Egyptians Won't Hand Over Chemist

Davvero? Well, we shall see about that. Let's stop that jizya-aid to Egypt right now, shall we? No ifs, no ands, no silly buts. Now.

Hugh,

We can never do that, the arabs would starve (despite all that oil money)- those greedy, imperalist, colonialist, capitalist sudjugators would be at it again holding back the developement of the islamic and third world.

How much have we given these clowns (we are even more stupid remember) since Camp David?

JV

HMMMMMM
Que, sera, sera, whatever will be
will be
The future is not for us to see,
Que sera sera

I remember Tripoli
and the bomb over lockerbie

did he mix up the explosives in his tub like a proper batch of homemade gin, or did he take a bath before his flight to wash off the traces so he'd make it through the airport?

either way, you don't leave that kind of ring around the tub from advocating for world peace.

as far as Egypt, cut'em off. decisively, immediately, and completely. put them in the axis of evil with Iran and N Korea and when they bitch give'm a couple of dozen HE suppositories
to treat them for harboring, aiding, and abetting terrorism, ISLAMIC terrorism.

Slow down on condemning Egyptian authorities for a minute. I am no fan of Mubarak, he is a ruthless dictator BUT Mubarak has complained that Britain has SHELTERED criminals escaping from Egypt and other North African nations to Britain.

Here is how the scam works. Jihadi criminal commits a terrible crime in Morocco or Egypt. The crime is punishable by death under the legal codes of those countries. The jihadi criminal goes to Britain and CLAIMS ASYLYUM because if he were returned to his home country he would be subject to the death penalty. Britain has granted asylum to these people, that is why Britain has one of the biggest concentrations of jihadi in Europe.

Remember returning a criminal to Britain ensures that he ESCAPES the death penalty.

So, don't be too quick to condemn, we may not know the whole story. Also, don't get me wrong, I don't have any illusions about Mubarak as a leader.

I'm not condemning Mubarak. He's a crook and a con-man and much else, as is his whole Family-and-Friends operation, but I'm not condemning him. I just don't feel that paying the jizya of $2 billion a year is worth it; I don't feel we are sufficiently "protected" by his regime, which is full-bore anti-American and antisemitic. They aren't living up to their side of that famous bargain, the fictional Pact of Omar. They are pocketing the money and we get nothing in return. Take that jizya back. Spend it on solar, wind, and nuclear energy. Or give it to the Israelis to buy more military equipment with which to help Ethiopia in the coming water-war with Egypt, or the Ibo for the next time they break away from northern Nigeria. Or possibly give it to the Kurds or Berbers to establish their independence from Arabs who have forcibly been arabizing them for centuries. Or put it into the Social Security Fund. Or subsidize Amtrak. Something. Anything, but the jizya paid to Muslim powers.

athena

eggsakly

2 billion for Egypt, 3 billion for the "palestinians",we're throwing money around like we've got money to spare. I would like to see that money spent here.

Athena;
As my 'alias' implies, I'm a Brit and I agree with your assessment 100%.
This law that we have of not deporting anyone back to a country that gives the death penalty is ludicrous.
Lets hope our politicians are realising this now.

Mind you, this could always be a deal that the Brits have instigated with Egypt, i.e.
"Keep stalling us in the eyes of the World whilst you employ 'trusted' interrogation techniques..."

If you know what I mean.

Egypt is one of the countries that can/does use "odd methods" of interrogation that other countries don't. (Egypt doesn't get an ass chewing from the 'international community or human rights organisations' for it either like the US and Israel would if we did the same.) It might be best to drain this idiots brain of information and leave him on a side street in Cairo to be a welfare case for them.

All that Suez money Egypt is rolling in can be put to better purposes taking care of their spawn like this guy.

OT, I am presently reading the book "White Gold". It is about the kidnapping and slavery of over 1 million Europeans by islam. I never heard of this in school. I have read the reviews of the book at Amazon.com and that is the repeated statement by all who reviewed the book. This cover-up for islam has been going on for a long time, it appears.

Athena wrote...if he were returned to his home country he would be subject to the death penalty. Britain has granted asylum to these people, that is why Britain has one of the biggest concentrations of jihadi in Europe...

Do you think England will drop that rule about not returning these Islamists to countries that have the death penalty? Or is that bound by the EU? Such a high and mightly law, doesn't seem so important when you are fighting for your civilization.

These EU countries have a lot of legislating to do and it is not going to be pretty for the Muslims.

The only thing that gives me any shred of comfort is knowing that as this global war heats up, the pace of "wet work" is dramatically increasing. There is a specialty school at Camp Pendleton (MOS 8541) that is exceptionally busy these days.

Carolyn2 above refers to "White Gold" by Gilers Milton, a book that has received repeated mention at JW (google "Jihadwatch" and "Posted by Hugh" and "Giles Milton"). Sometime ago I posted excerpts from a review; I post it again below:

Here is the brief review by Philippa Nuttall, in the Times Literary Supplement (Nov. 26, 2004, p, 33) :

"The horrors of the black slave trade are well documented, but few people are aware that Europeans were also sold to work as slaves for the sultans of North Africa and their entourages. Giles Milton’s reading of unpublished journals and letters led him to uncover the amazing and shocking tale of Thomas Pellow. Stolen from his uncle’s ship in 1715 at the age of eleven, Pellow was not to return home to the Cornish village of Penryn until twenty-three years later.

Between 1609 and 1616, 466 English trading ships were seized and their crews forced into slavery. The corsairs of Barbary also launched hit and run raids around the coast of England. By the end of 1625, the mayor of Plymouth believed that at least a thousand of his townspeople had been kidnapped. The men were most often put to work from dawn to dusk, toiling away under the blistering heat on the Moroccan sultan Mulay Ismail’s new palace – the largest construction project in history.

The sultan was not satisfied with forcing the slaves to work for him. He wished them to share in his religious beliefs, and frequently tried to convert them to Islam through torture. The women prisoners were forvcibly converted and sent to the harem. A particularly widespread form of torture was bastinadoing, wherebv the victim is hung upside down so that his neck and shoulders rest on the ground. His ankles are then bound and he is whipped forty or fifty times on the soles of his feet. Pellow initially put up a strong fight. But afger one particularly fearsome bastinado, he renounced God in favour of Muhammad. His intelligence and strength had already caused the sultan to single him out as a potential palace retainer; his conversion eased his appointment as guardian of the imperial harem.

As time passed, though never losing the desire to return to his homeland, Pellow began to have more in common with his captors than with his countrymen. He became fluent in Arabic, was made to take a wife – with whom he had a daughter – and was regularly sent into battle. He even took part in slave-gathering expeditions across the Dark Continent. Afgter several failed attempts, he managed to flee his captors and returned to Devon.

The British government – and its European neighbours – proved singularly unable to coordinate and sustain an effort to free the slaves. It was not until 1816 that Britain finally declared all-out war on the trade and sent a fleet, captained by a distant relative of Pellow, to Algiers. The victory of Sir Edward Pellow’s fleet led to the release of 1,642 slaves in Algiers alone, and persuaded the rulers of Tunis, Tripoli and various Moroccan cities that the era of the white slave was over.”

Of course, the enslavement of blacks and whites was justified because both the black Africans, and all the Europeans who were kidnapped over many centuries, both belonged to the Bilad al-kufr and were, in fact, Infidels. J. Willis, like Hogedorn a student of the Arab slave trade, notes in “Jihad and the Ideology of Enslavement,” in Slaves and Slavery in Muslim Africa, pp. 16-26, the attitude of the Arab slavers:

… as the opposition of Islam to kufr erupted from every corner of malice and
mistrust, the lands of the enslavable barbarian became the favorite hunting ground
for the “people of reason and faith” [that is, Muslims] – the parallels between slave and infidel began to fuse in the heat of jihad. Hence whether by capture or sale, it was as slave and not citizen that the kafir was destined to enter the Muslim domain. And since the condition of captives flowed from the status of their territories, the choice between freedom and servility came to rests on a single proof: the religion of a land is the religion of its amir (ruler); if he be Muslim, the land is a land of Islam (dar al-Islam); if he be pagan, the land is a land of unbelief (dar al-kufr). Appended to this principle was the kindred notion that the religion of a land is the religion of its majority; if it be Muslim the land is a land of Islam; if it be paga, the land is a land of kufr, and its inhabitants can be reckoned within the categories of enslavement underl Muslim law. Again, as slavery became a simile for infidelity, so too did freedmom remain the signal feature of Islam….

And further:

….in all the legal texts: “make jihad against the infidels, kill their men, make captive their women and children, seize their wealth….” Thus, encumbrance was no sanctuary from the servile condition; with the elimination of the men, the net of enslavement slipped over the remnants of the kafir camp, round the women and children who became spoil in the path of Allah. The ideology of enslavement in Islam then, becomes that ideology which seeks to repair the losses of jihad. Women and children are the diya [the compensation, fixed by custom and law], the jizya – the reparation and plunder for lives pledged in jihad. Hence again, spoil [ghanima] becomes a kind of compensation…

Hugh and Carolyn2,

The book, "Skeletons on the Zahara: A True Story of Survival," by Dean King documents the survival of an American crew who became shipwrecked off the coast of northwest Africa in 1815. Being enslaved was part of their experience.

Here is the amazon link if either of you are interested:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0316835145/104-2963688-3517566?v=glance

Another famous Christian slave was Cervantes, who survived the Battle of Lepanto but was later captured, and taken to Algiers where he lived for five years, the slave of Benedikli Hasan Pasha. Although two articles (one by Harvey Cox in the Harvard Divinity Magazine, the second a piece in The New Duranty Times by Edward Rothstein) have recently been devoted to teasing out a nonexistent paean of praise to the supposed Maria-Rosa-Menocal wonders of Islamic Spain that Cervantes supposedly alludes to in Don Quixote, his own remarks about that period of enslavement to a Muslim master in a Muslim state belie that interpretation. And besides, the whole business of the "author" of Don Quixote beginning his tale by claiming to have found a manuscript by an Arab, one Sidi Hamete Benengeli, is made much of by Rothstein, but in fact is nothing more than a literary device -- the Manusript Found in a Bottle, or in a Bookstore, and should not have any greater multicultural significance teased out of it than exists.

The shipwrecked and enslaved crew of the Zahara, which has been kindly referred to above for the edification of all of us, was I think one of a number of such tales -- they were like those "Indian Captivities" that used to be so popular in American literature. And they were hair-raising (like those captivities, but in a different way) and true. They need to be reprinted, if they haven';t already been.

Presently I am reading Milton's White Gold and I have ordered my copy ofSkeleton's Across the Zahara..

Thank you Hugh. I had forgotten that Cervantes had been a slave. As in all things, the learning curve will be much enhanced if we continue to make the facts about Islam and Muslims relevant to our target Western audience. For the all-important question, "How does this affect me?" must be answered before many will be able to get their minds around this situation.

Much of "Don Quixote" is satire, and DQ is, in part, funny because he's not in touch with reality. For example, he chooses a broken-down nag as his knightly steed; and he mistakes whores as ladies whose honor he needs to defend. Therefore, even if Cervantes praised Islam in some way, there might be an underlying message that Cox and Rothstein have missed out on.

The Arab manuscript may be more than a literary device because there are many levels in the book. However, one level NOT there is praise of Islam. The vocabulary used in the original Spanish might provide a clue in that direction.

The Broadway musical "The Man of la Mancha" focuses on only one aspect of the multi-leveled novel: the spiritual rewards of idealism and the importance of trying to achieve the unattainable ("to right the unrightable wrong").

I can't stop myself from saying this: To right the unrightable wrong might refer to the futility of reforming Islam.

Much of "Don Quixote" is satire, and DQ is, in part, funny because he's not in touch with reality. For example, he chooses a broken-down nag as his knightly steed; and he mistakes whores as ladies whose honor he needs to defend. Therefore, even if Cervantes praised Islam in some way, there might be an underlying message that Cox and Rothstein have missed out on.

The Arab manuscript may be more than a literary device because there are many levels in the book. However, one level NOT there is praise of Islam. The vocabulary used in the original Spanish might provide a clue in that direction.

The Broadway musical "The Man of la Mancha" focuses on only one aspect of the multi-leveled novel: the spiritual rewards of idealism and the importance of trying to achieve the unattainable ("to right the unrightable wrong").

I can't stop myself from saying this: To right the unrightable wrong might refer to the futility of reforming Islam.

Carolyn2,

It may have escaped yours (and many other J/DWers) notice that the slave trade didn't end with the 'oppression' of the muslim pirates by those filthy western colonialist and imperalist powers.

My family are originally from Montenegro. When I was young (circa 13 in the early 80s) my family visited an elderly looking lady in Albania (I was too young to know at the time who she was in relation to me and not told).

In many heated debates with family and friends opposed Milosevic during the civil war I (chiefly, because I thought that the war would increase the power of the ummat and not dimmish it, many Christians just couldn't see this though). During one such debate my father informed me of what happened to my grandmother's sister.

During the secound world war, when she was about fifteen, she was kidnapped by an armed Albanian gangs (the occupation of Yugoslavia by the axis gave the Albanians more territory and virtual carte blanche in what they wanted with the infidel populations) and taken into Albania, where she wasn't heard from for a number of years. I was an Albanian Catholic who revealed her location to her former village and the information passed to my grandmother who had moved villages due to marriage.

After her kidnap, she was 'married' to an Albanian for a few years rearing him several children (he had an Albanian wife as well), then sold, opps sorry 'married' to another Albanian, rearing yet more children untill she had been 'married' five times rearing over a dozen children (all for the ummah of course, which better way to destroy the Christians).

She died a few years after our visit, not taking up the offer to be returned to her people and her country (I didn't know if she had been brainwashed, but my grandmother described her as a shell of a person, comparing her to livestock / cattle). Despite her being much older, my grandmother outlived her by over ten years.

The date of her ordeal - 1943. (Stick that in your pipe and smoke it, Mr. Michael Moore [-Stupid White Men, on black slavery being no more than a 'few' generations ago, etc] and I hope you either choke to death on it or at least get terminal cancer.)

She wasn't the only one to be treated in this fashion or worse.

Only then did I truly understand why hatred towards the muslims overcame a more rational and balanced view to the muslim problem in the Balkans (or perhaps many other places as well).

Only when they start doing this in the west, will the people (not the gov. or 'chattering' PC classes, I've practically given hope hope on them) of the west truely understand the nature of islam (Keighley, WestYorkshire, may be the beginning of this already).

JV

Albanians run much of the sex trade in East London (and probably elsewhere) so the younger generation seem to be keeping up with their grandfathers.

An amazing story, jv. There is so much that we in the US have never heard.

Albania used to be 60% Christian; now it is 40%. The relative numbers are like those in all states with significant Muslim and non-Muslim populations: the former steadily rise, the latter go down. Think of Lebanon, once 60% Christian, now less than 40%. Think of Pakistan (formerly West Pakistan), 15%-20% Hindu at independence, now 1.5% Hindu, or Bangladesh (formerly East Pakistan), 35% non-Muslim at independence, now 8%. The mechanism by which this is achieved is partly overbreeding by Muslims, partly the persecution of non-Muslims that drives so many into exile, and partly the miserable conditions (and higher mortality that may result) inflicted on non-Muslims.