Indonesia bans Ahmadiyah teachings

Hmmm. The Ahmadiyya. Yes, a reformed type of Islam. Yet, one that asserts Islams supremacy over all other religions, quoting -- yes -- the Qur'an:
http://www.alislam.org/

Ahmadiyyat is the divinely promised revival of Islam prophesied in The Holy Quran (9:33, 48:29, 61:10) and by the Holy Prophet of Islam (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him)

All these allude to the similar meaning: http://www3.alislam.org/showVerse.jsp?vn=33&ch=9&tPN=385

He it is Who has sent His Messenger with guidance and the religion of truth, that He may make it prevail over every other religion, even though the idolaters may resent it.

Translation from the link above.

Hmmm. So again, one cannot readily discern where any given Ahmadiyya muslim's loyalties lie.

As a side note: Surah 9, At Tawbah, is the only one which does not begin with the customary "In the name of Allah the most beneficent, the most merciful". It was explained to me that this was so because Allah revealed his wrath against the disbelievers in this Surah

Remember it next time when someone cites Indonesia as an example of a modern, tolerant, democratic Islamic country that respects human rights. As usual, freedom of religion is a human right for Muslims only when talking about the position of Islam in dar-al-Harb.

Ahmadiyah, Sufi Muslim, so bs. They are all intolerant of other religions, and the nonbelievers in any religion. I saw this guy who was the founder of some Sufi Muslim institute in DC and he said Sufi's are peaceful and reject terrorism, etc., etc. You really cannot believe any of these guys. Anyone who believes in the Qur'an is an enemy to me.

Herald Sun
Bashir on jail drive for recruits

Radical Islamic cleric Abu Bakar Bashir has been using his jail time to
recruit hundreds of radicals through Islamic schools set up inside Jakarta
prisons with the approval of the authorities.

Bashir will be in court today to hear the verdict in his trial on terror
charges.

A panel of judges will decide whether or not he was the alleged spiritual
leader of the al-Qaeda-linked Jemaah Islamiyah network blamed for a string
of attacks, including the Bali bombings of 2002. But the radical cleric
appears to have found prison to be one of his easiest and most successful
recruiting grounds.

Bashir, along with leaders from other militant Muslim groups such as the
Islamic Defenders Front (FPI), has set up a series of schools or pesantren
not just in Cipinang, where he was detained over the past two years, but
also in two other Jakarta prisons – Salemba and Tangerang.

FPI leaders say the prison pesantren are a cheap and easy way for these
groups to recruit potential radicals.

"If we build new boarding schools we must have money for food and
buildings, but in prison it is all free because it comes from the
Government. So we co-operate with the Government to develop human
resources," says Hilmy Bakar, the vice-chairman of the Defenders Front.

Bashir, often accompanied by FPI leader Habib Rizieq, regularly holds
Muslim prayer sessions for students at his prison boarding school called
Pesantren Attawaibin.

This has 500 members drawn from the prison population, while Salemba,
where Habib served a short jail term for inciting followers to destroy
bars, has 300 members, as does Tangerang Prison.

Bakar claims Bashir and Rizieq's teachings focus on avoiding sin and
belief in Allah, thus developing the prisoner's "human resources". Bashir
and Rizieq are not teaching the prison inmates to use violence, but to
attack the West with ideas, he says.

The only glimmer of hope about the Qadiani/Ahmadiyya sect is that its founder rejected violent expansionist Jihad; for this he was labeled an apostate.

However, the justifications that he used to condemn Jihad were the same flawed ones that are permeated today: that the early Jihads were in "self-defense" and that the Qur'an (the oft repeated 2:257) preaches no compulsion in religion. Arguments that are soundly obliterated by the traditional (and current) Jihadists.

So again, this sect's teachings cannot be taken as a serious response/answer to traditional Islam, as it does not outright reject those parts of Islamic scripture that condone -- nay, encourage and obligate -- violent Jihad.

It's the intramural struggles that are always fiercest. New movements arising within a religion always face strong opposition--especially if the founder claims to be Messiah, Mahdi, Maitreya, or whatever future savior is promised. While the Romans may have done the actual dirty work of crucifixion and Pontius Pilate goes down in the Gospels as a cynical careerist and in the creed as the one under whom Christ suffered, the Sanhedrin and others of his own people clearly wanted him dead, too. In later Christian history, sects like the Mormons, who added Scriptures and new revelations, also met fierce opposition and attempts at suppression. The relationship of the Sabbataians and Frankists to Judaism after the 17 and 18th centuries has been a difficult one.

Nor was Muhammad Ahmed of the Ahmadiyya movement the first "mahdi" to appear in Islam. In 19th century Iran, the Bab appeared, his followers later becoming the Ba'hais, who are famous for the rough treatment they've received. In the Sudan, the Mahdist movement of the late 19th century met with fierce opposition from the ruling Turko-Egyptian regime, which required British help in suppressing it.

My guess is that as Islam continues its implosion, we'll see more mahdis arise.

This is a good example of why reform of Islam is so difficult. The doctrine of jihad conquest is so entrenched in the Islamic canon that only a figure who arises with a claim of authority equal to Muhammed (rasul) can abrogate it. And so it is that men like Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, Siyyid Ali Muhammed and Mirza Hussein Ali, the 19th century founders of the Ahmadiyya, Babi and Bahai movements respectively, are the only real hope that the world has of putting an end to this terrible scourge that has afflicted humanity for more than a thousand years.

The Ahmadiyya and Babi movements still allow "defensive" jihad so it is not clear that the disease of religiously inspired violence would be entirely eradicated if these two movements were able to propagate within the ummah but getting halfway to the destination is better than getting nowhere at all. The Bahai canon, however does unambiguously renounce all forms of jihad.

The implications for Western policy makers is that wherever possible, political, economic and social conditions conducive to the growth and protection of these movements within Muslim lands must be developed and preserved with the highest diplomatic, economic and military imperative.

Isn't Thomas Haidon trying to reform Islam?

Why doesn't he join these guys?

The Baha'i leaders began to be executed as soon as Khomeini, and Judge Khalkhali, came to power in Iran. The Ahmadiyya and the Babigroup that Dr. Mack refers to in his enlightening post above, are as he acutely puts it, half-way there in the emphasis they put on "defensive" Jihad, but that is still a loophole as big as any of those W. C. Fields was famously looking for when he flipped through a Bible.

It is a kind of half-way house, for those too fearful, or too bound by filial piety, to make a full leap out of Islam. But they may have no choice. Persecution in Pakistan and in Indonesia, even formal declarations of being "not-Islam" may force some to choose. Chances are, however, that many will stick with Islam. But not all.

And what about the Ahmadiyya missionaries who were so successful in Africa? Are they aware, like the Alawites in Syria, that no matter what they do the most orthodox of Muslims will never accept them -- not least because the founder of the sect declared himself a prophet, a prophet later than the final Seal of the Prophets, Muhammad -- and we all know what trouble he was asking for when he made that claim.

And this nation is held up by some as a fairly 'moderate' non-Arab Muslim state -- I don't know anything about this sect, but now we see how Indonesian Islam is also intolerant is when it comes to sectarian deviation, innovation, or reformation... The facts on the ground regarding Islam's fascist character are impossible not to notice them, or ignore -- why are so many still in the dark ? ? ?

PS -- I wonder how all the new black converts to "Islam" especially those who are dumb enough to join Nation of Islam feel about their obvious apostacy -- Their militancy, bigotry, and hatred aspires to see America falter and fail -- yet surely the US is one of the only countries in the world (tolerant enough or blind enough) to allow their racist sect to 'worship' freely ! ?

ALSO -- I wonder how American blacks (overwhelmingly the sector of the US population attracted to Islam) who have converted to Islam feel about the ongoing Arab enslavement of blacks in Saudi Arabia Sudan Ethiopia Libya Yemen Nigeria etc etc... Or the fact that Saudi Arabia only got around to 'outlawing' slavery in 1962... I say 'outlawing' because it is still a widespread practice among Arab Muslims, and not frowned upon at all by their religion or culture...

jsla - I have always wondered wondered why black Americans converted to Islam in such large numbers and call their children Arabic-sounding names like 'Jamal' etc.

Dont they know that Muslims were responsible for much of the slave traffic out of Africa and that they hold black people in contempt?

It was actually Christians who finally put a stop to slavery.

Why do they ignore these facts, or are they unaware of them?

Re Indonesia - the govt. is also 'encouraging' women to 'dress more modestly'. Can anyone blame Australians for being paranoid about having a large Muslim country directly to our north?

This just in from AP, with apologies to Iowahawk for the use of his medium in a bon cause:

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Des Moines - The government of Iowa has banned Evangelical Swaggartism, a splinter group of Christianity which believes Jimmy Swaggart did not sleep with a prostitute, from propagating their teachings as they are against Christian tenets, a Presbyterian minister says.

"The religious ruling is that the teachings of Swaggartism are against Christianity and therefore we forbid the propagation of this misleading faith," Iowa Religious Minister Davey Johansen said after meeting with the president at his office here on Tuesday. "Yep, yep, that's right, all right. And also because he's, well, a bit funny-lookin, don'cha know."

According to Johansen, the prohibition of Bakerian Evangelicalism to propagate its teachings has been specified in a decree of the Religious Minister, which, as we must actually admit, is himself, and our reporting of the fact that according to Johansen this decree has been specified by Johansen - himself - leaves us wondering what the hell we were talking about when we reported it.

"We have already had a ruling on this matter, and therefore there is no need to issue another one," he said. "Unless, y'know, the Milk Board meets on the second Friday, like every second Friday don'cha know, and calls down an alternate fatwa. Happened before, yep, yep." Johansen was reported to have nodded rhythmically at this point until the cameras pointed away from him.

The Religious Affairs Ministry on September 20, 1984 issued a circular directed to state offices throughout greater Iowa declaring Swaggartism as misleading and against Christianity on grounds that, freaking AGAIN, we've already reported.

(For f**k's sake - don't we have a damn copy editor? It's murder working in Antara, I'll tell you that, and not just the old stabbie-stabbie-the-Christians kind of murder, but some genuinely disappointing stuff. Can we just report this sh*t ONCE and get on with it? - Ed.)

A study on Swaggartist teachings concluded the exact same FREAKING THING we reported in the first goddamed paragraph, as if repeating the f**cker over and over and over makes it true, somehow! Holy Christ! (Wait, I meant to say 'Murdering Mohammed'! Not that evil Christ-shirk thing. Sorry. - Ed.) Seriously, it's ALREADY MENTIONED. Do we have to keep doing this?

In addition, the Religious Affairs ministry also banned Indianan Swaggartist followers from propagating the ("The" teachings? Nice grammar. I give up. - Ed.) teachings, as it may create a conflict," said a circular signed by Director General for Religious and Corn Affairs Will P. Nightly.

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.....NNNNOT!

Here's the difference, religiously, ladies and germs: Christians haven't gone about brutally religiously suppressing each other in some time. This as an ACTUAL news story, you will not find in the US. Okey-dokey? Yet despite such lessons as we've illustrated from hundred of years back, other religions - well, ONE other religion - feels it's all hunky-dory, and that Western civilization are a bunch of layabouts for not slaying more people in pointless causes. I chose Iowa since a region of the US with a more bland reputation cannot possibly be imagined, unless that region were Canada - ;) - and Iowahawk's medium, since I am a cheap hack.

I particularly liked how the original item had to repeat the underlying description of what an Ahmadiyyah was three times in order to reinforce their point that it was shirk. I think that fact might be evident in my rewrite. Reiteration is the key to sublimation, don'cha know, yep yep.

Imam Geoff

PS: No Iowans were hurt in the making of this article, even though we really wanted to.

PPS: I apologize to all Iowans, everywhere, including those in Indiana. I do not include Iowans currently residing in Canada, however: you should know better, and basically it's your own damn fault.

PPPS: J/K about the Canada thing. It's a great country, except for it's proximity to Wisconsin.

Think I'll just stop there...freaking Wisconsonians.