Jatras: Bosnia: The Birthplace of Al-Qaeda

A perfect example of idiotic American foreign policy under Bill Clinton. We end up protecting our enemies from the Serbs just so that they can kill us later. As Milosevic said after 9/11....
"These are the people I was dealing with." We should never have gotten involved. The Europeans would've continued holding meetings (and doing nothing) while Milosevic wiped out the terrorists. The United States' actions against the Serbs were shameful. Now we pay the price.

Well on the part of Serbs wanton destruction of life and mass rapes were surely unjustified. But it was a two way war. With similar acts of brutality commited by Bosnians too. But i think Srebrenica is too hammered into European consciouness to remmeber the Serb vicims of similar atrocities.

Well on the part of Serbs wanton destruction of life and mass rapes were surely unjustified. But it was a two way war. With similar acts of brutality commited by Bosnians too. But i think Srebrenica is too hammered into European consciousness to remmeber the Serb vicims of similar atrocities.

The failure of those making policy to study the history of the Ottoman rule in the Balkans, or when they do get around to studying it, to largely accept the glancing mention so often given to the rayas (non-Muslims) under Ottoman rule, or even a sanitized presentation of their histories, as by Stanford Shaw (see Speros Vryonis on Stansford Shaw's Ottoman history) and Bernard Lewis, so lionized in Istanbul for, among other things, his solicitude for the tender sensibilities not only of those Turks with whom he has had a longstanding personal or professional relationship, but also for the very idea of "modern Turkey," a Turkey that must be forgiven its rewriting of history (including the Turkish nationalist myth of the "Sun People"), and so much else -- all, of course, justified as being in a "good cause" (that cause, presumably, is Kemalism, and secularism, but the means chosen -- historical amnesia -- was not in the end wise).

In the Balkans, the Western powers failed to understand Izetbegovic, and what he laid out, as his ultimate aim -- the imposition of sharia. The indifference in the Western world to all this filled Serbs with dread, and that dread in turn, caused some (but not all) Serbs to allow themselves to be bamboozled by the intolerable likes of Milosevich. The Clinton Administration had no sympathy for the Serbs, and all sorts of people became hysterical on the subject who had never read Ivo Andric (whose doctoral thesis on what Ottoman Turkish rule meant for the development of civilization in the Balkans has recently been reprinted, and deserves to be read). The entire Western world, with the exception of Peter Handke, and a few French commentators, was hellbent on demonizing Serbia. It was unacceptable, but accepted. It is, of course, exactly what has been allowed to happen with the hapless Israelis as well -- they, who are threatened not "possibly" but certainly with a relentless Jihad, are painted world-wide as the aggressors, the "occupiers" of their own land, land to which by all the rules of warfare, by all the rules of the Mandate for Palestine, by all the legitimate appeals to history and morality, belong to them and not to the ferocious Arabs who believe that no non-Muslims, and even no non-Arab Muslims, in the end really matter. These others have no history, no claim on the world, for they are not Believers in Allah. And therefore, they can be ignored, or killed, or suppressed in a thousand ways.

This the Serbs had had experience with. Even if one does not have to send one's children off in the forced levy of the devshirme, simply knowing that it existed for centuries, that one's family suffered from it, and that a man called Izetbegovic seems to regard such practices, and many more, as highly desirable, worthy of re-imposition on non-Muslims, along with the rest of historic Muslim Ottoman practices, would cause many to behave as they would not under conditions less threatening.

Muslims milking Srebrenica for all it will give.

Bosnian Muslims re-enact escape from Srebrenica

http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=43759&version=1&template_id=39&parent_id=21

Milosevic was the last man alive of Europe. I can not help but wonder that America and Europe are being punished for crushing the Serbs and standing shoulder to shoulder with the Jihad.

People like Bill Clinton have a special place in hell, and also those who fall for their antics. However, he proves that humanity is easily seduced by immoral people who exhibit a charisma not unlike fools’ gold, shiny but worthless. As the persecution of the Serbs unfolded, I cursed Bill Clinton and the darned Europeans for their support of Jihad against its centuries long victims. Surly, poetic justice and the ironic hands of fate are at work here.

People like Bill Clinton have a special place in hell, and also those who fall for their antics. However, he proves that humanity is easily seduced by immoral people who exhibit a charisma not unlike fools’ gold, shiny but worthless. As the persecution of the Serbs unfolded, I cursed Bill Clinton and the darned Europeans for their support of Jihad against its centuries long victims. Surly, poetic justice and the ironic hands of fate are at work here.

pontion

I agree with you wholeheartedly. That was my feeling even at the time of the Bosnia and the Kosovo wars.

We are now going to have to fight the jihadis here, while both our hands are tied by the mantra of the "Religion of peace". We will need lots of luck.

The best way to win this war with little or no expense in blood or treasure, is to start deportations of illegals, bogus asylum seekers and any who sympathise with islamic jihadism. That should be the start. If deportations cannot be done as it ois ethnic cleansing, then the option of exchange of populations should be considered. Our muslims for the persecuted Christians in muslims nations.

If this is done, it will bring about a collapse of islam. This will be good for us, and also for muslims enslaved by islam. The slavery of islam will come to an end.

I find some of the comments above quite perturbing in relation to the Balkans war. Firstly Tito's Yugoslavia created conditions where the essence of 500 yrs of Turkish rule were largely forgotten, or rather supressed (we are persuing the same policy here in this respect).

Milosevic had and still has about as much understanding of islam as Clinton or Blair. If Milosevic was alive in 1389, he most probably would be one of the first to deal with the Turks and sell out his 'fellow' countrymen for thirty pieces or a great deal less. What would one expect from a Vasojevici? Before any Serb readers angrily respond - the Montenegrin fortune seekers moving to Serbia (ever since the mid 1800s) to 'help' their 'fellow' Serbs were precisely that - political opportunists. One should remember Milosevic's dictum the Serbian nation has two eyes one in Serbia and the other in Montenegro (with its heart in Kosovo). In this he closely mirrors that certain Austrian corporal who wanted to unite the German speaking peoples. For Milosevic his heart was set on power, not the interests of the Serb nation. As long as he could have all the pie (and not share it) he didn't care if the pie got smaller, just as long it was all his.

In this way he sold out Martic (Krajina Serbs), who in the aftermath immediately cried foul (even millitary sabotage) with respect to Belgrade's dealings with the west and Zagreb (why should Martic accept now what was on offer, when the deal from the Croats, backed by the EU was the same if not better before the conflict? In which case why did Milosevic get them to go the war in the first place?). A quiet word in his ear and of course, a new dacha in Serbia and hundreds of thousands of Deutschmarks kept him quiet.

In Bosnia the same old story, who here remembers Gravoho (Croat army recapture [note the Serb regular ary did not ever operate in Bosnia], spliting lines of comms. between Krajina and Serb Bosnia) when Karadzic's tried to get Mladic (Milosevic's man through and through) removed soon after this.

This seemingly endless war just had to be stopped, but the Serbs were actually on the point of victory, Bihac was about to fall and that would have tipped the balance in favour of the Serbs. Thats when NATO sprung into action, crippling the Serbs in aid initially of the Croats (not muslims, that came later). What Karadzic wanted was a Muslim state that was in the long term unviable, that could grow to harm the Serbs in the long term. Milosevic simply didn't care for the long term interests of the Serb nation, just his own political hide.

Kosovo was lost long before Milsosevic. In the aftermath of WW2, Tito (a croat) chose to expel the Volkdeutsch and the Italians, they were of no use to him. The Albanians (and Hungarians) on the other hand could keep Serbian power in check (Kosovo and Vojvodina diluted Serb dominance). It is also widely suggested (in many senior cirlcles) that Tito had an eye of Hohxa's Albania with the possibilty of annexation.

Milosevic genuinely did not want conflict in Kosovo, but the KLA forced the pace - if Bosnia could be split why not Serbia? If the readers recall a few months before the bombing campaign the Albanians (prematurely in this case) scented blood, 50,000 refugees appeared on the Albanian border - Milosevic SHUT the border in order to avoid the negative impact. Only after Rambouillet (the Serbs should have never attended this secound Munich) he knew that the die was cast.

By no means is the NATO intervention a worst case scenario for the Serbs. That would be to follow Clinton and Blair's vision of a multiethnic and multifaith society. Over 100,000 Alanians were living in Belgrade alone prior to the NATO led bombing. The birth rate of the muslims meant that in less than 100 years that the Serbs would have been a minority in their own country and back to being Dhimmis.

JV

JV - Thanks for the history lesson. That we didn't know this BEFORE Clinton decided to go to war is an outrage.

By no means is the NATO intervention a worst case scenario for the Serbs. That would be to follow Clinton and Blair's vision of a multiethnic and multifaith society. Over 100,000 Alanians were living in Belgrade alone prior to the NATO led bombing. The birth rate of the muslims meant that in less than 100 years that the Serbs would have been a minority in their own country and back to being Dhimmis.

Sorry to say that we in the West will have to take a page from Soviet policy: the creation of "Hero" Mothers who are willing to increase Western population to avoid being overrun by Muslims.