Why it's time for Dutch justice to get tough

So, what is Islamic 'extremism', exactly?

"This [a life sentence for Mohammed Bouyeri] appears to be the only logical sentence."
-- from a posting above

No, it doesn't. The correct sentence for what Bouyeri did is death, but there is no death sentence in Holland. This should be changed, and changed all over the Western world, as a sentence specifically meted out for those guilty of terrorist acts. There is no reason to spend a fortune keeping such people alive in prison, where they will simply conduct Da'wa, whenever they can, impressing their fellow prisoners with their stoicism, and firm belief -- and some of those prisoners may convert to Islam, get out of prison, and then do what comes naturally to so many Muslims.

Change the laws to fit the grim case.

This bastard is the heroic example for millions of mohammedans. The death penalty would take him directly to the big brothel in the sky, he believes he is qualified to receive.Something a little more imaginative would have to be devised.

Suggestions?

Sebastian,

A sex-change operation. Then slowly behead him.

If he has to go to jail, I would like to propose Lyndie England(Currently unemployed), as personally responsable for his welfare.

they should be sensitive to his religion,

treat him as a muslim, it's only right,

behead him in public

Islam does not contain the Golden Rule. The canonical texts of Islam teach Muslims to do unto others(i.e., Infidels) very bad things, and it doesn't matter what those Infidels have done, are doing, or will do to the Muslims.

It behooves Infidels, then, to create a Special Golden Rule(Islamic edition) by Infidels, to cover only the case of dealing with Muslims. Do unto those Muslim Believers as you can be absolutely sure that, given half a chance, those Muslim Believers have done, are doing, and would do, unto you.

Doesn't that make sense?

One could set up martyrdom centers where Muslims could come to fight 'infidels,' die, and go to heaven...

Oh wait, we already set those up -- they're called 'Islamic communities' and they're peppered all over Western lands...

The movie-short "Submission" will be shown
in Toronto canada on August 12th,the link below gives the details for ordering tickets and the guest speaker for the Q&A session afterwards is the female muslim from the Netherlands that was threatened by Muslims for her part in the movie
where Quranic verses and printed on her bare back.

A Ferry from Rochester N.Y. to Toronto harbour
is now back in service and cuts the travel time from 5 hours to just a 2 hour trip across Lake Ontario for about 35 dollars as a walk on passenger or a vehicle charge plus each person in the car.
If you plan to attend the showing of the film
because you are near the Candian border or Rochester NY , the Hall is at Bloor and St.George
that is right on the Subway line and the ferry
docks just a short walk from Union station that also has a Subway Station in it that loops up to StGeorge so you wouldn't need the car if coming by Ferry for the Night.
Customs agents are posted on both sides so quick clearing will be assured if the right ID is shown,plus a return on the ferry will be easy with the proof from coming over to Toronto.

You may never see this film or guest in America
because of the Islamic threats to her from Whahabbi base mosques in America.

Come see exactly what drove a passive god-lovong Muslims to murder a Artist from a failed
beheading in public.
Keep in mind that Islam had nothing to do with it.

Killer Bouyeri should be given a shot of adrenaline, a heavily padded coat, a pair of running shoes, and secretly transported to a London Tube station and set loose near a group of special police. (The Dutch could claim it was an "ingenious escape".)

The Brits' new "shoot-to-kill" policy would save us having to feed, house, clothe, entertain, medically treat and tolerate this maniac for 60 or more years of absolutely wasted tax dollars.

Let's be as cunning as our enemies.

Before their wished-for "American Hiroshima" hits.

To all that wish death on Bouyeri: NO!

NONO! NONONO! NO!

This bastards *wants* to die. He thinks he's fulfilled his part of the deal and is waiting to cash in. We should not ever give in to that wish of his. And that is discounting the fact that a death warrant would mean instant martyrdom in the idea of his fellow cretins.

Let him live out his days rotting away in a maximum security prison, pondering his sorry existence and the fact he wasn't even capable of becoming a decent shaheed, let alone a decent human being.

That's what we Dutch pay taxes for. And even *if* it's a hundred, a thousand times more expensive then the procedure leading up an injection with 9mm piece of lead, Bouyeri doesn't deserve to die. He deserves much, much worse then becoming a proper shaheed.

EJ,

Bouyeri doesn't care if he dies, he thinks that Allah will decide that for him - Kismet, remember.

The point being if he's left in jail, he is still serving the cause of islam by costing us. It's a form of economic jihad he will be waging against us and while he's inside as Hugh points out he can further islam through Dawa.

He could of course become another Anwar Sheikh, but we firstly don't need anymore (moderate muslims will just say he was initially confused about islam and now due to guilt he is turning against it, still confused) there have been enough Anwar Sheikhs for us not to have an excuse for our ignorance.

Secoundly, what are the chances of him actually doing so. The whole point about prison is not just punishment but reform. The jailers don't understand islam so they won't know how to deprogram him.

In short Bouyeri is a waste of space, breath, resources and just about everything else we waste on him including a 9mm round. Just lock him up and leave him.

JV

"This bastard *wants* to die."

Actually, if Mohammed B. really had wanted to die, he would not have run away from the policeman chasing him. He would have incited the policeman to shoot him by pointing his gun at him.

They need solitary confinement in these cases. For the entire sentence, even if it's life. This vermin needs to be kept away from others for he will only poison the minds of other criminals. Islam seems to spread like wildfire in prisons, amongst the scum in there. How appropriate, that such a hateful, violent ideology finds such fertile ground in jails. Afterall, what was their "Prophet", other than a thief and mass-murderer? Criminal ideology for criminals.

Suggested punishment for Bouyeri:

1. Lock him up until he dies of old age. For the rest of his pathetic life he will have to take orders from filthy, contemptible infidels; and

2. When he dies, do what "Black Jack" Pershing,
the then Commander of U.S. Army forces in the Phillipines prior to WW1, reportedly did to members of the Moros' (an Islamic insurgency movement) - bury the body wrapped in freshly slaughtered pig skins.

Supposedly there wasn't another Islamic terrorist incident in the Phillipines for forty-two years.

If this doesn't deter others from following in the all too familiar path trodden by Bouyeri and his ilk, nothing will.

Hi,

I'm Dutch, living in London, and as you will understand following islamic jihad with full attention.
In India they deal a lot with islamic extremists and terrorists, especially in Kashmir. They have a simple policy: to kill every terrorist they catch. Why? Because too often the Indians experienced that planes were hijacked to have imprisoned terrorists freed.
This will never happen in the Netherlands, of course. We praise ourselves for our liberal and human views on life. Nobel, and it has worked quite well for some decades. I hope it's not going to be our downfall.

Italy was the first country to abolish the death penalty in peacetime, in 1879. It was restored by the Fascist scum in 1923 and abolished again by the provisional government in 1944 (though Mussolini was condemned to death in absentia under the military code's provisions for high treason). Since then, only the Fascists have ever asked for its restoration.

We know a thing or two about murderers and organized crime, in Italy. We have suffered from Mafia, communist and fascist terrorism, and a whole lot of Palestinian/Islamic violence, for decades. The point is that a principle (such as that State killing is wrong) is only worth anything if it applies in difficult as well as in easy conditions. Sure, it would be convenient to just kill off the bastards as we get them; but only in bloodshot murderous eyes would it be right. And Hugh, since you seem fond of Italian culture, I suggest you read Cesare Beccaria - whom I for one regard as the greatest glory in our long and proud history.

"only in bloodshot murderous eyes would it [sentencing someone like Bouyeri to death] be right."
-- from a posting above

I've never read Beccaria. Wasn't he Manzoni's father-in-law? Curious that another dispenser of views on crime and punishment, far less celebrated, Chief Justice Lemuel Shaw of the Supreme Judicial Court in Massachusetts, was the father-in-law of an American writer as famous cisatlantically as Manzoni has been transatlantically, Melville.

But I doubt if reading Beccaria would change my mind. To wit: I support capital punishment on principle, for certain kinds of crimes, and Bouyeri fits within even the narrowest acceptable limits for its application. As for my capital-punishment-supporting eyes, they are neither bloodshot nor murderous, at least they weren't the last time I looked.

All the same, read Beccaria. If I tell you that I regard him as the height of the glory of Italy - and I of all people am not unlikely to underrate the achievements of my people - you might take notice. Manzoni was not only his nephew, he was deeply influenced by him, and his magnificent historical essay Storia della Colonna Infame is largely a critical but admiring response to his uncle's Dei Delitti e Delle Pene. Which is incomparably the most influential treatise on criminal justice ever written, and was certainly known to the Founding Fathers as much as to every other educated Westerner in their age.

I've always been against the death penalty.

But in the case of terrorism, maybe it's a good thing.

If planes are being hijacked to free terrorists, or if terrorists convert even their jailers to Islam, then maybe they should have to be taken out.