U.S. Suspends Travel for Soldiers In Saudi

Hello Jihadwatchers,

I have been reading the site and the forum for some time, and have been meaning to chime in...

How long until we recognize the wellspring from which the Jihadists drink? It is the oil money. Our thirst for imported oil is fueling the modern phase of Islam's expansion. Without Saudi (and other gulf states') oil profits, funding the madrassas and the overseas dawa would be impossible.

For this reason the Bush administration's "war on anything but Islam" can never succeed in its current form. We must embargo our enemy, and make it possible for the world to turn its back on them. I am reminded of the strategic position of Islam vis a vis Europe before the opening of the ocean route to the Indies. Once that economic advantage was played out, the Caliphate went into decline.

Quijybo

Our great allies, the Saudi government, everyday and everynight in their Mosques, on their TVs and in their printed media demand the absolute and unending hatred of the Infidels. It's a farce and a joke, but the joke is on us. While Abdullah and all the other taqiyyamasters, their foreheads pressed into their prayer rug, their ass sticking out into the air, pray that the American administration remain clueless, lost and confused. How does that prayer go? Let's see, "Oh great Allah and Mohammed, keep the infidels in the dark, help us to deceive the Infidels and their allies so that we may one day conquer the great infidel state of America and bring the universal ummah into being. Truly then, with the infidels destroyed, we can achieve the glorious piece. Praise Allah and his great warrior Mohammed.' Oops, gotta go! Gotta keep my prayer short today, Abdul, meeting some terrorist finance liasons at Starbucks. Need to finance a small attack to keep the Infidels scared, and drain their treasuries. Mohammed truly is a great prophet and general of conquest. Praise Allah! Praise Mohammed!

They are truly great Muslims, the Saudis, working to achieve Allah's goal. "War is deceit." said Mohammed, and the Saudis are experts at deceit.

Reset

Some of us are no longer deceived.

Quijybo:

Right. Impoverish the enemy and render him harmless. This is a formula for victory that has worked in the past. It will work again.

So, seize the oil fields and let muslims tend goats. Let them reform islam on their own - it is not our problem. Deport any muslims resident in the US and revoke US citizenship where required.

America owes islam nothing.

The Saudis have reaped what they sowed...
They thought that by training the children for 60 + years in jihad that those trained wold only kill the Infidels...

They never dreamed this Islamic DRAGON would turn on them...

Personally i dont care if they kill each other.
So i agree with keeping our soldiers out until the muslims are done wiping each other out..

American airman have for years been treated with contumely by the Saudis who regard them as they regard all Westerners, from the nurses and teachers to the distinguished cardiologist who comes to set up a catheterization clinic, and is treated as hired help in a manner that has caused him to decide never, no matter what money he may be offered, to ever have anything to do with Saudi Arabia, or Saudis, again. They are primitives with money. Some of those Saudis acquire a Western veneer, through time spent in the West. And vast sums of money can buy the right outfits, the right ways of speaking, the right gloss. But it does not change the inner attitudes, the basic hostility, that exists not within all Saudis, but almost all, frightingly almost all.

The Al-Saud believe that the Americans will always protect them. That is an assumption that must be undercut. The Saudis were in at the creation of the policy of getting rid of Saddam Hussein, and Prince Bandar knew about the plans before any other foreign government except that of Tony Blair. They have been led to believe that they have a special place in Washington. Everything must be done to undo that belief, to shake that assumption. A Congressional investigation into the sums that help support, directly or indirectly, a large number of apologists for the Saudis, for Islam, for the Arabs genereally -- where names are named, and ex-diplomats, former intelligence agents, journalists, and academics, forced to appear before Congress, to tell in detail about what Arab individuals governments, groups, or what American businesses doing business with those Arab and Muslim governments, groups, individuals, have been funding this or that magazine or "Center for Muslim-Christain Understanding" or "Center for Contemporary Islamic Studies" or.. well, make up any name you want, and chances are the place already exists, and has already received funding from rich Arabs, who know exactly what they are doing.

And here's an idea: why doesn't the American government offer the House of Al-Saud the Biggest Insurance Policy in the World. Term, rather than life. The House of Al-Saud pays each year, but there is no buildup. Each year the policy has to be renewed and the premium paid.

That's right: the American government will promise to protect and defend the princes and princelings of the House of Al-Saud, all -- what is it, now? 10,000 of them, and then of course there are those wives and children, all the kit and caboodle. Yes, these "protected people" will be guaranteed, in case of revolution or war, that the Americans will whisk them out of Saudi Arabia, out of the MIddle East, to safe houses all over the United States, the safest country for them to be in should Al Qaeda come looking for the "corrupt" and therefore "Infidel" members of the House of Al-Saud.

I have consulted with my team of geopolitical and actuarial specialists. And we think a fair price, for guaranteeing the continued physical survival, even rather comfortable physical survival, of the Al-Saud clan, which has been stealing "Saudi" Arabia blind (in addition to naming it after themselves) for the last half-century would be, oh, hold on, let me get my Hewlett-Packard Pocket Calculator, because I can't work this abacus fast enough.

Yes, here it is. Okay, sorry, it took a moment. Thank you for waiting.

Yes, we think that $150 billion a year, to be renewed on or before January 1 of each succeeding year, would be about right. This will include guaranteed flights out of Saudi Arabia to the United States or any other country of your choice, halal meals during the entire flight, comfortable first-class seats, and upon arrival a special welcome pack of goodies for every member of the Al-Saud family, and of course, air, sea, or land transportation to the Safe House which you must buy before the insurance contract can come into effect. A minimum of 5,000 such dwellings must be purchased, and a special property tax, for Saudis, of $10 million on each piece of property purchased, which should help reimburse local governments and police for continued surveillance and protection, is payable at the time the purchase-and-sale is signed. Properties available under the new REAP (Real Estate for Arabs Plan)program can be viewed on-line (special password provided) at the official U.S. Government website.

$150 billion a year is really nothing when one considers how much that oll is bringing in, and if you want to negotiate -- well, because we really really really like you, you've been so good, such close allies, we might be willing to take, oh, $145 billion a year.

But that's our final offer.

Hugh,

I agree. Turn the tables. We have been paying blackmail for so long to the Saudis. It is time to stress THEIR treasury like they have been stressing ours for so long.

Flip the Infidel/Islamic world upside down. Instead of 'what can we do for you?' it should be 'Why should we care about you? What benefits and gains do we receive?' We don't need you, you need us. Dhimmitude must end. Go running to the Chineze, see if they are as gullible as we have been. As charitable as us.

The Chineze don't put up with that BS. If their Muslims started demanded an Islamic state in West china, that would be the last demand they would ever, and I mean ever, make. China would wipe them off the land of China, problem solved. Yeah, the Chinese should be your 'super best friends', not the US.

Buck

Hi,

As I work on a rather politicised site at www.eroticwrestle.org . I was privileged to receive info about this website and it is published on our website.
Having lived for years in the Middle east, as my father was a UN peacekeeper, I must say I am terribly dissapointed by the Muslim action against my homeland England.
I am wondering if I should go against my nature and start being racist via Muslims.Terrible that a group of extremists are allowed to give a bad name to Islamists around the world! Sad...

Peter
http://www.eroticwrestle.org

For a moment I thought that the U.S. was suspending Travel for Saudis.

Damn.

Peter,

"Terrible that a group of extremists are allowed to give a bad name to Islamists around the world! Sad..."

Keep reading this site. You might find that the group of extremists are not giving a bad name to Islamists so much as revealing the traditional & fundamental bad qualities of Islam itself.

Great post Hugh, humourous. There should be a congressional investigation, long overdue, into what and who Saudi dollars buy in the West.
Agree with you havoc, and in the coming confrontation, it might come to pass that we take over the oilfields.
Have heard hair raising stories about the Saudis (a lot of local people have worked there), and remember the Samson affair ? What lowlife dissembling scum.
Protected by our dollars.
We've got to cut them loose - no rest, no sanctuary, no quarter.

Take notice, then arrive at the proper conclusion.

The "terrorists" in Saudi Arabia target ONLY Americans, never the vulnerable oil fields and pipelines (as they do in Iraq) and never the Saudi royals or the Saudi Infrastructure. The Americans and Americans only.

And then when surrounded the "inept" National Guard inevitably allows the ringleaders to escape through their "cordon", and when they claim they have captured some "terrorists" (aka Jihadis or employees of the Saudi Family) these "terrorists" are beheaded before our FBI can interrogate them.

Wanna bet that the ones beheaded were patsy's or innocent?

It is all a ruse, the Saudis are double gaming the administration, and that is possible only because the Administration is in bed (probably literally) with the Saudi Royals.For sure Bandar, (what other Ambassador has slept 14 times in the Lincoln Bedroom, when Clinton allowed contributors to sleep in the Lincoln Bedroom it was a major scandal), and what other President of the past, best George 41, and 43/44 have personal and business relationships with the Saudis and bin Laden. Why Bandar is so close to the family that Barbara nicknamed him Bandar Bush.

Peter: Islam is not a race, so one can't be racist.

Islam is not even a religion, it is an ideology of war and Arab Imperialism in the guise of a religion.

the only religious aspects of Islam are the Five Pillars.

Faith or belief in the Oneness of God and the finality of the prophethood of Muhammad;
Establishment of the daily prayers;
Concern for and almsgiving to the needy;
Self-purification through fasting; and
The pilgrimage to Makkah for those who are able.

That's it, nothing more, all the rest of the Qur'an, Sunnah, Shari'a is incitement to war and violence (Arab Imperialism) and an economic, social, political, cultural (Arabic that is) ideology in the quise of Shari'a.

Great summary Giaour. Hugh has competition for 'slicing through the ice.' I believe. Of course, 'it's an evil cult' is even shorter but 'cult' has lost all meaning or has today 1,000 meanings. I would like to use that on my website if you don't mind. It's a great summary.

The insatiable greed exhibited by Western leaders are allowing the insidious Saudi petro-wealth to buy galleries within famous western museums.

SR13m Saudi Grant to Create Islamic Gallery at UK Museum

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/005848.php

Saudi funds Islamic gallery at Louvre

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/68D36855-31D8-424C-9725-5163942DD0CE.htm

I saw that today as well. How deep is that 'stuff' we have to wade through? What exactly is islamic art anyway? Sketch-a-Board patterns? I bet a lot of that historic Islamic art is really just absorbed non-Islamic art. The Taliban took Islamic art 'sensitivity' down to the absolute gutter when they blew up the statues. That was just one more revelation day for me - that 'these people are animals, not humans.' It's amazing any has survived. Maybe they'll let the Dhimmis in once a week to take a peek or they can just polish the tiles all day.

These ideas to stick it the the desert rats in SA are all well and good. The administration is not going to do anything to piss off the Saudis anytime soon. Neither would a different president. The ONE SINGLE moment that this nation had to face the enormity of the problem of Jihad and the oil money was on September 12, 2001; it did not happen, and I blame the president. We need a leader of the character of FDR or Lincoln, but men like that only show up once in a century. Bush is far too beholden personally to the Saudis and the oil industry to ever lead this country out of the cul-de-sac we are in.

As it is though, we have who we have: Bush. His administration has just passed a massive energy bill. We need another, much bigger energy bill. The kind of sacrifices we as a people need to make to wean ourselves from the Saudi/Muslim oil-teat are severe, not the kind of thing America is willing to face. Bush, as least, does not have the vision, let alone the oratorical ability to convince anyone.

There has been a lot of talk about seizing the oil fields in Saudi Arabia. I think this is a dangerous diversion. How would we keep the oil running, surrounded by Jihadist maniacs, both individuals and nations, some with nuclear weapons? Is it not fair to our soldiers to launch such a war. Is it fair to all the thinking people in the Muslim world, to back them further into a corner, when we need them to find their courage? I think not.

It will only do to make the oil less valuable. A concerted program to replace oil imports with new technology (nuclear/renewable/hydrogen perhaps) will turn the hourglass over.

Quijybo

Now everyone will realize why we are in Iraq which
our government could not tell us for obvious reasons.

Saudia is the prime search of funding for terrorism and they NEVER calculated that we would
have "boots on the ground" next to them which has
unnerved them.

Anyway who claims that we have a connection with
the House of Saud is not watching the geopolitical
consequences of our actions.

We will pressure Saudia Arabia.

As for oil, go back to the 50's, it was our technology, money and expertise that brought oil
to the forefront. The Arabs stole it by nationalizing the oil companies, contrary to the
original agreements. And we stood by and let them!

"Leisure" in Saudi Arabia?

Who's kidding whom?

What is that exactly? A day at the public beheadings? And then a few cans of X-beer?

Either zaro troops there, or enough to make this kind of 'no-go zone' nonsense impossible.

Please explain who takes over the store after the House of Saud is forced to flee. This is a hypothetical question as we are not about to let the wackos ( Yes, I know that wacko Saudi is redundant but it is a matter of degree) take over the oilfields. Here are my choices in order:
1. Haliburton
2. Israel (very close second)
3. Us Army Corps of Engineers
Hey I'm having fun here it's Saturday night.

Make that "ZERO" troops.

Oops... was thinking about all that Saudi "leisure" and got distracted [;)]

Nobody likes the way we have been treated by the Saudis. And no administration has had the courage to dump them as an "ally" because of the possible alternatives.

The fact is, we are not that dependent on Saudi oil any more. Most of our imports come from Mexico and Canada. Our next biggest supplier is Russia. Saudi Arabia runs well behind in the pack. France gets a greater percentage of its oil from Saudi Arabia than we do. So all of this oil dependency analysis is off the mark. The economics are still important, however. By 1979-1980 the United States was running a trade surplus with Saudi Arabia. This continued many years (I haven't looked at it in a long time, so I am hesitant to give an assessment), but the REAL thinking has always been that although we are spending a lot on Saudi oil, they are spending more on US goods.

However, we have recently heard that SA is going to start calculating prices in terms of the Euro. This indicates that SA is looking more to Europe as a long term trade partner. If so, then the balance of payments attraction will diminish. One question is: was this Euro announcement a surpise, a signal, or something else.

The significance of SA's vast oil wealth poses the problem of "where does the money go." And, fortunately, lots goes to arms; palaces; whores, booze and gambling; roads, buildings and construction; imports of luxury goods; and, unfortunately, some goes to Wahabi promotion. It is this last that poses a problem for us. But an alternative regime could be much worse. And simply cutting off our purchases of Saudi Oil would do nothing. Oil is a commodity. There's is a little better than most, but, essentially, oil is oil and the Russian stuff is just fine for us. The dollar, the euro, or the yen is fine with them.

Much oil is bought and sold at sea, making the origin mostly meaningless. A tanker load may change ownership hands several times before it reaches port. And partnerships with other companies are common. It is common for example, for a Dutch company to own the ship, registered in Panama, several others to share ownership of the cargo, with ownership financed with a letter of credit drawn on a French Bank and the cargo insured through a US insurer, and all disputes to be settled by suit in British courts.

I once saw a court case in London in which Texas law was being applied, because of an injury a merchant seaman had sustained. The question was whether attorney's fees were recoverable in Texas. The Honorable Queen's Counsel didn't know, and I had to bite my tongue because I was only a spectator.
Once landed, ownership of the oil may even change in the pipeline. Every energy company with a pipeline or two trades crude or product all the time. Sometimes there are three and four party trades that effectively move product from one part of the country to another without even moving in a pipeline. One company simply trades product at one place for something at another place. If there is a shortfall, then the pipeline product is routed where it is needed. All of these same transportation and ownership combo's happen with rail cars, too. Gasoline is a little different in the USA. Because of environmental regulations, gasoline is formulated differently for different parts of the country. This makes it more difficult to trade, because a surplus in one area may not be usable in another area, causing a shortage in the second area. Again, gov't involvement making the market inefficient.

I often wonder who owns the oil in the pipeline when one is blown up in Iraq. We see the fires on the evening news, and some reporter says it is an Iraqi pipeline. But that doesn't mean that Iraq owns the oil. It could be Shell, or Exxon or BP or China or Pierre the Frenchman. And the ownership today does not have any implication for who will be owning the oil in that same pipeline at that same location next week or next month.

Makes me wonder if any particular company is being targeted by the bombers, and, if so, does that help to catch them. Lots of things happen right before our eyes, and they are RARELY what they seem to be.

The Saudi economy is NOT transparent. Where does the money go?

Well, first the royal family gets its cut - right off the top. Rather than a country, a more accurate way to describe Saudi Arabia is "the world's largest family owned corporation". A large portion goes to government spending. The large, rather inefficient civil bureaucracy and the armed forces primarily serve as an employment program. The comparatively large national guard also serves as a counter to the Saudi Army. Defense and National Guard are under different princes.

Public infrastucture needs much more funding. Highways are not in very good shape. Part of the problem is that the Saudis try to do as much as possible as cheaply as possible. So things like highways need to be redone sooner. Most urban dwellers (70% or so in Jeddah, for example) do not have access to public sanitation or running water. Potable water is trucked in in tankers and sewage is trucked out. Jeddah is 5 to 10 years from literally drowning in its own sewage. Everyone acknowledges the problem, but the attitude seems to be, "If I wait long enough, the problem will go away, or someone else will take care of it."

Health care will take up an increasingly larger portion. Birth defects and genetically linked diseases are past a publically announced 30% of live births. It is no coincidence that half the marriages (again, publically announced statistics) in the Kingdom are between close relatives. Even Western educated parents will announce the engagement of their son to his cousin.

Except for the current spike in oil prices recently, the Saudi GNP, adjusted for inflation, has stayed relatively constant over the years. (OK. For you economists out there, I admit that I am somewhat simplifying things.) Since the Saudi population has at least tripled in the last 40 years, that means that per capita income has effectively dropped by about 70%.

I'm just an old retired Army sergeant, but the above observations are based on what I have seen and read over the past seven years over here.

jay

Oh, about pegging the Saudi riyal to the Euro instead of the dollar:

My economically uneducated opinion is that the Euro is presently overvalued. I think that the economic problems starting to manifest themselves in the EU have not yet affected the value of the Euro. When the Euro does drop against the dollar, talk of tying the Saudi currency to the Euro will end.

jay

I'm new to posting, but have been reading on this site for some time.

Hugh
You have a good calculator (aside from being a fountain of information in your many posts, which are greatly appreciated). At $50 per barrel (roughly the OPEC market basket average so far in 2005) Saudi oil exports should generate about $150 billion in revenues.

Jay
Great insight on Saudi per capita GDP. What's interesting is that in spite of high un- and under-employment, the Saudis continue to import workers from Pakistan, the Phillippines, etc. Evidently manual labor is beneath them (unless it involves putting together bombs).

Consultants and investors writing in the Middle East Economic Survey and elsewhere seem to agree that the Saudis need a price in the high $20s to balance their budget. Now that they've agreed to expand capacity to 12 million daily barrels from the current 10.5, they'll need more. Look at recent financial reports from oil service companies such as Schlumberger and Nabors, which do substantial business there. Saudi business is booming! I see this (based on no inside information whatsoever) as their quo against our quid of not doing anything serious to cut our dependence on oil.

Nuclear, hydrogen, whatever, these are all long term solutions. The real crime is that we all went back to sleep after getting 2 wake-up calls in the '70s. Hybrid cars, anybody?