This is such a common story: a Sheikh denies Muslim involvement in terror attacks, and "moderate Islamic leaders" refuse to condemn his statements. There is a culture-wide evasion of responsibility and scapegoating of outsiders (particularly Jews) in the Islamic world that only feeds more jihad violence.
From Australia's ABC Online, with thanks to OBL r Us:
TONY JONES: Well, meanwhile, one of Australia's most controversial Islamic clerics has again stirred enmity with comments on this program last night defending Osama bin Laden and denying Al Qaeda's involvement in terrorist attacks, including those in London, and even New York on September 11. Moderate Islamic leaders though have refused to condemn his statements and their response has infuriated some commentators. Meanwhile, a Melbourne-based Jewish organisation has accused Sheikh Mohammed Omran of disseminating anti-Semitic material. Michael Edwards has this report.MICHAEL EDWARDS: The London bombings and an escalation of military activity in Afghanistan have once again violently brought the world's attention to the conflict between Islamic extremism and the West. But to Australian cleric Sheikh Omran there's no proof Islamic extremists have any involvement. He even went as far as to say Osama bin Laden is a great man for some of his actions.
SHEIKH MOHAMMED OMRAN, ISLAMIC CLERIC: When you look at the man, from some part of his life, yes, he is. From another part, well, again, what action we are talking about? I dispute any evil action linked to bin Laden. Again, I don't believe that even September 11 - from the beginning, I don't believe that it was done by any Muslim at all, or any other activities. London, as I said just a few seconds ago, never done yet - no one proven that any Muslim has a hand in it.
MICHAEL EDWARDS: Sheikh Omran has been linked to the fundamentalist Wahhabi sect of Islam and to several figures well known in Europe for their ideology of jihad against the West. He admits he's a close friend of radical British cleric Abu Qatada and that he taught Bilal Khazal, the former baggage handler awaiting trial on terrorism charges. But after his statements last night there's been a muted response from Islamic moderates in Australia.
ALY WALEED, ISLAMIC COUNCIL OF VICTORIA: It's a view that many might see as delusional, but that's very different from saying it's a view that is necessarily sinister.
MICHAEL EDWARDS: The mufti of Australia's Muslims, Sheikh al-Hilaly, has condemned the London bombings but he wouldn't comment on camera about Sheikh Omran's comments to Lateline last night, He's concerned it will inflame existing tensions between radical and moderate members of the Islamic community....
Existing tensions between radical and moderate members of the Islamic community? Really? Let's hear more about that.
Again, what is an "Islamic moderate"? If someone lies or obfuscates about what is in the texts, or how those texts have been interpreted (does "naskh" or the doctrine of "abrogation" make those texts still more dangerous for Infidels, or less?), if the objective result of any "moderate" Muslim's behavior is to further in Infidels a misunderstanding of Islamic doctrine, or how the tenets of Islam might be reasonably received, and in fact are received, have been received, over a very long period (the only change, in the last few decades, has not been in doctrine of Jihad, but with OPEC oil revenues, large Muslim populations behind Infidel -- enemy Infidel -- lines, and technological advances that have made possible the widespread distrbution of Islamic texts and related propaganda to Muslims in the humblest Afghani villages and to chip-shops and even an off-license in Leeds or Liverpool, or London, and in a couscous vendor in Barcelona or Lyons.
This adjective "moderate" so easily dropped in here and there and everywhere before the word "Muslim" or "Islam" (ah, and don't we feel so virtuous doing it -- Well done, thou good and faithful servant of your Muslim acquaintances and colleagues at work or play, the thought of whom, at every step, inhibits you from telling or writing the full truth) should be carefully defined. One may wish to look over some of the criteria of a "moderate" Muslim in an article posted here a while back - "Ten Things to Think About When Thinking About Moderate Muslims."
The irony is that moderate muslims are facing the same kind of isolation from radical muslims. I don't know if you heared the term "Takfeeri" before. The radical groups in the Islamic world are called Takfeeri because they are classifying moderate muslims who are not submissing to the will of the radical steams as Infidels! For the reason muslims are targets for terrorists as we see very often.
The idea that occured to me recently is that extremist people can not understand the word moderation. This amazing is the case with radical islamic groups and with many who write in this website as well. It seems like such extremists can accept that other people are but with or against them!
According to this mentality moderate muslims should leave this planet, becase they should be either deported from western countries or slaughtered in muslim countries!!
When will you understand that a moderate muslim is not against you, but not also with you ??
"bin Laden is a great man but had nothing to do with 9/11. In fact, 9/11 was a Zionist plot to discredit Islam even though America deserved it."
Isn't such dissonance between basic desires and the ability to consciously admit to them a symptom of schizophrenia?
ALY WALEED, ISLAMIC COUNCIL OF VICTORIA: It's a view that many might see as delusional, but that's very different from saying it's a view that is necessarily sinister.
HMMM??
THEN WHY CRY ABOUT PANTIES ON A HEAD IF CUTTING HEADS OFF IS NOT SINISTER???
http://www.beecy.net/frank/
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM AMEN
PS
Maybe the sat which carries al-jizzi might have a rock hit it if they don't stop spreading this hate and kill the west shit!!!!!!
PSS
batter up????
My goodness, the Prime Minister and British Muslims have had a 'wake up call'.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/4678821.stm
Now, he speaks of an 'evil ideology' among the Muslim community that is not 'true Islam'; and, he says, those who would promote resentment of British Muslims are 'the enemy of all of us' because they do what the 'extremists' want them to.
Promoting resentment of individual people is not the issue, Mr. Prime Minister, Islamic beliefs, jihadist ideology are the issues and it is essential to raise these issues to get to the heart of the problem. Does the Muslim Council of Britain renounce Sharia law as an objective? Does the Muslim Council of Britain denounce Sura 9, Sura 4, the hadith, like, for instance, the Sahih Bukhari. Take a look at what is said about jihad and martrydom.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html
If not, then, one must admit, that the Muslim Council of Britain, accepts the main principles that drive the bloody jihad against Britain; read Sura 9 and the hadith and tell us that this isn't so. The difference is that these 'moderates' appear not accept this particular means to achieve the end of Sharia law the elimination of non-belief, and the reversion of true Muslims in the United Kingdom. But, jihad is acceptable, and obliged. Martrydom is not only acceptable when one 'fights in the way of Allah', but it is the surest way to enter paradise. The seeds for violent Jihad exist in Islam as a belief system. These are the driving forces of this so-called 'evil ideology'.
The disagreements between the so-called moderates and the 'extremists' are simply matters of factual interpretation and causation:
the moderates do not believe that this kind of violence is justified given the kind of conflict that exists currently in Britain between non-believers and believers; but a conflict exists nonetheless and always will as long as non-belief exists. The issue is not ideological. The ideology is one: promote and defend Islam, and 'fight in the way of Allah' if you encounter resistence to Islamic values and beliefs, until non-belief in the Infidel lands is conquered.
Please begin reading JihadWatch, Mr. Prime Minister, most folks who read this blog are already quite awake, and, I am afraid, you are just beginning to come out of a deep slumber that will require some cold water, attention to Islam, jihadist ideology, Islamic history, and, hopefully, nothing more than a good slap in the face.
And, may I suggest a double shot of expresso.
avveroes:
Robert Spencer's basic contention is that there are, indeed, moderate Muslims, but Islam is not of itself moderate and can only become so through an earthshaking reform that would require the removal of large portions of the Quoran and most of the suras and haddiths as well.
The issue posters have on this site with self-proclaimed moderate Muslims is that so many of them are apologists for their orthodox brethren, giving them moral support if not financial support.
I could do no better than refer you to remarks by the editor of Al-Sharq Al-Awsat and columnist Amir Taheri on the failings of the moderate Muslim community in the face of the growth of extremist Muslims in Britain. Translations are courtesy of MEMRI:
Tariq Al-Humayd, editor-in-chief of the London daily Al-Sharq Al-Awsat, said that the incitement to Jihad in London had been visible but was never stopped: "In London, we have seen, and are seeing, the money being collected in the streets, and the conventions under various titles, and everyone is inciting to Jihad in our Arab countries and cursing the land of unbelief in which they live. When you express amazement [at this], they tell you that this is freedom. Has freedom no responsibility? No one answers.
"The incitement in London could have been read and seen, all in the name of freedom. Today, London will do a new accounting. It will open the files and reread them, as have the countries that were previously arrogant and that said that they were distant from the terrorism. The view of some of the countries is that as long as bombs aren't exploding and not a single shot is fired, they are safe from the evil of terrorism…
"In London, they talk of the lack of freedom in the Arab world, of the repression, and of the security tension in the Arab countries… But when you tell them, Stop being so tolerant of the incitement that comes from your country, from your skies, and from your Internet, and when you tell them that anyone who denies my freedom and declares me to be an apostate, [i.e. the Islamists] will, due to this freedom, deny your freedom in the future - [when you tell them this], they turn away. And what happened today? The terror struck London, indiscriminately…
"Those who are fighting in the name of Islam are distorting its image, and those who are defending them in the name of freedom are making the individual the victim of their defense. For the sake of the freedom of all of us, stop the ones who are attacking our freedom." [12]
In a similar vein, columnist Amir Taheri wrote in the London daily Al-Sharq Al-Awsat that suicide bombers were a weapon created by the propaganda against the West, through the Arab media, the Islamic associations, the Islamic schools, and the mosques, all over the world and in London as well: "The real reason for this tragedy is the message that divides humanity into 'believers' and 'infidels,' and arouses hatred among believers towards other religions…
"The London attack is not the work of a small group of people. It is the bitter fruit of a religion that has been hijacked by a minority of extremists, while the majority looks on in concern and amazement. Until we hear the voices of the Muslims condemning attacks of this kind with no words [of qualification] such as 'but' and 'if,' the suicide bombers and the murderers will have an excuse to think that they enjoy the support of all Muslims. The real battle against the enemy of mankind will begin when the 'silent majority' in the Islamic world makes its voice heard against the murderers, and against those who brainwash them, believe them, and fund them." [13]
Catherine:
THEN WHY CRY ABOUT PANTIES ON A HEAD IF CUTTING HEADS OFF IS NOT SINISTER???
Indeed!
Gold star for you any day of the week.
"When will you understand that a moderate muslim is not against you, but not also with you ??"
Posted by Averroes.
That's fine Averroes. But all I ask is that these "moderates" muslims stop being apologists, stop harbouring extremeists in their communities, and step a side so we can eradicate the fascists. And this is exactly why people around here are suspicious of "moderates". Their house needs cleaning and they refuse to do it.
Excuses for Islam (Spouse) is Similar to Understanding Marriage Abuse
We live in a society where many relationships are failing. Abuse is rampant, but we don't know what to do about it. In fact, many people dismiss it as normal because it is something that they grew up with in their home as a child. Do we get into such relationships because we are poor at choosing a compatible partner, or more to the point, do we not know what signs to look for that would indicate that something is wrong or will be soon.
A few years ago a good friend of ours met a nice man who seemed to treat her very well during their courtship. On their honeymoon his personality began to change. It wasn't long before he became verbally and emotionally abusive. What happened? Did he really change that much or did she simply not see the RED FLAGS? As we began discussing her courtship, she began to see many behaviors she had simply dismissed as unimportant. She had justified his temper (he was tired and working long hours). His drinking appeared to be social drinking (although he did drink alone at times). It didn't take long for her to see the initial RED FLAGS she had previously dismissed.
How many people marry based on what the person lets them see, and only after they are married do they see the person for who he or she REALLY is? According to our clinical experience, many people report that their partner "changed" once they got married.
Am I really as bad as my partner is making me feel?
Are you beginning to wonder what is wrong with you? Or have you started asking yourself why your partner treats you the way he/she does? Many people are afraid to admit that they are in an abusive relationship. I don't blame them. We all want to be "in" a relationship so we overlook certain behaviors. After all, it isn't bad all of the time, right?
Instead of dealing with the problems in the relationship, many people turn to unhealthy behaviors. They turn to alcohol, drugs, another partner, or they begin experiencing physical symptoms like fibromyalgia, headaches, ulcers, etc. These are all common ailments that come from high stress relationships. What most people don't realize is that with the right information, they can make necessary changes in their relationship.
With the right information, you can make a good decision about whether your relationship will make it or not. You will learn whether your partner has the skills to succeed in a relationship. After all, we must admit, that some people simply don't know what it takes to make a relationship work.
Shouldn't he be in jail?
DC, I was just thinking the same thing.
What happened to the Christian preacher that was jailed for making a comment about islam?
This comment has more hate to it then the preacher said, and he is in jail.
So what does it take to see the patty wagon show up and pick this guy up?
Gold star for you any day of the week.
Posted by: waterdragon52 at July 13, 2005 11:11 AM
Thanks I take it??
I just see a mordratE as a sissy notice in the begining of this story??
Moderate Islamic leaders though have refused to condemn his statements and their response has infuriated some commentators.
HMM???
WELL BETTER STOP THE CRY OF ANTI SEMITISM AND POINT OUT THE HATE OF ALL NON-MULSUMS!!!!
BECAUSE THE WORLD HAS SHOWN THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT THE JEWS??
LIKE TERRY SHIVIO IT DOES NOT EFFECT THEM??
BETTER TO SHOW THEM THAT IT DOES EFFECT THEM LIKE IN LONDON PROTEST IN THE STREETS MULSUMS PHYCO PEACENICKS CROWD THE STREET AND SHOUT DEATH TO AMERICA AND THE WAR??
WHAT HAVE THEY SAID THIS WAR IS ABOUT??
RELIGION!!
DO WE BELIEVE WHAT THEY SAY?
I DO!
THINGS AINT THAT TOUGH THE ENEMY HAS SAID IF YOU ARE A NON-MULSUM WE WILL KILL YOU WHILE YOU SLEEP WHERE EVER YOU ARE??
THE MULSUMS HAVE YET TO HAVE A CROWD OF MORE THAN 50 TO SAY THIS IS NOT TRUE??
IF WHAT THEY SAY THERE OVER 1,2 BILLION OF THEM AND ONLY 50 SAY THIS IS NOT TRUE TELLS ME TO FIGURE OUT WHO ARE THE MOST DANGROUS AND CAN GET HERE THEN TAKE THEM OUT!!
SEE I AINT THE PERSON WHO WILL SLEEP WITH THAT SNAKE I WOULD KILL IT TO MAKE MY FAMILY SAFE!!!
THE IDEA THAT THESE MONSTERS SUPPORT THE KILLING OF THE IRAQI CHILDREN TODAY SHOWS THERE IS NO HOPE FOR THEM!!
IF WE DON'T START SEEING THE MULSUMS IN THE WEST STAND UP WHAT CHANCE WILL THOSE IN OPRESSED LAND HAVE??
NO I SEE THESE MORADERATS IN THE WEST AS COWARDS AND THEY ARE NO GOOD IN A FIGHT AND I WANT PEOPLE WHO WILL FIGHT WITH ME NOT HAVE TO LISTEN TO THEM WHINE????
SO PC SAYS WE CAN'T KILL THEM ALL BUT THEY HAVE LANDS THEY CAN GO TO MULSUM LANDS THIS WOULD BE GOOD ALL AROUND THEY WANT MULSUM LAWS THERE THEY CAN HAVE THEM!!
MATTER OF FACT THE 2 COUNTRIES WE JUST FREED THEY CAN TAKE WHAT THEY LEARNED HERE IN THE WEST AND HELP THEIR OWN PEOPLE LIVE A BETTER LIFE ND THEY CAN WEAR THEIR SPOOK SUITS TO THEIR HEARTS CONTENT!!!
IF THEY WANT TO CUT EACH OTHERS HEADS OFF FINE BUT THEY WILL NOT BE ALOUD IN THE WEST THEY WILL HAVE TO PICK UP THEIR OWN TRASH!!!
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM AMEN
PS
People always want to see the good in people but sometimes there is just no good there to see??
There are storys we were told when we were Children the story of Lot is a good one!!!
Catherine:
Yes, I was sending you my compliments. A lot of the time, I don't have the time to read your full posts, but they are not tedious cut-and-pastes that some people dismiss them as being. I'm amazed by the different sources you cull information from, and yes, I like the way you call a spade a spade and a whining, crybaby sissy a whining, crybaby sissy.
Rumoret:
Great analogy.
Thanks waterdragon52....