My old pal Ibrahim Hooper complains in this article: "It's one of the things we still hear: 'Why won't Muslims condemn terrorism?' When I go on a radio talk show, that is the first thing that I hear. That's just not true. Muslims - not only CAIR but all the groups - have been condemning terrorism for years. Some people just don't want to hear it."
He's right, you know. I often get asked the same thing myself, and I tell the questioners the same thing Hooper does: they have condemned terrorism. Again and again. However, it is time to recognize that condemnations are no longer enough, if they ever were. We must remember that the Global Relief Foundation, which has now been shut down for allegedly funding terror, had a ringing condemnation of 9/11 on its website. We must remember that the recently-arrested Lodi imams participated in peace rallies with Christians and Jews after 9/11. We must remember that Arafat frequently condemned terror attacks. These and other examples of insincerity don't of themselves lead to the conclusion that every other Muslim group that condemns terror is being insincere also, but they underscore the need for their words to be backed up with deeds.
"Hoping to be heard this time," from Newsday, with thanks to The One Who Must Not Be Named:
It was one of the ugliest myths of 9/11, repeated so many times some people actually started to believe it.The myth was that large numbers of American Muslims danced and cheered when the planes hit the towers, celebrating a vicious attack on innocent civilians as some kind of twisted victory for Islam.
This was always a lie.
Oh, sure, a couple of knuckleheads here and there might have clowned for a TV camera. And every group has its evil zealots on the fringe. But they didn't speak for the vast majority of American Muslims any more than Eric Rudolph, the Olympic Park bomber and Christian Identity nut-job, speaks for American Christians....
Say, speaking of moral equivalence and vicious, damaging slanders, did you happen to catch this from a recent letter written by Eric Rudolph? (Thanks to Relapsed Catholic).
"Many good people continue to send me money and books," Rudolph writes in an undated letter. "Most of them have, of course, an agenda; mostly born-again Christians looking to save my soul. I suppose the assumption is made that because I'm in here I must be a 'sinner' in need of salvation, and they would be glad to sell me a ticket to heaven, hawking this salvation like peanuts at a ballgame. I do appreciate their charity, but I could really do without the condescension. They have been so nice I would hate to break it to them that I really prefer Nietzsche to the Bible."
Yet I still get email minimizing Islamic jihad violence on the grounds that this man was a Christian. But Newsday doesn't bother to go beneath the surface in this report on Muslims either. No mention is made of the CAIR officials arrested on terror-related charges, or of CAIR's Nihad Awad's statements supporting Hamas, etc. etc.:
I'm like a lot of people here, I guess. I can't get to work in the morning without having at least casual contact with a Muslim or six, starting with the Pakistani guy at the newsstand and the Syrian woman at the coffee place.And I'm pretty sure neither one of them wants to see me incinerated on the No. 6 train platform.
Do you, Mohammed?
I hope not, Hala!
Good.
Militant jihadists have struck again, in London this time - and the sweeping generalizations are about to erupt again.
Or are they?
Having learned a few lessons from last time, American Muslim leaders sprang into action Thursday morning, putting out loud and clear denunciations of the latest terror attacks. No words were minced.
The Council on American-Islamic Relations, the Muslim Public Affairs Council, the Muslim American Society and the Islamic Association of North America - every major group had put a statement out by the time their leaders headed to their mosques on Friday afternoon.
And it wasn't just the big, national groups. They were joined by the Islamic Association of North Texas, the American Moslem Society of Dearborn, Mich., and just about every group with a letterhead and an M in its name.
"We join Americans of all faiths, and all people of conscience worldwide, in condemning these barbaric crimes that can never be justified or excused," the Council on American-Islamic Relations declared.
"Our condemnations are universal and unequivocal," said the Arab-American Forum.
"Attacking civilians who are going about their daily business is a criminal act that violates Islamic principles, and must be condemned by all Muslims," said the Islamic Society of North America.
On Friday before prayer services, leaders of the major groups met with David Manning, the British ambassador in Washington, offering their formal condolences to the victims and their families. Let there be no mistake how American Muslims feel.
So, will they be heard? Ibrahim Hooper certainly hopes so.
As communications director of the Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations, he drafted the condemnation statement immediately after 9/11. It was published, among other places, as a full-page ad in The Washington Post. Then, Hooper spent the next three-plus years hearing angry talk that Muslims hadn't spoken out.
"It's one of the things we still hear: 'Why won't Muslims condemn terrorism?'" he was saying at week's end.
"When I go on a radio talk show, that is the first thing that I hear. That's just not true. Muslims - not only CAIR but all the groups - have been condemning terrorism for years. Some people just don't want to hear it."
So Muslims have to keep trying, he said. "Whenever we have the opportunity, we'll say it again. 'We denounce it. We denounce it.' We are hoping to be heard this time."
Great. I trust we will soon see a concerted effort among American Muslims to root out adherents of the jihadist ideology from among them. But I am not holding my breath.
This thread's title 'US Muslims condemn terror' is, IMO, misnamed.
It should read "US Muslim ADVOCACY GROUPS condemn terror'.
When I see thousands of (everyday, average, moderate, hard-working, etc.) individual Muslims publicly condemning terror, on the 'American Street', then this thread's title will be valid.
Until then, it isn't.
As soon as I get up, I'm going to condemn terrorism, then I'm going back to bed...but never fear, I will announce it LOUDLY...But I am not going to DO anything about it, and I am not about to condemn any aspect of my religion, or my religious books, that encourage terrorism, or even demand it. That is asking too much...
Muslim apologists in the United States "condemn" terrorism.
That is a more accurate title. That points our minds in the right direction.
CAIR shouldn't be given the time of day by the MSM. They have much more to answer for than terrorism, such as their desire to implement an Islamic government in the United States while making sure that Islam is the "only accepted religion on earth."
If they condemn anyone, they should begin by condemning themselves.
"Words! Words! I'm so sick of words!
I get words all day through;
First from him, now from you! Is that all you blighters can do?"
---- Eliza Doolittle
As Eliza said, instead of TELLING what they will do, they need to SHOW US. Show us by informing, by rounding up, by turning in, by firing extremist imams and, if appropriate, assist in their deportation, by not giving zakat to organizations that use the money to finance jihad. American Muslims can SHOW US by conforming to U.S. laws and customs, by assimilation, and by being sensitive to the wants and needs of non-Muslims, which they aren't, by not insisting on unfair religious and cultural accommodation that does inconvenience and annoy non-Muslims.
After all, most Muslims are newcomers to this country and in most parts of the West. They are are small proportion of the total population. Accommodations of these kinds and insensitivies are not realistic and are the main reasons for the distrust and dislike of Muslims and Islam as Westerners have discovered that under a Muslim system, they will become subservient to Islam and Muslims regardless of their superior numbers.
Which "Islamic principles" would those be? Let's have chapter and verse from Koran, hadith and Sira. Then let's have a bake-off between those verses from the Islamic canon and verses that enjoin the faithful to perpetrate acts of violence and oppression on non-Muslims, Jews, Christians, Buddhists, polytheists, women, etc.
That is what the legions of jihadis, their religious "scholars" and the millions who support them have done. Today and for nearly 14 centuries before us, they have demonstrated with their action, not their words, that violent jihad conquest is not only acceptable, it is obligatory. So to all the closet Muslim "moderates" out there, we unambiguously and explicitly challenge you to produce the Islamic legal basis for a complete and utter repudiation and abandonment of the doctrines of jihad, dhimmitude and misogyny. Anyone?
And why would they condemn it? Guidelines for Muslim PR hacks are full of tactics to deflect blame directed at the canon and endlessly address "backlash" from the societies that their jihadi "martyrs" are attacking. We in the non-Muslim world do not have any concrete evidence before us that suggests that the Muslim community is interested in the welfare of the non-Muslims, they are only interested in preserving themselves. Convince us that these condemnations are not motivated by a sense that the time is not right for these acts of terrorism according to the grand plan: da'wa, hejira, jihad on the "near" enemy, and finally jihad on the "far" enemy", repeat at da'wa.
"We condemn all acts of terrorism by the Jews."
Ever see the movie Mars Attacks?
I just saw a program called "London Under Attack". On it there was this bombing survivor on his way home. He passed a mosque and with the cameras all on the cleric or whatever let him in for a breather, tea whatever. Afterwards the victim got in a car and went home. On the way he said something along the general lines of...well, I was just let into a mosque after being bombed and the muslims were real nice. So all this violence isn't a mainstream islamic thing. All religions have their extremists.
I feel for the guy but I can't agree completely with his opinion.
Dr. Mesapc: "There is no reason to think their intentions are hostile."
*BOOM* *BOOM* *BOOM*
*SOUNDS OF SCREAMS* *HEAD ROLLS BY*
Martian #1: "ACK, ACK. We condemn terrorism in all its forms."
Martian #2: "ACK, ACK. Jihad is a peaceful internal struggle."
*BOOM*
...if I ever witness the same passionate gathering of Islamic men and women damning acts of terrorism as I see when the Koran is desecrated, then I will believe that the heart and soul Islam is one of peace. A day should not pass in this world when, somewhere, a group of Muslims gather in anger and curse the Bin Ladens of the world.
Words are not enough. Imagine the impact it would have if Muslim communities around the world coordinated a day of fervent protests condemning terrorism and calling for the death of terrorists - or at least the condemnation. And I am not talking about the type of rallies we saw in Iraq when Saddam Hussein was in power. I am talking about the frothing at the mouth, screaming, jumping, crazed type of protest that the Muslim street is capable of doing. You can't fake that.
from Lump on a Blog
I think the program was by Panorama. I guess my point is that getting any kind of theological analysis of all this terrorism on tv is like getting blood out of a stone.
What did he say?
http://www.pitt.edu/~wbcurry/nietzsche.html
Christianity as antiquity.-- When we hear the ancient bells growling on a Sunday morning we ask ourselves: Is it really possible! This, for a jew, crucified two thousand years ago, who said he was God's son? The proof of such a claim is lacking. Certainly the Christian religion is an antiquity projected into our times from remote prehistory; and the fact that the claim is believed - whereas one is otherwise so strict in examining pretensions - is perhaps the most ancient piece of this heritage. A god who begets children with a mortal woman; a sage who bids men work no more, have no more courts, but look for the signs of the impending end of the world; a justice that accepts the innocent as a vicarious sacrifice; someone who orders his disciples to drink his blood; prayers for miraculous interventions; sins perpetrated against a god, atoned for by a god; fear of a beyond to which death is the portal; the form of the cross as a symbol in a time that no longer knows the function and ignominy of the cross -- how ghoulishly all this touches us, as if from the tomb of a primeval past! Can one believe that such things are still believed?
from Nietzsche's Human, all too Human, s.405, R.J. Hollingdale transl
ANOTHER MYTH BROKEN??
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/nietzsche/#5
5. Final Writings of 1888
In The Antichrist, Curse on Christianity (Der Antichrist. Fluch auf das Christentum, September 1888), Nietzsche expresses his disgust over the way noble values in Roman Society were "corrupted" by the rise of Christianity, and he discusses specific aspects and personages in Christian culture -- the Gospels, Paul, the martyrs, priests, the crusades -- with a view towards showing that Christianity is a religion for weak and unhealthy people, whose general historical effect has been to undermine the healthy qualities of the more noble cultures.
Then we look what was going on in 1888??
http://www.zum.de/psm/rta/doa28.php
Reichstagsakten 1888/89, 7. Lp., Vol. 121, Attachment 41: Collection of Documents pertaining the Uprising in East Africa, No. 28: Directive to the Imperial ambassador in London
Friedrichsruh, October 28th 1888
It is to be desired that our agreement with England on fighting the slave trade and the import of weapons to East Africa will have the shape of an international agreement. Such a document would establish limits for the expansion of the continued expansion of the Muslim and slave trading movement, by the moral impression by the accord of the two European powers so far engaged there, and also, more propably, will lead to the cooperation of the other European states engaged. I propose the exchange of notifications between us and Britain, in which we take upon ourselves the obligation, under the condition (p.412) on an equal participation of Britain for the same purpose, to fight the anti-Christian and anti-civilizatoric movement which has emerged over the last years on the African continent, and to recognize the prohibition of the export of slaves and the import of arms and ammunition as the most effective means, as it is only the possession of superior arms ans ammunitions which enables the Arab and Muslim minority to undertake slave hunts and wars necessary to obtain slaves, and to keep up the superiority of their race in Africa's interior.
The slave trade and the initiative Britain has taken to combat it, have been origin and incentive to the union of all elements interested in the matter, and which have made it possible to use Muslim fanaticism in the interest of this over one thousand years old tradition of African slave trade and to call on them for war. The effects of this movement, large and small, can be seen in the positions of the Mahdi, of Tippu Tip and in the rising number of murders of Europeans in Africa's interior. To transfer christianity and European civilization to Africa by armed force is not feasible because of the width of the country and of the climate. The indigenous population would be susceptible to the European efforts if it was not suppressed by the force of arms, the higher intelligence and the
cohesion of the Arab Muslims. We could outmatch the latter only, if we strike at the source of their superiority, superior armament and the realisation of their profits, by the suppression of the import of arms and the export of slaves.
Therefore I regard it a task no Christian nation should exclude itself from, to interrupt as far as possible the import of weapons and ammunition to Africa's interior and the export of slaves. This task shall be mainly taken care of by the two powers most interested in the Sultanate of Zanzibar, Germany and Britain; but to its complete solution it is recommended, to, soon, gain the cooperation of the neighbouring Portuguese government and of His Majesty the King of Belgium for the Congo Free State. It is also recommended to kindly ask the French government for their cooperation, in order to prevent arms import into the Congo area and in order to end the abuse of the French flag in East Africa by Arab dhows.
Your Excellency will request Lord Salisbury to confirm his approval with these opinions by a note to Sir Edward Malet, in order to cause the British navy to join in a concerted blockade of the Zanzibar coast, and, like us, but operating separately, to ask the previously mentioned governments to decree respective instructions.
signed von Bismarck
FUNNY HOW THINGS ALWAYS CONNECET BACK TO THE ANTI CHRISTIAN MULSUMS AND THE TROUBLE MAKERS THE FRENCH???
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO VICTORY TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORISTA AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM AMEN
PS
Like how his mother said she was an anrakist??
THAT IS ANOTHER THING LOOK HOW THEY WERE IN SCOTLAND VILONT PROTEST UP TO THE BOMBING IN ENGLAND THEN FADED BACK INTO THEIR HOLES????
Words are hollow. I want actions. Reform Islam in the free nations where it exists (i.e. USA). Actively turn in your criminals. Actively confront terrorist cells and hand them over to the FBI. Protest in the streets when Muslims murder innocents.
Oh, and above all, quit putting your religion before country.
The perception that anyone that is not Jewish or muslim is somehow a Christian is one of the dumbest things I've heard. You cannot be born a Christian, you may be born into a Christian family, but becoming a Christian is not automatic.
We condemn, we condemn, we condemn! When I see action instead of just hot air whistling by, then I'll believe the moderate Muslin communities really mean what they say. Until then, well, we have enough hot air already, save your breath, at least until you are willing to show us actions in keeping with your hot air.
Muslims seem to be condemning this attack in much stronger terms then other attacks. Perhaps they sense that this time they've gone too far? Maybe they're seeing all these shows and panel discussions on cable news talking about the "problem" of having so many muslims in Europe.The same shows note that the US is better off for having fewer muslims.
muslims are condemning terrorist acts more strongly because they are shitting in their pants for their own safety. And well they should.
They have used all of their good will chits as far as I'm concerned.
GAME OVER...........CHECKMATE!