From AP via Fox News:
BAGHDAD, Iraq — A suicide attacker detonated explosives strapped to his body Saturday at a gas station near a Shiite mosque south of Baghdad, triggering a huge explosion in a fuel tanker and killing at least 54 people, police said.Eighty-two people were injured.
Police Capt. Muthanna Khaled Ali said the attack occurred in Musayyib, about 40 miles south of Baghdad.
Police and witnesses said the fuel tanker was moving slowly toward the pumps when an attacker ran to it and detonated his explosives. The station is located in the center of town near a cluster of houses, many of whire, the witnesses said.
Gasoline stations in Iraq typically include a number of small businesses selling tea, soft drinks and snacks and often are crowded with people...
More gasoline for the Sunni-Shi'a explosion. Let the Americans withdraw; let the Shi'a behave as they will behave. Let others enter the fray, with money, men, weapons. Sit back. Watch.
Couldn't agree more Hugh.
Absolutely, let's help the Muslims kill each other. We will only help the Kurds and Christians, the rest can have their 'spectacular jihad' as they pure the one, the true form of Islam.
Hugh, silly me, I just realized why this site fits you so well. It is because all you seem to want to do is sit back and "watch jihad" and provide color commentary. Our country is trying to do what it can to confront this cancerous tumor called Islamic Jihad. Our leaders may not be doing it the way you think it should be done, but at least our government is doing much more than any other. You are eloquent in your posts, but your calls for an American withdrawal make my blood boil. No matter how you spin it, any type of withdrawal will be viewed as a victory for Islamic extremism and will be a disaster for the future of the USA. I know Rebecca agrees with you, but does Robert Spencer? Calling for the USA to withdraw does not, in my opinion, fit with Robert Spencers statement about what we can do about the threat of Jihad - "remain true to our principles of freedom and equality of rights and dignity for all", which is an obvious goal of our efforts in Iraq.
Hardliner,
I would like to ask you a question. If 'our country' is doing all that they can do to get rid of this Islamic Jihad tumor, why are they lying to us? How are we to lead a leader who we know lies? Is it all one grand taquiyya, and we hope to have better taquiyya than Islam?
Hugh may be providing color commentary, I have for months, but others are moving. I am working on a website and have several low cost but very effective ideas for making sure our politicians are not telling lies that THEY believe are true.
Robert, I would like to ask you a question in regards to "remain true to our principles of freedom and equality of rights and dignity for ALL", What does all mean (and not in the context of is is)? Islam must be supreme above all other, including the state. Taquiyya is condoned when Islma is weak. A 'contract' a 'truce' would be worthless. It's with infdels anyway; you can break it instantly for the most insignificant 'violation.' It's worthless. The Quran has passages that clearly state this.
Hardliner, do they (our government) know this? Am I wishing upon a star?
reset
"No matter how you spin it, any type of withdrawal will be viewed as a victory for Islamic extremism and will be a disaster for the future of the USA."
--- from a posting above
"Any type of withdrawal" will be "viewed as a vicotry for Islamic extremism"? I have more faith in the cunning and intelligence of American policymakers. They surely can figure out a thousand ways -- I have offered a mere dozen or so here -- of things to be done, including a complete change in the articulation of what this war is -- it is NOT a "war on terror" but a war of self-defense against Isl...oops, I'll call it "the Jihad" instead.
You don't think cutting jizya-foreign aid to Egypt, the PA/PLO, Jordan and Pakistan (which should be read the riot act for continuing to do the minimum) would have an effect? You don't think that beginning to talk openly about the seizure of Saudi-owned assets (just as German-owned assets were seized during World War II) would have an effect? What about discussing openly with Ethiopia military aid and let hint Washington's worry about Islam's encroachments in East Africa, and worry in particular about Egypt's bullying Ethiopia over diversion of the headwaters of the Nile? You don't think a free Kurdistan would help to divide Islam, by bringing front and center the problem of Arab Muslim domination and even mass-murder of non-Arab Muslms, and might hearten Berbers and others (for if Islam is to be constrained, it will have to be weakened, and its adherents divided, in every possible way). You think it makes more sense to stay in Iraq to bind up the wounds within Islam, rather than let the natural resentments and even hatreds -- especailly now that the Shi'a have become a clear majority in the country -- that could work to our advantage?
What would be terrible is if this absurd misallocation of resources, that is doing such damage to the armed forces, to its equipment, to the quality of new recruits, to the loyalty and quality of the citizen-army, that is costing a fortune that could be put to much better use in energy projects to diminish OPEC revenues which are the key element in the funding of the Jihad, and the damage as well to the willingness of Americans, over a very long period (at least as long as the Cold War with Soviet Russia), to constrain and check Islam at every step. And what does this "democracy" or for that matter "stability" in Iraq do for us? What? How does Mr. Jaafari's willingness to let our soldiers do his fighting, and let us keep paying for things (his hand was out for that "Marshall Plan" a few weeks ago in Washington -- he wanted to call it, in his oily fashion, "a Bush Plan" but even Bush was not picking up on the outrageous idea) -- help us? Isn't this the same Mr. Jaafari who for 40 years has belonged to an Islamic Party, and as I write this is embracing, and being embraced by, the madmen of the Islamic Republic of Iran?
If the American policymakers cannot figure out that they failed to understand both Islam and the nature of Iraq, and in failing to understand the latter, failed to see how Iraq could be used to weaken the former, by this time -- well, then we need people whose learning curve is a bit steeper. Just look at Europe, which has waited a little too long to understand Islam, and is beginning to undrstand it, but not until it already has millions of Muslims, breeding furiously, in its midst -- with no sign of giving up their belief-system that inculcates hatred for Infidels, and teaches the duty of participation, in one way or another, in the Jihad to spread Islam until it covers the globe.
I still cannot see what is wrong with leaving Iraq in the right way -- and there is a right way, a way that through all kinds of words and deeds, will signal a much harder, clever, less wasteful, and much more effective policy -- and that has the added advantage of not being a policy that anyone among the usual haters of America will be able, on the surface, to object to -- after all, we'll be leaving Iraq. But not in the way they think, and not for the reasons they think. Let a few Islamic websites enjoy being triumphant for a few weeks. Then the Sunni-Shi'a clashes will shut them up, as Iran takes one side, and Saudi Arabia and Jordan the other, and the Alawites of Syria won't know what to do.
"remain true to our principles of freedom and equality of rights and dignity for all"
-- from a posting above
Is that some kind of Creed for American Foreign Policy? Do you think that that statement reflects Robert Spencer's notion of the proper function of the American government, or Americans in general? Is that what we are here for, to be a kind of Super-Hero who will always be available, be more or less on tap, to provide aid, to supply "freedom and equality of rights and dignity for all"? Resources are finite. Men, materiel, money, morale are finite. We cannot, and should not wish to, be the suppliers of this, or even the presumptuous judges of what such words would mean, in this or that place in the world.
There is, right now, a mortal menace that threatens the United States and other countries in the Western world, as well as other Infidel lands that are not historically part of that West. We should do what we can to constrain Islam, to divide and demoralize the forces of Islam, to deprive Muslim peoples and polities of major weaponry. And that should be done as cleverly, and with the least reliance on brute force as possible, and the most on propaganda, and on depriving Muslim states of Infidel aid of any kind, and working to diminish the discretionary income that inevitably goes to fund instruments of Jihad, among all the rich Arabs and Muslims.
Otherwise, were this resounding phrase be taken seriously, it would make us, already in so many ways assumed to be a bottomless fund of cash for most of the world, even more the patsies of those who hate us (I don't begrudge unshakeable allies our aid, but I do the shakable ones, and certainly no enemies, properly labelled as such, should get a thing), a bunch of blue-helmeted U.N. troops, bringing "freedom" over here (defined as what, exactly?) and some "dignity for all" over there, and along the way of course, some ideal which, outside the phrase "equality before the law," hardly exists anywhere in nature, and certainly does not exist in our own society, and we might start here before exporting a phony "equality" elsewhere.
Commencement-speech ideals should stay in those commencement-speeches, along with those dumb admonitions by banal speechifiers, telling the graduates, eager to turn their tassels, to "be true to your bliss" and "give something back" and "don't be afraid of challenges" and things on that level of idiocy.
"Our leaders may not be doing it the way you think it should be done, but at least our government is doing much more than any other."
--- from a posting above
Governments are not like elementary-school chldren, to whom one gives a gold star, or perhaps just a silver one, for the student who shows "Most Improvement" or "Tries Hardest." The notion that we should be well satisfied because "at least our government is doing much more than any other" fails to convince. And it fails to convince because if our government were really trying hard, it would long ago have jettisoned that misleading phrase "war on terror" for something that at least attempts to creep up on the truth. If it were trying hard, it might realize that by now leaving Iraq, and using the particular three-vilayet nature of Iraq it could accomplish far better what it should wish to accomplish -- the weakening of Islam, the strengthening of divisions within Islam (both Arab/non-Arab, and Sunni/Shi'a)-- by leaving rather than staying, now that the most important task, getting rid of the regime's major weaponry, has been accomplished, and collateral benefits, chiefly the surrender of the Libyan nuclear program by Khaddafy, have also been achieved.
We still have "the war on terror." We still have no war-footing energy policy, nor any discussion of why it is needed to diminish OPEC oil revenues, even though that might also enlist the support of normally-Democratic environmentalists, happy to see money going to solar, wind, and (less so) nuclear energy.
"Tries Hardest" is not good enough. "Most Improvement" will not do. The whole thing is too important. On the right choices depend our entire civilization. This can't be miffed by people who still don't know what Islam is all about, and are not running scared, as they should be, about the islamization of Europe.
In Carroll's Caucus Race, "all shall have prizes." No. No prizes for "trying hardest." Not good enough.
I am actualy torn on this issue.
1. It would be fine to just leave and let the Islamic wackos kill each other off.
But..
2. I also understand and agree with president bush's vision which is
If something does not change in the islamic world it will only be a matter of time before Islamic terrorists aere on our doorstep in the USA.
The reason Islam is so furious at the west is because Western culture and technology is effecting the muslim world..
think about it as a muslim you see your young kids tempted into a lifestyle of (what muslims consider to be sinful).
Since there isnt any real power over these tempations in Islam the only answer they have against this onslaught is to destroy all of the western influence.
I have had muslims tell me this to my face.
That the Untied states and the west is spewing out a toxic brew of sexual perversion, power, influence and of course money.
I have also witnessed this first hand by muslims cursing jews to my face even after they just admitted that the arabs and jews are brothers...
I was kinda surprised as i thought i knew them.
If your a muslim parent how can you fight the relentless onslaught comming from the western world...
The only answer is a Holy war against what you see as the unislamic culture being taought to your kids...
So we have to change (or try too) anyway the islamic way of thinking...
This is the vision and i agree with it (although i have my doubts of sucess but it is worthwhile an endevour.
Notice how many times zarchowi screams how Islam is incompatible with democracy..
They are scared to death of it because if the people can choose they might not choose to follow the Imans or the Islamic wako clergy -- i use that term loosly...
One more post to prove the point that the terrorists are doing exactly what the Koran dictates
Again i quote from the Koran
Qur’an 9:3 “Allah is not bound by any contract or treaty with non-Muslims, nor is His Apostle.”
Qur’an 97:5 “There is peace until the dawning of the day!”
Qur’an 9:3 “And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the Pilgrimage is that Allah and His Messenger dissolve treaty obligations with the Pagans.”
Tabari VIII:104 “Peace to whoever follows the right guidance! To proceed; Submit yourself, and you shall be safe.’”
Do you understand the muslims ARE FOLLOWING the Koran EXACTLY...
There is to be no peace until the infedels either submitt or DIE!!!
More from the Koran
Qur’an 9:71 “O Prophet, strive hard [fighting] against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be harsh with them. Their abode is Hell, an evil refuge indeed.”
Qur’an 8:59 “The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them.”
Qur’an 4:168 “Those who reject [Islamic] Faith, Allah will not forgive them nor guide them to any path except the way to Hell, to dwell therein forever. And this to Allah is easy.”
Qur’an 4:114 “He who disobeys the Apostle after guidance has been revealed will burn in Hell.”
It is unfair to describe my views on Iraq as suggesting it is "just fine to leave." Nothing is "just fine." Some things make more sense than others. Given how much money, materiel, and American soldiers lives would have to be spent to create this "democracy" and given that such a "democracy" has no proven connection to a lessening of Islamic fervor (and as Infidels, that is what we are interested in), and would not guarantee any lessening of support or interest in Islam (which can only arise from within Islam, not from outside pressure -- and only when a sufficient number of thinking Muslims begin to connect what Islam teaches with the political, economic, social, and intellectual failures of their own societies, failures which are connected to the teachings and atttitudes and atmospherics of Islam itself).
I have repeatedly given a whole list of things that might be done, beginning with a change in how Islam is spoken of, with various degrees of forthrightness or sly allusion, as we proceed to jettison that silly phrase "war on terror" and come to something a bit more truthful and helpful. Declaring, for example, that the hundreds of billions of dollars that would otherwise go into our Iraq venture will now be earmarked (let Bush declare) for "energy projects" that will "not only save the environment" but will help us achieve the same goals we sought in our going to Iraq, by diminishing the money available for Jihadis world-wide." That is a speech I would like to listen to. And at the same time, cut all jizya aid and tell Egypt, Jordan, Pakistan (and we need not put so much money and attention into finding Bin Laden -- he is not that important, he is only one fungible figure, and two-faced Pakistan in any case is hardly performing up to snuff) that they should seek the aid of their even richer Arab brethren, and then publicly give out some figures about Muslim and Arab OPEC oil revenues. Most people have no idea how much they have taken in, without raising a finger, over the past one-third century. Let it be known -- to Infidels, and to poorer Arabs and Muslims alike. And let them go, hat or scimitar in hand, those poor Arabs, to demand a share of the oil loot that was supplied by Allah, you see, to the "best of people" -- the Muslim Arabs. And if the Saudis don't share, or don't give enough, well then -- trouble!
And there are so many other things that I have repeatedly offered up as mere samples of what could be done, if the absurd obstinacy, the silly loyalty, to a policy that, if the enemy is the world-wide Jihad, makes little sense, for it prevents us from exploiting, without having to do a thing, the fissures within Iraq that mirror larger fissures within Islam itself.
A pity to let that chance go by, and to allow oneself to miss a great opportunity, and to squander resources, all because a few people insist on being mesmerized by such hollowly-ringing phrases as "we can't change course" (of course we can, if that "course" turns out to have been the wrong one, or an iceberg has suddenly appeared of which we were previously unaware), or "we can't cut and run." Well, some of those who don't like what I have to say assume that one side has all the rough-tough warriors on it (look at some of the posting monikers chosen), and those who dare to suggest otherwise must be appeasers. This offends. This is ridiculous. Knowledge of what Iraq is like, and what Islam threatens, matters far more.
The striking of tough-guy attitudes as a substitute for thought will not do. Not here, and not anywhere.