UK turns down French proposal on surveillance of mosques

From IRNA, with thanks to Anthony:

British Home Secretary Charles Clarke has poured cold water over a French proposal to control all mosques in EU in the aftermath of last week’s terror attacks in London.

Clarke told a press conference after the extraordinary session of the EU Justice and Home Affairs ministerial Council in Brussels Wednesday evening that French interior minister Nicholas Sarkozy had made the proposal in the meeting.

“He (Sarkozy) has to think what is best for the security in France.

From my part, in the UK, we are considering the position of some of the preachers in certain circumstances because it is necessary to do so,” said Clarke.

“But I think that to move to an overall position that says surveillance is the right way is a big step that we will need to consider very carefully.”

“It is important that in everything we do we work with the legitimate mainstream Muslim community,” stressed the British Home Secretary.

Clarke said the Muslim community in Britain are committed to working very strongly to protect the democratic system.

I sure hope he’s right about that.

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Comments

  1. says

    Sarkozy is now the most popular man in France. He will replace Chirac. And the English? When will they realize that this proposal is the absolute minimum that must be done? The Turks realize it, and every khutba must be approved by the government. The Tunisians realize it, and monitior the mosques. And so do many other Muslim states. Why not England? What do the English know about Islam that Ataturk and those who supported his systematic efforts to constrain the political and social role of Islam, did not know?

  2. says

    Hugh, there is only one reason for this, and that is that the British government has been turned.

    Yes, they are traitors, and one day we will know exactly what they are getting out of having this stance.

  3. says

    “But I think that to move to an overall position that says surveillance is the right way is a big step that we will need to consider very carefully.”

    That has come up before adn is a good idea. Still there are those who cringe at surveillance even of a public place. Many refered to the security tapes from public places all around London that police were combing through as troubling aspects that Big Brother is already here.

    For all those who equate the religious right and al-Qaeda, a deal: we will let the FBI attend Jerry Falwell’s public meetings, too. Now can we please start looking at mosques?

  4. says

    Since muslims are offended by dogs, I expect the British will not use bomb sniffing dogs in muslim communities when such devices are suspected. Relations with muslims might improve too if all Brits were made to ride in the back of Public buses. It might not hurt either if Parliment would pass a law mandating all non-muslims to lower their eyes and affect a stooped posture when encountering any muslim on the street. If it takes Legislative action to facilitate better relations, so be it!

  5. says

    “Clarke said the Muslim community in Britain are committed to working very strongly to protect the democratic system.”

    Why, of course! It guarantees them complete control over Britain once there are enough Muslims. Surely those radicals with their bombs aren’t going to turn Britain into a Muslim state. No, no, it’s the ‘moderate’ ones that have got it all figured out.

    More power to ’em.

  6. says

    Frontpage Magazine had a couple of articles (one by Daniel Pipes) about muslims in France. The articles stated that ALL mosques are under surveillence in France and that Imams are required to learn French and preach in French.

  7. says

    we will let the FBI attend Jerry Falwell’s public meetings, too.

    Nothing prevents this from happening now as far as I know. As anyone living in the free world knows, many churches broadcast their services or otherwise record their messages for later use. Finding out what is getting said and taught in legitimate houses of worship isn’t a problem.

    Mosques should also present themselves for open scrutiny and provide copies of any materials used to whoever requests it that is willing to pay for it if the mosques aren’t feeling charitable. (note: almost any church in America will gladly provide you free of charge enough tapes, documents, and home visits, to keep you occupied for months if not years to come)

    If a group is secretive and exclusive it shouldn’t be surprised if people suspect them of doing something they shouldn’t be. In the case of Mosques, Muslims, and Terrorism only the terrorized, the ignorant, or the deluded believe that they are not closely tied to one another.

    f.g.

  8. says

    “Clarke said the Muslim community in Britain are committed to working very strongly to protect the democratic system.”

    Except in Birmingham, where Muslims rigged all those postal votes for their Labour pets.

  9. says

    The Brits paid tribute to the victims of the London freedom fighters/insurgents by having 2 minutes of silence. It’s too bad they have to be silent about islam and cant use harsh words, but the law is the law, eh guv?

  10. says

    goesh wrote…It might not hurt either if Parliment would pass a law mandating all non-muslims to lower their eyes and affect a stooped posture when encountering any muslim on the street. If it takes Legislative action to facilitate better relations, so be it!..

    I think the act should be call the “Dhimmi Act for Self Preservation” and should be cheered as a breakthrough for freedom and religious rights.

  11. says

    Mosques are Armories. Too bad the British government refuses to look at them in that light. Instead, Blair wants to “reach out” to the Muslim community in Britain.

    Muslims blow something up, and the government wants to have a “dialogue” with them.

    Morons.

  12. says

    This is what the West has become. Now that the Muslims have become entrenched in the West, we must try to control them from killing us. Is that the bottom line, Imam Blair.

    I have a question Imam Blair. If the ‘misinterpretation’ is committed by a tiny, tiny minority, why must our government spend billions trying to protect us from so few. Wouldn’t one paddywagon hold them all? There are so few, we should be able to round them up in an afternoon.

    One last question, Imam Blair. How do you expect to lead when your number one goal is to deceive the public regarding Islam? As Hugh wrote in his ‘guide to Islam for the perplexed infidel’ – who are you going to believe, England, Tony Blair or your lying eyes? I would not follow a liar, and your citizens won’t either.

    Oh, and another thing, steel barriers are going up around Parliament. As we build our barricades and blast walls, we really need to ask Imam Blair, ‘what is the root cause?’ and come to a truthful answer, not taquiyya to pacify and deceive the public.

  13. says

    In observing the British response to the attacks, I began to question what universe Blair, Livingstone, Prince Charles, the gang at the Home Office etc., etc., etc., that is the leadership of Britain, are living in.

    After reading the 4 part report leaked to the UK press titled, “Young Muslims and Extremism,” the other day:

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1688261,00.html

    It became clear that even as the report described the seemingly innate fundamentalism of Moslems, born and raised in the UK and substantiated by the 7/7 bombings, an official policy of denial and promotion is in effect for the foreseeable future, as endless and open-ended as the sacred British/European asylum and immigration policies sealing their fate.

    “Young Muslims and Extremism” recommends that officials uses specific language, avoid offensive terminology and emphasize Muslim community success in dealing with their Muslim parallel population This despite all empirical evidence, is said to be no different that the majority traditional British culture. In other words, the King is wearing no clothes.

    That’s not all. It suggests greater flattery and undeserved praise be heaped upon Muslims in the hopes, one might deduce, that they will feel ‘good’ enough about themselves and forget that they are Muslims and hence STOP being Muslims.

    That means not threatening the very survival of their host nations on every continent, stop living in Muslim ghettos, allowing their women to marry whomever they wish, allow for freedom of religion etc.

    In essence they are trying not to ignite an undefusable religious time bomb with the hands at 5 minutes to midnight.

    This ‘Chamberlain-like’ appeasement and Orwellian thought control, is officially sanctioned as engineered by the British government AND coupled with the systematic, simultaneous disassembling of British character and culture with the professed-objective of recreating it along multicultural/racial-lines.

    All legislated in sheer contempt for the will of the English people to curb immigration and stop their own cultural destruction.

    In essence, tyrannical rule of Britain in one form or another is over the horizon and Moslems are cognizant of this fact and hope to be the ones in control as sure as their multitudes assemble on prayer mats in the streets of England every Friday.

    But obedience is demanded by the Home Office and the UK Committee on Racism and Intolerance. Real British citizens are expected to celebrate this grave existential threat as some vague benefit of ‘diversity.’

    Indeed, even a commemoration of the murdered victims of Jihad in London this Saturday has become an occasion to celebrate tolerance and diversity, the very cult-like ideologies that enable the terror which is being spread through every western society on this Earth,

    “Commemorating the attack on London by celebrating diversity”:

    http://www.amnation.com/vfr/

    Really it is criminal. The millions of third worlders as well as Muslims are granted special status, promoted culturally at every turn, protected by thought crime laws and hate crime laws and stealth crime laws and endless propaganda giving them on a silver platter the future of Britain, while the other 56 million white British non-Moslem citizens simply don’t matter.

    Multiculturalism is promoted as a super-cult now and it is the curtain ‘extremists’ or Moslems, are using as a cover WITH the help of the criminally liable Blair government.

    One question to anyone out there in the UK in the know; when is ‘diverse’, diverse enough? When will the importation of Moslems by the TENS of THOUSANDS be enough? What percentage of the English population is Islamic enough to place a stop to the cultural genocide industry forced upon the British people by their noxious elites?

  14. says

    DCWatson:
    “Muslims blow something up, and the government wants to have a “dialogue” with them”

    And after that it will have a dialogue with AIDS virus.

  15. says

    Galloway is proposing an immediate cash settlement for all London muslims caused by the inconvenience of the recent exploisons. Debate rages fiercely as to whether or not it should be a lump-sum payment or gradual disbursement of the 1.8 billion proposed. Stay tuned! Resolution of this crisis is pending!

  16. says

    Imam Tony Blair and Imam Prince Charles believe that the vast majority of their sons of allah are good people, so why sanction spying on mosques? After all, it is a religion of peace.

    Piece by piece you will have to find the remains of the infidels who oppose allah’s (really mohamed’s) murderous will.

  17. says

    STARK STARING BLOODY BONKERS !!!!!!!!!!

    THIS GOVERNMENT IS TOTALLY & UTTERLY INSANE!!!!

    WHERE DO WE APPLY TO HAVE THEM ALL CERTIFIED OR HUNG FOR TREASON.

  18. says

    Anthony,

    yes, that “leaked document” is totally dhimmi, and still the Islamists at 1924.org see it as a shrewd attempt to “subvert Islam” (that is, by supporting the “moderates” who are not real Muslims – or rather, one should say, a moderate doctrine that is not real Islam) (http://www.1924.org/opinion/index.php?id=2002_0_34_0_C )

    What was really tragicomic in these “reports” was the emphasis on the need to publicize Muslim “success stories”, while at the same time it was repeatedly said that there was not much “success” to speak about: unemployment triple compared to non-Muslims, nearly half lacking any qualifications etc. But let’s praise them so they’ll feel good, so maybe they won’t blow us up in the near future… Very strategically clever indeed.

  19. says

    “Another typical example of P.C. denial.”

    King: Why is all pragmatism and careful dissection of a problem rejected as p.c. denial to you lot? Simply because most of the world rejects your wholesale hateful bullshit does not mean we’re in denial. To the contrary, we’ve been able to evolve past the solutionless hate and “My religion is better than your religion” nonesense. Sifting through the moronic posts here yields almost nothing for solutions. You simply feed the fire of ignorance and serve as polarizers.

    If France feels it needs to monitor its mosques for security reasons, fine. If the UK feels it has a different idea to monitor hate, that’s great, too. Bottom line is that the hate needs to be squashed and it begins with dissection.

    Indeed, there is a hateful, radical brand of Islam being promoted out there but this brand is not embraced by mainstrean Muslims despite what you all may go to bed thinking at night.

  20. says

    In the US mosques and Clerics are afforded the same tax exempt status as any other church or religious organisation. While they are preaching hate and discontent, they are recieving tax free money. To begin with…in the US, you dont need anyones permission to establish a church, or a religion. You only need permission from the gov, if you want a tax free status for your church. The IRS has few requirements, a board of directors with as few as three members…recruitment, publishing of written material, regular meetings or services…plus a few more small items, and not necessary ‘all’ of the above items. Once your church gets this status, you can operate almost like the IRS does not exist….Islam qualify’s…
    Thats why they need to be seen as a ‘religion’, or ‘religious organisation’. If it were recognised that this was a theocratic cult, bent on establishing gov by Islamic law, they may not qualify for the generous religious exemptions.
    Possibly some smart lawyer or group, could challange the definition of Islam as a ‘religion”, blow their cover, and make em pay taxes on every penny brought in…

  21. says

    If our great Governemnt can investigate Hindu charities after 2002 Gujrat Riots then why not keep a watch on mosques.. India and China do monitor their masjids as far as i know…

  22. says

    King Tolerance:

    Take your Taqiyya and propaganda elsewhere. Perhaps you can find work with David Myatt (i.e. Abdul Aziz):

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Myatt

    or perhaps you can be Johann Von Leers (i.e. Umar Amin von Leers) replacement in Egypt for Mubarak:

    http://www.trackingthethreat.com/content/notes/note1477.htm

    Anyone who has even a cursory acquaintance with the basic facts of Muhammad’s life knows that he was a psychopath – the original terrorist at the heart of Islam – a thief, a pedophile, a war-monger, complicit in mass murder, complicit in the assasinations of his opponents, an intolerant, religious fanatic. All the problems of Islam stem from him, the source. He started this terrible personality cult in the form of a religion that is still wreaking havoc today. Islam is the most dangerous cult that I have ever encountered. The world will be a much better place when we are rid of it.

  23. says

    Everyone needs to calm down! Those cheeky London freedom fighters that disrupted tube traffic were only upset over the sale of alcohol and unveiled women in London – nothing more! Most youthful indiscretions are best dealt with via therapy, understanding and economic incentives.

  24. says

    “Duh”: “If it were recognised that this was a theocratic cult”

    King: All religions are, by definition, cults. Misusing the word cult does not enhance your “position.” Here, it appears that you are droning on about the tax exempt status of religions in the US. Before talking taxes in the US

  25. says

    To the contrary, we’ve been able to…”

    Who in the hell is “we?” And why do you think the rest of us should give a rat’s ass about your elitist moral confusion? Clearly you’re suffering from a superiority complex and love to hear yourself talk. Go right ahead, we won’t think any less of you then we already do.

  26. says

    KingTolerance, as you’re clearly an expert on the difference between mainstream and radical Islam, perhaps you could clear this one up for me. I was looking at the website of a leading mainstream Muslim cleric the other day (al-Sistani, the most revered Shia cleric in Iraq) and he equates non-Muslims with urine and feces. Can you explain why a mainstream Islamic figure would say this, and how it differs from the beliefs of the radicals? Thanks.

  27. says

    KingTolerance:

    You are a true, unrepentant troll:

    troll – Unwelcome, offensive, stupid or abusive commenter on a blog, chat room, user group or BBS.

    Remember everyone. Don’t feed the trolls!

  28. says

    Kemaste: “Who in the hell is “we?” ”

    King: The vast majority out there who are able to think through a problem rather than rubber stamp it with hate. That’s who “we” are.

    Kemaste: “And why do you think the rest of us should give a rat’s ass about your elitist moral confusion?”

    King: I don’t. You are busy trying to work through your own moral confusion to worry about mine. And please do not bring rat’s asses into this. (wink)

    Kemaste: “Clearly you’re suffering from a superiority complex and love to hear yourself talk. Go right ahead, we won’t think any less of you then we already do.”

    King: First, we are typing on a website so I cannot “hear” myself talk. Second, I do not “suffer” from any sort of complex, I enjoy it. It is quite satisfying to pull your little tail and watch you yelp out insults thinking I give a shit what you think about me. To the contrary – the more you insult me, the more ad hominem you become and the further from the argument you get. Having you dislike me means I have things just about right.

    Thus far, this thread shows that most of you lot hate Islam, Tony Blair, Abdul Aziz, Prince Charles and little old me. The whole world has gone mad, but its not the scant number of you imbiciles, is it? Its everyone else and their ability to be pragmatic that galls you. How funny. How sad. How solutionless.

    Dr. Phibes: “he [al-Sistani] equates non-Muslims with urine and feces. Can you explain why a mainstream Islamic figure would say this, and how it differs from the beliefs of the radicals?”

    King: If you’d kindly share this website perhaps I would be able to “help.” In the interim, I can only offer that talk about urine and feces sounds radical to me, not moderate or mainstream. Your use of the word “mainstream” may be what’s wrong here. In see “mainstream” Muslims as those who are around us all day, living a peaceful life, flushing their urine and feces down the toilet like the rest of us.

  29. says

    Mentat: “You are a true, unrepentant troll”

    King: The intellect spews from you, eh? As far as “feeding” trolls, you’re up to two posts to me now. I guess we can see who the unrepentant one is here.

    If you’ve nothing to say about the UK’s mosque surveillance, shaddup!

  30. says

    Surveillance is more effective when it is covert. Charles Clark is probably well aware of this.

    Of course any group receiving public assistance (grants, tax breaks, etc) has to be open to a certain amount of public scrutiny to ensure that they serve the public good. And any person emigrating to Britain to teach any religion needs to be carefully scrutinised to ensure that they present no danger. And police and MI5 must investigate and monitor any place they suspect of involvement in crime, be it terrorism in mosques or child abuse in churches.

    But beyond that I think it’s generally good to keep the government out of religion, and vice versa.

  31. says

    Islam must be removed from the US and UK. The cycle of violence will continue until the mistake that is immigration of these people is stopped and reversed. Liberals talk about how the threat is small and how it’s from just the radical few and the occasional bad elements within the muslim community. The bus bomber was not radical, he even worked with handicapped children. He would have been a model of the good muslim, the kind of bloke all the indigenous locals would have smiled and told you that he was a kind wonderful person. A poster boy for muslim immigration and multiculturalism. Well that was on 7-6-05 on 7-7-05 he was a mass murderer. There are others just like him living right now in our societies waiting to do exactly what this muslim did.

    There is only one way to prevent this from happening over and over again and that is to remove every last muslim from our countries. Our President pledged 50 Billion dollars for a give away charity cause to Africa. What the hell? This money will offer no return on our investment. We should renege on the payment and spend that money more wisely.

    Now, say we have 3 million muslims living in the US. Most, by far and away are poor. The women do not work and the men are driving taxicabs etc to support their brood. Offer these people a million dollars each to renounce citizenship and leave the country never to return. A million dollars per person. This would cost just 300 million dollars and would be the best money we ever spent. The remaining money should pay to stop all illegal border crossings and to install anti missile defenses on all US passenger planes, taxes breaks to working families etc. This seems to be a better use of 50 Billion dollars than simply giving it away to Africa. But then Bono and Geldorf wouldn’t say that this administration is cool and being cool and liberal and tolerant is what life’s all about these days. Pussies.

  32. says

    The following ten things are essentially najis:

    Urine
    Faeces
    Semen
    Dead body
    Blood
    Dog
    Pig
    Kafir
    Alcoholic liquors
    The sweat of an animal who persistently eats najasat.
    *********
    King “Tolerance”, are you aware that anyone who wants to can enter a church and worship or just observe? Try that in a mosque. So what is so secret? Can it be that a mosque is a place of war? They don’t want their plans known to infidels? Christians have no problem having what is said in their churches broadcast on television.

  33. says

    I think the Government would be naive (at the very least) not to monitor the mosques. They may as well start now because sooner rather than later they will eventually have to. Of course it does not help when the likes of Ken Livingston welcomes with open arms a radical like quradawi (sp) and say he is the epitome of moderation.

  34. says

    I think others need to start hearing from people actually living in the affected areas of Britain before they judge. The BNP has a nasty reputation as racist by the mainstream media.

    Yet their comments section reveals a cross section of Britain desperately tryiny to express their plight.

    Even immigrants to the UK express sympathy for the engineered erasure of British culture on that site.

    http://www.drypool.net/cgi-bin/system.pl?id=nfnagb

  35. says

    from thread above: 300 million to flush the toilet once and for all…

    Cross you need to work on you math skills…! The bill for your proposal amounts to over 3 trillion dollars — But assuming that monies would only be paid to heads of families, and assuming that there are only 500,000 Muslim families in toto, the sum would be a more copable $500 Billion… But this idea also ignores how placing a half trillion dollars in the hands of 3 million deportees would cause serious blowback once they put a portion of their dollar windfall into the general Islamic fund for Jihad… Still, I like the idea of all of them being gone — I’m at a loss to find much evidence they add in any appreciable way to our culture, our economy, or to the general well being of other Americans. They seem like a selfish, malignantly dysfunctional, and increasingly menacing portion of our society. Even though they stoke up the alienation sentiment in order to enrage and control their population, I hope they begin to feel so marginalized in America that they no longer consider this land to be a comfortable place to reside. They already accuse of of every manner of transgression against them, ‘Islamophobia’ and severe discrimination — (things which I consider slanderous given our complete forbearance towards them in the aftermath of 9/11) So how much worse can their hatred be if we actually call their bluff and begin to marginalize them in earnest? Let’s get them moving to Canada, or back to their separatist ghettos in Europe, or best yet, back to their respective Muslim shit holes of origin — If Islam is such a great system, then let them wallow in already established examples of what Islam has to offer the world –here are some good examples of what Islam does to a country — Saudi Arabia(!) — Indonesia(!)– Pakistan(!) — Yemen(!) — Iran(!) — Iraq(!) — Algeria(!) — Syria(!) — Turkey(!) — Jordan(!) — Palestine(!) — Egypt(!) — Nigeria(!) — Libya(!) —
    Etc, etc. This is the track record of their beloved religion. This is the physical evidence of its utter dysfunctionality. This it the deplorable face of this malignant religion. This is why we don’t want them spreading their filth in our beloved land…

  36. says

    TooBad:

    You’re probably right, they are reacting to the importation on millions of non-Europeans to the small British Islands.

    The immigrants (third world), granted EVERY opportunity to adopt their new culture, DEMAND non-assemiliation and special rights. I guess you drank the Kool-Aid and think this is ‘Just.’

  37. says

    Hey KT,

    Do you have headlice? Mo has advice.

    The Hadith

    Burkhari vol IX, no. 130 One day the Prophet visited here (i.e. the wife of Ubada bin As-Samit) and she provided him with food and started looking for lice in his head.

    ..
    God, I love that hadith. It’s a classic.

  38. says

    If they are surveilling you, you should sure as hell be watching them.

    Covertly, overtly and every other –vertly.

    OT-

    King Tut Tut uses the “royal” we.

    (Perhaps he is really Prince Harry, the one who dressed up as an SS Officer for a party last year, now posting his true sympathies, resentful that a DNA test will eventually reveal him as the illegimate son of Diana’s red-headed horse-riding teacher named Hewitt? And thus not heir to the throne? There’s more to the ‘King’ than meets the online eye.)

  39. says

    No not at all. The BNP have very cynically turned their attention from “the wogs” taking over to the muslims because it resonates with the fears of a lot of people in the regions affected with large muslim populations. The BNP still remain a fundamentally racist group and remain on the fringe of british politics. They will get the odd local level victory but for the most part they are loathed by the mainstream. However, I do expect the BNP to experience an upsurge in the form of a protest vote that may influence New Labour or even the Tories. I am no multi-culti fan but I do welcome immigrants and most of what they bring but when it comes to their third world superstitions, well, you can leave that back in the village as far as I am concerned.

  40. says

    TooBad

    Then you, my friend, have officially joined the ranks of the ‘Useful iodiots’ category.

    You profess not even to mention the terrible plight of White Britons in their own country, actually their own urban areas that for the moment are totally third-worldized. Yet you attack the BNP and the many sensible people there warning you what you can expect.

    Go to Hell.

  41. says

    jsla,

    Thank you for reading my post. I inserted the incorrect amount to see if anyone was actually reading it.

  42. says

    Perhaps he is really Prince Harry, the one who dressed up as an SS Officer for a party last year, now posting his true sympathies,
    BigSleep, I had already considered that KT is Charles. Who else would have the brass b@*ls to call himself “king”?

  43. says

    Anthony, your response disappoints me. While I empathise with the frustrations of all nations that are toiling to cope with radical muslims, the BNP are not the answer. “White Britons” are not the only ones who suffer at the hands of radical muslims. Non white Britons also suffer but the BNP will turn on these Britons sooner or later because the BNP are RACIST bigots.

  44. says

    King: If you’d kindly share this website perhaps I would be able to “help.” In the interim, I can only offer that talk about urine and feces sounds radical to me, not moderate or mainstream. Your use of the word “mainstream” may be what’s wrong here. In see “mainstream” Muslims as those who are around us all day, living a peaceful life, flushing their urine and feces down the toilet like the rest of us.

    ‘Mainstream’ Muslims know what Islamic ‘scholars’ consider to be filthy. And that includes ‘unbelievers’. So the problem for KT is that the ‘mainstream’ Muslims around him all day really think he’s filthy.

    And gullible, too.

  45. says

    TooBad

    I think your rhetoric is without merit.

    You attack the BNP because a small minority of extremists there are expressing intolerance towards our tolerant Moslem immigrants to Britain.

    Don’t you understand that England is doing all it can (grabbing the ankles actually) to be accomidating to Moslems first, then Blacks then last but not least, the current majority, White Britons?

    What did your ancestors fight for in the great Second World War…a legal cultural transformation of England, outwardly discriminating against White Britons who Built that island Nation?

    Ask Saudi Arabia how it deals with multiculturalism.

  46. says

    Anthony

    Go pedal your racism somewhere else.

    This forum is not anti-black. It is anti-Islam. Black people got killed or injured in the bomb blasts.

  47. says

    I would say to everyone, please get out of Britain. You’re government isn’t on your side.

    So muslims are going to get money because their fellow religionists killed people?

    Galloways offer really takes the cake.

  48. says

    Anthony, the BNP are not a small minorty of bigots. The history of the BNP is steeped in racism. The group started off as a bunch of neanderthal racists who wanted the wogs out. There really isn’t much more to them than that. The fact that they have caught on to the publics fears about radical islam and have adjusted their message accordingly for the moment does not change their fundamental manifesto. If they could, the would round up the wogs, kikes, gypsies etc and deport them, at best. That is not who we are in Britain. The BNP are a fringe group of radicals on the same rung as the KKK. They always have been, they always will be.

  49. says

    I think the stupidity of Charles Clarke is breath-taking in regards to this, I want all Mosques monitored. Its a good start to deal with incitement. My fellow Brits are losing the plot again I think?

  50. says

    This forum is not anti-black. It is anti-Islam. Black people got killed or injured in the bomb blasts.

    So did Muslims.

    The BNP is a racist party. Race is not an issue of concern, since all races are equal. Islam is an ideology, and all ideologies are definitely not equal. If all Muslims were blue-eyed Aryans it wouldn’t change the problem of jihad nor would it make Sharia law compatible with democracy and human rights.

  51. says

    Skeet:

    I’m not a Brit, but I believe it was vernacular for just about any person of colour, but particularly from the Indian subcontinent.

  52. says

    Voltaire

    And you call yourself Voltaire you prick? I reccommend you actually read Voltaire.

    Branding me racist is a more of the same Orwellian-like speak of which you are a willing participant, while your own country goes down the crapper.

    The sledge-hammer of racial branding that people like YOU have suceeded in forcing upon the rest of western civilization has suceeded to devastating effect.

    Why are you here idiot? Is Islam a race?

  53. says

    A wog is an offensive name for a black person or non-white. Some backward people use it to describe anybody who is not white.

    Its a word I have never used, I would suggest that it is almost as bad as nigger, another word I would like consigned to the historical dustbin.

    The BNP are racist thugs, the sad thing is that because of the main stream politicians failure to listen to the people, the people have no one else to turn to. This is exactly what people like myself have feared would happen, its starting and it will grow. KinTolerance asked me what I would do and I replied in that thread, its a balance act between becoming what we should not and being walked over.

    I still agree with being respectful to other cultures, but I have ticked Islam off of the list of those cultures / religions / cults / ideologies that I will give respect too and I would suggest that anyone who is interested in maintaining Western freedoms and rights does the same as me.

    Sorry ia786 you might even be a nice person BUT you follow the death cult Islam.

  54. says

    The BNP’s roots go back to the National Front which was the bane of our student lives throughout the 1970s. One of their organisers was Nick Griffith who is now Chairman of the British National Party. The National Front took over the space left by the post war British Nazi party which was run by Colin Jordan, a nasty man and his very nasty French wife. I am just old enough to remember the Race riots of 1962 (but not the Notting Hill Riots of 1958)and the imprisonment of the Jordans for arson attacks on Jewish property (other groups attacked were West Indians, Cypriots and Maltese)
    So I could never support the BNP no matter how appealing the little blonde girls on their website or how enticing their protestations that they now work with Hindu and Sikh groups to defeat the “common menace”. The Sikhs and Hindus may feel able to ride the tiger, I advise keeping well away.
    And I agree with Daffersd on the seriousness of those particular terms of abuse.

  55. says

    BNP is racist? That epithet has been in circulation for so long and consistently misapplied, so I don’t take it too seriously anymore.

    Recently I expressed to some people here (Denmark) my disgust with Mahomet for his being a thief, murderer, rapist and child molester. I said a civilization founded by and revolving around such man-pig figure was doomed to eventually become a pigsty, a perfect pathology and that a westerner can only detest it.
    Although none of my debaters was a Moslem they were all stunned as if they have heard a most awful blasphemy. However none of them could refute my claim by presenting a coherent counter argument, but condemned my opinion for being deeply racist. Whether my points were factually correct did not interest them. Their most fundamental article of faith is Equality – not just equality of individuals, regardless of their race, but equality of cultures, religions and civilizations. It was with this article of faith they measured the goodness AND truth of other beliefs.
    It is very long ago I stopped worrying about being accused of racism for calling spade a spade. I also derive great satisfaction witnessing the total devaluation of “racist” word.

    I know very little about BNP. From my very superficial study of it it seems that its main concern is disappearance of England erased by completely inassimilable and hostile to her foreigners. I think that this concern is greatly justifiable. I also think that concern for the future of one’s country, her culture and identity is a noble feeling even if it offends some that of the foreign residents of the country.
    Now some 65 years ago Great Britain allied herslf with J. Stalin one of history’s greatest butchers – to fight Hitler’s enslavement of Europe. And thanks to God for that!
    Only a deeply naïve can’t see that today we are facing an enemy much more powerful than Hitler. An enemy who is already here, whose number grows exponentially and who will subjugate our’s children children to its monstrous “religion”. An enemy that will extinguish the most precious treasure of the West – our liberty.
    I think the English can’t afford being picky about allies when facing such formidable enemy. If Stalin was good enough an ally for Churchill when confronted with Nazi invasion, BNP should certainly be good enough for English people facing the Mohammedan invasion.

  56. says

    Dear Granny Weatherwax,

    Your recollection of the history of what is the BNP is indispensable. But if it is that lengthy, why do you not contrast Britain circa 1950’s to Britain now?

    Isn’t it true that the racial opinions of people matter far less than the practical expression of their hatred and rage, in the form of planes flying into the World Trade Center, commuters blown to pieces in Spain or Britons murdered by supposedly ‘Britanized’ Moslem school teachers and teenagers?

    Don’t you see that a certain degree of common sense and discrimination is necessary when dealing with widely differing cultures? Especially when Islam is involved and especially when an entire ancient people in THEIR historic land (the British people) are told that THEIR culture must become on par with every other culture imported to THEIR land because according to multiculturalism, there is no difference between historic Britons and Pakistani Moslems whose culture somehow still manages despite its immersion in the oldest democracy on Earth to produce jihadi killers?

    Where is your outrage at that expression of cultural/societal dismantlment?

    Why else would you be here on Dhimmi Watch, if Islam, the GREATEST threat of the Liberal multicultural ministry of Great Britain, was not perceived by YOU to be such a mortal threat?

  57. says

    Dear Thomas h. There is a fundamental difference between hating someone for their skin tone and hating someone for their idealogical beliefs. The BNP (formally the National Front) are in the former. But they will take it a step further. The will expel, persecute Jews, black etc. The fight against radical islam is not a race war. I am white and I can become a muslim by walking into a mosque and taking the oath. If someone calls you racist because you have questions or views on islam that doesn’t tie in with their own myopic view of islam, they are flat out wrong. The racist card is a tactic used by those that want to mask the real issue and cloud the real issue and intimidate you. Stand up to them, challenge them and debate it with them. If you think mo was a complete cad, that does not make you a racist. Also, there is no such thing as an islamophobe, that is a meaningless expression invented by the PC crowd and, muslims activists.

  58. says

    Granny, do you not feel that, if things go badly, let’s say thousands are killed in another attack, you have to ally with those you may not like. It’s trite, but my enemy’s enemy is my friend. They have the Muslim problem nailed on their website, while all the others, Tory, Labour, etc, they can’t even hit the plank.

  59. says

    What a waste.

    60+ comments of absolute rubbish. I really can’t understand some of the people here. You are never happy, all you want is ALL Muslims to suffer.

    What happened on 7/7 was tragic for everyone, only a deranged person could be happy with what happened. Instead of trying to fix the situation you attempt to throw more fuel onto the fire.

    As a British Muslim I am grateful for the generosity of the British people, they are very tolerant people and appreciate that dearly. With the police investigations after the bombing many high officials stated that not all Muslims should be blamed, why does this makes you so upset. What did you want them to say? Tony Blair, Michael Howard, Prince Charles said the same thing, what did they say wrong. What is the problem? I honestly cannot understand how you people think. Behind some of the comments here I just see pure hatred for Muslims.

    I have said before Islam and Muslims will not disappear. We wish to live in peace in the UK, I have no problem with anything that the authorities here have stated, I will do all in my power to help the authorities. Which part of that don’t you agree with? I will do more to fight extremism, Muslims should now rise up and expose the extremist elements, whats wrong with that???

    I challenged the people here to show me how terrorist attacks such as what happened on 7/7 are justified in Islam. I received very weak answers.

    Terrorism is not allowed in Islam, the attacking of innocents indiscriminately is a grave sin in Islam. Please show me how it is allowed. Show me.

    Show me the TRUE Islam that you fear and hate so much.

  60. says

    Oh Gawd, lying for Islam ia786 is back to wipe the floor with us !! How are you doing ? :)
    As a British Muslim ia786, I am glad to hear that you will be doing your absolute best to help the authorities. With concerned muslims like is786 working on the case I am sure the authorities will have all the main culprits arrested in no time.

  61. says

    ia786, We do not hate muslims. If muslims simply prayed and lived their lives and even performed dawah, we would not hate you. When your brothers in faith “get religion” they become murderers because old mo tells them to. You know what the qur’an says, don’t you? Of course you do. It really chaps you guys that we najis kaffirs can read your books, doesn’t it?

  62. says

    Honestly ia, answer a few questions truthfully.

    When you go to mosque, do you hear sermons about da-al-harb? What are they saying? It is not a Muslim goal to conquer it?

    You’re a troubled Muslim. If I was a Muslim, I would be apostate as soon as I could move away from my family, probably an atheist. Why do so many Muslims refuse to assimilate? Everybody else does for the most part, but not the Muslims. Too good for us?

  63. says

    Dear TooBad,

    Well, as I said before, I know very little about BNP except the scary picture pushed by our Danish overwhelmingly Leftist media.
    Remembering our media’s sycophant stance vis a vis everything communist from the Soviet Union to Sandinista and Castro regimes, their love affair with Arafat and PLO, Hamas, their “Bomb Serbia Now” hate festival … and their religious veneration for multicultural lunacy, I am somewhat skeptical of their fairness toward ideologically different.

    I, therefore, googled to BNP website spending a (short) time wading through its manifesto. Frankly, I did not find anything there what I would call racist and certainly not hatred of people with different skin colour. It certainly is a nationalist party in the sense that it rejects multiculturalism and wants Britain to continue being the HOME of the British people – not just a geographical area, a shell housing a rapidly growing number of aliens where the brits are degraded from the status of nation to an ethnic group – one among many. I can’t see that is racism.
    If, as you say, they “hate someone for their skin tone” they are certainly not explicit about it, so it is your word against their manifesto. Now, why should I believe the former and not the latter? Why should I accept your allegation that “they will expel Jews, black etc” if I can’t find even a hint of such program in their manifesto? Do you know something they don’t?

    And thank you for your assurance that I am not a racist. In fact I had never even considered I may be one. But thanks nonetheless.

  64. says

    Then there should be a new political party which is not racist, anti-semitic etc, but IS anti-Islam.

    Anyone in Britain care to start one?

  65. says

    ia786,
    I don’t hate individual moslems, but I hate Islam for its hating me.
    And for its hating, Hindu, Jews, Buddhist, Christians, animists…
    And for its 1400 years history of most cruel murder, genocide, torture, rapine.
    And for its Taqyia, Jezya, Sharia, and its Murderia.
    And for the monumental stupidity of some of you who believe we must be total idiots and will take seriously the gibberish and crude, infantile lies like those you pack into your cretinic letter.

  66. says

    60+ comments of absolute rubbish. I really can’t understand some of the people here. You are never happy, all you want is ALL Muslims to suffer.

    Actually I’d quite like it if the whole idea of violent jihad was dropped and no Muslim or non-Muslim had to suffer because of it. I’d like for some delusional Muslims to get into the real world and stop blaming shadowy zionist conspiracies for the internal problems in Muslim counties. Any time Muslims come into conflict with infidels, there is a section of the population that plays it as another chapter in the underlying “crusade” against Islam. Even the 1991 war to eject the secular, fascist regime of Saddam Hussein from Kuwait was regarded as an attack on all Muslims. How blind can people be? Was the Kosovo war an attack on all Christians? Was the Vietnam war part of a long standing strategy to subjugate Buddhism?

    I know that you don’t support terrorism, ia, and I suspect that most Muslims actually agree with you. But I’ve come across many who are terrorist enablers because they buy into this bizarre unified theory of Muslim outrage, backing every nutcase regime and rebel group that happens to be Muslim, blind to any wrongdoing by Muslims in the world, simplifying every conflict to dar-al-Islam versus dar-al-harb. People who parrot this nonsense worldview also contribute to terror, even though most people who talk like this are also quick to say that they don’t support terrorism, that two wrongs don’t make a right. Because the atmosphere of victimhood and “us versus them” inevitably makes a market for those who want to strike back.

  67. says

    60+ comments of absolute rubbish. I really can’t understand some of the people here. You are never happy, all you want is ALL Muslims to suffer.

    Actually I’d quite like it if the whole idea of violent jihad was dropped and no Muslim or non-Muslim had to suffer because of it. I’d like for some delusional Muslims to get into the real world and stop blaming shadowy zionist conspiracies for the internal problems in Muslim counties. Any time Muslims come into conflict with infidels, there is a section of the population that plays it as another chapter in the underlying “crusade” against Islam. Even the 1991 war to eject the secular, fascist regime of Saddam Hussein from Kuwait was regarded as an attack on all Muslims. How blind can people be? Was the Kosovo war an attack on all Christians? Was the Vietnam war part of a long standing strategy to subjugate Buddhism?

    I know that you don’t support terrorism, ia, and I suspect that most Muslims actually agree with you. But I’ve come across many who are terrorist enablers because they buy into this bizarre unified theory of Muslim outrage, backing every nutcase regime and rebel group that happens to be Muslim, blind to any wrongdoing by Muslims in the world, simplifying every conflict to dar-al-Islam versus dar-al-harb. People who parrot this nonsense worldview also contribute to terror, even though most people who talk like this are also quick to say that they don’t support terrorism, that two wrongs don’t make a right. Because the atmosphere of victimhood and “us versus them” inevitably makes a market for those who want to strike back.

  68. says

    “If muslims simply prayed and lived their lives and even performed dawah, we would not hate you.”

    You are being unreasonable, how many out of the Muslim Ummah have committed terrorist attacks, your hate/fear is irrational.

    “You know what the qur’an says, don’t you? Of course you do. It really chaps you guys that we najis kaffirs can read your books, doesn’t it?”

    Not really, The Quran and Islamic Texts are available for all to see. Let those that are interested read them.

    _________________________________________________

    “When you go to mosque, do you hear sermons about da-al-harb? What are they saying? It is not a Muslim goal to conquer it?”

    Never have I heard a sermon like that. I have been to many different Mosques in my time. We are taught to be good, peaceful and tolerant human beings.

    Let me share one thing our Imam told us, this Khutbah nearly brought tears to my eyes. The Prophet stated that Abu Bakr (May Allah be pleased with him) had the greatest amount of faith, he was the most righteous. In Mecca, there was once an old lady that was blind. Umar Ibn Khattab (May Allah be pleased with him) visited the woman and found that her house was clean and in order, he was surprised as to how this was possible, now he asked the woman how she could do these things. The woman stated that a person would visit her everyday and clean her house, he would feed her and make sure that she was alright. The woman stated that she never knew who he was. Umar Ibn Khattab (May Allah be pleased with him) was surprised at this and decided to stay in a hidden place outside her home to see who this person was. Before the Fajr prayer, he saw Abu Bakr (May Allah be pleased with him) come to the old woman. He was carrying food. He came to the old woman’s house and helped her. It was then that Umar Ibn Khattab (May Allah be pleased with him) realised the righteousness of Abu Bakr Siddiq (May Allah be pleased with him), he realised he would never surpass him in righteousness and good deeds.

    I have never heard calls for violence and extremism in Mosques. I would even invite you to listen to the sermons. There are far too many misconceptions.

    “Why do so many Muslims refuse to assimilate?

    I would say most Muslims in the UK have assimilated, their are a few stubborn idiots though. I have accepted the British way of life, I accept and respect the laws and customs of Britain.

  69. says

    thomas. h

    There are no racist statements on their website because it is illegal, if they published what they really think the website would be closed down and the lawyers would be having a big pay day.

    ia786,

    Abu Bakr Siddiq would have made a better prophet I think. You will find acts of human kindness like this which is people related, I wonder what would have happened if this old blind women would have been Jewish?

    Assimilated, well some of those bombers had assimilated and then chose not to be… 52 dead and 700 injured later.

    Someone asked you if you want to have Sharia law in the UK, do you?

  70. says

    Daffersd
    I see the BNP failed to win the council seat from Labour in the Becontree Ward election yesterday. My local radio news just said Labour had an 800 majority, neither they nor the DBC website give any breakdown of figures.

    The BNP website is very appealing, very seductive, deliberately so to entice the unwary. Who could fail to be attracted by a picture of 3 blonde girls aged about 7/8/9 wearing St George T-shirts set against a background of our rugged coastline? I have posted this here before but I will say it again.

    If you lie down with dogs you get up with fleas.
    Some may feel they could cope with that in a good cause.
    But these BNP fleas carry bubonic plague.

  71. says

    There you go ia786, I told you that Muslims even lie to themselves, on the BBC website:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/4679289.stm

    “I really feel sorry for the victims and the related ones. I tried hard but couldn’t find out a word in Islam which teaches us to kill innocent people. If a Muslim was involved in this act, I don’t consider him/her a Muslim. Bilal Wahla, Lahore, Pakistan”

    Perhaps he has not read the Quran where the following verses would give him a very large clue:

    Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them.

    If the unbelievers do not offer you peace, kill them wherever you find them. Against such you are given clear warrant.

    Fight the disbelievers and hypocrites. Be harsh with them. They are all going to hell anyway.

    Don’t obey disbelievers.

    But if you’re willing to fight for Allah, he will provide you with lots of booty.

    A typical liar for Islam, but he will fail because us Westerners question everything, I would suggest that more and more people will be finding out the true nature of Islam in the UK.

  72. says

    Granny,

    I am so happy to hear that those racist scum failed to win Becontree Ward.

    I am worried that the more our government fails to listen to the people, the stronger the BNP will grow.

    That is how Hitler came to power he appealed to a population that was sick and tired of the Communist derived strife in Germany during the late 20’s and early 30’s.

  73. says

    Ok, so Granny Weatherwax is against the BNP and its proposals. So what are her suggestions then? What are the alternatives to the far right when every major political party promises dhimmitude and the cultural destruction of Britain, and does nothing but drone on while Rome burns about how great the barbarians are.

    Were the Viennese racist because they did not welcome the Ottoman Army assembled at their gates? Perhaps if the Ottomans knocked on the gate and said we just want to open kebab shops and mosques it would have been acceptable in the name on non-racism?

    I don’t think identifying and describing the racial components of the multicultural restructuring of established English society and customs makes those fighting against it racist.

    In fact genuine racists exist in great numbers among the imported population of Britain in the form of white no-go zones in parts of England and areas of France which everybody knows are off limits to non- Moslems. How do they get away with it?

    But forced multiculturism upon a people, with the intention of dismantling THEIR culture is one crime. The other, is clearly the fact that Muslims are using this most insulting, petty and merit-less label as a rhetorical bludgeon to silence all opposition to their objective of Islamifying Britain. But they are aided by the people in power, who are creating a future in Europe which will be rife with Islamic wars of one sort or another.

    You are bashing the few people with the courage of their convictions to take the gloves off and fight as dirty as the enemy, not as dirty as the enemy, I don’t hear of non-Moslems or BNP supporters these days strapping on bombs and killing people in the capitals of Europe.

    I think we need to start laughing at people when they start slinging the racist label. It really shows a great lack of intelligence when non-minorities, non-Muslims regurgitate a mantra designed to destroy them.

    Think about this the next time you hear somebody tossing off the racist label:

    George Orwell 1984:

    “A few agents of the thought Police moved always among them, spreading false rumours and marking down and eliminating the few individuals who were judged capable of becoming dangerous…”

  74. says

    Anthony,

    I have been called a Nazi and a racist by our resident troll Kintolerance, but my view on this is clear I do not agree with any negative attitude towards people due to them having a different colour skin.

    I do agree with being in conflict with an ideology that is against our own.

    I do not and never will support the BNP because they believe in racism based on colour of a persons skin no matter what they say. I happen to have a great respect for the Hindu people.

    We should make it very clear, a negative attitude to Islam is not racist, support for the BNP is racist.

    I don’t want them to fight dirty, I want our government to do what is right and beating up Muslims is so counter-productive and wrong.

    The enemy of my enemy is my friend, but the BNP is just as much my enemy as the Islamics are.

    Apart from the Muslims I think the UK society is great, racism is much reduced and really would be a great place apart from the Islamics who are screwing it up.

  75. says

    The great thing is that so many Muslims are confused, they really do like the UK and the multi-culturism, but with that comes an acceptence of being multi-cultural and the Islamic religion does not believe in that, so we have a very confused population, I look at the posts on the BBC website…

    I am Muslim. I am British. I am a Londoner. I am proud to be who I am, bombs will never change that.
    Zia Rahman, London, England

    He is a Mulsim first, so “Don’t obey disbelievers.” must cause you some conflict.

    Now if he had said the following,

    “I am British, I am a Londoner and I am a Muslim, I am proud to be who I am, bombs will never change that. Zia Rahman, London, England

    I might have given him some credit?

    I guess he is not confused, he is Muslim first, oh dear!!!

  76. says

    Daffersd

    You’re not making any sense, and you are engaging in code language and imagery without even realizing it.

    In effect, you have been programmed to conform to the official party line enabling, empowering and spreading, the very thing you presumably fear and loathe; Islamic hegemony over your/our Western way of life.

    I’m wary of the BNP but the people who support it are from all walks of British society and their grievance does not revolve around your over-simplistic statements, “skin colour” or “beating up Moslems,” it concerns reversing the trend leading to THEIR cultural annihilation, which can be perceived as a crime against humanity.

  77. says

    Anthony,

    I am not confused, I know what the West stands for and I know what Islam stands for.

    I repeat that judging someone on the colour of their skin is unacceptable, judging someone on what they think and do is acceptable.

    Yes those people supporting the BNP are joining the BNP because of their feelings about Islam, but the underlying issue is that they are involving themselves with an ideology that is based on hatred towards people based on the colour of their skin, they are mistaken.

    The issue is that because our leaders fail to deal with Islam, more and more people are having to join up with something that is wrong to get the point over.

    Islam is evil, so is racism.

  78. says

    Right on Daffersd.

    The BNP is the wrong party to support, but there DOES need to be some party to vote for.

    Why don’t people create the Anti-Islam Party?

    The British have 5 years to create such a party. Why not start now?

  79. says

    Daffersd/Voltaire

    How do you feel about immediate immigration reforms focusing specifically on halting Moslem immigration, and all immigration drastically?

    How do you feel about the removal of illegals-what ever their ethnic origin happens to be and mandatory English language proficiency requirements for all remaining immigrants to the UK?

    And here the real test, do you support all immigrants taking mandatory British culture education classes where they are required to learn the history, customs and heritage of Britain as part of a comprehensive plan to foster integration to the greater society?

    If these commonsense measures disturb your equilibrium, then you are a multiculturist and the future of the British people belongs to the most aggresive group with the highest birth rates.

  80. says

    Voltaire,

    I would put myself forward, but I have a 11 year old daughter and a 9 year old son and I want to be there for them. With the Islamics attitude for killing those that disagree with them it is a death sentence, Once my children have reached early adulthood then I would do it, but its not the right timescale, normally one says if only I was 10 years younger, in this case it is if only one was 10 years older.

    Anti-Islam, I don’t know if that is the way to put it, I would suggest that a party needs to be set up with the core values of defending our freedom and individual rights. I think that the people on the left will soon get the message and I think anti is a bit strong if you want to get a broad consensus which is what we need.

    Perhaps we can start though.

  81. says

    Anthony,

    How do you feel about immediate immigration reforms focusing specifically on halting Moslem immigration, and all immigration drastically?

    Answer: I would agree to an immediate block on all Muslim immigration. As for other immigration I see no need.

    How do you feel about the removal of illegals-what ever their ethnic origin happens to be and mandatory English language proficiency requirements for all remaining immigrants to the UK?

    Answer: I live in France and my French is appalling, but I can get by as I don’t require French for what I do, as far as I can see most of the illegals chose Britain because they have learnt a little English.

    I think that illegals should be removed, they broke the law.

    And here the real test, do you support all immigrants taking mandatory British culture education classes where they are required to learn the history, customs and heritage of Britain as part of a comprehensive plan to foster integration to the greater society?

    Answer: Yes

    If these commonsense measures disturb your equilibrium, then you are a multiculturist and the future of the British people belongs to the most aggresive group with the highest birth rates.

    Answer: I think our society is largely there in being quite enlightened, but we have one immigrant population under Islam that is fundementally against our culture based on what the Quran says.

    I would do what is necessary to remove Islam without betraying our core values of respect for law and individual rights (difficult that I know.)

  82. says

    Daffersd

    Then you are not as far gone as I orginially thought.

    Living in France, is their Moslem problem as bad as many say? Are their hordes, excuse me, that’s not PC…I mean “communities” of Moslems enforcing “Muslim only” areas?

    Au revoir.

  83. says

    Anthony,

    Look I understand what Islam is, but I will never judge someone on their colour of their skin.

    Well I have a Muslim neighbour who says good evening to me and I to him.

    I don’t live in the centre of a large city or in those areas. But I have come into contact in a minimal way with some of those Muslims from those areas and they are truely disgusting forms of human life, one tried to barge me to the side of the street, but had little success. And it can be bad, some areas are no-go for police and non-Muslims. They have this game where any Muslim female who becomes secular is gang raped or given a smiley, a cut from the lip to the ear.

    70% of the people in prison are Muslim, from what I have heard.

    The French authorities did an advertisment campaign couple years ago about gang rape, never gave the impression that it was Muslim orientated. etc.

    You tend to get certain areas which are as you say and then the majority of areas are OK, with one or two Muslim famillies who are very nice etc. and are not a problem.

    The thing is that the French really want to protect the secular state, so there may be more Muslims, but they are told in no uncertain terms that France is secular and that is that, Britain could learn a lot.

  84. says

    Daffersd,

    “There are no racist statements on their website because it is illegal, if they published what they really think the website would be closed down and the lawyers would be having a big pay day”

    Oh, so that explains it! They don’t mean what they say. Elementary!
    How silly of me to accept what BNP explicitly expresses instead of sounding your opinion first.

    But wait a sec! What if I now hear from BNP that what you are saying about them is not what you actually believe, but must say for fear of this, or fear of that?
    Do you see what I mean?

    So my problem is still the same and amounts to what I already said in my reply to TooBad:
    “…it is your word against their manifesto. Now, why should I believe the former and not the latter? Why should I accept your allegation that “they will expel Jews, black etc” if I can’t find even a hint of such program in their manifesto? Do you know something they don’t?”

  85. says

    thomas. h,

    Come now am I supposed to believe the manifesto of a political party, especially one living on the edge of the law, as they are.

    I don’t believe the manifesto of any political party.

    Can you imagine a Muslim admitting that what is written in the Quran is exactly how he thinks 😉

    But you certainly made me laugh with your second paragraph.

    Anyway, I still don’t have a problem respecting another culture that deserves respect…

  86. says

    I suppose that I see it as keeping your own culture and improving it with other cultures.

    Example, changing the British culture of drinking to the French culture of drinking.

    I know a lot of Western people who follow a type of Bhuddist approach to their lives and that benefits our culture as they are more at peace.

    Indian cusine for example, the Brits have a culture of eating perhaps the best curries in the world.

    I think allowing part of another culture is OK as long as that culture does not impact on our own culture.

    I am completely against what is happening now where a malignent third world (actually fourth world) culture is actively trying to subvert our own tolerant and enlightened culture.

    At this point I don’t feel very tolerant.

  87. says

    Question for IA786:
    Why do you spend nearly all your time and energy trying to stop and obfuscate the free discourse at this site as we uncover the myriad plots and deceptions the Muslims have been perpetrating on the West? If your words are to have any meaning, you should be expending your energies cleansing the terrorist filth and the ideology I KNOW YOU’VE HEARD FIRST HAND out of Islam and the Mosques!!! Trouble is, the miniscule number of Muslims who really don’t want to see their religion go down the shitter (I’m not sure you’re one of them…) are spending all their time criticizing the non-Muslims who are just starting to wake up to the threat. They and their apologist friends either want us to come into the Islamic dysfunctional family and fix it by supporting this or that version of the religion, (Stephen Schwartz, Bernard Lewis, Reuel Gerecht, George Bush, Tony Blair come to mind) or they are clamoring for ‘more understanding’ and an end to ‘Islamophobia’ as if those things have anything to do with your terrorist brethren’s religiously motivated actions…

    In short, why are you barking up the wrong tree to fix the deplorable state of your broken religion????

  88. says

    What’s with this interest in the BNP???

    Did you know what happened after 9/11. I wasn’t at uni then, in my area the BNP sent many people down. They sent vans full of thugs. These people went around in groups and beat any one with brown skin. I know a few people that were beaten up. There were about 90 of them. They ripped hijabs off women in the street, they spat at women and pushed them over. They even came just outside my house, this was late in the night and they attempted to beat a friend of mines with a baseball bat. They are nothing but racist bast ards. There was alot of fighting between Asian (including Sikhs (not sure about Hindus) many Black people also joined in. Mosques were attacked.

    You should know that they only attacked Muslims that were on their own or in smaller groups. When we Asians got organised they left.

    The police did all they could do protect us Asians.

  89. says

    “Apart from the Muslims I think the UK society is great, racism is much reduced and really would be a great place apart from the Islamics who are screwing it up.”

    Are you British???

  90. says

    “Why don’t people create the Anti-Islam Party?

    The British have 5 years to create such a party. Why not start now?”

    ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

  91. says

    “But I have come into contact in a minimal way with some of those Muslims from those areas and they are truely disgusting forms of human life, one tried to barge me to the side of the street, but had little success. And it can be bad, some areas are no-go for police and non-Muslims. They have this game where any Muslim female who becomes secular is gang raped or given a smiley, a cut from the lip to the ear.”

    ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

  92. says

    “I am completely against what is happening now where a malignent third world (actually fourth world) culture is actively trying to subvert our own tolerant and enlightened culture.”

    Please explain.

  93. says

    “Why do you spend nearly all your time and energy trying to stop and obfuscate the free discourse at this site as we uncover the myriad plots and deceptions the Muslims have been perpetrating on the West?”

    I returned to this site as I feel it is my duty as a British Muslim.

    I don’t spend that much time here. I don’t try to stop and obfuscate the discourse here. Some people here go on and on about the same thing, over and over and over. When it comes down to it your hate of Muslims and Islam is wrong. Many of the people here that avoid the real issues.

    You understanding of Islam is wrong. Blair, Howard, Police officers, many different people have asked people not to attack and hate ALL Muslims because of the actions of a few, why does this cause you to become angry. Do you want the BNP in power???

    Behind alot of the comments here I sense a very deep hatred of Muslims and Islam. This is always here, many here try to blur the line between fanatics and moderates, may I add unsuccessfully. I think some people here have poisonous views, absolute hate. Some here attempt to hijack world events in order to attack all Muslims and Islam. The simple thing is that some people here wish to make my life harder, people here wish to harm me and my family. People here want bad things to happen to me, what do you expect me to do? What would you do???

    How many here would support making Muslims more distinguishable from Non-Muslims, how many here have stated that Islam should be made harder to follow. We have had calls for Muslims to be deported, even British born Muslims. We have had calls for Mosques to be demolished. Next we may here about how camps should be made, how Muslims should be isolated. When I think about it, I see the similarities to how the Germans began to discriminate against ALL the Jewish people. What do you expect me to do???

    I believe that in the UK fanatics will now be exposed more openly, I am happy with this development. Distinctions are being made, this will help all the people in the UK. Hopefully we will be a light to the rest of the World. It is up to the Muslims now, the ball is in our court, I will do all I can.

    “If your words are to have any meaning, you should be expending your energies cleansing the terrorist filth and the ideology I KNOW YOU’VE HEARD FIRST HAND out of Islam and the Mosques!!!”

    You don’t know what I have heard from the Mosques and Imams. You are making silly assumptions. You view on Islam and Muslims in wrong. Plain wrong.

    “Trouble is, the miniscule number of Muslims who really don’t want to see their religion go down the shitter (I’m not sure you’re one of them…) are spending all their time criticizing the non-Muslims who are just starting to wake up to the threat.”

    When have I criticised the Non-Muslims for what happened on 7/7. What happened was tragic and appalling, at least now we know more about the threat. Don’t forget that Muslims like me are targets too, Bombs don’t distinguish between people of different faiths. Had my Brother decided to go to London earlier he could have died too. Muslims were killed in the attacks as well.

    I have nothing to hide, The Quran is there for everyone. Islam is there for everyone. The Moderates are different to the fanatics, you keep forgetting this.

    “In short, why are you barking up the wrong tree to fix the deplorable state of your broken religion????”

    I believe what I am doing is right. The fanatical sects have been exposed by the Muslim leaders, and top politicians. This is a positive step yet you don’t feel happy. The fanatical elements will be exposed, I am sure of it. Attention is being drawn to the many camps in Pakistan, maybe the Wahabi word will be used soon. That I believe would be a good step.

    It is my duty as a good Muslim to oppose and combat extremism. Inshallah I will be able to help.

    Prince Charles: True Muslims must root out the extremists.

    Ali(ra)
    “All acts of extremism are acts of Ignorance.”

  94. says

    Dear la786:
    Clear signs of barbarity in Islam and the revolting habits of Muslims which prove the lowness of their culture:

    Gouging out eyes, as recently sanctioned by Sharia courts in Pakistan, chopping off of hands, feet, heads, as regularly sanctioned and practiced by Sharia courts throughout Islam, stoning to death for ‘capital crimes’ such as homosexuality, sodomy, apostacy, prostitution, and defamation of Islam as Muslims across the world embrace, murder of non-Muslims as is often called for by Muslim ‘religious’ leaders across the globe, approval of UBL’s 9/11 atrocity across the Muslim world (with approval sometimes reaching above 80% in certain nations…) Muslim habits of clitoris mutilation, Muslim habits of honor killings, Muslim incitement to murder and mayhem by the priestly class in Islam, Muslim’s puerile preoccupation with base matters such as feces, urine, bodily exudate, fingernail clippings, whether it is allowed to cut hair or not cut hair (even down to regular questions to the Imams about the disposition of pubic hair according to Islamic law… I’m not making this stuff up!!!), whether it is allowed to pray after one has cut hair and forgotten to wash…

    Must I go on? I already know far too much about this filthy ideology…

  95. says

    la786:
    I posted the above thread prior to reading your response to me Don’t you dare to compare our awakening to Islam’s hatred for ‘infidels’ to the leadup to Nazism. This is EXACTLY the kind of insidious canard that’s marginalizing you utterly, and making it impossible for people here to listen to your comments…

    I’d be worried if I were you too — Islam has now begun to wake up some very dangerous things, not least of which is America’s willingness to UTTERLY DESTROY our enemies if we are forced. Being dangerous doesn’t make us bad — If you prove undeterrable, we have the ways and means to DESTROY YOU — MAKE NO MISTAKE… I have said elsewhere, the last time our nation encountered a culture of suicidal murderers who proved to be unterrable, we thought long and hard, but ultimately decided with equanimity to ANNIHILATE their ideology by killing vast swaths of them… including dropping nuclear bombs…

    Let the comments you see from some serve as fair warnings — ISLAM must reform itself — it’s not our job to be your babysitters — Its derelict for you to aver that we are somehow required to put up with the inimical attitudes of many Muslims, with Islamic sedition, or to endure and tolerate its replete intolerance…

    How much fairer can we be to you but to warn you:
    REFORM OR BE DESTROYED

    You are barking up the wrong tree buddy — if you’re genuine, your energies will be far better spent talking to your more radical ‘friends’ I’m certain you have many who embrace the destruction of the West — If you deny it, I know you are a liar…
    — I still wonder what you’re doing to root out the extremists from your midst — we won’t wait forever!

  96. says

    Dafersd,

    “Come now am I supposed to believe the manifesto of a political party, especially one living on the edge of the law, as they are.”

    ???? I beg your pardon?
    Where exactly do I say you are “supposed to believe” anything? Please, read my mails before replying to them.
    It is YOU who, in effect, are saying I should disbelieve BNP, yet you are unable to present one rational argument beyond a few allegations. You, obviously, don’t have anything concrete.

    You say you “don’t believe the manifesto of any political party”? Well, good for YOU, but why do you think that fact is somehow sufficient to persuade anyone to change his opinion?

    Anyway, good weekend to you.

  97. says

    “Don’t you dare to compare our awakening to Islam’s hatred for ‘infidels’ to the leadup to Nazism. This is EXACTLY the kind of insidious canard that’s marginalizing you utterly, and making it impossible for people here to listen to your comments…”

    I have only stated this now, this is after I read King Tolerance’s posts. You choose to ignore the things that I say as you hate Muslims and Islam.

    If your comments and thoughts are similar to that of the Nazis, I will say so. From the time here I have seen that is the case. So I will say it. Your views and ideas on how to deal with Muslims is very close to how the Nazis dealt with the Jews.

    “I’d be worried if I were you too — Islam has now begun to wake up some very dangerous things, not least of which is America’s willingness to UTTERLY DESTROY our enemies if we are forced.”

    I am not afraid, I am never worried. God is the protector of Islam. Destory the terrorists if you want, go for it. I would support that. You’re not referring to all Muslims are you???

    “Being dangerous doesn’t make us bad — If you prove undeterrable, we have the ways and means to DESTROY YOU — MAKE NO MISTAKE”

    So this is anti Muslim and Anti Islam. You wish to see me destroyed, well at least you are honest.

    “the last time our nation encountered a culture of suicidal murderers who proved to be unterrable, we thought long and hard, but ultimately decided with equanimity to ANNIHILATE their ideology by killing vast swaths of them… including dropping nuclear bombs…”

    You threaten Muslims with nukes now, that is very nice. Charming. You are a madman.

    “How much fairer can we be to you but to warn you:
    REFORM OR BE DESTROYED”

    Destroyed by who????

    Reform??? Prince Charles, Tony Blair and many Muslim leaders have said they will expose extremism, I will join that group. Is that not good enough, you still want us destroyed.

    What do you mean by an Islamic reformation, do you mean the dismantling of Islam???

    “You are barking up the wrong tree buddy — if you’re genuine, your energies will be far better spent talking to your more radical ‘friends’ I’m certain you have many who embrace the destruction of the West — If you deny it, I know you are a liar…
    — I still wonder what you’re doing to root out the extremists from your midst — we won’t wait forever”

    I do speak to radicals, I don’t consider them friends, they are confused idiots. You really need to stop making silly assumptions.

    There are two extremes in this case, the radicals and then we have the people like you, the Islamophobes, extremism (including yours) is wrong.

  98. says

    “What a waste.

    60+ comments of absolute rubbish. I really can’t understand some of the people here. You are never happy, all you want is ALL Muslims to suffer.”

    No ia786, most people here have no desire to see All muslisms suffer, want we want to see is some progress being made by muslims to respect other cultures and peoples, something the historical record shows that it (islam) doesn’t in practice. As far as the theory is concerned islam is a genocidal cult and it is dogmatically unreformable.

    That’s the point of the 60 odd posts. If this cultural out-reach program would have any chance of sucess I, as would many others here would support it wholeheartedly, but it doesn’t. Fouteen hundred years of history shows us this, most people wouldn’t dream of following Mohammed’s vile example, but after being acquainted with the qu’ran, sira and hadith many muslims leave islam, others, yes admittedly a few do not and go on to emulate his barbarity. Just because it’s a few who practice the true islam doesn’t mean we are under any obligation to tolerate this, what ever the price or how drastic the measures may be need to be taken.

    In short islam needs to cross the intellectual divide, not the ‘cultural’ one.

    JV

  99. says

    I’ve the above posting without reading the arrant nonsense spouted from jsla –

    “equanimity to ANNIHILATE their ideology by killing vast swaths of them… including dropping nuclear bombs…”

    Jsla, you can’t kill an ideology with violence, if you go down that path then be prepared to follow it to it’s final logical conclusion, or should I say ‘final solution’. That kind of talk does this site no justice and harms our mission.

    Lord Jenkins (he wasn’t BNP!) in the wake of the Rushdie affair stated that it was a mistake to allow muslims into our countries. Many of us now know this, put your anger aside and think logically, most intelligent people would use a key to open a door, not a battering ram.

    More importantly, all methods may fail and truely drastics ones may need to be taken (Montenegrin Vespers as an example 1707, some sources state 1709), but for us to be united as kafirs in this we need to have tried everything for peace, this is VITAL.

    JV

  100. says

    Thanks for your response, la786 —

    Most telling — “I do speak to radicals, I don’t consider them friends, they are ‘confused idiots…’ ” Thanks for not befriending them, my friend…but

    THESE ARE ENEMIES — I wonder how many of these “confused idiots” you reported to the authorities prior to 7/7? Didn’t think that was your job? How many after 7/7? Do you know what they may be planning? What if they’re involved with the next terrorist atrocity? Still don’t think it’s your job? Guess again…

    See the point? It’s obvious by your own words that supposedly ‘moderate’ Muslims such as yourself have done little or nothing to help your adopted society identify, or your Islamic community cleanse itself of these dangerous and seditious traitors. When you call them “confused idiots” our sense that you don’t even recognize the GENUINE threat they pose to non-Muslims such as myself is validated. Thanks for admitting that your community harbors such dangerous menace in its midst. Thank you for not denying their essential “Muslimness.” No one would be fooled. I only hope you begin to grasp that these vermin will force us to treat ALL MUSLIMS with appropriate suspicion since you have failed so miserably to police your own community… Like I said in the post above, what makes Muslims imagine that we are to be their babysitters, or play guess-who-has-the-bomb-belt this Friday at prayers…?

    Label me as you will, it has little effect — The label of “Islamophobe” holds no special meaning for me — If you mean I am worried about what Islam is up to — GUILTY… And your point is… ? You’ll find few Americans are affected by trotting out little PC gems like “Islamophobe” I don’t care what little games you engage in to deflect the topic at hand! It’ll take alot more than empty words to convince me Muslims are doing enough to eradicate terror promulgation in your mosques, and reforming your religion (if it’s even possible) to stop it from being the petri dish in which the bacteria of bigotry, intolerance, hatred, and terrorism grow… Just some sober and honest thoughts which you may not often hear, and I hardly think I am alone.

    By the way, I never said I want all Muslims destroyed. If you understand my apt example of WW2, our intention was never to wipe out the Japanese and Germans — our actions proved necessary in order to wipe out their poisonous ideologies… And we had to KILL LOTS AND LOTS of them before they got the message. You can talk past my points if you wish — it accomplishes nothing…

    I will state it a different way for you: If Islamic transgressions such as 9/11 continue or escalate, the fury you will have unleashed is unimaginable. If push comes to shove, you will learn we will SHOVE. The Muslim community can either believe it and act in its true self interest, or it may continue in the manner we have seen so far, harboring jihadists, supporting overtly and covertly their actions, and embracing a form of religion which has become the scourge of the planet. If that’s the path you choose, Muslims will truly find out the hard way whether I am right, or just full of hot air…

  101. says

    So many here willing to accept that Islam is a mortal threat to the immediate future of the west and yet still construe anyone proposing real solutions as racists.

    That must well please Moslems, who are not shackled by our empty “multicultural celebration” of the nearly non-existent integration and assimilation of British immigrants.

    Moslems operate according to the assumption that their privileged position in society (as a precursor to dhimmitude) will soon lead to them achieving the means to alter western societies forever, i.e., implement Islamic rule (shari’a) over YOU, while YOU (liberal) offer shelter and comfort to the ideology of liberalism and cult of multiculturism which is proving deadly, by reducing all arguments on the issue to (sniffle) “racism.”

    And the many liberal leaning, wishy-washy fools here starting with “TooBad”, sit around the computer typing how tolerant they are (as if others are not) and how the BNP is evil, more evil it seems for their desire simply to have England back the way it way for thousands of years, than the criminal unjust laws created by the British government to FORCE an entire nation people living according to their traditional historic norms, into extinction.

    As I’ve said above, just read the plight of the average British citizen living in Leeds, Bradford, Staines, Oldham, London, etc., etc., who post their daily experiences to the BNP website. Many who say that as normal citizens, they simply want something done about the theft of their country and the non-stop violence and danger their government has placed them in by the crazy unstoppable importation of minorities far in excess of what could be remotely considered sane immigration and humanitarian policies.

    They also see that their culture and heritage and national identity is being systematically erased by daily multicultural propaganda and endless racial legislation designed to marginalize the majority white British population–THAT is the real crime and YOU sit around and complain that someone is worried about “the color of somebody’s skin,” ignoring the fact that the overwhelming majority of minority immigration to the UK is Islamic, the very thing YOU are against.

    Hypocrites!

    That tells me many who profess to be defenders of the West are actually a part of the resistance against anti-multiculturalism (the engine of Islamism) and a clueless pawn of the Islamification and third worldizaition of the West.

  102. says

    have the islamic trolls screaming that jw posters are all nazis and a bnp supporter screaming because we are not nazis – so we must be doing something right ???

  103. says

    ia786,

    You know I am British, I told you that before, born in Yorkshire too and not that far from where these killers were living.

    I saw a big change from the 70’s to 2001 in the UK in regards to a huge reduction in racism.

    ia786, you have obviously not visited a French Muslim controlled area, don’t you will most probably get hurt, these people have all the bad from Islam and none of what little good there is.

    If girls from Muslim famillies dress like the French, they are either gang raped or given the smiley cut, nice aren’t they, one was even set on fire after she had been gang-raped.

    This religious hate law is an example of what I say, we spent hundreds of years developing the freedom to be able to talk freely and along comes Islam and our freedom of speach is destroyed, because your people can not defend your religion in speach, only in VIOLENCE and killing because that is what is written in the QURAN. Do you understand?

    As for women, your culture oppreses women. A man can have a temporary marriage and have four wives, a slave girl and a women? My wife works, she can say what she thinks she makes her own decisions, she has freedom.

    I have no desire to see Muslims suffer or be killed, but Islam is an evil cult that wants to control what I do and think and that is why it is not something that I can accept.

    I suggested that you go to faithfreedom, and you could do is declare yourself as Saladin in a stupid challenge.

    Did you see the speach in the Leeds mosque? That says it all…

  104. says

    “If girls from Muslim famillies dress like the French, they are either gang raped or given the smiley cut, nice aren’t they, one was even set on fire after she had been gang-raped.”

    Really???

    I think you maybe exaggerating. Islam doesn’t allow this sort of behaviour.

    “This religious hate law is an example of what I say, we spent hundreds of years developing the freedom to be able to talk freely and along comes Islam and our freedom of speach is destroyed, because your people can not defend your religion in speach, only in VIOLENCE and killing because that is what is written in the QURAN. Do you understand?”

    I will admit that I don’t know much about this religious hate law, I should though. I put my trust in the Muslim MPs and other Muslim leaders, I put my trust in the politicians that have helped us Muslims in difficult times. You wish to discuss Islam, go ahead and do so. Talk to the scholars, ask them as many questions as you wish.

    What you have to understand is that there are people out there that wish to provoke Muslims, that wish to hurt Muslims. We have no protection from these people. I have talked to people about these issues, I have heard what alot of Anti-Islam people think. All they are worried about is how they can’t mock and attack Islam. Alot of the ‘criticism’ is not about constructive debate, its about how one cannot attack Islam.

    For example, I was disgusted at the things that Robert Kilroy Silk said in his articles. We Muslims are a soft target, there are some fringe elements that wish to harm us all, lets target them.

    “As for women, your culture oppreses women. A man can have a temporary marriage and have four wives, a slave girl and a women? My wife works, she can say what she thinks she makes her own decisions, she has freedom.”

    Only Shiah people believe in temporary marriages, Sunnis reject this idea completely. Yes, A Muslim can have four wives. No Slave girls, that is not allowed as stated by the Scholars and Awliyah. I know Muslim women that work, they make their own decisions. Muslim women have the right to refuse to marry someone, they cannot be forced into a marriage, the Prophet has completely rejected this.

    “I have no desire to see Muslims suffer or be killed, but Islam is an evil cult that wants to control what I do and think and that is why it is not something that I can accept.”

    Please explain.

  105. says

    Yes really. They were Muslim girls who did not follow the tenents of Islam, so some people decied that they should be punished and of course they were judge, jury and executioners in one, something that your religion gives free reign to.

    The Quran is the centre of the Muslim religion, I have understood abrogation, I will make my own mind up.

    And of course because we don’t surrender to Allah we are fair game to many of your co-religionists.

    I would refer to the incident in Basra where people having a picnic where brutalized by Sadr’s followers, there was Christian women who were beaten and stripped naked, for daring to have a picnic and listening to music. These are freedoms I take for granted, I don’t want some self-rightous berk stripping my daughter naked and beating her up because she was listening to music with friends in a park in London.

    And there is the crux of it, I am not surrendering to Islam, I have rights and freedoms, Islam wants to control me, that I do not accept.

    That is why OBL is attacking the West.