Jihad Watch Board Vice President Hugh Fitzgerald proposes a means to evaluate the religious hatred law that yesterday passed in the British House of Commons:
A simple test needs to be performed. Someone should compile relevant passages from Qur'an, Hadith, and Sira -- the ones that describe non-Muslims being killed (as the Banu Qurayza, or the Jewish tribe in the Khaybar oasis), as well as Muhammad's least attractive deeds, such as his evident pleasure when someone assassinated, to curry favor with him, the mocking Asma bint Marwan, or his sexual intercourse with nine-year-old bride Aisha, or quite a few other things that one can find proudly set out in Sira and Hadith, or in the biographies, such as that by Sir Wiliam Muir, or Tor Andrae, or Arthur Jeffery, not to mention those by worshipful Muslims.These passages then should be read aloud in the House of Lords. One should then inquire if the reading aloud, or other distribution of these passages, together with appropriate commentary, such as "This is what Islam teaches" or "Islam commands that Muslims bear implacable hatred toward non-Muslims" or some such, and then ask representatives of the British government if these passages would be considered actionable under the proposed new legislation.
Ask if a rabbi, or a minister, or a former Muslim, who simply passed around the passages, without any commentary, would be prosecuted under the new law.
Then ask what would happen if a Muslim, an imam in a khutba, were to recite, or refer to, any of these passages. Would he be prosecuted under the new law?
One wishes to know, in advance, before such a law is passed. But of course we know already: Home Office Minister Paul Goggins has “reiterated that what the bill would do is criminalise incitement to religious hatred against individuals."
So it would be licit to quote Qur'an 9:29 about "smiting the Unbeliever" as long as no particular individual is meant, and one could tell one's followers that the tree in that Hadith told Muslims to come and kill the Jews hiding behind it, and one could urge Muslims not to take friends "among the Jews and Christians, who are friends only to each other" (Qur’an 5:51) and in general, to hate the Christians and Jews (but let them live), but to kill right off the bat any other group (Hindus and Sikhs).
Just as long as the Muslims do not refer specifically to nice Mr. Rosenbaum the grocer who lives at 88 Laburnum Lane, or those uppity college boys, the twins Vijay and Vikram who are proudly Hindu, or Mrs. Singh whose husband is on the police force and just last week dared to arrest one of the brothers -- just as long as no "individuals" have hate directed at them, and the hate is directed at Jews, Christians, Hindus, Sikhs, and the like, it's okay. Got that?But if anyone should quote the same verses by way of suggesting that Islam is a religion of hate, that would be hateful, very hateful. And not to be allowed.
What if instead of the odious Sir Bob Geldof, there were someone cleverly genuine, genuinely clever -- Rowan Atkinson, or Stephen Frear, let's say, who would organize a Free Speech Aid Comedy-In, right in the Albert Hall, or some other welcoming place. And it would have Steve Martin and Billy Crystal and John Stewart and Jay Leno and Goldie Hawn and Lily Tomlin and Jerry Seinfeld, and another few dozen, on stage, making jokes all about Free Speech, and what happens when first this person says something, and then someone else recites the same thing, but in a different tone, with different facial expressions, and then, all over the hall, and easily picked up by the television cameras that will beam this show all over the non-Muslim world, there will be huge blow-ups of Buster Keaton, and Charlie Chaplin, and the Marx Brothers, and Laurel (Stanlio) and Hardy (Olio) and Toto, and Alberto Sordi, and Peter Sellers and the rest of the Goon Show, and ditto with the cast of Alto Gradimento, and Fernandel, and Gracie Allen and George Burns, and Max Linder and Jackie Gleason and Art Carney and -- well, you can each contribute another few names.
And in a parody of the pretentious Live Aid Concerts (where all the billionaire celebrities would have to do is simply shut up, take out their own checkbooks, and write checks amounting to 5% of their total wealth, and they would raise far more than their concerts, and it would be far more fitting for these rich businessmen still parading as rebels and outlaws and wild in the street, when they are the spoiled children of the West -- oh, the same goes for Sir Bob Geldof, who is not in want of much these days), these comedians would make fun of the "Hate Law" legislation, by reading out selected passages from Qur'an, Hadith, and Sira, and then comparing them with well-known passages in Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, Hindu and Sikh sacred texts -- and the differences would startle. And then they might take terms reciting still more passages, or trying in mock-puzzlement to figure out what a passage like Qur'an 9:29 could possibly mean, about fighting the Unbelievers until they “feel themselves subdued,” and what kind of deconstruction would lead us to understand that such a text required the application of post-colonial discourse with just a dash of the male gaze thrown in.
Mock them, mock them again and again. Laugh them out of Parliament, out of court, out of civilized society, these intolerable and sinister primitives with their monstrous beliefs.
One should also "test" the Bible as well. Please read the following and tell me if this sounds civil:
"Take your son, your only son – yes, Isaac, whom you love so much – and go to the land of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains, which I will point out to you." (Genesis 22:1-18)
"Let them have your daughters, for we didn't find enough wives for them when we destroyed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.'" So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance. Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them. So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families, and they returned to their own homes." (Judges 21:10-24 NLT)
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
Popinjay!
How are you doing, you slimy Islamist bigot masquerading as a Western moral relativist?
Were you celebrating last Thursday?
I expect you were.
Now, the answer to your question is that four British Muslims born and raised in a prosperous secular liberal democracy just slaughtered 70 infidels in London on the inspiration of your holy book.
Thats your answer, hald-witted oleaginous idiot ;-)
Jesus said "Put up your sword. All who take the sword die by the sword"
Matthew 26:52
And Islam lives by it's Verses of the Sword. So proud of the reputation for violence that they name their scripture for their weapon.
And Jesus said again.
" I am the resurrection and I am life. If a man believe in me, though he die, yet shall he live. And whoever lives and believes in me shall never die. John 11:25
I have nothing more to say to you, gloating ghoulish troll. Go hence from this place and ponder.
King
The Old Testament has many inserts that seem barbaric today. That's why there is the New Testament. The difference between the Bible and the Qu'ran is Christians know better and have evolved; we realize stealing women and so on is well, wrong. Muslims seem to take the Qu'ran word for word, literally and that is ignorant.
Times have changed it's now 2005!
KT has been a spaz and irritant on this site, but he makes a valid point. This law is stupid.
Christians accept that these passages from the Bible are flawed and have no validity in modern society.
Muslims believe the vile commands of the Quran are god's commands to be fully executed today in modern society. World of difference.
I still find it hard to believe that England is actually considering implementing this absurd law, but then again, what do you expect from ignorant dhimmis.
kingtwit;
raised a christian, i was only familiar with one of those quotes. probably because, as a christian of the 20th and 21st centuries, i understand the bible was written by men of another time, with contemporary sensitivities. the non-muslim religious world has matured to the point where we understand the bible's verses in a historical context now and take from it the UNDERLYING values and messages and do not mindlessly and slavishly take it verbatim. except maybe for the fundamentalists, heck, everyone has their overwound fanatics, it's just that christian fundamentalists don't go around blowing up people or sawing off their heads.
after all, God gave me a brain, free will, and intellect, who am i to ignore a gift from God.
now THAT would be heretical.
KT,
I'm an atheist first of all. However your argument lacks consideration of the doctrine of dispensations which teaches that some laws and practices were for certain peoples or time periods only. A common teaching widely taught and believed by Christian across the globe. Your ignorance of it although regretable, is understandable.
For your edification:
Dispensation
(Gr. oikonomia, "management," "economy"). (1.) The method or scheme according to
which God carries out his purposes towards men is called a dispensation. There
are usually reckoned three dispensations, the Patriarchal, the Mosaic or
Jewish, and the Christian. (See COVENANT , Administration of.) These
were so many stages in God's unfolding of his purpose of grace toward men. The
word is not found with this meaning in Scripture.
f.g.
King of inTolerance
You are certainly not one who can give us a balance view of anything. You have been polluted by Mohammadanism which has raped you of your ability to reason or comprehend and was replaced with, malignant narcissism.
There is a big difference between sounding civil, and bonehead Muslims murdering infidel noncombatants because the Qur’an says so! You can test the Bible all you want, but the fact remains nowhere am I told to kill you or any other person I perceive as an unbeliever.
Unlike the Qur’an, which informs the Muslim, that I could be their free ticket to “heaven”.
A Christian says: I will die for what I believe in.
A Muslim says: You will die for what I believe in = malignant narcissism.
A jewish theolgian could probably answer this.
Weren't the 10 commandments provided to replace all previous laws and traditions?
It’s a great idea. Perform comedy concerts instead of live aid rock shows. There is an untapped goldmine of comedy material just waiting to be extracted from the koran.
KingOfTalkingCr@p, you have got some balls coming on here again. Where is your dignity small boy? You have been shown for the provocateur you are. Now be off with you.
KT: Christianity is EEEVVVIILLL.
KT: islam is goooood!
islam just blew up a lot of British people you jerk.
Cross:
Ali Sina is certainly handy with the scathingly sarcastic humour when it comes to Islam.
You must remember that in Christianity, we have a humane founder - Jesus who killed no one, raped no one, robbed no one. When dying on the cross, he said, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do".
Whatever may have been said by others in the Old Testament, Jesus remains, for Christians the central figure. His words carried more weight.
In Islam, the founder Prophet Mohammed killed, robbed and raped. Thus this makes Islam more prone to violence and harder to reform.
Ha ha ha! How easy it is to provoke the "peaceful" simply by pointing out the obvious and glaring double standard they try to weasle out of every time its brought up!
Zilcho: "you slimy Islamist bigot masquerading as a Western moral relativist"
King: You equally strange, colloquial, psychotic hate monger who knows nothing of morals, balance or Islam. How did I do? I think I got it all...
Granny Carwax: "I have nothing more to say to you, gloating ghoulish troll. Go hence from this place and ponder."
King: A nice Christian thing to say with someone with whom you disagree. I shall also instruct you to find and ponder over equally inspiring verses in the Koran. I assume you own a Koran since you know so much about Islam.
Laurel: "Muslims seem to take the Qu'ran word for word, literally and that is ignorant."
King: I expect that you think Jews are equally ignorant since they use the Old Testament? In fact, fundamentalists exists on all religions and it is ignorant of you to forget this in your post.
Bar: "You are certainly not one who can give us a balance view of anything. You have been polluted by Mohammadanism which has raped you of your ability to reason or comprehend and was replaced with, malignant narcissism."
King: OOofa - you are further down the hate totem than most of the others. You would not know a balanced view if it plucked one of your nose hairs.
TooBad: "KingOfTalkingCr@p, you have got some balls coming on here again. Where is your dignity small boy? You have been shown for the provocateur you are. Now be off with you."
King: Last time I checked, I live in a free country with free speech laws so i am allowed to come on and off of this website whenever I damn well please. To you I say "TooBad". As for dignity, I have more than you will every know since I live a mentally liberal, open, diverse life. You are equally invited to exercise your free speech and say whatever you want, provided that you may hear back from someone like me who thinks you are an ass and will tell you so. If you cannot handle that, I suggest that you slowly back aweay from your keyboard and suckle a teat.
Carolyn2: "islam just blew up a lot of British people you jerk."
King: Correction: 4 British citizens blew up a lot of people, you hypocrite. I am sure Jesus would be proud of your name calling, too.
More damning quotes, this time from the New Testament. Oh, how will the Chrisitans weasle their way out of this one? Surely those who interpret these passages radically are dangerous...
Matthew 10:21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels [Jesus tells us what he has planned for those that he dislikes. They will be cast into an "everlasting fire."]
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
And sor forth and so on.
Morally consistant = intellectual honesty. Get some.
KingOfTalkingCr@p, if you had any dignity you would have stopped posting on here when you were rumbled for what you are, an intellectual tortoise aswell as a hypocrite at the very least. You are of course entitled to post your opinions but why you would continue to post your glib opinions on here reaffirms that you are indeed just a provocateur.
KT said:
More damning quotes, this time from the New Testament. Oh, how will the Chrisitans weasle their way out of this one? Surely those who interpret these passages radically are dangerous...
Well a simple contextual reading of these passages will weasle Christians out rather nicely. And just for kicks...anyone out there concerned about Christian terrorists interpreting these passages radically? In checking the news, I could find no examples of it happening...hmmm...
Matthew 10:21
This is prophetic text, not a command. Check context please.
Matthew 25:41
Please note that GOD (Jesus) is the one doing the casting and that in no way are Christians encouraged to assist in the process. cf "Judge not lest ye be judged"
John 3:36
See above. Nothing really here that commands Christians to execute God's wrath.
Romans 1:32
In essence St. Paul is merely laying out (if you continue reading) that we ALL deserve death for our sins. Keep reading...because in the very next verse you find this:
"You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. Now we know that God's judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God's judgment? Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?"
Hmmm...do not pass judgement....hmmm as opposed to "slay the infidel"
Hebrews 9:22
This is theology...St. Paul (assume his authorship) is laying out the foundation for a Judaic understanding of Christ's saving sacrifice...HIS blood saves us...not the blood of slain infidels.
When you get down to it, KT...you are hard pressed to call Muhammed the Prince of Peace. The teachings of Christ are utterly different from those of Muhammed. One need only look to list of Christian saints and the means by which they received their crowns of martyrdom. Compare and contrast.
TooBad - You've repeated what you've already said and what I've already torn to pieces. I suppose we now know who has dignity - you felt the need to repeat youself after being dressed down.
As for being a "provocateur" why do you seem to keep coming up in the net? Are you that insecure? Do you feel that much need to be heard, even if you have nothing to say other than hackneyed, tired things? Read the Bible quotes, share your thoughts or shut up. Your freedom of choice!
KinOfTalkingCr@p, torn to pieces to you maybe but to me, your glib responses are just the rants of a pseudo pub philosopher. You were shown up for the hypocrite that you are and your latest offering of pub scholarly insight is taken as such. But go ahead, keep posting.
Irenaios: "anyone out there concerned about Christian terrorists interpreting these passages radically? In checking the news, I could find no examples of it happening...hmmm..."
King: Well, let us fade back to the not too distant past to when Christians terrorized the freed African slaves in the Southern US by burning crosses. Let us recall the Christian settlers pillaging the New World almost to the point of wiping out the native populations. Let us remember how Christians rode rough shot over Europe during the Crusades. Let us examine the present day as "Christians" murder doctors who perform legal abortions "In the name of God." The glaring list goes on and on and so does the double standard.
Irenaios: "The teachings of Christ are utterly different from those of Muhammed."
King: That's why they're two distinctly different religions and why you're free to not be a Muslim. Or Jew. Or Hindu. Or Sikh. Equally, those who chose to interpret violent passages in both the Koran and the Bible are guilty of religious perversion. That's been part of my platform. Just because Christianity is not under seige by radicals at this point in time does not cleanse it of its violent and bloody past.
TooBad: "But go ahead, keep posting."
King: Gee, thanks for the invite. I have grown rather tired of you and your vacuousness. Like several others, your ad hominem style says everything I need to know. Now about that net you keep coming up in....
KingOfTalkingCr@p (the hypocrite) glibly keeps throwing out the "oh but christianity has a violent past" which has been acknowledged numerous times. Why do you repeat yourself hypocrite ? And by the way, a muslim is not free to not be a muslim so not only are you a hypocrite, you are an ignorant.
*sigh* I have too much time on my hands today.
King: Correction: 4 British citizens blew up a lot of people, you hypocrite. I am sure Jesus would be proud of your name calling, too.
I am sure Jesus would not approve of a lot I do and say, but in the end it will be Him and not you, to judge my heart.
At least I don't defend a murderous belief system and condemn His Church.
Popinjay!
You did fine.
Now, you have more or less admitted that you are a Muslim, so why do you pretend not to be one? Because you are a lying ghoul, that is what you are, and we make sport with slavering Islamist bigots in sappy leftist clothes like you ;-)
Yes, I know everything about Islam, enough to know you were jumping up and down with glee at the 70 infidels slaughtered in London last week in the name of your Koran and nasty, violent, hate filled and fascistic creed.
Allahu-Akbar!
:-)
Well, let us fade back to the not too distant past to when Christians terrorized the freed African slaves in the Southern US by burning crosses
Indeed...ugly stuff, but stuff that has been pretty much done away with. Rather uncomparabel to what is happening today...if in nothing else: scale.
Let us remember how Christians rode rough shot over Europe during the Crusades
Don't foprget the 4th in which the plundered fellow christians in Constantinople...which tends to convince me this had a lot less to do with religion than...well...plunder. But really...you wanna go back a thousand years to find christian atrocities????
Let us examine the present day as "Christians" murder doctors who perform legal abortions "In the name of God."
Well okay at least we are in the present. If you can name 5 instances of murdered abortion doctors, I will not say another word. Not even to ask you to show me that such things are prescribed in any way shape or form by any authority in Christianity...as opposed to being something done by an INDIVIDUAL.
The glaring list goes on and on
Well no it doesn't really.
Just because Christianity is not under seige by radicals at this point in time does not cleanse it of its violent and bloody past.
Well I appreciate that...really I do. And I really hope that more liberal heads can prevail in Islam...unfortunately in the current situation it seems liberal heads are liable to be lopped off. But I would also offer that I think Islam has an endemic problem with violence as prescribed by the Quaran. In the end, it takes some pretty amazing hermeneutical tricks to get away from many prescriptions for the subjugation or death of unbelievers in the Quaran.
Compare and contrast how Muhammed and Jesus both lived and ended their lives and you will see the beatign heart of these faiths.
Jesus was a popular prophet who preached peace, NEVER took up the sword, commanded that we love our enemies, ended up being rejected by his own, and then was killed by the powers that be like a common criminal.
Muhammed occassionally preached peace (read: subjugation), often took up the sword, often commanded and helped to have his enemies killed, was lauded by his own, and died a man with many wives and a virtual emperor after having seized vast amounts of land in the Arabia pennisula via war.
People will always do ugly things...but I again offer that I believe Islam has an endemic problem. I hope you are able to solve it...because few people in the west are able to turn the cheek as Christ commanded and it will only get uglier and uglier.
This all seems true enough. But I don't think all this focus on holding people's feet over the flames for the literal content of their holy text is the answer. As pointed out earlier, there are lots of examples of this in other religions, yet those religions rose above taking that as a literal instruction to kill today.
Instead of binding Muslims more tightly to the literal violence of their text, we need to help guide them away from that, to promote oral traditions of reinterpretation. But we can't do the reinterpreting for them. That is work they need to do.
Don't see them doing it. That troubles me more.
Folks - don't feed the troll. KT is using a not-so-skillful kitman strategy to get rise. Changing the subject, diverting attention, and putting the onus on the victims is always his (her) tactic.
The difference between the Bible and the Koran is that Christians and Jews don't take literally "an eye for an eye" or "smite thy neighbor"and the like, but Muslims do take literally those passages that mandate such practices against Muslims and non-Muslims alike...and they declare that they are doing just that!
Dudes. Please read some history. You cannot downplay the fact that Christianity has a very bloody past (and no not including crusades which i dont have a problem with). But I essentially agree with your point that western society has evolved from the dogma and does not take it literally.
However, there was a great struggle within Islam to rationalize and symbolify the belief system and the Qur'an. The Mut'azilites were progenitors of this legacy which was soon rooted out and muslim society has since succumbed to non-secular forces. This struggle is documented in Ibn Warraq's monumental work - Why I Am Not a Muslim, which Ive read.
Oh Fuck that reminds me! Ibn Warraq is lecturing at my university this month and Im away for summers!! The topic is Koranic criticism...damn this fuckshit. I guess they relegated this event to the summers to prevent widespread awareness of the Qur'an's true teachings.
Ah well enough ranting for a night
Namaste and Shalom (Sanskrit and Hebrew)
Aum, Shantih Shantih Shantih
King of inTolerance
Because I have the ability to discriminate doesn’t put me lower on the hate totem pole. Albeit I do believe it is good to hate that which is evil.
I don’t hate Islam because they follow the prophet who never prophesied.
I don’t hate Islam because they worship a false god.
I don’t hate Islam because they follow ancient pagan rituals.
I don’t hate Islam because it claims my living God and their dead god are one and the same.
I don’t hate 3rd world Muslims because they believe they are superior to all others.
I don’t hate Muslims because they pray five times a day facing Mecca on a dirty rug.
I don’t hate Muslims because they shave their hind parts.
I do hate Islam because it is morally perverse.
I do hate Islam because of its inherent anti-Semitism.
I do hate Islam because they want only the complete destruction of Israel.
I do hate Islam because they cowardly murder noncombatant Israelis.
I do hate Muslims because they cowardly bomb noncombatants and claim its justified by their prophet who hallucinated, oops, I mean never prophesied.
I do hate Muslims because they now pretend to want a two state solution in mythical “Palestine”, yet they cannot find their way to Jordan! Although that shouldn’t surprise me, ancient “Palestine” wasn’t created, I mean found until 1967.
A Christian says: I will die for what I believe in, and is promptly killed by Muslims, for this the Christian is promised paradise.
A Muslim says: You will die for what I believe in, and then he promptly kills the closest infidels and himself, for this the Muslim is promised paradise.
Which one sounds morally perverse to you?
Christians have committed atrocities in spite of what the Bible teaches.
Muslims commit atrocities because of what the Qur’an and Hadith teaches.
Oh and King of inTolerance, you and me are a guest at this site, we have no “right” to post here, it is a privilege bestowed upon us by Mr Spencer. It can be revoked anytime his infidel heart so desirers!
Dudes. Please read some history. You cannot downplay the fact that Christianity has a very bloody past (and no not including crusades which i dont have a problem with).
Dude, for myself, I have not denied a bloody past in Christianity (Did someone else do this?). Humanity has a bloody past...religion or not (see Atheists in Soviet Russia).
The point is, contrary to what AbbaGav said, you do not need to utilize some modern reinterpretation in order to FAIL TO interpret Jesus giving "instruction to kill today."
I mean...if those verses TK came up with are the best he can do...well...count me underwhelmed.
But you certainly must do so with the Quaran. As we have already said, it is a different religion so why ought we to be surprised if it teaches things that are out of tune with Christianity? This is a serious point...this notion that all religions ultimately teach the same morality is nonsense.
epg said:
The difference between the Bible and the Koran is that Christians and Jews don't take literally "an eye for an eye" or "smite thy neighbor"
Well Christians don't take this literally because they take literally what Jesus told them about this verse.
I'd argue that anyone claiming that Jesus and Muhammed essentially taught the same morality have read neither the Quaran nor the NT.
All that being said...I do hope and pray to see a liberal Islam prevail and as AbbaGav says: doesn't look like it is going to happen anytime soon.
Irenaios: "If you can name 5 instances of murdered abortion doctors, I will not say another word."
King offers: I appreciate the time and sincerity you took to answer me above, however, I could not allow this challenge to go unanswered. Christianity is perfectly capable of generating its share of radical lunatics who run amok leaving death in their paths.
#1 http://www.cnn.com/US/9802/10/clinic.bombing.folo/index.html
#2
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/aug2001/abor-a20.shtml
#3
http://archive.salon.com/news/feature/1999/04/17/abortion/
#4 (a two-fer special - the perpetrator gets the death penalty in this one)
http://www.fadp.org/news/TampaBayOnline-20030903(2).htm
#5
http://www.guardian.co.uk/bush/story/0,7369,465575,00.html
Bonuses
http://www.adl.org/poisoning_web/anti_abortion.asp
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=411
Great column, Hugh. As always.
Hugh-
Apt. I want to go to that concert!
(With a mock arrow through my head and huge papier mache faux toilet at the front door into which anyone 'donating' a used Koran gets in half-price.)
King Tut Tut-
I like the Sermon on the Mount.
The Koran I find to be a congealed mass of vengeful vendetta.
I like Micah.
I don't like Mohammad.
The saying: "And greatest of these is love" from the Old Testament is its core.
The core of Koran is: "Submit or be enslaved! Submit or be killed!"
As we see in Islamic action in the world today.
Name one profound thing that Mohammad (pb&j) ever said that wasn't plagiarized from Ecclesiates or Proverbs or the Songs of Solomon or Jesus' parables or Revelation?
(Other than perhaps the one sura that was lost ...by being "eaten by a domestic animal", since Mohammad kept the saying under his bed. That potentially brilliant bit of originality became unavailable to the compilers of the Koran, but made some goat (or camel?) very happy. -As mentioned by Ibn-Mayah in the "Kitabu'l Sunan".)
I have a feeling it read something like:
"Do not hide your wisdom under your bed, for the mouth of hungry ignorance is always ready to consume our fragile gains."
(Or maybe it was just another "assassinate that annoying lady poet who mocks me" post-it note.)
KingOfTalkingCr@p (a hypocrite)tries to play the moral equivalence card. From his own sources "Over the last 20 years, anti-abortion terrorists have been responsible for six murders and 15 attempted murders (see Lake of Fire), according to the National Abortion Federation." That's right folks, in 20 years the dinga-ling anti-abortion brigade (and keep in mind that you don't have to be a christian to be pro-life) have killed 6 people.
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=411 Amatuers by any standards of efficiency but does not even come close to the brave mujahadin warriors of islam.
Admit it KingOfTalkingCr@p(a hypocrite) you have your own not so little prejudices that become more prominent the more you post.
You must remember that in Christianity, we have a humane founder - Jesus who killed no one, raped no one, robbed no one. When dying on the cross, he said, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do".
.
In Islam, the founder Prophet Mohammed killed, robbed and raped. Thus this makes Islam more prone to violence and harder to reform.
Posted by: cassowary at July 13, 2005 12:13 PM
After reading this by cassowary I compare what happened at the end of Mohammad's life...
.."When Allah's apostle became seriously sick, he started covering his face with a woolen sheet. When he felt short of breath, he removed it and said, "That is so! Allah's curse be on Jews and Christians."" Bukhari
"I heard the Prophet while he was lying on his back say, "O Allah! Forgive me." Bukhari
.
So as Mohammad was dying he was cursing non-muslims and asking for forgiveness for himself.
As Jesus was dying he was asking for forgiveness for others...
.
. "If anyone disputes with you about Jesus being devine, flee them and pray that Allah will curse them." Qur'an3:61
So Mohammad cursed Christians (followers of Jesus and believers in Jesus being devine) but also asked for Allah to curse anyone who disputes that Jesus was devine. No wonder the religion is so misunderstood.