. Yet they also are quick to sense when it is time to draw back, to engage in what some may think of as convincing taqiyya and tu-quoque. It has worked before. Why shouldn't it work again, work for decades, until such time as the Muslim presence has become too strong?

But here is the problem. Non-Muslims have chosen to ignore their ruling clasess, and the "experts" whom they can see through -- for what we are dealing with is not elementary particle physics, and anyone can read the texts and the history, and if sufficiently intelligent, and willint to put in the time, will know as much as any of those who have been so loyallly serving as apologists for Islam in the universities and chanceries of the Western world. It isn't something supremely difficult to comprehend.

Furthermore, there is one problem that Muslims simply cannot escape: the texts are not hieratic. They are not hidden from view. They are not impossible to obtain, to read, even in various translations that are helpfully laid out synoptically. Anyone can get hold of the Qur'an, the Hadith, and the Sira. Anyone can read articles that treat of particular topics -- the Muslim Jesus, or the Muslim atittude toward Infidels, or the Jihad-verses of the Qur'an, or what leading figures in the history of Islam have said about the necessity for Jihad, and how they have understood that term. How can Muslims possibly think that they can indefinitely prevent large numbers of non-Muslims from finding out about Islam, what it teaches, about Infidels, about women, about art and music and free inquiry that underlies science -- how do they propose to do this, forever?

And how do they propose to prevent us from consulting the historicl works that tell us what happened to those non-Muslims -- Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians, Hindus, Buddhists (and latterly, Sikhs, and others, including those sects deemed insufficiently Muslim, such as the Ahmadiyyas)? They can't buy up every university department's members, they can't cut off all the texts put on the Internet, they can't prevent all the history books from being published or distributed (including publication on the Internet).

It's a big job. Too big for anybody. As time passes, as more and more people inform themselves, and as they inform themselves so many things will fall into place, will begin to make sense to them (such things as the Jihad against Israel, or the permanence of Islam in Turkey that will outlast Kemalist "secularism" or the behavior of Muslims in Europe, where despite every advantage and kindness of Western society, the texts, the tenets, the attitudes, the atmospherics, can be imbibed thousands of miles from their original homes in dar al-Islam).

The explanation for the behavior and atittudes and hysteria and hate of Muslims can be found in Islam itself. It is directed outward, at all non-Muslims, not only Americans, or Israelis, or Europeans. And as it contains an Arab supremacist ideolgoy within the belief-system of Islam, it naturally prompts the kind of Arab behavior we have seen repeatedly -- the Muslim Arab massacre of Muslim Kurds, the Muslim Arab massacre of Muslim black Africans in Darfur, the Muslim Arab cultural and linguistic imperialism that has done such damage, over centuries, to the Berbers all over North Africa.

But what are you going to do? Ban the Qur'an, ban the hadith, ban the Sira, ban the history books, ban the memories of all those non-Muslims who have lived, and endured, Muslim mistreatment, or ban all those non-Arab Muslims who have also endured Arab Muslim mistreatment?

It can't be done. It's too late. The terrorism started just a bit too soon. Now the genie -- the djinn -- is out of the bottle. And this is not a djinn here to do the bidding, or fulfill the wishes, of Muslims -- but of Infidels.

What has been done cannot be undone. It is too late.

think theres any coincidence to the fact that the user shiva picked the name of an Ebola variant mentioned in a Tom Clancy book? and a book that is dedicated to counter terrorist operations against an enemy that uses a biological agent (the fictional shiva strain of Ebola) in a massive WMD attack, no less.

me thinks that says a whole lot about our current muslim commentator and his remarks.

ev

This question may be in poor taste, but I can't help wondering whether Robert has any fears. I don't expect an answer. At any rate, it evidently hasn't stopped him...

Yes, indeed, we of the Western masses are rapidly learning about Islam and all that it will to mean to us IF Islam becomes a factor of governance among us. The genie is out of the bottle for we are educating each other regardless of the misinformation given by some in higher education and in government. If Muslims don't like it, well...tough!!!

BIG SLEEP (wake up; love your name!) hit the nail right on the head:

"Since when did it become evil to point out evil?"

THIS is the problem Muslims have with everyone else, especially those like the "REAL Robert Spencer," not the fabricated one on the unnamed website of shiva's - we can refer to OUR RS as Darth.....anyway, BIG SLEEP is right -

THEY ACT
HE REPORTS ON THEIR ACTIONS
IF THEY WERE PEACEFUL - HE'D REPORT PEACE
END OF STORY

WHERE IS THE CRIME?????

Benjamin - which Robert are you referring to? Ours? or shiva's?

No smart person would admit to having fears, just take the necessary precations, which I assure you, our RS will / has / can do.

Now, the "imitation RS" needs to run and pretty fast...they can use his name (nothing illegal about it) but they can't use his likeness, or say he is JW's RS....then, he crosses the line.

further, this emailer to our RS is NOT a moderate Muslim - and RS has every right to tell him, "hey buddy, YOUR people have threatened me - how moderate is that?"

People, wake up and smell the enemy: THERE ARE NO LEVELS OF ENEMY [moderate, radical, etc] - they lump us together, so, IN TIMES OF WAR, we must do the same.

They create news. Robert reports it. Amen!

i would almost pay for someone to translate shiva's remarks above - who is stating what - who is the zioinst - why is referring to "ia?" etc...i am on a mission to find the "bogus RS" and
i don't need fingerprints to discern, either.

So what if average muslims become angry, so what? Ohhhh wait, what is really being implied is once a muslim becomes angry he "might" become dangerous?

Now if you are a peaceful muslim why the warning? Might it be that you concede that a peaceful muslim once angered could lash out? Why would he/she consider doing that?

Typical "peaceful" muslim, using the acts of an angered muslim to threaten someone to stop speaking about what the angered muslim states is his justification.

Islam is growing across the globe in the exact same fashion it has always grown. With violence, or with threats of violence.

Moose

"Say islam is a religion of peace® or I'll kill you!"

Hi JW gal,

Of course, I'm referring to the real Robert Spencer. I guess that was my clumsy way of saying that he is quite brave, ever since what happened to Van Gogh. (And I'm not talking about the one who cut off his ear.) Well, the immigrants to Israel are also brave. As are our soldiers. Or the Iraqis who voted. Etc.

Benjamin
http://orionnewsblog.blogspot.com/

This ia, who claim to be a sufi muslim, speaks in a much different tone when he thinks those of us he he tries to confuse with his jibberish on JW cannot hear him. Yet he is paranoid thinking we all want to kill him. Once again, I'd suggest that if he is truly a sufi, then perhaps he is in danger. There are millions of other muslims who would consider him an apostate and would like to kill him.

Robert, this just goes to show that when it comes to telling the truth about Islam, no good deed goes unpunished.

Now that I re-read the post of ia, it is evident that his claim to being of the sufi sect is just another one of his many lies. We infidels are held in lowest regard by muslims, never deserving of even their own distorted version of the truth. Ignore this taqiyya-spewing imbecile.

In Islam, there is no criticizing Islam. Under Shariah that is grounds for murder. As an apostate of Islam, I can be murdered. Just as being a normal person criticizing Islam that is viewed as standing in the Way of Islam, or what many consider "attacking first" Whenever you quote anything in the quran or hadith that allows murder, you are being intolerant and not understanding the true "beauty" of Islam....and you are always taking everything out of context I could write the whole quran to them, and still I am taking a quote out of context. If you follow Islam there is nothing that allows moderate muslims....

And fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but be not aggressive. Surely Allah loves not the aggressors.

And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from where they drove you out, and persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it; so if they fight you there, slay them. Such is the recompense of disbelievers.

But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

And fight them until there is no persecution, and religion is only for Allah. But if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors.

The sacred month for the sacred month, and retaliation in sacred things. Whoever then acts aggressively against you, inflict injury on him according to the injury he has inflicted on you and keep your duty to Allah, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty.

— II:190-195

And let those fight in the way of Allah who sell this world's life for the Hereafter. And whoever fights in the way of Allah, be slain or be he victorious, We shall grant him a mighty reward.

— IV:74

So when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. But if they repent, and keep up prayer, and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free. Surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

— IX:5

Fight those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which Allah and His Messenger have forbidden, nor follow the Religion of Truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgement of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

— IX:29

The prophet was anything but holy. Sad that 1.2 billion people model their lives after a man who at 52 had a 6 year old wife, fought in numerous wars, raped, etc. Sure..sounds like a man of God to me

Hi JW gal
Benjamin - which Robert are you referring to? Ours? or shiva's?

Hi JW gal
Your question to Benjamin is a bit out,The comment above from me was a question to Robert to
to clarify ia786,s posting at FFI

http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8371&start=1770&sid=00b056a8b51cdf962fdc410dbc060577
If you care to click the link you will see that
the false Robert is ia786,s not mine
I would like to add,on many thing I disagree with Mr Spencer,but I have deep respect for him and all the other poster on this forum,with the exception of a few islamic trolls such as ia666

Benjamin
I think that Roberts fear is our best friend!!!
Because without that fear there would be no jihad watch

posted on dhimmiwatch:
ia786 as a true muslim and beleiver, says

`That is what more than 1 billion Muslims do, we practise Islam peacefully, we follow the Muslim leaders, we follow the advice of the Prophet, we stick to the largest groups and we avoid extremism, as Hazrat Ali (r.a.) said: Extremism is ignorance.`
In the past he has also denied that hate verses exist in the Koran.

So the Koran is ignorant, Sudayis at the main mosque in Mecca is ignorant, Qaradhawi is ignorant, those 60 million hindus, 3million bangladeshis, 1 million sudanese victims had to die as a result of these `moderates` ignorance?

Sufis are not very good people. They have a dirty record too (but ia thinks its commendabl.

This is a brief on what Sufism is, and we know where ia stands with his foot placed on king tolerance`s neck:

O]ne must go on jihad (i.e., warlike razzias or raids) at least once a year...one may use a catapult against them [non-Muslims] when they are in a fortress, even if among them are women and children. One may set fire to them and/or drown them...If a person of the Ahl al-Kitab [People of The Book – primarily Jews and Christians] is enslaved, his marriage is [automatically] revoked…One may cut down their trees...One must destroy their useless books. Jihadists may take as booty whatever they decide...they may steal as much food as they need...
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/004940.php

SHIVA ~ thank you for being the one to clarify this for me. I was not being out, other than "out in left field," because I was totally lost on this thread and wanted to be sure I understood what was posted.

As for Benjamin, am quite sure that our RS, aka Darth Spencer, is quite protected.

SHIVA ~ thank you for being the one to clarify this for me, as I was confused by the threads above. No disrespect intended; just had to understand for myself and am never afraid to ask or be asked for an explanation.

Benjamin, I am quite sure that our/the real RS, aka Darth Spencer is well protected and not afraid, as it should be.

Lemme get my hands on the imitator -

This has got to have been one of the more confusing threads I have read on this site.

All I can say to Mr. Spencer is that Sir, I love your books, I wish to add the latest one to my collection of cherished books that I will introduce to my cousins in India and Nepal. God bless you for the work you are doing, it takes a lot of dedication and guts to face these monsters who fight with cowardly tactics. Although I had a deep rooted disgust for Islam, which I would frequently admit to one of my closest friends who happens to be a catholic priest (go figure, an orthodox Hindu and a Catholic priest sharing a smoke and drinks over lunch), your knowledge and books have provided insight to many things I have heard, read and experienced throughout my life.

And if these bastards threaten you, to hell with them, they have tried to silence the truth for far too long. As we Gurkhas, descendants of the mighty Rajputs of Mewar who defeated the Muslims always say:

KAPHAR HUNNU BHANDA MORNU RAMRO CHHAA
(It is better to die Brave than live as a coward)

Hats off to you Mr. Spencer.

-Cheers.

Ayo Gorkhali (trans: Here come the Gurkhas!)

"Bravest of the brave, most generous of the generous, never had country more faithful friends than you."
Sir Ralph Turner (former officer in the 3rd Gurkha Rifles).
Carved on the London memorial to Gurkha soldiers unveiled by Queen Elizabeth II on December 3, 1997

Don't you fools understand? You are only making them more and more angry with your foolish western values and resistance. Stop listening to the muslim leaders who are calling for Jihad..we are a religion of peace. Resistance is futile..futile I tell you!

is that shmuck ia an 11 year-old 6th grader? his laughable bluster reminds me of the schoolyard;

"i know you are but what am i?"
"no, you are" "no, YOU are"

he's a pathetic, ineffectual, LITTLE MAN, disrupting the adults conversation by kicking our shins, throwing tantrums, and using
"naughty" words to gain attention, like any brat who's parents did a lousy job raising him.

he's not dark, dangerous, or even scary, other than the threat of us believing his laughable efforts are indicative of some sort of norm.

white noise folks, white noise. send him back to eat at the "kids table" in the kitchen and let the adults continue in peace.

Anger is a legitimate emotion .. it's where and how that anger is focused that is the problem. For instance, homicide bombing and beheading are no-nos but it seems even "moderate" Muslims are "angered" to commit such heinous acts.

Now we have a few "moderate" Muslims coming out and writing articles saying "they" don't have anything to apologise for. I guess they don't understand the anger their skewed religion is causing amongst "normal" people. Should all these "moderate" Muslims care to invest their energies into unskewing the skewed, someone, some where might begin to believe they actually are "moderate" and trying to help rather than obscure and support. Doesn't take Einstein to figure that out. Are there any Einstein quality Muslims?

http://www.sacredcowburgers.com/mystery/showpics.cgi?real_islam

ev/eff_islam:

shiva is anti-jihad. He was quoting the posts of a muslim, ia786, at another forum.

Hope that clears that up.

CGW
shiva is anti-jihad.
I would say I am exremely anti-jihad.

@Carolyn2: I am glad you put up that link. I was a little taken aback by the domain name. Well this was their disclaimer on the site:

General Disclaimer
This site is a Political-Correctness-Free Zone. If we have somehow offended you...well, tough buttons. We didn't take the name "Sacred Cow Burgers" to appeal to anyone's oh-so-delicate sensitivities. Unless you're living in Iran, North Korea, Red China, Massachussetts, New Jersey, California, or some other totalitarian state, ain't nobody holding a gun to your head to make you visit this site. You may have a right to be offended, but that doesn't mean you have a right to be taken seriously. If you don't like it, begone vile hominid!
**********************************************

I don't think they realise that they have just shown themselves to be uneducated bigots, which defeats the purpose of trying to send an educated message against the Jihadis.

Iran is Islamic: thus a lot of Burgers there.

North Korea is Communist: a lot of Burgers there.

Red China is Communist: a lot of burgers there.

"Massachussetts, New Jersey, California, or some other totalitarian state": well thats just more Burgers.

Pork is the key and the sword of truth here.

In case this person has not been past their corner store, or even across the street, they should have known that Hindus and Buddhists (even though a lot do not observe the prohibition due to not knowing the scriptures) do not eat beef. And if he wanted this directed towards Jihadis, then he/she should have named the website "Huge Lard dripping Pork Sausages" or "Non-Halal Pork is so GOOD" or "Huge Italian Hot Sausages", well the last one didn't come out right, but you get my drift, its all about pork.

Now those names I have mentioned could have hit the nail. However, the name they are using defeats the whole purpose and just shows ignorance, which is something the Jihadis wish that most people on this forum would show, however thank God we are such an ethnic mix united against a single monster, that is where our strength lies.

Yes Gorkhali, the jihadists like it when we are divided. We need each other, sooner or later all will come to understand.

Hugh,
Wanted to thank you for your post here.
Have come to the same conclusion as yourself, that we are having critical mass changes in the stupid denial of the general culture regarding the apologists and deceivers of Islam and their defenders - mostly the left and those who have been papered over with Saudi dollars.
After years of sending fighting emails, its wonderful to see people willing to look at Islamic teachings free from "introducers" acolytes,liers and apologists, and it surely is a wonderful battle cry: look what these fools say, look at what the texts actually say. Is sedition preached in the mosques (Sharia) ? Are they taught to hate all non muslims ?
Hope this is really a change and not just us freedom fighters getting excited and hoping it is.
CT diplomat Andrea found your post helpful, many thanks as well.

Hugh,
Wanted to thank you for your post here.
Have come to the same conclusion as yourself, that we are having critical mass changes in the stupid denial of the general culture regarding the apologists and deceivers and their defenders - mostly the left and those who have been papered over with Saudi dollars.
After years of sending fighting emails, its wonderful to see people willing to look at Islamic teachings free from "introducers" acolytes,liers and apologists, and it surely is a wonderful battle cry: look what they say, look at what the texts actually say. Is sedition possibly preached in some mosques ? Are they taught to hate all non muslims ?
Hope this is really a change and not just us freedom fighters getting excited and hoping it is.
CT diplomat Andrea found your post helpful, many thanks as well.

Obviously this is ia786 who comes across as either a very confused individual, or a masterful liar. He is most probably a 15 year old living near Heathrow.

I have visited this site for a while to get clarity on my thinking, I will not be visiting as much now, (weekends only) but I would like to thank, Robert and Hugh and the other posters here for assisting me in working out exactly what is going on and more importantly what to do about it. I still like Ali Sina's approach.

I see signs that the Elite class are finally getting engaged on the issue and starting to work out what they should do about it, well better late then never, though if they had got off their leather backed chairs quicker the damage would be less.

One thing I think is worth observing about this: "you are turning average muslims into angry muslims."
Robert at July 31, 2005 03:11 PM

We do not approve of hate mail whatever be the provocation. It is wrong. I hope that the person, who sent the hate mail, if he or she is a Muslim, would change his or her ways. As is done by the governments of USA and UK by carrying out the 9/11 and 7/7 by themselves and blaming the Muslims, given the anonymity of the Internet, it could be any person to make the people interacting through this site angry with Muslims. The person, who sent the hate mail need not necessarily be a Muslim.

We do hope that Robert would speak against the unjust “War on terrorism” waged by the war mongers. The Muslims see that they are accused unjustly; their towns are obliterated; their women are raped; their men are killed by cluster bombs not caring for the collateral damage. These cause anger.

Yes, Robert, please wage your jihad with your pen against injustice everywhere. Some perceive that you are simply supporting the war mongers. Forgive me if I am wrong.

I wish you well. You are doing a great service by letting the people vent their steam. Please keep it up. May God Almighty help you.

One thing I think is worth observing about this: "you are turning average muslims into angry muslims."
How am I doing this, if I am really doing it at all?
Robert at July 31, 2005 03:11 PM

Robert, what do you say to this? From http://context.themoscowtimes.com/story/154946/
===
This would be the first veto of Bush's presidency: a mark of the supreme importance he places on his ability to seize people without charges, hold them indefinitely, break their bodies and their minds, then dispose of them as he pleases. This power is obviously more important to him than the defense of the nation itself.
===

MoHiding-

You've made it clear that you're just one of countless Muslims who believe that the U.S. government was directly behind the events of 9/11.

If you can refrain from mentioning the usual details from this revolting conspiracy theory such as Atta's passport being found intact (I've never heard this anywhere else except from Islamic conspiracy theorists)can you give me just ONE good reason why the United States would willingly destroy a huge section of the Pentagon, murder thousands of its own citizens, and cause nationwide economic disaster which benefits NO ONE, the ripples of which are still being felt today?

I've just always been puzzled by the inability of many Muslims to apply the most basic principles of logic to situations. Maybe you can help me out with this.

I've just always been puzzled by the inability of many Muslims to apply the most basic principles of logic to situations. Maybe you can help me out with this.
kafira at August 2, 2005 09:52 AM

No, I won't. Everyone knows that one could awaken a sleeping person, but not one who acts as though sleeping. May be this article would help. Please read all of:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=SCO20050729&articleId=759